3d Modeling: A Creative or Technical Skill?

[Y0da]

Let's see now. Would you call traditional painters copycats or creative? They are after all just recreating that which they see. It may be a dream or a still life or something they imagine. But it still excisted prior to the painting. In the same manner I don't think 3d artists are just imitating. I think a lot of personal style ends up in the model and texture. A concept is just an idea after all. It takes a true artist to bring that idea to life. Just my 2c. ;)

[Segvoia]

Challenger, I believe you have two topics going here: being a creative person and trying to be creative under the constraints of "production" work. Well actually three - and is 3d modeling actually creative.

There is a compromise when you are hired to do a piece as oppose to just making it for yourself, because you are almost always dealing with someone elses concept, no matter what your position is on the pipeline. Creativity can be diminished to various degrees, sometimes to the point that you are only doing grunt work :banghead: not just in 3d, but any artistic field.

Looking at modeling from a purely artistic point of veiw, I have to say I see it as yes, highly creative. There are decisions made in the modeling process such as where to increase polys or how much detail to add to a surface that require craft. The issue of imitation (the second part of the definition) is moot in my opinion, because most art copies life to some extent, a person's style and design decisions are what make the piece "creative".

As to modeling being "technical" any art has it's technique...from - digital painting to modeling with clay - there are tools and steps that are followed to reach a sucessful end.

So I vote yes, modeling is a creative technique :thumbsup:

[ekah]

Okay, I had a debate about what is creative and what is not in terms of 3d modeling with somebody just the other day and it got me thinking.

Before I go any further, I looked up the word “creative” on Merriam-Webster Online and it is defined as:
1 : marked by the ability or power to create : given to creating <the creative impulse>
2 : having the quality of something created rather than imitated : IMAGINATIVE <the
creative arts>

Based on the first definition, I think the answer is yes to all. I think it's creative because you would have created something that didn't exist before.

"Someone else's creative imagination" can often mean imitating something that already exists in real life. Does that make it not creative? Photography does exactly that. Not only does it not imitate, it duplicates. Is it less creative?

I think the question you are really asking is about individual creative freedom versus team work, and the degree of what is made up and what isn't. What would you consider creative? Is film making or game development a creative work? I think they are. Would you say that the director is more creative than anyone else involved in making the film? I don't think so. You could have a team of creative people working towards the same goal. Is this form less creative than a lone artist who paints or sculpts? I don't think so.

A concept artist (based on your description) probably works his/her ideas based on another person's idea (examples: director/producer/art director). You will then model based on the concept drawings handed to you. Texture artists then create textures based the models handed to them. This may sound like a hierarchy of who's more creative, but in fact, the final model cannot exist without any one element. I think those that are called technical artists (contradictory to its label) in those environment are also creative. Same goes for programmers.

I will tell you what isn't creative. Those who are at the receiving end of your final model, the viewer. I am not talking about texture artists or even people who approve your model, they actually are part of the creative team. I'm talking about the audience/viewers, or the users the final product (if it's a product).

[jais]

I think the two terms a tightly wowen together.
If you dont possess the technical skills you are not able to express your ideas. And that is not specific to 3d. Thats the same with a traditional artist. They can have the finest and wierdest ideas that could really invite you into their realm of imagination but if they cant express and develop it through the media in which they work you cant call them artists.
Artists needs a media in which they can grow and examine their ideas. And its their technical capabilities over that media that decides how much in control of their idea they are.
I think the creativity is then making the right decision in the process through a project.
And here the technical abilities helps you being able to actually realize those decisions.

[Smartypants]

Well, here's my $0.02. I think modelling can be creative, but there are times when it's a technical exercise or technical execution. For example, I consider a precise model of a 1965 Mustang to be a technical exercise. You're not really bringing a new idea into the world, you're exerting your skill to make a 3D representation of something that already exists.

However, if you were to create some sort of car or vehicle that has never been seen before, that doesn't already exist, I consider that to be creative. Your car design is new and unique.

Modelling is sculpting. You can sculpt anything you want. You can go the route of Henry Moore and deconstruct the figure in a series of expressive models, if you like.

However, a lot of the time, production calls for precise models of things that already exist. The buildings of New York have been modelled many times for various movies. The process you employ or the skills you utilize can be creative, but the model isn't anything new. There are shades of gray, of course; The movie Madagascar and the movie Day After Tomorrow both contain digital representations of New York City. However, both take vastly different stylistic approaches. I consider this to be creative too. So it's a gray, hair splitting area.

