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Rebeccak
08-10-2005, 12:00 AM
NOW OPEN!!!

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/Hong-Ly-Announcement.jpg

Welcome to the Inaugural thread of the Open Figure Drawing Workshop!!! I am truly excited about this, and am very grateful to good friend and old Art Center chum Hong Ly, with whom I spent many hours in the Open Figure Drawing Workshops from 6:45 - 9:00 pm back in our art school days.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/hong_work.jpg


I had the idea for this thread, but was unsure how to procure decent photographs ~ but, having reconnected with Hong in LA during SIGGRAPH after many years, I discovered that he was an accomplished photographer who already had taken model reference photos for use on his website, dedicated to Character Art and Design, at which Hong is an accomplished professional. It is lucky for us here at CGTalk that Hong has agreed to be a part of this community and to allow us to use his photographs as model reference. Thank you very much, Hong! :)


>>RULES FOR THE THREADS<<

1. Photographs are the property of Hong Ly and are copyrighted as such.

2. Photographs are NOT to be used for ANY other purpose apart from Figurative Drawing Reference for this thread on CGTalk.

3. The drawings created from the photo reference provided here MUST be TASTEFUL, SINCERE, RESPECTFUL, and for the purpose of serious study of the human figure. Those who post silly, disrespectful, or tasteless work will have their posts deleted immediately
and will no longer be allowed to post on this thread. Hong Ly, Rebecca Kimmel, and Roberto Ortiz reserve the right to determine which drawings are considered to be in poor taste and / or disrespectful to the model/s, who have generously agreed to allow their images to be used on the condition that they be used for the tasteful and serious study of Figurative Art only.

4. There is NO TIME LIMIT for posting on this thread.

5. New threads containing new photographs will be posted on a bi-weekly basis, depending on the number of photographs available.

6. There is NO LIMIT to the NUMBER of posts an artist may make. However, we ask that you post only your BEST WORK, even if it is considered unfinished.

7. Artists who post comments and critiques of other artists' work on this thread must be RESPECTFUL, POLITE, and offer CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. Flaming will be NOT be tolerated, and constitutes dismissal from this and other threads.

8. Hong Ly has generously offered his time to critique work on occasion; however, with a full-time job and a demanding schedule, he will not be able to answer everyone's requests for assistance. He has agreed, however, to stop by the threads when he has time to offer comments and critique. Hong is a great guy and incredibly generous ~ however, please respect his time. I will also be offering the occasional comments / critique ~ however, the main focus of the Open Figure Drawing Workshop threads should be on Group Critique and interaction. :)

9. ANY MEDIUM or STYLE may be used: Traditional or Digital Drawing or Painting, Gestural, Sketch, Finished Render, etc.

10. EDIT: 3D Artists who wish to use the reference for 3D models are free to do so. I just ask that you post your work here as well as in any 3D forum in which you post your work.

11. Please limit the SIZE of your POSTS to 600 pixels WIDTH x Appropriate pixel LENGTH. No huge posts, please!

12. Have fun, enjoy, and create great art! :)

LINKS to Photographs: WARNING: Nudity:

MODEL PHOTOGRAPH 1. (http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/characterdesigns005_done.jpg)

MODEL PHOTOGRAPH 2. (http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/characterdesigns009_done.jpg)

Good luck! :)

Hong's Website is Now Open! (http://characterdesigns.com/)
http://characterdesigns.com/





~Rebeccak and Hong Ly

ScottJohnson
08-10-2005, 03:06 AM
http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/1268/figure0010fi.jpg
A sketch painting, 2 hours or so. Thank you for the reference :)

Rebeccak
08-10-2005, 03:14 AM
ScottJohnson,

Wow, no way! Already! thanks for being the first to post. :)

Will you be working more on this piece and reposting? Bear in mind that there is no time limit.:)

~Rebeccak

ScottJohnson
08-10-2005, 03:35 AM
Yeah, definitely. I didn't have a lot of time tonight to work, but i wanted to get started. I appologize if it isn't finished enough.

Rebeccak
08-10-2005, 03:47 AM
ScottJohnson,

Oh, no apologies necessary!! :) I'm thrilled that you are the first to post. :) I just think it's generally more useful when someone tells me to go a bit further than to tell me my work is beautiful and finished. ;) ~ I hope you didn't take this the wrong way! :) Your work is really cool, but I just like folks to post updates of their work as they go along. You'll see this all over the forum ~ as folks work more on their pieces, they post updates ~ it helps everyone else to learn. That's all I meant. :)

EDIT:

As an example, check out Slux's continuous posts on the Lesson 003 thread here (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=259291&page=1). Everyone who has posted so far is listed in Post #2, under Individual Posts. Slux had a great piece to begin with, but just kept refining and refining until his piece was darn near perfect. :) I'm not suggesting everyone post this many, I'm just pointing Slux out as an example of someone who refined his work over time, which was really cool to see. :)

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
08-10-2005, 04:56 AM
Well, admittedly so far mine sucks, but hopefully with time and shame will come improvement. Here goes. :)


So far she's got a seal flipper for a left arm, but with the addition of shoulders, she should be ship-shape. :)


Shame me, people. Do your worst! :)

EDIT: Ok, I couldn't bear the suckiness of my piece, so au revoir! :) It will be back up when my ego has recovered. ;)

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
08-10-2005, 05:39 AM
Stahlberg brought up a great point, which is that 3D artists ought to be able to post as well. BY ALL MEANS, if you are a 3D artist and wish to create models based off of the photo reference here, DO SO! :)

Thanks to Steven for pointing that out. :)

~Rebeccak

Dark3D
08-10-2005, 05:41 AM
Heres my try, quick sketch Be for I go to sleep.

http://www.dark3d.com/Gallery/images/page_LePose2.jpg

Rebeccak
08-10-2005, 05:42 AM
Dark3D,

Nice work! I'm off to snooze happy land myself. Thanks for posting! :)

~Rebeccak

Stahlberg
08-10-2005, 07:11 AM
BY ALL MEANS, if you are a 3D artist and wish to create models based off of the photo reference here, DO SO!
Okay, in that case, here's my first test, obviously unfinished, if I get time I'll try to work some more on this

http://androidblues.com/RKtest1.jpg

edit:
Maya, about 1 hour, Photoshop (smudging hairshadow), about 1 minute

Squibbit
08-10-2005, 07:53 AM
photoshop, stahlberg? real nice work




.

kaylon
08-10-2005, 08:53 AM
Just on my way to work, but really want to make an effort with this...my life and figure drawing is somewhat lacking due to the fact I've never taken classes... Here is a quick study 15 mins...


