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lllab
11-10-2005, 11:21 AM
two weeks are gone,
any news for the release date?

it was said its days not weeks, that still true or will we better plan not to get it soon?

i am desperatly waiting for faster GI!

thanks for info

cheers
stefan

DynamicRealism
11-10-2005, 08:47 PM
"faster gi eh"
1 minute and 23 seconds @ 1.8ghz
soon fellas, soon =)
http://dbxs.dynalias.org/tower2.jpg

xeno3d
11-10-2005, 09:04 PM
That looks sweet. And the render time.. niice :)

andronikos916
11-10-2005, 10:52 PM
nice result and amazing time! ...hope to have the new render king of speed soon!

dann_stubbs
11-10-2005, 11:01 PM
nice result and amazing time! ...hope to have the new render king of speed soon!

patent pending, patent pending, patent pending ; )

(quoting homer simpson in one of the episodes)

dann

Ernest Burden
11-11-2005, 03:26 AM
i am desperatly waiting for faster GI!

"faster gi eh"

Alright, James. Enough already. Here's one for ya:

I am desperately waiting for the FR2 release!

lllab
11-11-2005, 08:02 AM
I am desperately waiting for the FR2 release!

--me tooo.

i need it for my next job, urgently, heavy radiocity indoor stuff.
please release it, release it, release it pleeeeease!

cheers
stefan

STRAT
11-11-2005, 08:04 AM
lllab, i know you dont need me to say it, but i certainly wouldn't depend on a s/w release to do a job :o you might have a long wait. (sorry, ARE having a long wait)

trouble is, the hype and tension are massive now. just hope it delivers.

LucentDreams
11-11-2005, 08:32 AM
can't ebelive how patient you guys are being, I mean your all constantly inquiring and such, but very orderly and polite I msut say. Funny thing is, if this was maxon you guys would be riding them so hard for a blunder like this, what is it about cebas thats making you so understanding?

andronikos916
11-11-2005, 08:56 AM
can't ebelive how patient you guys are being, I mean your all constantly inquiring and such, but very orderly and polite I msut say. Funny thing is, if this was maxon you guys would be riding them so hard for a blunder like this, what is it about cebas thats making you so understanding?

I agree with you here... I guess - only guess that they understand that cebas need motivation and understanding where Maxon is big enought to know and judge by themselfs.

cy,
Andronikos

STRAT
11-11-2005, 09:04 AM
yeah. cebas are a much smaller and personal operation. i guess peeps are giving them more space because of this. they're not commercially a 'big boy' like Maxon i suppose.

but, both in here and on the FR2 forum at Cebas.com people still are getting het up and irritated somewhat.

JDP
11-11-2005, 09:15 AM
Well personally I treat everyone equally and must say that I'm not particularly enamoured by the way Cebas conduct business, but what can you do, either cancel your order or wait. Talking of waiting what happened to your book or S&T DVD, Kai?

lllab
11-11-2005, 10:54 AM
@strat:

well, as being full integrated and using standard cinema materials,it is no problem to "go back" and render it in AR if something fails.

i phoned with cebas some time ago, they told me i can take just any(almost) c4d scene and render it- just with fr GI used.

and that is what i needed. so there isnt much risk, just more speed.

cheers
stefan

Ernest Burden
11-11-2005, 11:18 AM
can't ebelive how patient you guys are being

Obviously our interest in FinalRender St2 is only a little curiosity, since AR2.5 meets all of our needs.

No, actually it does not. And many of us, but certainly me, have deadlines today, Monday, Tuesday, etc. The faster the render engine the easier (OK, its a small part, but an important one) we get our projects out the door. Oh, and I don't have to charge less if the render takes 1/4 of the time, in fact, I can charge more.

No rush.

STRAT
11-11-2005, 11:26 AM
@strat:

well, as being full integrated and using standard cinema materials,it is no problem to "go back" and render it in AR if something fails.

i phoned with cebas some time ago, they told me i can take just any(almost) c4d scene and render it- just with fr GI used.

and that is what i needed. so there isnt much risk, just more speed.

cheers
stefan

great. sounds ideal. one of the major factors i'm after is to render my normal c4d scenes with no extra faffing about required, just faster GI.

Thalaxis
11-11-2005, 01:44 PM
can't ebelive how patient you guys are being, I mean your all constantly inquiring and such, but very orderly and polite I msut say. Funny thing is, if this was maxon you guys would be riding them so hard for a blunder like this, what is it about cebas thats making you so understanding?

Maybe it's because people expect better from Maxon ;)

flingster
11-11-2005, 05:30 PM
can't ebelive how patient you guys are being, I mean your all constantly inquiring and such, but very orderly and polite I msut say. Funny thing is, if this was maxon you guys would be riding them so hard for a blunder like this, what is it about cebas thats making you so understanding?

nope i don't think thats the case at all...its just people are beginning to realise this forumsis littered with lost dreams and deadlines...reality bites.

maxon take a kickin like the rest of em....then came maxwell...and they took there kickin and its still on going to be honest....now its cebas...i frankly i'm tied of all this kickin business...my foot is starting to hurt...when will software companies get round to service delivery...they think providing support for software is service delivery...its only one element...for some reason software companies think that its alright to miss deadlines because "well thats what happens with writing software"...deadlines slip yadda yadda..its not alright and its not acceptible...they are in business and if they want to remain in business they need to treat customers with some respect and professionalism. There are few industries like software development that this would be acceptible..and imo its not acceptible here either...so called ghost marketing...advertising a products 6 months earlier than its available...and then slipping on the release date...its BAD practice and should be shown up for it everytime it happens whether its maxon, next limit or cebas.

the software companies need to clean up their act and remember he who pays the piper calls the tune and they are not immune to this fact as much as they would like to believe it. The sooner they realise this the better for all involved...its about respecting their customers...and not taking them for granted in this way. so don't bulls**t me with excuses about missed deadlines or not commenting on this or that...i'm not really interested in that boll**ks really i want to know when i can have the product and that its fit for the purpose intended...rather than being sold a turkey at easter!

honest is the best policy imo....there should be a code of practice for this sort of thing maybe its just an ethical thing...this is not to say cebas are unethical they are just subject the the same attitudes that affect the industry wide attitude.
rant over...happy now...breathe...breathe...calm...calm...

do people really think i'm off on this...
is it that software companies are more prone to this?
if so why?
is it that they just deal with in wrong?
can it be improved?
i don't doubt any of these companies hearts are in the wrong place...as we well know their intension are always in the right place...they are just failing on promises to customers when it comes down to it...they need to control and manage this better.

JamesMK
11-11-2005, 05:49 PM
Well, software development really IS entirely different than any other business. Anyone who has been involved in actual system design, coding, debugging and so forth knows this.

The only sane way to handle it really is what Maxon is doing - i.e. never pre-announce anything until it's actually available.




.

duderender
11-11-2005, 06:30 PM
can't ebelive how patient you guys are being, I mean your all constantly inquiring and such, but very orderly and polite I msut say. Funny thing is, if this was maxon you guys would be riding them so hard for a blunder like this, what is it about cebas thats making you so understanding?

For me, its not about being patient. I knew this was going to happen. Cebas is like this. Look at FinalRender Stage-0 and Stage-1. Promised deadlines and they were way out, I can remember it being several weeks overdue if not months (it was so long ago I can't remember specifics). On top of that they were releasing extremely buggy software. I watched a colleague who is a Max user suffer through Cebas' release pains.

So, yes it does suck but seeing Cebas' history I just expected it. Besides in the end, its just a tool and the tools don't make the artist. Tools simply aid the artist to translate their vision to the chosen medium.

To be honest, all this reliance on GI doesn't make a lot of sense. Yes it can be useful but in the end nothing beats proper lighting.

Ernest Burden
11-11-2005, 07:00 PM
Well, software development really IS entirely different than any other business. Anyone who has been involved in actual system design, coding, debugging and so forth knows this.

Try timing artwork delivery.

I suppose I might mention how an unpredictably slow render engine might contribute to missing our deadlines--but then I'm opening myself up for a Kai-ing. You know, for a moderator of his stature, its really surprising that he would suggest I was less the artist because I dared blame a 16 hour render for deadline issues, or not being able to offer additional views for' tomorrow' when the render won't be competed by then. My humor is lost lately, I guess.

Flingy, I think you're right on the mark with your post. However, I think the problem is the lack of communication. The process of producing the product--like a work of art--isn't always predictable. I'm sure Cebas, Maxon, NextLimit, etc. are working as hard as they can to produce a good release product. Of those, only NL actually took people's money before blowing their self-imposed deadlines.

Life goes on...

flingster
11-11-2005, 07:48 PM
Well, software development really IS entirely different than any other business. Anyone who has been involved in actual system design, coding, debugging and so forth knows this.

.

on this unfortunately we have to fundamentally disagree i'm afraid. its sloppy business practice and bad project management....flame on baby...flame on.. ;-)

coding, debugging etc are a fact of life but they have always been there...these are essentially processes which need to be met in order to complete project. you don't get toyota complaining about having to do some engineering!

Not all software development is late to deadline remember.
projects in all sorts of business areas are late on delivery its not something singular to software development...its just it happens with regularity in software development...and this is not all down to the differences between software industry and other industries. but somehow developers seem to think they are immune to the constraints or dictats that other industries would take for granted. but hey its just my opinion bud you free to disagree as no doubt all programmers will...heh heh.

Incarnadine
11-11-2005, 09:52 PM
If it can't be perfect and on time, then my personal opinion is I would rather it be perfect and late than unusable and on-time. That said I also have to state that it is just good customer relations practice to keep the customer informed as to progress/issues during such a situation. Clamming up does not do anyone, vendor or customer, any good and may sometimes sour the relationship.

Ernest Burden
11-11-2005, 10:12 PM
If it can't be perfect and on time, then my personal opinion is I would rather it be perfect and late than unusable and on-time.

I'll take the middle ground--usable, flawed, on time. I do not own any unflawed software. As a matter of fact, I produce no unflawed artwork, either. Stuff has to go out, even with a few issues.

it is just good customer relations practice to keep the customer informed as to progress/issues during such a situation.

Exactly. However, I do not see much marketplace downside for these companies, due to the lack of a competitor that is much better.

Per-Anders
11-11-2005, 10:56 PM
not all software companies tell their users what their deadlines are... not all software companies have their users constantly harrasing them to tell the users their deadlines.

i can understand why you guys are upset about a company telling you that they're going to deliver on a certain date and then the silence even if they've not taken any of your money yet. on the other hand why would you the users be planning on it being in your hands by a certain time if it's not released already? isn't that equally reckless? sometimes calculated risks just don't pay off :/

the point kai is making is that you guys are kicking maxon for not giving out pre-announcements, kicking them to tell you what they're planning on doing and when all the frigging time, but are kicking nextlimit and cebas for telling you this information then suffering the realworld consequences of being brought a little closer to the development cycle. you want maxon to tell you guys what theyre' doing with some expectation that it'll somehow be different from other software development, which as jamesmk stated is a unique industry.

the only reason other software appears to be out on time is because it's only announced when it's done! you will never know what the internal deadline was. pretty much all software is late to it's deadline especially when teh software is large and highly complex, and the users are constantly pressing for more and faster updates. the intervening time between announcement and release isn't development (apart from if there is time maybe fixing a couple of minor last minute bugs) it's logistics, marketing and manuals time! maxon takes this approach (they once disasterously tried the other approach for the r8 launch if anyone remembers that fiasco).

so i guess kais overall point was, try a bit of balance and treat people fairly. you got what you wanted here, they've let you more in to what's going on, pre-announced as requested, you're not even charged yet. alternatively if what's going on here makes you unhappy pause and think for a moment about this before requesting that maxon tell you this or that about what they're doing.

on the respect thing, i beg to differ flingster, as a mod i see it as the other way around, the companies are being very respectful day to day, but i sure see a lot of lack of respect in the c4d forum (and a certain ammount in other forums too), so it's gotta be coming from somewhere ;)

Per-Anders
11-11-2005, 11:02 PM
with regards how final render is progressing itself. it would be better if cebas could say, but i'd say don't worry, as srek pointed out, silence isn't always worrysome, nor lacking respect for any users, it just means some balls are being busted :D (and don't forget that a lot of development is not in producing stuff that's pretty to show but is in making things happen internally so it's not like it would make a a meaningful or marketing rich peice of update information).

and the engine itself i must say is very nice indeed, i'm sure that when there is some nice progress to show cebas will be showing it to you guys and you will be pleased that your patience worked out.

