Discreet Ships First Training DVD

[gnarlycranium]

For 130 bucks?!! That's criminal! No wonder the user manuals stink so bad, they want us to buy THAT stuff instead... :annoyed:

*edit as I suddenly realize who I posted that reply TO* I mean.. um..... Hi, I'm a clearly disgruntled self-taught MAX user frustrated with my own lack of tutelage and funds. :D Why IS it so expensive?

[Shaded]

Ok...yeah. $130 is kinda ridiculous.

[born2Bbad]

Ok... tell me what is "reasonable"

Thanks

Roger C.

[sireel]

Well maya has a update tutorial DVD for what 20 bucks? I'm wondering how good this DVD has to be for Discreet to charge 6+1/2 times the amount. I would easily pay 50 bucks (2.5 times the amount) but 130 c'mon.... the last thing Discreet needs to do at this point in the game is present themselves as money grubing cheapscapes...
I've always loved Max but Discreet to me and many other I talk too has always come off as the rich old man that tries to sell a dead bird to a poor blind kid for 100 bucks.... this DVD's cost is not helping that image.

[Gonzo The Great]

"Born To Be Bad". Funny. That's I think of 3dsmax too!

[born2Bbad]

Alias does produce 1 DVD at 19.95. It also produces several others ranging from 70$ to 200$. If you buy the Maya API Devcon proceedings that will cost you 1295$.

Thanks for the info on what you fee is resonable, I'll keep it in mind when we do our budgets to more of this kind of stuff. Believe me no one here is getting rich over this stuff.

[Shaded]

I guess I owe you an apology - didnt mean to sound harsh back there. Should have thought it out before answering. I honestly have very little idea what regular training dvd's retail for - and this is the first one Ive actually seen advertised. So the price just jumped out at me.

[grandmaster00]

Originally posted by born2Bbad
Alias does produce 1 DVD at 19.95. It also produces several others ranging from 70$ to 200$. If you buy the Maya API Devcon proceedings that will cost you 1295$.

Thanks for the info on what you fee is resonable, I'll keep it in mind when we do our budgets to more of this kind of stuff. Believe me no one here is getting rich over this stuff.

well sir eel was quoting like for like - ie. a dvd showing NEW FEATURES !!! - the comparitive price - maya 4.5 $20 - max 5 - $130...... seems in keeping with the rest of the discreet pricing policy, especially since maya now has bundled mental ray.

Max is running out of 3rd part scripts to licence and bolt onto max and seel as the latest version, so whats the next move ? what plans have u got to rip off devoted max users who have stuck with discreet for a few versions now, hoping that the next would would do something innovaive instead of just borrowing from the market leaders or licensing 3rd party scripts etc. Heres hoping that the rewrite max 6 (maximus ? maximum ?) rumours are true or im sure that by the next version you will have many many less upgrades with people switching to maya, lightwave or cinema4d ,which all at the moment are kicking max's ass for value. discreet are lsoing a lot of credibility among their user base, fed up at being fobbed off with half assed updates. When ARE you gonna employ mr bobo and inject some real innovation into the max dev team lol.

[-JT-]

3D buzz gives away free training videos, and they seem to be quite good too...
It's in every 3d company's interest that the users have an easy learning curve. Funny enough, the good training comes from the users themselves, and for free (look at micher roger's website for example : http://mr2k.3dvf.com/ , his tutorials help plenty of max users a lot better than the ones from discreet).
The idea of training dvds is a good idea but those dvds seem expensive.

[Groovedog]

I own a few of the Gnomon training video's which sell at around 50-80$ and have over 100 minutes of training material.

They are pretty thorough and I feel expand and give examples of concepts and workflows discussed only briefly in the manuals.

[JBruckner]

Maybe it might be an idea to have an sample on the page so people dont have to go and blow dollars on a cd, and what is this talk of a rewrite? and how long>?

[grandmaster00]

i suspect we wont hear another reply from di$$$creet in this thread, sorry for bein a bit full on guys but im only tellin the truth.

[born2Bbad]

Look guys I'm not going to discuss policy of discreet. I have no control over it.

Learning Tools Manager, means I manage learning tools, I'm not the general manager of the company, not in charge of development, not the 3ds max product manager.

The DVD we did on the new features is alomst 3 hours long, and done by one of our best trainers. I'll see if I can get something you can look at. I've looked at the market and the price seemed reasonable based on what I saw (not just alias, look at others).

Roger Cusson
Discreet Learning Tools Manager.

[sireel]

Roger your right this is not the place to discuss discreet policy. sorry if I opened the door for that. So in keeping with the topic:

- If you take a look at lostpencil.com they sell there training DVD's for 20 bucks and those are teaching something usefull like walk cycles and animation styles not just running through an updated features list. And they also have 2.5 hours of video time as well as source files, model, rig, and animations.
- Maya as we mentioned before sell there update dvd for 20 bucks. I didn't see the DVD but I'm assumeing they cover all of the updated features same as discreets. I don't know about there other training DVD's but update dvd vs. update dvd the cost difference is HUGE you have to admit.
- 3D Buzz gives his away for free. Now I know if you want to make money you can't be doing it this way but you have to factor this into your calculations. Question "If someone can get expert training videos (DVD or not) for free from an instructor in the subject who teaches real world scenarios and usefull pertenant information why would they spend $130 on a update training DVD?" Whats makes your product so special? What will make people want to do to discreet for training? Its a tough market and you don't win the crowd by pricing your training stuff by what YOU think is reasonable you win the crowd by pricing it at what the crowd thinks is reasonable.
- Books. Inside 3DS Max 4, 3DS Max 4 Magic etcc.... (do a search in amazon.com for 3DS ) . These are all priced for under 50 bucks and they all come with the reading materials, video clips, and max files. I know these are not video tutorials but this is also part of your competiition. People would sooner buy three for four of these books than spend 130 bucks on a dvd that shows you the new addiditons to Max.

Discreet would do well to take this weird time in the industry as a challenge in innovation not only for there products but with their training. Put up some free video tutorials for on the website, even just video excerpts of the free online seminars you guys have been having, hell just update the tutorial section for 3DS Max on discreets website to at least say "Nothing new" at least to show people that you guys know its a joke and you are doing something about it or just remove it completely. I would even say stop doing the free online/phone seminars and divert that money towards cheaper training material or downloadable video tuts. There are TONS of different things you can do to get the crowd interested in training and if Discreet wants to stay on top of things they will focus on training.

Big companies might not have a problem with shelling about the bucks for training but as I understand it Discreet is targetting the smaller houses and individual users (as seen in the "trade in your copy of Maya or Lightwave for 3DS Max for real cheap" campaign) and this target group does NOT see 130 a reasonable price for an update dvd.

[grandmaster00]

i must say that Buzz's cd's and tutorials seem excellent for beginners and that the ones done for the 3d world mag are also excellent, more advanced tutorials andhis knowledge is certainyl not limited to max. Sir Eel , congratulations on your elegant reply, you mentioned everything i was next going to say, plus more... i need say no more except, does di$$creet care anymore ? (or did they ever ?)

[BlazeSquall]

When do you expect this to go to Kazaa?

KIDDING!

I think it's a great idea that Discreet is doing this and I look forward to the Character Design DVD.

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