Maxon's Modules/Bundles

[Leonardo Vega]

Maxon,

I suggest reducing the prices on your modules so that we can just pick and choose what we want

- or -

Do away with the pre-made bundles and let us choose which modules we want.

Like I've said in an earlier thread, if XL has 5 modules and costs $1900, why does it matter which 5 I choose, if they all cost the same? I'd like someone to explain that because it confuses me.

Because if they are not all the same and Maxon feels some are inferior to others, why do they all cost $400 lol? :shrug:

- Leo

[Per-Anders]

So another thread complaining, now that the modules should be cheaper. They already are pretty cheap last time I checked, check out the pricing on plugins and modules for other software :

Shave & Haircut for Maya - $399 for a single node locked license (single machine rendering), $599 6 pack floating license, $950 12 pack, $1800 24 pack, $3100 48pack... ...$8000 144 pack, $??? Site

Shave & Haircut for C4D - $395 single license... but with unlimited render nodes with net.

-----

Syflex - $2200 (cloth only)

Mocca & Clothilde - $495 (cloth, rigging and animation toolset)

-----

Thinking Particles ror 3D Max - $1295

Thinking Particles for C4D - $395

... do i have to go on?

Seriously, these threads are just beginning to sound really whiney. Software is not a right, it's a luxury.

3D Software is expensive because it caters to a very small market, and the software can do insane things. Consider yourself lucky that you're not getting into teh compositing and finalising market, check out hte prices on some After Effects plugins (stuff which cinema and other 3d apps do already for so much less), or even the core applications.

To me Maxon price well. It's not geared for everyone, Maxon have to recoup the costs they invest, and afford to stay in business. However it's not so expensive that occasional users and amatures can't afford it, hell the module system is there for that reason so that you can buy it on the installment plan. If you're a profesional then C4D and it's modules is an absolute steal, you can make it back in no time at all!

The trouble is at the end of the day kicking up a huge fuss and complaining that it's too expensive for you, is akin to complaining that a car is too expensive for you. There are cheaper (XSI Fnd and Blender), and more expensive. But you don't go up to a Mercedes dealer and say "You should charge less, I want this for free! You're ignoring the casual driver market! Look at Honda you pay less and get more! Waaah!". Sorry, but it just doesn't happen that way. They might work out a payment plan, or even leasing, whatever is available to them in order to try and catch your custom, but at the end of the day it's going to cost you the same ammount... hell if you do take em up on those loans then it'll end up costing you a lot more than an outright purchase. So perhaps Maxon should add loans to their website?

[phexitol]

I mostly agree with Maxon's pricing and upgrade system. The two main exceptions have been mentioned before:

If you upgrade from [ 8.0 -> 8.5 -> 9.0 ], you should pay less for 9 than someone who went straight from 8.0 to 9.0.

The bundles are great, but there are certain modules I could have done without, except that I saved money by getting a (more expensive) bundle because it had the modules I wanted (and I still had to add a module which wasn't in any bundles). They should offer either more bundle variety, or better even, custom bundles, where the more modules you get, the better your pricing.

Maxon should do my laundry and walk my dog. Ok, this one is a bit silly :D

[Leonardo Vega]

Maxon doesn't have to do anything... I know that.

But that didn't stop people from complaing about the lack of ngons, right? I remember how that's all people talked about. And they got it.

So if people want a change in pricing, or just in how modules or bundles are handled, why can't we speak up?

We're not asking for the impossible. You honestly think charging $400 to upgrade a $500 module is correct, when the cost to upgrade the core (the main app) is $300?

Is it fair that when I want to upgrade my bundle, they charge me $400 for a plugin I don't even want or I'll be forced to pay more to upgrade module per module?

If you have $$$ and can handle it fine, but some of us have a budget. If I hadn't invested in the studio bundle, I wouldn't even care about all this. But I paid $$$ for my bundle and I'd like to "maintain" it and not let it go to waste. But I feel like the cost to upgrade is unfair.

Now, does Maxon have to listen? Nope. Will I (or others who feel the same) continue with Maxon? Maybe not.

Btw, don't take this personally :)

- Leo

[Per-Anders]

ah, so perhaps the argument there is that the upgrade price should be higher? to make the modules seem cheaper?

Sorry, but the relationship between the upgrade price for the core and the straight module price seems totally arbitrary.

From what I can see from the Maxon website upgrade from 9 to 9.5 is a flat fee of $295 regardless of bundle (yeah that includes the studio bundle), with optionally a flat fee $75 for all modules (not per module) you own to be upgraded from r8 to r9 if for instance you bought the C4D core and x,y,z modules rather than a bundle. Very cheap flat fee at that (go check out how much users of other 3d softs pay for an upgrade).

About speaking up, that's fine, but why not email maxon instead of filling the boards with about ten threads on the same topic! I mean hell, you're asking people if they would like to pay less... well of course they're going to say "heck yeah!". But there's no justification for this except "I dont' want to", "it's inconvenient to pay" etc.

