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Valandar
09-20-2005, 10:09 PM
Programs used: 3DS Max r5, Photoshop

I had an idea for a mod for a game involving Armageddon - basically, all the different world mythos join in and choose sides. Norse Valkyries will be fighting Japanese Oni, while Vedic Garudas will be fighting Greek Erinyes, and so on.

This is the as-yet un-rigged Valkyrie for this. She's only 2066 tris without her sword (which will add 60-70 at the most), with a single 512 map.

The first is obviously the rendered version, done in MAX 5 with a floating point TIFF as image based lighting, the second is the map, and the third is a wireframe render.

Valandar
09-21-2005, 03:50 AM
Okay, got her rigged, and the swords done. The swords use a 128 tex...

Pesky
09-21-2005, 11:02 AM
Hey that's really good. This is just the kind of thing I'm trying to learn how to model. Would it be possible to get a few 'shaded' wireframe views, especially of the head and hands (these are the areas that give me the most trouble). I'm really looking forward to seeing some more of your work.

Cheers

AdamAtomic
09-21-2005, 04:07 PM
Not too bad! In general I think the textures are a bit flat and a smidge dark, but it could be the render. I think you could probably improve your UV efficiency some too. I like the colors!

Toxic Frog
09-21-2005, 05:05 PM
Hi Valandar,
Overall, this is very nice work. But, since this forum is for critiques, I'd like to offer some:

If you're not planning to normal map the character, I'd recommend you paint more detail and contrast into the texture. Like Adam says, the textures are a little flat. I think you could improve the look by making the shadows and highlights more pronounced. Also, add a little subtle color variation. Sometimes I like to add a hue/sat adjustment layer and just slide the hue and sat values slightly in one direction, then paint in some blobs to add a little bit of nuance to the colors.

Also, you could paint in some shadows to add false depth to the texture.

TheRedemption
09-21-2005, 09:16 PM
good model but....dont take this the wrong way now....she kinda looks like a carnie...ya know small hands and smell like cabbage. other than that the model is great but the texture could use some more detail. since this charatcer is going to be fighting other characters (or maybe already has?) maybe some dirt and scratches or something, just an idea.

Valandar
09-21-2005, 09:21 PM
Actually, no, I'm not planning on normal mapping it. The game I'm modding doesn't support normal maps (or even bump maps, *sigh*).

Okay, I painted in some extra shadows, and exxagerated some of the shadow detail slightly. I also fixed a couple of mis-assigned vertexes. How's it look now?


http://valandar3d.fools3d.com/WIP/valk2done2.jpg

TheRedemption
09-21-2005, 09:25 PM
looking good...kinda warcraf-esque in my opinion, which is a good thing :D

Toxic Frog
09-21-2005, 09:40 PM
Better, but now I'd recommend that you put more work into the highlights. That will increase the overall contrast throughout the texture. For example, use highlights to accentuate the high points of the cloth and the shape of the body. Use sharper highlights on the metal to make it look metallic, and use more diffused highlights on the cloth and skin.

ALso, it looks like you've used the bevel and emboss effects to define a lot of the armor. This is fine, and it's a trick that I use a lot too, but in this case it seems to be working against you. Now that you've got it blocked in, you should manually paint the highlights and shadows and get rid of the effect. I think you'll have much better results that way. As it is, all the bevel and embossed areas are uniformly shaded, and it is creating a bad illusion of scale across the model and negating the shading work. Notice on the plate next to her leg that there are highlights on the rim where there should be shadow. This is a side effect of relying too much on the photoshop effects. Doing this work manually will let you solidify the false light source in the texture.

Once you're happy with the shadows and highlights, I agree that you should paint in some scratches and grime. It can be very subtle and still make a world of difference.

Hope that helps!

Valandar
09-21-2005, 09:54 PM
ALso, it looks like you've used the bevel and emboss effects to define a lot of the armor. This is fine, and it's a trick that I use a lot too, but in this case it seems to be working against you. Now that you've got it blocked in, you should manually paint the highlights and shadows and get rid of the effect. I think you'll have much better results that way. As it is, all the bevel and embossed areas are uniformly shaded, and it is creating a bad illusion of scale across the model and negating the shading work. Notice on the plate next to her leg that there are highlights on the rim where there should be shadow. This is a side effect of relying too much on the photoshop effects. Doing this work manually will let you solidify the false light source in the texture.

(snip)

Hope that helps!

