Autodesk Alias

[Gremlin]

So...3dsmax and Maya are now owned by the same company?
that's a bit on the ridiculous side.

[Steve McRae]

FAQ from Autodesk - http://images.autodesk.com/adsk/files/Autodesk_Alias_External_FAQ.pdf

[SoloG]

uh oh. next thing you know, you will be coming across Autodesk Maya 7.5

[Steve McRae]

I can't see most Maya users being too keen on this one.

[coop]

i'm not happy.

[Matadŏr]

i DON´T want to believe!

I´ve been using Maya since version 1.0, worked with Power Animator for some time... and now what? Autodesk??? And i thinking that Apple could be the monster eater to be afraid of...

Sad sad news, for me at least.

:sad:

[Matadŏr]

I cant see Autodesk knowing or even understanding the needs of the Maya community.
For years i eared Max users saying that Maya was too "abstract" that it needed more "plugins"... geez...
All this time developing a user interface and workflow that worked well, at least for me, is going to be wasted for sure.

[kevinseven]

Wow! Suprise, panic and dread.

And I just got my support renewal bill today. I'm too chicken to write that $1500 check without some idea as to what the new Autodesk world will entail over the next 12 months. Unified product line? Different support structure and costs? Are we all about to recieve a letter from Autodesk offering us a discounted deal to upgrade/sidegrade to Max? Yuck!

[floze]

I remember when Kinetix turned into discreet.. and then discreet into autodesk again... I was a 3dsmax user at that time, and it wasnt much of a change regarding the product or support - at least for me, and regardless if no change is a good or bad thing.

I'm sure they wont let years of r&d and customer relations just be like blowing in the wind... the times they are a changing. Bob Dylan was right! Stay cool! ;)

[SPIDER2544]

i dont think its such a bad thing, yea we will eventualy have to learn a new program but what elese is new we always have to addapt to new programs and methods of working.

the upside is we will probibly get a new app that will help to create a standard format for the industry instead of comstantly having to switch formats between programs to find workarounds for certain issues.

not to mention this also gives the company a good chance to build a more user freindly interface, lets face it the 3d industrys interfaces are some of the most convoluted things on the planet that are impossible to figgure out with out HUGE amounts of research documenttaion and training

[crick2x9]

Integration between the two appplications is very likely, but not right away. This sux! just when i recently fell in love with Maya!! :cry:

One thing is certain: monopolies are not good. Even if "3ds studio maya" comes out 4 to five years down the road, it will still throw people off when it comes to getting jobs:

"yes i understand you have used maya for 5 years, but we use -Autodesk's Xaya-. Didn't you read the job description??"

[SoloG]

im really not happy about this, i just started using maya and im in love with it and eventually it will be something else. ahh!

[mayaxmayax]

I am dead man ... some one tell me this is not true ...
Bad .. Bad ... Bad :sad: :sad:
i cannot believe ...
bye bye Maya ...
Now maya like Max .... plugins .... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins ...
with out plugins you can not work .... and ..... Autodesk MotionBuilder 7.5 ....I am dead man ...

[Athey]

Autodesk says that they're still gonna make be making maya. Their FAQs and such all state they don't intend to just up and combine the two or get rid of one. If anything, it sounded like they were intending to make maya more focused towards the movie industry, while making max more focused towards the gaming industry.

They're keeping motion builder and fbx and whatever else. I think that in the end what it really means is that importing and exporting between all the different programs will be a lot easier and function better.

The Autodesk Maya 7.5 is a reality though - Autodesk said that products would be released under their name for all future releases.

[annaleah]

I wish CGTalk had a pukeing emoticon........lol









***as the XSI flash advertisment blinks at me....****

[SirPhilip]

This makes a lot of sense, but I can't get this very, very bad taste out of my mouth, nor wrap my head around the idea that Max and Maya are now going to fuse together into some frankensteinian nightmare. What about heritage? On the up side, Maya users might finally get single-selection functionality and proper polygonal beveling, and Max users, basically a better thought out version of everything else. :rolleyes:

[mindful108]

I wish CGTalk had a pukeing emoticon........lol


Close enough?

:wavey: Maya

:banghead: MAX



...

[holyzombiejesus]

Ahhhhh expletive deleted, this is probably gonna suck. Yeah they say they're gonna keep on making 'Maya' is some shape or form, but thats how it always starts. But then there's running. And screaming....

[slipknot66]

Downloading XSI demo.............

Geez.. i came from Max to Maya, now going from maya to max? NO!..lol

[SheepFactory]

i'm not happy.


well xsi 5.0 demo is out coop ;)

[soccerrprp]

i dont think its such a bad thing, yea we will eventualy have to learn a new program but what elese is new we always have to addapt to new programs and methods of working.

the upside is we will probibly get a new app that will help to create a standard format for the industry instead of comstantly having to switch formats between programs to find workarounds for certain issues.

not to mention this also gives the company a good chance to build a more user freindly interface, lets face it the 3d industrys interfaces are some of the most convoluted things on the planet that are impossible to figgure out with out HUGE amounts of research documenttaion and training

I am very uncertain that having "a standard format [or app]" is such a good idea. For this to occur would certainly mean diminished or the absence of competition and eventually, lack of efficient innovation. There is now only one other BIG competitor-SoftImage XSI. Only one.... there those such as C4D that has proven its value and popularity, but C4D is still and has been playing catch-up in many ways. Now with the acquisition of Alias by Autodesk, the field of innovation has been reduced! Imagine.....Autodesk buying out some of the other new, but smaller apps...then XSI because it can't compete....then C4D....a possibility that I do not like to imagine.

The flip side is that the other apps, such as Maxon's C4D and SoftImage, take heed and innovate, compete and continue to make the 3D community diverse and innovative.

Just my thoughts. CRUD. Just as I was getting excited about diving into Maya....

[zcmaya3d]

donnot wanna believe this ....
just got up and seen such a news.
why??? autodesk maya ? what's is that ?????
or 3ds maya ? what !!!
how can i believe?

[efxdoc]

Wonder if and when Houdini and/or XSI will have a Mac OSX version...Not that I'm jumping ship just yet...

[gaianix]

:eek:
ssso whats going on in futurEEEE .........



mixed maYA and max = mAXYA

[cgtriguy]

This is likely very bad news for the Mac community. Unless the intel thing works out the work Steve dais it would.

[Cman]

I was just starting to learn Maya, and really like it, partly because I didn't like MAX!!

Did I just wake up and it's April 1st?

[stantang]

Downloading XSI demo.............

Geez.. i came from Max to Maya, now going from maya to max? NO!..lol

Haha, I actually think XSI is the loser of this deal. It won't surpised me to see Avid buy Lightwave or C4D in order to complete with Autodesk!

[Ionex]

Imo I think Softimage is probably one of the reasons this merger is happening. XSI has made leaps and bounds forward ever since v1.0. Look at v.5 right now with revolutionary technology such as GATOR & the gigapolygon core along with some of the best animation tools available in any 3D package. Softimage has completely focused all there efforts into XSI and left the old architecture (SI3D) behind building a new more modern engine and UI. This giving Softimage plenty of room to move forward for the future and making new innovations in its technology.



As a Maya user and an old Max user I want to thank Alias for helping me make a decision I have been debating about for weeks now. I will be calling my Softimage reseller first thing tomorrow.

[may99]

well must say... at first tihs one was bigggggg shock to me being user of both apps maya and max for more than 5 years but the more i think about it its great news... i love MAYA... but imagine the new posibilities... not to mention 3D is constantly changing business ... apps or workfolws are comming and going from day to day.... also for example there is only one Photoshop and nobody compains (i know there are also other apps but...)...

so hurrey!! for me its exciting ...

[RiKToR]

Well either this has the potential to either be a) an excellent opportunity to enhance both Maya and Max with the best features from either program b) turn into serious disaster.

I learned on Max and went to school for maya, lets just say I am not eager to re learn a prog I just spent $45k to learn. The only plus is that the industry will have to learn with me. I guess I'll just wait and see (better brush up on my max).

[nemirc]

Downloading XSI demo.............

Geez.. i came from Max to Maya, now going from maya to max? NO!..lol

I was thinking the exact same thing... What was the download size of that XSI demo? :beer:



Personally I don't see any reason why I should feel happy about this. Take a look at what they wrote in the FAQ:

Alias’ customers will benefit from: the $300 million that Autodesk spends in R&D, a single streamlined workflow, internationalized solutions and best-of-class distribution.


So you are telling me that they spendd 300 millions in R&D and yet they can't make a 3D app that can do decent work without the help of tons of plugins? MAX is a good modeler but that's pretty much it, you still have to get the plugin for fire, water, particle simulations, cloth simulation, hair simulation, shatter generators, tree generators... yesh! the only plugin I ever used in Maya is something known as "syflex" ;)

:banghead:
:banghead:
:banghead:


Cman: I was wondering that myself and I even LOOKED FOR THAT DATE somewhere in the page :cry_

[williamsburroughs]

Autodesk didn't buy Alias for Maya...they bought Alias for Studio Tools. ST is used to make cars, boats, televisions, mp3 players, phones and industry leading commodities... Maya is a blip on the radar when you consider what Studio Tools represents to the market. Our Industrial Designers at frog use it & Pro-E to create all the wonderful things they create that we all buy at some point in our lives.

Peace,
-policarpo

[motoxpress]

:scream: not good!

ugh...Time to check out XSI more carefully...


-gl

[thorn3d]

Haha, I actually think XSI is the loser of this deal. It won't surpised me to see Avid buy Lightwave or C4D in order to complete with Autodesk!

What in-house technologies do C4D or Lightwave have to offer XSI users, which Soft couldn't implement on their own if they chose to?

thorn

[nemirc]

Autodesk didn't buy Alias for Maya...they bought Alias for Studio Tools. ST is used to make cars, boats, televisions, mp3 players, phones and industry leading commodities... Maya is a blip on the radar when you consider what Studio Tools represents to the market. Our Industrial Designers at frog use it & Pro-E to create all the wonderful things they create that we all buy at some point in our lives.

Peace,
-policarpo

But even so they STILL own Maya. Now if MAX remains pretty much unchanged since version 5 (save for some new modeling stuff and that reactor thing) what will happen to Maya? The last thing we need is a Maya 10 that is exactly like version 7 save for that new checkbox in the smooth proxy command that lets you create "NURMS".


thorn3d: none that I know of.

[sacslacker]

Hehe, yes... panic and abandon your app. That will for sure make things better.

How about some positive thinking for a change? I'm definitely no stranger to negativitey but come on. Maybe, just maybe this will mean great things for Maya users. I still love Maya and if Autodesk doesn't "F" it up, I still will.

I really hope they keep Duncan and the rest of the Maya gurus happy though. I wonder what the people at Sony Pictures Imageworks feel after just kicking down for 150 seats of Unlimited (http://www.alias.com/glb/eng/press/press_release_details.jsp?itemId=1600002). I can't help but think that they might have had some idea of what was in store and if so, they weren't too worried about it. Or (more likely) I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Maybe I should just be negative.

[nemirc]

The good thing is that the Autodesk guys aren't idiots... or at least I think so. So I would hope that Maya would take advantage of any MAX feature (at least we would have a better modeler), but certainly I have no reason to think that a 3dstudio MAXya would be the closest thing to heaven specially if MAX itself hasn't gone through some serious evolution in the last 10 years or so.

However all we can do is wait... as they say: time will tell.


I just went to the MAX forum and it's amusing to read the comments over there. They all seem to be very happy about this while I only see one happy poster in the Maya forum :rolleyes:

[motoxpress]

Well, slack you have a point.

Personally, this is the very reason I don't like to tie myself to one app any more than I have to though. Especially when there are several good options out there (Photoshop being the exception).

I will still enjoy Maya for a good long while but, it's the next few years ahead that makes me wonder.


-gl

[Ødb]

don't say to anybody... Microsoft is going to buy autodesk tomorrow........

[housewarmer]

Ah, heck. I feel like the day Micrsoft bought Bungie. Although that didn't turn out half bad afterall (other than having to pick up an xbox which was pretty cool anyway). Here's hoping autodesk doesn't try to cowboy up and "fix" things that aren't problems within alias software development just to prove it's their new daddy.

[nemirc]

...Here's hoping autodesk doesn't try to cowboy up and "fix" things that aren't problems within alias software development just to prove it's their new daddy.

Like replacing the motionbuilder system with that amazing character studio that can't even use the graph editor? :bounce:


I know, I am just being an ass :rolleyes:
*goes to hide in a corner*

[sanimator]

this came as the most disappointing news for me. Alias MAYA had its own status which will be totally lost now.

[SirPhilip]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/SirLouis/farewell.jpg


I couldn't resist...

[kryoboy]

LMFAO.. Maya comic. thats orginal.

[gilley]

Like replacing the motionbuilder system with that amazing character studio that can't even use the graph editor? :bounce:


I know, I am just being an ass :rolleyes:
*goes to hide in a corner*


Nah, like replacing Maya's horrible excuse for a Dope Sheet with a real Dope Sheet :bounce:


...sorry, couldn't resist :)
both softwares have their problems.

[CraigC]

ok, so I just choked on my cereal when I read the e mail from animation magazine.....

Do you think Maya may be phased out over a few years to allow Max dominance? After all, its cheaper in the long run to develop one allpowerfull app than try to keep two afloat.

[SirPhilip]

ok, so I just choked on my cereal when I read the e mail from animation magazine.....

Do you think Maya may be phased out over a few years to allow Max dominance? After all, its cheaper in the long run to develop one allpowerfull app than try to keep two afloat.
I think you probably have that in reverse, I can see a lot of Maya's features being updated into whatever workflow advantages Max offers - if any. I seriously doubt that they would base any new software on Max's code, which desperately needs revising and can't approach the dataset handling of the newer versions of Maya, much less it's dependency-graph functionality.

[Digit]

The news is more favourably received on the Max forum....

