Extra hours paid or not?

[rstratton]

its like any other salary job, if you have to work over time then you have to do it and you don't get paid any more then that set salary (minus royalities and things like that), but you have to also think that if its slow and you are not needed 40 hours a week you still get paid for that, so it goes either way....and I don't know of anyone who likes to work for free...

[leigh]

its like any other salary job, if you have to work over time then you have to do it and you don't get paid any more then that set salary

Errrmm I work on a salary (I am on permament staff) and I get time-and-a-half for all hours over 8 hours per day, and double if I have to work Sundays. I've never had to work a Sunday though, thankfully :p And luckily I hardly ever have to do overtime anyway (this last weekend I worked a Saturday for the first time in about five months, so I can't complain).

I have worked at studios in the past that did not pay overtime though.

[Joel Hooks]

If you don't like it leave. This is assuming nobody is forcing work at gunpoint and you aren't wearing shackles. If that is the case, give a location and we'll send help.

[Alice]

Is there no difference in policies between companies in us and canada?

[EricLyman]

I'd also be interested in hearing from more people who work salaried positions in studios and get paid OT. Not sure why 3D seems to be the exception, since most people consider it a white collar job.

[agreenster]

Im FT/Salary and we got Comp time at the end of our project instead of overtime. I dug it. Its like, here--free vacation!

[polywrangler]

I'd also be interested in hearing from more people who work salaried positions in studios and get paid OT. Not sure why 3D seems to be the exception, since most people consider it a white collar job.Its amazing what employers can get away with when supply exceeds demand. Also note that if you are a contract worker through a 3rd party staffing firm you are not eligible for overtime benefits that fulltime staff is, not eligible for health benefits, making only 50% or less than employer pays staffing firm, and at a disadvantage from getting hired full time since the employer will have to payoff the staffing agency to bring you on. Staffing firm=bad.

[leigh]

not eligible for health benefits

Most freelance positions (staffing firms or not) do not get health benefits. But I do agree that staffing firms are not a good idea.

[HellBoy]

where I work, you menstion overtime pay, then better be prepared for a swing on your rear man

[Strob]

If you don't like it leave. This is assuming nobody is forcing work at gunpoint and you aren't wearing shackles. If that is the case, give a location and we'll send help.

That's exactly what the employers who do that defend themselves!

In fact I'm not really complaining. I work for a big video game company (that I will not mention) and we "kind of" get paid vacation when we do a lot of extra hours (it is never garanteed though) and we also get a bonus if the game sells. And we have a lot of time to do R&D between projects. So until now I'm very happy.

A few years ago we had time and a half for extra hours but no bonus. (For sure the bonus is smaller than than the extra hours pay and it is not garateed.)

I wanted to know how it is in the other companies small or big.

I think that when a employer make millions of profits, he should pay the extra hours. The fact that we like our job should not be a reason to work for free. In fact when I calculate everything I don't loose so much, but it is more on the moral side of thing that it is annoying. I mean when I think about the fact that I'm working during the night, I'm tired, my eyes are dry, my wrist hurt, my girlfriend is waiting for me at home and I'm not paid... It piss me off. If I'm paid I can endure a lot more!!!

Well I think I'm waiting for someone to tell me it's like that everywhere and I should not complain about that! But for sure if one day I make millions in profit I will pay every single extra hour for all my employees and if required I will just buy a Mazda instead of a Porshe!!! Hahaha!!!

[Wintermute]

where I work, I get paid for 40 hours/week. no paid overtime.
But I have saturdays and sundays off and full benefits (medical, dental, 401k).
at the same time I get 5 days paid leave every 6 months (that includes sick time!)
My boss is cool enough to give me additional days paid (comp time) if I put in a lot of overtime-which is common this time of year.

[Joel Hooks]

I think that when a employer make millions of profits, he should pay the extra hours. The fact that we like our job should not be a reason to work for free.

Technically you are not working for free and the company is just maximizing your value. This is in turn diminishing your return on your time and essentially reducing your hourly rate. You are of course free to leave the job outside of a contractual obligation, but then contracts work both ways so you should make sure to protect yourself. The employers profits in relationship to your personal feelings is completely irrelevent, except where a smart employer wants to keep his best and brightest, because the fact of the matter is you have to make sure the talent is happy, even excited, to come to work. Otherwise everybody loses.

