CGTalk - Head: Hayden Christensen

sasquatch

11-08-2002, 01:50 PM

Whoa, hats off to the giant head lady. How are you, O Gnarly one? This is absolutely great stuff.

2 things I can see: the tip of his nose and the naso-labial wings are a little small; the reference looks a little more bulbous. Also, his lips look a little tight; the bottok one is a shade too skinny.

That said, the head looks absolutely fantastic.

Inevitably.....more wires and angles pleeze.

psil

11-08-2002, 02:50 PM

Very good:thumbsup: - you've definitely got him

agree about the nose + lip

More angles plz!

gnarlycranium

11-09-2002, 08:59 AM

maelstrom: Thanks! I dunno quite what you mean by 'so little' reference, though, I've got dozens of pics of this guy... you can take a look at the main ones I've been using here (http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/gnarly_cranium/Kevin/HCreference.html). As for the ears, as I already stated they're OLD and need to be fixed... heck, now that I'm pretty sure everything's in the right spot, I've deleted them entirely.

sasquatch: Heyyyyy you!! :D Gawd you're as flattering and nice as you are fuzzy and cute! I can't believe you said that! You and your damn near photorealistic Kevin Spacey, great heavens... Yeah, noticed what you mean about the nose, trying to fix it. Nasio-labial wings, you say? Love it when you talk technical. ;) I just call em 'them side of the nose thingies'

psil: Seriously? It looks like him? Ooh... well, guess we'll have to see if you guys still think that when you see it from these other angles!

I've worked on it quite a bit tonight, tried to fix the nose and the lips, took the ears off, and slapped on the rest of the cranium. I've found that to get the proportions right I need to keep in mind how far forward the head is tilted-- it's not directly facing the front orthographic view, it's turned according to the front view photo I've been using. I stuck point helpers on certain spots on the profile photos, and scaled and rotated the profiles until those helpers lined up with the right spots on the front photo.. seems to be working, but a little confusing to nod have the head facing straight. I rotated the eyeballs too, just to not forget. Later I'll probably turn the whole thing to the way it should be.

The distortion from lining the head up with the perspective photo seems to have squished it towards the front, I tried to fix that, tell me if the skull is still too tapered? It looks odd to me, the way the brows stick so far forward right next to the nose, and then sweep back so much to the sides.

gnarlycranium

11-09-2002, 09:08 AM

Hopefully this thing is still visible.. having a hard time figuring out why some pics come out teeny and some come out big-sized. I really need to get some webspace outside Angelfire.

Anyhow! Wires! I spent most of my time tonight totally restructuring the mesh-- it's not the crazy mess you saw last time, almost everything's been moved. I'm trying out something new for the area around the nose, below the eyes, and leading down to the mouth, not sure I like it. For one thing, the nose is driving me NUTS. Usually I don't have too much problem with the mesh in that area, but this time it's just all batty. A good mesh is absolutely necessary for getting a head to look like anything, so I'm trying really hard to get this thing right-- tell me everything and anything you think might need changed. I'd like the thing to be set up well for animation, though I have no skills in that area yet.

I'll be adding more detail to the lower lip and the eyelids later.

bored alien

11-09-2002, 09:23 AM

Whoa! Gnarly!! Looks like you've been putting all that head advice you dole out to good use. That's definitely a very good likeness; just needs some subtle details which are hard to discern. And ears. If you want my advice, forget the ears. They're what's kept me from progressing on my model. ;) Anyway, one other thing that stands out to me is maybe his brow is too far out or a little too pointy, though I'd have to see more angles of the reference to know for sure. Something's making him look too old, IMO, and it seems like that happens sometimes when features are too sharp. :shrug: I really dunno though. It looks great. :thumbsup:

EDIT: Also I think the underside of the brow, just above the eye, would look better if it wasn't so flat.

yukosh

11-09-2002, 09:35 AM

I think it's looks amazing!! but I can't tell if the jaw is a tiny bit too narrow or if it's the angle of the tilt...but it def looks like him!:thumbsup:

T0BER

11-09-2002, 10:53 AM

Looking good so far, but here's what I'm noticing as being out:

The part that really sticks out to me is the jawline, his is much wider/squarer.

Top eyelid should pass over the lower one at the outer edge of the eye.