Both Max and Maya are too widely used for one to be fazed out but it seems crazy for Autodesk to have two similar packages out there. In a few years they must surely merge in some way dont you think?

Well, anyway, they both have their good and bad points. Lets hope something good will come of it.

edit: I dont really believe this is a good thing! I want XSI!

[thematt]

smart move from XSi to put on maya shortcut...

time to take a look maybe. :)

cheers

[zcmaya3d]

hmmm , thought about it for a whole day .... :-S
well , we know we cannot hold a software forever . to change to another app is just a matter of time.
maybe . hmm , maybe autodesk WILL bring something good for maya . just hope so.. never think the pipleline of maya in industry is that easy to be replaced...
i personally donnot wanna see a child who got max and maya as his/her mum and dad .
what i wanna see is make max more foucs on game staffs
while maya ... of course . film industry.


and another thing , how about studio tool ?
since CAD is another big guy here . maybe merge studio tool and CAD might be a good idea , or make them in one software but two different parts ?

btw , never wanna see the MAX UI again ...... never never never make maya in that way... :D

[Sharky0815]

The thing I´m most afraid of is that autodesk merges products and drops crossplatform compatability... I seriously hope that, should they merge the products, build it on a new core that is crossplatform. I really, really don´t want to be forced to go back to Windows....

Also, I don´t care to much about autodesks pricing structure...

In the end, this wasn´t about Maya and it wasn´t about Max, it was about the CAD Market. The things that seem so important to us don´t necissarily have to be important in the big picture.

[realise]

why all the talk about xsi? i for one will be taking a serious look at houdini. been doing all that xsi has been doing for years. from what i've seen, it's at least one generation ahead of all the competition right now...

[Digit]

I dont think merging these softwares is a possibility. They are too complex and too different.

I am sure Alias and Autodesk are both aware that their products will not be around forever and were both working on replacements and it is here that the effects of the acquisition will be felt as there will be only one replacement.

[Iraphics]

Im a 3dsmax user. But i know it's not good for Maya users.I can feel them.Why Autodesk wanna have 2 huge 3D package? Weird. So we should wait until next version of maya from Autodesk.I guess they don't change Maya ,maybe they apply new fetures .I hope so.

[DJ_]

"$182 Million"????? So you mean than Skype is worth a LOT more then Maya and Studiotools together??? How crazy isn't it??

I don't like this monopoly idea... Less competition = no need to improve. Just like Microsoft. I doubt Autodesk bought the 2 biggest 3D packages in the world to keep them developing separetaly. Some sh** is comming out of it and either it will be the best sh** we've ever seen (doubtfully), or it will be the worst sh** we've ever seen.

XSI, here I come!

[zcmaya3d]

it seems like lots of maya users are going to XSI ???:sad:

donno how is alias thinking about now ?
are they happy or are they sad ?

[zcmaya3d]

I dont think merging these softwares is a possibility. They are too complex and too different.

I am sure Alias and Autodesk are both aware that their products will not be around forever and were both working on replacements and it is here that the effects of the acquisition will be felt as there will be only one replacement.

yeah , that's what i hope :)
make max more game , architecture thing and maya more film staff.:)
that's gonna be good :)

[SirPhilip]

hmmm , thought about it for a whole day .... :-S
well , we know we cannot hold a software forever . to change to another app is just a matter of time.
maybe . hmm , maybe autodesk WILL bring something good for maya . just hope so.. never think the pipleline of maya in industry is that easy to be replaced...
i personally donnot wanna see a child who got max and maya as his/her mum and dad .
what i wanna see is make max more foucs on game staffs
while maya ... of course . film industry.


and another thing , how about studio tool ?
since CAD is another big guy here . maybe merge studio tool and CAD might be a good idea , or make them in one software but two different parts ?

btw , never wanna see the MAX UI again ...... never never never make maya in that way... :D
Bear in mind that games and film are increasingly becoming similer - in fact, this is what makes me wonder the most about what direction Autodesk is going to take Maya. Maya was already positioned to succeed as game production became more visually demanding.

[Lovas]

The ol' friends Max and Maya are getting married...
...The marriages are boring - so it might be a good time to go to the Cinema :) ?

[bjoern]

it seems like lots of maya users are going to XSI ???
Jep, me too!!!

[PEN]

I am dead man ... some one tell me this is not true ...
Bad .. Bad ... Bad :sad: :sad:
i cannot believe ...
bye bye Maya ...
Now maya like Max .... plugins .... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins ...
with out plugins you can not work .... and ..... Autodesk MotionBuilder 7.5 ....I am dead man ...


You have to be kidding. I need just as many plugins to run maya as I do Max already. Actualy right out of the box I need to load way more script and addons in to maya just so I can do basic operations like modeling. And then the next thing that you say is what is next Autodesk MotionBuilder?? That is a plugin for Maya....hahahahahahaha. You just have to hear your self.

[PEN]

I dont think merging these softwares is a possibility. They are too complex and too different.

I am sure Alias and Autodesk are both aware that their products will not be around forever and were both working on replacements and it is here that the effects of the acquisition will be felt as there will be only one replacement.

You hit the nail on the head. If AD shut down the production of Maya it would piss off people all around the world that would then not want to move to Max. Besides the two apps are very different and you can't just replace one with the other going either direction. They require different pipelines different propietary tools and touch one different markets.

http://images.autodesk.com/adsk/files/Autodesk_Alias_External_FAQ.pdf

Read this and you will get a better idea of what is planned.

[klingspor]

I guess Softimage is opening the Champagne just about now...

Anyway, their XSI 5 does look mighty fine, this might be the right time to start learning. I've been using solely Maya in the last years, but the connection with Autodesk alone could be reason enough to switch.

[nitindesign]

I have downloaded XSI and will be migrating gradually to it while continuing to use Maya for the near future. Let's just deal with the reality and move on. Alias probably did not even have a say in all this. It's all about the $$$$ in this world :twisted:
Edited- Some joker was spreading rumours :-)

[Digit]

']

"plan is to stop developing maya in the next 2 years to concentrate on the next-gen version of 3dsmax which name will be announced before end of year"



Lets hope that the nextgen version of max is actually maya!

[stantang]

']
Originally Posted by baby
I'm back from Autodesk european conference in Paris.

I quote word for word :eek: :

"plan is to stop developing maya in the next 2 years to concentrate on the next-gen version of 3dsmax which name will be announced before end of year"


LOL, that's how rumor started... All empolyees (Alias and Autodesk) are not allow to talk about the merger until it's done!

And all these talk about moving to XSI, and XSI is having a party, etc... so wrong, they are the one scratching their head try to find a way to fight back this merger.

[dejawolf]

well this one hit like a meteorite from the clear blue sky.
max user, and game developer.
what will most likely happend is that maya plugins will be adapted for max. and hopefully some of the maya staff will whine and complain about the ridicolous programming errors done in max,
and the maya beta test team will do a proper job of ridding these bugs.
and most hopefully, the guys on top will actually listen.
now i got a survey a while ago, with a very thorough questioning about every aspect of max that i liked or disliked.
what they were most concerned about was that the purchase of the program went as smooth as possible, and that the licencing worked properly. then came questions about actual product quality..

[GennadiyKorol]

']

For what it's worth written on the CG news thread-


Originally Posted by baby
I'm back from Autodesk european conference in Paris.

I quote word for word :eek: :

"plan is to stop developing maya in the next 2 years to concentrate on the next-gen version of 3dsmax which name will be announced before end of year"





That was a joke... No panic :)

[DJ_]

"plan is to stop developing maya in the next 2 years to concentrate on the next-gen version of 3dsmax which name will be announced before end of year"

Looks for me like the wrong way... It would be easier to improve Mayas UI and make it more intuitive... I guess they are only looking at the nrs of users, not the capabilities of the programs. To focus on a worse product just becouse it sells more... sounds just like Microsoft.

Lets hope that the nextgen version of max is actually maya!

LOOOL ;)

[nitindesign]

That was a joke... No panic :)

Yep for now :sad:

[PEN]

well this one hit like a meteorite from the clear blue sky.
max user, and game developer.
what will most likely happend is that maya plugins will be adapted for max. and hopefully some of the maya staff will whine and complain about the ridicolous programming errors done in max,
and the maya beta test team will do a proper job of ridding these bugs.
and most hopefully, the guys on top will actually listen.
now i got a survey a while ago, with a very thorough questioning about every aspect of max that i liked or disliked.
what they were most concerned about was that the purchase of the program went as smooth as possible, and that the licencing worked properly. then came questions about actual product quality..

I hate to tell you, Maya has more bugs in it them Max. It has so many tools that just don't work as advertised. Max and now 8 are more stable and more feature complete then Maya by a long shot. Time to open your eyes and see the forest ahead of you.

[nitindesign]

I hate to tell you, Maya has more bugs in it them Max. It has so many tools that just don't work as advertised. Max and now 8 are more stable and more feature complete then Maya by a long shot. Time to open your eyes and see the forest ahead of you.

Hey Pen why would you come to Maya forum and put salt on our wounds? :twisted:
Max's UI sucks for >ME< and that alone is reason enough not to use it :wise:

[Steve McRae]

The best thing for softimage to do now is to offer compeditive upgrades to XSI.

I can't say I'll be upgrading to 7.5 untill there is a VERY CLEAR understanding of where things are heading with Maya.

[GennadiyKorol]

I hate to tell you, Maya has more bugs in it them Max. It has so many tools that just don't work as advertised. Max and now 8 are more stable and more feature complete then Maya by a long shot. Time to open your eyes and see the forest ahead of you.

I'm using both maya and max, max is faaar more buggy, slow, chunky etc etc etc. Maya has a couple of small bugs, but they aren't critical. The main 3d max bug is that you're unable to work on a complex scene more than 3 minutes, when I worked with max I had a ctrl+s reflex for maya left arm :) So don't even start.

[][ndy]

What?? Microsoft is buying Linux????? NOOOOOO! How can they do this!? Now they will surly stop developing Windows and just going with Linux. Does that mean that the old DOS promt will come back?

What, just a dream. Thank god!
Autodesk is buying Alias? If that is all....

Just kidding. I do not believe that Autodesk can afford to stop Maya or to change it drastically. Maya is the leading 3D Software in the film industry and I think they will have something against a big change in the software. Time is money, even time which is spent in learning a new software!

[Emil3d]

After reading quickly through the posted messages, I think most people here have no idea how good this news is for Maya users. Maya is now backed up by a financially strong company and its future has never been any brighter than now. Look at the 2 years share price performance of Autodesk (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=ADSK&t=2y) and see for yourself what route Maya is taking. Do any of you have an idea who was the yesterday owner of Maya? No it wasn’t Alias, till yesterday it was officially owned by Accel-KKR and Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan. A question for you: does that company sound any better than Autodesk? In fact you guys should have really worried about the certainty of Maya’s future and seriously consider alternatives last summer when Alias was owned by SGI and its grim performance. SGI financials (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=SGI&t=2y) shows very clearly were Alias was headed. I don’t know the money involved but I got a feeling that the Ontario Teachers are cashing now a good profit from buying Alias from SGI and selling it to Autodesk who didn’t react on time last year to grab this jewel.

Those interested in making a move fo XSI may check the financial situation of AVID (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=AVID&t=2y&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=) which is not rosy at all. With the ridicules price drop of XSI base now being on the red in the AVID’s Softimage department, one can only wonder, was the price cut a sound business decision or desperation of a dying department. If my consideration when choosing a 3D program is the future and the financial health of the company, then XSI would be at the bottom of my list.

For me this merger is not shocking news at all, in fact I think it was high time for this kind of mergers to start and expect much more to come. It is unjustifiable so many products and incompatible platforms to compete for such a small market where the small 3D community I believe was actually hurt than benefit form this kind of competition.

I also find ridiculous that some people worry about the fact that now Autodesk owns 2 competitive programs which eventually may merge into one, and the fear of Maya being integrated (downgraded) to MAX.
I never heard of a case in the computer industry that a combination of 2 major programs have ever resulted in a inferior product. Now I wonder how Power Animator users felt when they found out about Alias merging with Wavefront. If some of you don’t know - the result was a new product called Maya.

I believe that combining the current best from all 3D programs into one is the best for the 3D community and I don’t worry about a lack of competition at this time at all. Do Photoshop users suffer a lot from the lack of another 5 major 2D programs to choose from? I think they will be worst off if that was the case.

As a Maya user I don’t worry at all about eventual combination of Maya and Max. In fact if anybody has to worry that they have to change workflow or knowledge assets, it should be the Max users who have to make the catch up if the 2 products merge.

[zed3D]

They are just tools guys and girls. Get over it!

You know it does help to think positively in life! :)

zed3D

[Lovas]

[ndy']... I do not believe that Autodesk can afford to stop Maya or to change it drastically. Maya is the leading 3D Software in the film industry...

That's what people were thinking when the Lightscape software had been bought a while ago (was it in the previous century? Am I really that old ???)... Lightscape was one of the rare applications of the time that offered GI (radiosity) and was thus very popular, especially amongst architects. People were convinced that "they can't do it" and in spite of that Lightscape disappeared overnight and its GI engine appeared integrated in the next release of that Max zombie. 182 megabucks is pocket money to pay to get rid of the main competition on the market plus enhance own software.

Well, since I'm using Cinema 4D I don't have to worry (the software is already bought - majority of the shares - by another CAD gigant, Nemetschek and I doubt they will ever sell it to to their main competiton, Autodesk...) - but I'm still worried, I came to love that little software jewel named Motion Builder...

[morimitsu]

SGI bought Alias and Wavefront and after 3 years they revolutionized the 3d industry with Maya. Everybody was copying and pasting features from Maya since it´s release.

Now, after Autodesk bought Alias, we can wait for a new revolutionary software for the next 3 or 5 years.
I heard many people telling Autodesk it was time to rewrite Max. Now with the aquisition of Alias they got plenty of help to do it so. Not just rewrite Max, but rewrite Maya as well and combine the best of both worlds each one filling the gaps of each other to create a new revolutionary software.

