PDA

View Full Version : Another win for Cinema


AdamT
09-09-2005, 03:55 AM
Nice press: http://www.computerarts.co.uk/reviews/software/graphics/3d_animation_software

ThePriest
09-09-2005, 04:30 AM
If only the entire CG industry would recognize this.
Maybe we should forward that article to every major studio.

cookepuss
09-09-2005, 05:20 AM
Kinda old news.
http://www.maxon.net/pages/dyn_files/dyn_htx/htx/1218/01218_01218.html
ftp://ftp2.maxon.net/pub/misc/computerarts0105.pdf

MPS
09-09-2005, 10:18 AM
I just don't get why cinema 4d doesn't get the respect it deserves in some fields. I can understand that companies like to stick with certain licensed software rather than change, but what gets me is the way everytime I see jobs advertised for 3d artists, environmental modellers for games/film etc they give a list of required software knowledge but cinema 4d never gets mentioned, despite the fact that it is a more than capable software app and as we all know a good artist/animator can make use of any app and produce good results.
:banghead:

STRAT
09-09-2005, 11:18 AM
hmm, a few 'point of view' comments about c4d's rendering in that review. and for Max's too for that matter. i personally dissagree on both.

Chrissyboy
09-09-2005, 11:29 AM
With Cinema 4D R9, you can have multiple scenes open at once – a feature currently unavailable in any of the other apps on test.

I'm astonished... you never know how good you've got it until you see what the competition offers...

Nice press: http://www.computerarts.co.uk/reviews/software/graphics/3d_animation_software

MPS
09-09-2005, 11:46 AM
Being able to have more than one scene open in c4d is such a great feature. I read that article (the one Adam has posted) around march/april this year and it was a big eye opener for me. When I realised most other apps couldn't have more than one scene open I too was astonished. It's kind of like Mac only just introducing a 2nd mouse button...

Theropoda
09-09-2005, 01:09 PM
I just don't get why cinema 4d doesn't get the respect it deserves in some fields.

because it's a "bad application", as my computer animation teacher said. with this statement he has lost every crediatbility for me. he doesn't think much of bodypaint either.

i don't know why cinema has that reputation, but i'm sure it's getting better. i think at the moment some big studios use it for matte painting in conntection with bodypaint, and as bodypaint is now one of the best 3d painting solutions on the market, i think lots of studios will adapt it (or already have) - and that's good for the reputation of maxon and cinema.

i think our favorite 3d software is establishing quite well at the moment :)

greetings
günter

Srek
09-09-2005, 01:24 PM
because it's a "bad application", as my computer animation teacher said. with this statement he has lost every crediatbility for me. he doesn't think much of bodypaint either.

Don't be to harsh with him, most likely he meant "bad ass software" ;)

Cheers
Björn

AdamT
09-09-2005, 02:35 PM
Kinda old news.
http://www.maxon.net/pages/dyn_files/dyn_htx/htx/1218/01218_01218.html
ftp://ftp2.maxon.net/pub/misc/computerarts0105.pdf
Yep, someone posted the link elsewhere but I should have checked the date.

Oh well, can't hurt to pimp my favorite app. :)

MPS
09-09-2005, 02:57 PM
pimping cinema 4d? sounds like an 'MTV colaboration with 3d Fluff ' tutorial video with a guest appearance by Xhibit (the rapper.) :)

AdamT
09-09-2005, 03:10 PM
Special appearance by "My 2Cent". :)

Thalaxis
09-09-2005, 04:11 PM
I just don't get why cinema 4d doesn't get the respect it deserves in some fields. I can understand that companies like to stick with certain licensed software rather than change,

There's the answer to your own question. :)

I think the main reason that Cinema doesn't get all that much respect is that it's still a relative newcomer to the market.

But then again, Maxon's putting together the production bundle and adding Linux support at the request of some of the larger studios (or at least ImageWorks). It sounds to me like Maxon has a foot solidly in the door now.

lightblitter22
09-09-2005, 05:23 PM
Its not a newcomer to the market. C4D has been out there for years and available to evaluate. The reason why it hasn't made a big splash so far is that it always lagged behind the bigger apps in toolset until recently. You would have had trouble making something like Jurrassic Park or Titanic with C4D's tools at the time. Even today you'd probably fall flat trying to render moving images of that quality and complexity.

anobrin
09-09-2005, 05:40 PM
Being able to have more than one scene open in c4d is such a great feature. I read that article (the one Adam has posted) around march/april this year and it was a big eye opener for me. When I realised most other apps couldn't have more than one scene open I too was astonished. It's kind of like Mac only just introducing a 2nd mouse button...


I just swtched over to Eovia Carrara pro4 and it can open
mutliple scenes at once also
its a good feature in any 3Dapp
:D

Thalaxis
09-09-2005, 05:57 PM
Its not a newcomer to the market. C4D has been out there for years and available to evaluate. The reason why it hasn't made a big splash so far is that it always lagged behind the bigger apps in toolset until recently.

