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zman
09-09-2005, 04:20 PM
Ziv Qual is entered in the "Spectacular Challenge" update: View Challenge Page (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/spectacular/view_entries.php?challenger=8617)

Latest Update: Final Image: Rage over Babylon
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1133637602_medium.jpg (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=2877417#post2877417)

zman
09-09-2005, 09:04 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1126299879_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1126299879_large.jpg)

When i first saw the topic, I immedietly knew one thing - i wanna make something huge, the term "sence of scale" is often the key to make something truely stunning and spectacular. after a few days with dozens of ideas that run through my head I've decided to go with 1 of the events that forever changed the human history - the tower of babel. Builders from all over the world joined up and tried to build a tower that will actually reach heaven. their presumption, however, angered Jehovah, who interrupted construction by causing among them a previously unknown confusion of languages. He then scattered these people, speaking different languages, over the face of the earth.

I'm stil in the stage of planning the actual composition and story.
Meanwhile i'm making a few tests as I plan to make a very detailed scene, just the quick basic test-tower i've built using symmetry and array is costing me around 1.5 million polys ...

Adriano-Zanetti
09-09-2005, 09:47 PM
Cool man, nice concept, Looking forward to se the cam angle and the action you gonna set up in there. Goodluck !

pe@ce

Adriano

Nichod
09-10-2005, 05:30 AM
Great idea. I think the scene needs a crowd of people at the bottom, elephants, stones leftover from the building of the tower, camels, and one awesome POV for it all. Look forward to how this turns out!

vrhead
09-10-2005, 06:17 AM
few thats alot of polies

RedXR
09-10-2005, 07:07 AM
Awesome concept, by far one of my favorites. Nice light and modeling, can't wait for updates.

pruvaloo
09-11-2005, 10:38 PM
*Stares at tower* thats already kick ass, and its only a test! Best of luck man

ChristianHammer
09-11-2005, 11:38 PM
Might be fun to have a small crown in the forground, like a foreman, architect and others etc. arguing over the constuction... of course they wouldn't understand each other...

zman
09-16-2005, 10:21 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1126866097_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1126866097_large.jpg)

I'm stil checking my options with the modeling. On one hand, i wanna go crazy with the details later on so i keep the whole base with clean quads and on the other Hand, I havent evan begun with all the rest of the stuff i got in my mind and i am allready at 3.5 million polys ...
here's a quick look at how its modeled.

zman
09-16-2005, 10:31 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1126866661_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1126866661_large.jpg)

This is just another test render.
I stil need to figure out exactly how i put everything into place with the composittion. I am thinking of taking this a bit further and give it my own twist.
hold on for the concept sketch :)

this actually took 50 hours to render (in good quality in 2660 x 3636, the JPG filesize limit really ruins it), not that i minded too much being busy with work over the week, but i fear the final image's rendertime ...

zman
09-22-2005, 07:24 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1127417050_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1127417050_large.jpg)

so the first thing that came to mind when i read the guidlines was that sence of scale will have to take a large role in the image. then I realized that its not enough, I need to make something that is somehow "dinamic", to catch something big happening the second it happens. I've decided to make the fall of babilon as i imagine it.

note this sketch was only made to show my general idea for the sence of scale (look at the height of the "houses") and what will be generally hapening.
the camera angle is more or less final as well.

now i have to start going crazy on the details and yet keep it all "affordable" memorywise ...

ChristianHammer
09-22-2005, 07:27 PM
I like where you are going with this. The camera angle gives a great sense of scale ,and looming danger. Keep up the great work!

zman
09-22-2005, 09:38 PM
thnx
i've actually spent a few hours till i got a good camera angle :)

ThierryS
09-24-2005, 08:10 AM
Good concept, I like it man, Babel is a very strong theme and the way you plan your illustration looks very promising. Good luck with it and I'll be back to see how it's taking shape:thumbsup: :)

zman
09-24-2005, 08:04 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1127592252_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1127592252_large.jpg)

finnaly found some free time this weekend ...

besides some modeling progress, my time was also spent for more carefull planning on how to proceed with this. I've decided to not use meshsmooth. there are 2 meanning to this - my workflow will be much slower as i chamfer everything by hand and when i will wanna make changes, it would mean dealing with much higher poly count on the base mesh.
the second meanning to this is that i cut the poly count by 300% ...

anyways, I've focused mainly on the lower part of the tower - the first 2 levels and the beggining of the spiral part. I know it all might look too repetetive. I'm planning on changing that as much as I can to have a good base and then add the real details that will make the variation - flags, torches, plants and so on (plz give me more ideas for details :)

I think i'll take a little break from the tower and start on the city around it now.

MattGyver
09-24-2005, 08:58 PM
Wow. This is looking amazing. I love how you have the base of the tower sitting on the slope of the hill and then the main part continues straight up like it's supposed to. I can't wait to see this thing get destroyed! ... That didn't sound right. :D Anyway, keep up the great work. :thumbsup:

idflood
09-26-2005, 06:35 AM
Hi.
impressive modeling, good good work;)

Waiting to see more :)

pipiritruiqui
09-27-2005, 01:27 AM
Exelent Model, Good Beginning, Nothing That To Say. Good Lock

zman
09-29-2005, 08:03 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1128024183_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1128024183_large.jpg)

just thought I'd share some of the refference images I've collected on the net to get a good idea of the originaltower design.
I plan to keep the general look close to the original as i see in the paintings and then add my own stuff while stil keeping the base the same as it was ... and then start destroing it :)

MattGyver
09-29-2005, 08:13 PM
Interesting how the basic design is pretty much universally accepted and there's only minor variations between each artist's conception of the tower. Oh, and I just took a look at your website. I must say I'm impressed. :applause:

zman
09-30-2005, 10:28 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1128076115_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1128076115_large.jpg)

ok, so this is what i got so far on the tower. as you can see, I kept the basic shape the same as i saw in the refference with my own touch. I plan on giving it much more details and variation to break the repetetivness later on. next up is making the city below it to give the sence of scale.

suk-grigorij
09-30-2005, 03:45 PM
One little note, the lower part of tower (the base) looks a bit boring. I think, it would be better with some more architectural details on it.

ihamid
09-30-2005, 03:59 PM
hi zman
an incredible tower man and very very mysterious ... like how it fades into the clouds!
reminds me of the darktower series!
cheers!

zman
10-01-2005, 09:28 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1128158933_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1128158933_large.jpg)

Weekend again ...
This is 3 variations of the "simple" city houses. I'm trying to keep it looking biblical and simple looking.

zman
10-01-2005, 06:33 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1128191612_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1128191612_large.jpg)

By now I've been through lots of refference image from the biblical times. One of the most common props I've seen was vases. This prop will take a large role in my scene to fill in details and live up boring areas. Thats why I've made quite a few variations of it (model and texture).

zman
10-02-2005, 10:38 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1128292692_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1128292692_large.jpg)

I've decided to put a minitower somewhere in the center of the city pretty close to where the babylon tower begins. The tower itself is just about as high as the first floor of the babilon tower. In the screenshot, u can clearly start getting a sence of scale by familiar things "we know".

vampeta
10-02-2005, 10:49 PM
Hi Ziv,

this is some realy intersting thread!
I like your idea and your designs.

I cant wait to see the Final!
Good luck to you!
Cheers :beer: Alex

zman
10-03-2005, 11:37 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1128339463_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1128339463_large.jpg)

nothing much this time.
these bricks are gonna serve me to construct some basic stuff i have in mind like a well. they will also take a roll in this project once I start "bringing the tower down" :)
Like with the vases, i hate it when its so noticable when something was modeled once and just got clonned all over the place so I made a few variations in the details.

zman
10-04-2005, 04:01 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1128398485_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1128398485_large.jpg)

stil working on stuff to fill the city with. I needed ideas stuff that biblical cities needed and a well was pretty obviuse. stil need some good ideas. I think I'll make a marketplace area.

