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DMack
09-27-2005, 10:56 AM
Hi,

This is probably a really basic question but....When you have a camera cut halfway through an action (say a bouncing ball), on the second shot, do you need to overlap some of the action, in other words go back in time a few frames. I ask because the other day I did a cut with no overlap and felt 'left behind', almost as if time had leaped forward. I'm guessing that it takes the human eye/brain a few milliseconds to assess/comprehend the new shot.

Any advice on this...If you should overlap, by how many frames?

bblackbourn
09-27-2005, 06:38 PM
No rule on this. Actually in most film editing it's about removing time in cuts.

ie start action in shot A, cut out middle of action, finish action in shot B

In your case it may be a matter of eye-trace across the cut....?
ie where was your eye looking on the last frame of shot A, versus first frame of shot B?

For smooth movement across cuts your eye should trace the movement smoothly across the cut - very important in animation.

Good luck!

cheers,
Brad

Hinkle
09-27-2005, 07:41 PM
i agree with this guy ^

and ... it also depends on what you are trying to tell the viewer. A hero getting shot and falling down will have a lot of overlapping in the cuts to stretch the time of the fall and give a more dramatic effect. Whereas with something fast and dynamic like kicks and punches in a fight, you might remove some frames to make things seem faster as they actually are... but still : there should allways be a visual continuity in the movements.

DMack
09-28-2005, 09:07 AM
Thanks bblackbourn,

I'd never really thought about eye trace - Good point.

In the case that I had of the bouncing ball I had to, on the cut, repeat about 4 frames to make the scene sit comfortably - does this surprise you? I'm not talking about the narrative, more the technical side of continuity of action (if that makes sense).

sergioKomic
09-28-2005, 06:31 PM
Thanks bblackbourn,

I'd never really thought about eye trace - Good point.

In the case that I had of the bouncing ball I had to, on the cut, repeat about 4 frames to make the scene sit comfortably - does this surprise you? I'm not talking about the narrative, more the technical side of continuity of action

Its no surprise, there is no "4frame point 0.5 field" rule in editing! you as the editor must get the feeling the director (again you in this case) wants out to the viewer!

scrimski
09-28-2005, 07:50 PM
If it works for the viewer, if it seems to be convincable (not the same as real!) then it is OK.
There are a few well, not rule, more like conventions about where not to cut, like something called in german "Achssprung" which means the camera causes confusion becaues of crossing an invisble line of action between whatever.

But even this doesn't count, when the edit fits. :scream:

Though I had a number of clients who told me not to edit because of the Achsprung a few times, most of them these"I work with Moviemaker and can do 3d FX transitions, so I want a lot of them" type.

timothyc
10-23-2005, 02:50 AM
Hi, I used to work as a film editor so I thought I'd add my 0.02 c.

I concur with what's already been said about rules: there are none. If it works, it's correct, and that means trying it out and relying on your artitsic "feel" to tell if it's a good cut or not. Of course, this can be a bit subjective so it's not unusual for discussions to develop in the cutting room as to whether or not a cut works or not.

Nonetheless, there are some general guides:

Re. your bouncing ball, it would be important not to add or delete frames in this case because the viewer will have sensed the rhythm from the preceeding bounces and expect the next bounce, following the cut, to match the established rhythm. You then have the choice of cutting exacting on the bounce (when it hits the ground), at the top of it flight (when it changes direction from going up to down), or halfway through it upwards or downwards flight. Different editors would make different choices here, but most often the cut would be made on the impact so as not to disturb the "reciprocating" movement.

As regards matching eye position across the cut, this is also important but less so now that most stuff is being cut for video. In the old days of 2.35 widescreen it took alot longer for viewers' eyes to scan a new shot so there were often significant overlaps in the action in order for them to "get their eye in". This is especially true when cutting form close to wide because a wide scene requires more time for the eye to interpret the shot. There are lots of other little examples we could come up with if we wanted to.

I like watching Michael Kahn's work for his long standing film experience (he is SPielberg's editor). He still cuts on a movieola and is used to looking at filmed dailies. An editor brought up on TV commercials and music videos usually has different sensibilities about what makes a "good" cut. I feel that in comparison, Kahn's work has a strong cinematic feel that I love.

TC

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