CGTalk - Is Boxxtech over rated?

OC-NightHawk

09-02-2005, 11:03 PM

Over priced? That machine has 8GB of ECC ram. Thats not cheap. It's got a professional 3D graphics card. Not to mention that the price includes dual Xeons not the typical one processor and insane mark up for the second. I'd say that for what it is the price is marked up enough to feed their people but worth it especially when you factor in a good warenty. This machine isn't, IMO, a personal machine for games. It's a workstation used in production to make products to sell. Not a bad deal for corporate.

As for me I'm still running off a Dual 2.4@2.93GHz 533MHz Xeon systrem with a GB of RAM. It still works no need to upgrade. Build it yourself if you know what you're doing and are willing to be your tech support.

Raizler

09-02-2005, 11:13 PM

It really depends on your needs...
If your doing 3d as a hobby/minor touch-up work, then I say those specs
are way too overkill. You can easily DIY and build a system for $2000-$3000
and still comfortably perform your tasks.

Ozoka

09-02-2005, 11:26 PM

no this is not my hobby, im currently in college and i have a few shorts i have to do..and this what i want do for a living, and if i do build it i cant finds the parts is it a mother board or server.....i figure that this should last for a long time and i think i can make it back up with my work in a few years

but should i get? or would u get it? and will it help me out (render time etc)

Raizler

09-02-2005, 11:55 PM

Well your configuration should be application-specific. For example, if you mainly
concentrate on the video editing aspect, you should look for a set up that has
fast, large, harddrives i.e. hitachi 300GB 7,200 rpm and lots and lots of ram, i.e.
2GB DDR2 533mhz. If it's real-time 3d that you mostly deal with, then an Open-Gl
graphics card, preferrably from Nvidia such as the 7800 should fit the bill. If you don't
really work with large scenes, and mainly work with cpu intensive processes such as
motion blur, global illumination, SSS, etc. then you definately will need a dual-core
cpu, but that all really depends on your program. 3DS Max for example, is biased towards
Intel based processors. What I was originally trying to say was that since you are a
student, such high-end parts are really unnecessary, unless you work in a production
environment. But still, you may be surprised to find that most houses really don't
use such cutting edge specs. If you tell me the programs that you normally use, I
could tailor a system according to your needs (all parts being from Newegg.com, of course). Boxx-tech, which I hear is a great company and no offense to them, makes money from building such bloated machines.You can easily configure a high-tech machine right in your home at a fraction of the cost.

Raizler

09-03-2005, 12:49 AM

Here is what I would personally get:
(All parts/prices from newegg.com)
CASE:Lian Li V Series 2100B-$290.00
CPU:Intel Pentium D 840 EMT64 3.2 GHz x2-$539.00
MOBO:Asus P5ND2-SLI-$225.00
RAM:OCZ DDR2 667 5400 2GB-$417.33
VIDCARD(x2):eVGA 256-P2-N537-AX Geforce 7800gt 256ddr3 PCIx16-$798.00
HDD(x2):Hitachi Deskstar 500GB 7200RPM-$714.00
DVDRW(x2):SONY DVDRW 16x-$79.98
PSU:Aspire ATX 520W-$58.00
KBM:Logitech wireless cordless comfort duo-$71.00
WIN64:Windows XP Pro X64 ed.-$152.95

Total: $3,345.26

This configuration should last you for a solid next few years. Ram is expandable to 8GB if the need ever arises.

DoubleSupercool

09-03-2005, 01:17 AM

That is a pretty . . . insane system for someone in college (like myself). It could well be cheaper to buy several cheap machines sans graphic cards for rendering. As for 8GB RAM, don't you need XP 64 to access that? As in, XP Pro can only allocate 2GB per application?

In any event, when I plonked down my hard earned cash for my computer for my course a bit over a year ago, I got quotes from all the major vendors, plus a couple of well-known Australian vendors. If I recall correctly, HP and BOXX were easily twice the cost of everyone else for the same/less specs.

Having said that, if I was a freelancer/getting paid for production jobs, I would probably check them again as reliability/servicing/support would be worth the money.

MadMax

09-03-2005, 01:34 AM

In any event, when I plonked down my hard earned cash for my computer for my course a bit over a year ago, I got quotes from all the major vendors, plus a couple of well-known Australian vendors. If I recall correctly, HP and BOXX were easily twice the cost of everyone else for the same/less specs.

Specs do not mean the same as parts.