I know I have proportion probs...I My mind tends to draw what it thinks it see's and actually not what it see's..hopefully I will improve :)..all C&C welcome, rip me appart.

Gotta go..gonna be late :)


http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/1552/femaleseated014ms.jpg

K.

Stahlberg
08-10-2005, 09:07 AM
Squibbit: thanks.. no that's 3d

Squibbit
08-10-2005, 09:13 AM
ah, that's what i guessed at first,
but then one never knows with talents like u .. :)



.

default-rol
08-10-2005, 10:41 AM
Want to draw...but must do work first....:sad:

lunat1k
08-10-2005, 11:49 AM
This workshop is coming along nicely.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/devalvatora/open%20figure%20drawing/ofd-01.jpg

Rebeccak
08-10-2005, 12:13 PM
Stahlberg,

Schweet Holy Moly! And I thought he was kidding! ;)

Awesome!!! It is not often you get a Maya Master to post on your thread... :applause:

kaylon,

Ooh, the back looks really good so far and I like the way the hair is smudged. Thanks for posting! :)

Squibbit,

Coolness, no? :)

default.rol,

Oh no!!! Yep, I understand... :) *Guilt* *Guilt* *Guilt* ;)

lunat1k,

Looks good so far, I would just offset the curves more to emphasize volume. :)

~Awesome work so far guys! :thumbsup: This thread is so going to rock!

~Rebeccak

Squibbit
08-10-2005, 12:44 PM
plip plop

http://www.saunalahti.fi/panuom/PoseLady1.jpg

uh, sorry i never read the rules so if there's something wrong with it, just take it away

Stahlberg
08-10-2005, 02:19 PM
Okay here's the update, I had enough time for a few more hours. Maya, linear Smooth Proxy, about 3600 polygons unsmoothed.

http://androidblues.com/RKtest2.jpg

http://androidblues.com/RKscreen1.jpg

Good work you guys!
edit: Squibbit nice one! :)

Rebeccak
08-10-2005, 02:54 PM
Squibbit,

You did that just for this thread? *cries* Fantastic work!!! :thumbsup:

Stahlberg,

Crowd emits *Ooohs* *Ahhhs* :) Awesomeness! Thanks for posting the wireframe too, that's super cool to see. This is great! I'm really happy to see 3D stuff here as well! I think it probably would make for great practice to continuously pose models in positions matching photo reference. Schhhhweet!!!

*Caveat*

Ok, guys/gals, I don't want you to think that this thread is for pros only. :) It's great to have Stahlberg post his work, but don't let that scare you away from posting your own.

This thread and future threads are for beginners and professionals alike. I'm sure Stahlberg would be willing to offer comments were he asked nicely and given brownies. :)

~Rebeccak

AmyScott-Murray
08-10-2005, 03:04 PM
Is this thread just for digital art, or will it be ok to scan paper drawings and post them?
I'm not that great with my tablet yet (although this will be a good chance to practice) and I find I get better results by working at least initially on paper.

Thanks!




[gasps at the awsomeness of squibbit and stahlberg]

Rebeccak
08-10-2005, 03:29 PM
amy_517,

You can absolutely use any traditional or digital medium of your choice! In fact, I love traditional work and like to see people post their traditional drawings / paintings. So absolutely please feel free to do so. :)

~Rebeccak

AmyScott-Murray
08-10-2005, 03:32 PM
Thanks for the quick reply Rebecca, I shall get to work then :thumbsup:

Stahlberg
08-10-2005, 04:07 PM
I'm sure Stahlberg would be willing to offer comments were he asked nicely and given brownies.
Mmm... brownies...

Rebeccak
08-10-2005, 04:11 PM
*laughing hysterically* :scream:

Wow, if I'd known it were as simple as offering brownies to lure a Maya Master into posting, I would have checked out the Betty Crocker aisle sooner! ;)

But seriously, Senor Stahlberg, please feel free to jump in and offer advice on this and any thread in the Anatomy forum. :)

~Rebeccak

EDIT: Just don't scare away the noobies! We likes the noobies. :) Was that creepy? :scream:

AmyScott-Murray
08-10-2005, 04:13 PM
Mmm... brownies...

Rebeccak
08-10-2005, 04:23 PM
hahahaha!!! Ok, enough spamming. Back to work with ye! :)

~Rebeccak

Squibbit
08-10-2005, 05:04 PM
Squibbit,
You did that just for this thread? *cries* Fantastic work!!! :thumbsup:


:p

referring to my earlier post, "Plip Plop"
is the sound of random texture layers
falling on a crappy sketch :)


.

Libor
08-10-2005, 05:22 PM
here´s my try (I´ve choosen the first pose)

http://www.cgart.org/Content/temp/workshop01.jpg

belail
08-10-2005, 05:36 PM
Be quiet Subconcious, I'm showing people my stuff. You stay out of it for once.

This was kind of a challenge for me, I'm not used to working with pictures that are this saturated or this blown out. I found it really really hard to suggest surface angle on some of the places that are bright any value change is microscopic.

I was trying to apply what I could remember from the life drawing short course I did way back and the useful words of Richard Schmid since I haven't used them in a while and I've been wanting to get back into using human reference lately. I felt like a bit of an idiot trying to measure of the screen with a pencil though. It seems to work better when using a whole person and a much bigger piece of paper. Still seem to be having trouble picking colours, I think my picture should be redder.

I did this at the same size as the original photo so you'll have to excuse any aliasing that appears. Unfortunately my favourite Painter brush (the oil pastel) doesn't like being used at small sizes and produces jagged lines.

Anyway, the pencil version, which I think may have taken longer than it should have (hour maybe). My own fault for wanting it to be accurate...and being slow.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v16/Azazel/01_figure_pencil.jpg

And the painted version. I'm hoping to go back for the background later but its 2am here and the heavy metal's starting to wear off.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v16/Azazel/01_figure_col.jpg

Rebecca, are any more of the pictures going to have that watermark on them? I can understand the reason for it being there but it kept throwing my ability to pick the value in some areas. I could just be being picky though, its happened before.

Rebeccak
08-10-2005, 05:41 PM
Guys, I don't want to be the only one posting comments here, but I will respond to belail's question about the watermark. The photos are the property of Hong Ly and he did put the watermark on the photos for good reason. I can ask him about maybe reducing their opacity or something, but I respect his right to copyright his work in the manner which he feels is appropriate. It's amazing in the first place that he has procured permission from the models to post their images online; the potential for abuse of intellectual property is great, and photos of nude models? There's just too much risk involved for these images NOT to be watermarked in some way.

In truth, I was working from the images last night, and at first, the watermarks bothered me. But after a while, I just stopped noticing them.