Eyebrow is too sharp, needs to be rounded more, this will lead into the eyelid needing to be tucked under the eyebrow as well.

Lower eyelid should come down a bit further.

Eyes have a mild orbit that is missing from your model.

Nose ridge needs to be wider, but the nostrils and tip look correct.

Mouth looks correct, might be a little too sharp at the sides of the lower lip.

Chin has a dimple yours is missing.

Hope this helps and you find it useful.

All the best :)

gnarlycranium

11-09-2002, 11:15 AM

bored alien: Well, I'm not ALL talk... ;) As for the ears... well... okay, so he gets a lot of things lopped and burned and generally mauled off by the time he gets to the original Star Wars Trilogy, but ears were one of the things he DID still have, so I guess I'll have to give him some. Heheh. What do you mean about the underside of the brow being too flat, though?

yukosh: If you people keep telling me this stuff, I'll start to think I'm getting somewhere! :)

T0BER: All the problems you mention concerning the eyes and the chin will be attended to when I add the eyelid detail and lower lip detail that I mentioned not having yet.

Looks like I'm hearing... brow too sharp, chin too narrow. Alrighty then! Back to work!!
:thumbsup:

dark_lotus

11-09-2002, 11:47 AM

OMG this is amazing.

This is the 3D model that looks almost identicle to the intended person, and not just alike.

I think there was a Bruce Willis one. But this is amazing!

maelstrom

11-09-2002, 01:02 PM

:thumbsup:

your second nose looks way better! I think you got it now...

GREAT STUFF!

gnarlycranium

11-09-2002, 03:47 PM

dark_lotus : Gah! You guys are starting to scare me! :insane: It can't be THAT good...

maelstrom : Now if only I could get the nose mesh to cooperate, I'd be thrilled. Arg.

Photos are useful! I've put in two more, and with a bit of careful tweaking, it's looking better. I haven't gotten to the eyes or the lower lip and chin yet, mostly I've been working on the top of the head. The main problem my reference photos are uncovering for me is the fact that the brainpan doesn't seem to be the right size!! It's like the back of his head just... shrank. I can't figure out how much of that is due to camera distortion, or what... How the heck do I give it enough Cranium room without violating the proportions? It doesn't make any sense!

I've put up the pics and tried out some html stuff that supposedly will flip back and forth between the photo images and the 3d model on top when you move the mouse across it, for easy comparison. I don't know a darn thing about html, it's all just copy/pasted, so this ought to be interesting. I couldn't figure out how to put it all on one page, so each has its own. The lighting in them is just an approximation, of course, I didn't feel like spending hours perfecting it.

I'll be updating these as I go along.

Rollover 1 (http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/gnarly_cranium/Kevin/HCrollover1.html)

Rollover 2 (http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/gnarly_cranium/Kevin/HCrollover2.html)

Rollover 3 (http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/gnarly_cranium/Kevin/HCrollover3.html)

seabede

11-09-2002, 04:27 PM

Hi,

really nice work. I am looking for yours next work :bounce:

regards Endre

matlock

11-09-2002, 04:50 PM

hi there! this is a great model and yes it does look very much alike him. keep up the good work!

bored alien

11-10-2002, 12:02 AM

Hey, my 100th post! Must be a lot of activity here if I had to go to the second page to find this already. Underside of the brow is too flat = usually it seems like people have some skin hanging down a little bit just above the eyelid and below the eyebrow, making that region more rounded where it appears flat and angular on your model. It's a very small thing to mention, and I see Hayden Christensen even more every time I look at this, so I might be way off. Really great work! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Per-Anders

11-10-2002, 01:01 AM

hayden as a bit of a dimple in his chin, so give hime some cleft there. also strengthen up the cheekbones that tiny bit more (maybe just hollow the cheeks a little bit). but it's looking pretty damned good so far. keep up the good work.:thumbsup:

ecko

11-10-2002, 03:13 AM

looks very clean for me good work keep it up :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

gnarlycranium

11-10-2002, 02:40 PM

And more people keep replying! Eek!

bored alien: Hey! Spiffy! :cool: Yeah, I know what you mean about the brow stuff now... it shows up worst in Rollover #1. Trying to figure out how to deal with it, I've never had the chance to really work on this kind of detail before.