JDP
11-11-2005, 11:06 PM
I have to say I agree with everything Flingster has said. Also I have to say that not all of us here give Maxon a hard time. One of the reasons I use C4D is because of their excellent customer care (in U.K) and support, who always get back to me promptly. To me this makes a big difference.

DynamicRealism
11-12-2005, 02:04 AM
...it just means some balls are being busted :D (and don't forget that a lot of development is not in producing stuff that's pretty to show but is in making things happen internally so it's not like it would make a a meaningful or marketing rich peice of update information).



totally true 900%

Incarnadine
11-12-2005, 02:44 AM
I have never kicked at Maxon, I acknowledge their stated policy and see no issue with it. I am also not worried that cebas will deliver. As a hobbiest, I am not facing any issues with when other than I WANT IT! - NOW! (grin).
It is just that for myself, I prefer to be kept informed when someone is not progressing on schedule so that if necessary, I can fall back on workarounds I have embedded into my projects schedules (professionally that is).
BTW, I understand development, both s/w and h/w and the fact that it is not always the flashy stuff that takes the time. If the customer never has to think about or see my work, I have done it right.

lllab
11-12-2005, 10:18 AM
"and the engine itself i must say is very nice indeed, i'm sure that when there is some nice progress to show cebas will be showing it to you guys and you will be pleased that your patience worked out."

does that mean the connection plugin isnt that nice?

i start to worry even more....

stefan

JamesMK
11-12-2005, 11:51 AM
does that mean the connection plugin isnt that nice?

Certainly not. I cannot even imagine how a connection could possibly be better than the FR one.



.

Srek
11-12-2005, 12:21 PM
Certainly not. I cannot even imagine how a connection could possibly be better than the FR one.

Confirmed, fR stage 2 just looks and feels like an integral part of CINEMA. cebas realy put the SDK to good use here.
Cheers
Björn

lllab
11-12-2005, 01:10 PM
ok, sounds better...

cheers
stefan

philhoole
11-12-2005, 01:32 PM
Can anyone clear up the mystery of the ipclamp system for me please. There is a post on the Cebas forum (does anyone from Cebas actually participate there ?) that states, ipclamp is installed on the users server. Now I don't have a server, just a Windows workgroup in a p2p arrangement. There is no server as such.

Will this be a problem for me ?

Just to add my little moan. In my day job (not CG related), if I am late delivering then my customers are normally understanding, IF you let them know there is a problem. But, if you don't inform them and they don't get any info they get quite frustrated. They call me and they are already annoyed. They too have jobs that have timescales and need to make plans and if you let them know, they can workaround it. Saying nothing is worse than delivering news of a delay.

Just a quick 2 minute update from Cebas is all that's needed.

dann_stubbs
11-12-2005, 01:50 PM
Can anyone clear up the mystery of the ipclamp system for me please. There is a post on the Cebas forum (does anyone from Cebas actually participate there ?) that states, ipclamp is installed on the users server. Now I don't have a server, just a Windows workgroup in a p2p arrangement. There is no server as such.

Will this be a problem for me ?

just go back a couple pages and read the post i made that was the cebas newsletter (if you signed up for the newsletter then you probably got this yourself too)

your workstation will act as the license server - no need to worry. it is just a nice way to "float" the licenese around.

dann

Continuumx
11-12-2005, 01:57 PM
...snip....

the point kai is making is that you guys are kicking maxon for not giving out pre-announcements, kicking them to tell you what they're planning on doing and when all the frigging time, but are kicking nextlimit and cebas for telling you this information then suffering the realworld consequences of being brought a little closer to the development cycle. you want maxon to tell you guys what theyre' doing with some expectation that it'll somehow be different from other software development, which as jamesmk stated is a unique industry.


Good comment, I appreciate the closeness that has been made in bringing the development process closer to the users, it can be seen in a number of plugin developers for C4D as well.

I want the trend to continue but the user base, and I mean Max, Maya, and other users as well will have to slowly adapt their expectations and behavior to this new trend and learn the tremendous benefits of getting this close to development and knowing how to stay arms length from the developers so that they may keep focus without feeling some kind of reactive judgements from the users.

I appreciate the glimpses of FR that we have seen, looks like I may have missed the boat to get in on it at the early bird process, but I do intend to keep an watchful eye on developments as it may be a consideration for my toolset in the future.

DynamicRealism
11-15-2005, 07:48 PM
ladies and gentlemen, i hope all of your blood is boiling at this point =) ... ur thirst will be quenched *soon* ;)

nycL45
11-15-2005, 08:11 PM
ladies and gentlemen, i hope all of your blood is boiling at this point =) ... ur thirst will be quenched *soon* ;)

To which are you referring? FR2? Maxwell Render?(due on the street in one week, 22 Nov.)

andronikos916
11-15-2005, 08:39 PM
he is talking about FrSt2...

Ernest Burden
11-15-2005, 08:43 PM
*soon*

What the hell does that mean?

FredSpeaks
11-15-2005, 08:46 PM
And for us Mac users it is *soon* + ~a month.

jph
11-15-2005, 09:05 PM
IT IS BOILING, and if i could get a hold of you I would very much like to beat it out of you!, who are you to know more than we do! when is soon!

damn it I want desperately, hopefully a GI that works a shader tree with mindbugling possibilities....

jan:twisted::argh:

BlackLizard
11-15-2005, 09:43 PM
Status: Interactive Mode

Thanks Dynamics, last time I've read your "soon" was on 11-10-2005, 09:47 PM ;) , let's hope this time is really "soon"...I know you can't say too much about FR2 but can you tell us something about Edwin?, I hope he's ok, seems so strange he just disappeared without even a simple post saying "soon" or the like after so many complains here and on Cebas Forum

Status: Back to wait mode...

JamesMK
11-15-2005, 09:48 PM
Edwin is totally alive and kicking, yet extremely busy.





.

lllab
11-16-2005, 11:01 AM
yes soon is very relative. i found out in person that german friends of mine often use soon ("bald, gleich") very different than we austrians(also german speaking).

in austria, and maybe most of the world soon is a few minutes, very few hours.
german friends say to me "see you soon" = "bis gleich" in the morning when i we have made a appointment in evening with them.

i alsways find that funny and a little strange, but thats different cultures and languages i guess:-)

so when i german says soon, i translate it for myself into "see you later" (bis später)- then i wont have problems.

i dont know if this also is somehow tha case for cebas, and it is meant with NO offense or critique at all. i just find it funny how different countries use the some words different.

still i hope soon wont be too long:-)

cheers
stefan

xeno3d
11-16-2005, 12:46 PM
Today would be the perfect day for fr2 to come out.. it's rainy and nasty here....

Ph0n33z
11-16-2005, 03:22 PM
Well boys.........

I have it on good authority that the wait for FR2 is ALMOST OVER.
Lets just say, Next Limit may not be the first out of the gate!:thumbsup:

Thalaxis
11-16-2005, 05:30 PM
Good -- my digital donut is starting to get moldy ;)

nycL45
11-16-2005, 08:14 PM
Their rounding the last turn! Whichever renderer, FR2 or M~R, crosses the finish line first, it looks like it will be by a nose, or a head at most. Maybe we will be witness to the first photo-renderer finish? Giddyap! Crack, crack!

xeno3d
11-16-2005, 08:20 PM
NICE!! look at this :)

http://www.cebas.com/forums/cebas/viewtopic.php?t=3215&sid=d1149966a8dd786aca96c388399a4514

nycL45
11-16-2005, 09:05 PM
xeno3D. I think your post #295 did the trick. Congrats!

AdamT
11-16-2005, 10:34 PM
I hate to cross-post, but ... I'm downloading now!!

Thalaxis
11-16-2005, 11:57 PM
I hate to cross-post, but ... I'm downloading now!!

Let us know if you actually convince it to work -- and let us know how!

DynamicRealism
11-17-2005, 12:01 AM
make sure your routers arent being fishy =\ , had a few instances myself with that back in the past, i ended up just hooking up directly to dl the lisence info, then switched it back behind the router.

dann_stubbs
11-17-2005, 12:02 AM
Let us know if you actually convince it to work -- and let us know how!

was there every any info as to the osx version?

i pre-ordered the osx version (since my workstation is osx) - but since i have windows render boxes i don't know if i will get a download link now or when the osx is out. or course i'd like it now to try it on the render farm. : )

i'll read through the links - i may have missed it.

dann

DynamicRealism
11-17-2005, 12:04 AM
In response of MACS : NO , i am not aware from what i have been seeing from testing, is cebas ready for status. Might be a few more weeks.

Thalaxis
11-17-2005, 12:05 AM
was there every any info as to the osx version?


Not that I've seen, and the poster who asked on the Cebas forum hasn't gotten answer yet, either.

DynamicRealism,
Are you referring to the license request? The IPClamp app claims that it has a license, so it seems like that part should be fine... and it had better be, since my one desktop box is about as far from my cable modem as it can possibly be while remaining indoors, so it's not likely that I'll ever be able to bypass the router for that part.

AdamT
11-17-2005, 12:09 AM
Well, I'm having the same problem. AFAIK it can't be my router, as the IP Clamp application is installed on the same box as my C4D/fR-2 install. Damn, this sucks.

dann_stubbs
11-17-2005, 12:11 AM
Well, I'm having the same problem. AFAIK it can't be my router, as the IP Clamp application is installed on the same box as my C4D/fR-2 install. Damn, this sucks.

doh! frying pan -> fire -> adamt

man, i was hoping for pure simple install goodness - this seems like how the first maxwell betas were with missing dll and serial issues... sigh...

at least you get to try it... there is some bright side in a way

dann

Thalaxis
11-17-2005, 12:16 AM
at least you get to try it... there is some bright side in a way


Actually, we don't get to try it. That's the annoying part.

But seriously... there are simple tools for this sort of thing -- even defense contractors can build working installers for crying out loud. This is just inexcusable.

Chrissyboy
11-17-2005, 12:18 AM
I was actually counting on this being the case - for once it's quite an attractive option to be able to pre-order, let you PC guys test the bleeding edge stuff while I get the option to cancel if it doesn't come up to snuff. So, cebas: take your time :D

In response of MACS : NO , i am not aware from what i have been seeing from testing, is cebas ready for status. Might be a few more weeks.

DynamicRealism
11-17-2005, 12:33 AM
well i guess to break the down mood. i can almost promise u that cebas will have this fixed in the morning gentlemen =) no worries
http://dbxs.dynalias.org/fr2ready.jpg

AdamT
11-17-2005, 12:38 AM
Yeah.

Since I'm in a bitching mood ... it sure would have been nice if they'd given us a .pdf manual instead of, or in addition to, that silly html manual.

DynamicRealism
11-17-2005, 12:49 AM
hey fellas when cebas finally does get this up and running, lemme know if you want to see some speed gi tricks =) heh heh, i have a couple up my sleeve ide be more than willing to show you, in some cases to get maxwell-looking renders in an exponentially-fractional amount of time

Per-Anders
11-17-2005, 12:57 AM
just so your'e aware adam, the manual is designed to be read by the windows help system which is rather better than acrobat (and certainly a lot faster), not in a browser. it's an online help, i.e. you're meant to access it via the fr interface in cinema and it will take you to the relevant area, not through the plugin folder by manually locating files.

AdamT
11-17-2005, 12:59 AM
just so your'e aware adam, the manual is designed to be read by the windows help system which is rather better than acrobat (and certainly a lot faster), not in a browser. it's an online help, i.e. you're meant to access it via the fr interface in cinema and it will take you to the relevant area, not through the plugin folder by manually locating files.
Thanks, good to know. My only problem with it is that it makes printing a bit of a PITA.

DynamicRealism
11-17-2005, 12:59 AM
right to that, its organized perfectly, should open up in its own window

Shane W
11-17-2005, 01:53 AM
Does anyone know when this IP clamp thingy is working will you be able to move the license to a laptop not connected to your network? I take my laptop home quite often and work away from my studio.

DynamicRealism
11-17-2005, 02:21 AM
the ipclamp system needs to be installed on one machine only, u cannot keep switching as it reads from different part of ur system for hardware serial codes and identification numbers for verification. Once you install it and get a lisence for any given computer, its to be staying put, we'll see what is changed here shortly. that may be on the list

Ernest Burden
11-17-2005, 02:30 AM
Once you install it and get a lisence for any given computer, its to be staying put, we'll see what is changed here shortly. that may be on the list

Better be

Important: Carefully choose the PC you want to install IP-Clamp on! You can not change this decision later. As soon as you request a license you have to stick to this PC! It is NOT possible to change the license server PC afterwards.