I'll ask Hong about it though. :)

Great posts, by the way! Keep up the great work guys!!! :)

~Rebeccak

Zephyri
08-10-2005, 06:47 PM
wow.. all of these are great, belail, your colour one is coming on really nicely, and libor the linework on your sketch s lovely, though the shading in the crook of her back looks a little flat. You may well be working further on it, so ignore my comments if so.
Squibbit, gorgeous gorgeous work on the texture, it almost looks like something straight out of the old renaissance, were it not for the demon wings and horns. Her left leg (as we look) seems to be short in comparison to her thigh, but there is some foreshortening, so maybe thats to blame.

And now I'm rambled over everyone elses, here's my effort, done in PS 6 with a wacom in about 2.5 hours, working with only three colours and the background colour. I'm moderately happy with it and really enjoyed the experience. And rebecca... I really wanna see your efforts too missus... get posting! :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/xephyri/cgtalk%20images/figurative.jpg

Rebeccak
08-10-2005, 06:58 PM
Zepyhri,

*competition...too...stiff...must...call...for backup...* :D

Great work!!! :thumbsup:

~Rebeccak

augustus
08-10-2005, 07:55 PM
I hope WIPs are OK:

http://august.f2o.org/temp/characterdesigns005wip01.jpg

Rebeccak
08-10-2005, 08:10 PM
augustus,

Wow, starting to look really nice, the lower half of the body is really shaping up nicely. Please keep the painterly feel, and don't render the heck out of the thing. Your drawings have the same nice painterly quality to them which I personally prefer to a highly polished look (though it just depends on the piece).

Nice color sense too, you may want to offset all of the warm colors with just a touch of the cool here and there for contrast.

Great work so far, WIPs are fine with me so long as there aren't a zillion of them and they show real progress! :)

~Rebeccak

Ego
08-10-2005, 08:12 PM
Oi! I figured I'll never get any help if I keep chickening out. This was done with paper and H pencil. Background in charcoal. I'll keep working on it in photoshop during the workshop. Boy I cant wait for school to start so I can at least learn the correct way of doing these things.

http://www.queensoul.com/images/cgtalk/sittinglady.jpg

Rebeccak
08-10-2005, 08:20 PM
Queensoul,

*Does the wave* ~ Cool beans!!! Thank you for braving the horrible beasts who frequent these forums and posting your work! ;) ~Nah, everyone here is cool, so I'm really happy to see you post! :)

I'm going to withhold comments until you tweak a bit in Photoshop. Things change drastically, so I'm just going to bite my tongue for the time being. :) Looking forward to your update!

~Rebeccak

Ego
08-10-2005, 09:01 PM
I'm going to withhold comments until you tweak a bit in Photoshop. Things change drastically, so I'm just going to bite my tongue for the time being. :) Looking forward to your update!

~Rebeccak
bwaaa don't you dare :D That is the only reason I publicly humiliated myself. So you guys can show me how to make it better. A month ago I didnt even know I could get this far. So get to whispering to me :D

EDIT: I have noticed some definite areas myself. Like the legs look too short to me. I have measure it over and over again and it matches the picture but It looks wrong wrong wrong.

Rebeccak
08-10-2005, 09:04 PM
Anyone feel free to jump in here! :) Nudie picture reviews for me will have to wait until I go home. :)

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
08-10-2005, 09:46 PM
Queensoul,

I couldn't ignore the outraged sound of bwaaa! :scream: so I jimmied up a little review which I hope you will find useful. :)

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/Queensoul_REVIEW.jpg

My recommendation would be to trace, either traditionally or digitally, your image and refine and simplify your linework, not worrying about background shading yet. As you successively trace and simplify, you will gain more confidence with your linework ~ I can draw much more easily after that first initial sketch which is almost always for me a throwaway sketch, a way to get past that psychological barrier of fear. People often think that they have to get things right on the first try, but what is the principle behind that? Practice makes perfect, so always rework stuff you don't feel worked out the first time.

Something I did after I graduated was to retrace a LOT of my old crappy drawings (using tracing paper), just to soothe my ego and feel that I actually DID know something about drawing. What I found when I made the leap to digital art was that it wasn't a matter of me not knowing how to see, but it was a matter of the level of undos which you lack in traditional media, which, in some cases, can only be pushed so far. I found that doing a LOT of work which didn't always turn out so pretty in the end, wasn't so much building a Raphaelian portfolio so much as training my eye to see ~ such that, with the leap to digital work, I was so well-trained to work hard at getting results from the limitations of tradtional work, I was pleasantly surprised to find that indeed I was not retarded and could achieve much more and go much further digitally. Go figure. :) The long and short of it ~ don't be afraid to work and rework your drawings. The end result is not the purpose. The purpose is to train your eye to see. That is why they say that the better traditional artist you are, the better digital artist you will be. :)

~Rebeccak


Ah, my boss has gone home, I can critique nude pictures until the cows come home! Or something. :rolleyes:

:)

~Rebeccak

Blue-demon
08-10-2005, 09:53 PM
:sad: *bows down to your uber arty-good-ness

Rebeccak
08-10-2005, 09:59 PM
Blue demo,

Moi? Nah, it's all fake. :)

One thing I learned on the long road to artisticnicity *copyright 2005* is that I really wasn't that talented in comparison to my peers in school. This hit me like a ton of bricks, and trust me, I didn't take it well or gracefully. But it did force me to work hard so I didn't get my a** kicked on a daily basis. I would say that 90% of what I do is hard work, and 10% talent. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I only know a few lucky b******* ;) who don't have to work hard to get decent results. All the rest of us just have to do the work to get better. ;)

~Rebeccak

AmyScott-Murray
08-10-2005, 10:07 PM
Here's how I'm getting on - this is the first time I've used my wacom in anger, unless Warcraft 3 counts.

Please let me know if i'm going along the right lines.

Thanks

Amy

default-rol
08-10-2005, 10:10 PM
I would say that 90% of what I do is hard work, and 10% talent. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

~Rebeccak

Andrew Loomis says pretty much the same thing in Figure Drawing for all its worth. He claims he was "told to go home" after 2 weeks of art school. He also says that it annoyed him when people put down to talent, what infact was blood, sweat and tears on his part to climb the hill....

He is probably the most amazing illustrator I have ever seen - (or his idol Howard Pyle.)