[lordpenoy]

i do i agree with your arguement but i also think that you need those two description to faithfully become a modeller you must be creatively skillfull :) ...

[erilaz]

Creativity isn't just in banging out a concept, it's the process you use to achieve a goal. You need technical skill to do almost ANYTHING, but you have to have creativity to make it or the process you used to make it unique.

[Schwinnz]

Any skill is firstly technical and, when mastered, turns into a creative outlet.

[ynvamsi]

3d modeling, Emmm....:hmm: ,It's a mix of creativity and technical. But,I think,in 3d modeling process,we have to be more creative(:lightbulb) than technical.

[smackbringer]

I think 3D modeling has more in common with sculpture. Nobody argues that sculptors aren't creative. In sculpture, you start out with some ideas and a concept drawing. Thats where the creative process is in gear. Then you have to mold or chisel or bake or whatever, but thats the technical process. There are times when you say, hey pouring this liquid into a mold is not creative at this point in time. But you need to look at the big picture. The basic creative process is thought, concept, technical execution, refinement, finished product. So how is 3D modeling any different? I would have to argue that modeling that mustang is still creative as long as you're not designing it from blueprints as you would in autocad, then thats just punching in numerical data which requires no choices to be made by you the artist.

[CGmonkey]

Creativity isn't just in banging out a concept, it's the process you use to achieve a goal. You need technical skill to do almost ANYTHING, but you have to have creativity to make it or the process you used to make it unique.

That, I don't agree with at all, just because you do SOMETHING doesn't mean that it's "creaitivity".

[bearfoot]

Any skill is firstly technical and, when mastered, turns into a creative outlet.

quoted for agreement

[erilaz]

That, I don't agree with at all, just because you do SOMETHING doesn't mean that it's "creaitivity".

Well yes, doing something is not necessarily creative, but anything can be done creatively. For example, frying an egg is a technical skill. Not exactly a creative outlet. However, if you fry the same egg while experimenting with adding additional content, that's being creative with a technical skill.
It's the same with modelling. Modelling a car is a technical skill, but you combine the use of splines, patches, box modelling etc. in your own fashion. That's being creative with your technical skillset. Not many people model exactly the same way unless they're following a tutorial.
Even maths is creative. Given a problem there are many technical ways to solve something, but it's a creative process to use those skills to your best advantage.

[bearfoot]

frying an egg ISNT a technical skill u see ... everyone can fry an egg given the tools
NOT everyone can model a 3d something given the tools..



thats maybe the point here dude..

[erilaz]

frying an egg ISNT a technical skill u see ... everyone can fry an egg given the tools
NOT everyone can model a 3d something given the tools..



thats maybe the point here dude..

Yes, everyone can fry an egg, but not everyone can do it well. Everyone can model something in 3d and not do it well. Skill is usually required in even the simplest tasks.
But that is not the point I was making. Skill is skill, bad or good. Creativity is using skills in a unique or varied way. Drawing is a skill we are born with. We hone that skill over a lifetime, but what we do with the pencil is the creative process.

I guess all i'm saying is anything can be done creatively. Not everything should or will be, but it can be. Modelling on a whole is a technical skill, but it is used creatively more often than not.

[bearfoot]

sorry mate i dont agree

not everyone can make a 3d model...

i couldnt when i first started 3d ... its impossible to be creative in CG arts field which is what we ae referring to afterall without a skill level to carry out that creativity..

i think...:shrug:

[CGmonkey]

Yes, everyone can fry an egg, but not everyone can do it well. Everyone can model something in 3d and not do it well. Skill is usually required in even the simplest tasks.
But that is not the point I was making. Skill is skill, bad or good. Creativity is using skills in a unique or varied way. Drawing is a skill we are born with. We hone that skill over a lifetime, but what we do with the pencil is the creative process.

I guess all i'm saying is anything can be done creatively. Not everything should or will be, but it can be. Modelling on a whole is a technical skill, but it is used creatively more often than not.

Just because you're doing something doesn't mean you're creative. You can use the tools creativly but in the end what you're doing is not being creative. it's two different things.

A carpenter can be creative with a chainsaw and rebuild it to a furnice, but in the end.. making a chair from a blueprint handed down to you is not what I define as "being cretive". That's craftmanship.