I've finally started in on the folds in the eyelids, and fixed up the mesh some more-- I think I got the nose to cooperate! The lips still aren't quite right, and I haven't dented his chin, but I think his jaw is fixed. And I also stuck him with some proper eyeballs! Yay! I'm so fond of those...

I've updated the photo views, there's links to the image flips here:

Photo VS Model (http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/gnarly_cranium/Kevin/HCmodel.html)

leigh

11-10-2002, 02:51 PM

Hehehe that's looking awesome, Gnarly :thumbsup:
I don't really have any crits apart from what you've mentioned...

Keep it up! I'm looking forward to seeing this one develop!
The eyes look great so far :D

gnarlycranium

11-13-2002, 05:56 PM

Leigh : Hey! Thanks! I'd make him hairy for you, but um... I don't have any hair plugins. :D Even if I did, most of what hair he does have goes on his head... and what plugin could possibly do THIS? (http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/gnarly_cranium/Kevin/HCcute.jpg) Alright, alright, I guess the Anakin hairdo would be pretty easy... but honestly, I'd rather he looked crazed than like a chia pet...

I've added detail around the eyelids, including that second almost-crease below the eyes. It doesn't really show up the pic I've attached, but it's there.

I spent about 4 hours making the ear. I'm quite happy with it, except for some problems with where it attaches to the head, I think I have to move over the upper section some. It might also still be too small.

I started to add an inside to the mouth, but in the process I think I've seriously messed up the corners of the lips, and I can't figure out how to fix it.. arg.

I've put in a subtle procedural bump map and a base color for the skin-- experimenting with a multi-layer material with a very wide, blue-tinted specular to provide some handy color shift in the lighter areas. Beyond this... we come to the next problem... I don't know how to use Photoshop, and I don't know how to use UVW Unwrap. I've never seriously or successfully textured anything before in my life. I've never even really gotten this far with a project before-- so this ought to be interesting. Hehheh... heh.. :hmm:

gnarlycranium

12-15-2002, 09:06 PM

well... thanks anyway guys for what you did say.... it was really encouraging while it lasted.

Irie

12-15-2002, 09:58 PM

i gotta say, im glad you bumped up this thread (even tho you were searching for sympathy! hee hee)

This is one of the best celebrity heads i have seen in a while... without all the hair and textures applied, it looks just like him! Now all yo have to do is hone your texturing skills and get him done!

wow

nice work
matt

wgreenlee1

12-16-2002, 04:04 AM

I dont like they way the ear looks in that last shot there.
Looks like its tilted back and out too much!

bored alien

12-16-2002, 08:22 AM

Yeah I was wondering where this thread ran off to. The secret is to keep updating. ;) Give him hair!!!

edit: oh and I agree the ears seem off.

Haaibo

12-19-2002, 07:22 PM

his top lip needs to be just 1mm fuller
but the rest rocks, way better than my portman model :D

soundwav_

12-29-2002, 03:17 AM

I totally agree with Haaibo, the top lip is too thin, and it needs to tilt upwards a bit more...
The tip of the nose is tilted up too much, according to this rollover you did... (http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/gnarly_cranium/Kevin/HCrollover1.html) (the bottom side of the tip of the nose).

other than that, the model is coming along really really really great! :thumbsup: keep it up and you might get this guy not to worry about playing in movies again :) :) :)

kydjester

12-29-2002, 05:50 AM

Very very nice job !! Looks just like him .

KingMob

01-06-2003, 03:04 PM

looks great, hope you are still working on him. I do think it would be cool if you attempted hair, at least as a test to see if you can do it.

Great model, really looks like him. Congrats!

Can't beleive I missed this thread before

Cryo_RO

01-14-2003, 08:35 PM

I just noticed this thread :)
This head is very good , and the rollover idea is great.
One area that doesen't look good enough is the eyelid area , that's where i have a big problem with my jackie model too , especially since jackie is asian and has those wierd eyes :insane:
Another area you need a little work in is the ear , in the last image it look pretty off.
I'd like to help you more but i don't really know that actor guy , i haven't even seen attack of the clones , heh :)
anyway, good job

gnarlycranium

02-02-2003, 05:05 PM

Thanks a lot for your comments guys!!

I've finally gotten around to doing some more work on this thing-- there's still no textures at all, but I did fiddle endlessly with the skin shader. I feel like I'm running in circles with it, but it's better than nothing.