Rebeccak
08-10-2005, 10:19 PM
default.rol,

That's cool, I didn't know that. Oh, trust me, I fully understand being completely intimidated by the guy or gal sitting next to you, happily creating a masterpiece seemingly effortlessly. It's funny, because years and years after I had graduated, and I finally felt as though I had had a right to attend my school in the first place, I realized that many of the most talented folks in my class had had loads of pre-college preparation at top-notch institutions which I did not have access to. I did attend an arts magnet program in high school, but it was nothing on the level of what some of my peers had attended. I just had to work harder for longer, and in the end, I think I've outstripped some of those for whom school was just too easy. That's why people who are older than you always tell you not to compare yourselves to others ~ that success is relative only to yourself, and is a long-term game. It's impossible in practice, but in theory, it makes sense. ;)

That's why I just encourage people to show their work, no matter what their skill level. Number one, anyone who posts their work is guaranteed to improve, because they will see their work in a new light when compared to the work of others. Two, no one learns well in a vacuum, and part of the great thing about CGTalk is that artists don't have to work in lonely isolation anymore. So I just encourage folks to utilize this as an opportunity to grow in their work without fearing that others will come down on them. So far, everyone has been great, and that has been greatly appreciated! :)

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
08-10-2005, 10:21 PM
amy_517,

Super schweet so far! Just hold that concentration...great stuff!!! :thumbsup:

~Rebeccak

Slux
08-10-2005, 10:36 PM
Hi
Ok here is my try ... its just old school paper&pencil nothing to fancy. Actually I'am quite dissapointed as it turned out :sad: .... hmmm never mind here is my result anyway. I may try it later again on the computer hopefuly it will turn out better ...

http://draw.sluxweb.net/figure_drawing001/scan-small.jpg

- Slux

theseraphimabove
08-10-2005, 10:42 PM
Slux,
I wouldnt be too disappointed with your result.. The only things about this drawing one could really say is that maybe the wrinkle in the skin on her left shouldner and her right side dont look quite right and that her butt seems to be sitting up off the pedestal just a bit. Other than that, it looks quite solid,

Seraph

AmyScott-Murray
08-10-2005, 10:57 PM
Slux - as well as what Seraph said, you could try softening the muscle structure around her shoulder a little, I think that might help.

Amy

Slux
08-10-2005, 11:00 PM
Slux,
I wouldnt be too disappointed with your result.. The only things about this drawing one could really say is that maybe the wrinkle in the skin on her left shouldner and her right side dont look quite right and that her butt seems to be sitting up off the pedestal just a bit. Other than that, it looks quite solid,

Seraph

Hi thanks for crits .. I know there is a lot of flaws ... frankly I was quite tired (lazy) to work on that more so especially rendering isn't very good :sad: ... I may try to rework it a bit but its unlikely but I will try it draw again in Photoshop so hopefuly it will be better :D

- Slux

Slux
08-10-2005, 11:07 PM
Slux - as well as what Seraph said, you could try softening the muscle structure around her shoulder a little, I think that might help.

Amy

hehe I may try it (we will see tomorrow :) )... well but its not easy to soften it in pencil ... its easy to darken it but not that easy to actually erase something what was already rendered ... that also reason why my Photoshop pieces are usualy better because its really easy to fix all flaws :) but I'am just beginner so there still may be some hope for me :scream:
btw thanks for your concern I appreciate it :)

- Slux

DiogoCarneiro
08-10-2005, 11:09 PM
Hi! First, my english is very bad, sorry :(

So.. here is my stretch:
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/5711/workshop3vx.jpg

(Comment and redesign if it necessery plz ;) )
And I would like to say that I Loved the ideia of this Workshop!! Good work rebekka and hong ly!
I hope you continue posting more Workshops with Hongg Ly references!! The pictures are incredible!

AmyScott-Murray
08-10-2005, 11:24 PM
Diogo_bc - hehe mine are always the same with face and hands left to last :)
My only suggestion would be that perhaps her right breast should be a tiny bit higher up. Looking good though :thumbsup:

ryusen
08-10-2005, 11:32 PM
here's mine.. still have a lot to learn.. heheh.. great workshop.. thanks rebecca..

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/8496/nekkid0em.jpg

dbclemons
08-10-2005, 11:58 PM
Holy Cow! I've got a lot of catching up to do. Great work here folks! <<Crashing sounds as desk is cleared>>

-DBC

Rebeccak
08-11-2005, 12:11 AM
Slux,

Ooohhh...really nice so far. There are definitely problems, but I'm sure you can see what they are...it's a matter of the medium, so I look forward to seeing your Photoshop work as well! I hope that someday Wacom tablets will simulate the feel of paper, or somehow simulate the feeling of traditionally done work ~ we'll have to get those Wacom scientists working!

One thing I would note is the placement of the ear with respect to the side of her head. Look closely at the photograph and try to determine more accurately its position. It may be impossible to change traditionally, but digitally it should be no problem. :)

diogo_bc,

Welcome to the forum! Thank you for posting your work. Like I talked about with Queensoul's work, I would try retracing your drawing (using tracing paper or Photoshop) and SIMPLIFYING the linework. Post your new drawing and we'll critique that work as well! :)

ryusen,

Really nice painterly feel and use of subdued tonal hues. This definitely has the feel of a traditional painting, done on a burnt sienna background and gradually brought to the fore.

One thing I would work on would be the edges. Some edges, like those around the bottom of her buttocks, should be softer. There are edges around the hands that so far feel a bit too crisp, and I would try to soften those as well. I would really play up the contrast between edge hardness and softness to complement your great use of tonality in the painting ~ one place where you can especially exploit this is the shadow of cast on her left buttock, which should be a relatively hard shadow. You can contrast this with a softer edge of the lower part of her buttock which will increase visual interest.

And, though I know you're not finished, her left shoulder is getting a bit biggish. You might want to slim it down to match the size of her right.

Overall, once you refine the edges of this piece, it should be really great. Thanks for posting! :)

dbclemons,

hahaha!!! :) No time limits, no worries. ;)

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
08-11-2005, 01:57 AM
Ok, so here is my small WIP ~ my motto: when in doubt, blur. :) Be gentle, people. ;)

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/figure-3_small_3.jpg

~Rebeccak

theseraphimabove
08-11-2005, 02:57 AM
i really dont think its coming along so badly.. but i must concur... blur is a crap artist's best friend ^_^ looking forward to your finished piece... your work is awesome

seraph

Rebeccak
08-11-2005, 03:21 AM
theseraphimabove,

Lol, the blur tool is indeed a crutch, but I felt I should at least post something since everyone else has ;) and in its present state my painting is rather less than perfect ;).