For example Dell uses the absolute chepaest parts available, and even multiple machines of the same model if taken apart will have different components from different manufacturers.

if you go on price watch and look up 2gb ram, you will find proces for 2gb of PC3200 anywhere from just over 200.00 to over 500.00 for "the same specs"

Is BoXX overrated? Sure they are. If people praising them for their use of top quality components, precision testing and their exemplary customer service is your idea of being overrated. Fact is BoXX is the ONLY integrated builder I would trust with my money.

FYI, you don't want those Pentium D's. If you want a real dual core processor and want top performance, go for the AMD X2's.

DoubleSupercool

09-03-2005, 01:50 PM

Like I said, if I was in a production environment and needed reliability/stability/support, I would seriously consider them. However, as a student (as is the OP), I fail to see the benefit in spending twice the money for essentially the same product, especially in light of how fast technology moves. Unlike the OP, I didn't say they were overrated, I said they were expensive.

kaiser_pro

09-03-2005, 02:22 PM

the fact that they intall and configure redhat for you is a distinct bonus.

lv-88

09-03-2005, 04:05 PM

I would also recommend building one yourself and belive me you will get more perfomance at lower price, and as a college/stundent you sure want what suits you the best

I just read the review on a dell workstation computer which had the intel dual-core 2.8GHz etc. and it costed about ca. 2100$ if I remember correctly, and the perfomance you got wasn't good at all if you ask me, especially the cinema4d etc. benchmarks, however, my system which includes the athlon x2 4400+ dual-core (and overclocked to 2.95GHz for 24/7 use, total of 5.9Ghz rendering power), 1GB high quality ram, Temp. GF 6600GT, and cost me less than 950-1000$ to build is alot better, oc'd or not, you just save alot money. Build you own computer I say. :thumbsup:

Srek

09-03-2005, 05:59 PM

I have seen the machines and i have seen the support they give and if you compare that to the price they take for their systems it is a fair deal.
My main point to decide on how good a PC manufacturer is, is the way how they handle events when you and your system are in trouble and you need help.
Simply take a search on boxx hear on the forum and you get an impression on how they react to trouble.

Cheers
Björn

catamount

09-03-2005, 07:10 PM

2GB RAM
7800GTX
2X SATA RAID 0
Asus 8n sli premium
nice lian li case
3800X2
etc

and be done.

point to note, that the sheer speed computers go out of date. you dont want to drop a whooping 8k on a system. start with what you need and then add extras when you need them.

nobody asked, but what are you running now?

remember its NEVER fast enough.

EDIT: looked again. somebody save him quick. its like one of those mafia killings where they put concrete on his feet and drop him off a bridge. hes sinking fast. - ATI FIRE GL.

ALSO: HE WILL NOT BE OVERCLOCKING

amateur at this stuff. give it a rest.

:eek:: $2000 on RAM.

your representation of AMD cpus is exaggerated mad max.

Ozoka

09-04-2005, 03:10 AM

im running on a pent(4) 2.4ghz 1gb ram 80gb hardrive my graphics card is weak so i dont need to say anything about that...like 2 months ago i only had 256mb of ram and man that sucked....but this cpu is a gift to me from the parents, but i dont wanna kill them unless it would really help.

Valkyrien

09-04-2005, 03:15 AM

You could build it cheaper no doubt, but you'd miss out on their reputedly stellar support ;) I opt for the non-support cheaper option, but it depends on your confidence level building computers;)

lots

09-04-2005, 04:42 AM

:eek:: $2000 on RAM.

your representation of AMD cpus is exaggerated mad max.

That was $200 actually. Talk about exaggerated :P

And MadMax may be blunt, but he is right. Intel is using an inefficient design, and they know it. Take a look at what intel has instore for the future: integrated north bridges, lower clock speed + higher IPC, suddonly they sound like AMD (even down to the integrated graphics chip on the CPU). Intel knows it needs to change its design, and soon.

I know I'm singing the AMD song now, but if intel shows me a superior product, I'll sing their tune.

MadMax

09-04-2005, 05:33 AM

your representation of AMD cpus is exaggerated mad max.

No, it's right on the mark. Unlike some people here, I base my comments on facts, even if bluntly at times.

Intels design sucks, they know and they admit it. The fact that every single one of their upcoming innovations is a direct copy of AMD validates everything I have said on the subject.

Ozoka

09-05-2005, 07:17 PM

you guys are getting past the point should i get it or not?

i think im going to down grade it a little....is anyone on the boxxtech rewards so i can get 5% off?