[superlayer]

So does that mean that mona lisa isnt a creative painting because the artist painted it from looking at a person?

What about a sculpture from ancient greece who used a human reference was he not creative because he sculpted from something?

Modeling is the same thing. Unless ur reference is very precise and perfect like car refs I would say some degree of creativity always goes into it.

But if we are talking ideas then thats another ballgame.

Personally I was always very good with ideas and only recently did I decide to add to my skillset with 3d modeling etc.

For me its a way to visualise my ideas. Its a way to sculpt and create worlds and characters and things from my imagination.

Even concept artists are often drawing from a different kind of references. They use the ideas and descriptions of the gamedesigners to visualize their characters.

So does it mean they arent creative either?

I think every layer of creation that takes place from thought to finalized game is noteworthy.
Ideas, concepts, scripts, modeling, texturing etc etc.

[Zeicon]

Creativity is using skills in a unique or varied way.
There are several definitions... to simply create something is also to be creative. That's why it's called creative.

making a chair from a blueprint handed down to you is not what I define as "being cretive".
Yes, creating a chair is being creative :>

[mangolass]

It isn't just a yes/no type thing. If you play a jazz solo, and you're improvising, no doubt that's creative. If you're the drummer in a band and someone else wrote the music, there's still room for creativity. If you play in an orchestra and your instrument has to work with all the others the way the conductor wants, much less room for creativity. That's the way a lot of tasks are ~ you get different amounts of creative freedom and different amounts of input into group projects.

Modelers need to make some things up as they go ~ even if there is concept art it probably doesn't show every tooth inside the mouth, every angle, every facial expression ~ so I expect some of what they do will showup on screen and could look a little better because of their contribution than if someone else had done that modeling work.

LT

[Kanga]

In fact when there are many many artistic constraints the highly creative modeller is the one you want. You are not creative because you simply do something, but how creative you are will determine the quality of the work produced.

[Brent Turbo]

My view on this is: does it really matter? Do you have to peg a grey area to either white or black, or can you just do what you enjoy doing without attempting to define it? Whether it's artistic or technical doesn't have any affect on why I model, or how I model, so I feel as if the argument is moot.

[ekah]

My view on this is: does it really matter? Do you have to peg a grey area to either white or black, or can you just do what you enjoy doing without attempting to define it? Whether it's artistic or technical doesn't have any affect on why I model, or how I model, so I feel as if the argument is moot.

I tend to agree with Brent. Besides, the word is already defined, and it includes several meanings.


Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

1cre·a·tive Function: adjective
1 : marked by the ability or power to create (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/create) : given to creating <the creative impulse>
2 : having the quality of something created (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/created) rather than imitated : IMAGINATIVE (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/imaginative) <the creative arts>
3 : managed so as to get around legal or conventional limits <creative financing>; also : deceptively arranged so as to conceal or defraud <creative accounting>

Function: noun
1 : one (as an artist or writer) that is creative; especially : one directly involved in the creation (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/creation) of advertisements
2 : creative activity or the material produced by it especially in advertising


Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/)

cre·a·tive
adj.

Having the ability or power to create: Human beings are creative animals.
Productive; creating.
Characterized by originality and expressiveness; imaginative: creative writing.

n.
One who displays productive originality: the creatives in the advertising department.
You pick which ever definition you like.

Regards,

[Zeicon]

...which was my point exactly

[Atwooki]

On a side note:
Why are those encouragingly given the title 'A(The) Creative' usually inept in their drawing abilities, and devoid of imagination and humour :shrug:

[medunecer]

Maybe this is the point; we should think about the word "create". As I read on the Merriam-Webster online dictionary, and in othe Italian dictionary, "create" is to produce something, something that didn't exist before, bringing into existence something new. Everyone can make "something new" manipulating, for example, a given piece of clay. The point is: does that new shape of clay touch our souls? Does it give us some kind of thrill? Maybe everyone is creative, more less are the "Genius", people that can make you thrill and think using music, colors, clay or pixels.

[pushav]

It is both like a pencil drawing or a painting. Both is needed for a sucessful image.:thumbsup:

[dioxide]

Creativity is probably inherent in those with simple cognition (i.e. humans.) That is if you think that creativity is some sort of process of creation.

