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RobertoOrtiz
08-16-2005, 02:41 PM
We don't live in a vacuum. Lightwave is just one fish in an ocean of 3D apps, and to ignore what they are doing right is not healthy. And trust me there is a lot of BIG fishes. And to be fair, there are ares where Lightwave needs to improve, or use some help.

So in order to clear the air, I have taken the liberty of posting a series of threads where we can spotlight other programs that can complement Lightwave.

(The key word for this thread is COMPLEMENT.)

The idea of this thread is to provide an one stop place where people can freely discuss how they are solving certain LW problems using other apps.


These are the threads so far in the series:

COMPLIMENTARY APPS: Animation (What other programs complement Lightwave?) (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=268089)
COMPLIMENTARY APPS: Modeling (What other programs complement Lightwave?) (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=268091)

(More threads will be added later depending on the success of this thread.)

-R

kennez
08-16-2005, 03:13 PM
For character animation, the one that immediately comes to mind is Messiah:Animate. The setup of a skeleton structure is very quick and easy, and the binding method is a joy (place the bones and go to the Animate tab - your model is now bound, with no need to paint weights!)

lillmagnus
08-16-2005, 04:35 PM
I started using messiah, and now I can't live witout it. With point oven pro, it works great with LW. I still do things like hair, softbody and hardbody, nature and logo animation in LW, but for characters the ease and joy of messiah is unbeatable.

yog
08-16-2005, 06:21 PM
Now that Point Oven fully supports XSI, I would say that XSI makes an excellent addition to Lightwave. Model in LW, pass the model to XSI either as an OBJ or using Point Oven, animate and Point Oven back for rendering.

Animation in XSI is a real pleasure, from the relative beginner to the most fussy TD, there's something for every one. Automatic rigging, many constraint types, Synoptic views (graphic pickers and key'ers), a very robust F-curve and Dope Sheet editors, a great automatic spine setup, and the real biggy, a NLA animation system that is actually easy and benificial to use (unlike some that are good for simple things but make the rest of the job more difficult).
Joint and volume control is another biggy. Since using point level morphs tied to joint rotation, control splines, or volume constraints I wouldn't go back to the default bone bulging commands.

Even though I have come to really like XSI's render tree and implementation of Mental Ray (hmmm, render passes, arghhh), it does have the disadvantage of a limited number of render nodes.
No problem, Point Oven the scene, including all light and camera settings, back to Lightwave and render with unlimited nodes :thumbsup:

BTW - I would have to say particles are better in LW, better still in MAX, but who wants to work in MAX if they don't HAVE to ;)
Also bring your animation back into LW to render also gets over the lack of a hair option in XSI Foundation and Essentials.

Nu Visual Science
08-16-2005, 08:05 PM
A lot of people suggest Motionbuilder via FBX, Endorphin also looks like the most exciting animation package ever made for me personally, It is very very expensive but at least a learning edition is available.

assistant pimp
08-16-2005, 08:17 PM
Swift 3d is great for getting a cool cell shade look and getting that into flash and illustrator as well. I said this in the modelling thread as well, not sure if it was a good fit.

telamon
08-16-2005, 08:34 PM
I have just downloaded the demo version of Endorphin and I do agree, though it is toooo expensive, it is one of the most fascinating application I have ever had the opportunity to use.

A combo Motionbuilder + Endorphin should be killer. Add to that Realflow for particles and Massive for crowds, make a common pipeline around that (hopefully, LW's SDK in the future) and voila......

Unfortunately I can afford neither Endorphin nor Massive.... But before making any additional investment, I'll wait and see how LW 9 could be THE Pipeline insofar as it still has a great modeler and an awesome renderer.

krimpr
08-16-2005, 08:42 PM
Syntheyes. Too cool for DV/LWS synch. Inexpensive for such a powerful app too! :)

Jarrede
08-16-2005, 09:00 PM
I'll wait and see how LW 9 could be THE Pipeline insofar as it still has a great modeler and an awesome renderer.

I'm waiting as well, but I feel that Modo can soon outclass it's Modeler, and (if only Fprime could do network renders) I used to be happy with it's renderer, it still pulls some weight, just not as much as it used to.

Newtek should incorporate the ASA buffer saver plugin directly into the render output panel, cause I can't seem to get it working on the farm.

