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View Full Version : Exotique Entry -- Rogue WIP Need help With Point Layout


Junerahe
09-06-2005, 02:30 AM
Well Im in a wrongful hurry to deliver something in time for the Exotique contest at ballistic publishing and im halfway through the modelling process which also serves as an excercise in point layout.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/Junerahe/hair.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/Junerahe/Face_Wire.jpg

trapezoidsoyzos arent there hehe you'll bare with me

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/Junerahe/Front_Shaded.jpg

was goin for tak and power of juju proportions.. been rethinking that over and over
havin a hard time with hands wondering if someone would want to help

Junerahe
09-06-2005, 02:34 AM
here are wireframe close ups of the hands

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/Junerahe/Hand_wire_02.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/Junerahe/Hand_wire_01.jpg

a note on the hair.. the hair setup was a test and i fear i may not have time to change it or start from scratch.. I first wanted to model the olga gurlukovich character from the upcoming MGS4 for ps3 but then i was looking at old joe madureira comics and had the sudden urge to do rogue instead..

Junerahe
09-06-2005, 02:40 AM
just cause im really proud of it.. still room for improvement tho

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/Junerahe/Rear_Wire.jpg

JaMo
09-06-2005, 03:08 AM
is this the comic book rogue? if so you beat me to her. i was thinking of modeling her in the very very near future.

Junerahe
09-06-2005, 03:24 AM
well this shouldnt stop you and i hope it wont bub..

Junerahe
09-06-2005, 06:45 AM
upper body updates


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/Junerahe/Upperbody_Wire.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/Junerahe/RearUpperbody_Wire.jpg

That back needs detailing especially cause its rogue and she's more muscular than most women

Lomax
09-06-2005, 02:31 PM
Looks good so far!
The only thing that really stands out to me is her cheeks. They seem to 'sink' between the cheek-bone and the mouth...

Junerahe
09-06-2005, 05:37 PM
you mean like this?

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/Junerahe/lowmax_fix.jpg

i really appreciate ur help bub...

Lomax
09-06-2005, 06:06 PM
Can you post a side view of the head? I might be easier to show what I mean...

Junerahe
09-07-2005, 12:38 AM
Ill upload a screenshot tonight.. cant do it now cause i work the evening shift at the studio

Junerahe
09-07-2005, 07:06 AM
face profiles and chest update.. i shrunk the breast because i feel they were too big for someone as athletic as rogue...

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/Junerahe/face_Profile.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/Junerahe/chest_update.jpg

plus ive been trying to come up with a cool xman costume for rogue without resorting the the classic green and yellow..

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/Junerahe/costume_projections.jpg

Junerahe
09-07-2005, 03:34 PM
dont know bout this


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/Junerahe/costume_projections02.jpg

Lomax
09-08-2005, 04:57 AM
Here's what I would do - http://www.nyeng.com/temp/suggestions.jpg
Apart from making the dip between the cheek and the lip more subtle, I would pull the the lips and chin foreword a little. This might help fill it out a little.

For the body, maybe some adjustments to the proportions -

http://www.nyeng.com/temp/suggestions2.jpg
At least to me, the torso seems a tad long, and the breasts are kinda low. Shortening the torso would also make the legs a little longer (but still stylishly short).

Hope this helps!

Junerahe
09-09-2005, 11:47 PM
havent gotten to update yet cause of work.. been workin mostly on her hair and consolidating extra edges from the hands in the forearm ill update tonight. lomax ive been workin on making the cheek to mouth dip more subtle like u suggested.. the body proportions on the other hand are pretty much set in stone now becasue those are wanted for my end of term demo and the supervisor kinda hustled me into doing it more like what you suggested and i regretted it hehe

Junerahe
09-10-2005, 08:18 AM
new hair dew i modeled based on this girl i saw on the way to work.. sketched it really quickly in my palm pilot so i didnt get it to see it from all the angles i made the cheek sink as subtle as was possible without losing too much of the original design and lifted the breast thanx lomax


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/Junerahe/hair_03.jpg


im running out of ideas as to what to do with the costume.. i like the belt.. i like the boots.. but the bared shoulders concept that i previously toyed with couldnt stand since its rogue and she's pretty iffy about her skin.. any thoughts

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/Junerahe/costume_projections03.jpg

Junerahe
09-10-2005, 08:23 AM
hair smoothed



http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/Junerahe/hair_04.jpg

Junerahe
09-11-2005, 09:18 PM
I've settled with teh color scheme previously established for the costume and am now working on bump mapping to give the costume a synthetic material feel.. your thoughts..


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/Junerahe/costume_front.jpg http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/Junerahe/costume_back.jpg


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/Junerahe/bump_test_01.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/Junerahe/bump_test_02.jpg

these are only procedurals mind you as i might resort to hand painting them..

cshanks
09-13-2005, 02:03 AM
Looks like you have some anatomy issues.

Junerahe
09-13-2005, 03:19 AM
I played around with the proportions for a very long time before i reached a cartoonish build that would fit the physical demands of a character like rogue.. i'd rather you explained yourself than just make wild comments like that..

Junerahe
09-18-2005, 12:49 AM
texture update.. been playin around with the diffusion shader addon from the evermotion (http://www.evermotion.org/tutorials/rendering/xsi_sss/)website been creating bumpmaps for most of her costume and changed the color scheme a bit.. the texture for her face is a work in progress im sill hesitating between painted hair or geometry hair or hair sim.. tho i doubt ill choose the latter

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/Junerahe/Costume_Shading.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/Junerahe/bump_close_up002.jpg

dont mind teh two x-man logos on her chest..

