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fabmedia
09-02-2005, 04:11 AM
I'm in a conundrum right now. I'm in the middle of creating my demo reel and an animated short, but I'm not too sure what format to choose: 720p or 1080p? I'm not too sure if it's better to use 1K or 2K. I need a bit of help to figure out what would be best for both the short and long term and whether 720p can be used for film.

ALSO psd w/ layers (Lightwave here), JPG, or PNG which is best?

Matty2Phatty
09-02-2005, 06:35 AM
Any format can be converted to film, even DV footage at PAL/NTSC resolution... but as a general rule, if your run runs at 24 fps you'll save some time on film.

And the higher the resolution the better it will look, though i believe i heard once that Pixar render their stuff out at 2k and then up it to 4k so it looks slightly blurry and less computer animated in the final reel. Not sure if there's any truth to that though.

fabmedia
09-02-2005, 06:54 AM
as a general rule, if your run runs at 24 fps you'll save some time on film.

Can that not be translated to 30 fps?

Matty2Phatty
09-02-2005, 11:18 AM
It can be, and is all the time... just about every major film release you see on DVD was converted from 24fps to 30fps.

The reason i said to do it 24fps (progressive not interlaced!!) is because film reels run at 24fps. I'm in Australia so i usually do conversions from 24fps to 25fps, and it's a different process to converting to 30fps so i wouldn't be able to give you the details, but it's DEFINITELY possible to do it.

fabmedia
09-02-2005, 04:26 PM
Cheers mate! Where in Australia are you? My wife is a Kiwi and has relatives in Melbourne as well as Wangarei, NZ.

fwtep
09-02-2005, 05:02 PM
It can be, and is all the time... just about every major film release you see on DVD was converted from 24fps to 30fps.Actually these days most films are released on DVD at 24fps and the DVD player does the conversion to 29.97. There are two main reasons for this: 1) It's easier to author and deal with, and 2) It saves a lot of disc space (it's less frames) so you can encode at a higher bit rate. But this is only for NTSC. For PAL the DVDs must be encoded at its real frame rate-- 25fps.

The reason i said to do it 24fps (progressive not interlaced!!) is because film reels run at 24fps. I'm in Australia so i usually do conversions from 24fps to 25fps, and it's a different process to converting to 30fps so i wouldn't be able to give you the details, but it's DEFINITELY possible to do it.Most often, films shot at 24fps are just sped up to 25fps for PAL video and the pitch of the audio is adjusted slightly down so it doesn't sound faster (higher). (Our eyes don't notice the slight increase in speed as much as our ears would.) So with 24 to 25 there's no interpolation of frames or new frames created, whereas in 24 to 29.97 new frames are created.

Fred

fabmedia
09-02-2005, 05:07 PM
Actually these days most films are released on DVD at 24fps and the DVD player does the conversion to 29.97. There are two main reasons for this: 1) It's easier to author and deal with, and 2) It saves a lot of disc space (it's less frames) so you can encode at a higher bit rate. But this is only for NTSC. For PAL the DVDs must be encoded at its real frame rate-- 25fps.

Most often, films shot at 24fps are just sped up to 25fps for PAL video and the pitch of the audio is adjusted slightly down so it doesn't sound faster (higher). (Our eyes don't notice the slight increase in speed as much as our ears would.) So with 24 to 25 there's no interpolation of frames or new frames created, whereas in 24 to 29.97 new frames are created.

Fred


I never new that. I guess this is why I'm asking the questions.

EvilGnome
09-13-2005, 03:10 AM
Saw this thread and we're trying to decide what framerate to use.

We're producing a short film and would like to make it at 24fps. We're not sure how easy it would be to convert it to PAL(25fps) and NTSC(30fps).

What software and techniques are used? (Premiere? After Effects? Shake?....)

interactiveBoy
09-13-2005, 04:01 AM
Actually these days most films are released on DVD at 24fps and the DVD player does the conversion to 29.97. There are two main reasons for this: 1) It's easier to author and deal with, and 2) It saves a lot of disc space (it's less frames) so you can encode at a higher bit rate. But this is only for NTSC. For PAL the DVDs must be encoded at its real frame rate-- 25fps

This is completely contrary to my experience. I'm not saying you're wrong, but it goes against the DVD spec itself. Do you have a link or some sort of online paper to back this up?

Again, I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just shocked as this seems like it would open the door to a boat load of quality issues because of the different hardware being used.

BTW - sorry to make my first post into this particular forum be of this nature. I'm genuinely interested in learning about what you have stated.

Thanks

fabmedia
09-13-2005, 07:51 PM
interactiveBoy - your statement make a lot of sense, but then again, I'm no expert and leave technology to the ones who make it and make it work. I'm interested to see that being expanded.


EvilGnome - there is a plugin for Shake, Combustion, and AfterEffects that allows the changing of the frame rate. It's made by RE:Vision FX and called Twixtor http://www.revisionfx.com/rstwixtor.htm

Now I'm not too sure how good it is, but the RealSmart Motion Blur is a great solution for motion blur is you are short on rendering time.

I'm going to be creating my short at 720p at 24 fps and take it from there. If movies are made at 24fps then modified to 30fps, then there is a good solution out there for everyone.

EvilGnome
09-13-2005, 11:58 PM
Thanks Fabmedia. Thats pretty pricey for a one off project!

Any alternatives for the financially challenged?

colintheys
09-14-2005, 05:00 AM
Indeed you can create a 24fps DVD and the player will automatically convert. DVD players are designed to do automatic 2:3 pulldown to convert 24fps to 30fps (and I assume it also does 25 in PAL although i don't know this for a fact). This is how many commercial 24fps projects are stored on DVD as well as a growing number of indie 24p projects / telecined film.

As for the 720p vs 1080p issue, you should be sure to consider your system when choosing. While 1080p is higher resolution, fi you don't have a monitor that can show 1920 by 1080 it could become tedious to work with. Also it requires a very fast system to playback, especially if you're dealing with uncompressed or losslessly compressed footage. I just chose to do my next animation in 720p because my monitor can display it and my system can handle it. :) Plus I didn't want to spend the time to create detailed enough textures that you'd see the difference between 720 and 1080. Sometimes more detail serves to reveal flaws. :0

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