Tee Double U
08-17-2005, 01:21 AM
Piranesi, Darktree, Combustion real flow, Photoshop, X Frog, MAX, Painter

webhead
08-28-2005, 08:24 PM
After seeing some of the features that Vue Espirit has:
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/products/vue5infinite/ I am beginning to think Vue will be a great compliment to my Lightwave 9 upgrade. I really like the features of being able to create wind and customize trees. Add tighter integration with Lightwave, and nice backgrounds for animations should be much easier. Can't wait to get my hands on LW9 and Vue. :bounce:

NanoGator
08-28-2005, 10:01 PM
I cannot imagine using Lightwave without Photoshop or After Effects. After Effects for multi-pass rendering and even post effects. The ability to split things up into layers and reassemble them with AE has dramatically altered my workflow. Not too long ago, I did a shot that involved rendering hypervoxels against an FPrime rendered background. Even managed to sneak the shadows in there. :)

mlmiller1983
08-29-2005, 01:44 AM
I use Lightwave along side Maya, Cinema 4D, Modo, Photoshop, After Effects, and Premiere Pro. Other programs I hope to purchase in the future is MotionBuilder, 3D Bodypaint, Combustion, and Mirage.

mlmiller1983
08-29-2005, 01:56 AM
A combo Motionbuilder + Endorphin should be killer. Add to that Realflow for particles and Massive for crowds, make a common pipeline around that (hopefully, LW's SDK in the future) and voila......

Unfortunately I can afford neither Endorphin nor Massive.... But before making any additional investment, I'll wait and see how LW 9 could be THE Pipeline insofar as it still has a great modeler and an awesome renderer.

WOW. Interesting and powerful programs but CRAP are they expensive.

Emmanuel
08-29-2005, 04:31 PM
Please forgive my ignorance, but why is point oven necessary when using messiah:animate with LW ?
From the video I saw, messiah hooks into LW pretty well ?

NanoGator
08-29-2005, 05:18 PM
Please forgive my ignorance, but why is point oven necessary when using messiah:animate with LW ?
From the video I saw, messiah hooks into LW pretty well ?

I'm completely out of my element here, but I'd imagine it's because Messiah may have a different idea about how to deform bones than LW does.

Actually, I mean that as more of a question than an answer. I'm curious, too. :)

DMack
08-29-2005, 05:45 PM
Hi,

It's not strictly necessary to use Point Oven Pro as, yes, messiah animate does 'connect' to LW. However as your LW scene and your messiah scene gets larger and larger, it is beneficial to separate them. The cool thing then is that you only have one app open, both scene files are less complex and therefore less likely to 'break' and the whole thing requires much less memory/processor overhead. I use messiah Animate for ALL of my CA work, bake the deformations using POP and then use PO reader in LW to 'connect' the two. Once the LW scene is set up with the characters reading from a PO file (an MDD in truth) then when you do a tweak in messiah Animate and re-bake, the LW scene is effectively automatically updated (as it is refereincing the PO file that has been changed). It is the best way of working (other than having the two completey and utterly integrated). It works really well for me and opens up the truley awsome powerof messiah animates 'setup' mode, expressions, armatures and blisteringly fast OGL/expression effect calculation update.

I have to say, for CA work, messiah Animate is THE best complimentary app for LW. (No I don't work for them!)

Hope that helps! :thumbsup:

Chewey
08-29-2005, 08:59 PM
The Beaver Project. Allows one to go from Lightwave to Maya (animation, rigid and softbody dynamics, particles +) and back to Lightwave for rendering, or stay within Maya and render with PRenderman or Mental Ray.

http://www.thebeaverproject.com/

http://www.thebeaverproject.com/movies/AOM/kb29_layers.avi

alvin-cgi
08-29-2005, 10:17 PM
I hope LW9 will "solve" the CA problem...:shrug: so concentrate everything within LW, no more "COMPLIMENTARY APPS: Animation" needed... :scream:

PixelInfected
09-05-2005, 06:20 PM
zbrush is my 2 cents, amazing application to sculpt and prepare wonderful organic models, and now for 9 newtek told that optimize its integration between two application.
i just use both and work enought fine, but new and better normal shader, and subpixel displacement could help a lot.
try it and you are infected by its artist oriented features.

coffeefery
09-06-2005, 12:17 AM
I hope LW9 will "solve" the CA problem...:shrug: so concentrate everything within LW, no more "COMPLIMENTARY APPS: Animation" needed... :scream:

I love LW for what it is, but dabbling with other apps allows me to see how much LW could improve on its CA tools. I would love to see LW9 with better and easier CA setups. Hopefully, they will put up some video previews a.s.a.p.

Nemoid
09-06-2005, 07:27 PM
try it and you are infected by its artist oriented features.

yeah. "infected" is the right word !! nothing beats artist - like tools :buttrock:

ranhell
09-07-2005, 01:48 AM
my work flow: LW,photo shop,Bodypaint3D,After effects,Premiere,Cubasis VST4,Cleaner5. LW Plugins Fprime, Sasquatch....:)

grafikdon
09-08-2005, 03:18 PM
It's Lightwave, Photoshoop, After Effects, Premiere Pro, Aidition.

It's been a tough battle with Lightwave cloth simulation and crowd animation, other than that, everything else is fine. In a few months I'll grap a Vue for terrain generation and Max for Cloth Simulation and Crowd animation...that'll do the trick for me.

I just hope I will be able to load back the scenes with all the cloth simulation intact back into LightWave for final rendering. I am loving Max's new improved character animation feature and might end up modeling and surfacing in Lightwave, animating in Max and rendering in LightWave.

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