That's where my FR2 experience begins, reading that.

Let's just assume that will change. I do hope to be getting a new workstation specifically to help me use FR2 and Maxwell. While I will not be trashing this one, I would want to have my new PC be the PC (all 8 cores of it).

Continuumx
11-17-2005, 02:34 AM
Come on folks post some images and stats!

Ernest Burden
11-17-2005, 02:34 AM
Come on folks post some images and stats!

Not if the protection scheme doesn't work yet.

xeno3d
11-17-2005, 02:35 AM
Trust me.. I'd love to, but until this licensing issue is resolved I don;t think anyone will be doing much of anything wth fr2....

andronikos916
11-17-2005, 03:01 AM
...sorry guys - maybe I missed it. But what is the problem with FrSt2 and you can not render?

just curious...
thanx,
Andronikos

Thalaxis
11-17-2005, 03:19 AM
It's entirely non-functional. No one who actually bought it can run it, so far.

Per-Anders
11-17-2005, 03:20 AM
what is the exact problem you're having? what error are you seeing and at what point? (there's always the chance that those of us who beta'd might be able to help you if you can give a little more info).

AdamT
11-17-2005, 04:26 AM
When you enable the fR effect or attempt to render with it, you get a popup saying, "Licence [sic] for this application/version not found, please request licence [sic] Show this message again?"

License has been installed and port is open.

Per-Anders
11-17-2005, 04:31 AM
ok when you open IPClamp how do you have it set up?

is "Go" greyed out?

under licenses does it show your licence, or is that page empty?

what network adaptor is it set up for?

when you open c4d has your firewall blocked the C4D program or the ipclamp program? (it's not just the ports and host ip that are important, the localhost is usually something like 127.0.0.1 etc rather than your machines actual ip address

AdamT
11-17-2005, 04:41 AM
> ok when you open IPClamp
> how do you have it set up?

>is "Go" greyed out?

Yes.

>under licenses does it show your licence, or is that page empty?

Shows the license.

>what network adaptor is it set up for?

The correct one. :)

>when you open c4d has your firewall blocked the C4D program or the ipclamp program? (it's not just the ports and host ip that are important, the localhost is usually something like 127.0.0.1 etc rather than your machines actual ip address

Hmm, now that might be something. I recall when I installed one of the programs it had an IP like that as default, but I assumed I should change it to the host computer's IP. Can't remember if that was in the IP Clamp setup or the plugin setup.

Per-Anders
11-17-2005, 05:15 AM
ah, then in that case you will have to change that, the default settings should be used (at least that's how it works here). the ip you used when you set up the plugin has to be the same as the one listed on the ipclamp program (and should be the default one).

AdamT
11-17-2005, 05:21 AM
Nah, that's not it. I reinstalled to check and I had the right IP in there. I'm sure there's a problem with the installation program(s) or the license numbers supplied, as 4 out of 4 people who've tried it have run into the same problem, including Thalaxis who's something of a hardware guru.

Thalaxis
11-17-2005, 05:55 AM
ah, then in that case you will have to change that, the default settings should be used (at least that's how it works here). the ip you used when you set up the plugin has to be the same as the one listed on the ipclamp program (and should be the default one).

How exactly is that supposed to work?

The IP address I have in the floating license app is the correct one, verified using ipconfig. I have it configured to the correct ethernet adapter, which I also just verified with ipconfig.

That IP address the one my router provided, so it's also what I used when I installed the plugin on both that same machine, and on another machine on the network. The machine hosting IPClamp is visible from the other, and of course it's visible to itself, so connectivity and routing aren't the problem.

On the same box as IPClamp, I've tried using the loopback address (127.0.0.1), and the machine's correct IP address, with the same results. Using the loopback address on the laptop doesn't make any sense, since that is a local port.

I also fired up the firewall utility and specifically opened up IPClamp's default port on both machines.

Per-Anders
11-17-2005, 06:03 AM
the ip address in ipclamp should be the loopback address, just 127.0.0.1 the same goes for when you install the plugin itself (after you've installed ipclamp and restarted), that should just be set to 127.0.0.1 (the same settings in ipclamp, cos that's the actual address being used, i.e. localhost).

it should just be a case of install, next next next etc, no need to actually change anythng in the window on install unless you're running accross a network and have ipclamp on the server rather than on the local machine.

you should make sure your firewall isn't blocking either cinema4d or ipclamp as well as the ports in question (maybe switch off the firewall for a while to see if it's all working).

Ernest Burden
11-17-2005, 06:39 AM
I really hope this clamp port stuff gets translated to normal user level. While quite able to handle most hard/soft PC problems, I never learned much about networking protocols.

Is there going to be a problem (like NetRender) with a router on a cable modem that gets a dynamic IP address? Behind the router is also dynamic, though with 'leasing' I can keep the machines on the same IPs, usually.

Just remember folks, this is to protect someone else from a problem we are not creating, by being paying customers.

So please, IPclamp for the mentally challenged

nycL45
11-17-2005, 11:47 AM
This is what Edwin posted at Cebas fR2 for Cinema4D:

OK,

the missing DLL is indeed an error ikn the main installler!

The fRStation install has the DLL included so you may just copy this dll over to the CINEMA4D folder. Thne it should run juts fine.

About the IP-Clamp errors you are having. Did you check out the training video about IP-Clamp?

I assume most of you are on a single workstation install, what you need to do is install IP-Clamp with default values. Go to the Request Tab and type in the data you have recieved (2 serial numbers). Then use the onlien update button to get your licenses. You shoudl see in a few seconds a Success message. If this does not work for you for any reason, use the manual request method. Press the request button and send the request file as a zipped attachment to register@cebas.com. We will then send you a license file.
Then run the fR installer also with defaults. Localhost or 127.0.0.1 is ok as IP address for a license server if it is on one PC only.

BTW.
I have fixed the installer if you wish you can also download it again and you get everything in one go. In this case you only need to install the main product again.


regards
edwin

Thalaxis
11-17-2005, 12:07 PM
the ip address in ipclamp should be the loopback address, just 127.0.0.1 the same goes for when you install the plugin itself (after you've installed ipclamp and restarted), that should just be set to 127.0.0.1 (the same settings in ipclamp, cos that's the actual address being used, i.e. localhost).


Even for running rR on a separate machine? I stuck IPClamp on a desktop, in the hopes of being able to use the renderer on my laptop, since they have that "you can't ever change machines" bit in the manual.


it should just be a case of install, next next next etc, no need to actually change anythng in the window on install unless you're running accross a network and have ipclamp on the server rather than on the local machine.


If I'm running fR on a laptop with IPClamp on a desktop, that doesn't make any sense, since fR would then be querying itself for the license rather than the license server.


you should make sure your firewall isn't blocking either cinema4d or ipclamp as well as the ports in question (maybe switch off the firewall for a while to see if it's all working).

Done.

Thalaxis
11-17-2005, 12:14 PM
I really hope this clamp port stuff gets translated to normal user level. While quite able to handle most hard/soft PC problems, I never learned much about networking protocols.


If you're running XP, I can help with this, within limits... I'm an engineer, not a sysadmin :)

But feel free to ask and PM me if I don't reply in case you need some help and can't find anyone local.


Is there going to be a problem (like NetRender) with a router on a cable modem that gets a dynamic IP address? Behind the router is also dynamic, though with 'leasing' I can keep the machines on the same IPs, usually.


In theory, you should just have to lock down the IP address of the server. If you're using a router that's plugged into the cable net, then it shouldn't be a problem, since your router provides IP addresses independently of what the cable modem gets from the cable network.

Most routers have an option for "sticky" IP addresses, so that it will try to provide the same IP address for each MAC on its network, which works fine as long as you don't swap your ethernet cards around a lot :) Most routers will also allow you to bind an IP address to a MAC, so that the specified ethernet card will always have the same IP address.


Just remember folks, this is to protect someone else from a problem we are not creating, by being paying customers.

So please, IPclamp for the mentally challenged

Smarter would have been to follow the example of, just to pick an example, Nature Spirit.

Nature Spirit's always worked without any trouble...

AdamT
11-17-2005, 12:59 PM
Just to be clear, there are two serial numbers: a "Cinema 4D Translator Serial Number" and a "finalRender Stage-2 Serial Number". What *exactly* do we do with each one?

Unlike most I was able to view the IP Clamp tutorial video. Only one serial number was entered in the video and it does not specify which number was used.

I am installing a floating license, btw. It's just that the license server is also my main C4D machine (i.e., I don't have a separate file server).

AdamT
11-17-2005, 01:09 PM
Okay, to answer my own question:

If you have already installed IP Clamp with only one of the license numbers, you have to now configure it for *both* licenses. Just start the application and fill out all the fields if they aren't already filled in. Then add the license you didn't add before (either the fR license or the C4D translator license) and use the online update button again. That solved my problem.

It's nice that Cebas went to the trouble of making a video tutorial on this installation process, but it's ridiculous that this crucial step was glossed over. The vid mentions that you should enter all of your license numbers, but I and apparently everyone else assumed that this was referring to possible multiple fR licenses and not the fR license *plus* the C4D translator license (whatever the hell that is). The video shows only one license being entered so the natural assumption is that this is all that's required for a single seat.

Anyway, I've got it running now so it's all good. Haven't tried it across the network yet....

Chrissyboy
11-17-2005, 01:19 PM
... since they have that "you can't ever change machines" bit in the manual.

Is this right? So once you decide which machine is going to have IPClamp installed, that is it, no upgrading, no second chances...? seems a bit unreasonable?

AdamT
11-17-2005, 01:25 PM
Is this right? So once you decide which machine is going to have IPClamp installed, that is it, no upgrading, no second chances...? seems a bit unreasonable?
They mention that you can change this if for some reason your license server machine dies or gets retired. Otherwise they do emphasize that it cannot be moved.

I wish they had just used the usual Cinema protection scheme, which is a lot more flexible and obviously much easier to configure.

Ernest Burden
11-17-2005, 01:31 PM
They mention that you can change this if for some reason your license server machine dies or gets retired.

It doesn't say 'retired' on the video, just "if your motherboard is burning".

It does say the licence is locked to the network card, and that you can move the card. But aren't most network controllers now a MB chip? Can't move that to a new PC.

AdamT
11-17-2005, 01:40 PM
They were obviously trying to impress that you need to select a permanent home for the servier, but I'm they'll be reasonable about it.

Anyway--on to the good news. Here's my first GI render with AA, eight bounces, fR sky + sun and one distant light (accident):

http://www.3danvil.com/fR-2/fR-2_001.jpg

Nothing great to be sure, but the kicker is ... render time of 1 minute 12 seconds on my AMD X2 @ 2.6Ghz.

Thalaxis
11-17-2005, 01:46 PM
That is good news... with any luck I'll be able to get it working tonight and start tinkering with shaders. That's what I've been looking forward to the most about fR, to be honest :)

I think this IPClamp business was a complete waste of time. The only thing it ended up accomplishing for Cebas was to generate negative PR.

philhoole
11-17-2005, 01:57 PM
I think this IPClamp business was a complete waste of time. The only thing it ended up accomplishing for Cebas was to generate negative PR.

I agree 100%. No doubt a fully cracked version will be out on the p2p networks before too long. So what does it achieve apart from winding up paying customers ?

I just got my email from Cebas but I'm at my day job at the moment ! Can't wait to get home and get it downloaded and installed.

AdamT
11-17-2005, 02:01 PM
Here's the same scene done with brute force bounces in place of light maps:

http://www.3danvil.com/fR-2/fR-2_002.jpg


Render time was 11:09. It would have been faster/better if I'd used light portals and less bounces, plus I just used default GI quality settings. Obviously I have a lot to learn. :)

Thalaxis
11-17-2005, 02:03 PM
Render time was 11:09. It would have been faster/better if I'd used light portals and less bounces, plus I just used default GI quality settings. Obviously I have a lot to learn. :)

That's what makes it fun :D

I can't wait to dive into the shader system.... <bleeping> day job...