Every workplace is different, every boss is different. Humans make decisions based on what they think will benifit themselves the most at the time. Sometimes employers will see overworking and underpaying their talent as the best course of action. It is up to the talent to decide if the reward is worth the effort and whether to accept it or move on.

also, staffing firms kickass if you are hungry and can't find another job.

[Brettzies]

I think it's actually illegal in California to NOT pay OT. The law is written in such a way that anything after 8 hours per day is considered OT. However, some people are considered Exempt from OT pay. Usually managers or "salaried" employees. That's where the situation can get sticky, that whole salaried employee thing because to calculate OT, you have to be on an hourly basis. Not only that, but for "salaried" people, you are expected to get the job done in a reasonable amount of time which could mean long hours, but not OT on a regular basis. I'm not exactly sure as to the legal terminology or who qualifies.

A lot of places will pay you OT up front, or write your contract for a 45 or 50 hour week to include it. Makes it look like they are paying you more(and sometimes they are), but usually they are just covering themselves legally and getting more hours out of you. The formula for a normal week is simple:

(RegHourlyRate * 40) + (RegHourlyRate * 1.5 * OT hours) = yourWeeklyPay

Whether they make you work those 5 or 10 extra hours is up to them. Or, they may only pay OT if you actually work it. The bigger the place, the more money they make, the more likely they are to be auditted, which means accounting for every hour of work and pay. They are the companies most likely to pay OT correctly.

Like someone said, it's a supply and demand industry. The demand to be in it is so great, people are willing to let themselves be taken advantage of early or even late in their careers. Or, a smaller studio may not really be able to afford to pay people OT and are kind of working on "good faith" that their employees won't blow the whistle on them if they are working long hours. It's a give and take relationship. The employee gets some experience, the employer gets some free work. Or the employee has some faith that the company is going somewhere or they will see benefits down the road. There are lots of reason people may work for "free." Not all of them good however.

I guess the real problem occurs when you are working OT for free because you are afraid of losing your job. Or, you are doing so much free OT that if you calculated your hourly rate it would be in the negative.

[EricLyman]

heh, that was an excellent post Brettzies, with the exception of the last line:

Or, you are doing so much free OT that if you calculated your hourly rate it would be in the negative.

which is impossible under normal circumstances. However it did happen to me once when I was working at an Indian restaurant. I was a waiter there. Great food. Every now and again we'd get a table of freeloaders who would come in 10 minutes before we close, order about $100 worth of food, stay for an hour or so and then leave less than a dollar as a tip. My co-worker at the time pointed out that the amount of tax we pay on our income is determined by the sales we generate for the restaurant and not the actual tips we recieved. Therfore, if a table of freeloaders don't meet a certain percentage of the bill with their tip, then YOU"RE actually paying THEM for your services! Just a little factoid that made working in the food service industry just that much more unbearable :)

[Joel Hooks]

Creative positions are exempt from California's OT laws. I assume this is to protect the motion picture industry.

[Slurry]

If you don't like it leave. This is assuming nobody is forcing work at gunpoint and you aren't wearing shackles. If that is the case, give a location and we'll send help.


It's not that easy. Finding another job where the employer doesn't take advantage of it's employees in the same way is not necessarily an easy thing to do. It's not like you can quit, walk across the street and get another job the same afternoon.
When you have financial repsonsibilities, perhaps even a family, it complicated matter further.
Quiting doesn't solve the problem. Changing how employers treat their workers does.
Jobs are hard to come by. This is a very competitive industry.


Technically you are not working for free and the company is just maximizing your value. This is in turn diminishing your return on your time and essentially reducing your hourly rate.

So if you slack off at work and do the minimum amount of work, does that mean you are just maximizing your own value? An employer shouldn't have issue with that right?

:shrug:

Art

[Brettzies]

Creative positions are exempt from California's OT laws. I assume this is to protect the motion picture industry.
Probably so, but most production artists(at least in film) are categorized more like hourly wage workers. Mainly because of all the long hours that take place in filmmaking. You can't make people work 50 hours / week year round and not have a way to compensate them. Not only that, but clients want to know why things cost a certain amount, which comes down to hourly billing and bidding. Which all goes back to accountablity for work and hours, cost and profit, etc. Tracking. Movie business is all about tracking the dollars.