MattGyver
10-04-2005, 06:51 AM
So if the tower was trying to get to heaven, where exactly was the well going? (Sorry. I'm tired and my jokes get bad late at night.) Anyway, I was thinking. Digs in Egypt have found some communal "cafeteria" areas where the workers building the pyramids would eat and rest. With a project as massive as this tower, it would probably be safe to assume they'd have a similar area. And there's my idea for the day.

zman
10-04-2005, 08:23 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1128457426_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1128457426_large.jpg)

more props and stuff to spread around :)
I allwais try to keep it looking very detailed with a relatively low/medium poly count keeping in mind the size of the final scene ...

zman
10-08-2005, 09:06 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1128805593_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1128805593_large.jpg)

I've decided its time to start constructing the actual city. The general plan is to have a sea with some ships (yeah more stuff to model...) on the right, have a marketplace near the shore, have the "mini" temple on the center and the city houses on the left.
I am now reworking the lighting setup to make it all look good. I am going with a bit darker setup than what i planned so i could light stuff locally with torches and stuff to break the evanness.
I stil gotta re-arrange everything and build much more stuff to fill the city with. Lots of stuff before I evan get back to working (and ruinning) on the tower itself.
I just with i'll have the time :)

anyhoo, here's a viewport shot of what i got so far.

Polycount btw, is currently standing on 4 Million :eek: so I'll have to start killing polys from stuff that wont be seen by the camera (the back of the well, the back of the temple and stuff like that).

pluMmet
10-08-2005, 09:24 PM
Man this is a rockin' idea. Wish I'd thought of it :thumbsup:

Daniel-McMillan
10-10-2005, 04:19 PM
olyshttp://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1126299879_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1126299879_large.jpg)

just the quick basic test-tower i've built using symmetry and array is costing me around 1.5 million polys ...

Looks lovely. But you don't need to render 1.5 million polys. Cut it in half we will never see the back side. :)

zman
10-11-2005, 04:44 AM
Daniel McMillan - hehe, check a bit further than that. I wish it was 1.5 million :)
I did cut the back and sorta optimized some of it, but i also added details ...
I am focusing on the city now, I think i will have to split the tower itself to a different scene and composit both parts(bottom and top) togheter
later on.

zman
10-12-2005, 08:03 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1129147428_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1129147428_large.jpg)

At this point I got a pretty good idea of how everything will be put togheter and I have a solid base. I think its a good time to setup the "final" lighting setup in general (with more minor tweaks in the end) so that I could make everything accordingly. there are 2 "key sidlights" that come from both sides, warm from the sun which is just starting to set and cold blue from the other side. the other lights are pretty much fill lights. Like I said, i wanna make this a sorta afternoon lighting so it won't be too dark but it could be lit locally with torches later on.

anyhoo, renders of the city are soon to come. I stil wanna add/tweak tons of stuff before i show :)

DaddyMack
10-12-2005, 08:31 PM
What a masterpiece! This is coming along in leaps and bounds zman:applause: I like the look of all the aspects you've created thus far and can't wait to see where you take it;)

ChristianHammer
10-12-2005, 11:39 PM
Keep up the fantastic work... I think it is going to be wonderful when you are complete. So far it is really looking good. The added scene details are just what it needs...

zman
10-13-2005, 11:50 AM
Thnx guys :D

I just hope I'll have the time to finish half of what i got in mind for this!
(Not saying that the deadline is too short or anything, I just stil have a fulltime job and personal life to worry about too :rolleyes: )

MattGyver
10-13-2005, 03:47 PM
Yeah, that personal life will get you every time. Gotta get rid of that. And try to cut down on that work addiction too. Unless you like that frivilous stuff like food and a place to live. :D I hear you. It's tough having fun with so much going on to distract you.

radu3
10-13-2005, 04:51 PM
this is just awsome...very very cool

i can't wait the final product!

keep it up!

pluMmet
10-14-2005, 08:58 AM
I just still have a fulltime job and personal life to worry about too :rolleyes:

Personal life? Where can I get one of those :bounce:
Anyhoo great stuff your doin'

zman
10-14-2005, 02:31 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1129300277_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1129300277_large.jpg)

Just thought I'd share this test render that I made overnight. There are tons of things to add and change here.

The scene is currently a bit over 4 million polys so I really gotta start optimizing and deleting any face that the camera doesnt actually see...

I think I'll start working on people next up. They will take an importnat role in this after all.

daWinky
10-14-2005, 02:49 PM
Wow, this is an impressive update:thumbsup: . You have done a lot of work in a short time and I really like the overall mood as well as your details so far. Keep up this good work:) !

-sabrina

authentic
10-14-2005, 05:07 PM
that's animpressive work you've done here. No crit for the moment; Waiting for updates.

good luck

MattGyver
10-14-2005, 05:42 PM
Wow. That's looking amazing. The only crit I can think of is that at the top of the image, you can clearly see that the tower abruptly ends there. I think it would look better if it either faded away into the clouds so you can't see that part or lower it a bit and have an under construction area at the top. Other than that ... :bowdown:

BobbEr
10-14-2005, 06:56 PM
really Great!!!

coochaki
10-14-2005, 07:14 PM
Nice man!
------------
no joy without alloy!

zman
10-17-2005, 11:46 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1129549606_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1129549606_large.jpg)

Adding details, deleting poligons,Adding details, deleting poligons,Adding details, deleting poligons (those that the camera cannot see like the back oh the houses / minitower and so on) ...
I'm beginning to think the real art here is to deal with the hardware limitation. I stil got so much stuff I wanna add but the render allready crashes sometimes (thats allwais my sign to keep finding stuff to optimize).

Anyways, I've also decided to lower the camera angle a bit. I think its alot better when its almost at the person level (at the cost of showing less of the city, but it actually makes the city look more dense). I've also re arranged the city houses to look more dense. Next up is to add a bit more plant types, add some torches, add more people, add some cammels, working more on the market, and then get back to the tower and start ruinning stuff :)

I got 2 GB of ram, I'm really pushing them to the limit ! :)

tuck
10-17-2005, 06:50 PM
Wow!
Amazing! It is really looking good. :thumbsup:good luck

Dutchman
10-17-2005, 06:59 PM
Wow Ziv, that's really daaaaamn stunning stuff! :scream: That mood, the level of detail, the lighting, the composition! You just got it absolutely damn right! :twisted:

Also cool to see that your in such a far stadium of the challenge (I only have some concepts in mind :D )!

That final rendertimes will be reaaaaally annoying yeah... Don't you think you could better cheat, by using multiple passes and compositing them together in Photoshop or so...? In my projects that does often work lot's better, faster, and more controlled... Then you do at least not have to tweak verything in the rendering-stage...

Have fun! I'll be watching you! :thumbsup:
-Gijs

dannyfalch
10-17-2005, 08:16 PM
Fantastic:thumbsup:

Very good and detailed work.
the old ancient style is realy working good.

palmtrees looks a bit thick, but the again i don't se a lot of palm trees in Denmark:)

good work!

Deankovitch
10-17-2005, 08:37 PM
Very good. Detailed modeling and the mood is very caracteristic of the midle orient. Congratulations so far and keep going

shakes
10-17-2005, 08:55 PM
wow, fantastic thread, and beautifully presented too! the modelling and texturing so far are really good-that building is incredible. look forward to following the rest.http://img420.imageshack.us/img420/4287/evilsmileysolo3jo.gif (http://imageshack.us)

arLutiK
10-18-2005, 08:44 AM
Wow an other one that doesn't sleep, what's your trick

Amazing works must be hell to render, I love it but I would rework the camera angle

But otherwise stunning image.:thumbsup:

ewb513
10-18-2005, 10:18 AM
I love your Babel tour. This will be spectacular anyway. Keep it this way!!

zman
10-22-2005, 04:19 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1129997970_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1129997970_large.jpg)

Hell.
Its been hell in the past few days trying to render what I got. I allready passed the limits long time ago and decided to split the scene this way - the city (bottom left), the market and sea (bottom middle to right), the tower, and effects in the end.
I've been focusing on the city lately, trying to keep it in very high detail level, yet optimizing whereever I can.
I've now reached the point when the rendering of the city alone crashes at some point. so I divide it into rendering the city in a different pass and the city trees in a different pass (lots of alpha maps take alot of the memory evan if the poly count is relatively low!), EVAN that crashes from time to time.
I'll end up rendering everything in the end (evan if it means tons of render regions and compositting togheter small chunks in PS), but I just had to share my desperation with you now that max crashed for about the 100'th time.

Anyways, 'nuff ranting for one day. I'm pretty much done with the city (xcpt for the rendering part). added lots of trees for the desertish atmosphere, torches to light areas locally and make things look more dense that way and break the repetetiveness look, and peaople.

I gave all the (low poly) ppl a basic rig so that I could make alot of varriations in their pose. Like I said before, this scene takes place at about the second that the tower was "attacked", thats why I wanna make some people look shocked, some ppl look scared and running around and some ppl are stil in their normal day occupation, not evan realizing yet what is happenning.