I've changed the nose a little bit, and I think I fixed the upper lip, though the changes in both are very subtle.

One of the main things I did was to try to fix the problems with the ear, and the distortion I was getting with the back of the skull-- turns out I was using entirely the wrong field of view while I was modeling, especially in regards to my reference photos. This thread about view-angle (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40871) in the modeling section helped a lot! The junction between ear and head still isn't quite clean, but I have fixed it up a little.

I've also given it about 200 eyelashes. That took a while, but it wasn't nearly as bad as I was expecting. I even wrote a little tutorial on how I did it (http://www.logrhythms.com/Leah/tuts/TutELhome.html). One difficulty with this is the fact that Hayden Christensen has some really MASSIVE eyelashes, but I don't know how to recreate that without making the eyes look girly. :hmm:

http://www.logrhythms.com/Leah/HCEL02b.jpg
http://www.logrhythms.com/Leah/HCmod03.jpg
http://www.logrhythms.com/Leah/HCobservermod3.jpg

KingMob

02-02-2003, 06:00 PM

HEy Actually that 3/4 view looks a lot like, esp with a nice skin shader on it.

The eyelashes look good, but right now in the front view he seems a little girlie.

I think that isn't the eyelashes fault, but his super soft skin right now, if you added some elight wrinkles (especially in the brow above the nose, and a little under the eyes)

If you can, with that skin shader, try and get a richer brown feeling to the skin...I get a feeling of to much 'white' highlights.

Really super modeling thus far, It's really looking about 99% like him, and if you could tone down the highlight on that skin/add some bump I think you would have it.

Great work gnarly! :beer:

gnarlycranium

02-02-2003, 06:31 PM

Girlieness must be abolished!! ARGH!! :scream: Well, it looks okay from a distance... so I'm going to leave it for now. (he really does have thick eyelashes, it's bizarre)

And now... everybody hold your breath.... MY FIRST ATTEMPT AT STARTING SOME POLY HAIR!! *gasp*

...So don't laugh....
...Or at least, do it where I can't hear.

Okay, so I said it'd be a while... I lied. I got a bug up my nose and spent the past 2 hours slapping hair-stuff all over that head.

Oh, and ignore the icky hairline, I'll find some way to deal with that later... if I can figure out HOW. The whole head isn't covered yet, I'm just trying to find out if this method works at all.

http://www.logrhythms.com/Leah/HChair01.jpg

urgaffel

02-02-2003, 07:46 PM

Looking mighty fine gnarly! The hair looks a little iffy, but the model itself is super!

And yes, he looks very girlish from the front :)

daevid

02-02-2003, 09:10 PM

Looking really good with the new shaders!

You'll probably get rid of a bit of the girliness as soon as you give him proper eyebrows.

About the hair; I'd try creating a hairline into the head texture to make the hairpolys blend in. It's quite hard to evaluate the hair technique while the hairline is like it is now. Making a couple more textures for different part of the hair would probably help evaluating as well... Personally I think it could work as a good base hair if you add specific wisps of hair that draws the eyes attention.

Looking forward for more updates...

- David

gnarlycranium

02-03-2003, 07:16 AM

daevid-- Eyebrows! Good point, he NEEDS those... but at this rate I'm going to have to make them a strand at a time, like the eyelashes... and I'm reeeeally not looking forward to that. :argh: There isn't any texture on the head itself whatsoever yet-- I used material IDs to slap some pink stuff on the inside of his eyes, and that's it. You have a good point about varying the hair bits-- I should do that. Speaking of the hair.. Veqtue sent me a link to one of Dave K's threads where he was making hair, that gave me some better ideas-- I might start it over again from scratch using another method. Possibly lofting. I'd try NURBS, but I don't know a damn thing about them. I'll be fiddling with this more later tonight.

urgaffel-- I am on a quest to eliminate girlieness! It will be abolished! :mad:

..But really, people, just lookit them eyeballs. The guy has more lashes than I do!!
http://www.logrhythms.com/Leah/HCfront02.jpg

...In other news, I will be fixing him up to look like Anakin. I wasn't originally intending to bother with it, but he might be ending up in a Star Wars kinda scene, so from now on this is an Anakin Skywalker head! Take a good look at the photo above, people, he won't be lookin that sweet or cute again anytime soon!

