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godess tanit
08-20-2005, 02:15 PM
Hello,

Does anyone use the Ogo Taiki plugin? The results look excellent, and it is highly regarded BUT.........

I've been trying off and on for 4/5 days - more on than off - to achieve some kind of understanding of the ogo taiki plugin (Volumetric Atmosphere and Clouds) with no success so far.

I've tried following the talkthrough in chapter 7 of Landscapes and Lightwave on the Lightwave Group website, and I have the "cloud fly-through".lws files kindly provided by Gregory Glezakos on one of the Newtek sites.

I've tried working through the .lws files provided by Ogo Taiki, comparing the settings step by step with the Glezakos ones, refering back to the "Landscapes and Lightwave" instructions.

I can't seem to get any logical results from any of this. Does anyone have any success with this plug-in?

Can you write a tutorial?

What I'm trying to do is make a cloud fly-through....like Gregory, but I don't want to just copy his. Besides I need to do something different.

Any heros out there?

Thanks,

GT.

Jarrede
08-20-2005, 02:24 PM
I put about 4 hours into it without any luck, I'm a looser when it comes to figuring out dozens of arbitrary panels that seem to have little to no effect on the final render. The render hits on my end were pretty bad. If the documentation was better, I'd consider picking it up again.

it's got the power, but not a good presentation.

Ed Bittner
08-20-2005, 03:20 PM
Check this out................

http://www.firedragon.com/~flashfire/

there is a whole chapter on OGO.
Oops, I see you've been there.
E.

godess tanit
08-20-2005, 03:32 PM
Yes, been there, done that - but can't get the t-shirt to fit :-)

Jarrede
08-20-2005, 04:17 PM
Check this out................

http://www.firedragon.com/~flashfire/ (http://www.firedragon.com/%7Eflashfire/)

there is a whole chapter on OGO.
Oops, I see you've been there.
E.

it's new to me, thanks. :)

TrexGreg
08-20-2005, 05:35 PM
Hello,

Does anyone use the Ogo Taiki plugin? The results look excellent, and it is highly regarded BUT.........

I've been trying off and on for 4/5 days - more on than off - to achieve some kind of understanding of the ogo taiki plugin (Volumetric Atmosphere and Clouds) with no success so far.

I've tried following the talkthrough in chapter 7 of Landscapes and Lightwave on the Lightwave Group website, and I have the "cloud fly-through".lws files kindly provided by Gregory Glezakos on one of the Newtek sites.

I've tried working through the .lws files provided by Ogo Taiki, comparing the settings step by step with the Glezakos ones, refering back to the "Landscapes and Lightwave" instructions.

I can't seem to get any logical results from any of this. Does anyone have any success with this plug-in?

Can you write a tutorial?

What I'm trying to do is make a cloud fly-through....like Gregory, but I don't want to just copy his. Besides I need to do something different.

Any heros out there?

Thanks,

GT.

Well...
The sad thing is that i'm working 24-7 on a project right now with the deadline coming fast, so i don't have time for a tut. I'd like though to make one, when i find spare time.

Out of my mind, one thing you have to remember is that Taiki works best when your scene is in real life scales. That is, if you want to make a cloud fly through, consider placing the camera in the proper altitude. Another thing is because Taiki is WAAY to slow for everything, set all quality settings to Very or Ultra Low and start from there. Viper is your best friend for Taiki work; set its window to 320x240, or better 160x120.

In the Sampling tab for a cloud layer, the Quality setting is tied to the Max Samples number. Increasing the Quality, you can lower your samples for the same results. For far away clouds you can get away with low max samples number. But, if you want to place the camera inside a cloud -prepare yourself for a looong wait- you should increase your max samples, otherwise the clouds would look transparent were they shouldn't. For testing you could also set the Quality to Fixed Linear or Nonlinear, set the Max Samples to 4 or 5 and take it up from there slowly, until the clouds are solid.

In the Density tab, is where you shape the cloud look. Height is the altitude where the cloud base is and Thickness is how "tall" or "thick" this cloud will be. So, you should set the camera somewhere between the Height plus the cloud Thickness altitude. To actually shape the clouds you add a Texture to the Master Density, tweak it's parameters and then play with the Min and Max Density Clips and Curve to make soft or hard edge clouds. You can create some really weird and spectacular clouds here...

With Taiki you can also, use Particles to create and shape clouds but that's not for now. For Coloring the clouds you can tweak the Color tab settings. They're pretty straight forward, at least for simple things; as is the Shadow tab. Remember, to start with low Quality settings and then move up.

Really, with Taiki to get results you can't just focus on one tab and sit there tewaking only that. You have to jump between the tabs, but keep track of what you're doing and also don't change more than one setting at a time. Walk with small steps and make a big cup of coffee, as you're gona spend a lot of time with it.

Taiki is slow. And i mean slooow. I have a dual xeon 3.6GHz HP system and it's slooow. And i don't think it's multithreading either. Unless, the writer comes back to work with it, we would need a single CPU running in 500GHz clock speed, in order to get the most out of it. On the other hand, it's network-render friendly. So, even one frame you can split it in many CPUs...

That's all for now. Hope i made some sense...
Good luck...