I hope I could start rendering everything togheter, I stil wanna add a few more details in the city before it is final, luckily I have a full time job, so I'll render all the passes (of just the city that is) during the week and have something to show next week. I really need to start moving on as I stil got tons of stuff to do ...

zman
10-22-2005, 09:20 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1130016008_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1130016008_large.jpg)

ok
I seem to find a way to lower the quality enaugh to be able to render everything at once for a preview.
Just tought I'de share it with you. sorry if its hard to make out the details cause of the low quality. this is less than half of the original resolution btw. ignore the empty part on the right part, its on my to-fill list.

lilCara
10-22-2005, 10:44 PM
Amazing details even at low-res ;)
Impressive, can't wait for a larger view.

darkjedi1929
10-23-2005, 06:06 AM
ZMan, you have a great concept here. Seeing the compostion purely from your final camera (camera 01), I don't think there is any need to fill up the area you indicate in last post. I mean, are the dwellings gonna be built right up to the sea? What happens when you have a high tide? IMO, and this is strictly IMO, yuor city is detailed enough as it is. Give yourself a break and look at it through the eyes of a viewer, not a 3D artist. I have noticed this happen to me a lot...sometimes, when you try and cram as much detail as possible into a scene to make it look spectacular, you end up cluttering the scene. The viewer does not know where to look. If you still want to fill the area on the right, make a primitive kind of a dock with fishing boats...anyway thats just me. Good Luck mate.

zman
10-26-2005, 07:29 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1130354952_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1130354952_large.jpg)

the city, rendered in many passes (different objects rendered seperatly and occlusion pass). It is pretty much done for now, I guess it will stil go through some major tweakings once I get other stuff done.
now its time to focus on the market and the sea.

morphar
10-26-2005, 09:13 PM
Now how did i miss this gem.

It looks really awesome, and i am loving the concept.

Will follow this much more closely, and you seem to have a great eye for details.
I am sure this will work out to be a very fascinating scenary.

Keep up the great work.

mosconariz
10-26-2005, 09:39 PM
Man! R U nuts???

U will end talking too many languages!


...

LOL

Your level of detail is out of this century!

I see, you made the tower to reach God (not for being as good as he), and then God helped you with the rest of the image, now I understand... :bounce:

zman
10-27-2005, 07:39 AM
hehe thnx
ya, I allwais believed its all about the small details :)
dammn hard with the huge end resolution :eek:

zman
10-28-2005, 03:04 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1130511889_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1130511889_large.jpg)

Not much new, just a test render of what I got so far on the dock / market in full resolution.
On the to-do list (probably in that order) - build some wooden planks for ships to dock, model more details for the market tents and start arranging them better with more stuff, add ppl, add animals, add big stuff falling into the water causing splashes and so on.

zman
10-29-2005, 09:27 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1130621216_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1130621216_large.jpg)

started shaping up the market.
stil lots of details (objects and ppl/animals) needed to fill the place.

zman
10-31-2005, 08:55 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1130795703_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1130795703_large.jpg)

I recall reading somewhere that man has allwais been facinated by 2 things - fire and water.
well I keep the fire part for the end, Now I've started with the water. This is why I wanted to catch the ocean too in the composition. I've made some splashes caused by stuff that started to fall apart from the tower.
I'll stil put the "messy" part on hold a bit as I have to finish the market first and then finish up the tower as a whole, but after that comes the fun part of bringing it all apart :)

danielkenobi
10-31-2005, 11:52 PM
Really nice image Man. You have work alot. I dont really like how it looks the ground in the Modeling: babylon dock / market , but everithing else is just perfect. Good luck.

JocHaan
11-01-2005, 12:29 AM
nice, very spectacular indeed.
good luck :thumbsup:

shakes
11-01-2005, 05:56 PM
OMG...insane detail!! just incredible work. I'm speechless!

morphar
11-01-2005, 08:30 PM
The palm trees look a little still, when babylon is going up in smoke and meteors are flaming down from the sky i think they should be a bit more "windy"

Also some pieces of the tower in the air so we can get a feel of what is causing the big splashes :D

ThierryS
11-02-2005, 07:31 AM
Gee there's so much going on that illustration, just awsome man, it's taking an incredible proportion, "Babelonian" proportions :D . Congrats, nothing I can critic on it.:applause:

zman
11-02-2005, 09:16 PM
Thnx guys :beer:
I really hope I'll have enaugh time to get what I have in my mind into the final image in time :banghead:

morphar - Thats a good point about the trees. I was actually thinking that myself ! I allready "bent" them and it looks much more dynamic. will show soon.

melkao
11-02-2005, 09:59 PM
oooohhh mo why you did that, i hate you, it makes me looks like an amateur....excelletn work:cry::banghead::beer:

pluMmet
11-03-2005, 08:15 AM
The palm trees look a little still

Well zman- I'd say that the sails of the ships as well as the Canopes all look like they are not effected by the wind.

Great work non the less. And what is the exact final resolution of this work :thumbsup:

TomerEp
11-03-2005, 08:57 AM
nice going man, I like the fundation :)

zman
11-03-2005, 10:40 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1131061220_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1131061220_large.jpg)

OK, "my" babylon city is allmost done now. I could go on with the details in it for another month but I stil got tons of stuff to do on other parts of the image and only 30 days to go ...
I stil wanna add alot of mess in the market place as it is the crouded place and the ppl are allready outside and some of them are the first to see this comming (some are not as it is just happenning. I'm gonna take this weekend to add final details in the market (stuff laying around, torches, flags and anything that would make sence) and start adding some dust and other stuff.
I'll probably do all the renders during the week.
starting next weekend its back to the tower and some specialFX :)

sorry for the bad JPG quality
(I had to save this image on low quality to keep it at 150K ).

darkjedi1929
11-04-2005, 03:01 AM
A-m-a-z-i-n-g

MattGyver
11-04-2005, 05:01 PM
:eek: Wow. I'm most definately impressed. You rock! :buttrock:

shakes
11-04-2005, 06:03 PM
you are quite insane zman..the detail!! I've got no idea how your computer is coping with this! incredible stuff.

zman
11-05-2005, 12:03 PM
thnx guys :)

shakes - surprisingly, I can evan show everything at once in the viewport (evan with some textures) and it runs (relatively) smooth !
the big (huge) problam is rendering it ! keeps running out of memeory all the time and I keep comming with stuff to optimize and smaller chunks to render at once (and put back togheter in PS).

zman
11-05-2005, 05:07 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1131214050_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1131214050_large.jpg)

well its weekend again.
about 30 days left for the deadline. this is the deadline I gave myself to work on the city. I could easily go instane with the details for another month but I do have to remind myself constantly that I stil have the rest of the image to work on.
anyways, added more ppl running around, standing shocked or falling from the impact, also added some animals, some more items that fit the time and place and flags that will also take a role later on on the tower. since babylon was the center where all cultures meet and work togheter, I'll make alot of more different flags that symbolize different cultures.
here are some closeups on some parts of the market.

zman
11-05-2005, 05:11 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1131214305_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1131214305_large.jpg)

babylon city. done.
at least the modeling / texturing of it.
now I have all the week to face rendering it (in very small chunks that will be placed carefully togheter in PS)
I will also render occlusion passes and effects (dust and stuff like that).
aint gonna be easy.
I'm actually pretty surprized I was able to show everything at once in the viewport :)

arturro
11-06-2005, 08:46 AM
Now that is what I call spectacular...
your computer makes a spectacular work as well:twisted:

hope you'll manage to render this all:bounce:

Dutchman
11-06-2005, 11:04 AM
Wow Ziv! Your the best! :buttrock: You've not even finished the image, but it's very, very, very spectacular yet! :bounce: I can't understand how you can have the patience to build s much stuff.... I'd have gone insane after modeling s much stuff... :shrug: ;)

In every case I'm sure it will be it worth after all! I just really can't wait for future steps of your work! It'll be awesome to see a photoreal appearance of the well-known Tower of Babel! :thumbsup:

Good luck to you and your (computer's ;) ) memory! :scream:
-Gijs

shakes
11-06-2005, 06:00 PM
thnx guys :)
the big (huge) problam is rendering it ! keeps running out of memeory all the time and I keep comming with stuff to optimize and smaller chunks to render at once (and put back togheter in PS).