And with 300 millions of dollars in the right hand they can´t create a buggy software like Max. I´m preatty sure the great genious enginneers that work at Alias will not disappoint us, now that they got a lot of money to do RD.

[PEN]

']Hey Pen why would you come to Maya forum and put salt on our wounds? :twisted:
Max's UI sucks for >ME< and that alone is reason enough not to use it :wise:


I'm not here putting salt in wounds. I drop in here all the time when I need Maya answers. I use both apps. I'm just sick of users of one app making blanket statments with out any real knowedge of what they are saying.

I also don't understand why Maya users are all in a panic. AD isn't about to just stop production of Maya, that would be insane. They are also not about to fire all the programmers from Alias as they wouldn't have a clue as to how anything works. They are not about to fire all the marketing people as they know thier clientel. They can't just merge the two packages together as that isn't possible from a programming stand point. Maya just got infused with billions of dollars is how you should look at it. I'm hoping that some of the things that I don't like about Maya will final get addressed becasue AD has been doing a great job of that with Max over the last three releases and the things that I don't like about Max will get a new outlook from the developers of Maya and it will also improve. The best thing would be that they create a really strong pipeline using MB or something like it so that we can use both apps as easily as possible. Both apps have some great stuff in them and some crap stuff in them. I hope that we all gain, because if we don't we will all loose if they do this wrong and even the Max users will have to learn XSI.

Business is business and that is all there is to it. It isn't like Alias hasn't been bought before, did anything change? Nope. Does AD understand how to make a strong product, yep, Max is the number one licensed 3D software there is, maybe they can do the same with Maya, or maybe some nextgen based on what is best of both. How about 3D software with a stack and a history.

I don't really care about UI's, you get used to what ever you are using. I write as many tools for one as I do for the other to improve my work flow so that is such a minor issue it has no effect on it for me at all. I need programs that can help my company succeed, that is all.

[PEN]

SGI bought Alias and Wavefront and after 3 years they revolutionized the 3d industry with Maya. Everybody was copying and pasting features from Maya since it´s release.

Now, after Autodesk bought Alias, we can wait for a new revolutionary software for the next 3 or 5 years.
I heard many people telling Autodesk it was time to rewrite Max. Now with the aquisition of Alias they got plenty of help to do it so. Not just rewrite Max, but rewrite Maya as well and combine the best of both worlds each one filling the gaps of each other to create a new revolutionary software.

And with 300 millions of dollars in the right hand they can´t create a buggy software like Max. I´m preatty sure the great genious enginneers that work at Alias will not disappoint us, now that they got a lot of money to do RD.


And Maya doesn't have bugs...haha...hahahahahaha.....ahahahahahahhahahahahaha, you guys are killing me.

[PokeChop]

Apple buys software, rewrites the UI, drops the Windows version, fits it into their "scheme" of software, and applies their pricing structure.

Adobe buys Macromedia, combines the best of both worlds, calls it Fireshop, drops the Mac version because they get mad at Apple, fits it into their "scheme" of software, and applies their pricing structure.

Autodesk buys Alias, combines the best of both worlds, calls it Mayax, drops the Mac version, and applies their pricing structure.

Autodesk knows Max is long in the tooth and something has to be done soon to keep users interested. How better to rewrite the best selling 3D software than buy your competition and have their help. Their are great things about both apps. How much greater would it be to have all those great things right at your fingertips. I think it can only be helpful in the long run. I personally can't wait to see what comes of this.

[mayaxmayax]

Ok PEN
MotionBuilder is a standard program
the plugin is just for Export and Import ....
and i know there is many plugins for maya but you can work without them .....
---------------------------------

Autodesk buys Alias, combines the best of both worlds, calls it Mayax
that is my name yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh :bounce:
----------------------------------
what so ever ....... alias 2 Autodesk ====> maya = max ===> Kill maya people :sad:

[Lluc]

OH MY GOD ! :cry:
First the hurricanes and now this. How much more?!!

[morimitsu]

And Maya doesn't have bugs...haha...hahahahahaha.....ahahahahahahhahahahahaha, you guys are killing me.

:) Where did you read that?

[roger3d]

Now a funny thing:
Softimage came with a love tour.
Autodesk is declaring war.

Just kidding, of course.
It´s just 3d softwares, anyways. No need to fight each other.

[suztv]

Boy - this is truly weird. Frist Adobe buys Macromedia and now Autodesk buys Alias. Pretty soon Adobe will buy Apple and then it will be bought by Microsoft which in turn will buy Google and then buy autodesk and we will all be sitting with one application that can do backflips....

I just hope that it doesn't screw us up. I really like Maya but I also use 3D Max - I cannot imagine the two mixed.

[Steve McRae]

For those of you who have not heard this, here is a very interesting merger and acquisition announcement audio feed from Autodesk with the news for investors.

Most of it is Q&A

http://investors.autodesk.com/phoenix.zhtml?p=irol-eventDetails&c=117861&eventID=1139679

[PEN]

and i know there is many plugins for maya but you can work without them .....


And so you can in Max as well. Just my point isn't it. They both need plugins just the same.

[PEN]

:) Where did you read that?

And with 300 millions of dollars in the right hand they can´t create a buggy software like Max. I´m preatty sure the great genious enginneers that work at Alias will not disappoint us, now that they got a lot of money to do RD.

The implication is that Maya programmers can write software that doesn't have bugs and the Max ones can't. Who is kidding who here.

[mooncry]

100% aggree with emil3d:) enough said.

[butCherHeLL]

http://www.alias.com/glb/eng/press/press_release_details.jsp?itemId=3600004


nooOOooooo...


I dont wantto believe'it...


if I would love max... I would use it.

but I love maya.

so I want maya... not max.... nor any integration...



max is shitty plugin eater money .

I hate its interface.
I hate its statical UI
I hate its renders


maybe only name....
the strategy of development of maya must be same.

also maya is developing since 1980...


someone have to protect maya rules.

maya has its own style.

I love it.

I hate max
and every its commercial plugins.

[macmayaguy]

As Mac Maya user i'm a little nervous. If Maya continues on as it's own product I think we'll be ok. If Autodesk creates a "3d Studio Maya" I fear we mac users are screwed.

The only bright point is that in the Alias purchase FAQ that someone posted earlier, they specifically pointed to all the different platforms Maya runs on as a strength they wanted to leverage. If this was a genuine reason it could show a change of attitude at Autodesk towards non windows systems.

Either way i'm getting drunk tonight. :(

[Pajamas]

Hi Paul Neale.

I'm welcoming you're perspective on this. There is of course a low signal-to-noise ratio about this. I count your opinion because TD's like yourself, Michael Comet or Steve Theodore have gone deep into both packages. 2 quick questions:

Are you concerned at all by this answer in their faq?

"Q23: What platforms do the Autodesk® 3ds Max® and Alias’ Maya software support?
A23: ...Maya software supports Linux®, Windows® and Macintosh® operating systems, making it the top choice for platform-sensitive segments like high-end film, whereas 3ds Max software is a Windows application that is used most often in world-building for games."

I've used 3ds & max for 10 years and Maya for 2. And I see a complex set of tradeoffs. I've seen a couple of your rigging talks and gathered (and confirmed by my own experience) that you can rig virtually the same in both packages. They both support Mental Ray. I teach edgeloop modeling and my students can then model in both packages. Although I prefer max's interface and maya's node connections and flow, I've seen parity for a while.

Would you agree?

[macmayaguy]

Hi Paul Neale.

"Q23: What platforms do the Autodesk® 3ds Max® and Alias’ Maya software support?
A23: ...Maya software supports Linux®, Windows® and Macintosh® operating systems, making it the top choice for platform-sensitive segments like high-end film, whereas 3ds Max software is a Windows application that is used most often in world-building for games."
[font=Arial][size=2]

Thanks.. that quote. Funny thing is, it sounds like they'r talking Maya up and reducing Max to only for "world-building for games." I'm not a Max fan, but I know it can do a lot more than that! Maybe the Max users should be nervous and not us?

[oneigekko]

im sure they'll keep both packages. Although I gotta admit. Maya's interface has been the same for about 203r4093 YEARS and they just keep shoving more tools into it. They need an total overhaul more than any other application.

[PEN]

Hi Paul Neale.

I'm welcoming you're perspective on this. There is of course a low signal-to-noise ratio about this. I count your opinion because TD's like yourself, Michael Comet or Steve Theodore have gone deep into both packages. 2 quick questions:

Are you concerned at all by this answer in their faq?

"Q23: What platforms do the Autodesk® 3ds Max® and Alias’ Maya software support?
A23: ...Maya software supports Linux®, Windows® and Macintosh® operating systems, making it the top choice for platform-sensitive segments like high-end film, whereas 3ds Max software is a Windows application that is used most often in world-building for games."

I've used 3ds & max for 10 years and Maya for 2. And I see a complex set of tradeoffs. I've seen a couple of your rigging talks and gathered (and confirmed by my own experience) that you can rig virtually the same in both packages. They both support Mental Ray. I teach edgeloop modeling and my students can then model in both packages. Although I prefer max's interface and maya's node connections and flow, I've seen parity for a while.

Would you agree?

Well that is really the truth in where Max is used and why it isn't use as much in big feature work isn't it. how ever is you listen to the discussion, where I believe that came from, it is also geared to investors that are worried that AD has made a good buy. Talking up the purchase would only make sence even if they had bought Animation Master. Max isn't in the same markets as Maya not because it can't do character work, as I have found first hand it can and it can do it every bit as well as Maya. Part of what I defend here is the bull that "Maya heads" give for reasons that you can't or don't want to use Max. They are usualy regurgitating bull feed by other Maya heads that have never used the packge as well. Some one just up this post said that he hates Max's renderings?? You mean the same Mental ray renderings that he uses. You mean Brazil and Vray, and one of those was use in the increadibles. And which Maya (Non Plugin Renderer, because we all know that Maya users don't use plugins...ya right) render is better then what is in Max. Back on topic, none of this means that Max's ability to be used for character work will not get further developed and nor does it mean that Mayas ability to be used in games will be stoped. They are simply pointing out where the largest portion of the market is for each. It also doesn't mean that Max can't be used to create features, it is used that way all the time, it doesn't mean that you shouldn't use Maya to create games, it is used that way all the time. So what do I read into that...nothing at all.

[PEN]

As Mac Maya user i'm a little nervous. If Maya continues on as it's own product I think we'll be ok. If Autodesk creates a "3d Studio Maya" I fear we mac users are screwed.

The only bright point is that in the Alias purchase FAQ that someone posted earlier, they specifically pointed to all the different platforms Maya runs on as a strength they wanted to leverage. If this was a genuine reason it could show a change of attitude at Autodesk towards non windows systems.

Either way i'm getting drunk tonight. :(

There is no reason that AD would change anything about the way Maya is developed, and they have said this many times.

[K. Scott Gant]

also maya is developing since 1980...

Wow, Maya has been in development since 1980? Wow, been in development before even basic concepts in 3D were even off the ground!

What kind of system did Maya run on back in 1980?

[criminal]

this sucks man!! it truly does.

[Bobo]

That's what people were thinking when the Lightscape software had been bought a while ago (was it in the previous century? Am I really that old ???)...


I am too old, too. Discreet Logic acquired Lightscape in 1997.
When Autodesk acquired Discreet Logic about 1.5 - 2 years later, they suddenly owned Lightscape along with the applications they actually wanted.
So they did not buy Lightscape with the intention to ruin it. (although the final result was similar ;))

[ali-rahimi-shahmirzadi]

Its a realy realy bad news. i cant beleve it.maya was a piece of art and 3dsmax is a plugin manager. its all because of a dirty money.i think you guys in us and canada should Parade. goodbye maya.:sad:

[Andrei2k]

All I have to say is that I don't like this because this is not about "positive change" and will lead to unnecessary things such as people having to learn new software, intergration, etc. The bottom line is that this is about money and the Investment group that owned Alias decided to cash out instead of making the company public 5 years ago in order to actually expand R&D on their own and make a real industrial mark in the media industry. Now they just handed over an incredible ammount of leverage to a competitor that will in turn use it to make the most money regardless if its really the best for the users. From a user business view the competition is what resulted in better innovations and tools while each software copied things here and there from competitors. A merger will not force them to do anything to either that they feel is not benefitting their pockets, so I am afraid that all that R&D money is not 'heavenly' for Maya users because the competitions pressure is greatly reduced by XSI being the only other 'power' 3D software.

If I was the Maya developers I'd get lawyers and walk away 'as intellectual property' and refuse the deal but that's easy for me to say.

[zcmaya3d]

Autodesk buys Alias, combines the best of both worlds, calls it Mayax
that is my name yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh :bounce:


lol hahaha:thumbsup:

[zcmaya3d]

hey , anyone realize a thing ?
the maya-xsi migrants in XSI 5
maybe AVID has already got the news while they develop xsi 5 ?:rolleyes:

[annaleah]

Still pukeing here.......:rolleyes:

[kabojnk]

I dunno, I think the merger will effect some interesting changes in production pipelines. I kind of view it as getting robbed and beaten by some famous actor like David Duchovny. I mean, at first you'll be like, "WTF. That ****er took my wallet." But after an hour or so, you'll be like "Wow, that was David Duchovny. That was just the coolest experience I've ever had."

Of course, the analogy could work backwards where you're initially impressed until you've found out that you've just lost everything.

Um, I don't think it'd be practical for Autodesk to be continuing two different products, so either it's going to be 3dsmax or Maya once they figure out how and when to merge and then kill off one of the products. It'll probably be released under a new package name, too. Obviously, Autodesk is currently saying what'll please most ears, but as time goes on we'll learn that Autodesk is just like any politician and will start to alter their course of action.

The odds are, if they put up Maya against Max, Maya would win. Anyone who says that Max is great for games should take another look around and see what major game companies are using. The best Max has going for it is gmax for mod developers. With that pointed out, Max would have only strongpoints in very small areas, and I'd think that it'd be more likely to take those few strengths and pack them into Maya (or whatever hybrid they will create in the future). So, I'm not too worried about Maya.