Thanks for the compliment, and I hope my blur tool crutch will gradually fall away and I can run free like Forrest Gump! :scream:

~Rebeccak

allenatl
08-11-2005, 03:27 AM
Pencil sketch.

http://www.allen3d.com/acfigureworkshop.jpg

Alexandrite
08-11-2005, 04:12 AM
oooh! i need to get back into sketching/drawing before the uni year starts in september (worked my arse off all summer and didn't have any time at all :( ) and this is perfect! plus i can practice sketching digitally rather than scanning then continuing in Photoshop. so.. uh, here's my very rusty attempt at one of the sketches:

http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/5012/cgtalkfiguredrwsketch11uy.jpg

i know i messed up her hands heh.. but, comments and criticisms most definitely welcome and would be very appreciated.

the next sketch i will do, i think i will try to do either just volume and not outlines.. outlines i always do, and my Drawing teachers always try to wean me off them.. :P or i could try getting off the computer and using some good ol' charcoal for some bolder tones and shadows. i miss charcoal. hmmmmm i should go do the other one.. :)

rodia
08-11-2005, 04:38 AM
hi! i just wanted to try...i'm not very happy with the result...i'll try to do it better with the next photo.
i've painted with red and blue cause i don't know how to paint a nice skin tone :sad:...http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a359/damianelterrible/desnudo02.jpg

the contour lines are to strong...i don't know how to fix it.
be nice please :D

dbclemons
08-11-2005, 04:39 AM
Okay here goes. I would have posted sooner but I've been filling in her hair for the last half-hour. O-o Dang my wrist is dead! ;)

http://www.dbclemons.com/tutorials/workshop02.jpg

Pencil sketch scanned and cleaned up a bit in Painter where I was "brushing" her hair in. It's @ 18x24 inches.

-David
P.S. Allenatl - that one's great! The lines are lovely.

Stahlberg
08-11-2005, 04:50 AM
dbclemons, very nice! You've got the best feet so far... a really hard part, especially in this pose and view. Her left breast though (the lower one) seems a bit stiff, not as nicely flowing as the lines in other parts... upper body slightly too big but it seems it's on purpose, exaggerating those nice arms and luscious deltoid... :)

tateSrey
08-11-2005, 05:02 AM
Hey all,

Lurker coming out of the woodworks.
I was lucky enough to be in a workshop a month ago that Rebecca had helmed. She really knows her stuff. I'm a little bit green in figure drawing, but I've improved quite a bit-- in no small part thanks to her.

sorry... i posted some sketches, but i exceeded my bandwidth limit with the folks hosting the pics. i'm gonna try to set somethng up later this weekend.

~tate

BrittanyRichardson
08-11-2005, 05:12 AM
Great stuff, everyone :thumbsup:

here's a quick 30min Painter sketch:
I'm always looking for ways improve my figure drawing skills. This thread will be good practice.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v43/Brillustrator/001.jpg

Rebeccak
08-11-2005, 05:35 AM
allenatl,

Welcome to the forum!

Your lines are beautiful ~ I like the confidence with which they are executed, along with the parallel lines of shading ~ very reminiscent of old school Illustrators.

The main thing I find odd is that the right side of her rib cage looks a bit crushed ~ look at the left and right sides of the rib cage and consider the volume as a whole. As an average shape, the rib cage is rather like an elongated sphere ~ emphasizing the Opposing Curves of her figure will bring a bit more roundness and believability to her graceful form. :)

Alexandrite,

Welcome also. :)

Your drawing has a very nice, confident and loose gestural quality which goes nicely with the roundness of female form. I like that you've not tried to make an exact copy of the model and have tweaked the model's form to suit your drawing style. I would say that the right side of her rib cage is a bit flattish with reference to the left. I don't mind the gestural abbreviation of the hands as their style matches the rest of the drawing. Looking forward to seeing more work of yours! :)

rodia,

Why not so happy? I think you've done a good job of roughing in the form and of establishing a nice simplification of the figure. The left side of her body is particularly confidently executed, and you seem to have a basic understanding of the principle of Opposing Curves in the body which work together to create form. I would maybe lessen the saturation of your colors, but I think you should just continue working and definitely post your results! :)

dbclemons,

Wow! :applause: For a guy who just "cleared his desk" a few hours ago, you've really done a great job and have created a wonderful Golden Age Illustration style drawing a la Andrew Loomis. Beautifully executed hair and wonderfully natural expression in the face. Great job!!! :)

Stahlberg,

You must be new. Welcome brownie? :scream:

-Brittany-,

Hmm, I like the pastel quality to this piece. I'd really like to see where it goes! Remember that, for this thread, there is no time limit, so if you would like to continue with your piece and repost, please do so! :) Watch the proportion of her lower leg ~ it's small in relation to her upper leg ~ a good way to check the lower leg's length is to see where the foot falls in relation to the model's buttocks. I think once you start to blend your colors a bit more, this will really start to shape up into a nice piece! :)

~GREAT posts everyone! Keep up the good work! :)

~Rebeccak

allenatl
08-11-2005, 07:08 AM
Thanks for the comments and suggestions, Rebeccak.
I added a little more to give the rib area more definition. Let me know what you think.

http://www.allen3d.com/acfigureworkshop2.jpg

Rebeccak
08-11-2005, 07:31 AM
allenatl,

Just a quick review: :)

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/allenatl_REVIEW_Quick.jpg

Sorry, I'm super tired, so these lines are a little sloppy, but they give the idea. :)


I think you were drawing what you saw in the photo ~ the model's rib cage is rather flattened out in the picture. However, to convey more of a sense of the rhythm and flow of the model's form, I would suggest offseting the major curves of the body to establish volume, and to EXAGGERATE what you see by applying what you know about the human figure.

Thank you for resposting your work, and I hope you will continue to post more of your drawings! :)

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
08-11-2005, 08:00 AM
Meh, this is kind of sucky, but I figure, what the hell. :)

(deleted)

~Rebeccak

creativefx
08-11-2005, 08:54 AM
Hello everyone,

This is Hong Ly. I would like to thank Rebecca for giving her time in this forum. She too has a very hectic work schedule and yet she spends much of her time helping others and she does it all without monetary compensation (without pay). A big cheers for Rebecca.

Everyone here is doing an amazing job. I apologized for the overpowering watermark. I realized it was rather distracting and I will tone it down in the future. At the moment I am currently working a site devoted for artist resources (free high resolution textures, free high resolution figure photos etc). I’ll keep everyone posted.

Tips:

-Draw the whole figure and not just parts. I important that you lay down the whole form before you start rendering.

I tell all my students at Gnomon that the more you draw the better you’ll get (duh!) and it takes one thousand (or more) bad drawings to produce a good one. Time to get all those bad drawings off your back. So everyone lets starting drawing (or painting).

-Hong Ly

info@characterdesigns.com

Squibbit
08-11-2005, 09:53 AM
Ok, so here is my small WIP ~ my motto: when in doubt, blur. :) Be gentle, people. ;)

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/figure-3_small_3.jpg

~Rebeccak




this was so funny cause my visions been going from blurry to sharp to blurry again today
because of eye surgery and i didnt know if my eyes were acting up or not when i viewed this, hehe

ps.great pic ryusen!