I'm sort of glad you said that! I can't imagine a computer that could render this in one go..
compositing everything in photoshop is great fun anyway!

zman
11-07-2005, 08:25 AM
arturro - lol yeah, I'm really squizzing him to da limits :wip:

Dutchman - Thnx, patience IS the key

shakes - yeah, I cant wait to the point when i got all the chunks and passes in PS and that will be the only work I got left to do

Weider
11-07-2005, 04:25 PM
wow this is one of my favorite image!!! awesome level of details. wish you best luck

melkao
11-08-2005, 03:47 PM
Spectacular city:thumbsup:

zman
11-09-2005, 07:06 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1131566771_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1131566771_large.jpg)

Finnaly !
After rendering seperatly quite a few bits a pieces of this, I can finnaly put the city render togheter to one pic.
I stil need to render some other passes of the city and make some PS work. I'll post lots of closeups on all the details when I will be totally done with the city which hopefully will be before the weekend will be done.
I really went too far with the city ;)

Dutchman
11-11-2005, 05:27 PM
Wooooow Ziv...! I don't know if it's possible to be a 120%-fan of you ( :twisted: ), but it seems it is proved! :scream: Amazingly cool details... I'm really getting more and more curious what kind of final mood your image will give...! Good luck on the Photoshoping, in every case!

And some little question: is that background a temporary one, or 'the final'? At this moment those mountains look a bit like a very well known windows-wallpaper...?!

I'm ready for new updates! :scream:

zman
11-11-2005, 06:04 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1131735887_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1131735887_large.jpg)

Occlusion, fog, fire and other passes and fixes were rendered and compossited in the last 2 days. I could easily spend another month going crazy on the small details of the city but I have waay too much stuff left to do and only about 3 weeks to go...

**** plz note that I had to save this JPG at a really LOW quality to get this file to less than 150K so keep that in mind (it really ruinned the quality) *****
I will probably post some better quality close ups later tonight.

zman
11-11-2005, 06:06 PM
Bah double post :banghead: :banghead:

shakes
11-11-2005, 06:33 PM
Gotta say it again- simply incredible. I love and admire big vast detailed scenes like this- I wouldn't have the patience! reminds me of czarnyrobert's crazy detailed work. congrats!!
http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=czarnyrobert

melkao
11-11-2005, 06:56 PM
excellent composition, i like a lot the dust and illumination.....great work man:thumbsup:

zman
11-12-2005, 04:47 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1131817621_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1131817621_large.jpg)

OK, back to the tower, here's a render of all I got so far put togheter. I've re-tweaked the lighting on the tower.

This whole work really got me thinking about the meanning behind the whole babylon story. You could say that babylon mainly simbolizes 2 major things (at least for me) -

1 - peace. when you think about it, this was really the last moment in human history when menkind was united and worked togheter to achieve a common goal (2). after this event, god gave us many different languages to create confusion and seperation. mankind had some sort of seperation forever since.

2 - The will to break the bounderies and advance. (need I say more ?)


planned things to do and timeline -

this week to weekend - add as much extra details to the tower as I can to break the repetetivness (such as minor changes in designs, torches, flags, give me other suggestions :) .

next week to weekend - start wreaking some parts on the tower and start working on the effects.

last week to weekend - work some more on the effects and start to finalazie stuff which include mainly color correcting and photoshop enhancing.

Its gonna be tight, very tight :\

darkjedi1929
11-12-2005, 06:58 PM
WOW!:applause: This is gonna win the challenge dude....congrats with the dream machine.

mmoir
11-12-2005, 07:11 PM
Hey Ziv,

Very nice image so far, this is really excellent:bounce: :bounce: . The top half of the image looks a little plain now but once you get it finished with the special fx I am sure it will look spectacular.

ilusiondigital
11-12-2005, 08:02 PM
Wahoo, i miss this thread. Wonderfull image, i really love this one.

Cheers

daWinky
11-12-2005, 08:33 PM
Not much to say about this...lean back, relax...this is spectacular:thumbsup: ! Impressive work, congrats!:applause:

-sabrina

cHum
11-12-2005, 09:22 PM
Cool!
It's a original concept. :thumbsup:
I thing the tower will be more break.
Good Job.

C<hU/m

nebezial
11-12-2005, 09:26 PM
this in my opinion is one of the ten most beautiful 3d works i haveever seen

lilCara
11-12-2005, 10:54 PM
this in my opinion is one of the ten most beautiful 3d works i haveever seen
And it's not even finished yet :)

Can't wait to see it after you've completed the tower and the fx! :thumbsup:

JamesMK
11-13-2005, 10:11 AM
Dang, this thing kicks ass, zman :thumbsup:

Clever composition, very nice "tower-disappears-in-the-sky" effect, and a very spiffy ambience on the ground with those hints of sand in the air and the richly colourful population going about their business.

My only crit is that there is quite a big difference in terms of lighting when I compare the ground scenery to the tower itself, so there's a bit of a clash there, making those two elements seem separated somehow.

Overall it's a great image, and truly matching the brief.


.

zman
11-13-2005, 05:43 PM
thndx alot guys ! :rolleyes:

dark_jedi_1929 - tell it to the judge ;)


mmoir - yeah, thats the plan. thnx

JamesMK - thnx alot man, I love your entry too (as I told ya a few times :)
and you are totally right about the lighting, the tower itself is now rendered completly seperatl. i took exactly one minute to put it togheter with the rest of the image just to test it now ( u can evan see how I erased quickly the top part of the mountains). I will work more on putting all the elements seamlessly in the end.

shakes
11-13-2005, 06:44 PM
this looks fantastic.spectacular indeed! one thing zman, and my biblical memory is quite foggy- why aren't there any people in the tower? it seems a tiny bit odd, and having noone in the tower seperates the composition a little- but maybe that's how you want it to be , to make the symbol truly stand out?

kieljan
11-13-2005, 07:00 PM
Wow - i like it - i think it really fits the theme. Good luck.

zman
11-13-2005, 07:05 PM
shakes - I've tried to place a few ppl on the stairs. they are soo small there they are hardly noticable evan in the full resolution !
and btw, the camera angle wouldnt allow to see ppl on the tower itself anyways.

zman
11-13-2005, 09:42 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1131921729_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1131921729_large.jpg)

ok, before starting to ruin the tower, I am making some more variation in the details.
I will also spread some props on it like torches and flags of all the cultures next.

Skyraider3D
11-14-2005, 01:14 PM
Awesome going Zman!
Now blow some stuff up :)

zman
11-14-2005, 05:53 PM
haaa thnx (again) sky :bounce:

ya know me, I gotta first feel I've reached a ""reasonable"" detail level before i can move on :D

velascodearmas
11-17-2005, 08:29 PM
huh, this really is spectacular! I love all the detail that youre putting in there. Looks like hours and hours of work... good job! Very curious to see what the final looks like.

zman
11-17-2005, 10:18 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1132269522_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1132269522_large.jpg)

I've spent the last few days adding more details to the tower itself. I also made lots of different flags of all the cultures and some torches. I've actually placed them one by one and gave them some variation so they wont look repetetive and clonned (wind effects for flags and different fire/light settings for torches).

Here are a few quick viewport shots. the render doesnt crash now cause I am working with alot of instances (so it doesnt metter too much I am on the 3.5 million polycount :| ) but it gives me other issues. I hope I'll post a render tomorrow and get on to the effects.

CryingHorn
11-18-2005, 11:53 AM
Nice modeling, placing so many lights isn't a very good solution because the rendering increases very much, esp when you have so much polys and the final resolution is so high. You should try to play with self illuminated textures if you want the windows to shine, it's just a one of lots of other ways, anyway it's looking good so far :thumbsup:

Dodgeas3d
11-18-2005, 01:05 PM
This is very expensive scene, its pretty hard to handle this... hope this will come to a day light, couse this is realy spectacular! Goodluck!

zman
11-18-2005, 02:00 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1132326045_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1132326045_large.jpg)

here are some close ups on the tower's details

zman
11-18-2005, 02:03 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1132326203_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1132326203_large.jpg)

And here's what i got so far compossited in.

This is the last time you can see babylon tower standing peacfully like that ;)

next up - effects and mess.

kreuz
11-18-2005, 03:15 PM
WoW! greate rendering and texture
what renderer do you use for this shot? scanline with max or?

Climax
11-18-2005, 03:43 PM
Very impressive indeed! Lots of great details, i like the environment! Hope to see more soon :beer:

gardogg
11-18-2005, 03:48 PM
Fantastic work here man. I'm super impressed.