My point exactly... it's a relative newcomer to the professional market, and the professional market is generally relatively slow to adopt new applications.

amoeba
09-09-2005, 07:01 PM
Ah Computer Arts, I find it as interesting as 3D world!!!

Archigraphica
09-09-2005, 07:02 PM
I know it's selfish but I take great delight in the fact that all my local competitors all use the exact same thing... Max and/or Vis. You can set examples of their work side by side and it all looks the same. Mine looks different and I like it that way.

That said it would be nice to think that if I got sick of self employment I could get a job with some firm using the software I like. But then again there's always sanitation-engineering!

Johnathn Clayton
ArchigraphicA

LucentDreams
09-09-2005, 07:39 PM
because it's a "bad application", as my computer animation teacher said. with this statement he has lost every crediatbility for me. he doesn't think much of bodypaint either.

i don't know why cinema has that reputation, but i'm sure it's getting better. i think at the moment some big studios use it for matte painting in conntection with bodypaint, and as bodypaint is now one of the best 3d painting solutions on the market, i think lots of studios will adapt it (or already have) - and that's good for the reputation of maxon and cinema.

i think our favorite 3d software is establishing quite well at the moment :)

greetings
günter

Its the best painting solution, particularly since its main comptetitor dropped its paint app so basiclaly modo is the only serious contender at the moment, and well we'll see how modo does, but BP 2.5 is definitley superior and more flexible being not only usable for texturing a single mode, but also helping in large complex camera projected matte paintings etc.

As for your teacher, I'd ask him what apps he knows fluently (not familiar with but knows fluently) If he doesn't have at least one other app that he cna do production in, then I'd let his opinions of other software slide right out the other ear cause he has a severly biased opinion. If you ever have me as a teacher, I'll tell you where cinema greatly lacks in comparison to others if you want to know, I'm not their to praise it and make you think its the best app in the entire world, I"ll make sure you understand where you are seing definite advantages, but I"ll point you towars what apps will help for your specific interests and such. I like teaching cinema because its jsut the easiet to learn, there fore great to teach with, but I like to think I'm teaching 3D, not cinema 4D.

Martin Kay
09-09-2005, 07:59 PM
C4D may have come on in leaps and bounds generally over the last few years, but I still think the procedurals are a bit naff, not as good as those in EI, (not a program I shall ever use again admittedly) I feel, that in my opinion, the Maxon programmers are more software orientated than artistic orientated. I'd like to see a really good third party shader set produced- something akin to that being produced for EI by third party programmers. Before I get flamed, I've used and continue to use C4D since Vs 5.



http://uk.geocities.com/martinkostyrka@btinternet.com/

amoeba
09-09-2005, 08:04 PM
"also helping in large complex camera projected matte paintings"

Care to expand on this, we use, well the guy who works on matte paintings uses MAX and PS. He's in a different department to us animation and modelling guys so i don't talk to him that much, it's an area i'm interested in though. So apart from texturing how can BP be used in matte painting?

dfaris
09-09-2005, 08:33 PM
C4D may have come on in leaps and bounds generally over the last few years, but I still think the procedurals are a bit naff, not as good as those in EI, (not a program I shall ever use again admittedly) I feel, that in my opinion, the Maxon programmers are more software orientated than artistic orientated. I'd like to see a really good third party shader set produced- something akin to that being produced for EI by third party programmers. Before I get flamed, I've used and continue to use C4D since Vs 5.



http://uk.geocities.com/martinkostyrka@btinternet.com/

Did you ever use Darktree? Thats a pretty damn good app. I don't know EI so I cant really say anything about how it compairs.

talos72
09-09-2005, 08:50 PM
Final Render Stage 2 will have its own procedural node based shader system which can only be good for expanding the shader capabilities within C4D.

soccerrprp
09-09-2005, 09:00 PM
Kai,

I wholly agree with you! I started using C4D only three months ago and feel DARN confident that I can model anything I put my mind to. In fact, I have learned so much by the help of the C4D community and just practicing, that I am teaching an introductory course in 3D Modeling & Animation. I tell my kids that there are other apps and I try to be honest. But, I am convinced that high school kids are best served by using an app like C4D if they want to learn 3D modeling/animation w/o the larger learning curves apparent in other apps. I've spent some time trying out demos of 3dsmax and lightwave (maya was never a serious option to even try) and found c4d to be much more forgiving/user friendly. Just my op.

Richard

Martin Kay
09-09-2005, 11:04 PM
dfaris,
I have used Darktree and it's 'ok'. The free 'half' made procedurals are patchy. I haven't used the 'base' generator program so can't comment on that. EI has great procedurals, but some require some effort to master, especially TripleD. Like a lot of these things it depends on who's using them...