It sure does. However, the part I quoted above is where I have a slight issue. See, I'm relatively new to low-poly skinning, and am not sure how to go about doing this. If I paint these things in, they'd look just like the bevel and emboss, anyway. How should I alter it? I have no clue, currently.

Toxic Frog
09-21-2005, 10:06 PM
If I paint these things in, they'd look just like the bevel and emboss, anyway.

Not really. If you use the effect, it's as if all the light comes from the same direction on the texture. When the texture is on the model, it will often look like different parts of the model are getting light from different directions (like the leg plate I mentioned, which does not look like it's lit from above). What I suggest is that you make sure the model looks as if the light source is always coming from above. By shading manually, you have complete control over where the light source is.

Also, by doing the shading yourself, you can make the colored rims of the armor look much more rounded or chiseled, shiny or dull. WIth the PS effect, it's the same across the whole character, which makes it look artificial.

Valandar
09-21-2005, 11:37 PM
Well, I did what I could following your advice. Since the skin is mirrored, so were the scratches, but I did what I could.

How is this?

http://valandar3d.fools3d.com/WIP/valk2done3.jpg

Toxic Frog
09-22-2005, 05:52 AM
I think that looks 100 times better. There is consistency with the light source in the texture, and strategic shadows and highlights. The area from the torso to the legs is a good area to compare between the last 2 images - it's night and day. I think the fake detail in the texture compliments the model a lot more now. What do you think?

Valandar
09-22-2005, 06:15 AM
I think I need to make the scratches in the thigh plates much smaller. But otherwise, thank you so much for your advice. The grime and rust I was already planning on, but I have a tendency to make the shadows and light on a skin not quite as extreme as it needs to be. Must be because I'm sort of "stuck between two worlds" - I make low poly meshes as a hobby in my spare time, but make moderately high poly meshes for Poser and broker them for a living.

Once again, thanks for the advice, Toxic Frog, Redemption, and Adam Atomic. Pesky, I'll get the wireframe shaded views up in a minute. I should say that I based the hands on the way they were made for the meshes in the game Freedom Force (though they are not EXACTLY identical).

Valandar
09-22-2005, 10:39 PM
Okay, started work on the Valkyrie's opponant, a Japanese Oni. He's a head taller than her, and a LOT broader. I have the basic geometry done, and I've started very basically roughing out the skin for him. I also haven't decided if he's going to use a dai-sho, or a naginata or bisento...

http://valandar3d.fools3d.com/WIP/onitest01.jpg

The skin tone will be definitely shifted more orange/yellow, and desaturated a little... I also haven't started with the "color variation" bit yet, or any details other than what you see here.

Valandar
09-23-2005, 03:25 AM
And a few hours later, got most of it done; just gotta do the mouthparts and feet, and finish the hands, then I can start work on 'dirtying it up' a bit, and making his bisento, then rig it:

http://valandar3d.fools3d.com/WIP/onitest03.jpg

Valandar
09-23-2005, 06:20 AM
And the "dirty" final version; all that's left is tweaking the seam on his toes. Any suggestions or critiques before I rig him and make his (rather nasty looking) Bisento?

http://valandar3d.fools3d.com/WIP/onitest04.jpg

TheRedemption
09-23-2005, 03:44 PM
the only think i can see is that something looks wierd with his eyes it almost seems too cartoony unless thats the look your going for

Valandar
09-23-2005, 07:10 PM
Sort of. Japanese art always depicts Oni with big googly eyes, so that was what I was trying for here.

Pesky
09-24-2005, 08:40 AM
I love these. I really wanna see wires, pretty please.

Valandar
09-24-2005, 09:56 AM
Wires you want, wires you get:

http://valandar3d.fools3d.com/WIP/obodwires.jpg

http://valandar3d.fools3d.com/WIP/ofacewires.jpg

http://valandar3d.fools3d.com/WIP/vbodwires.jpg

http://valandar3d.fools3d.com/WIP/vfacewire.jpg

Pesky
09-24-2005, 10:51 AM
Yippee! Now I'm happy. Thanks very much.

I can't tell you how much of a help it is to me to study other peoples wires. I honestly think I learn more from studying wires than I do from any of the books I've bought.

Thanks again.

Valandar
01-29-2006, 07:18 PM
Sorry to necropost in my own thread, but I just finished rendering out a series of the animations for the Valkyrie mesh. Since the game has specific animation requirements, I went ahead and rendered out some of the more basic to keep it from being ten minutes long...

http://newpowerinc.com/valanderfiles/WIP/valkanim.avi

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