By the way, I didn't know that instances make it easier on the render. I thought this might be the case but wasn't sure. Now I know.

Dangeruss
11-18-2005, 04:19 PM
FANTASTIC!!

One smal crit is that with the sky colors you're using, the blue reflected light on the distant mountains looks off. I'd go more with a very desaturated warm purple-ish color. Essentially adding some reds and yellows to the mix. Other than that, the image and concept is well... Spectacular!

alancamara
11-18-2005, 04:27 PM
Amazing work :applause: Great details, excellent modeling and composition, congrats. :applause:

rawwad
11-18-2005, 05:36 PM
WoW, This looks fantastic! I like your vision of Babylon tower, details are amazing. Keep on rocking :applause:

Dutchman
11-18-2005, 06:08 PM
Damn, Ziv, you just dropped me of my chair! :twisted: What an mazingly cool details you just added! And that last renders you showed us was just amazing! It looks really photoreal! :thumbsup:

Great lighting also: that warm light on the one side, and that cold light on the other side! :) Amazing! :scream:

Again good luck, mate! :bowdown:

shakes
11-18-2005, 06:15 PM
super incredible work you crazy boy! the detail is astonishing.

medunecer
11-18-2005, 06:19 PM
Really spectacular! Congrats! Great work and idea!

bloggs
11-18-2005, 07:17 PM
Nice work man the only crit i could give at the moment is that it looks abit clean but i'm sure on to that! like the concept an oldy but a goody.

checked out your website really love you dragon did you render that with mental Ray?

cheers


john

dannyfalch
11-18-2005, 10:47 PM
love it!

fantastic environment and level of detail.
congrats!

good work!

Jaba153
11-19-2005, 03:30 AM
ziv that tower is fantastik great work here ! congrats..lot of detail this is a very nice one! the only thing it's maybe desaturate a little bit the montains on the background..anyway this one of my favorites!cheers
jaba

authentic
11-19-2005, 09:35 AM
Impressive work. Great impression of height. Maybe you can work a little the frontier between clouds and mountains at the right.

ActionHank
11-19-2005, 09:47 AM
one very impressive image! :thumbsup:

Jelmer
11-19-2005, 10:40 AM
amazing work:eek: , i think this is one of the best entries so far, great detail

AndyH
11-19-2005, 01:32 PM
Wow! Thats very impressive! I dont know how i missed this entry!

The sense of scale is excellent, and the tall structure contrasts superbly with the small village town.

Nice work!

claudiojordao
11-19-2005, 02:56 PM
Wow... this is just amazing man... congratulations.

zman
11-19-2005, 08:14 PM
thnx everyone :)

gardogg (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=155341) - yeah man, you can render milions of polygons if they are instanced.

Dangeruss - yeah, I'm leaving lots of color correction stuff to the end.

bloggs - not sure what ya mean by too clean. yeah, my dragon is rendered in MR.

Andy H - thnx man, I put so much work on the city mainly to get that sence of scale. I like your entry too btw ;)

ihamid
11-19-2005, 08:35 PM
hiya zman ..the scene is coming out incredible!:bounce: :bounce: ! .. very detailed indeed!... just the blue mountains are the only off thing ..then again its a small one!cheers!

Atris
11-20-2005, 07:59 AM
Hi! It's looking very great! I really like it! Keep it up! I wish you good luck! :)

eddieellis
11-20-2005, 08:50 AM
im impressed dude, something you would see on the big screen :drool:

theuni
11-20-2005, 05:19 PM
Hi,

great idea for a spectacular image... but your snow mountains in the background don`t really harmonize with your palms in the foreground... just my humble opinion... besides great work, keep going! :applause:

zman
11-20-2005, 08:53 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1132523584_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1132523584_large.jpg)

A close up on the spiral clouds that surround the upper part of the tower.

zman
11-20-2005, 08:57 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1132523853_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1132523853_large.jpg)

A close up on birds flying away before the mess will start.
I plan on making lots of more birds later on. I sorta have problams getting them in the right sence of scale because they are just small dots to the full image if I make them smaller than this ...

zman
11-20-2005, 09:00 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1132524027_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1132524027_large.jpg)

A close up on the "source" of all the mess that is about to come.
It also justifies the blue lighting I had all along coming from the upper left :)

zman
11-20-2005, 09:06 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1132524391_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1132524391_large.jpg)

Ok, this is what I got so far.
I was testing and trying to figure out what will work best for this image all weekend. I came to the conclusion that I cant do what I originally planned (with lots of fireballs thrown into the tower) because It will get the composittion too busy and mainly because I dont have enaugh time to get into the detail level I wanted if I did go ahed with it.
I'm actually stil trying to figure out what I wanna do with what I got now (considering I got 15 days left). I am pretty happy with it so I may not make any more major changes and focus on more local fixes and additions.

morphar
11-20-2005, 09:55 PM
Been a little while since i peeked in here.

Seems like you moved forward, indeed you did ;)

The thunderstorm looks very good, and as you mention it justifies the coloring. Looks sweet.

As for you dropping all the fireball mayhem, i am sad to hear :<

But yes, you are under time preasure, but i think something should be added.

Maybe not as intense as you wanted in the first place, maybe just one big fireball incomming. I like the current feel of it, as its the moment just before all hell breaks loose. Like you know its gonna go very very very very wrong, but it just hasnt happened yet.

Im not sure if it would stress the composition too much, if you added a single incomming fireball. But i sure would like to see it :D:D:D:D

Awesome job so far ;)

Better hit the sack for now, but i surely will return ;D

pluMmet
11-21-2005, 07:15 AM
Well Zman- This has turned into a phenomenal image. You just kept pecking away until it turned into a fantastic piece of work. Wonderfull!

juan_tamad
11-21-2005, 08:51 AM
Hi Zman. This is a very beautiful piece of art you have. The upper part of the tower and the clouds are outstanding and the whole tower itself is well made. Keep up the good work

Elsie
11-21-2005, 09:05 AM
Bejeezus that's fantastic. Looks like a painting, how on earth did I miss this one? I love the slight mist, and the colour choices are beautiful. Good luck!

zman
11-21-2005, 07:22 PM
morphar - sorry, no fireballs. I do have another idea I'm cooking for this. doing some tests, hope they go well ;)

pluMmet, juan_tamad, and Elsie, thnx :thumbsup:

melkao
11-21-2005, 07:29 PM
Wow man thats amazing...excellent work:thumbsup:

dern
11-21-2005, 07:35 PM
Wow, that sky is tremendous. Love the lightning. Great work!

zman
11-22-2005, 08:02 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1132693339_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1132693339_large.jpg)

I've been doing tons of tweaks and minor additions to the sky details. I'm afraid that by this point I might have lost my objectivness with this image and I dont wanna go overboard with the skies in general and especially with the effects on the right. I keep trying to limit myself not to get it overbright and to keep it fitting in.

here's a closeup on it and how it works with the entire composittion.
what do you think ?

I should mention that I'm gonna try to do something to the tower this weekend that might change the composittion alot, but most chances are I'll stick to what I got now (besides alot of more local tweakings).

aliasali
11-22-2005, 08:19 PM
man awesome! i hadnt chek ur thread out! but sth is bothering me,and thats the scale of the building,with that low height it cant reach to clouds that easy! i mean it should be more HUGE! ..i donno,this is how i feel,a personal comment,i cant dig the prespective!:D

Dutchman
11-22-2005, 09:15 PM
I still don't get it, Ziv, that you only got 10 pages of replies...?! It should have been at least 10 times as much! :scream:

Really great updates, Ziv! I really like the level of detail and the almost painted look! :) Especially that atmosphere looks gorgous! :thumbsup:

But: you asked for critique, then you'll get it ;) :
- I think the front of the scene looks a bit too bright when comparing the back; it kind of seperates the two things from each other... That's why I'd get that forground a bit darker, and maybe even a bit 'colder'. That makes you sure the two parts belong together.
- The mountains on the background look a bit simple to me... (that snowy ones) Are you planning to change them (are they just temporary at the moment?), or will this be the final look... I myself think that it's a bit weird to have such a 'tropical' look while the snowed mountains are so close...