I don't know how works from a game company standpoint. I'm guessing it's a bit different due to the culture of the game industry developing or at least exploding over the past 10 years. The whole, "get it done no matter the consequenes" mentality, one month of all nighters at the end of projects with no OT, etc. Where as film vfx gets its roots from years of making movies the old fashioned way.....blowing sh!t up.

[Joel Hooks]

It's not that easy. Finding another job where the employer doesn't take advantage of it's employees in the same way is not necessarily an easy thing to do. It's not like you can quit, walk across the street and get another job the same afternoon.
When you have financial repsonsibilities, perhaps even a family, it complicated matter further.
Quiting doesn't solve the problem. Changing how employers treat their workers does.
Jobs are hard to come by. This is a very competitive industry.

If the time is providing you and your family shelter and food, then obviously it is worth it to stick around. If it diminishes your happiness and is no longer worth the effort, then you leave. This might make you feel sad and angry, but again, your feelings are irrelevant. Your responsibilities are not your employers responsibilities. If you can't find a job in a particular industry (which industry is not relevent), then you are free to choose a different career path. Difficult? Maybe. Sometimes people make bad decisions that cause them to suffer. Life is rough.


So if you slack off at work and do the minimum amount of work, does that mean you are just maximizing your own value? An employer shouldn't have issue with that right?

:shrug:

Art

It could mean you are maximizing your own value, until you are released from your employment obligation. Why wouldn't they have an issue with that? It is the same concept as the percieved overworking of employees. As an employer, if you have an employee using work slow-down tactics you can release them. The services they DO provide might be worth the cost, despite the slacking.

[Joel Hooks]

You can't make people work 50 hours / week year round and not have a way to compensate them.

I agree. The abolishment of slavery was a step in the right direction. I'd hope the world of digital content creation is free of slavery.

[Schwinnz]

I agree. The abolishment of slavery was a step in the right direction. I'd hope the world of digital content creation is free of slavery.

It's free of slavery but not of exploitation. They know very well that a lot deserve more, but they are more occupied to please shareholders rather than the ones that get them money in the first place...

[Slurry]

When you accept a job, you agree to perform certain duties, usually for around 40 hours per week in North America.

In return, the company agrees to pay you a specific sum of money, generally referred to as a salary.

Any extra work beyond that should be considerd beyond the original aggreement of employment and subject to compensation, be it time in lieu or overtime wages.

Of course, there is room for interpretation of how many hours past 40 should be counted before compensation sets in. Labour laws vary from region to region.

Workers should not be expected to do more work for the same amount of pay without additional compensation. Employers tend to exploit their workers within the context of the law, and some times outside of it.

Workers should be prepared to fight for their rights and not quit or walk away. Nothing will ever change if that's our attitude.

[Joel Hooks]

Everybody deserves more, life isn't fair, and if you are being "exploited" it is your decision to remain in the situation. Obviously there is some gain or this "exploited" individual wouldn't bother to roll out of bed in the morning.

Shareholders and entrepenuers are taking all of the risk. The employee is recieving a wage for their time and is not required to take any risk. The motivation for investment is heightened gains. Remove these gains and there is nobody to invest or take the risk in starting a company and less jobs for workers overall. The worker who sees this often cries "foul" and believes they deserve a bigger share of the profits despite their lack of personal risk/investment.

[Joel Hooks]

Workers should be prepared to fight for their rights and not quit or walk away. Nothing will ever change if that's our attitude.

You don't have a right to work and an employer doesn't have any obligation to employ you. The relationship is based on you negotiating a rate for your labour and the employer paying you within that negotiated boundary. If the employer attempts to create extra value for the company by requiring additional hours beyond what you, as an employee, deem as fair/reasonable you can attempt to renegotiate the terms of employment, take it, or leave.

Workers should not be expected to do more work for the same amount of pay without additional compensation.

It sounds like workers should stop blaming other people for their poor choice in employer and take a little responsibility upon themselves. I don't have any misconceptions about humans and do not expect this to actually happen on any sort of large scale.

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