.

dbclemons
08-11-2005, 11:44 AM
dbclemons, very nice! You've got the best feet so far... a really hard part, especially in this pose and view. Her left breast though (the lower one) seems a bit stiff, not as nicely flowing as the lines in other parts... upper body slightly too big but it seems it's on purpose, exaggerating those nice arms and luscious deltoid... :)

Thank you Steven. In Painter when I line it up with the photo, the torso is actually spot on. Her scapula flares out there so wide it exaggerates itself. Her left breast does drop a bit more though - good call, and I definetly gave her Wonder Woman arms. That left foot should curl in more too. Details, details...

-DBC

Having problems uploading the corrections. Here's an attached file:

Rebeccak
08-11-2005, 12:19 PM
Squibbit,

What are you doing looking at computer screens when your eyes are healing from surgery matey???

Actually, your eye doctor called me and said, psst, hey, kid, wanna mess with a client of mine? He looks like a pirate, 'aye, and if you blur your figure drawing, 'arrr, it'll just really f*** him up, 'arrr!!! :scream: Hope you feel better soon, Squib! :)

Tate!!!

For whatever reason, your post didn't show up for me until this morning, so I was pleasantly surprised to see it this morning. :) Thank you for posting these!!! It looks as though you are doing an awesome job, I am thrilled to see your work here. I'll try to do a review later today. :) Hope you will continue to post on this and other threads!!! :)

~Rebeccak

TheDagger
08-11-2005, 12:34 PM
This workshop sounds like a good place to learn and practise so I think I'll put some real effort into this one. I need to take a little break now but I thought to post a WIP image before that.


http://koti.mbnet.fi/dagger/model2v1.jpg

commodore
08-11-2005, 01:34 PM
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/713/pr0n11nj.jpg
Here's my bad attempt.

zhuzhu
08-11-2005, 04:25 PM
nice workshop idea! nice work everyone! my nude study here, i will do more later. (in SketchBook Pro)


http://usera.imagecave.com/zhuzhu/ofd01.jpg

Rebeccak
08-11-2005, 04:41 PM
TheDagger,

Good to see you here. :) Looking forward to seeing your updates! :)

commodore,

Wow, really nice!!! I'm happy to see you're taking Lesson 003 Shading to new heights! :thumbsup:
Definitely keep going with this and post updates!!! :)

zhuzhu,

Nice!! I think her thigh is a bit thick (right now it's about the same thickness as her waist), but there is always Artistic license to take into consideration. Great to see your work! :)

~Rebeccak

allenatl
08-11-2005, 04:51 PM
zhuzhu, really like your style on this drawing, especially the line work, but also the way you mix the techniques of lines and soft tones. My only critique is that the lower half seems slightly larger in proportion than the upper half.

Rebeccak, thanks for your helpful responses. And a special thanks to Hong Ly for these photo references.

Rebeccak
08-11-2005, 05:00 PM
allenatl,

No prob! :) Nice site, btw ~ I notice you have some really cool comic book style sketches there. Have you checked out the COMIC STRIP! threads in the main WIP section? Some of the comic book teams are doing some cool work! :) Ah, but you still have to post here too, tho! ;)

~Rebeccak

allenatl
08-11-2005, 06:09 PM
Thanks, Rebeccak. I don't get a chance to do much 2d work. I'm trying to focus mainly on improving my 3d modeling skills. Heck, you saw Steven's work. See what I'm up against! But a thread like this with the great photo references was too good to pass up. Perfect timing, too. It forced me to step away from the computer and do some old fashioned drawing.

Rebeccak
08-11-2005, 06:34 PM
allenatl,

Schweet! :) I'm happy we could pry you away from your computer...if only briefly! :)

I think a lot of folks on this forum are in a similar boat ~ working hard to up their 2D or 3D digital skills in whatever area, and after a while, it starts to be a grind. The thing that I love about traditional work, traditional drawing in particular, is that it (can be) relaxing and it forces you to slow down and think. I find that I have much more of an inner dialogue/voice when I am drawing than when I am attempting to model something in 3D. I'm not exactly sure why this is, but I think it's to do with the 1 degree of separation you have from a physical object in your hands when you are working purely digitally. Anyhoo, that's my two cents on this. Hope you find more time to draw! :)

~Rebeccak

TheDagger
08-11-2005, 07:04 PM
commodore: That isn't a bad attempt. Shading looks good on most parts. The leg could use some more work but I'm sure you know that already. Keep working at it and I'm sure it'll turn out great.

zhuzhu: That looks great. I can see from your brush strokes that you know what you are doing. Can't wait to see what you'll do next.

rebeccak: Thanks. I really need to practise anatomy so this probably won't be my last visit on these forums. And thank you for the effort you've put into these workshops and lessons. :)

--

Here's an update. This is probably the most advanced painting I've ever done. I spent the best part of the day working on it. I'm such a slow painter. But I'm sure I'll get faster with time.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/dagger/model2v4.jpg

Ego
08-11-2005, 07:13 PM
Thanks for the review Rebecca :D Am gonna redo this. And tweak a lot. :D. It really is exciting watching this thread.

Rebeccak
08-11-2005, 07:24 PM
Queensoul,

Great! I'm super stoked about this thread, this is something I think could really be a long-running thing similar to the Speed Paints thread on the main WIP 2D forum.

Do you guys think this should remain as just one massive thread, like Speed Paints? I don't want to create a new thread every other week, as after a while, you would end up with just too many threads. AND I'm not sure I want to create more confusing hierarchies within the Anatomy sub-forum by creating a sub-sub forum just for threads like this one.

So ~ it kind of looks like the one massive thread thing for now ~ tho what I dislike about that is that no one likes paging through millions of pages to see old work.

Any thoughts guys/gals??? :)

EDIT: Note:There will still be NEW MODEL REFERENCE on a bi-weekly basis, no matter what the format turns out to be. :)

~Rebeccak

Ego
08-11-2005, 08:09 PM
Well it might get confusing if it gets too cumulative. Maybe a fresh model once a week or two weeks , under a fresh topic will reinvigorate everyone.

commodore
08-11-2005, 08:28 PM
Thank you for your kind words rebecca and thedagger. I thought it was too bad to continue. I allready started on the second ref. After I'll finish that I'll work on with the first one.