I've tried, but I can't find more points of crique... I'm sorry! :twisted:

Maybe you could post a Photoshop-screenshot ones... It must look very imposant to see your layer setup! :scream: (I find it weird in every case that you PC holds working on such a resolution with such a level of detail... :D )

Good luck Ziv! You're (one of) the best! :bounce:
-Gijs

TedTerranova
11-22-2005, 09:18 PM
This one looks great. I really like what you did to the sky. the warmer sky on the right makes a nice contrast to the darker cooler clouds on the left. I love the birds circling, that always makes me think something bad has or is about to happen. This could be the opening shot to a film or the cover of a book and I know that I would be drawn to grab that book off the shelf. Really meets the Spectacular image idea. Great work.

SILMAETH
11-22-2005, 09:33 PM
Amazing work! one of my favorite in the contest.
I agree with Dutchman about the front and back part of your image, the front needs to be more contrasted, I mean the left side should be more in the dark.
The sky effects are really good
Brilliant work ! congratulation ! keep it up!

zman
11-23-2005, 06:18 AM
Madlight_1988[/b]]man awesome! i hadnt chek ur thread out! but sth is bothering me,and thats the scale of the building,with that low height it cant reach to clouds that easy! i mean it should be more HUGE! ..i donno,this is how i feel,a personal comment,i cant dig the prespective!:D

Hmm I did put alot of effrot in the city so that the sence of scale would turn out right. Maybe when the image is viewed in lower resolutions it doesnt come out well enaugh. did you notice there's a 4-levels temple below the tower that isnt evan as high as 1 level of the tower ?


Dutchman - thnx man :thumbsup:
I'll look into this more when I do the final color/levels correction next week. I am stil gonna try something tomorrow that might resolve this anyway. as for the mountains, its something I'll try to change/replace If I have enaugh time for it. not because its wierd (to have snowy mountains as backround on a desert location) but because something else might work better.
oh, and remind me next week, I'll post just a screenshot of all the layers I got from all the psd's :eek:

Novacaine - thnx man :)

btw, as for the birds, I fear they might get the tower to lose it's sence of scale a bit. I dont wanna scale them down too much cause they will be a black dot on a lower resolution. what do you think ?

SILMAETH - :bounce:

shakes
11-23-2005, 05:27 PM
fantastic work on the sky..you are a true master! not sure about whether you need the birds- I know they often fly in group, but they look a little too tightly grouped there.
such an impressive image!

melkao
11-23-2005, 05:53 PM
mmmmmm.....just wow:banghead:

Skyraider3D
11-23-2005, 08:38 PM
Very nice!

KenSaba
11-24-2005, 12:18 AM
Seems youre puting a serious effort on it. Incredible details!

Good luck!

Priest_
11-24-2005, 04:28 AM
That's really nice work. Can't wait to see the finished product.

SONIC-X
11-24-2005, 09:00 AM
That is an amazing scene.I lovr the lightning efect in the clouds.

funkyboss
11-24-2005, 09:30 AM
Impressive work, very clean.
So much details!! pheeww
Good luck till the end:)
cya

mickatt
11-24-2005, 09:42 AM
Really nice work and interpretation!!

nice details on the foreground

I think you should add more swirl effect on the cloud. this would make a more dramatical effect

However nice composition

MeLaL
11-24-2005, 01:05 PM
i just joined the competition and was looking around at posts.. and yours really caught my eye. A realy good piece and wonderful concept. I agree with the others, your background and foreground should be darker, to blend in with the tower. They are way to bright right now.

Strannik
11-25-2005, 07:47 AM
Nice bg color

zman
11-25-2005, 10:27 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1132961244_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1132961244_large.jpg)

I'm experimenting with an idea I had that could solve some of the issues I have.
its not gonna look exactly the way I am showing in the screen, but thats the idea.
kinda hard to tweak render good volumetrix in such high res.
I hope I get the results I want by sunday or I probably drop it and finalize the image.

Gunilla
11-26-2005, 06:39 AM
I've been following your work for a while and it's really wonderful! The spiral thing can make it even more so if you pull it off - good luck for the final steps with this :thumbsup:

melkao
11-26-2005, 01:58 PM
if that spiral are clouds....the final image will look more spectacular:eek:

mmoir
11-26-2005, 02:13 PM
Ziv,

Nice work on your image:thumbsup: :thumbsup: , don't know what the spiral rage will be but it looks interesting . To me it should be something ethereal and not to solid . Promising image and good luck.

zman
11-26-2005, 06:24 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1133033077_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1133033077_large.jpg)

It is quite nice to have 2 computers to work on at the same time.
the above screenshot of the particles only showed 10% of the particles. I have set it to use quite alot of particles at a very VERY low density, resulting in a very soft and "dusty" look (as oppose to the solid crisp look). I am now rendering it at the full resolution and thats gonna take about 70 hours(!).
Meanwhile, I'm doing lots of general and local twaeks to this piece and I'll see in a few days how (if at all) to implement the spiral dust render.

I've added another slight fog pass to balance the image, did lots of color adjustments, started adding some local cracks to the tower(more to come) and added rays of light comming from the right. the rays are something I had in my mind for quite sometime. For me, if the blue lightning thing on the left symbolizes god's vengence, the rays on the right simbolize his love and forgiveness to mankind (after all, he never gives up on us).


I've decided its time to post a higher resolution image to better show the details so that I could get more specific crits and directions from you as I fear I may have lost my objectivness working on this piece for so long.
this image is 33% of the original resolution -


http://www.zivcg.com/babylon_med.jpg


.

zman
11-27-2005, 02:13 PM
Gunilla\melkao - thnx. I hope so :)

mmoir - yeah, not too solid is the key here, its why I have sooooo many particles there with a density and regularity of allmost zero. it is also the reason my computer has been rendering in the past 45 hours and only passes a third of the images :eek: :eek: :eek:

JeroenDStout
11-27-2005, 03:01 PM
I don't like the foreground much - it's a bit too 'vague' and the people aren't real enough.

BUT

The tower in all it's glory is, without doubt, one of the best things I've seen. It looks amazingly great. Really does. Wonderful.

Very good work! :thumbsup:

melkao
11-28-2005, 03:15 PM
oh noooo! i hate you...why you do this to me why?:sad:

zman
11-28-2005, 05:31 PM
Ummmm

THNX, I guess .... :eek: :argh:

:beer:

shakes
11-28-2005, 06:35 PM
this is a jawdropping image-I'd be shocked if this isn't in the top three. really impressive.

Skyraider3D
11-28-2005, 09:02 PM
Looks awesome!
But I don't know how much time you have left on this, but I think it's time for some heavy fireworks at the bottom of the tower :)
Also I still feel the snowy mountains don't fit and would look better more sand coloured... Give it a go :)

bloggs
11-28-2005, 10:01 PM
hay man it coming along. i know this is probly abit to late to say this but it would have been nice to have the tower craking and debis falling people scatering! the people below seam to be reacting to somthing.

cheers


john

zman
11-29-2005, 09:05 AM
shakes - thnx man :beer:

Skyraider3D - thnx again, there won't be any heavy fireworks, only "smoke / dust works" on the tower. its being rendered since friday and I hope it will finish rendering by this friday :eek: .
I did a few quick dune tests instead of the snowy mountains and I couldnt come up with a quick good result so I'll stay with this. the spiral dust thing is supposed to hide more of it anyways in the end...

bloggs - I've allready started making some cracks (as texture only) mostly at the bottom and first floors of the tower. If the spiral thing works as I planned, I might add some bricks/stones/flags/other parts flying by. but it will only finish rendering in a few days so I wont have time for much.

MattGyver
11-29-2005, 07:56 PM
Abso-freakin-lutely amazing, man. I'm just in awe.

SILMAETH
11-29-2005, 08:40 PM
Really impressive! I should say Spectacular!
I think the bump of the front building is a little strong, it should be softer more sandy.
If you aren't among the winners....

cat_dancing
11-30-2005, 05:53 PM
good luck ziv

awesome work . the enviroment and texture work are amazing

Dbeyond
12-01-2005, 01:36 PM
Really spectacular! I feel breathtaking!

Good luck, man!:applause:

zman
12-01-2005, 04:36 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1133458583_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1133458583_large.jpg)

fresh from the oven ...
Checked my other computer and it finnaly finished rendering (see the image how long it took o_0 ).

Unfortunatly I couldnt find a way to put this in without ruinning the composition so I'll be dropping this idea.
I'm gonna take this weekend to finalize this image and submit the final on saturday.

alancamara
12-01-2005, 04:54 PM
Amazing, really a great work here. Good work with the particles, what's software, 3D max? i'm impatient to see the final, congrats :applause:

ilusiondigital
12-01-2005, 05:26 PM
MY VOTE FOR YOU MATE :thumbsup:

zman
12-02-2005, 02:50 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1133495424_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1133495424_large.jpg)

added some cracks all over the tower.
mainly in the lower stories where the pressure is higher.

imbusion
12-02-2005, 09:44 AM
5 and a half days to render that smoke/fog... and it won't work?... thats rough! Any chance we could get a peek at what that did look like in the composition, even though you decided that it would be best to take it out? I understand this is crunch time, though... don't worry about showing us if its going to be any trouble.