MadMax

09-05-2005, 07:28 PM

you guys are getting past the point should i get it or not?

i think im going to down grade it a little....is anyone on the boxxtech rewards so i can get 5% off?

Not really, the point was are they overrated? and the answer is no, they are spectacular. If I were buying a pre built system from a vendor, there is only one vendor I trust enough to buy from and that is BoXX.

So yes, go with BoXX. Absolutely and without a doubt.

jtothec

09-06-2005, 03:32 PM

Our entire shop runs on Boxx 'puters. In addition to being stellar machines, the support has been nothing short of fantastic. We regret not one penny we've spent on Boxx, the ROI has been tremendous.

:D

Joel Hooks

09-06-2005, 04:37 PM

The testing, warranty, and outstanding service is what the price mark-up with Boxx is related to. Building your own system usually takes many many hours of research for the individual components. It is possible to eventually discover the exact set of components that will work perfectly together, but the odds are you will end up with some specific component that doesn't play well with the rest of your system. Hopefully you have alternates for each component to successfully troubleshoot, otherwise you will be completely helpless diagnosing your issues. With a Boxx you get production tested components and a staff that will understand your specific CG/DCC needs when you call support. Call them up and tell them you are on the fence about purchasing, and ask for a 5-10% discount. I bet they would extend you this courtesy.

As an alternative, I had great luck with monarch computers (http://www.monarchcomputer.com). They will assemble your chosen rig for you for under $100. They will also test motherboards/cpu/ram to make sure they function before shipping. This saved my ass on my latest computer as they discovered on of my opterons was DOA.

There is only one reason not to get the Boxx and that is finacial. If you are prepared to troubleshoot your problems, research components, and spend 10s of hours designing and building a system yourself, then go that route. That is the way I always choose and it has worked out well for the most part. It is a good learning experience, but some people wouldn't want to deal with the hassle.

Ozoka

09-09-2005, 12:37 AM

are u sure about the 5-10% thing?

Brent Turbo

09-09-2005, 12:53 AM

At the last company I worked for, we had a ton of BOXX systems, and a ton of Dell systems. The BOXX systems were always the first to freeze up, and had some of the worst build quality I've ever seen. For instance, the audio from the headphone port on the front was unlistenable -- instead of wiring it straight to the mobos, they ran cords from the back of the sound cards, in through a hole in the card slot, through the case, and to the front. The hum was so bad that you couldn't use the headphone ports.

That's one of many issues related to basic build quality. I never dealt with them personally on support, but I heard it was not half as good as Dell. Our Dell machines, in comparison were worry free. Maybe not as 100% tweakable as a home built computer, but definitely solid and high quality. After using a couple dozen BOXX machines, I would not recommend them.

OC-NightHawk

09-09-2005, 01:26 AM

Brent spare me. Nothing can be worse then Indian customer support that can't speak English.

Brent Turbo

09-09-2005, 01:33 AM

Brent spare me. Nothing can be worse then Indian customer support that can't speak English.

Perhaps that's because we were a company and not a single end-user, so I see your point there. Phone suppport is one thing, but I know of very few people who are running to call tech support -- most issues these days are strictly software related. As far as hardware support, though, if something ever went bad, we had a replacement overnighted to us, no questions asked. Our BOXX systems arrived with video cards unseated, hard drives cables not plugged in, terrible BIOS configs, etc, etc, etc... and they froze up like a mo-fo, just weird intermittent hardware issues.

MadMax

09-09-2005, 01:45 AM

Oh please.......

From dozens of studio users and a good decade of use, I have never heard anyone whine so much about problems. I have to say I find your post extremely suspicious.

even moreso when you lavish praise on Dell, when just about everyone else complains what a nightmare Dell is.

It sounds like you are posting for no other reason than to be contrary or have a grudge because you didn't get free mousepads.

Brent Turbo

09-09-2005, 01:54 AM

It sounds like you are posting for no other reason than to be contrary or have a grudge because you didn't get free mousepads.

Yes, I took time out of my day to be contrary, not to share my experience. You'd think I dissed Macintosh in the Apple Store...

Everything but the BOXX case itself is stuff you can buy at Newegg, and in the machines I've had opened up, they were very hastily put together at that. I can't think of any other way to put it. Perhaps they were in a hurry when they made our batch? I don't know, I can only tell you what I've experienced. Sorry if that blows your preconceptions...