Rebeccak
08-11-2005, 08:38 PM
Queensoul,

There will definitely be new model reference on a bi-weekly basis, no matter what the format of the Open Figure Drawing Workshop thread/s. :) I definitely realize that after two weeks, folks will need new Reference from which to draw. :) And I agree that a cumulative thread gets confusing...so maybe I'll create a new thread for the Open Figure Drawing Workshop 002 and then later, if there are too many of them, we'll move them into their own sub-forum or something.

commodore,

You're welcome! Trust me, nothing is too bad to continue, and your work is not 'bad' at all! :)

You know, the biggest mistake I ever made was trashing most of my school work after I graduated from college without documenting much of it. At the time, I was not a digital person at all, and I just kind of figured that it would be better to start all over again ~ I figured that the important part of my art school experience was the training I received, and not the actual work I created.

Of course I regret this now, because I could have seriously digitally reworked a lot of my old, heinously bad drawings and paintings with Photoshop or Painter, but, ah well. :)

At any rate, my point is that you can rework digital pieces forever, so there's really no such thing as a bad piece. Until you're happy with your work, it's just a WIP. Even if you look at the early stages of pro artists, you can see that their work looks wonky in the initial stages. It's natural. The mistake is to make things look too perfect from the beginning. You want to mass things in generally first, and then go for details.

Stick with it! There is a payoff in the end. :)

~Rebeccak

dbclemons
08-11-2005, 09:56 PM
FIGURE DRAWING FORUM! FIGURE DRAWING FORUM! C'mon! Who's with me? Yeha!

Squibbit
08-12-2005, 01:14 AM
traditional pencil drawing, i printed out the reference image so i could
look at it while drawing

http://www.saunalahti.fi/panuom/GirlPoseFish.jpg

Rebeccak
08-12-2005, 01:18 AM
And that is the Squibbit that we know and love. :)

(And, folks, that is as silly as a drawing of the model is allowed to get. Squibbit is...well, special in his own way...) :scream:

Squib, this is a cool drawing! The left side of her body is particularly well drawn. I hate to admit it, but I kind of like the fish the best! :D It's really awesomely drawn. :) The main crit I have for the figure is that her right arm looks as though it is coming from her bun and not her arm. But good god, man, don't do so much eyework until your eye heals!!! I will not be responsible for the blindness of the Squibbit!!! :)

~Rebeccak

Squibbit
08-12-2005, 01:33 AM
her right arm looks as though it is coming from her bun and not her arm

~Rebeccak

i thought you spotted a mistake


how do you like the line from Ransom?
i came up with it cause while drawing
i was remembering how Naomi Cambell
once held me hostage for seven years


.

Rebeccak
08-12-2005, 01:39 AM
*shakes head in disbelief and admiration somehow mixed together in one meatball of puzzled inquiry*

Ah, right, of course...she is of the hand bun family (not to be confused with the hand gun family), "Homino HandBunnus" is the Scientific name, I believe...I retract my earlier statement. I pronounce this drawing...Squibbit's!!! :beer:
Dear me, they really just don't prepare you in art school enough to encounter the likes of the one-eyed, multi-talented, and slightly off~kilter (but killer funny) Sir Squibbit. :wavey:

~Rebeccak

EDIT: Erm, Squib, did they give you anything, er, medicinal to soothe your lasik~recovery eye pain?

Rebeccak
08-12-2005, 02:21 AM
Ok, my last two attempts have sucked badly, so I sniffled a little like you do in the fourth grade (you know, like when you take several successive quick gasps of air) and tried again. I'll be adding the head, arms, and legs shortly to my so far headless torso:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/FigDrwgWkshp_1_small.jpg

~Rebeccak

BrittanyRichardson
08-12-2005, 02:32 AM
I rendered mine a bit more:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v43/Brillustrator/001_02.jpg

Rebeccak
08-12-2005, 02:38 AM
-Brittany-,

Hey, this is really shaping up! :) One thing I find funny about everone's posts is that nearly everyone without exception who has chosen the back picture has just gone straight for the buttocks first to render. :) So far, the lower half of the body is the most rendered and volumetric looking, and I would just say to keep going and to make the torso look just as volumetric and 'real'. I like your color pallette, pastel but not too pastel ~ you can really work a desaturated, darker background with a more saturaged, lighter figure to your best advantage.

Keep going, it's good to see your progress! :)

~Rebeccak

dbclemons
08-12-2005, 03:44 AM
A reworked version, this one all digital (Painter.)

http://www.dbclemons.com/tutorials/workshop02B.jpg


-David

dbclemons
08-12-2005, 04:12 AM
Some thoughts on future workshops:
I vote in favor of separate threads for each session. I think it's better organized that way.

I'd also like to see the occasional male model. We can pose too, you know. Well, not me.

It might be nice to have the occasional clothed model as well, or partially clothed, or costumed; fabric in there somewhere.
-DBC

Rebeccak
08-12-2005, 04:26 AM
dbclemons,

Beautiful work, and I can't wait to see the finished painting! :thumbsup:

I agree about the separate threads. If ever there were to be a sub-forum just for these threads, they could be moved easily, whereas 1 giant thread would be impossible to tease out into separate categories. I think I'll just keep the same naming conventions and call them according to number, ie, 001, 002, etc.

Male models, agreed. I am working on a deal with a friend of a friend of a friend who is a bodybuilder who wants me to paint his portrait. I am going to ask him if he would consider posing, either nude or clothed, for photographs for these threads in exchange for the portrait. Hong has taken photos of clothed models as well. Perhaps we can alternate photos, depending on availability, between female unclothed, female clothed, male unclothed, male clothed, etc.

You also just gave me a really good idea ~ on occasion, we should concentrate in these threads on specific features ~ for example, heads only, hands only, feet only, etc. That way we truly can use each other as models. That's actually a really great idea, because it will give everyone the chance to get to know one another as well. Or at least their feet. :)

For those of you who are good photographers (I am definitely not) it would be great if you could take some really nicely lit, in either a warm or coolly lit setting or nicely contrasty combination of the two, photographs of friends who would be willing to have photos of their features online ~ clothed, of course, unless your friends are really daring ~ features such as: hands, feet, arms, legs, heads/faces, ears, etc.

You can email me pictures at rebeccak4@gmail.com, and I will post these on a rotating basis. Pictures would have to come with some kind of written consent on behalf of the photographed stating that it is ok to post their images online. You should also put a copyright symbol and your name on the photos as they will remain your property.

Thanks much for the input, it is definitely appreciated. Please let me know if you have additional suggestions / ideas! :)

~Rebeccak

donseeg
08-12-2005, 08:25 AM
http://www.seegmillerart.com/images/figure%20study%2002a.jpg

I have been spending way too much time doing work I don't particularly care about. This sounded like a fun way to unwind a bit. My technique tends to be very similar to how I paint with oils in that I cover the whole image with a color or value to get rid of the white and then draw and paint over that. Here is the initial sketch. It is in reality about 3 times as big. I usually go for an overall statment working from the biggest curves down. I do not try and refine much at this stage since I have made plenty of errors that will need to be corrected as I proceed. If I produce a very refined drawing I go into the old coloring book mode of "trying to stay in the lines." This is not a good thing. As I start painting I will post some more. Thanks for looking, this is going to be fun.