I wish you the best of luck here... I'm continually amazed by the sheer scale of this project here.

Cheers!

claudiojordao
12-02-2005, 11:00 AM
Gee zman, I was so curious to see your composition with that great spiral... can't you show us anyway.
Your work is really fabulous, congratulations friend.

zman
12-02-2005, 01:37 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1133534269_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1133534269_large.jpg)

Just rendered another layer of dust.
This one is much "lower" than the first one. I figured most of the dust is closer to the ground (when everyone is running and the ground is shaking) so I made this layer.
It wont be a very noticable difference but it adds.

zman
12-02-2005, 03:40 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1133541654_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1133541654_large.jpg)

since the tower is just starting to crack up and crumble, I'm adding a little bit of dust to the bottom of the first floors (again, where the pressure is the strongest).

zman
12-02-2005, 04:02 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1133542917_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1133542917_large.jpg)

here it is compositted in.
need some feedback on it (more / less ?) cause I think I am totally losing objectivness over this piece allready :)

mmoir
12-02-2005, 04:13 PM
Hey Ziv,

It is hard to tell that the tower is cracking up , I do get the cracking up feeling by the dust after I read that is what you were trying to do. Just a thought, maybe the dust could blowing out the holes of the bottom floors more. Now , the dust just seem to be hovering over the ground a little too much.
I must say you have an impressive image:drool: , and I look forward to the final.

Nomad
12-02-2005, 04:21 PM
Looks great so far :thumbsup:

Good luck for the final image :bounce:

zman
12-03-2005, 06:20 PM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1133637602_medium.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/11/8617/8617_1133637602_large.jpg)

It was just another silent, peaceful day in Babylon, the center of all cultures, 5,500 years ago when all of a sudden, clouds strangely started to gather over the Tower of Babel. Most people kept at their daily business, not even realizing that the very existence of the tower had angered God. The first to realize what was happening were the animals. They sensed something was wrong and begun panicking slightly before there were even signs of the chaos that was about to hit the tower. After a short while the sky started to shape in an unnatural way, being very bright on one side and dark on the other. This was in fact a revelation of God himself. At this point most people still didn't know what was going on and while some stood shocked and terrified, others were fascinated by the spectacular view. Some people still kept at their daily occupations ignoring all the signs. Moments later, the ground which the tower was built upon started trembling, increasingly shaking the very foundations of the tower. Thats the point when this image takes place - just about the last second the Tower of Babylon stood tall, when it just started cracking up (the lower stories beared the highest pressure) and a few moments before it collapsed and changed the face of human history forever.
While watching helplessly as mankinds' greatest creation began crumbling into nothing more than bricks and dust the confusion just got much greater as God started to spread different languages among the cultures resulting in anger and forever separating mankind into many groups.


[disclaimer] I did a lot of research about this story and about the tower design before I even began working on it. I've tried to keep things generally authentic but also to give them my own twist.


A few notes about the symbolism in this piece -


Peace - I think the whole concept of Babylon, the city where all the cultures lived together speaking the same language and worked together for a shared goal, is the strongest symbol of peace. When you think about it, This was the last time mankind ever lived in peace.

Advances/Innovation - The Tower of Babylon was probably one of mankinds greatest creations. It probably seemed impossible to create a few years before the construction begun, same as things and achievements we make today seemed impossible yesterday. I think this tower is a symbol of mankinds will to always push his boundaries and break the limits (even as far as to reach the height of God and maybe beyond it).

God - The bible is filled with stories about how mankind angered God and got punished for it but also were forgiven for their sins. I've tried to symbolize that in the sky and in the lighting: one side of the sky is dark and raging while the other is warm and "hopeful". The general lighting setup is the same - cold from one side and warm from the other. The end result of this story is the same: God was angry, but he decided to only shake the ground around the tower itself to bring it down and not to harm people who were far enough from it.



That is it !!
I would like to seriusly thank everyone who supported me on this in the past 2 months! the critique especially helps when working on a single frame for so long and losing objectivity.

good luck to everyone !

mmoir
12-03-2005, 09:41 PM
Hey Ziv,

Congrats on a great image:thumbsup: , the light effect on the right side of the image looks great. Good luck .

zman
12-03-2005, 09:53 PM
Thnx m8
here's a higher quality image (about 33% of full image).

http://www.zivcg.com/babylon_med_final.jpg



and some close ups

Tower cracking up -
http://img2.tapuz.co.il/forums/67035303.jpg

Tower cracking up 2 -
http://img2.tapuz.co.il/forums/67035374.jpg


Market mess -
http://img2.tapuz.co.il/forums/67035404.jpg

market / dock -
http://img2.tapuz.co.il/forums/67035456.jpg

Wrath of god -
http://img2.tapuz.co.il/forums/67035484.jpg

skies of hope -
http://img2.tapuz.co.il/forums/67035509.jpg
[/url]
(http://img2.tapuz.co.il/forums/67035456.jpg)[url="http://img2.tapuz.co.il/forums/67035303.jpg"]

imbusion
12-03-2005, 10:03 PM
*jaw drops*

I've been following this for awhile, but still... it gets me every time...

Phenomenal!... in every sense of the word!

Congratulations!

Staszek
12-03-2005, 10:37 PM
true thats greate picture

hodongla
12-04-2005, 03:45 AM
Grand scale scene.
i feel your passion..~
Good luck.

myspectacular
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=293629&page=2&pp=15
myhome
www.hodings.com (http://www.hodings.com)

zman
12-04-2005, 06:35 PM
:thumbsup: thnx guys :thumbsup:

raultabajara
12-04-2005, 06:56 PM
Great ideia, and great production!

only now i see you contest!
Very good!
good luck!

:)

MattGyver
12-04-2005, 07:32 PM
Ziv! Amazing image. Congratulations. I would have liked to have seen it getting torn apart by giant fire balls, but the story and the image together make it great the way it is. Best of luck to you and great work! :beer:

Atris
12-05-2005, 10:23 AM
Hi! The very great image! I really like your version of Babylon! In my view that is one of the most impressive in its scale! The magnificent atmosphere of the city! Congratulations! All the best and Good luck! :)

SONIC-X
12-05-2005, 10:40 AM
This is awesome.

Good luck.

Georgie
12-05-2005, 10:59 AM
Great composition! Although I didn't have time to look around enough, yours is the best I've seen so far in this CGChallenge.

JamesMK
12-05-2005, 11:08 AM
Excellent!

Not only a great image overall (the colours are very nice for instance), but also one that is actually compliant with the brief, being spectacular and everything.

Congrats on a job very well done.


.

(o)ne
12-05-2005, 11:15 AM
Man, that's GREAT! CONGRATULATIONS :applause:

parasolarz
12-05-2005, 11:27 AM
really nice modeling,
good luck

GonzaloGolpe
12-05-2005, 12:51 PM
Spectcular image and well-done!:thumbsup: Congrats and good luck to you!

alancamara
12-05-2005, 02:13 PM
Hi Ziv, it's a pleasure to see your scene, really an amazing, you be proud. CONGRATULATIONS and good luck. :applause: :applause:

CryingHorn
12-05-2005, 02:37 PM
Wow man your work is superb, outstanding details and composition, SPECTACULAR!

Blip
12-06-2005, 12:04 AM
If you ever decided to sell prints of this, I would seriously love to have this as a huge poster. Great job!

shakes
12-06-2005, 01:25 AM
simply amazingly spectacular..you deserve to win! congrats, crazy boy!

ThierryS
12-06-2005, 08:08 AM
Great final picture Ziv, incredible details and beautiful mood, congratulation :thumbsup:
Good luck for the judging :applause:

hhssuu
12-06-2005, 08:09 AM
WOW that's very very spectacular, great work. Congratulations on your final, and good luck!:thumbsup:

melkao
12-06-2005, 03:25 PM
hey you are the master, and i am your servant!:thumbsup:

zancan
12-06-2005, 03:55 PM
The more are read about the technical details and intermediate renders, the more I became amazed. Now this low-resolution picture looks really frustrating. Thanks for sharing your processing steps that were a thrilling well of knowledge! I really don't know how you 3D guys can manage the headache computers never miss to give you all the time :banghead: :applause:

dannyfalch
12-06-2005, 04:19 PM
Hi Ziv.