Ernest Burden
11-17-2005, 02:03 PM
If you're running XP, I can help with this, within limits... I'm an engineer, not a sysadmin :)

In theory, you should just have to lock down the IP address of the server. If you're using a router that's plugged into the cable net, then it shouldn't be a problem

My router is a fairly new LinkSys. I looked at the setup pages for it, but don't see how to lock down the sub IPs. They are leased, and I rarely turn off the workstation, so it keeps it's IP and I force NetRender to live with dynamic IPs.

But before I can even get started, I run into a confusion:

When doing the NutClamp install it lists two net controllers on my machine, a 3Com and an nVidia nForce MCP adapter. Both show up in 'device manager'. Which one to pick? Having no second-chance is stressful.

AdamT
11-17-2005, 02:13 PM
Ernest,
Go into control panel>networking and check the properties on your network connection>ftp protocol. It should tell you which adapter you're using.

JamesMK
11-17-2005, 02:15 PM
Render time was 11:09. It would have been faster/better if I'd used light portals and less bounces, plus I just used default GI quality settings. Obviously I have a lot to learn. :)
The sheer amount of control in terms of setting to finetune the GI solution is probably pretty scary the first times you're exposed to it.

Tip: When you enable antialiasing, it defaults to a pretty soft Gaussian setting. I usually change it to Catmul-Rom 1.0 x 1.0 to get the crisp look you'd want in a still.





.

Thalaxis
11-17-2005, 02:18 PM
My router is a fairly new LinkSys. I looked at the setup pages for it, but don't see how to lock down the sub IPs. They are leased, and I rarely turn off the workstation, so it keeps it's IP and I force NetRender to live with dynamic IPs.


Hostnames supposedly work also, in which case the IP address shouldn't matter -- but then, this is IPClamp, not real software, so I have no idea what will happen.

However, with leased IPs, they're usually sticky, so you won't run into problems with computers on your net getting new IPs everytime you reboot them until you run out of address space, which is typically limited to 255 machines :)


When doing the NutClamp install it lists two net controllers on my machine, a 3Com and an nVidia nForce MCP adapter. Both show up in 'device manager'. Which one to pick? Having no second-chance is stressful.

Look at the network settings. If you're using XP sp2, there's an icon for it in your system tray (it has tooltips) that you can click on. It looks a bit different for wireless networks, so it's been a while since I looked at the wired network settings, which means that I probably won't get the details right until I get home and look at it.

You can also get there via the control panel's network settings button.

It will show you a list of network interfaces, and with each interface an indication of which network it's connected to. You might have to click on "properties" to find out the details, but that overview page should give you the information you're looking for.

Alternatively, if your 3Com network adapter is an add-in card rather than a motherboard built-in, you can just look at the back of the machine to find out. :)

I hope that helps!

Ernest Burden
11-17-2005, 02:18 PM
Go into control panel..It should tell you which adapter you're using.

They both are listed as being network connections, but one has a little red x on it. So its the 3Com

I hope

holle
11-17-2005, 02:25 PM
Hi Adam!

Look in the "scenes/cebas/userfiles/holgerschoemann" folder, there you
will find a quick setup for an indoorlighting. It´s called "lightportal06.c4d"

Here the sample pic, also look at the rendertimes :)
http://www.schoemann-unna.de/preview/fr_pub/lightportal06_overview.jpg

AdamT
11-17-2005, 02:31 PM
They both are listed as being network connections, but one has a little red x on it. So its the 3Com

I hope

Yep, that's right.

flingster
11-17-2005, 03:07 PM
thought it was going to be a quick install but given all the ipclamp comments looks like something you need decide on before you install what your future setup is going to be...kinda annoying. is this thing authenticating over the internet to a license server then at cebas side? which would mean it can't be run on a private network without internet connectivity? Also given a lot of networks will use DHCP that alocates the ip address to the machine..eg adsl users where does that leave you if the next time you log on you get a different ip address and this clamp system can't authenicate you since your ip address changed...seem i need to go off and look at this video...still haven't received my download link from cebas either yet which seems a bit strange...?

AdamT
11-17-2005, 03:13 PM
thought it was going to be a quick install but given all the ipclamp comments looks like something you need decide on before you install what your future setup is going to be...kinda annoying. is this thing authenticating over the internet to a license server then at cebas side? which would mean it can't be run on a private network without internet connectivity? Also given a lot of networks will use DHCP that alocates the ip address to the machine..eg adsl users where does that leave you if the next time you log on you get a different ip address and this clamp system can't authenicate you since your ip address changed...seem i need to go off and look at this video...still haven't received my download link from cebas either yet which seems a bit strange...?
No, it doesn't need to connect to Cebas. It's possible to set it up for remote access, but that's optional.

Thalaxis
11-17-2005, 03:20 PM
To get around requiring an internet connection the IPClamp app will at your request generate a request file that you can e-mail to Cebas, and then import the license file that they send back.

flingster
11-17-2005, 03:25 PM
maybe that is a better alternative...i hate all this locked to hardware mallarky...all you need a part failure and i guess you've got problems...i need to look into it i think...make sure i make the right choices from start off otherwise you're generally shafted once you've gone one route...cheers for the tips though guys.

AdamT
11-17-2005, 03:39 PM
Latest drama: I can't seem to get bucket rendering to work over the network. Anyone had any luck with this?

DynamicRealism
11-17-2005, 04:34 PM
make sure your frstation reverts back to ur server ip

AdamT
11-17-2005, 04:45 PM
make sure your frstation reverts back to ur server ip
How would I go about that? frstation doesn't seem to have any gui.

Thalaxis
11-17-2005, 05:05 PM
As far as I can tell, the only way is to uninstall and re-install it. That's the only way that I've found to convince it to ask you for that IP address.

AdamT
11-17-2005, 05:13 PM
Tried that, but it still doesn't ask for any IP address.

Thalaxis
11-17-2005, 05:15 PM
In that case, I have no idea. :(
It worked for the plugin, but I didn't do much mucking about with the renderstation.

DynamicRealism
11-17-2005, 05:22 PM
frStation does infact ask for your server system ip when u uninstal and reinstall... just redid it twice. After that, install it as a service and restart...open up control panel and makes sure it is running as a service. Open up the DR attributes tab and throw in the ip, see if you got any luck with that. has been working flawlessly here

MasterOfLight
11-17-2005, 05:43 PM
the fRstation uses port 6000 (per default), so check if that port is unblocked.
it doesn't need a connection to the IPClamp server.

michael

AdamT
11-17-2005, 05:47 PM
frStation does infact ask for your server system ip when u uninstal and reinstall...
Maybe yours did, but I assure you that mine did not.

Anyway, I got it working by unloading the service and running it in a dos window. When I did that Windows asked me if I wanted to unblock the service. Presto.

Now my problem is that bucket GI renders are completely off when rendered across my mixed AMD/Xeon/P4 network. I hope that's something I'm doing wrong and not a fR limitation.

[EDIT: it seems my GI problem is restricted to one older scene, so hopefully it's just an anomaly.]

philhoole
11-17-2005, 05:50 PM
Right, I'm just about to go through the install. I must admit being very "uncomfortable" with this whole ipclamp system.

I'm a little bit annoyed to be frank because I had concerns about installation and activation and the fact that the ipclamp.wmv only appeared today makes me feel a little suspicious. I don't have a "robust" file server to put license server on. Well, I've got no choice but to go along with it I guess. I'll probably calm down once I've got it up and running :hmm:

Locking ipclamp to my onboard NIC is not good. I've never gone through such nonsense to install software before.

AdamT
11-17-2005, 06:14 PM
Note to all: you have to unblock port 6000 in your firewall(s) to get distributed rendering to work.

Thalaxis
11-17-2005, 06:23 PM
I'm a little bit annoyed to be frank because I had concerns about installation and activation and the fact that the ipclamp.wmv only appeared today makes me feel a little suspicious. I don't have a "robust" file server to put license server on. Well, I've got no choice but to go along with it I guess. I'll probably calm down once I've got it up and running :hmm:


As long as it's not going to disappear anytime soon, it should be "robust" enough for IPCramp.


Locking ipclamp to my onboard NIC is not good. I've never gone through such nonsense to install software before.

Sadly, locking the license to a MAC address isn't anything new, but IPCramp is a particularly onerous and clumsy implementation.

Edwin Braun
11-17-2005, 07:12 PM
Hey, IP-Clamp is not that bad as you see it right now.

We use this for a long time now and many users are happy with it. Yes, there are also unhappy ones but in total the users who are happy with it are much more.

The great thing is : If you get it running it is absolutely invisible and runns for years without any problem at all. Just make sure you use a fileserver or printserver as a License server.

Also we had never a case where a network card was killed in the last 5 years.
If nothing works and all the world is against you you still have the option to call us or write us an email.

edwin

Edwin Braun
11-17-2005, 07:20 PM
One more ting to add....i just read this long thread :D

YOU DO NOT NEED FIXED IP-ADDRESSES for IPCLAMP you can use the networ knames of your PC's. This is usually the case when you have a DHCP with changing IP's.

edwin

philhoole
11-17-2005, 07:26 PM
Hi Edwin,

You might be refering to me with the criticism of ipclamp! I'm honestly sorry if I seemed a bit strong. I think I just have a dislike of protection schemes because they only seem to get cracked within a couple of weeks anyway.

I'm sure Cebas behave sensibly anyway if my motherboard "burns" and I need a new license.
I now have FR2 installed and even got distributed rendering working :bounce:. Rendering is so quick and lots of new toys to play with !!!

Phil

Thalaxis
11-17-2005, 07:34 PM
You might be refering to me with the criticism of ipclamp! I'm honestly sorry if I seemed a bit strong. I think I just have a dislike of protection schemes because they only seem to get cracked within a couple of weeks anyway.



Nah, pretty much everyone who tried it yesterday was pretty irate about the trouble they'd had with IPCramp.

duderender
11-17-2005, 07:42 PM
Hi Edwin,

You might be refering to me with the criticism of ipclamp! I'm honestly sorry if I seemed a bit strong. I think I just have a dislike of protection schemes because they only seem to get cracked within a couple of weeks anyway.

I'm sure Cebas behave sensibly anyway if my motherboard "burns" and I need a new license.
I now have FR2 installed and even got distributed rendering working :bounce:. Rendering is so quick and lots of new toys to play with !!!

Phil

I've never liked Ip licensing schemes, FlexLM is a good example. The other thing that is irritating is that people are having issues getting it working from the start. That is never a good sign.

Perhaps it is fortunate I still haven't received my license.

@Edwin, it would be helpful if you could post a notice when all pre-orders have been fulfilled so those waiting for licenses do not send emails asking where their license is.

Thalaxis
11-17-2005, 07:50 PM
I've never liked Ip licensing schemes, FlexLM is a good example. The other thing that is irritating is that people are having issues getting it working from the start. That is never a good sign.


FlexLM was actually easier to get working though. IPCramp is actually a step backward in user annoyance, particularly since those of us who are not studios and would like to be able to take fR on the road... well, can't.

Well, some of us can -- those of us who happen to be fortunate enough to be using USB ethernet adatpers on their license servers, but my case is an oddball; it's because I'm using wireless networking for that machine, while most people use wired networking on the recommended file server, not wireless... and use integrated wireless network adapters on their laptops.

So Cebas should start sending all of its fR for Cinema customers USB ethernet adapters to use as dongles. :D

Edwin Braun
11-17-2005, 07:50 PM
I've never liked Ip licensing schemes, FlexLM is a good example. The other thing that is irritating is that people are having issues getting it working from the start. That is never a good sign.

Perhaps it is fortunate I still haven't received my license.

@Edwin, it would be helpful if you could post a notice when all pre-orders have been fulfilled so those waiting for licenses do not send emails asking where their license is.

We are working hard to get everything done ASAP. Please be patient, we should not miss anyone as we are working through our order database.

Give us some time, also try to relax :D we managed to get everyone working yet :D

edwin

AdamT
11-17-2005, 07:51 PM
The other thing that is irritating is that people are having issues getting it working from the start. That is never a good sign.
It's just a question of unclear instructions. It would have gone without a hitch with a couple minor changes to the video and docs. I'll put together a better explanation when I have a chance.

Ernest Burden
11-17-2005, 07:54 PM
Maybe we should start a new thread, maybe several, for FR2 issues.

I didn't see this page when going through the .htm manuals, found it in the root html folder though. If you haven't already, read:
whskin_homepage.htm

It details what will and will not work from C4D to FR2. It lists which shaders aren't supported, like Proximal, for example. It says it won't see (though it sems to shadow from) background object--this seems to include a SKY object.