I think the one thing that I am excited to see from the merger is the possibility for an all-Linux pipeline under one company. Unfortunately, that's one of the things I'm also scared to see. I don't like the idea of one massive juggernaut dominating the gaming and film industry.

[floze]

I dunno, I think the merger will effect some interesting changes in production pipelines. I kind of view it as getting robbed and beaten by some famous actor like David Duchovny. I mean, at first you'll be like, "WTF. That ****er took my wallet." But after an hour or so, you'll be like "Wow, that was David Duchovny. That was just the coolest experience I've ever had."

Of course, the analogy could work backwards where you're initially impressed until you've found out that you've just lost everything.
Mwahaha, I'd sue that dude immediately.. :D :D

Thanks for the laugh. :cool:

[roger3d]

hey , anyone realize a thing ?
the maya-xsi migrants in XSI 5
maybe AVID has already got the news while they develop xsi 5 ?:rolleyes:

Does anyone realize another thing?
The huge price drop plan of xsi was the 3D despera.... oops. 3D democracy?

[Karlfucious]

I dont think that we should be worried about what Autodesk is going to change about Maya. Instead we should be worring about what AD isnt going to change about Maya. Autodesk is notorious for really weak releases. Look at Auto CAD for Example which is supposidly AD's flagship program. They havent really added any worthwile features since Auto CAD 2000. This includes all of the Cad spinoffs that they make. Max isn't much diffrent either.

So with all that said lets all stop pulling our hair out worrying about Maya and look forward to the new features in the next release. Such as fancier shelf buttons, Colorfull manipulators, and if we are lucky a few more colors for layers.

[arneltapia]

Who's next for Autodesk? Apple? Avid? Hehehe.

[Lyr]

Maya isn't going anywhere for a long time. The software is so amazingly flexible and customizable that Alias has a hell of time getting studios to upgrade. If you've ever been to one of those launch events chances are you've heard an Alias rep bitch about how hard it is to get people to upgrade, or if you work in the industry you have probably seen this yourself. It will probably be even harder to get people to upgrade now. Anyway your Maya skills are still going to be viable in the market place for a long time.

If you are feeling a little insecure right now (this is a huge change) learn another app on the side, if you are in the film fx market learn Houdini. It takes some familiar concepts in Maya and goes much further with them. Not to mention thier apprentice program is very nice.

[nana313]

I am dead man ... some one tell me this is not true ...
Bad .. Bad ... Bad :sad: :sad:
i cannot believe ...
bye bye Maya ...
Now maya like Max .... plugins .... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins.... plugins ...
with out plugins you can not work .... and ..... Autodesk MotionBuilder 7.5 ....I am dead man ...



Goodbye Maya :sad: :sad: :sad:


Welcome SXI :)

[gelfie]

Ok, here is my view.

MAX and Maya were competitors. When someone bought MAX Alias missed out on $$, when someone bought Maya Autodesk missed out on $$.

Now when someone buys MAX, Autodesk make money. And they also make money when someone buys Maya. They have no reason to kill one or the other off. They have just massively expanded their user base.

And even if they do decide to merge the apps in the future. So what? It will take YEARS for the new app to become ready. Look at the development times for Maya and XSI. And lets not forget that deep down Maya is one of the most passed around and merged pieces of software out there. Who is to say that merging it one more time would result in something bad?

[Lolly]

A23: 3ds Max and Maya software products differ greatly in supported platforms.
Maya software supports Linux, Windows and Macintosh operating systems,
making it the top choice for platform-sensitive segments like high-end film,
whereas 3ds Max software is a Windows application that is used most often in
world-building for games.

well,I guess -> Next version,Maya will only supports Linux and Macintosh,3ds max will continue clean thousands and tens of thousands bugs，and available in a more number of languages.really?http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/icons/icon6.gif
like Shake ravished by Apple!!

[nemirc]

well,I guess -> Next version,Maya will only supports Linux and Macintosh,3ds max will continue clean thousands and tens of thousands bugs，and available in a more number of languages.really?http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/icons/icon6.gif
like Shake ravished by Apple!!

That would be a really dumb move... Like people would say "well, Maya is not available for windows anymore so we HAVE to get 3DS MAX :beer: "


annaleah: same here :rolleyes:

[Emil3d]

All I have to say is that I don't like this because this is not about "positive change" and will lead to unnecessary things such as people having to learn new software, intergration, etc. The bottom line is that this is about money and the Investment group that owned Alias decided to cash out instead of making the company public 5 years ago in order to actually expand R&D on their own and make a real industrial mark in the media industry. Now they just handed over an incredible ammount of leverage to a competitor that will in turn use it to make the most money regardless if its really the best for the users. From a user business view the competition is what resulted in better innovations and tools while each software copied things here and there from competitors. A merger will not force them to do anything to either that they feel is not benefitting their pockets, so I am afraid that all that R&D money is not 'heavenly' for Maya users because the competitions pressure is greatly reduced by XSI being the only other 'power' 3D software.

If I was the Maya developers I'd get lawyers and walk away 'as intellectual property' and refuse the deal but that's easy for me to say.

I think there’s no ground for your fears. The real competition in major software packages is not coming from other company’s competition but from the current versus the new version of the program. I said it in my previous post and will say it again the best thing that can happen for the small 3D community is all 3D programming talent working on one program.

[roger3d]

[QUOTE=gelfie]It will take YEARS for the new app to become ready. Look at the development times for Maya and XSI. QUOTE]
It took 3 years after SGI bought Alias and Wavefront to release Maya.
Probably it will took no more than 5 years for the next generation of software to come up.

[SirPhilip]

Still pukeing here.......:rolleyes:
Same here, and definitely puke is the right word. I'd hold any "blue sky" outcome of this with a lot of suspicion. Get real everyone, Max and Maya's markets heavily overlap. Autodesk now owns two different competing products. Either Maya turns into Mayax (my ax?) or both turn into a completely different product - or they fuse Maya, Max, and Motionbuilder, throw in an integrated compositor, and take Softimage head on.

Either way, you have a situation where:

1) Maya's UI and workflow will be drastically altered. Puke.
2) Many new integration problems could occur with releases, making an already proven product needlessly bloated and instable. Puke.
3) Plug-in and backwards compatibility unpleasantness for native Max and Maya files. Puke.
4) Having to retool a pipeline and train everyone to work differently. Puke.
5) Rewriting DirectX and engine-specific data handling plug-ins. Puke.

[yinako]

deleted deleted

[housewarmer]

Wow, Maya has been in development since 1980? Wow, been in development before even basic concepts in 3D were even off the ground!



I'll pretend you're just ignorant. 3d's been around for quite a long time. The film Tron for example was produced in in 1980-81, and made quite extensive use of 3d CG. Even before that various 3d technologies where used in science, engineering, & defense. As for hardware, Tron's cg was produced on a Foonly. Cray supercomputers were also populer.

[]-UnderTOW-[]

I think a lot of you are getting worked up over nothing. Maya will still be maya. Max will still be max. BTW, Autodesk own more products than just max. You don't think we'll see Autocad implemented into maya or something, do you?
We may see some improvements on both sides, but we'd never see the total ruination of either product (well, you can't ruin max any more than it already is :p). Both maya and max have 2 massive (and usually very seperated) fanbases. Autodesk would have to be total retards to attempt to fade out either one for the other, or try to fade out both with a new product (unless it was simply brilliant). If Autodesk were to create a new product that's some hybrid of the two programs (and that would be a big if), they'd keep supporting Maya and Max for a long time afterwards.

[drmaya]

i am not a dr.maya:sad:

[ranbby]

Not too sad.

the initials of those two companies are "A". You can just ignore the rest.

Assume that Autodesk is Alias. So everyone is happy now.

[MrPositive]

-UnderTOW-[']I think a lot of you are getting worked up over nothing. Maya will still be maya. Max will still be max. BTW, Autodesk own more products than just max. You don't think we'll see Autocad implemented into maya or something, do you?
We may see some improvements on both sides, but we'd never see the total ruination of either product (well, you can't ruin max any more than it already is :p). Both maya and max have 2 massive (and usually very seperated) fanbases. Autodesk would have to be total retards to attempt to fade out either one for the other, or try to fade out both with a new product (unless it was simply brilliant). If Autodesk were to create a new product that's some hybrid of the two programs (and that would be a big if), they'd keep supporting Maya and Max for a long time afterwards.

Best post I've seen on the subject and I've read quite a few........thousand.

[zcmaya3d]

hey , i just read a pdf file autodesk provided on their website:
and i wanna quote one sentence in it :


Autodesk will continue to
develop the Alias product lines in conjunction with Autodesk’s complementary products and
technologies.

so , how do you think ? i personally feel we donnot need to worry about maya is gonna die or something like that....

[cpan]

hey , i just read a pdf file autodesk provided on their website:
and i wanna quote one sentence in it :


Autodesk will continue to
develop the Alias product lines in conjunction with Autodesk’s complementary products and
technologies.

so , how do you think ? i personally feel we donnot need to worry about maya is gonna die or something like that....

mee too :D

maybe they will make a better connection between the two apps and will pump more money in Alias's Science Men like it was in the SGI era :)

[swag]

maya is now versions 7 - poweranimator goes to version 8 (or 9)
its time for something new and there is a hope that the max+maya team goes for something
greate i think the max ppl learn from the past and they see the xsi hype too so why not pray
and hope for something big that let xsi look like shit ....why not!

[Kinjiru]

3D - Discreet buy's Alias
2D - Adobe buy's Macromedia

Monopoly is comming...

[zcmaya3d]

maya is now versions 7 - poweranimator goes to version 8
its time for something new and there is a hope that the max+maya team goes for something
greate i think the max ppl learn from the past and they see the xsi hype too so why not pray
and hope for something big that let xsi look like shit ....why not!

:p studio tools already got its version of 12 :p do we need something new ?

it certainly will be good we get better things .
BUT , for me . maybe also for some of guys here as well .
a software to me is not just a software.
after long time used it you build actually a relationship between it and you .
maya is like a close friend to me
i donnot wanna see my friend be killed by someone else... :cry: :banghead:
if they release a better stuff , well , yeah , i might will go for that but it DO will need time to say farewell to the one who was together with me . i even will still run it sometimes cos i donno wanna lose it .. :banghead:

[akika]

3D - Discreet buy's Alias
2D - Adobe buy's Macromedia

Monopoly is comming...

Yep. Your are right.

I don´t think they bought Alias for technological reasons but for economical reasons. Of course they want the money they spend back and the most likely way is less investment in innovation (with no competitor this is possible) and an even more unfriendly pricing and updating policy.

Of course Autodesk will further keep developing MAYA. But they will do it like the did it with MAX. Some minor features here, some extra Plugins that are now part of the bundle etc.

I think we all have to wait a really long time before we will see a new major update for both software packages (and a clean rebuild is what the MAX Community is waiting for since Version4). But hopefully we will see a brand new software (the hybrid you were talking about) in some years.

In the end this really bad news for both: MaxUsers and MayaUsers.

[SirPhilip]

maya is now versions 7 - poweranimator goes to version 8
The last version of PowerAnimator I believe was 9.0 (NT, AIX, Irix).

[Cosmo]

a lot of opinions were posted here already, but here's my view on it (like anyone cares;)

i don't believe Autodesk will invest money in 2 applications that basically were designed do the same thing.

in the near future not much will change, but i guess in the long run one application will be formed.

Alias went from PowerAnimator to Maya and was an improvement (in the end) so i guess we'll see another 'new age' 3d app in let's say about 2 years?

[DJ_]

a lot of opinions were posted here already, but here's my view on it (like anyone cares;)

i don't believe Autodesk will invest money in 2 applications that basically were designed do the same thing.

in the near future not much will change, but i guess in the long run one application will be formed.

Alias went from PowerAnimator to Maya and was an improvement (in the end) so i guess we'll see another 'new age' 3d app in let's say about 2 years?
I believe you're right. I just hope this new app will be based on Maya because of it's potential, not based on Max because of the nr of licenses sold...

[ICY]

There is a 3ds max which never could come even close to Maya's futures. Paint effect? Sucks! Tree generator? Sucks! Nurbs modeling? Sucks! Dynamics? Sucks! Sucks! Sucks!

So, Autodesk wasn't sure how to include Fluids into max, so they decided to ruin the single software that was doing the magic. I don't think Maya will go away. There are too many movie companies using it. Too many companies are using it in general. But it's scary to imagine what the evolution of Maya will look like from now on. Yep, you can follow the receipt of brad baking, but every bakery will get a different result based on the management, qualification of the team members, office politics and the ingredients. Maya for me was as Starbacks comparing to other coffee places, like Porsche comparing to other cars, like classic literature comparing to love novels junk. I was proud to say: I am Maya user.

I am very upset. It seems that the losers take over the world this year, first - Adobe and Macromedia, now - Autodesk and Alias.

[morimitsu]

Same here, and definitely puke is the right word. I'd hold any "blue sky" outcome of this with a lot of suspicion. Get real everyone, Max and Maya's markets heavily overlap. Autodesk now owns two different competing products. Either Maya turns into Mayax (my ax?) or both turn into a completely different product - or they fuse Maya, Max, and Motionbuilder, throw in an integrated compositor, and take Softimage head on.

Either way, you have a situation where:

1) Maya's UI and workflow will be drastically altered. Puke.
2) Many new integration problems could occur with releases, making an already proven product needlessly bloated and instable. Puke.
3) Plug-in and backwards compatibility unpleasantness for native Max and Maya files. Puke.
4) Having to retool a pipeline and train everyone to work differently. Puke.
5) Rewriting DirectX and engine-specific data handling plug-ins. Puke.

I think many Power Animators didn`t like Maya that much in the beggining.
If with this purchase Autodesk release a brand new revolutionary product, better for us.
Just like was the Maya release.