MadMax

09-09-2005, 03:35 AM

Everything you have posted is extremely contrary to the inumerable glowing reviews from customers on this forum, or those who have had many years experience with BoXX, and You praise Dell when virtually everyone here warns against Dell. It looks very suspicious.

you do the math.

as for off the shelf components, what is your point? pssst.... everyone does.

Yes, I took time out of my day to be contrary, not to share my experience. You'd think I dissed Macintosh in the Apple Store...

Everything but the BOXX case itself is stuff you can buy at Newegg, and in the machines I've had opened up, they were very hastily put together at that. I can't think of any other way to put it. Perhaps they were in a hurry when they made our batch? I don't know, I can only tell you what I've experienced. Sorry if that blows your preconceptions...

Ed Caracappa

09-09-2005, 12:56 PM

We get it wrong once in a while. As hard as we try it happens.

Brent,

Please feel free to call me directly. I will do whatever it takes to make this right.

Ed

lots

09-09-2005, 01:28 PM

Well I can say, from personal experience, Dell sucks. Dell sucks alot :).

We ordered about 40 laptops recently, and a few were DOA. About 50 or so machines at around the time of SP2 for WinXP was released, would not upgrade without some tweaking (They were brand new too O_o), while the rest of our home built machines worked fine. We've had several harddrive crashes, USB port failures, and not to mention that the Dell cases are probably among the worst cases I've ever delt with, though the new Dells we've received recently have better cases (ones that actually are made of some metal!).

All in all the Dell corporate support isn't too bright. The lady I talked to all day yesterday about our DOA laptops kept trying to ask me to load windows and reboot. Funny, because I told her flat out that they WOULD NOT even turn on. So, whatever. I could hear her looking at some sort of "this is what you do" website that is probably internal to Dell. It kept leading her in circles :)

The one thing good I can say about the Dell support for corporate users is its fast. In about a day or so we usually get replacement parts. But the point is, with the ammount of replacement parts we get every week, its somewhat annoying :P

-KDX-

09-09-2005, 03:23 PM

as bad as dell is, gateway is worse...they are like the AOL of computer building..

-KDX-

catamount

09-09-2005, 08:52 PM

dell are great. if you want to return something they send the item in question out straight away and dont request that you return the origional straight away. everyone will have a dell rep that lives nearby them. mine is fifteen minutes away :). you cant beat dell on price either. i would rather build my own. but otherwise i recommend dell. especially with rebates.

i dont work for dell. :)

take note though, what you buy is generally what you get. when you start upgrading things ie add fan controllers thats when the problems start. for example someone dropped a tiny/time (bankrupt) machine off to us and they added a fan controller and their athlon 64 kept overheating because of poor installation and partly poor quality (i think coolermaster?) fan controller.

overall, especially for business. dell are usually your best bet. best of luck to boxx etc etc.

as for mad max. have you noticed boxx sponsors this forum with alot of money?

criticism is good. if you dont report issues. how can boxx improve? you just take it personally, because anything intel is evil. whereas others are open-minded.

MadMax

09-09-2005, 11:57 PM

as for mad max. have you noticed boxx sponsors this forum with alot of money?

criticism is good. if you dont report issues. how can boxx improve? you just take it personally, because anything intel is evil. whereas others are open-minded.

Like I said Snappy, it just seems really funny when I know people in almost every major studio in this town and hear nothing but praise for how good their machines are, then hear someone making the claim that every BoXX they have purchased is junk. One would think that you would hear other complaints of a similar nature if BoXX was as flaky as is being claimed.

of coure I did see something similar to this situation once, and that was a company that hired a complete idiot as a tech, and he blamed everything on the vendors before he was eventually figured out. He broke something, "oh look what they sent us!" he screwed something up, "hey this item is defective" and on and on.

Also, you point out that BoXX is an advertiser here as if that somehow justifies implying that because of it, people won't say anything bad about BoXX. The flaw in that logic is that BoXX don't pay end users for advertising. If they get praised, it is because they EARNED it.

And I'm not taking anything personally Snappy, not even your unprovoked personal attacks.

Unlike you, my opinions are based on research, KNOWING the technology, keeping up with the market and with hands on testing. A bit of contrast to your narrow minded replies when people ask for hardware advice, "Intel all the way" is usually the only reply that you can muster.

No facts, no references, no links, nothing to ever back up your poorly misinformed arguments.

talk about priceless.