Note: no support for
texture>layer
Lights>falloff .......for real? No falloff? Its the 'physical' thing, right?

lots more

this is most important in this transition stage, where we all want to feed an existing scene to FR2 and see how much faster it is without re-programming the whole scene.

lllab
11-17-2005, 08:19 PM
layer is supported in 9.5+

cheers
stefan

Ernest Burden
11-17-2005, 08:30 PM
layer is supported in 9.5+

Oh, you're right. I was just grabbing some examples from the list, but chose poorly. It's still worth the time to read.

lllab
11-17-2005, 08:36 PM
yes well the layer shader the most important for me.

light falloff is supported through fr light tagi guess.
form me on the first sight nothing i use often is not supported.

guess i will i use fr from now on, maybe maxwell soon too...

cheers
stefan

duderender
11-17-2005, 08:45 PM
It's just a question of unclear instructions. It would have gone without a hitch with a couple minor changes to the video and docs. I'll put together a better explanation when I have a chance.

Thanks, I missed the working link to the video. Was it emailed again?

Per-Anders
11-17-2005, 08:46 PM
light falloff is supported just fine (you don't need fr light tags on your lights for it to see most of what c4d's doing, just as you don't need the object tag for most things, and you can use normal materials in many cases too), area light falloff isn't though they use physical falloff. and sky objects work with fr too.

very little isn't supported when it comes down to it, you'd really do better to go through it's own manuals and sit down with it yoruself to find out what does and doesn't work with it. though i do agree it would be good to have a seperate thread on knowing what works and how, and how to do x in fr for the equivalent in c4d (even though the manual does cover most of this). also maybe a tips and tricks thread, e.g. for instance the first thing most of you will want to do is switch teh default aa mode of gausian to catmull rom as this is a sharpened aa and gives the very nice results that most people are after these days in their arch viz shots.

duderender
11-17-2005, 08:53 PM
So Cebas should start sending all of its fR for Cinema customers USB ethernet adapters to use as dongles. :D

Out of any locking, the usb dongle was my preferred method. Like you, I'm a mobile user so now it sounds like my laptop will have to be the server.

We are working hard to get everything done ASAP. Please be patient, we should not miss anyone as we are working through our order database.

I am patient Edwin, I was merely suggesting something to save you some headache. I'm sure my credit card doesn't mind waiting.. LOL

lllab
11-17-2005, 09:07 PM
i cannot get any shader tree example to do right- i follow exact the tutorial glass sphere, but the material stays white.

i have a raytrace and a blinn node wired to the color output, as described, but the output isnt updated and is not rendering. in the blinn node i see a nice preview of the glasshader i did.

i am under 9.5german.
what can i do wrong here?

thanks for help
stefan

Per-Anders
11-17-2005, 09:08 PM
did you connect the final color output to the color input on the right hand side of the shader tree (it's on the edge the xpresso window itself)?

DynamicRealism
11-17-2005, 09:12 PM
did you connect the final color output to the color input on the right hand side of the shader tree (it's on the edge the xpresso window itself)?

as mdme_sadie pointed out, it is mandatory that you attach the last node in your chain from it output to the input function of the shadertree...otherwise it will not update

lllab
11-17-2005, 09:17 PM
yes i did connect, i found the problem.


i have the german version and my output channel is named "farbe" not color, when i rename it to color it works!

it seems fr is dependend to english type of names in output.
not really a problem, but i have to rename each output by hand to color. hmm maybe this can be updated in an update. not a big problem though.

cheers
stefan

Ernest Burden
11-17-2005, 09:22 PM
light falloff is supported just fine

The matrix says "Light parameters--falloff > properties listed to the left are not translated

That's wrong, or I'm reading it wrong?

and sky objects work with fr too.

Oh, well it didn't in the file I was trying it in.

I'll keep at it.

nycL45
11-17-2005, 09:23 PM
It's just a question of unclear instructions. It would have gone without a hitch with a couple minor changes to the video and docs. I'll put together a better explanation when I have a chance.

Hey AdamT, in your "better explanation", please include the IP_Clamp alternatives that Edwin has been so kind to allude to and that I, a tech challenged user, find confusing as hell. I refer to Edwin's post from the parallel thread: "Another easy way would be a USB network card then you can transfer it physically."

I've been reading both threads and am feeling sheared by opposing emotions of excitement and rampant fear swinging from fR2 potential :applause: to IP_Clamp disaster. :cry: If I make the wrong choice, THWACK! Egads, it's the Sword of Damocles!

Ernest Burden
11-17-2005, 09:32 PM
and sky objects work with fr too.

I give up--how?

Create a few objects, add a SKY, turn on FR2 with GI and render--results in all black image

Where am I making a mistake?

lllab
11-17-2005, 09:33 PM
man, i took me literally one minute to install the clamp stuff, its really easy. the only hard thing was that the was no licensenumber first and i search forit one hour;-) but that was solved soon after a call.

i think cebas might think about the thing for one-man- one license people with a laptop at home. but he is offering a very kind solution.
if you have a problem, just call cebas- they seem to be very nice, and have nice support.

really dont see a problem here. of course maxons system is the easiest around, but i undertsand cabas needs asystem that works also for maya and 3dmax.

cheers
stefan

i dont know who already tried the node shader system--its amazing! the displacent-so fast a clean- i love it:-)

Per-Anders
11-17-2005, 09:36 PM
The matrix says "Light parameters--falloff > properties listed to the left are not translated

That's wrong, or I'm reading it wrong?



Oh, well it didn't in the file I was trying it in.

I'll keep at it.

what matrix? just try it out for yourself, you don't need to use light tags on lights. so just make a new omni/spot etc (but not area as fr doesn't support the falloffs for area lights), change the falloff in the details tab, compare it to cinema's render, for me they're identical.

as for the sky, it's working just fine here, so i'm not sure why your scene wouldn't. if it isn't then just simplify the scene till you find out why. maybe even build ti up, first jus the sky on it's own if that doesn't render then there's maybe a more serious problem. then go from there. to texture the sky i'm just using the c4d materials system rather than an fr material as i find it a lot faster for simpler materials.

Per-Anders
11-17-2005, 09:37 PM
i'll make a quick scene with sky and post it and what the result shoudl look like if you want.

Per-Anders
11-17-2005, 09:44 PM
ok here's a very basic test scene with a c4d sky with a gradient on it rendered in fr:

http://www.peranders.com/general/frandsky.c4d

http://www.peranders.com/general/frandsky.jpg

AdamT
11-17-2005, 10:12 PM
I wonder if Ernest is talking about the sky shader? That isn't supported AFAIK.

The sky object works fine for me.

Ernest Burden
11-17-2005, 10:13 PM
what matrix?

as for the sky, it's working just fine here, so i'm not sure why your scene wouldn't.

the "things that do not get translated by FR2" matrix

OK, your file works, and rather nicely. Damn, that's fast! I was talking about the 9.5 SKY plug-in system. I'm having trouble getting that to work. Maybe it's not worth the trouble.

Per-Anders
11-17-2005, 10:23 PM
aha, then yes sorry my mistake (and confusion), no the 9.5 sky shader doesn't work, however what you could do is bake the sky form 9.5 into a texture and use it like that in fr.

AdamT
11-17-2005, 10:24 PM
As above, the 9.5 sky plugin won't work.

Per-Anders
11-17-2005, 10:32 PM
right, but what i'm saying is if you bake it in cinema 4d using ar, and then apply it to a sky or a sphere and use that in fr you'll get your sky into fr.

lllab
11-17-2005, 10:39 PM
how can i save a gi solution by name, to reuse it late?

i always thought this was possible in FR, at least in stage1?
like in vray- you can save there multiple solutions to named files and load them for reuse?

is that possible in fr2?

GI overall i very nice and also very simpel to use overall:-)

cheers
stefan

Per-Anders
11-17-2005, 10:50 PM
it's in the very final box of the fR GI page, there you can choose how/where to save your gi solution. but you avhe to choose camera fly or object animation for it to come up(otherwise you can use "resuse").

lllab
11-17-2005, 10:59 PM
great!
thanks,
stefan

DynamicRealism
11-17-2005, 11:00 PM
as mdme pointed out, its mandatory that u keep it on an animation mode, or the option its self will entirely dissapear, this cannot be done with quasi monte carlo of course ;)

lllab
11-17-2005, 11:11 PM
wow,

i am just rendering DR over 6 pcs as a test in my office, having me and my laptop at home. the connections is via internet(openvpn).

this is cool. my xeons and amds work like a charm together with only my notebook physical at the same place i am. this is how i always dreamed! dr really works cool. just typed in the ip's say render and thats it!

excellent cebas-thank you!

cheers
stefan

DynamicRealism
11-17-2005, 11:37 PM
= ) glad ya like it

philhoole
11-17-2005, 11:57 PM
On the whole I must say I'm pretty impressed by most of what I've seen and there's a lot to discover I think.

Anyway, nobody seems to have mentioned crashes yet. I get a lot. It's mostly with distributed rendering and can result in Cinema shutting down completely or the external render clients quiting during rendering. I have to manually restart them. I can't consistently reproduce a crash but it's happening enough to be annoying. I've even had the PC lock up and needed resetting which it never normally does (rock solid usually).

I'm running Cinema 9.1 with 2 other PCs. All on XP Pro.

DynamicRealism
11-18-2005, 12:06 AM
wha twould most likely cause it to crash is that if you by chance quit it in the middle of rendering, the other 5 machines will still be rendering till they finish that bucket...say u start the render again while the other 5 are still going...ur screwed

philhoole
11-18-2005, 12:27 AM
I think I've certianly had that situation before but I'm getting others too. I get crashes when all nodes etc are totally idle and the render will just hang for whatever reason.

It's 1.30am here in the Uk so I should really go to bed ! I'll try and find a reproduceable crash that happens everytime tomorrow or over the weekend.

Ernest Burden
11-18-2005, 12:53 AM
I've had a few crashes of Cinema, never the OS.


This is becoming more blog than thread. Fun!

I've been testing lights, since I want to use FR2 to render an interior I'm supposed to be handing in very soon. (My client doesn't like 'soon' any more than I do). The brightness varies widely if you go from omni to spot to infinite to area. But if you change either the light or the global in FR2 it produces beautiful results.

Really beautiful results.

I haven't tried to get other machines to join in, just using my main one for the moment.

michaeli
11-18-2005, 12:56 AM
Does FR2 work with the C4D build-in post effects such as colormapping?

Per-Anders
11-18-2005, 01:05 AM
only if they apply before or after the rendering pass and don't use renderdata (e.g. the sharpen filter will do it's job), otherwise you use final renders own post effects system (which currently only has a couple of post efffects in there, but i'm sure more will come in due course).

Ernest Burden
11-18-2005, 01:44 AM
Does FR2 work with the C4D build-in post effects such as colormapping?

The same colormapping control is built into the 'general' tab, first sub-category.

FR2 area light are wonderfully smooth. But you almost don't even have to bother with them, using the regular C4D luminous channel produced great results, too.

xeno3d
11-18-2005, 02:20 AM
Can anyone get dispersion to work? as listed in the features...

Dispersion

The ability to refract light based on the material’s structure offers finalRender Stage-2 users creative control over light in objects

Per-Anders
11-18-2005, 02:51 AM
hmm, i'm really not sure what they mean by that. you can make materials that are blurry reflective and refraction, that have color based on their thickness, you can even make materials that have chromatic abberation, but i'm really not sure what they mean by dispersion.

Thalaxis
11-18-2005, 03:18 AM
hmm, i'm really not sure what they mean by that. you can make materials that are blurry reflective and refraction, that have color based on their thickness, you can even make materials that have chromatic abberation, but i'm really not sure what they mean by dispersion.

Generally, dispersion is what you get when you shine white light through a prism. I wonder whether that's what they're referring to? Hm... must experiment, now that it's working... adding the second serial number did the trick (I wonder why doing that gave me an error last night? but it's ok now).

fR is FAST. It really makes Mental Ray 3.3 seem like quite a clunker.

xeno3d
11-18-2005, 03:18 AM
chromatic abberation I guess is what I am after. I didn;t see any mention in the docs so I wasnt sure how it was done.

Per-Anders
11-18-2005, 03:47 AM
to make chromatic abberation you make three glass/refractive textures, one red, one green, one blue (pure colors), you set the iors to be slightly different with the green one in the middle, then you add them together using mix nodes and output the result.

andronikos916
11-18-2005, 06:40 AM
to make chromatic abberation you make three glass/refractive textures, one red, one green, one blue (pure colors), you set the iors to be slightly different with the green one in the middle, then you add them together using mix nodes and output the result.