Anyway, isn`t time for them to start thinking in rewritting Maya and Max?
Even if Autodesk didn`t buy Alias, Alias could come up with a new generation software to replace Maya in the next years to come, just like what happen with 3D Studio to 3D Max, Softimage 3D to XSI, and of course, Power Animator to Maya.

The big problem for me is... if this next generation will be more similar to Maya or Max...
If it will be more similar to Maya, then I`m happy!
Say, 70% Maya, filling ALL the gaps with other 30% Max.

[DrOnion]

email they sent us...

October 4, 2005



Dear Alias Customer,


Today Autodesk and Alias announced the signing of a definitive agreement
for Autodesk to acquire Alias.


Alias is a leading developer of 3D graphics technology, headquartered in
Toronto, Canada. Alias develops and delivers software and services for
film and video, interactive games, media and the Web. It also develops
software and services for consumer products, industrial design,
automotive, architecture and visualization customers.


With more than six million users, Autodesk is the world's leading
software and services company for the manufacturing, infrastructure,
building, digital media and wireless data services fields. Autodesk's
solutions help customers to create, manage and share their digital
assets more effectively. The acquisition of Alias will continue to round
out our product lines across industry segments.


As many of you are aware, in the media and entertainment industry, most
leading film studios, game developers and high-end visual effects
companies use Alias' MayaR, MotionBuilderR and FBXR software. Most also
use Autodesk's complementary InfernoR, FlameR, LustreR and 3ds MaxR
products. The most demanding industrial designers in the world use
Alias' StudioToolsT, primarily in the automotive and consumer products
segments. Bringing this technology to Autodesk will strengthen the
manufacturing business by integrating conceptual design as a front-end
to Inventor Series and the PLM solution.


The acquisition also brings to Autodesk a highly talented group of
individuals, a wealth of technologies and a great set of products. By
combining the technology and talents of two successful, financially
healthy companies, we will be better able to continue delivering
solutions that address your ever-changing and increasingly complex
needs. And yes, Autodesk plans to continue to support and develop Alias
products as well as utilize the strength of the combined organization to
provide customers with continued innovation and technology development.



The transaction is expected to close in the next four to six months.
Until that time, Autodesk and Alias will continue operating as
independent companies and will remain focused on our current customer
needs. We do not anticipate any changes with respect to planned product
releases for either company. Please continue using your existing
contacts for sales, services and support. We will update you on the
progress of this acquisition, both directly and online at
http://bm.alias.com:8080/bm/servlet/ProxyServlet?cmID=C7582L252323U72336
9


On behalf of Autodesk and Alias, we would like to thank you for your
business and reiterate our commitment to ensuring that this event -
which is exciting for both our companies - will prove even more so for
you.


Sincerely,

Carol Bartz

Chairman and CEO

Autodesk, Inc.


Doug Walker

President and CEO

Alias

[Emil3d]

-UnderTOW-[']
I think a lot of you are getting worked up over nothing. Maya will still be maya. Max will still be max. …

…We may see some improvements on both sides, but we'd never see the total ruination of either product …

… Autodesk would have to be total retards to attempt to fade out either one for the other, or try to fade out both with a new product (unless it was simply brilliant). If Autodesk were to create a new product that's some hybrid of the two programs (and that would be a big if), they'd keep supporting Maya and Max for a long time afterwards.



…i don't believe Autodesk will invest money in 2 applications that basically were designed do the same thing.
in the near future not much will change, but i guess in the long run one application will be formed.
Alias went from PowerAnimator to Maya and was an improvement (in the end) so i guess we'll see another 'new age' 3d app in let's say about 2 years?
In regards to the above quotes, I would like to point that for me the most likely scenario that will happen is what already Adobe did with the 2 page layout programs Page Maker and Frame Maker they bought from Aldus and Frame Technology. Although the 2 programs were competitors they were, and still serve their niche markets. Adobe still keeps, develops, and enhances both and meanwhile they created a new InDesign, which is built from the best of those two and also a lot of code sourced directly from their other products like Illustrator and Photoshop. Nobody got ever hurt, and a new product evolved that is currently taking over the page layout industry.

I believe this is exactly what will happen to Maya and Max. This is a proven successful business model that satisfies everybody and Autodesk will simply go that way.
Maya and Max will continue to be around and continue their current paths, but they will create a new program written by the combined efforts of all Maya and Max programmers and will be dubbed as the icing on the cake.

[Steve McRae]

Emil3d, I think you have hit the nail on the head!

[nitindesign]

I don't know why people keep quoting stuff from the Autodesk pdfs about the world being a better place with rainbows everywhere :deal:

All companies say sweet stuff when they take over another company. Those assurances are not worth crap or the pdf they are typed on.
The fact is that none of us really know what Autodesk will do. One thing is for sure that it's end of an era. Yes Maya users can learn another software if the need arises but that does not mean that we can't moan a bit/lot about our beloved Maya!
Plus I don't understand when people type crap like "be an artist and not a Maya operator" What makes you think that I am not an artist/designer and just a Maya operator?
Yes and Maya is/was more than a software to me. If someone has a problem with that then it's their problem. So please allow me to moan for a bit like a little girl.

[Digit]

Its hard to take someone seriously with emoticons all over the place :)

[nitindesign]

Its hard to take someone seriously with emoticons all over the place :)

I don't know what you are talking about? :thumbsup::):scream::wise::twisted: LOL

[zhangxianzhuo]

I need maya.I don't like max.I don't like autodesk alias. I cried.

[amfantasy]

What is everyone freaking out about, this is a good thing. Two top company's are joining up. it doesn't mean that they are going to stop one. Both are going to remain, everything will still be the same, just now maya and max will work together

p.s. everything is ok as long as they dont stop the linux version :sad:

[CornFielD]

I was really surprised about this merging! but after I gave couple of thought for it I realised that I dont mind at all that AD bought alias.

I have quite strong knowledge of both of the packages and I like em both!

I just hope that avid will remain as a threat for AD, and I believe that it will.

Its really rare that happens negative development, and there is still enough competition to drive development forward, atleast I am looking forward to what´s what will be baking in ADs owen!

I were maya fanboy, and it still is my package of choise, but I have seen enough that I can say that it´s not bad to change team time to time, it opens your eyes (alot !!)

we will see what happens!

[nana313]

bye bye MaYa :sad: :sad: :sad:

:D

Welcome SXI :)

[rebb]

Funny how some ppl use this aquisition as a fake excuse for them jumping ship to XSI - without the ship even sinking..

[westiemad]

*sniff*

perhaps they will kill off max, and although I get the feeling they are just interested in money and nothing else, will inject money into the maya developers

[sacslacker]

It's my estimation that most of those who are saying "I'm jumping to XSI" have neither a significant time or money investment in Maya. I'm not saying all, but most. I have to say that it will take a lot for me to move from Maya. Even if it means being an Autodesk customer again. Not that I dont like XSI. It's just the fact that moving to XSI from Maya is not a reality for me.

[Leonardo Vega]

Obviously anyone with strong ties to Maya will do whatever they can to stay. Those who are less rooted will jump off the ship. I would. I mean, why take the chance unless you have to? Why invest in training if there is a possibility it will be wasted?

No one knows what will happen. All this talk means zippo. But what we do know is that now it's a possibility that Maya can die, be merged with MAX or continue as usual.

I don't see both apps being supported seperately for long. I mean first of all, Autodesk doesn't care much about Maya, so they will not bend over backwards to support it. Second, both apps are very similar, to categorize one as a film tool and one as a game tool is not smart. Both apps I feel are equally powerful and are too similar to seperate them. If Autodesk decides to market MAX as a game tool, then they will just hurt their MAX user base (those who use it for other reasons). You think they will hurt their OWN users? No way... Autodesk has the opportunity to make MAX even more widespread, they won't pass it up.

Obviously it will take time, but I think MAX will slowly absorb Maya. Look at what Alias did to our beloved MotionBuilder. Everyone hated when Alias bought them out. And even though it was a seperate program... entirely different than Maya (unlike Max and Maya... remember these were rivals... that means close competition), you could see the integration with Maya.

If this was such good news for Maya users, they wouldn't have spitted it out the way they did. Who saw it coming?

- Leo

[AA_Tyrael]

Duncan just said that Maya will be aggresively developed for at least 3-4 years and other stuff

His posts are on page 103 :-)

[3DDave]

I would guess that AD would move something to the sub $1000 range to compete in all price ranges, perhaps Maya Complete?

[Leonardo Vega]

That's why I said for *long* :) I know for now it will be, they have no choice. But with time, I doubt they will continue. Also, aggressively develop can mean they will be making Maya, but in it's new form.... Autodesk 3D Studio Maya lol.

My question is... why did Alias sell? If they are so popular in films and successful... why sell? I know for more money, but just seems wierd. I can understand a smaller company being bought out... but Alias?

Oh well... it's going to be wierd.

- Leo

[Leonardo Vega]

3DDave: I wish :) But Autodesk is the stingiest pricer. Max should be $2000 to compete with other price drops, yet it's still $3500.

I wouldn't be surprised if Maya actually ends up costing more due to *new features*.

Autodesk has no motive to drop prices... they bought their main competitor.

- Leo

[Smaw]

The Maya migration tool Avid just implemented for XSI 5.0 looks like a welcoming commitee for Maya refugees :buttrock:

[3DDave]

I would think they would do something to pricing and dropping Maya instead of Max makes more "corporate" sense. Motion Builder will probably stay the same since they don't have anything that competes with that.

Remember Combustion, I think at one time that was $4,000 now it is $995.

Also Alias was owned (bought) by corporate "Investors" and making money was their goal, not great software. I didn't see anything that convinced me to upgrade from MB 6 to 7!

Were any Maya users impressed with the last few upgrades?

[morimitsu]

The Maya migration tool Avid just implemented for XSI 5.0 looks like a welcoming commitee for Maya refugees :buttrock:
This is what I can`t understant.
Why switch app., learn another workflow, invest more time and more money in other software now that Alias got such a great amount of money to invest in R&D?

[Mikkel Jans]

I don't see both apps being supported seperately for long. I mean first of all, Autodesk doesn't care much about Maya, so they will not bend over backwards to support it. Second, both apps are very similar, to categorize one as a film tool and one as a game tool is not smart. Both apps I feel are equally powerful and are too similar to seperate them. If Autodesk decides to market MAX as a game tool, then they will just hurt their MAX user base (those who use it for other reasons). You think they will hurt their OWN users? No way... Autodesk has the opportunity to make MAX even more widespread, they won't pass it up.


I think Autodesk is more interrested in supporting Maya then Max.
Maya users are also Autodesk's users now, and autodesk diden't create 3dMax they bought it like they now have bought Maya.
Maya has a newer core and is easyer to build on, it would make more sence to drop Max and fokus on Maya, but i think neighter is going to happen.
I think both 3d apps will face some hard times untill autodesk get some competition from other apps like XSI. I guess the prices will rise on Maya also.
Maybe they'll create a new 3d app from skratch, as autodesk now own all Alias' patents + Motion builder + alot of talented programmers.. It could be a pretty impressive app.

[SirPhilip]

..Maya users are also Autodesk's users now, and autodesk diden't create 3dMax they bought it like they now have bought Maya.
Precisely why I'm hurling every time I think about what's going to happen to Maya. They'll probably change the logo to something tasteless, purile, or antiseptic, and the Autodesk R&D teams will have a falling out with Alias R&D teams. We won't see any brilliant examples of 3D software advertising again that really get the message across, like um, this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/SirLouis/mayaposter.jpg

[Daniel Whitton]

Maybe with this huge take over and 300 million being used for R + D, instead of fusing the 2, taking both advantages for either platform and developing a new core, from what they say they have now immediate plans to alter either package. I don't know.

[skylight]

:thumbsup: http://www.highend3d.com/articles/columns/4.html

[MasonDoran]

Thanks skylight,,,,that is probably the best and most informative article regarding all of our fears, regardless of software preferances.

[stilgarna]

Thx skylight

[Leonardo Vega]

Good article Skylight! :)

- Leo

[Samo]

Dave brought up a recent acquisition in Autodesk to use as a comparison. He pointed out that when Autodesk acquired Revit (http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=3761844) for the architecture space users felt it was in direct competition with Architectural Desktop (http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=2956700) a product they already owned. "Both teams remained intact, both products remain separate, and grow separately still today". This is a perfect example of a sucessful implementation of just this concept in the 3d space.

Just parole.
Revit and ADT can survive together because they are in fact different.
ADT is an Autocad add-on. ADT capabilities can't go further that Autocad ones.
ADT can't compete against 3rd generation CAD software. Autodesk guys known that and then just bought the best competitor, Revit. :rolleyes:
Revit is a true from-scratch 3rd. generation CAD sofware for Architecture, like ArchiCAD, Allplan, etc.

[Leonardo Vega]

Categorizing both apps for different uses is odd. Ask any MAX user if MAX is mainly just for games. Ask Maya users if Maya is mainly for film. I sure hope they don't push these apps in those specific directions. I saw both apps as all-in-one apps.

I think a Maya with MAX's CAD abilities would be nice :) Thinking about it... *maybe* Maya's price will be dropped since they now are financially able to. Who knows.

- Leo

[Sbowling]

I am SOOOO happy that I just bought XSI instead of Maya!:scream:

[morimitsu]

Ok, I had another thought about Autodesk`s purchase.

The people that invest in Autodesk just want to make more money.
(everybody does, otherwise, how they are supposed to feed their family? - ok, the only ones who don`t care about money may be the guys at blender and wings)

How to make more money?
Selling more products, of course.

Now, if in the future, we don`t like the next version of Maya, Max or the next gen 3d app they will create, are you going to buy it?
No.

The point is: Autodesk MUST update Maya, Max and develop a new gen 3d app really well.
Otherwise, no one will upgrade. No one will buy it. Autodesk will not make money and the investors will be very very furious and the president of Autodesk will be replaced.

So, Autodesk MUST do the right thing. If they don`t make a great job, there was no sense to buy Alias.

It would be too stupid to loose all the Max and Maya user base. Did you get the point?