[Leonardo Vega]

Sorry, but the relationship between the upgrade price for the core and the straight module price seems totally arbitrary.

I'm talking about the upgrade cost of the core compared to *upgrading* a module (not the straight price). How do you justify that it costs more to upgrade a $500 upgrade than it is to upgrade the main app which is $700?

From what I can see from the Maxon website upgrade from 9 to 9.5 is a flat fee of $295 regardless of bundle (yeah that includes the studio bundle), with optionally a flat fee $75 for all modules (not per module) you own to be upgraded from r8 to r9 if for instance you bought the C4D core and x,y,z modules rather than a bundle.

But you forgot that going from R8 - R9 requires a person to upgrade Mocca R1 - Mocca R2 which is $400 and Advanced Renderer which is $200. So add it all up and we're at $975.

About speaking up, that's fine, but why not email maxon instead of filling the boards with about ten threads on the same topic!

It would make a bigger difference if Maxon heard many voices and not just one. It's like saying, why didn't people just complain about ngons via e-mails? The forum was full of that talk until R9.

I mean hell, you're asking people if they would like to pay less... well of course they're going to say "heck yeah!". But there's no justification for this except "I dont' want to", "it's inconvenient to pay" etc

Look at the poll... only ONE option refers to pricing. So I don't see your point.

- Leo

[interactiveBoy]

while i think the module idea has turned out to be not so convenient for most, the current pricing scheme is great. I'm a Studio Bundle user and have been since even before it was even given that name. (I purchased an unlimited Net license back in version 6).

I don't know where this $400 to upgrade a $500 module thing is coming from. As Per stated, it only costs $75 to update all modules. That's not $75 per module, it's $75 for all the modules you own. And it's being looked at in the wrong way anyway. People are not being charged more for upgrading individual modules. People are being charged less to update a bundle. No one says you have to upgrade anyway. If you don't need it, don't buy it.

Honestly, I was a very late upgrader to version 9. (I didn't upgrade until July of this year) Even though I rely on this software partially to make a living. So there is nothing wrong with not upgrading. But I don't understand the point of these circular posts.

My hope is that Maxon will completely do away with the modular approach in the future, but for now I'm perfectly happy because I don't use that approach.

[Leonardo Vega]

I don't know where this $400 to upgrade a $500 module thing is coming from. As Per stated, it only costs $75 to update all modules. That's not $75 per module, it's $75 for all the modules you own.

Like I said, to go from R8 - R9 requires you to upgrade Mocca R1 - R2 which is $400 (unless you decide to pay $800 for the studio upgrade).

In other words, if I went and bought Cinema 4D today, one month later bought Mocca and Body Paint, to upgrade those today would be $1100. $300 more than a studio bundle upgrade (that upgrades 8 modules).

So it seems that Cinema 4D is only good if you buy a bundle. People buying just 1 or 2 modules are getting penalized.

- Leo

[Per-Anders]

vegabros, you say you want to maintain you studio bundle, but two things don't ring true here, firstly you complain that you don't want to upgrade your modules, and second you didn't between R8 and R9. if you don't want to, you don't have to, but you can't complain later on when it costs more than a simple point upgrade to get current. as shown before when maxon didn't differentiate (8.0/8.5 to r9) people really complained a lot. it's not fair on the users who did upgrade, nor to maxon.

as for the upgrade price, then yes there is a discrepancy on the maxon website (where it says studio bundle is $895, but studio with S&T is $595, so i'd call up and find out directly how much it costs). as of yet they've not given upgrade pricing between 8 and r9 (though someone mentioned on the other thread somewhere ugprade pricing and it was nowhere near what you're quoting).

[Leonardo Vega]

mdme_saddie I'm not sure I quite understood your point but here's my scenario:

I bought Cinema 4D Studio R8. Never complained, I love this program. I waited patiently for two key features, ngons and motionbuilder support. And like always, Maxon's comes through with flying colors and provides.

So now, I feel it's worth upgrading my bundle. But when I was told it would cost me $800 to upgrade, I couldn't believe it. I asked why is it $800? "Oh because it comes with Sketch and Toon". Ok... well I don't need sketch and toon, can you take it out? "If we did, there would not be a big difference in price"... uh, then why did the price jump because it was added lol?

So what can I do?

"You have to upgrade the core which is $300, pay $75 to allow all existing modules that haven't been updated to work on R9"... ok so far so good. But then I was told I need to upgrade my Mocca R1 to Mocca R2 (or I loose Mocca's functionality in R9) and that's $400. WOW! $400? For a module that costs $500, thats quite a high *upgrade* price. And that's not all, I also need to upgrade my Advanced Renderer and that's $200. So my alternative route takes me to $975.

So I feel some what forced to pay for the full studio upgrade.

