auto rig's controls

[zukezuko]

ok
for the arms you have the options of IK or FK not both at the same time
you can switch between them, but i am sure you can find out more if you read the
holy book :)

in case of ik the upvectors need to be moved by you, but fk not.
now, where the upv go when you bend the body is a question of where they are parented to. but for a new starter i whould suggest learning fk first, because ik needs knowledge
of rigging.

[Mechis]

Thanks zukezuko! I also found a readme in the rig file, which is helping me out.
Mechis

[Mechis]

Here's something that I think is odd about the pre-made rig.

When I click to rotate (fk) the upper arm bone, the rotation axes are all skewed (not in line with the arm at all)-- see first picture. I can change the rotation mode to local and that fixes the problem-- see second picture. However, if I click something else and then re-select the upper arm, the rotation axes become skewed again.

I feel like there must be some way to keep the rotation axes in line with the arm all the time, but for the life of me, I can't figure out what it is...

Please help if you can. Thanks,
Mechis

http://www.marcuslee.net/temp/shoulder01.jpg
http://www.marcuslee.net/temp/shoulder02.jpg

[Gwot]

Hey Mechis,

Try selecting the object(s) and in the Model or Animate tool panel go to /Property/Transform Setup.

From here you can set the default transform tool that the selected object will use every time you pick it from here on in. You can also set the Reference mode - in this case, use Rotate - Local, and disable any Axes you don't need by unchecking them. When you exit the Transform Setup tool your object(s) will use whatever settings you created in there from now on. I do a transform setup pass on all my rigs now. Saves a lot of tool switching while animating.

[Mechis]

Hi Gwot! Thanks so much for posting that. I'm going to go check it out, right now!

Mechis

[tuna]

Transform setup is seriously useful. Also remember you can right click (if you're in the right mode) and choose "local" or "global" instead of "add" (if you dont like seeing the gimbal - but some people do).

Also as a note, don't animate rigs with that constraint compensate on. It'll most likely break something on the rig.

[Mechis]

Thanks Tuna.

Is it common to animate in add/par mode with this rig?

It sounds like (from reading the boards and the online help manual) that people like to rotate in add mode and translate in par mode. I'm guessing that this is so that they can see when they are going to create gimble lock. However, I don't see how you could animate with the axes skewed (in add mode) like the are in the first picture I posted above. It seems much more intuitive to animate with the axes lined up (local mode), as in the second picture. Thoughts...?

Mechis

ps. Transform setup rocks :)

[tuna]

It's just personal preference. I, personally animate rotations in local and switch to add mode if I suspect some gimbal is going to crop up, then I know wether to change rotation orders. Some people just like to leave it on add all the time. It's only really a display mode just 2 mouse clicks away so feel free to mix and match :)

[Gwot]

Haha! Yeah I noticed that constraint compensation was on too. Turn that off while animating! =D

I prefer local by default for most things too. For IK controls I'll often set the transform setup to translate: screen. And for special needs, like rotating all the joints of a finger at once or the spine, I'll switch to add temporarily.

[Mechis]

Thanks again guys. You really know how to make a newcomer to xsi feel welcome :thumbsup:

@Tuna- I thought it was just a display change, but wasn't sure-- thanks for that.

@Gwot- compensation constraint... hah, not really sure why that was on... :D heh. I'm not sure if you remember me, but I was making animations with your leg model in LW. Anywho, I really struggled with the animation controls in LW and decided to look for a new animation package. After seeing what xsi is like, I'm pretty sure that I'm going to get it... hello steep learning curve! Maybe once I get to know xsi better, I'll rig up and animate your legs again. :)

Thanks!
Mechis

[Gwot]

Yep, I remembered you alright. If you ever have any questions about LW or XSI - feel free to PM me, I'd be happy to help, as far as my own knowlege allows.

[SheepFactory]

" Is it common to animate in add/par mode with this rig?"

yes you must actually. Animating in local mode will give you values in all three axis and will make a MESS!

ie: you think you are just moving in X axis under local mode but if you look at the values you will see all XYZ values changing , when you are back in the anim editor you'll hate your life.

always animate in add mode.

[Gwot]

Interesting... thanks for the advice Sheep Factory. I've set my rigs up knowing that I would be keying all 3 channels at once when I rotate, and just accepted that as a fact of life when editing.

[Mechis]

@Sheepfactory
Would you mind elaborating a little bit on your point? Are you saying that in Local mode, if you rotate in the x-axis, the channels will show a curve for all three axes? And that in Add mode, this does not happen?

I did a test and rotated one forearm bone in the z-axis only, in local mode and the other forearm bone in add mode and the curves look the similar to me-- both showed a curve only in the z axis and not in the y or x axes... maybe I didn't understand what you were saying?

Here's screencaps
Local mode
http://www.marcuslee.net/temp/Local.jpg

Add mode
http://www.marcuslee.net/temp/Add.jpg

Additionally, Sheep, if you animate only in add/par modes, then what would you do about the rotation axes not being lined up (in the first set of pics I posted)? Do you just accept it, or is there something you can do?

Thanks!
Mechis

[tuna]

I've set my rigs up knowing that I would be keying all 3 channels at once when I rotate, and just accepted that as a fact of life when editing.