That said, I`m cool.:)

[nemirc]

Precisely why I'm hurling every time I think about what's going to happen to Maya. They'll probably change the logo to something tasteless, purile, or antiseptic, and the Autodesk R&D teams will have a falling out with Alias R&D teams. We won't see any brilliant examples of 3D software advertising again that really get the message across, like um, this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/SirLouis/mayaposter.jpg

I was actually thinking on getting that logo tatooed on my shoulder, lol.

skylight: thanks for the link, reading it right now :deal:

[Leonardo Vega]

So, Autodesk MUST do the right thing.

Unfortunately... that's not always true. What company doesn't want to make money? But that doesn't mean every company on the market is doing the right thing. The right thing for them might be the wrong thing for us.

Big corps are scary. They are cold hearted. I won't be surprised if Autodesk sells Maya to someone else.

- Leo

[Smaw]

With all the corporate stuff aside, I think one notable problem for Maya is the fact many of the userbase is becoming less and less loyal to the product. Be it the merger, customer support, or the lack of major update, etc, the fact is some of its userbase is getting disgruntled..

This talk of jumping ship wouldn't have been so prevailent if those people were very happy with Alias to begin with. I'm a loyal XSI user and I don't think there'd be as many defectors if Avid was bought about by Autodesk because most Avid userbase is exteremly happy with what they are getting from Avid right now.
I'm not Maya bashing here.. I've been using all three packages(XSI, Maya, Max) in the past three years and I just happen to observe the trend lately..

[butCherHeLL]

11 years experienced programmer (me :)

says..

it will be a good change for MAYA..

maya has the power... it is not company power.

it is programmers power comes since 1996.

and 10 years old experienced programme never finished..

just be sure

IT WILL BE MORE GOOD FOR MAYA



MAYA WILL WINNER..

wait next releases.... you will be more happy than alias one.


MAYA software that we love

http://kursatturkay.port5.com/maya/gallery/images/basketball.jpg

[morimitsu]

maya has the power... it is not company power.

IT WILL BE MORE GOOD FOR MAYA

MAYA WILL WINNER..

wait next releases.... you will be more happy than alias one.



I agree.

`With Autodesk's deeper pockets the Alias divisions should be able to see more budget for R&D and by sharing intellectual property both divisions should be able to develop their products in ways not possible in the past. The bottom line; there will be no Mayax or Maxa in the foreseeable future. There will be no mixed team, no one product development team taking over the other's plans. There will be no major changes to the future of our products as we've seen them aside from working with the suite of Autodesk products much more seamlessly. They will share intellectual property and focus on interoperability not only between the 3d products but with their existing 2d lines. At the end of the day Autodesk will profit whether a buyer chooses Maya or 3ds Max, and maybe in some cases a client will choose both where in the past they would not have.

Regardless of whether or not you think this is a smart business move for either party, I think Maya and Max users can all rest a little easier knowing 3ds Max will remain 3ds Max and Maya will remain Maya...`

[butCherHeLL]

someone maybe dont know this
autodesk is the 1st company in 3Dimension sector.
and autodesk was the first 3D software's company ... of the AUTOCAD....


and it is normally. they wantto be the-one...

because they were best... 10-12 years ago...

I was using autocad.

autodesk won't sell maya to other one.

[morimitsu]

Unfortunately... that's not always true. What company doesn't want to make money? But that doesn't mean every company on the market is doing the right thing. The right thing for them might be the wrong thing for us.

Big corps are scary. They are cold hearted. I won't be surprised if Autodesk sells Maya to someone else.

- Leo

What could be the wrong thing for us?

Why Autodesk would sell Maya?

They said both companies will share intelectual property. Who will make the mistake to buy Maya after that, knowing a competitor (Autodesk) will know their strategy, workflow and tools inside out?

[spurv]

Do you think they would throw the brilliant maya technology away?
And production houses that work with maya (ILM, Dreamworks,etc.)?

Patrice said, in alias roadshow here in Lisbon, that MAX and Maya will merge but it will take sometime, this will be great, the best of the the soft. will come out.

But one thing im sure, interface will be more Maya than MAX.

[morimitsu]

But one thing im sure, interface will be more Maya than MAX.

That´s what I hope. :thumbsup:

[Boone]

I don't want MAX anywhere near my ass!

I'll use XSI or C4D before that happens...

[meagane]

me too, I had to use max. I get sick of it!

[Zakkorn]

Maya users are also Autodesk's users now, and autodesk diden't create 3dMax they bought it like they now have bought Maya.

Autodesk bought Max?? From whom? :/

I always remember 3ds belonging to Autodesk.

[Novak]

Autodesk bought Max?? From whom? :/

I always remember 3ds belonging to Autodesk.

No thats not true.

First it belongs to Kinetix and then to Discreet, now to autodesk.
Probably Kinetix and discreet belong to autodesk for a few years now.
I could be wrong, but the first max I buyt came from kinetix. the second max I buyt was
from Discreet.

[Zakkorn]

I think you confused something.

The 1st 3D Studio made by a group that belonged to Autodesk along time ago.
They made it as an extra aplication to help Architects using AutoCAD do better walkthroughs. That time it was called Autodesk 3D Studio.

After they reached Release 4 (and it wasnt only used for AutoCAD walkthroughs) they jumped to 3D Studio Max 1.0 and the group responsible for 3D Studio renamed to Kinetix. If anyone used 3D Studio Dos before Max, he would know how similar they were and that max just made 3D studio Dos to windows and made them more plugin / script friendly (of course its changed some other things as well :) ). Also Max became much more friendly than its Dos ancestor and had much better animation capabilities.

When 3D studio Max reached 3rd version around that time Autodesk bought Discreet and merged it with Kinetix (responsible for Max) but kept the more famous and powerful (in film and broadcast industry) name, Discreet.
So Max 4 was under the Discreet banner (but the team was still from kinetix, plus some changes). And now Autodesk bored (and after used a lot the Discreet image) decided to renamed everything to just Autodesk (no more other groups).

So NEVER Autodesk bought Max always was its 3D application, just changed the name of the Producer teams. ;)

[Novak]

I think you confused something.

The 1st 3D Studio made by a group that belonged to Autodesk along time ago.
They made it as an extra aplication to help Architects using AutoCAD do better walkthroughs. That time it was called Autodesk 3D Studio.

After they reached Release 4 (and it wasnt only used for AutoCAD walkthroughs) they jumped to 3D Studio Max 1.0 and the group responsible for 3D Studio renamed to Kinetix. If anyone used 3D Studio Dos before Max, he would know how similar they were and that max just made 3D studio Dos to windows and made them more plugin / script friendly (of course its changed some other things as well :) ). Also Max became much more friendly than its Dos ancestor and had much better animation capabilities.

When 3D studio Max reached 3rd version around that time Autodesk bought Discreet and merged it with Kinetix (responsible for Max) but kept the more famous and powerful (in film and broadcast industry) name, Discreet.
So Max 4 was under the Discreet banner (but the team was still from kinetix, plus some changes). And now Autodesk bored (and after used a lot the Discreet image) decided to renamed everything to just Autodesk (no more other groups).

So NEVER Autodesk bought Max always was its 3D application, just changed the name of the Producer teams. ;)


Ok. Than I have it al wrong :D Your explanation looks good. and i believe you.
Didn't thought that way. Anyway It's a bit confusing sometimes.


Greetz, Novak

[Zakkorn]

Its not your fault so dont worry... :)

I just wanted to correct a misinformation that I read in this thread.

And after this, I think Autodesk made a nice job of hidding itself of the creation of Max.

Probably knew how hated it was and did that. :P

My opinion is that made all these name changes to push Max in the industry under a better (cooler?) name.

Kinetix 3D Studio MAX.... Better animation (Kinetix roots from the Greek word Kinisis = Movement)

Discreet 3ds Max.... Better in Special FX (Discreet is famous for its specialfx / composition software)

Autodesk 3ds Max... :P I have no idea why


:)

PS. Btw my previous post wasnt just my explanation of why all these Producer tems name changes but was what really happened. :) because if you noticed I didnt say why hapenned but what happened.

[Kerem]

Guess the creators of 3DS Max bought Maya instead of creating a better 3D software :scream: I really want to see what will happen next. But I pray and pray to God - I hope my favorite 3D Application will not become a 3DS Max !!!

[mlykke]

Guess the creators of 3DS Max bought Maya instead of creating a better 3D software :scream: I really want to see what will happen next. But I pray and pray to God - I hope my favorite 3D Application will not become a 3DS Max !!!

A Max user could say the same.... that they hope thier favorite 3d Application will not become Maya. There are always more angles to a thing like this.

[nemirc]

Guess the creators of 3DS Max bought Maya instead of creating a better 3D software :scream: I really want to see what will happen next. But I pray and pray to God - I hope my favorite 3D Application will not become a 3DS Max !!!

maybe they will buy pixologic :beer:

[mcyorian]

the Exodus to XSI is inminent!!!

so many people are movin´ and me too
ill keep using maya but at the minimal channge on Autodesk way...:twisted:

im actually testing XSI 5....it looks pretty good!

[littlebluerobots]

I have to say, that some people are so narrow minded its amazing that their brains even function...... I use 3ds max, Maya and Xsi all in production, Im in a position to see all the good and bad in these programs, and 80% of the post on here are from people who have not even used max over 6mths in total time, which give them no idea of how buggy max is/ how much "plug ins" you need to "run" it/ how it works with big data sets/ how "old" the core is and if it "needs" a re-write or not.... and any of the other crap thats said to put max down..... I love maya, and its constantly amazing me how much more things I can do with it, but what makes me laugh is when people complain about bugs..... I think the main problem is that discreet/autodesk have improved max so much from version 4 when it was pretty unstable, to 6 where it was as stable as maya... Right now, and I know you wont belive me unless you use both packages and have propper knowledge of them, Max is more stable than maya... I have personally tested it at 2 companies, with brand new machines and fresh installs...so when someone says max is unstable, they have either installed tons of plugins that they "Bought" on it, are running it on windows 98, have hardware problems they dont know about... usually ram, or have a cracked copy.... outside that, if your having problems then contact someone at autodesk who will be happy to help... Max 7.5 is stable as a rock... I have had 12 crashes in the last 6mths of using it in production... Maya... I have lost count how maya crashes I have had, and how much work I have lost due to its lack of decent back up options.... so in a way max's previous buggy ness is now its strength.... I dont want to hear anything about plugins cos all 3d sotfware uses it... we run max at work with zero plugins, if we need oceans we use maya... though they are thinging of getting dreamscape for max..... I love working in 3d and aslo love new innovation, sofar xsi is the one thats currently catching my eye... but what spoils it is the need for people to try to make themselves feel better by putting down another... Its just sad man.....
Ps... if you want to know why max never mad it big in film....... its down to SGI and MS, and max being on windows only..... I hear people saying it to difficult to script in. Its not, you just have to be bothered in the first place.
PEN and Bobo... I commend you for sticking up for a decent peice of kit, you both use Maya as I do and see it merits and are in a position to be able to Judge, unlike so many "3d artists" on the net.

[nemirc]

the Exodus to XSI is inminent!!!

so many people are movin´ and me too
ill keep using maya but at the minimal channge on Autodesk way...:twisted:

im actually testing XSI 5....it looks pretty good!

I don't plan to move a finger till I see Maya 7.5... or even 8.0

If the guys at Autodesk are idiots that "autodesk way" thing will happen... however I don't think they are idiots...

[coop]

I dont want to hear anything about plugins cos all 3d sotfware uses it... we run max at work with zero plugins, if we need oceans we use maya... though they are thinging of getting dreamscape for max..... I love working in 3d and aslo love new innovation, sofar xsi is the one thats currently catching my eye... but what spoils it is the need for people to try to make themselves feel better by putting down another... Its just sad man.....


hey little blue robot- I think I speak from the sector of people that have been repeatedly burned by Max as an animation package. I've used lightwave, cinema4d, maya and max in production and am pretty familiar with their strengths and weaknesses and don't whine about a software issue unless I've really hammered at it for a while. There's a few people that are great at bending max to their will - PEN, Bobo, eek, Michael Comet and a few others.

I've never worked with those guys though and instead have suffered through simple rigs that can't play back in realtime, constant crashing, corrupt files (and autobaks) to where the tool really affected the quality of my work. You're right in that it's foolish to dismiss the strengths of each app, and the models and textures that come out of max are astounding. But in my experience, which clearly is not everyones, which is that of an animator/rigger, I've had nothing but bad times in max.

Mostly this is because of stability of plugins. Maya without mel scripts is woefully underpowered, but with high end 3d, it becomes an incredible package. Max, in my experience, requires a lot of debugging to get plug ins to work. I tried setting up a facial UI last year using Bobo's joystick slider. I mean, great! Someone hacked in translate limits into max. woo hoo. But i never got the thing running. I stripped out all the unnecessary plug ins, but no dice. And that Bobo guy writes good code, so what the heck. In the end, we opted for a simple solution- just animate facial bones by hand since we couldn't get a pose library or slider/attribute set working.

I believe you in that it's a stable package for you, and I wish that were my experience. Mine is using crappy, dumb downed rigs that don't even get realtime feedback. In talking with Discreet and Autodesk about my frustrations (my company was using max at the time until we got too fed up), they came back telling me about new animation features in max 7....Character Studio!!! That despised tool now fully integrated into Max.

So again- I believe your luck with Max, but, sadly, my experience has been one of late nights trying to recover corrupt files, so the reason many of us are bent out of shape about at the merger is because of frustrations with the tools and a sense that autodesk didn't take our frustrations seriously.

[morimitsu]

I don't plan to move a finger till I see Maya 7.5... or even 8.0

If the guys at Autodesk are idiots that "autodesk way" thing will happen... however I don't think they are idiots...

I will not waist my time on other softwares right now, too.
It`s too early to say Alias will sink and other softwares will rule.
I still believe this aquisition will greatly benefit Maya`s grouth.
I still bet in this combo: Alias enginneers plus 300 million dollars of investiment from Autodesk.
By the way, how Maya was born?