...thanx for the tip. Intresting how this can be achieved. ..not 100% real but if it works...:-)

lllab
11-18-2005, 08:40 AM
no crashes here, beside it doesnt like an "old" c4d material with lumas inside. then i also get a crash.

with the rest until now rock solid as c4d itself, also with DR.

cheers
stefan

Ernest Burden
11-18-2005, 12:04 PM
I'm getting quite a lot of noise on some renders, looks to be from lighting. Obviously I am new to the GI settings, any advice from the betas?
.
.
http://www.oreally.com/temp/noiseLTs.jpg

holle
11-18-2005, 12:08 PM
Never seen this in such strange ..........
But I think you have to raise the samples of the arealights.
If they don´t create exact shodows you can try to activate the
"store in ambient tree" option, this will calculate the shadows together
with the gi. So it´s a lot faster.

holle
11-18-2005, 12:11 PM
If you use the lightmap for the second bouce maybe your radius
is to high or you walls are only onesided and the light comes thru the
walls.

AdamT
11-18-2005, 12:49 PM
So far it's been stable for me. I was having a problem before I got the distributed rendering sorted, where Cinema would appear to shut down normally but it was still residing in memory.

JamesMK
11-18-2005, 01:00 PM
Ernest, that looks a lot like the artifacts one would get when there are duplicate polygons, i.e. two or more polys with the exact same position.




.

Ernest Burden
11-18-2005, 01:12 PM
Ernest, that looks a lot like the artifacts one would get when there are duplicate polygons, i.e. two or more polys with the exact same position.

That is not the problem. I had excluded the glass from being seen by GI in a FR tag, by the way. Another point--those ceiling lights are not area lights, they are a luminous white material. However, I have seen noise in other renders, in files just for testing (so only a few objects) on a 'sky' object. In that case it was black noise, this is white.

Thanks for the tips on things to try. As I said, I don't know the program yet, so problems are to be expected.

Ernest Burden
11-18-2005, 01:46 PM
you can try to activate the
"store in ambient tree" option, this will calculate the shadows together
with the gi. So it´s a lot faster.

I know I've seen that checkbox, and wondered what it was...but now I simply cannot find it! I think I've looked everywhere, but where is it?

holle
11-18-2005, 01:49 PM
Hi Ernest,

it is in the fr light-tag.

Thalaxis
11-18-2005, 01:59 PM
So far it's been stable for me. I was having a problem before I got the distributed rendering sorted, where Cinema would appear to shut down normally but it was still residing in memory.

I did find one way to crash it repeatably: overdo the displacement :)

Unfortunately that turned out to be pretty easy to do, because on a laptop with only 1 GB installed, running out of memory doesn't take much effort :)

Edwin Braun
11-18-2005, 02:35 PM
Yes, be careful with displacement....it is way to easy to create several billion of triangles. We are doing a memory conservateion as good as possible. Right now the displacement is built to take advantage of the future 64-bit systems with more memory.

We are working right now on another method that will even allow you to overdo displacemnt on 32-bit systems. For now jut be reasonable with the settings.


edwin

Thalaxis
11-18-2005, 02:37 PM
We are working right now on another method that will even allow you to overdo displacemnt on 32-bit systems. For now jut be reasonable with the settings.


I think the default displacement level should be on the low side rather than the high side... that was what tripped me up -- I didn't expect it to be set to its max, so I didn't look for the settings to tweak them until after I ran out of memory and crashed Cinema and fR, and apparently also the fR station on my other box.

Ernest Burden
11-18-2005, 03:07 PM
Note to all: you have to unblock port 6000 in your firewall(s) to get distributed rendering to work.

I have been unable to figure out how to do this. Any hints on where to go to addresss port 6000?

lllab
11-18-2005, 03:15 PM
i have DR working with no problems, but have not unblocked port6000?

what do you mean, or have you a firewall intern in your network?

cheers
stefan

Thalaxis
11-18-2005, 03:17 PM
I have been unable to figure out how to do this. Any hints on where to go to addresss port 6000?

The XP security center has a link to the firewall settings. Just add an exception for port 6000 and give it a name... or when you fire it up, the MS personal firewall should ask you whether or not to unblock it.

Ernest Burden
11-18-2005, 03:18 PM
i have DR working with no problems, but have not unblocked port6000?

AdamT mentioned needing to unblock port 6000. But that's over my head. I checked the router, but theres nothing that makes sense to me among all the DCHP, MAC, etc.

My DR tab does not see the two other PCs with FRustration running.

Thalaxis
11-18-2005, 03:21 PM
Did you add their names or IP addresses?

Did you get a prompt asking you whether or not to unblock fRStation when you launched fRStation?

For that matter, after installing fRstation, did you launch it? It doesn't start automatically when you install it, so you'll have to go to programs->cebas->fRstation and launch the console version.

belushy
11-18-2005, 03:21 PM
Somehow the infos how to use fr2 are quite less
where are the Tutarial files can't find them not even on their site.
the nodes seem not to fit in the german version what nodes (output like color and displacement are there?
and how they are spelled seems to mather Only "Color" works not "color" as in the Html file
one more the camera modes are not visible in the editor window strange for me to control

but no crashes and no other bugs so far
I´m quite happy with the DR works great as long as you don't turn one slave off during rendering (-;
good Job

belushy

Thalaxis
11-18-2005, 03:32 PM
Somehow the infos how to use fr2 are quite less
where are the Tutarial files can't find them not even on their site.
the nodes seem not to fit in the german version what nodes (output like color and displacement are there?
and how they are spelled seems to mather Only "Color" works not "color" as in the Html file
one more the camera modes are not visible in the editor window strange for me to control



I can help with one of them, maybe:

2: Select file->open and look in the default directory (under the Cinema directory). Go to cebas->Tutorials.

dann_stubbs
11-18-2005, 03:33 PM
but no crashes and no other bugs so far
I´m quite happy with the DR works great as long as you don't turn one slave off during rendering


so what happens when a render client goes down? (more computers = more possibility)

do buckets get reallocated automatically? would i just restart the FR manager and it goes on? does this mess up all other frstations?

edwin, any official info on that?

dann

Ernest Burden
11-18-2005, 03:36 PM
MODERATORS: perhaps we need to set up a sub-forum for all posts/threads primarily about FinalRender2, under the main C4D?

Did you add their names or IP addresses?
Did you get a prompt asking you whether or not to unblock fRStation when you launched fRStation?

No, nothing ever asked for anything, whether I started FRuStration as a service or in the DOS window. I uninstalled and reinstalled on one machine, no difference.

Baffled...thanks for your continued help

Thalaxis
11-18-2005, 03:46 PM
MODERATORS: perhaps we need to set up a sub-forum for all posts/threads primarily about FinalRender2, under the main C4D?


C4D? What's that? :)


No, nothing ever asked for anything, whether I started FRuStration as a service or in the DOS window. I uninstalled and reinstalled on one machine, no difference.


So it's the slightly harder way, then.

Ok, let's try this -- but keep in mind that I'm going by memory... so it probably won't be exact:
In the system tray, there is an icon for the security center (on my box it looks like a small shield with a small red "x" because I don't have a virus scanner installed). Click on that to open the security center app. If your system is hiding behind a hardware firewall, you can get away with just turning off the firewall, and relying on the hardware firewall on the router.

If you prefer not to do that, open the firewall settings panel, which IIRC is accessible via a button or link at the bottom of the security center app, rather than in the firewall settings sub-panel where you'd expect to find it.

Once you get that far, the rest is simple: click "add an exception" and in the dialog that opens, pick a name (the name is purely for your own benefit, so call it whatever you like), put '6000' in the port field, and click 'ok' and that should take care of it.

Now let's just hope that it's not working because your port was blocked :)


Baffled...thanks for your continued help


No problem... this will be easier from home where I have an actual XP box in front of me, though... we may have to tag-team this to get your situation sorted out ;)

Ernest Burden
11-18-2005, 03:57 PM
In the system tray, there is an icon for the security center..
If your system is hiding behind a hardware firewall, you can get away with just turning off the firewall, and relying on the hardware firewall on the router.

No icon, I checked and the XP firewall is not turned on, so its all in the router.

AdamT
11-18-2005, 03:58 PM
Okay, this is not so hard.

* Go to Windows Control Panel>Windows Firewall;
* Click the "Exceptions" tab at the top;
* Click the "Add Port..." button;
* Fill in the name field with whatever ("fRustration" for example) and type "6000" in the port field;
* "TCP" radio button should be checked by default--that's as it should be;
* click "OK" to exit out of there, and "OK" in the firewall dialogue.

That's it.

Repeat for port 3140, using a different name (suggested, "IPCramp" or "IPCrap"). :)

[EDIT: oops, sorry Ernest, we were typing at the same time and the above doesn't apply to you]

Thalaxis
11-18-2005, 05:05 PM
Ok, if the Windows firewall is turned off, then obviously that's not the problem.

Can you ping the machine with the fRustration node from your workstation? Just "ping <ip address> from a command shell (start->run and type "cmd").

It might also be worthwhile to check the firewall settings on the workstation to make sure that it's not blocked on that end, as well.

Ernest Burden
11-18-2005, 05:49 PM
Can you ping the machine with the fRustration node from your workstation? Just "ping <ip address> from a command shell (start->run and type "cmd").

Meaning I get a response? Yes, I do. I run NetRender on both of these other machines. One is XP with the firewall turned off, the other is W2K which seems to lack a firewall all together.

flingster
11-18-2005, 06:04 PM
can i ask if you can't use proximal shader and area light falloff what native alternatives are available on this? any suggestions?

Thalaxis
11-18-2005, 06:46 PM
can i ask if you can't use proximal shader and area light falloff what native alternatives are available on this? any suggestions?

I'm just getting into the shader trees in my spare time, so I could be wrong about this, but there are a few shader components that look like they could do the trick. There are components that allow you to decide what happens to a ray at the time of the ray-hit, and also to extract the information the ray tracer produces at that point, plus a falloff component that you can drive with pretty much whatever data you want.

Thalaxis
11-18-2005, 07:06 PM
Meaning I get a response? Yes, I do. I run NetRender on both of these other machines. One is XP with the firewall turned off, the other is W2K which seems to lack a firewall all together.

Hm... that's seriously screwy. I'm running out of ideas. :(

I don't know what more I can offer you, unfortunately. Sorry :(

Edwin Braun
11-18-2005, 07:42 PM
so what happens when a render client goes down? (more computers = more possibility)
do buckets get reallocated automatically? would i just restart the FR manager and it goes on? does this mess up all other frstations?
edwin, any official info on that?
dann

When a render slave fails, the master is taking over he missing bucket. right now the onyl thing that should never fail is the master.
We have the plan to enhance this system in the future that makes it much more robust in such fail cases.
edwin

dann_stubbs
11-18-2005, 07:45 PM
When a render slave fails, the master is taking over he missing bucket. right now the onyl thing that should never fail is the master.
We have the plan to enhance this system in the future that makes it much more robust in such fail cases.
edwin

what happens to the frstations if the master fails? do they keep rendering?

do the frstations recover? if the master comes back online do they recover or do the stations need a complete reboot?

thanks for the info - just nice to prepare instead of being caught with it.

dann

Edwin Braun
11-18-2005, 07:50 PM
what happens to the frstations if the master fails? do they keep rendering?

do the frstations recover? if the master comes back online do they recover or do the stations need a complete reboot?

thanks for the info - just nice to prepare instead of being caught with it.

dann

When the master dies the slaves are free :D

NOPE this case is not good. You'd better have a good stable network and workstation! From our experience from 3ds max we found that most of the DR problems come from a bad windows networking setup! And believe me we had the craziest setups we have seen! Windows was able to work through explorer and coudl reach all PC's by name, but TCP/IP was not able to do anyting on that network. It was just a plain mess and netbios was used actually and TCP/IP was dead in thn net ....

Just one example of networking horror :D

edwin

lllab
11-18-2005, 08:56 PM
when i do a lightanimation, only the lightintensity and position is changing, what kind of GI is best for that?

i assume it is adaptive QMC? or can i use fr image?
whats fastest without flicker.

thanks for help,
stefan

Ernest Burden
11-18-2005, 09:07 PM
When the master dies the slaves are free :D

In my case the slaves are pretty uninterested in showing up, yet the master is waiting.

