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View Full Version : character concept illustration. what works for you??


Baker17
08-30-2005, 08:24 AM
hi,
this is in relation to my research topic, and thread that i created, back to the essence, discussing 2D and 3D METHODS and what is more practical, and will one wipe out the other, from which, i got alot of good perspective.
i would like to know, from you character artists...do you prefer using one or the other, and why?? do you consider using both methods for the finished result?? due to deadlines, does 3D become a bit of a hastle, and 2D much more time beneficial??
i would like to find out common methods, not really techniques, but why you use the 2D or 3D, or both for your finished results, and if you are adiment about using one being better than the other, why?? and is Z-Brush, the future for al(this is a big topic i know)l??


back to the essence (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=266598)

pogonip
08-30-2005, 08:50 AM
I don't know about anyone else but I use pure 2D for creating characters from scratch 99% of the time . However I have used a generic male and female model I have made for painting over costumes and accerories such as packs and weapons and such . I actually thought of using this technique when I got the book on the making of the Final Fantasy movie and the artists had done conceptual paint overs to the characters .

Baker17
09-01-2005, 01:44 AM
anyone reading this?? please put down some words. it would realy be reat to hear your stories. need some more material like this for my research... :cry:

Lync
09-01-2005, 06:26 AM
For concept work I mainly use 2D. 2D is great for quick ideas and can be easily developed. I do however fiddle with 3D occasionally if I need a quick pose idea. For detailing though it has to be 2D (in terms of concept work anyway).

Working toward a finished piece though is another story - of course ;)

Baker17
09-01-2005, 10:21 AM
hey guys,
thanks for putting your words in. in discussing with my lecturer, i decided that i need to better define what type of illustration, cause, concepts can be really quick, to really finished works, depending, so im talking , now, more about character based ilustrations. which now, opens up more debate.

dioxide
09-01-2005, 11:52 AM
As far as creating "characters" i dont think it would matter, you are asking the wrong questions that can all be answered with a yes. Sometimes it depends on the stylistic approach on the part of the artists, and the application abilities. I dont understand what knowledge you are attempting to attain through this statistical survery.

handlebar
09-01-2005, 12:38 PM
For the formulation of caricatures i use a combination of photo reference, a lot of sketch pad work and finally zbrush. zbrush is perfect for developing your ideas fast and gives you the option of working in 2d, 2.5d and 3d. Not sure if thats the sort of answer you were looking for but its a fantastic bit of software that i'm growing to love.

Steve 8)

Baker17
09-01-2005, 11:30 PM
dioxide- thanks for your reply, and everyone.
yeah, i guess my statements are a bit general. im looking more into fantasy characters, as the ones im creating are fantasy based, for my research prototype. and leaning more towards human based characters, not creatures. but im just asking, what works for you, and why, i dont beleive those are wrong questions?? and now, i guess, technology (z-brush) giving the power back into the artists hands, is that where we all should go?

Lync
09-02-2005, 12:42 AM
I think it really depends on the skill base of the artist. Once I got into 3D, I was strictly 3D... to the point that I would model up characters straight from vague photos of the 'general' look I was after. I wouldn't even line up the photos as direct reference. If I wanted an elf-like character where the face is slightly more elongated (or whatever) then I would do a quick outline with splines.

Now I am back into 2D, and have allowed my 3D skills to get a tad rusty, I am a lot more comfortable to sketch out a thought or design.

tatiana
09-02-2005, 02:01 AM
hi,
this is in relation to my research topic, and thread that i created, back to the essence, discussing 2D and 3D METHODS and what is more practical, and will one wipe out the other, from which, i got alot of good perspective.
i would like to know, from you character artists...do you prefer using one or the other, and why?? do you consider using both methods for the finished result?? due to deadlines, does 3D become a bit of a hastle, and 2D much more time beneficial??
i would like to find out common methods, not really techniques, but why you use the 2D or 3D, or both for your finished results, and if you are adiment about using one being better than the other, why?? and is Z-Brush, the future for al(this is a big topic i know)l??

Back to the Essence of Creativity
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=266598


WARNING!! - Long post ahead! :)

I'm breaking up your initial and current questions into an outline to help provide some clarity to your post, or if I've misunderstood some point, you can rephrase maybe...but mostly so I can respond better.
-----------------------------------------------------

Your points seem to consider the following, as regards to illustration for character artists (Are you being industry specific, i.e. as in only for game development; or are you considering other industries that also develop character concepts - film, animation, toy design, advertising, fashion, book illustration/publication, etc.?):

1. Are we going back to traditional 2D art after working with 3D because -
a. 2D programs are "faster" than 3D programs (development time factor)
I use 2D in developing character concepts for toy design and illustration (novelty products and book illustration) because, in part, of development time; but also because of the look of the final result - my clients expect a particular style from my illustrations...and it isn't photorealistic 3D
b. 3D programs leave you with either a photorealistic or stylized character (at present, that is the expected result)
That depends. Are you saying that there is something inbetween those two extremes that cannot be done in 3D?
c. We are bored with the results created from 3D applications
Not true. It just doesn't always fit in our production pipeline at a particular stage in development whether because of time or result for that particular need.