[Zakkorn]

By the way, how Maya was born?

I am not sure how, but I know for sure, that is the succesor of Alias / Wavefront PowerAnimator. 8)

[zed3D]

Man, you Maya users have some serious hate towards Max don't you! Hope your developers don't have the same kind of unprofessional attitude or maybe Autodesk won't allocate much R&D money to your team or just butcher your beloved software and give any good stuff to Max, what ever that maybe. for those bashers out there Max CAN do just as good, if not better, work than Maya can. Why better? Because Max users options of tools are far greater with multiple awesome render engines to choose from and amazing polygonal tools. Any of you used Polyboost? Don't see Vray for Maya yet and yet there keeps being these Maya users poking theirs heads in over at the Chaos forums crying for Vray. Same with Polyboost. If Maya is so great why do Maya users keep asking for Max tools?

I'm sure there are amazing Maya tools I would love to have in Max. Maybe now that Autodesk owns both, both apps can benefit from each other; although with the attitudes of some on this Maya board the sharing should be a one way street, to Max's benefit!

zed3D

[nemirc]

If Maya is so great why do Maya users keep asking for Max tools?

If MAX is so great why do MAX users even need VRay along with many other plugins that do even the dumbest things?

[coop]

Man, you Maya users have some serious hate towards Max don't you! Hope your developers don't have the same kind of unprofessional attitude or maybe Autodesk won't allocate much R&D money to your team or just butcher your beloved software and give any good stuff to Max, what ever that maybe. for those bashers out there Max CAN do just as good, if not better, work than Maya can. Why better? Because Max users options of tools are far greater with multiple awesome render engines to choose from and amazing polygonal tools. Any of you used Polyboost? Don't see Vray for Maya yet and yet there keeps being these Maya users poking theirs heads in over at the Chaos forums crying for Vray. Same with Polyboost. If Maya is so great why do Maya users keep asking for Max tools?

I'm sure there are amazing Maya tools I would love to have in Max. Maybe now that Autodesk owns both, both apps can benefit from each other; although with the attitudes of some on this Maya board the sharing should be a one way street, to Max's benefit!

zed3D

actually, I was speaking from the perspective of being an animator/rigger, and my frustrations with the lack of development in those areas relative to other packages. Whenever I mention that in production, I've had issues and concerns with max, the response is always that max is a great polygonal modeller. When I talked with autodesk about frustrations in character setup, the answer I got back from them was an email about how great the new normal mapping tools were. This doesn't mean I have "the hate on" or am unprofessional. It just means that I've found it to be a less effective tool for my specific needs. In fact, last year all the Activision studios me with reps from autodesk and voiced issues they had with the software. The response was basically that they weren't planning on addressing the issues that many studios had, so we switched packages.

Clearly both packages have their strengths and weaknesses and I hope this merger will help boost the weaknesses of both packages.

[morimitsu]

If MAX is so great why do MAX users even need VRay along with many other plugins that do even the dumbest things?

If Max so good, why buy Alias?
Why keep copying Maya`s features?

[geothefaust]

What in-house technologies do C4D or Lightwave have to offer XSI users, which Soft couldn't implement on their own if they chose to?

thorn

Haven't read all the posts so I'm not sure if someone else already cleared this up...

Newtek is privately owned and can not be purchased in that fashion. :)

I am a Lightwave user that switched from Max, to Maya, then eventually to LW... I must say, It is a bit shocking to hear this. We'll see what they eventually do with Maya, I know they said they would keep it as a seperate application. But I just can't see them doing that.

[Bobo]

If MAX is so great why do MAX users even need VRay along with many other plugins that do even the dumbest things?

For the same reason Maya connects with prMan and Mental Ray. Options. Choices. :)
You can use the software renderer in both Maya and Max in production, if you want...
I worked on a shot for a movie last year where Vray proved to handle half of the shot faster, but had problems with the massive geometry of an heavily fragmented explosion in the end of the shot. Brazil, while a bit slower, handled that second part nicely. So we ended up using both in the same shot. There were even some frames where the diffuse pass was Brazil and the specular pass was Vray. Seamless. I liked having the option.
(btw, Frantic Films has liceneses of Brazil, Vray, prMan, Entropy, Gelato, mental ray, and we use the software renderers of Max and Maya when appropriate.) Having renderer choices is good. Having less choices (XSI ;)) - not so good.
That must be the reason so many Maya users are happy that Brazil, VRay and finalRender are coming their way... If you are not, sorry for the intrusion.

[morimitsu]

If they keep developing Maya and Max for the next 5 years, the future of these softwares will be excellent with knowledge exchange from the both companies and the investments they are going to do.
I think the biggest challenge for Autodesk will be the next gen software they will write.
(They have the tools, the right guys and plenty of money to do it)
Eventually if they write it, they have to make sure Maya`s and Max`s users will like it`s workflow. That is the biggest challenge I guess.
Because, if they don`t, users will switch to other softwares.
At least the hobbists, students and freelancers. Because the big studios will use the best software they can afford anyway.
What do you think?

[MunCHeR]

My guess is that the next gen software, when it comes about will be too expensive for hobbysist, what happened to max's price point while alias and xsi dropped their prices to an affordable level? nothing!!! :shrug:

MunCH

[Dialector]

Even if they stopped developing Maya. The current package can do 1000 times more than I have the talent and know how to achieve. Im sure that I will always be able to find a solution to my needs even with the current version. So no matter what happens I will be happy with whatever tools I wind up having. Im kind of glad Im not so vastly talented that I am contantly exceeding the capabilities of Maya, thus desperately needing Maya to improve regularly. Sometimes, mediocrity is an advantage.

[Steve McRae]

For me the big thing that Maya lacks is unlimited render nodes for MR.

That would be huge.

[zed3D]

My comments were not directed at you coop.

They were directed at Maya users like nemirc who obviously thinks Maya is the be all and end all of all 3D software. Ignorance breeds contempt and that is definetly the case with many a Maya user on this board. Nemirc if Vray sucks so bad why do so many Maya users want it so bad?

The attitude of your post says everything I need to say about alot of the Maya posts I have read on this board and confirms the comments I made in my earlier post. Max is a great peice of software. So is Maya. But, really does it matter? What matters is what you can produce!

Steve: Max 8 will have unlimited MR nodes. Maybe Maya will inherit this sometime in the future, now being owned by Autodesk.

zed3D

[nemirc]

They were directed at Maya users like nemirc who obviously thinks Maya is the be all and end all of all 3D software. Ignorance breeds contempt and that is definetly the case with many a Maya user on this board. Nemirc if Vray sucks so bad why do so many Maya users want it so bad?

Quote any post of mine where I said that VRay sucks balls, or refrain from posting at all.

[nemirc]

I know they said they would keep it as a seperate application. But I just can't see them doing that.

I have the same problem. However Autodesk has many architectural applications as well so I don't think that keeping 2 3D apps would be much of a problem :shrug:

[Boone]

OMG, this really turning into another "love/hate" starwars thread... :rolleyes:

It really comes down to which one you are most comfortable using. If you tried both and favour one over the other - thats the end of it.

I personally can't stand MAX and feel that Maya is the better product, but it doesn't change the fact that fantastic work can be done with MAX. It's users prove this, while Maya's users prove that Maya can also produce equally wonderful results.

Different folks, different tastes. :hmm:

[nemirc]

OMG, this really turning into another "love/hate" starwars thread... :rolleyes:

It really comes down to which one you are most comfortable using. If you tried both and favour one over the other - thats the end of it.

I personally can't stand MAX and feel that Maya is the better product, but it doesn't change the fact that fantastic work can be done with MAX. It's users prove this, while Maya's users prove that Maya can also produce equally wonderful results.

Different folks, different tastes. :hmm:

Starwars rocks! :beer: Screw star trek :twisted:

[zed3D]

nemirc- If MAX is so great why do MAX users even need VRay along with many other plugins that do even the dumbest things?

What does this mean then?

You just don't have a response and are playing the 2 year old game of repeat what I say.

Besides that, I never said Max was so great it didn't need other render engines other than what comes stock (MR and the scanline). Different artists have different needs and Max gives them the flexibility to get the right tool for the job, as Bobo pointed out above.

Nemirc I'm not going to play the pompous superiority game like you and many others on this forum because intelligent artists use the tools at hand to get the job done. I can imagine what an employer would say if you sat down in front of a computer and refused to do the job because you had to use lowly Max. Out the door!

Whatever!

zed3D

[nemirc]

nemirc-

What does this mean then?

You just don't have a response and are playing the 2 year old game of repeat what I say.

Read again pliz:

If MAX is so great why do MAX users even need VRay along with many other plugins that do even the dumbest things?


If my eyes don't deceive me I was talking about MAX,not VRAY...
I am not trying to be intelligent, but at least this 2 year old can read, unlike some others around here.

[morimitsu]

Ok, what if we try to make this thread positive?
Both companies will exchange intelectual property, so, what tools or workflow do you think Alias engineers could get from Max?

[nemirc]

Ok, what if we try to make this thread positive?
Both companies will exchange intelectual property, so, what tools or workflow do you think Alias engineers could get from Max?

The polymodeling tools.
I can't say anything about NURBS or Subdivs since even in Maya I don't use them.

And I can't say anything about the animation tools either since I completely dislike them (please note, personal opinion).

[zed3D]

If MAX is so great why do MAX users even need VRay along with many other plugins that do even the dumbest things?

Well, this sentence reads: " . . . Vray along with many other plug-ins that do even the dumbest things?"

If that doesn't say that, "Vray does the dumbest things?", then I guess I haven't been speaking English all my life and haven't received a 2nd year university english level. Regardless, simply an ignorant statement that has no basis in fact.

Read my other post about Max and plug-ins.

Repeat and rinse!

zed3D

[coop]

The polymodeling tools.
I can't say anything about NURBS or Subdivs since even in Maya I don't use them.

And I can't say anything about the animation tools either since I completely dislike them (please note, personal opinion).


I'm curious, as I've used both packages and at this point am much faster at poly modelling in maya. It seems like poly modelling is pretty similar amongst most packages these days. What does max have in regard to poly modelling that maya doesn't have?

[poly-gone]

Actually, Maya 7 has most of the poly-tools that 3ds max 7 does... (though Maya lacks that slick Shell modifier). In fact, I find poly-modelling much easier in Maya than I used to in max... and I'd been using max for a long time...

With 3ds max, every modifier/tool is presented to you directly in the modifier list, but in Maya you need to figure out how to do what you want to do. That's why a lot of max people find Maya's workflow so difficult to grasp in the beginning.

Once you've gotten used to Maya's workflow, there's simply no limit. This, of course, applies to just about any app.

[nemirc]

coop: The tools are pretty much the same, but when I have to model buildings and stuff like that I find it a lot easier to use shapes in MAX because I can use bezier corners. In Maya if you want to make a corner in a NURBS curve you have to add extra CVs to make it work. It's a personal thing but I'd like to be able to use bezier curves when I am modeling.

I remember there was a tool that did just that but I don't know if it's still being developed.

zed3D: I don't remember asking about your degrees but thanks. I am sure that will prove to be a lifesaver in the near future :thumbsup:

poly-gone: Funny. I find MAX to be faster to model... but slower for everything else :banghead: (including tool responses and viewport feedback).

[zed3D]

nemirc - Clearly you want to make this a personal attack. Very mature. How old are you 15? If not you better ask yourself some serious questions! To bad the liking of a software package so blinds you. Very odd!:rolleyes: Hope you don't walk around out of this forum with that kind of attitude. You're going to make life hard for yourself.

zed3D

[butCherHeLL]

dear nemirc,
we love maya.
if I were interest max. I would look to max forums.
so this means you interest maya.
if you like max. use max.

:D

Autodesk will be good for a better development for maya.
because maya will be better than ever.day by day.

so when wavefront history closed.... is maya finished ?

just dream about.....

or better... learn maya.... learning maya is not easy as max. because it is more complex :)
means more options.more flexible....bla.bla.....

not to try confuse us becauseeEEEee........->
http://img427.imageshack.us/img427/5476/basketball2cb.jpg

[Kerem]

Guys guys ! Come on !!! You are just hurting the feelings of each other. Everyone of us knows the happiness after making our first renders with a new and hard-to-learn program. :) I know learning a program is techinal matter - but working with a program and creating something you dream about is something emotional... Some of you can find it stupid - but I believe this. Thats why we are defending our favorite softwares with excite.

Also this arguments are all in vain ! Everyone knows the best 3D package in the market is Cinema 4D !!! :scream:

[Andrei2k]

I think Maya can only benefit from Max poly Primitives LOL.

[nemirc]

butCherHeLL: If I liked MAX I would be in the MAX forum instead of bitching about the Maya users ;)


zed3D: In my country we call it sarcasm, not personal attack. It all boils down to one simple thing: me saying one thing and you saying that I said something completely different. I never said VRay sucks and yet you insist on saying that I did say so (geez, I had never said "say" so many times). If you want to think that I think VRay sucks you are free to do so, I don't care.

The thing here is that a lot of Maya users around here know that Maya is superior than MAX for the kind of work that we do. If MAX users don't like that then that's not my problem either. I was a MAX user till version 3 but then I began reading a lot of good stuff about Maya and Softimage but since Maya was the one to first cross my path I decided to stick with it (personally I don't have time to try out a bunch of demos till I find the one that "I like"). I even went back to MAX on version 6 and I was shocked when I saw that animation stuff like character studio was almost intact (save for a few more buttons and some hidden new features).

Up till now I've used MAX, Shade and Maya and I still think that Maya is superior than the other two save for some minor modeling tools (like Shade's metaobjects modeling).

Some people say that XSI is better than Maya and I respect that because I have never used XSI so I can't say whether or not that's true, however from my personal POV Maya is better suited than MAX for some kind of work... and if you don't like my oppinion that's not my problem either because I will continue using Maya till I find a good reason to switch apps (such as X company telling me that I have to use LW or something like that instead).