[bushpig]

the way i see it modelling requires equal parts of both. creativity is useless without the skills and the skills are a waste without creative output. creativity makes the task more enjoyable without it we would be wasting our time. while you may be working from drawings or a model/sculpture you will still be making some creative changes to improve the character(without losing the essence of the origin. directors generaly dont like it when you do) :thumbsup:

[DaddyMack]

Any skill is firstly technical and, when mastered, turns into a creative outlet.

When you got it you got it... ahem... or so they say...

For me, modelling is one of the greater challenges 3d presents... Making a bunch of little squares all cling together in space to create form... Love it!

[jmquintela]

think in the way that japanese sword are made, where the main design or the concept is completely understand but each blade is a unique piece where details speak for them selfs, a truly work of art where you can see the greatnest and the creativity of the art process beyond a simple but beatiful form. In a way skills by them selfs can be a creative when you achieve perfection having a goal beyond the constriction of forms. Another example are the Ghery buldings like the museum of bilbao, this "architect" makes a model of trash and cardboards and I think a few sketchs but then a team of truly achitects made the hard work of stand up that anti-structures, and finally , of course, the "architect" gets all the credits and even won the pritzker price(like the nobel of architecture).mmmm...

[dark_vader]

It is both.
You cannot be creative w/o being techical, and you cannot be technical w/o being
creative. The ability to bring to form a creation from the mind's eye is creative endeavor,
but without a thorough understanding of the medium you choose to express that vision
will limit your ability to be creative (that takes technical skill).

You can have a great idea an not be able to express it,
Or, you can know all about the technical aspects of an idea, but w/o the idea,
you cannot execute it.

It doesn't matter if it's art, music, construction,,,, etc...
It all applies to the same rules.

Greg.

[JeffB]

If it matters, 3D modelling is certainly creative, in that something new is created from something else. As others stated, the technical skills allow us to be creative.

However, more interesting is the question; Is the type of 3D modelling that begins with someone's concept drawing artistic? Sure, its creative in that something is made, but how much artisitic expression can be added by the modeller when frequently the task is to make a 3D model just like the concept? Are we being artistic in creating something that is a 3D replica of a drawing the modeller doesn't create?

These are interesting questions that plague most 3D (and most artistic) workers. How much art is individiually possessed when working in a team? Whew that's alot of question.

Jeffrey Baker
Dancing Bear Graphics, Inc.

[dark_vader]

However, more interesting is the question; Is the type of 3D modelling that begins with someone's concept drawing artistic? Sure, its creative in that something is made, but how much artisitic expression can be added by the modeller when frequently the task is to make a 3D model just like the concept? Are we being artistic in creating something that is a 3D replica of a drawing the modeller doesn't create?

These are interesting questions that plague most 3D (and most artistic) workers. How much art is individiually possessed when working in a team? Whew that's alot of question.

Jeffrey Baker
Dancing Bear Graphics, Inc.

Here is a simple answer.
First, you are putting too much thinking into simple actions. The theories behind
the process can shift with the wind. There are never any satisfactory answers.

Next, if you are a parent, why not think of the work it took to create a child.
Was it techincal skill? Was it creativity? Were you really thinking about the
theories and philosophy during the "act?"

Was there artwork involved? Sure, someone had to choose the partner, therefore
the general look of the child.

Were there technical skills involved? ( Sure there was) < albeit: low level skills.>
(thousands of books written about that subject...LOL!)

Maybe others were involved in the decision making (example: Parents asking
"Where are we going to have grandkids?" OR friends: " I think Pam is just your
type of woman." )

Still when it comes down to it, it took colaboration to make things happen.

Do you really think about it? No,,, you just do it. And hope the result is satisfactory.

Greg.








Secondly

[StarSlicer]

There are many different methods to putting creative ideas into a visible format. Your ability to use these methods is technical. Whether you're painting or 3d modeling, you're expressing your technical ability to fully use a piece of software, or master an artistic "technique."

Every piece of art has "X" amount of raw original creativity. If you're getting an original piece of concept art from an artist they in fact are taking up most of that "X" amount depending on how far they take the image before they pass it on to a technical artist. However, if you're using 3d software to render your own idea, then the "X" amount is all yours, and you are truly being creative.

A really good technical artist can create the very best image with the least amount of input from the concept artist, and speed everyones production. They then are taking more of this "X" amount and being artistic while keeping the concept artist moving faster speeding up the entire project. And that's how it is in every industry from architecture/engineering to game design.

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