Stain777
09-10-2005, 03:20 PM
I think there's a bit of "preaching to the choir" here. The article has some incorrect facts regarding other apps which dilutes their conclusion. While I use C4D every day, and think it's pretty swell, I can't honestly agree with their analysis.

I used Lightwave & 3d Max, among other 3d apps, for years before arriving at C4D. There are some very large holes that could use some filling up before it could be claimed as a clear winner.

For my part I find the modelling tools to be a little thinner than some of the others. Even creaky old LW has tools that go far beyond what C4D can offer up in this area though it's making headway with version 9.

All of that said, I've come to love C4D. I'm in the process of learning Maya as we speak, but don't think I'll be putting C4D away any time soon. My point is that it doesn't serve the community well to turn a blind eye to your own weaknesses and wonder why the world doesn't agree. There's a reason why the guys on top are there, better to figure out what it is and work to strengthen yourself in that area.

I give props to the guys at Maxon for their hard work, responsiveness, and the things that they've gotten VERY right. Do I think it's a clear winner? Probably not.

AdamT
09-10-2005, 03:26 PM
These kinds of comparisons are always very subjective, and the results depend completely on the criteria used. In this case the reviewer focused on ease of use and learning curve, in which case I agree that Cinema is the clear winner. Had he focused on something else, like CA or extensibility, it would have been a different story.

Stain777
09-10-2005, 03:39 PM
These kinds of comparisons are always very subjective, and the results depend completely on the criteria used. In this case the reviewer focused on ease of use and learning curve, in which case I agree that Cinema is the clear winner. Had he focused on something else, like CA or extensibility, it would have been a different story.

A fair point, and in retrospect I agree that ease-of-use was the focus of the article. But the responses from the rest of the forum were, "why doesn't the world love Cinema like we do?" I was pointing out that while Cinema is very intuitive, that doesn't make it necessarily more desireable if it doesn't have the tools you need, or at the level you need them.

flingster
09-10-2005, 10:10 PM
I'm astonished... you never know how good you've got it until you see what the competition offers...

man this is so true...the grass is always greener...
we do little to help to explode the myth c4d is not far more capable than a lot of other apps...and in some areas the so called biggie apps are just copying c4d features and adding them to their own toolsets...seeing that more often..of course this works both ways...its a sure sign the difference between all the apps is diminishing.

bolek
09-10-2005, 10:21 PM
computerarts is also aimed for the MAC/motion graphics crowd so of course cinema 4d will come out on top. See how a magazine like 3D world compares cinema 4d to other apps.

Fre
09-10-2005, 10:29 PM
computerarts is also aimed for the MAC/motion graphics crowd so of course cinema 4d will come out on top. See how a magazine like 3D world compares cinema 4d to other apps.
I have a subscription all three mags (computer arts, computer arts projects & 3d world).
Every month I see some content being shared in the three magazines. They're all owned by the same company (I believe), so I'd find it strange that they'd give different opinions about the same subject.

flingster
09-10-2005, 11:05 PM
i read a review of large flat monitors/tfts in 3d world and the initial review talks about screen space but very little concentration on colour type comparisions that you'd see in something like computer arts....wanted to see more tech spec and more emphasis on this side of things...but had c4d on all desktops views on screenshots which was cool...so i'd agree emphasis is different....also brings up some interesting reading on maya and xsi new versions and lightwave development stepped up, and some of their new features eg improved xsi dynamics engine which is pretty damn cool.. but also you see some stuff mentioned that are c4d natives that the other apps have adopted...made me feel all smiley at my maxon toolset but still leaves me wanting more as always...lol.

Blur1
09-11-2005, 08:23 AM
I haven't seen this article mentioned on these forums, definitely putting C4D in a good light:

http://www.rendernode.com/articles.php?articleId=236

Basically describing how C4D was used for previz of Flight of the Phoenix.

Interestingly David Dozoretz talks about how it is easy to "export everything to Maya". I'm not exactly sure how he may be doing this though, unless it's a combo of fbx/obj etc.

Michael

imashination
09-11-2005, 11:31 AM
I haven't seen this article mentioned on these forums, definitely putting C4D in a good light:

http://www.rendernode.com/articles.php?articleId=236

Basically describing how C4D was used for previz of Flight of the Phoenix.

Interestingly David Dozoretz talks about how it is easy to "export everything to Maya". I'm not exactly sure how he may be doing this though, unless it's a combo of fbx/obj etc.

Michael

We used fbx to export everything to maya for the hitchhikers previz very successfully. There were a couple of glitches with the camera rotation orders but they were fixed by applying the Y and Z rotations to 2 parent nulls instead.

Blur1
09-12-2005, 07:05 AM
We used fbx to export everything to maya for the hitchhikers previz very successfully. There were a couple of glitches with the camera rotation orders but they were fixed by applying the Y and Z rotations to 2 parent nulls instead.

Right. That's good to know...

CGTalk Moderation
09-12-2005, 07:05 AM
This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.