Jarrede
08-20-2005, 05:54 PM
wow, thanx for the info man, I thought my hardware was going it was so slow on my end. :)

Off the top of your head, are those volumetric's subject to the same multiple thread+transparency issues that standard LW' volumetric's are? If they aren't then I'm jumpin for joy right now.

I guessing they are subject...but...never know.

TrexGreg
08-20-2005, 06:00 PM
wow, thanx for the info man, I thought my hardware was going it was so slow on my end. :)

Off the top of your head, are those volumetric's subject to the same multiple thread+transparency issues that standard LW' volumetric's are? If they aren't then I'm jumpin for joy right now.

I guessing they are subject...but...never know.

Haven't test that, but my guess is that they are...
Gregg

godess tanit
08-20-2005, 07:07 PM
Thanks a lot TrexGreg - In spite of being busy you took the time to go into useful detail. You has inspired me to re-enter the fray.

P.S. You must be the Greg Glezakos! Great work on the Newtek site. You are reponsible for my headaches over the last few days :-) - just joking. Very inspiring to see what is possible. If anyone could write a tutorial-guide to Ogo you're the man. Think about it. It's a great piece of kit but few use it because they can't figure it out. Slowness is not so much a problem - if one is a pro then you probably have the speedt set-up, if one is a hobbyist then you don't have a deadline. Just run it everynight. And anyway, the disadvantage of lack of speed is related to the quality of the result. If the result is good it becomes to be more worth it. Isn't it?

GT

TrexGreg
08-20-2005, 10:14 PM
P.S. You must be the Greg Glezakos!

Yeap! That's me....:)

Just run it everynight.

Well...
The project i'm working right now, dosen't leave me "nights" or "days" free. I work 24-7 and i mean, 24 hours every day, before i get some sleep! Sometimes i work 36 or 44 hours "per day", then i go to sleep. It's a dirty job, but someone got to do it...:scream:

As soon as i finish this project, i may find some time to write a Taiki walkthrough or something, cause it's a great piece of software, anyway...

Cheers,

Dragon_Lee
08-21-2005, 04:46 AM
A couple of things I do not understand from OGO-Taiki...

Fog/Mist layers NEVER work for me, no matter what I try they don't work...

I've seen some examples where it is implied either Fog or Mist layers are needed to create the "sunbeam through clouds" effects, but alas, they NEVER show up when I want them to...

Also, I've seen cloudlayers in FRONT of mountain ranges, or where the camera floats over/through the cloud layer, here ditto, I cannot recreate either of those effects...

Have tried a pointbox to use as a cloudlayer in front of whatever, but it never renders as such :(

Frustrating to know it supposedly IS possible to create these things, but never ever managing it :(

duke
08-21-2005, 10:26 AM
I played with it a while ago, and it didn't take all that long to work it out. Like anything, just open the examples and play with the params. Nothing came of it because of the horrid rendertimes, although I didn't find rendering clouds to be all that intensive once you've tweaked the settings. Terrain on the other hand takes ages because it requires more precision.

phamarus
08-21-2005, 03:39 PM
Hmm...Getting the sunrays to shine through takes some careful tweaking..
Heres one example..short avi clip ...clouds are moving...however these clouds was
the skytracer clouds prodedural texture...and i have found that i havent been able to
get these clouds to evolve fluctuate ...when moving the textures upwards, with other textures such as the turbulence it works fine..thou..

Maybe I´ll get the time to put up a nice moving cloud with evolvation to..oh and the quality
in this clip is far from the best settings.

http://hem.bredband.net/b418363/index_files/Test%20animations/sunrays%20ogo%20taiki.avi

Phamarus

Hoopti
08-22-2005, 12:15 AM
There was a project a while back on either the newtek forums or spinquad, don't remember which, which translated the stuff around taiki and made a working description of what the various pages meant. I think, and don't hold me to this, that GregMallick (spelling) agreed to host this information on his website.

I'll dig through the stuff here when I get a moment and see if I can find this stuff.

Hoop

godess tanit
08-22-2005, 10:33 AM
Thank you Hoopti - but could that be the "Landscapes and Lightwave" material which I have? This was chapter 7 of a 12 chapter e-book (only 9 completed so far) which used to be in the tutorials section of www.lwg3d.org (http://www.lwg3d.org) but seems to be no longer accessible.

But if you have some new leads that would be swimmingly good.:)

Peace.

GT

KillMe
08-22-2005, 11:49 AM
do you have to buy the hikari plugin to get this one? as i would quite like to try it ( difficult though it appears ) but really have no need to hikari

Ed Bittner
08-22-2005, 12:47 PM
I posted the link above.

E

erikals
09-26-2005, 12:44 AM
do you have to buy the hikari plugin to get this one? as i would quite like to try it ( difficult though it appears ) but really have no need to hikari

Yes, from what I know. But it is only $30, then you'll get both Hikari & Taiki.
It's worth it :)

habaņero
09-26-2005, 04:06 AM
Think the translation project was Hikari, here (http://www.spinquad.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=3421) ...

Hoopti
10-21-2005, 04:25 AM
Got through my list of sites finally, I think this is the one where he explains about every option in the program.

http://home.hawaii.rr.com/protopsalti/OgoHikari.htm

Hoop

Hoopti
10-21-2005, 04:27 AM
Oops. Just put on my glasses. That's Hikari, not Taiki.

I'll keep digging from my side.

Hoop

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