OK. Is there anything to be learned from the fact that fRustration never asked for anything like an ID for the main app? Because it just starts, says its in server mode (why server mode?) but nothing shows up in the FR distributed panel. That INCLUDES if I run it on the same PC as Cinema.

Thalaxis
11-18-2005, 09:09 PM
OK. Is there anything to be learned from the fact that fRustration never asked for anything like an ID for the main app? Because it just starts, says its in server mode (why server mode?) but nothing shows up in the FR distributed panel. That INCLUDES if I run it on the same PC as Cinema.

That's all it says even when it works. Did you add the slave nodes in the distributed panel? You can add them by either IP or network name, just enter it in the field and click "add." It doesn't go out looking for them, it wants you to point them out.

dann_stubbs
11-18-2005, 09:11 PM
When the master dies the slaves are free :D

NOPE this case is not good. You'd better have a good stable network and workstation! From our experience from 3ds max we found that most of the DR problems come from a bad windows networking setup! And believe me we had the craziest setups we have seen! Windows was able to work through explorer and coudl reach all PC's by name, but TCP/IP was not able to do anyting on that network. It was just a plain mess and netbios was used actually and TCP/IP was dead in thn net ....

Just one example of networking horror :D


no worries here - my network is solid. just curious is all. i like to be prepared for anything and to know how to handle a situation ahead of time is all.

so you didn't really answer what happens to the frstations when the frmaster dies? i will just do it purposely on 1 client to find out myself but it is good to know from the experts - and that is you.

dann

flingster
11-18-2005, 09:25 PM
is there an sdk for fr?

Ernest Burden
11-18-2005, 09:28 PM
It doesn't go out looking for them, it wants you to point them out.

It has come to my attention that I may be a dumb ass. I'll report back if this proves to be true...

You know, NetRender clients phone home.



BREAKING NEWS: It can now be confirmed that I am, in fact, a dumb ass. You have to TELL IT to look for the other PCs. By name or number, the fRustration function will not, on its own, go looking for them. That, apparently, is your job.

So the point is--fRustration really does use slaves--they don't want to be here, and you must chase them down if you want any work out of them. NetRender, on the otherhand, has employees. Ones who cheerfully report for work first thing in the morning, and if they run out of things to do will keep checking in waiting for another assignment.


So I typed in the IP numbers for my machines and they are ready, and capable. Thank you all for your advice and forebearance.

Chadman
11-19-2005, 02:31 AM
Ernest l luv your post above,

BREAKING NEWS: It can now be confirmed that I am, in fact, a dumb ass.

It's good to come across some humor like this to help lighten the "to much information" situation that comes from trying to understand a new bit of software.

Well l can confirm that maybe l've been one of the more lucky FR2 user's as l received the email to DL the software straight away, but l only installed it last night after being able to read everyone's experiences and watching the ipclamp video it installed with not 1 issue. I will admit that l've only went thru the tutorial's so far and haven't tried any DR renders with may laptop as a slave yet so l may not be out off the woods yet!!! :bounce: heheh

I'm no tech head so l may be over reacting here but the FR shader tree thing is VERY DEEP, l wonder if l'm the only one here thinking that the FR Shader Tree topic will need a sticky thread.

Chad P.

Thalaxis
11-19-2005, 02:59 AM
It's good to come across some humor like this to help lighten the "to much information" situation that comes from trying to understand a new bit of software.


Humor's always a good thing :)


I'm no tech head so l may be over reacting here but the FR shader tree thing is VERY DEEP, l wonder if l'm the only one here thinking that the FR Shader Tree topic will need a sticky thread.


You're right, it is extremely deep... it would be well worth a sticky thread. There's a LOT to learn there... it's a lot like the Messiah ShaderFlow, but with as much access to the renderer as XSI's RenderTree.

At least that's how it seems, at any rate -- I'm still just poking around with basics :)

talos72
11-19-2005, 03:54 AM
Anyone else having issues with running FR on multiple machine? I installed Iclamp on my laptop using my wireless network card, I also installed FR on my desktop also. I filled the IP and all when installing FR but I keep getting this error "The specified resource type cannot be found in the image file" when trying to add FR to render setting on my desktop computer. I have my laptop on and IPclamp running on my laptop, but still seem to get this darn error and I can't even get rid of it unless I turn my machine off. I had a feeling the instal was going to be a real pain.

I would appreciate help.

Thalaxis
11-19-2005, 04:24 AM
I know this won't help and I apologize, but I actually had exactly that error the first time I installed it... and I don't know what fixed it!

However, what we (now) know you need to do:
open up the ports (6000 for fRstation)
open up the IPCramp port (defaults to 3140 IIRC)
request a license for both fR and the translator
add the IP address or hostname of the render slave in the distributed render panel

Did I miss anything?

talos72
11-19-2005, 05:46 AM
"add the IP address or hostname of the render slave in the distributed render panel"


How do I exactly do the above (if the above is even the reason for my errors)? I really appreciate a step by step.
Also, is fRstation instalation necessary for all?

My main concern is to be able to switch between using FR on my laptop or desktop. That's all. It should not have to be so complicated.

Thanks

ps. I know Cebas may have gone to some length to make installing FR easy, but I must say it isn't so far. Way too many factors that could go wrong and must be pin-pointed. Between setting up ports and IP stuff, it is really confusing and messy IMO. :sad:

Srek
11-19-2005, 07:17 AM
So the point is--fRustration really does use slaves--they don't want to be here, and you must chase them down if you want any work out of them. NetRender, on the otherhand, has employees. Ones who cheerfully report for work first thing in the morning, and if they run out of things to do will keep checking in waiting for another assignment.


It's a bit dfferent. fRStation systems are freelancers while Net Clients are employees. fRStation systems can work for different clients while Net Clients always have only one employer. If you have more then one CINEMA with fR2 running each of these installation can hire one or more fR Station systems to support rendering.
Cheers
Björn

STRAT
11-19-2005, 11:21 AM
FRStation is bloody fantastic. i work in a practice with over 100 pc's on our network. so as a test i installed the frstation proggy on the 10 fastest office pc's and linked them all together in the DR manager.

wow, all those buckets rendering a single image. i was mezmorised!

hehehe, also, the regular users of those pc's aren't yet aware i've utilised their machines for my own rendering use, and being typical caddies, they probably never will. all they'll notice is a drastic slow down. i wonder if i should spill the beans?

andronikos916
11-19-2005, 11:45 AM
FRStation is bloody fantastic. i work in a practice with over 100 pc's on our network. so as a test i installed the frstation proggy on the 10 fastest office pc's and linked them all together in the DR manager.

wow, all those buckets rendering a single image. i was mezmorised!

hehehe, also, the regular users of those pc's aren't yet aware i've utilised their machines for my own rendering use, and being typical caddies, they probably never will. all they'll notice is a drastic slow down. i wonder if i should spill the beans?

enable thread low priority - and they will never understand !

Ernest Burden
11-19-2005, 01:01 PM
enable thread low priority - and they will never understand !

Does anyone know if a fRustration client crashes (or my 4-year-old turns off the computer) what happens to a render in progress? Does the image get finished by the remaining machines?



OK, it would appear not. This is BAD, if true. Maybe there is just a crashing situation, but I'm not used to crashing with Cinema. I just has a fRustration client close itself on my W2K machine and the render was stopped, either locked up C4D or I didn't wait long enough. Either way, we cannot have large renders in danger of never finishing. Right now I'm just testing lighting in a file. Later I need to render a final, and with AR it will take many hours. But it will get done. I'm not worried I'll lose many hours of render time if one of the buckets has a problem.

What do we know about this?


What appears to be happening is that the non-problem buckets are completing the pre-pass, but the render engine will not move on to complete the render, it just sits there waiting for that one bad bucket to be done, which will not happen.

I went to restart the fRustration client, came back to C4D crashed on the main PC.

This is bad.

Thalaxis
11-19-2005, 02:59 PM
"add the IP address or hostname of the render slave in the distributed render panel"


In the distributed tab, click "show"
In the panel it opens, check "distributed render"
There's a text field next to the "add slave" button (between the two is a "remove slave" button). Put the IP address (or hostname) of the slave there, and click add.

When it finds it, and marks it available, all you have to do is check the box next to it in the list below, and you're good to go.

I hope that's what you were looking for!


Also, is fRstation instalation necessary for all?


Just on the slaves.


My main concern is to be able to switch between using FR on my laptop or desktop. That's all. It should not have to be so complicated.


I'm not completely sure about this, but I THINK that you can install IPCramp on more than one machine. If you tie the license to an ethernet card that you can move around easily, like the USB adapter I'm using in my P4, I guess you can use that to get a license set up on another box when you plug in that ethernet adapter. I haven't tried it yet though, so I can't say much about the procedure at this point. Edwin did say that it's supposed to work, so that's why I'm making that guess.


ps. I know Cebas may have gone to some length to make installing FR easy, but I must say it isn't so far. Way too many factors that could go wrong and must be pin-pointed. Between setting up ports and IP stuff, it is really confusing and messy IMO. :sad:

The problem is the licensing stuff... it wasn't clearly explained up front, and that lead to a lot of confusion. Once you get that squared away, it's pretty straightforward, but getting past that can be a bit of a bear.

In fact, once you get the IPCramp issues resolved, setting up a distributed render is as easy in fR as it is in NetRender, and that's saying a lot.

Thalaxis
11-19-2005, 03:05 PM
Does anyone know if a fRustration client crashes (or my 4-year-old turns off the computer) what happens to a render in progress? Does the image get finished by the remaining machines?

That's what Edwin says is supposed to happen. I imagine that your situation is precisely what the timeout settings on the distributed render panel are for. I'm guessing that those timeouts are expressed in seconds. The section on distributed rendering in the manual explains this a bit.

duderender
11-19-2005, 04:43 PM
so here i get excited to play some fR2 this weekend and now the server is down... one upset after another i see...... this is my greeting from cebas: FATAL ERROR: register_globals is disabled in php.ini, please enable it!

talos72
11-19-2005, 04:45 PM
"If you tie the license to an ethernet card that you can move around easily"

Well, I think I got to instal (I think) FR correctly on my PC by just downloading the latest installer of FR and reinstalling it on the desktop. As far as using a USB network card, I already tied the license to my laptop wireless network card since I will be using my laptop often.

Also, apparently once you pick the card for you license you can not easily change it unless you specifically request a change from Cebas. This can cause issues regarding emergencies (and they do happen even if you use a dedicated server) should the machine acting as license server not be available suddendly. How easy or difficult would it be to switch the card the license is tied to?

I understand Cebas' concern for piracy. However, this lack of flexibility in setting up and running the license does not help people like me (a decent number of customers) who are not studios but would like to be able to switch between machines at home and on the road. Again, a dongle solution may have worked better (and easier stil than having to setup up a USB network card) as an option. The other option would have been to allow the instal of IPClamp on say two machines with the purchase of one license but only be able to use the seats one at a time...without having one machine needing to access a card somewhere else. As of now, from what I understand, IPClamp seems to work by installing it only on one machine working as a license server-- unless I am wrong.

I hope Cebas could address this issue of being able to access licenses from alternate machines.

Thalaxis
11-19-2005, 04:49 PM
Again, a dongle solution may have worked better (and easier stil than having to setup up a USB network card) as an option.

Ironic, isn't it?

duderender
11-19-2005, 04:51 PM
"If you tie the license to an ethernet card that you can move around easily"

Well, I think I got to instal (I think) FR correctly on my PC by just downloading the latest installer of FR and reinstalling it on the desktop. As far as using a USB network card, I already tied to license to my laptop wireless network card since I will be using my laptop often. Also, apparently once you pick the card for you license you can not easily change it unless you specifically request a change from Cebas.

I hope Cebas could address this issue of being able to access licenses from alternate machines.

This is why i specifically bought a USB wireless adapter. IT SUCKS for sure, but server access licensing is a pretty popular method. However, FlexLM addressed this issue for clients where you can borrow a license for a specific period of time.

However, it doesn't matter when they licensing register isn't not available from cebas so I have no license at all :(

Jake-L
11-19-2005, 05:44 PM
This is why i specifically bought a USB wireless adapter. IT SUCKS for sure, but server access licensing is a pretty popular method.
Dang!