Yeah same here, it's hardly a "MESS!" When you pose a bone, you want it to go into the position no matter what channels are keyed. If you honestly key your rigs 1 channel at a time, not keying on a channel unless it's absolutely nessecary, then you're probably wasting too much time being pointlessly pedantic.

Imagine offsetting a bunch of joints in the dopesheet if each object has it's own keys spread out per channel, rather than being grouped together. I should imagine that's a bit more of a mess.

[SheepFactory]

Yeah same here, it's hardly a "MESS!" When you pose a bone, you want it to go into the position no matter what channels are keyed. If you honestly key your rigs 1 channel at a time, not keying on a channel unless it's absolutely nessecary, then you're probably wasting too much time being pointlessly pedantic.

Imagine offsetting a bunch of joints in the dopesheet if each object has it's own keys spread out per channel, rather than being grouped together. I should imagine that's a bit more of a mess.

umm you are missing the point completely.

First of all the software calculates your rotations in add mode when you animate , so what you do in local is meant for modeling operations and is misleading. You might think you are rotating in Z in local mode but it does not lie on the local Z axis of the bone XSI calculates the rotation therefore to put the bone there it will rotate in all 3 axis.

do this test:

create a two bone 2d chain. set autokey on and open up the anim editor to observe.

rotate in X , it'll set one key , rotate in Y yes still fine , now rotate in Z , whoa what happened there? it set keys in all 3 axis with different values although you just rotated in Z. Now set the same keys using ADD mode and see the difference. Your keys will be cleaner.

When the time comes to finesse your animation and you want to just change that Z rotation a bit you'll be dealing with 3 keys instead of one if you dont do it.

so:

-Add mode is how the software calculates the rotations , using local mode does NOT solve the gimbal lock problem and gives you false feedback

-Using add mode will keep your curves cleaner

Its hardly pointless.

[Mechis]

Wow, that's pretty interesting. Thanks for making that clear, sheep.

@sheep or anyone else, so do you care that the rotation axes don't line up (when rotating in add mode-- see pics) with the upper arm in the pre-made rig? Do you just deal with it, or is there an option that I can change?

Thanks,
Mechis

[SheepFactory]

You can change its rotation order from the kinematics page (ctrl + k) , before you set it know what axis the bone is going to be rotating and if its a hinge or ball joint. You can set it up so you rotate X & Y through the controller and Z through another controller to avoid gimbal. I dont think the Autorig has that setup though.

[Mechis]

@sheep
Thanks-- I got it to work the way I wanted by changing the rotation order to zxy.

Thanks to everyone again for helping :)
Mechis

[tuna]

umm you are missing the point completely.

No, I do know what you're saying and it's interesting. But, like Gwot, I've always been animating this way and it's not as big of a deal that you're making it out to be. In the past if I've been finessing stuff, a lot of it can be edited directly in the f-curve editor anyway.

[SheepFactory]

"its not a big deal as you make it to be"

I think I have illustrated enough times why it is a big deal unless you are encouraging bad workflow.

It might not be a big deal for you doing your animations home , but for the guy who is animating for games where every keyframe counts , or for the movie animator that has to refine and change this anim multiple times yes it does matter , a lot.

[tuna]

I'm not encouraging bad workflow and I know how rotation orders work and why a local cordinated manipulator will rotate all 3 axis of the object in most cases.

This is a stupid arguement, all I'm disagreeing with is the severity of which you said the problem was. If you're going to be keying on all 3 axis anyway (like with most keys for joints like the upper arm) then using local mode isnt going to destroy the world and corrupt your animation.

There is a time and a place to use it no matter what working situation you are in, you'll encounter it. Like I said earlier it's 2 mouse clicks away.

[Leonardo Vega]

Sheep is right, the manual clearly says to animate in "add" mode. I've never come across gimbal lock problems, until now. Then again in all other apps, I've animated in local mode.

So setting controller is like creating a null that will affect the rotation of the bone (using link with or constraints)?

Thanks!
Leo

[zukezuko]

I always animate in local mode
works fine for me.
Sometimes though i get the gimbal locks,
when a gimbalL appears i really dont know what to do
or how to solve it, exept deleting the animation and redoing it.

http://www.geocities.com/zukezuko/temp/Lock.jpg

With add mode animating isnt as easy though.

[madheavy]

Hey Mechis,

Try selecting the object(s) and in the Model or Animate tool panel go to /Property/Transform Setup.

From here you can set the default transform tool that the selected object will use every time you pick it from here on in. You can also set the Reference mode - in this case, use Rotate - Local, and disable any Axes you don't need by unchecking them. When you exit the Transform Setup tool your object(s) will use whatever settings you created in there from now on. I do a transform setup pass on all my rigs now. Saves a lot of tool switching while animating.

Thanks for the tip

[madheavy]

You can change its rotation order from the kinematics page (ctrl + k) , before you set it know what axis the bone is going to be rotating and if its a hinge or ball joint. You can set it up so you rotate X & Y through the controller and Z through another controller to avoid gimbal. I dont think the Autorig has that setup though.


Thanks! You learn sumthin' new everyday!
I always encountered gimbal locking in FK rigs, now I change the solve order to ZXY, and its cool.
I saw that FND 5.11 has this option when building the auto rig, but 4.2 doesn't. Now I know! I will animate in add mode from now!
Interestingly, 5.11 lets you animate in view mode, it seems to be the default mode for the auto-rigs...is that a bad idea still?

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