2. While there are advantages with 3D applications as related to film, animation, product and character development...the core issue is Concept Development.
a. Do we think there will be less concept artwork developed with 3D applications in the future?
I still consider any 3D application to be part of an artist's toolset. Or canvas. :) If what you can create with 3D is what you need for your client (even if it's for yourself), then you'll use 3D. It's the end result that matters, not necessarily how you got there.
b. Do we think more concepts will instead be developed with a combination of 2D digital applications and traditional 2D art? In effect, this will replace any concept development currently done with 3D applications. This is because the end result is more exciting for the viewer than what is currently done with 3D.
It always depends on your client's expectations (even when you're the client). As with many production processes, it's some combination of time/quality/cost. For my work as toy designer, most of our character designs and other concepts are results from various combinations of 2D traditional and digital development. I find that to be true as well when I'm creating concepts for book publication. It depends on deadlines, who the artist is (their comfort level with using digital applications...we have some old school artists in China), and the style produced by that the artist for the requested product line.
c. Or...will we learn to look outside the boundaries of the 3D application...as far as it creates results for the production of a still image?
Whatever tool meets the need. Doesn't matter how you get there.

3. In discussing 2D and 3D METHODS and what is more practical, specifically for character artists:
a. Do you prefer 2D OR 3D and why? 2D. I prefer drawing with a pencil because I'm more familiar with it...I've done that all my life...when I haven't drawn for a few days, I can tell - I don't get the results that I want, line, shading quality, etc.. I like playing and working with 3D simply because it's a different way of looking at my artist's canvas. It's another fun tool to create with.
b. Do you use some combination of both methods, and if so, why? Yes, on occasion. When I do, it's because I want specific results that I know I can get...generally as far as the initial sketch is to get my model created; or as far as texturing goes because I have not been satisfied with the results I got with the 3D paint program - it didn't give me the exact look I was going for. Otherwise, I will generally just do 2D
c. Due to deadlines, does 3D become too time-consuming and so 2D is preferred?
Generally, yes.
d. What are some common methods (not techniques) that would make you chose to use 2D or 3D or both for your finished results. As mentioned previously, it's usually because of development time and the look of the final result. The expected results are usually gotten better with 2D (combination traditional/digital) production.
e. If you prefer to use one (2D or 3D) over the other, why? 2D. See my earlier post. :)
f. Is Z-brush the future for all?
I don't see that being necessarily the only option in the future. There will likely be some competition from other developers of 3D products. Or possibly something even better that just hasn't hit the consumer market just yet... :D

Baker17
09-02-2005, 09:45 AM
tanja-
thank you so much for your informative answer.
i dont want [eople to think im looking for a debate, as to what is better. my research is going to be design through research, and resarch through design. looking into current illustration (character based) methods, and what works well, and what people use, and why...not wether one is better. after all, its the story being visually told that matters, the average viewer, unless an artist him/herself. i would be looking more into game, and film, but for this thread, any field will do, i will summarise what i need as far as my research goes.
but thank you so much for your reply.

i guess what im trying to say, as far as traditional approaches in 3D(LIKE Zbrush) being the future, is that its less technical, and less time, as far as the standard 3D programmes. and if the job can be done as affective, and as realistic, in a far shorter time frame, isnt that the standard to be?? if any illustrator pulls it off , as good, and as faster, then great, whatever works. but im really interested in how character designers (and for this forum, any field) work, and why they use the methods they do, for time sake, for better effect...what attracts you , to your chosen method, 2D, or 3D, or both??

handlebar
09-04-2005, 12:15 PM
I am attracted to zbrush because it blurs the boundries between 2d and 3d, i have drawn all my life, and to be able to sketch in 3d with a pen tablet in a 2d way seems a very natural way of working to me. Ideas can be explored quickly, which keeps things fresh. The thought of starting over again if you don't like the way things are turning out isn't an issue like it would be in more traditional apps, which leads to greater creativity and the freedom to experiment.
I suppose the answer to your question would be both 2d and 3d, but not in a clear cut way.

Baker17
09-07-2005, 11:41 PM
hey handlebar
thanks for your input.
i definitly think, that ZBrush will be the future for character development. the combination as you say of traditional methods with 3D output, just incredible. wish i had a copy! but it definitly makes the process alot ofaster, and easier to visualise. hope to get some more posts here soon!
;)

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