And as a bottom line, VRay does not suck. I hope I make myself clear this time.




And the hell with all this. I am going back to Raydream studio :beer:

[soshiant]

I was thinking the exact same thing... What was the download size of that XSI demo? :beer:



Personally I don't see any reason why I should feel happy about this. Take a look at what they wrote in the FAQ:



So you are telling me that they spendd 300 millions in R&D and yet they can't make a 3D app that can do decent work without the help of tons of plugins? MAX is a good modeler but that's pretty much it, you still have to get the plugin for fire, water, particle simulations, cloth simulation, hair simulation, shatter generators, tree generators... yesh! the only plugin I ever used in Maya is something known as "syflex" ;)

:banghead:
:banghead:
:banghead:


Cman: I was wondering that myself and I even LOOKED FOR THAT DATE somewhere in the page :cry_

ADSk only produces 3DS MAX?This is not fair!!Be prepared for a new program, certainly diff from 3DS and better than maya. why not?

[nemirc]

why is it not fair?

[terje]

I have been using Autodesk products for years (Autocad, Inventor,...) as a sysadmin, and I know what problems we have with these products. I am not very happy with this Autodesk Maya thing. I have been very pleased with maya, and I am not sure that Autodesk will have anything good too come up with.

[soshiant]

why is it not fair?
"So you are telling me that they spendd 300 millions in R&D and yet they can't make a 3D app that can do decent work without the help of tons of plugins?"

ADSK bought Alias for ...$???
And having 3rd party partners is good.I mean it is very good!!this way u dont have to wait untill next release for new features.
As far as i know u need plugs for maya too, and as a MAX user I rarely use plugs and
max 8 is stable (until now). :)

[Andrei2k]

ADSk only produces 3DS MAX?This is not fair!!Be prepared for a new program, certainly diff from 3DS and better than maya. why not?

Uhhm why not?? Well lets start with a list.

1. For starters two large user groups don't want to and shouldnt have to be forced to learn completely new software.
2. As a Maya user I dont want the terminology in tools to change and interface logic to change. (Same applies to Max users I bet)
3. All of the studios that have one of two packages in pipeline would have to re-do their pipelines and R&D which from a business point of view makes everyone mad because you feel forced to shell out money for new software THEN fo all the things i mentioned = losing customers that will move to alternative software.
4. To some its like compromising heaven and hell. So in that scenario where do you end up??
5. The most important reason of all. Time. Everyone loses time and when you lose time you lose money unless you do 3D as a hobby.

There are others but those are the big ones.

[December]

Ok, what if we try to make this thread positive?
Both companies will exchange intelectual property, so, what tools or workflow do you think Alias engineers could get from Max?

DWG Import native in ADSK Maya 8.0? That would be so useful for companies like ours that uses a lot of AutoCAD.

[Andrei2k]

*Sigh* DWG/DXF is native as a standard plugin you just gotta enable it. I wish people would know the software well enough to offer suggestions at time. I don't mean to put anyone on the spot but it happens too often and gets people to believe that what someone thinks is missing actually is missing and spreads false information.

[December]

*Sigh* DWG/DXF is native as a standard plugin you just gotta enable it. I wish people would know the software well enough to offer suggestions at time. I don't mean to put anyone on the spot but it happens too often and gets people to believe that what someone thinks is missing actually is missing and spreads false information.

There speaks a non AutoCAD users! Have you ever actually tried that plugin.. it's pretty messy. Can only be used for really simple AutoCAD files.. and even makes a mess of those! Try importing a shopping center floorplan with a large number of layers and see what happens.

Trust me, I've tried every which way to get it to work better.. we use AutoCAD on a daily basis and it's hard work having to go via a 3rd party format to get my floorplans into Maya.

It might be usable if you are also doing all your own AutoCADs from scratch, but that is rarely the case, and getting them to state where they will import OK is often impossible.

3D Max however had a much more user-friendly DWG importer.

I guess I should re-phrase my original statement:

Hopefully now that they are both owned by the same company, I would like to see a significantly more compatible and user friendly DWG importer in Maya, closer to the one in 3D Max or even better :)

[morimitsu]

Uhhm why not?? Well lets start with a list.

1. For starters two large user groups don't want to and shouldnt have to be forced to learn completely new software.
2. As a Maya user I dont want the terminology in tools to change and interface logic to change. (Same applies to Max users I bet)
3. All of the studios that have one of two packages in pipeline would have to re-do their pipelines and R&D which from a business point of view makes everyone mad because you feel forced to shell out money for new software THEN fo all the things i mentioned = losing customers that will move to alternative software.
4. To some its like compromising heaven and hell. So in that scenario where do you end up??
5. The most important reason of all. Time. Everyone loses time and when you lose time you lose money unless you do 3D as a hobby.

There are others but those are the big ones.

It can be good or it can be bad.
Power Animator´s successor, Maya, was a big success.
On the other hand, Softimage lost many users/studios to Maya, and XSI took a long time to start to make a difference.
Next gen soft really need to revolutionize, just like Maya did.
I think this is true, otherwise, other companies didn´t have to copy so many features and workflow from Maya.
Why studios have chosen Maya instead of XSI is a secret Autodesk need to know before they even start to think to create a new 3d soft gen.

[nemirc]

On the other hand, Softimage lost many users/studios to Maya, and XSI took a long time to start to make a difference.

Now that you say this I have to ask why did softimage lost users if the sucessor is supposedly to be better than the first one.

[morimitsu]

I don´t know exactly why, but it did.
Many studios that used to use Softimage 3D switched to Maya, instead of XSI.
The only thing I know is that Maya is the Main 3d software used in film, and not XSI.
Why? This is what Autodesk need to know. If they get this answer, they can start to think in creating the next gen soft. I hope they find out!:)

[nemirc]

I don´t know exactly why, but it did.
Many studios that used to use Softimage 3D switched to Maya, instead of XSI.
The only thing I know is that Maya is the Main 3d software used in film, and not XSI.
Why? This is what Autodesk need to know. If they get this answer, they can start to think in creating the next gen soft. I hope they find out!:)

It's a good thing they also bought the guys that supposedly know the answer since they make the program :p

[kap13]

Many of you guys are talking about switching. However, if I need to switch I need to be able to convert my characters to the softwares native format. Does xsi offer native compatablity with maya or somthing? As this seems to be the option you lot are thinking of taking. xsi would be very annoying for me to start using as the pipeline i use is mac for modeling and animation and then pc for rendering. With xsi i would have to go back to a windows work station. I enjoy working in maya and have never used Max, I have seen some nice stuff come from it but know nothing of the interface. Will mayas interface change?
I read an post on this thread that said maya will be more focused for film and animation now and 3ds max for games. Is this true? I wouldent mind this at all.
Thanks guys

[Lyr]

I wouldn't switch till Autodesk announces that Maya development has been halted. Which they have not done. And even if they did one of the last packages I would look to is XSI. Go look at what Sidefx is doing with Houdini if you want to see a truly powerful workflow.

[nitindesign]

... one of the last packages I would look to is XSI. Go look at what Sidefx is doing with Houdini if you want to see a truly powerful workflow.

Just curious why you say that about XSI? Is it due to their small market share or just the work flow of the software in general?

Yeah Houdini looks nice from what I have read about it although the price tag is too much for a one man shop...$17,000 USD for the master package compared to Maya unlimited at $7000.

Anyway I think (hope) that Maya will be around for a long time :thumbsup:

[JasonA]

I didn't read through the whole thread to see if this was already posted but...

Now that Autodesk owns Maya, does anyone have a clue as to whether or not Maya will get to have unlimited mr render nodes like 3ds max currently does? I sure hope that Maya gets to enjoy some of these arrangements that the 3ds max users have..

[Buexe]

I talked to a guy recently who is very deep into the XSI API
and he told me that Maya`s API is much more powerful in that
it let`s you add stuff deeper inside the program. Maybe he meant
custom data types/nodes/custom matrices or whatever. Maybe
that is a point why studios favour Maya over XSI.

Just an educated guess, don`t shoot me if I`m wrong.

[roger3d]

I don´t know exactly why, but it did.
Many studios that used to use Softimage 3D switched to Maya, instead of XSI.
The only thing I know is that Maya is the Main 3d software used in film, and not XSI.
Why? This is what Autodesk need to know. If they get this answer, they can start to think in creating the next gen soft. I hope they find out!:)

What I heard is that by the time Maya launched, XSI was not production ready yet.
And at that time studios used to use NURBS objects and as everybody knows Maya is the king of NURBS and on the other hand, XSI has a poor implementation of it.
Now that more and more people are using polys/subds, this does not count that much anymore.

Is there anybody with another clue?

[dantea]

What I heard is that by the time Maya launched, XSI was not production ready yet. And at that time studios used to use NURBS objects and as everybody knows Maya is the king of NURBS and on the other hand, XSI has a poor implementation of it.
Now that more and more people are using polys/subds, this does not count that much anymore. Is there anybody with another clue?

Most of the the release date info is on the web for anyone to check.

1998 - Maya 1.0 released
2000 - XSI 1.0 released

So saying that XSI was "not production ready" when Maya was launched is a supreme understatement as it wasn't released!

[roger3d]

Most of the the release date info is on the web for anyone to check.

1998 - Maya 1.0 released
2000 - XSI 1.0 released

So saying that XSI was "not production ready" when Maya was launched is a supreme understatement as it wasn't released!

Ok, I got another `secret` I read somewhere in a success book.
It said that you need to be the first.
Nobody remembers the second place.
Who is the first person that went to the moon? You may remmember his name.
But who was the second one? ...

So, this may answer this 2 years later XSI release.
Autodesk needs to be fast, easier, kick a..., revolutionize the 3D market 2 years before competition!:)
Or they will eat dust and struggle to be the second one. Just like XSI...

[nemirc]

Who is the first person that went to the moon? You may remmember his name.
But who was the second one? ...

Don't remember ;)

All I remember is that they all say that travel to the moon was a fake :D

[kap13]

Who is the first person that went to the moon? You may remmember his name.
But who was the second one? ...

Buzz Aldrin

[Mobjack]

As I was told just before they annouced that there would be layoffs where I work:

"There is change you can change and there is change you cannot change. This is change you cannot change, so it's how you deal with this change that's important."

The Maya community has always been very vocal and Alias has listened to the concerns and needs of that community. Perhaps with the combination of talent from both Autodesk and Alias we will benefit by getting a more improved Maya rather than a combo of Max and Maya. Someone said in an earlier post that the industry is changing rapidly. As a result, the tools we use will change as well. Surely Autodesk will not be so stupid as to allow a product like Maya to be changed into or integrated with Max. If they really spend that much money on R&D, then Maya will remain its own entity in the 3D community.

My 2 cents. :)

Tripp

[Digit]

Ok, I got another `secret` I read somewhere in a success book.
It said that you need to be the first.
Nobody remembers the second place.


Thats nonsense! Was Google the first search engine? Ipod the first mp3 player?

[mcyorian]

too long discussion!!!

just assimilate AUTODESK MAYA....thats all!!

XSI, 3dmax, and the rest keep on second place 4 ever!

:buttrock:maya RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOCKSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[amfantasy]

I agree with the guy above, autodesk isnt dumb, they are not going to change maya into max, so I feel you can all breathe easy

[CHRiTTeR]

I'm quite sure both teams will continue to do their best at improving their app., coz it's not like the Discreet dev. team is gonna take it all over now. I think theres still some patriotic feeling left in both dev. teams, thus some fighting to deliver the best tools. And if it isnt like that and they will work together then that's also a good thing in my eyes. Then both apps get improved by the 2 best teams in the bizz!

Yeah, I'm an optimist, I cant help it, sorry. :D



And yes, I'm a max user. Im not good at it or anything, but I how it works and I'm also sure it has some stuff that is better then in Maya. Same thing counts for maya, I'm sure it has a lot of stuff that is better then in Max (Nurbs for example). But wouldnt it be cool that both teams can use eachothers technologie? Get the best of both sides? Why thinks so bad so soon? Just wait and see what will happen. All those who are turning to XSI, Houdini or whatever just because Autodesk bought Alias? Well, thats just plain stupid. They just do that because they take the compitition between Autodesk and Alias personal, for no special reason. Why do so much maya users always have to act like this?
You like maya better then Max, good for you, go work with maya and show some respect if someone else prefers to work with another app. Maya will stay u know. Maybe they will fuse both apps (I'd like that) but still then, it'll take quite some time before that fusion is finished.

Thumbs up for the few maya-users here wo can accept to see that this actually can be a verry good move for both users.
Sure, discr... euh, autodesk could screw it up, but we dont know that yet, do we?

We dont know what this will take uss to, we'll have to wait what direction they are taking and then we can deside if this has turned in a good thing and follow them or a bad thing for me, you ... us! and hope we find a good alternative... We're in same boat you know... ;)

Now let us pray... peace!

[FrozenSun]

Well maybe some have a sense of betrayed or something, i do not know. But i have been a Maya user for a few years now. I first begin in Cinema 4D (and still use it)and i tried Max, but did not really like it because it really did not suit me. Then i tried out Maya (it was version 5) and loved it. I know use version 6.5 Unlimited and it is truly something that Max can not come near.. well since they bought Alias this i guess is not true. The main problem for me about Max is you have to purchase so many plugins to achieve what Alias can do.
For instance fluids and hair and fur. Maya has all of these (well Maya Unlimited anyhow) and they are awesome. And i love Paint Effects. So maybe Autodesk wants to integrate the fluid technology or even Paint Effects into Max. I do not know, i hope not. And i had been thinking of buying XSI (even before i purchased Maya) as i believe it is on the same level as Maya, and it's fluids are much better. But will i be switching? Not really, this would be too costly, and i would like to see what happens first between Alias and Autodesk. If something absolutely horrible happens to Maya, then you can always switch to XSI.

~ Dam, and i was planning on going for a tour at Alias in Toronto. So much for that :(