- Leo

[Leonardo Vega]

The point is if the modules were cheaper to upgrade, people would have the option to upgrade modules seperately.

Why even offer modules separately if it will cost an arm and a leg to upgrade them seperately? I don't see the point in having modules if it doesn't make any sense to buy Cinema R9 w/ only a few modules and maintain them.

Cinema 4D R8 w/ BP R1 & MOCCA R1 sold for $1700. Now, if I want to upgrade my little package to R9, it would cost me $1275 (since I need to upgrade Mocca R1 - R2 and BP R1 - R2).

Now, Cinema 4D R8 XL comes with 5 modules sold for about $1900, and if I want to upgrade it to R9, it would cost me only $600. And I'm getting FIVE modules upgraded.

So a person that just bought C4D with BP and MOCCA alone is screwed. So the modular system makes no sense.

I think a "create your own bundle" would be great from Maxon. Also, doing away with modules and just offering a Standard, XL, and Studio package (where everything is intergrated with the core) would be ideal too. That way it's one clear upgrade path. The guy who bought XL knows exactly what he will pay for an upgrade, so will the studio user and standard user. It will be cheaper and better because you don't have to release new serial numbers and keep track of modules.


My 2 cents (although by now, I'm at about a buck and a half lol).

-Leo

[Per-Anders]

Sorry I still think this is pretty silly. You're upset about the upgrade price (compare it to Maya, XSI or Max and you'll see you're getting a great deal), because it's not signifigantly less to not get a bargain upgrade deal and get Sketch & Toon as well?

You can buy modules a-la-carte if you want, that is the purpose of modules after all, but it should be understood that it will cost you to upgrade them individually, just as if they're seperate, that's the price of flexibility. Buying a bundle is making a deal where it's cheaper to purchase, it's also understood at the time of purchase that it will be cheaper to upgrade the bundle as a whole.

This is in effect for modules such as Mocca too. You can't complain that to upgrade to Mocca 2 unfairly costs money! That's like complaining that upgrading a version of photoshop costs money. It's based on your desire rather than any need.

You're saying it's unfair that because you have more stuff to upgrade it costs more. But that's not taking into account that it's more stuff! Rather than taking it to the forums in countless threads that are honestly getting old (the message was clear teh first time), take it to Maxon, phone them up! Email them! Talk to their sales staff, find out really how much it will cost you, then if they cannot do you any deals either send a letter of complaint to Maxon if you really think you have a legitimate complaint, or simply spend your money elsewhere, remember the market is a major factor in pricing of anything, inclusing 3d software (far more than web forum complaints).

As it is the constant stream of these threads has turned the C4D area into frankly a place that is no longer enjoyable to hang out in, that is no longer about improvement, excitement and interest in a new technology, artwork and general sharing. It's made it into LW forum mk2.

[Erik Heyninck]

Your personal problem against my personal case then, and that's afaic, final.
Coming from 7.3 art (=no animation) and Bodypaint, I got pyro from a friend who upgraded to XL. Maxon kindly accepted the transfer of license and when I got 8 (core and AR), they added a new pyro cd. Then came 8.1, 8.2 for free, and as I liked 8.5, I got it. Meanwhile BP2 was added.
I upgraded to 9 and AR2. New cd's for BP2 and Pyro were added. For free as I did not wait months and months.
Then I wanted to add Mocca2 and Tp. Seen what I already had, Maxon made me a good offer.
Now that I know that, like Bjorn said, that Maxon still has sufficient independancy to choose for their own, I may well upgrade to 9.5.

I *never* had any argument with anyone of the Maxon crew. I *always* got a satisfying answer to all my mails. If necessary straight from a coder.

You are right that adding a module like S&T like that and force people who have Studio to upgrade with the extra cost was not the best of options. There could have been a "studio plus". Yet: how many people do have XL but have only one computer? Yet, they paid for NetRender, no?
But you are wrong when you compare adding a much wanted feature (under popular pressure) to setting prices.

Indeed, the modular systems has its disadvantages. But there is also the positive side: someone with core can add AR without having to pay for XL. You can even add S&T to those two if that's what you need, without having to get the whole studio. And it's normal that when you buy separate parts, these are more expensive than the grouped one.
That is common practice.

Maxon as a company is not perfect. But then again: neither am I. Or you. (you have contradicted yourself quite a few times, remember?) And up to now, I never had the same human contact with any other company via the Internet.

And really: if you want to discuss prices, bid and praise: do so personally or by phone. But not in public. Your trying to start a revolution, a core of unsatisfied people who will, together, force the ennemy on their knees so that they adapt their prices will not work. Contact Maxon with your ideas on prices and discuss with those who can do something about it. Who knows: you may benefit from it. But don't do this in public.

See ya in a more creative thread!

[Srek]

I can't see this thread contributing anything to the community.
Anyone interested in continuing the discussion on this topic please stick to the already running thread, this one is closed.

Cheers
Björn