Junerahe
09-19-2005, 02:11 AM
been working a lot more on the diffuse map for the face and how it works in the diffusion shader.. getting close to something decent

crits and comments needed

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/Junerahe/SSSRenderTest005.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/Junerahe/SSSRenderTest006.jpg


the light setup is temporary hopefully by my final renders ill have a better understanding of character lighting.. hopefully

Junerahe
09-19-2005, 02:26 AM
bigger close up.. the lighting is really bad but it helps point out places where the texture has to be toned down..

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/Junerahe/SSSRenderTest007.jpg

helicopterr
09-19-2005, 02:53 AM
As somebody else said before, you have geometry issues. I would delay the shading until you have them worked out since it is easier to see those issues with shading.

1. The chest, looking at some of your frontal shots, is too narrow compared to her hips. Rogue is in her twenties I believe so even a cartoony version should reflect that. The breast themselves needs to come out a little bit more and move a little bit to each side unless she is wearing a really tight bra.

2. The area right above her behind needs to come out a little bit more since the spine runs right through it.

Junerahe
09-19-2005, 04:23 AM
thanks for the heads up about her chest and teh spine protrusion heli.. im working on that right now.. i still do however stand by my opinion that a woman that would partake in intense physical activity like fighting sentinels wouldnt want her breasts bouncing uncomfortably about..

updates coming soon

RYE-BREAD
09-19-2005, 05:15 AM
At this point in your creative stages I doubt you'd actually consider changing any of the geometry, so I'll post my two cents about the shaders/rendering.

First off, the colour scheme is great. However, you may want to look into a more realistic renderer, perhaps something with Global Illumination. I'm not familiar with the program you're using so I can't say what settings to use, plugins to download, or software to purchase. There are great renderers out there like Mental Ray, Vray, Brazil, and Maxwell that will really bring your characters to life by making them look like photographs.

The texturing on the face needs some work, too. It looks like she's blushing a bit too much, or she has some sort of rash. Maybe smooth it out a bit more and use more peachy tones with red light absorbance. Also, if your renderer supports SSS shaders, go for it! They add tons of realism to skin.

silentsamurai
09-19-2005, 07:54 AM
I think you need to work on some of your geometry. Especially in the legs. The legs look really squatty and thunder thigh-ish. What you need to do with the legs is just stretch them out and make them longer, I don't think you need to widen them at all, just stretch them downward more, and then they will look slender and like they actually belong to her.

Junerahe
09-19-2005, 08:38 AM
I must apologize if it hadnt been stated before but one of my design goals with this character was to experiment with proportions approaching that of Ottsel Tess from Naughty Dog's Jak3 game for ps2.. if you're not familiar with the game this is Daxter, Jak's side kick and he pretty much shares the same proportions as the Ottsel version of the Tess character in the game

http://www.naughtydog.com/jak1/concept/bigUNZ/characters/daxter/DaxterProgression01.jpg

I basically wanted to see how such a proportioned character would animate, small legs and all..

silentsamurai
09-20-2005, 05:24 AM
I see what you are saying. However, look at the character type and it's propportions as opposed to yours. These four legged characters (which are standing upright) look correct in terms of proportion because essentially they are. Look at the humanoid characters. (no I am not familiar with the game, I only know the name.) But the fox-like character doesn't work as a guide because it is correct proportionally with a real world fox-like animal. It's not human.

Look at a humanoid character, notice that the legs are proportional. Or if I'm wrong, post a humanoid character.

Junerahe
09-20-2005, 05:41 AM
You are not wrong and in fact, you are absolutely right. But the design attempt is not model a character with perfect human proportions but rather skewed proportions. Only exemple I could think of is this (http://www.jeffmatsuda.com/animation/jbabies.html).

scootch
09-20-2005, 05:51 AM
I've done work that were similar to windy tales (http://www.production-ig.com/images/Windy_Tales/disp_miki01.jpg) and the first comments I get were that the proportions were all wrong... pah.
I don't see the problem. I don't see why the artist shouldn't be able to take liberty on proportions on their cartoon character. Afterall he isn't going for realism.
aside from the modeling done in the hair I think it's looking great.

Junerahe
09-20-2005, 07:29 AM
I did some reshaping of her shoulders trying not to step into she-hulk territory and also the hips giving them a more child bearing allure.

yes the head is big.. thats what im going for.. hehe and it used to be bigger

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/Junerahe/Body_Update001.jpg

Experimenting with different materials for her uniform and worked on the bumpmapping some more to get rid of some of the stretching.. still got a ways to

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/Junerahe/Body_Update_close.jpg

I gotta thank scootch for understanding my point of view and rye bread for his input on the shading and textures.. I'Ve been fiddling some more with the diffusion shader and retouching the diffuse map itself to tone down the blushing the first is an old test render with an old version of the diffuse map and the second is another test render without the diffusion shader

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/Junerahe/SSSRenderTestnewdiff.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/Junerahe/SSSRenderTest_no_diffusion.jpg

I wonder if i should bother with the diffusion shader

silentsamurai
09-21-2005, 03:38 AM
You are not wrong and in fact, you are absolutely right. But the design attempt is not model a character with perfect human proportions but rather skewed proportions. Only exemple I could think of is this (http://www.jeffmatsuda.com/animation/jbabies.html).

That's a good example, but if you look closely, even though the proportions may LOOK skewed, they really aren't all that skewed, what makes them look skewed, is because the head size is so large. It's really only the head that is out of proportion on most of those characters. Except for the big guy, whose arms are larger, but still, the main thing is understanding anatomy. And that's the difference there. I still think your geometry needs some tweaking here and there. But honestly, it is good modeling. I'm not trying to knock your modeling at all.

And there's nothing wrong with the artist taking liberty and skewing proportions. However, that certainly depends on the type of character that you want to use. You can't just skew the proportions of a character and say hey this is good! There needs to be a basic grasp of anatomy to properly skew proportions and still have the character look natural.

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