He'll be looking like THIS instead! :twisted:
http://www.logrhythms.com/Leah/HCfront03.jpg

gnarlycranium

02-04-2003, 05:05 PM

Well, zillions of hours of agonizing over it later... the eye STILL isn't shaped right... but this is what I've got. I'm pretty happy with the eyelashes now, though I guess I'll have to move them when I get the eye right. Ugh.

It would seem I need to change something about the uppermost part of the nose, and the lips need a lot of work. The chin-dimple will go in later, after I weld the head, since it's asymetrical.

http://www.logrhythms.com/Leah/HCwp01.jpg

http://www.logrhythms.com/Leah/HCfront04.jpg

sasquatch

02-04-2003, 05:11 PM

Looking good O Cranial one. It looks to me as if you might push the inner part of the lower eyelid up a bit and pull the outer bit of the upper eyelid down, and you'll be there.

Let me guess: too many hours looking at his face, all objectivity gone? :D

It's looking ace, really. Keep it up.

gnarlycranium

02-04-2003, 05:23 PM

Squatchie! Hey! :D Actually, I've found that doing rollovers helps a LOT with getting ye old objectivity back... I can SEE what's wrong with his eye, I just can't seem to wrestle a 3d object into DOING that. It's driving me nuts. :annoyed:

The outer corner of the eye is at the right width. It's too high, but it's out there far enough. Lining up the eyeball to that... the iris ends up too close to the inside of the eye, and if I make the eyeball smaller to try to get it centered, then the tear duct area ends up WAY too deep. If I make the eyeball bigger to fix the tear duct area problem, then it gets too big and pokes through the outer corner area-- which is already far enough out to the side that pulling it farther out to compensate would make the eye wrong again. In that last shot, I finally just got frustrated and rotated the eyeball outward to get it centered in the eye, when in reality it's too far inward.

sasquatch

02-04-2003, 05:33 PM

Damn, have I ever gone mental with the tear duct issue. I've decided that they are a lot deeper than you first think (there's very little z-axis falloff from the centre of the eyelid to it's inner edge). If anything, the eyeball looks a little big (the outer edge looks as if it's straining at the lids). The liquid in the eye covers a lot of sins and bridges the gap between the lid and the eyeball a lot.

gnarlycranium

02-04-2003, 06:05 PM

So it's not just me going crazy??? Good! I mean... I'm sorry!!

I guess I'll try shrinking the eyeball some more and see if that helps... what a mess. :insane: I've got my work cut out for me here.

Daolohua CnC

03-06-2003, 09:14 AM

these were the difference i noticed when i overlayed the 2 pics (urs and a photo)

Daolohua CnC

03-06-2003, 09:15 AM

these were the difference i noticed when i overlayed the 2 pics (urs and a photo)

i beleive the chin needs to be dimpled a bit more... as well as more of a bridge on the nose...

nice model tho... what method of texturing did you use for the eyes?

gnarlycranium

03-06-2003, 12:26 PM

The chin-dimple is asymmetrical, so I was going to do it later... and I think you're right about the brow problems, not really sure what to change on that yet.

The eye is modeled in the usual way-- indentation for the iris, then another sphere outside the eyeball sphere for the cornea, with a bulge at the front. The materials are a bit complex-- there's the white Eyeball material with a plain old gradient ramp map with Turbulence noise in it for the veins, I'll be painting something actually decent looking when I have the tablet. Then there's the Pupil material, which is totally matte black... and the Iris, which consists of a gradient ramp map with noise in it for the color, and more similar maps for the Specular Level and Glossiness. I used an iris map from Julian_J's website for the bump mapping-- I'll paint my own when I get the darn tablet, but for now his stuff has been REALLY handy and it's good reference too, check it out (http://www.cg-art.i12.com/downloads.html). Those maps are for default Maya mapping, of course, but putting them on a MAX sphere didn't take too much work.

In other news, I think I'll be able to handle the hair, it's just going to take a while. This handy-shmandy script called Mouse Planter from LFShade is probably gonna help me bunches! He made quite a few nifty thingies, lookit this thread (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44861) to see

I'm kinda stalled on this project for a bit longer... I'm debating whether to start the mesh over, and gnawing on my knuckles. :D