Congrats on the final image!
Truely spectacular!
excelent job!:bowdown:
Good Luck!
(not that i think you will need it, he he)

TedTerranova
12-06-2005, 05:09 PM
This came out really well. Your attention to detail is really off the charts. The rendering of the sky where it meets the building is very cool. Great effects and post.

theuni
12-06-2005, 07:05 PM
Greate image... you got my vote for sure!!! :thumbsup:

Staszek
12-06-2005, 09:49 PM
Thats great scene! one of
the best in this challange!!



This
is
!! !!
!! !!
!!! !!!
!!! --SPECTACULAR-- !!!

Squibbit
12-06-2005, 10:00 PM
whut? , where da meteors? great effort nonetheless


.

arturro
12-06-2005, 10:56 PM
those closeups just killed me... truly inspiring work:) my congratulations

angel
12-07-2005, 01:41 AM
awesome details there zman! looks beautiful. Love the sky.:thumbsup:

-

zman
12-07-2005, 12:38 PM
Thanx everyone !
it was worth it.
I can finnaly get back to my life now :)

Versiden
12-07-2005, 01:18 PM
im just speechless... spectacular scene!!

very interesting techniques covered, thx for sharing!

goodluck with the judging

duddlebug
12-08-2005, 07:25 AM
I've not really browsed the 3D forum... but this is an absolutely oustanding piece of work!!

OMG... the detail!! It's just bonkers! And the rendering is just bang on.

Congratulations on the effort and getting it submitted and the best of luck in the judging...

scootermaya
12-08-2005, 07:38 AM
Gasp ! I missed this one ! Soooooooooooooo soooooooooooooooooooorrrryyyy !
I 'm speachless when I see the achivement on your picture ! Great details, great mood, ... great everything !

"magnifique" I love it. Good luck for the judging !

MrPositive
12-22-2005, 06:56 PM
I just love how you walked us through everything. The tower itself deserves an award.

vampeta
12-25-2005, 09:51 AM
Mary Christmas Ziv
and some nice Holidays with a lot of love and fun and presents
:beer:

Bmoner
01-07-2006, 09:10 PM
I'm an amateur when it comes to intricate modeling and just wanted to know how exactly you constructed the Tower of Babel. It always amazes me on how people model buildings and towers. Are there any beginning tips or help that you could possible give me on this?

Thank you for your time.

Brandon.

zman
01-08-2006, 03:24 PM
. Are there any beginning tips or help that you could possible give me on this?

Brandon.

yeah.
look at the second image I posted on this thread ;)

Alberto_Ro
01-08-2006, 10:27 PM
Great job man! :thumbsup:

Look, Im working on a huge scale project too. Its a medieval castle. Im still modeling the tower, I made it brick by brick, because, as its the most viewable thing of this project, it must be very detailed. I also plan to make a brick wall between the towers.
What I want to do is also make the environment around this castle. Of course, the enviroment and the other buildings except the towers and walls, will not be so detailed. I wonder what do you think of this. I also made some low poly floors and stairs for the interior.
What was "shitty" was making the windows, that I made using boolean, that let some empty space, and when I capped then using cap holes, it made it in a bad, strange way. So I had do create poligons manually. It was hell of a job, I spent around 4 on it.
So here it is:

http://img278.imageshack.us/img278/6057/castelo17mx.jpg

http://img278.imageshack.us/img278/5605/castelo30ow.jpg

It already has windows, stairs, interior floors and stuff. But I didnt render it because I still have many things to repair on it. What tips can you give me, Ziv? And what new details should I add? I will shurerly add some flags... Im still in the modeling phase. :bowdown:

Bmoner
01-09-2006, 02:47 AM
Great job man! :thumbsup:

Look, Im working on a huge scale project too. Its a medieval castle. Im still modeling the tower, I made it brick by brick, because, as its the most viewable thing of this project, it must be very detailed. I also plan to make a brick wall between the towers.
What I want to do is also make the environment around this castle. Of course, the enviroment and the other buildings except the towers and walls, will not be so detailed. I wonder what do you think of this. I also made some low poly floors and stairs for the interior.
What was "shitty" was making the windows, that I made using boolean, that let some empty space, and when I capped then using cap holes, it made it in a bad, strange way. So I had do create poligons manually. It was hell of a job, I spent around 4 on it.
So here it is:

http://img278.imageshack.us/img278/6057/castelo17mx.jpg

http://img278.imageshack.us/img278/5605/castelo30ow.jpg

It already has windows, stairs, interior floors and stuff. But I didnt render it because I still have many things to repair on it. What tips can you give me, Ziv? And what new details should I add? I will shurerly add some flags... Im still in the modeling phase. :bowdown:

Ok first off I want to say "Great job on the castle so far". My second thing is "OMG you modeled that brick by brick!? How'd you get it to be so perfectly alligned? Did you texture map each individual brick, or use procedurals? I hope you used procedurals! lol. Sorry, but I'm an amateur with modeling and I have to speak when people make amazingly realistic objects. Very good job.

Brandon.

Alberto_Ro
01-09-2006, 10:47 AM
Ok first off I want to say "Great job on the castle so far". My second thing is "OMG you modeled that brick by brick!? How'd you get it to be so perfectly alligned? Did you texture map each individual brick, or use procedurals? I hope you used procedurals! lol. Sorry, but I'm an amateur with modeling and I have to speak when people make amazingly realistic objects. Very good job.

Brandon.

Hehe, thanks for the comment. Yes, I modeled it brick by brick, and then I alligned them using spacing tool, but that tool alligned them in a weird way around the circle shape I created, so I have to put them in place 1 by 1. The hard part was that I had to calculate things, cause I had 4 types of bricks, so it had to be space for an "n" number of each, and they would have to have a small space between them. It was hard.
Err, that texture is just temporary, Ill make a cool one in Corel Painter.
I mapped them as an object, they are unified in one mesh. I used uvwmapping to texture them. :)

I spent the last 2 days making the windows, that I made using boolean, but boolean battered my mesh, so I had 6 windows to repair, and cap holes didnt do the job, cause it capped then in a wrong way. I had to repair it poly by poly. Sometimes I got the "illegal face" message. :D

I think Ill create a [WIP] thread for my castle! :scream:

I only have 1 year of experience in 3d, and Im 14, so dont expect me to be at the level of these experts here in cgtalk. :twisted:

MattGyver
01-13-2006, 05:12 AM
Congratulations! You definately deserved to win. :applause:

shakes
01-13-2006, 05:21 AM
huge congrats too zman!! really well deserved, a gigantic task you took on..you made it spectacularly spectacular!! hopefully your computer problems will be all over now, with your prize!

alona
01-13-2006, 05:41 AM
Congratulations on the first prize, Ziv! Incredible work. Oh, and welcome to the XSI family - it's time to move up to the real thing :)

Best of luck,

AA

MrPositive
01-13-2006, 06:33 AM
Holy crap you won!! Welcome to legendary status, 300,000 people will know you won this contest, your life will never be the same again. Congrats man and well deserved!

vampeta
01-13-2006, 06:42 AM
Congratulation ZIV
Well deserved! have a lot of fun with your new boxx ;)

:beer: Alex

hhssuu
01-13-2006, 06:54 AM
Hey man CONGRATULATION!! :beer: really alsome image and a well desirved winner!! Love to see you in future challenges. Man, You're gonne have fun with the boxx. :D

Versiden
01-13-2006, 06:59 AM
hate to sound repetitive, but CONGRATUTIONS ;p

stunning image!

Alberto_Ro
01-13-2006, 06:59 AM
Congratulations ZIV!

Lemog
01-13-2006, 08:10 AM
Very good result for you man... congratulations, you must be very happy I think... and of course very proud :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

...and continue to give us some beautiful pictures :wavey:

Rebeccak
01-13-2006, 08:18 AM
Congrats! A really beautiful image!

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Staszek
01-13-2006, 09:01 AM
Congratulations!! Your illustration is greate!!

Bikod
01-13-2006, 09:14 AM
very stunning Image and great sense to detail. good luck!!

Gunilla
01-13-2006, 11:17 AM
Congrats for an inspiring entry!

alancamara
01-13-2006, 11:32 AM
Hey Ziv, congratulations!