I had my Visa at the ready, but then started wandering about what this network card business was about. Found the answer at Cebas online support and still can't believe it:
----
"How can I transfer a cebas plug-in license to a new/different PC?"
There is no possibility to transfer the license right now. We recommend to install IPClamp on a license server that usually does not get changed. The license can be accessed from any workstation in the network. Or as the license is connected to the network card you can move the network card to the new PC .
----
As most mobos have the NIC integrated, does this mean that once you upgrade your workstation you have to re-buy FR2?? (Or buy an extra device as stated above)

I understand that for certain situations the floating license approach is convenient. But what about us users in the "wokstation and a laptop" category (a large one amongst C4D users, I gather)??
Renewal of license in case of a hardware upgrade should be possible . If not, it should be clearly stated at cebas shop before the user makes the purhase.

talos72
11-19-2005, 05:50 PM
I don't think you need to re-buy a new FR license should you change hardware (say upgrade your network card), but you do need to let Cebas know and I believe they will issue you a new license to instal with the new card. Of course you have to explain your situation to them.

dann_stubbs
11-19-2005, 06:06 PM
Dang!

I had my Visa at the ready, but then started wandering about what this network card business was about. Found the answer at Cebas online support and still can't believe it:

As most mobos have the NIC integrated, does this mean that once you upgrade your workstation you have to re-buy FR2?? (Or buy an extra device as stated above)


all i did was pick up a usb ethernet adapter for $19 and licensed it to that. after all that is way cheaper then the $150 for a hardware dongle from alias and essentially works the same.

dann

Ernest Burden
11-19-2005, 06:11 PM
What appears to be happening is that the non-problem buckets are completing the pre-pass, but the render engine will not move on to complete the render, it just sits there waiting for that one bad bucket to be done, which will not happen.

This is bad.

I tried changing the time-outs, as suggested. One of the three buckets did go down (something funky in this file, no doubt), but the other two kept going. Until the time to switch from pre-pass to final--C4D crash.

This is bad.

Thalaxis
11-19-2005, 07:30 PM
I tried changing the time-outs, as suggested. One of the three buckets did go down (something funky in this file, no doubt), but the other two kept going. Until the time to switch from pre-pass to final--C4D crash.

This is bad.

Are you getting out of memory errors when it crashes? I ran into a few of those the first time I enabled displacement...

AdamT
11-19-2005, 07:34 PM
I had quite a few displacement crashes, but I don't think I ever got an out of memory warning. It just crashed straightaway.

Ernest Burden
11-19-2005, 07:45 PM
Are you getting out of memory errors when it crashes? I ran into a few of those the first time I enabled displacement...

No. And no displacement. It could be some big area lights, but as of today this file isn't doing well with DR.

The bigger point is that losing a fRustration slave should not bring down the host, yet that is exactly what is happening.


By the way--the nasty noise I showed many posts ago--it disappears when I turn off two big area lights I was using to bring light in through the window-walls. They also seem to be at the heart of the DR slave crashes. Yes, I used a fR light tag on 'em.

marshalartist
11-20-2005, 04:41 PM
all i did was pick up a usb ethernet adapter for $19 and licensed it to that. after all that is way cheaper then the $150 for a hardware dongle from alias and essentially works the same.

dann
How do you use this, do you have to connect a USB memory stick or hard drive or a laptop?
My IP addresses are designated by my router so when my router gets restarted each machine gets a different IP address to the one they had before, is this going to cause me a problem? I will not get chance to install FR2 until later in the week, but I do not want to cock it up. Thanks,

Peter

nycL45
11-20-2005, 04:45 PM
all i did was pick up a usb ethernet adapter for $19 and licensed it to that. after all that is way cheaper then the $150 for a hardware dongle from alias and essentially works the same.

dann

Dann, is this a solution that works for windows, mac or both?

dann_stubbs
11-20-2005, 04:47 PM
How do you use this, do you have to connect a USB memory stick or hard drive or a laptop?
My IP addresses are designated by my router so when my router gets restarted each machine gets a different IP address to the one they had before, is this going to cause me a problem? I will not get chance to install FR2 until later in the week, but I do not want to cock it up. Thanks,


well it has to be something with a MAC address - so an ethernet (or i guess any wireless adapter too) so it can key to the network address on it.

so i just plugged in the cheap usb adapter and installed the drivers so it would be seen by the OS.

then in the IPClamp application you just set the first tab to the built in ethernet (or whatever ethernet you are using for actual data) then in the SECOND tab where you enter in your licences and personal data you just choose the USB ethernet adapter as where to lock it to.

that's it. then if you need to move it to another computer you just move the USB ethernet adapter and install IPClamp - should work fine (seems no cross platform use though - i was thinking about that later - wondering if i could have found some USB adapter that might work on both mac and PC so it then could move between them.)

dann

dann_stubbs
11-20-2005, 05:21 PM
Dann, is this a solution that works for windows, mac or both?

one thing i'm a bit disappointed by (partially by my own misunderstanding it appears) - is you need a full version of C4D to use the DR. i had thought there was a cebas render manager that was a little app that would load and queue up the DR render like any other maya render manager software (or like NET Server does)

so essentially to work on a mac and render to PC you need to wait for the mac version to ship (and hope that they work together with no issues - waiting for cebas for that)

so my previous misunderstanding was that there was some sort of cebas rendermanager was not 100% correct. yes there is a DR manager - but it is part of the plugin inside of C4D. (i wish that could be pulled outside and made standalone)

so you need a copy of C4D (and ALL plugins and all the other related items installed on that copy) to do DR renders. ...not what i was thinking... this essentially ties up your C4D workstation/application for any renders - so while renders are faster using DR, many will still be kinda stuck waiting for the render to finish instead of keep working like now when you just send it off to NET Server to render it.

my issue is i use OSX for servers (including NET Servers) so while i have a PC server that was designated to be my FR2 DR server - all my plugins are registered to my OSX copy of c4d (my main workstation) : ( so i can put a copy of C4D on the PC but the few dozen plugins i have (that everyone seems to depend on to fill out C4D gaps) won't load on the PC without purchasing them again for a new serial number... i don't really want to purchase and upkeep another copy of C4D just for that.

so until the OSX version ships a user like me (work on OSX and render to PC) will essentially not be able to use FR2 fully. while NET (and i assume NET with render licenses of FR2) can render using plugins with no serial number issues (like normal NET rendering) - that is whole frame only so no DR benefits on large format renders.

just a heads up for others info - i was not aware of this and it kinda is a little snag for me while i think about this some more...

dann

marshalartist
11-20-2005, 05:21 PM
Thanks Dan, but do I need permanent IP addresses or MAC addresses on all my machines, do I need to change the way my router works?

Peter

dann_stubbs
11-20-2005, 05:35 PM
Thanks Dan, but do I need permanent IP addresses or MAC addresses on all my machines, do I need to change the way my router works?

Peter

nope the MAC address is just used for the license - dynamic IP is unrelated. (the MAC address is a unique assignment given to every (NIC) network adapter - essentially a true individual hardware "ID" which is why many applications use that to lock to since it is supposed to never exist on another hardware)

your only concern will be if your server changes IP then you are dealing with pointing the render clients back to the new IP of the server etc.

should be no IP issues related to licensing this way - there is not even an IP assigned to my USB ethernet dongle.

dann

duderender
11-20-2005, 05:36 PM
How do you use this, do you have to connect a USB memory stick or hard drive or a laptop?
My IP addresses are designated by my router so when my router gets restarted each machine gets a different IP address to the one they had before, is this going to cause me a problem? I will not get chance to install FR2 until later in the week, but I do not want to cock it up. Thanks,

Peter

No, you don't use IP's to access the license server. You use the machine name. So as long as you keep your server's machine name then its all good.

For example, at home I plug my USB adapter in my machine name \\compa. Then all my computers on the LAN will have the name \\compa as the license server. THen when I want to use the laptop, I simply configure the laptop to use \\laptop server.

In either case its looking for MAC address you registered with on computer name \\<whatever>

duderender
11-20-2005, 05:39 PM
one thing i'm a bit disappointed by (partially by my own misunderstanding it appears) - is you need a full version of C4D to use the DR.

So in layman's terms, I have to copy my c4d folder to every machine I want to use with DR?

Ernest Burden
11-20-2005, 05:55 PM
So in layman's terms, I have to copy my c4d folder to every machine I want to use with DR?

Good question. I have C4D folder copied to my other machines to run NetRender. The fRustration slave app does not seem to go looking for the C4D folder, however. And its just copied, not installed, so the registry doesn't know its there.

So I would think you do not need C4D present on each slave, but then...I already have it there.

dann_stubbs
11-20-2005, 05:55 PM
So in layman's terms, I have to copy my c4d folder to every machine I want to use with DR?

nope to use DR you just install this tiny app named frstation

but to control it you need a full C4D with FR2 (and all other plugins) installed. (in my situation where i want to offload that duty to a dedicated server is the problem)

dann

Ernest Burden
11-20-2005, 06:02 PM
By the way--the nasty noise I showed many posts ago--it disappears when I turn off two big area lights I was using to bring light in through the window-walls. They also seem to be at the heart of the DR slave crashes. Yes, I used a fR light tag on 'em.

Further testing reveals that the noise is a product of the samples setting for the area light. It happens whether the light is set to area shadows or mapped. At a setting of 100 samples in the fR2 light tag I get bad noise on some surfaces. Drop the setting to 10, it gets worse. Raise it to 1000 the noise is gone. But the little test area goes from rendering in 3 minutes to 30 minutes.

nycL45
11-20-2005, 06:35 PM
Dann, I'm part of the laymen corps and wanted to know if your "usb ethernet adapter" solution works with Mac laptops, etc.?

dann_stubbs
11-20-2005, 06:52 PM
Dann, I'm part of the laymen corps and wanted to know if your "usb ethernet adapter" solution works with Mac laptops, etc.?

i had hoped it would at least show on the PC without any driver installation - but it did need the drivers to even be shown as an alternative to lock to.

so from my casual browsing this morning i have only seen some bluetooth USB devices that say both mac and PC - i don't think i've seen any mac USB ethernet adapters so i am guessing not.

i don't know personally if a bluetooth USB device has a MAC address - but those are nice and tiny and cheap too - so now i at least i wish i tried one to see if it had shown up. overall not a big deal though for me as i will be locking another maya render manager (PC only) to this USB dongle too.

dann

DynamicRealism
11-20-2005, 07:57 PM
curious dan, whats your explanation for solid spline pro working perfectly with dr? do u have any examples of where plugins wont work..super curious as i havent ran into anything yet

dann_stubbs
11-20-2005, 08:13 PM
curious dan, whats your explanation for solid spline pro working perfectly with dr? do u have any examples of where plugins wont work..super curious as i havent ran into anything yet

? is that question for me?

dann

Jake-L
11-20-2005, 08:48 PM
Thank you Dann for the useful (and detailed) info. :thumbsup:

DynamicRealism
11-20-2005, 08:56 PM
yessir mr. dann =)

dann_stubbs
11-20-2005, 09:11 PM
curious dan, whats your explanation for solid spline pro working perfectly with dr? do u have any examples of where plugins wont work..super curious as i havent ran into anything yet

i wasn't sure if that was directed towards me since i'm not sure where i said anything about solid spline pro not working. -or plugins not working at all acutally?

for me they aren't working (well some are that aren't the serialized ones)

the issue is i have is to install C4D onto a PC to use the DR ability of FR2 - but since all my plugins are registered to my osx copy of C4D - they won't all work on the PC copy of C4D with a different serial number.

i was saying my expectations were of a separate little cebas DR render manager app that would be able to point to a scene file and then take it from there (i can do that with my maya render manager software - including bucket rendering an image)

is that where the confusion lies?

dann

nycL45
11-20-2005, 09:15 PM
Thanks, Dann. To you and this thread, is there a portable solution for Mac users (PBG4 OS10) like the USB ethernet adapter for PCs?

(Wo is me. I've been following the threads here and at Cebas f. in prep for the future arrival of the Mac/fR2. No telling how long the wait will be. Wo is me.)

DynamicRealism
11-20-2005, 10:24 PM
cleared it right up, thx dann, yeah to my extent of knowledge, cebas really means "slave" when it comes to the dr haha.

dann_stubbs
11-20-2005, 10:28 PM
cleared it right up, thx dann, yeah to my extent of knowledge, cebas really means "slave" when it comes to the dr haha.

can FR2 be run from a command line that anyone knows of? just wondering if i can render to it using the custom app commands of my other maya render manager.

dann