Don
www.seegmillerart.com (http://www.seegmillerart.com/)

kaylon
08-12-2005, 09:20 AM
Wondeful Sketch (as always) Don.

Let me be the first to offer a warm welcome to you Don .. I have always loved your art and have found it very Insperational in the past. It is an Honour to be posting in the same thread as yourself and I do hope you stick around with us to offer some tips and crits your imput as with all the other fine artists here is a great help :).

Can't wait to see more....and Hopefully post more and Learn more :).

K.

Ego
08-12-2005, 11:04 AM
I almost just fainted!
Heeelllo Don! Welcome. Quite a pleasure to see you post here.

Rebeccak
08-12-2005, 11:49 AM
donseeg,

Awesome!!! I just met you at the Guerilla Studio at SIGGRAPH ~ I know you don't remember me, but Roberto (Ortiz) and I watched a bit of your demo on digital painting which was really cool. I actually just bought your book at a SIGGRAPH booth there. Wish I could have watched the whole demo, but SIGGRAPH was like an ADD kid's dream come true. Ha! :) Great to see you here, and it will just be oodles of fun watching your work develop. Oh, and *hint* *hint* feel free to post a little mini-tutorial on the main Anatomy forum ~ I guarantee the natives would be appreciative. :)

~Rebeccak

Ego
08-12-2005, 12:15 PM
donseeg,

Oh, and *hint* *hint* feel free to post a little mini-tutorial on the main Anatomy forum ~ I guarantee the natives would be appreciative. :)

~Rebeccak
me! me! me! The image I used as my avatar was made using Don's tutorial on watercolor in painting. It was my first completed drawing in painting with painter. Now I've picked up some more information I might go back and do the tutorial again with the same pic ;)

Hey Becca, your brownies must be really good. You keep reeling in the big guns. :D
You go girl!

Rebeccak
08-12-2005, 12:17 PM
I'm going to start rolling out cookies, cake, ice cream, donuts, and Starbucks coffee if the big guns keep rolling in! :)

~Rebeccak

Ego
08-12-2005, 12:19 PM
I'm going to start rolling out cookies, cake, ice cream, donuts, and Starbucks coffee if the big guns keep rolling in! :)

~Rebeccak
I got your back girl!

commodore
08-12-2005, 12:19 PM
uA reworked version, this one all digital (Painter.)

http://www.dbclemons.com/tutorials/workshop02B.jpg


-David
This looks very traced. The woman is too white IMO. Maybe too much contrast.

AmyScott-Murray
08-12-2005, 01:40 PM
Was having second thoughts about posting after seeing so much great work... but ok, here goes nothing :)

http://www.grannys-attic.co.uk/images/amy's/drawing3.jpg

All kinds of crits very welcome, be as vicious as you like as it's my first attempt (digitally)and I need all the help I can get. Thanks!

dbclemons
08-12-2005, 02:43 PM
u
This looks very traced. The woman is too white IMO. Maybe too much contrast.

Looks can be deceiving. No tracing involved. The contrast is intentional for it's current state, and I rather like it that way at the moment, but the original plan is for color tinting.

-David

Rebeccak
08-12-2005, 02:46 PM
amy_517,

Nice work so far!! I would just watch the proportion of her legs, which are short with respect to the rest of her figure. This is an easy Photoshop fix however that shouldn't take much effort to do. Watch the chin, too, as it looks a bit too large for her face. These are all tweaks that I'm sure will be refined with time ~ great to see your progress! :)

~Rebeccak

TheDagger
08-12-2005, 03:14 PM
Squibbit: You have a talent for making threads more entertaining. :D Nice drawing too.

Amy: That is a very nice attempt if you haven't done anything similiar digitally before. My first impression was that she looks thin and there is something funny going on with the back of her head. Those are pretty minor things though. If you draw her whole head without any hair on it, you'll probably see that there should be more hair painted towards her arm (on the back of her head) to make the shape of the head look more natural. Try mirroring the image too if you haven't done so already. It really helps.

The face and some other parts of the picture look really really good and you have a nice touch with shading. You certainly have the skill to make this a fantastic piece if you tweak the anatomy a little and keep on working. :thumbsup:

commodore
08-12-2005, 04:26 PM
dbclemons ur pro then. It looks so similar to the photo.

zhuzhu
08-12-2005, 04:29 PM
once again~~~! (in Photoshop 7)

http://usera.imagecave.com/zhuzhu/ofd02.jpg


WIP:


http://usera.imagecave.com/zhuzhu/wip1.jpg

dbclemons
08-12-2005, 04:47 PM
dbclemons ur pro then. It looks so similar to the photo.

Thank you. I try. There was a lot of digital clean up of the pencil lines to get it where it is.
-DBC

Zephyri
08-12-2005, 04:58 PM
Updated mine a little more. This is turning into a full blown piece!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/xephyri/cgtalk%20images/figurativeupdate.jpg

dbclemons, your work is quite astounding, the last post you made was just sublime, I loved the high contrast, yet she still feels full of weight and mass, not just linework.

amy 517: wow, thats your first digital piece? Holy moly, you must be destined for great things! As far as the proportional things rebecca mentioned, I often find placing the original picture under the file you're working on and clicking between the two windows often gives you an idea of where you're slightly off, almost like doing a really short animation flick book with two frames. If you do it quick enough, you'll start to see where you're off. Works for me on a mac OS9, anyhow, not sure how it would work on a PC, as my window minimisers don't send the file to the bottom of the screen.

and zhuzhu, I'm continually amazed at your digital works here, what impressed me most about this particular one is your knack for making the lines of her back, her shoulder blades and the creases in her skin with the edge of the colour. And rebecca... call for backup indeed. One look at that pencil sketch and my envy causes me to melt into a gooey puddle.

Kha
08-12-2005, 05:05 PM
Hi,

After many tries this is my first sketch worth posting :D. I'm not good at hand and feet drawing.... please, let me know if there are something else in need of fixing. Thanks!

http://img284.imageshack.us/img284/2052/figuredraw017cw.th.jpg (http://img284.imageshack.us/my.php?image=figuredraw017cw.jpg)

Kha

AmyScott-Murray
08-12-2005, 07:45 PM
Rebecca, thedagger and Zephyri : thank you very much for your advice and encouragement :) Crits duly noted and will be acted on. It's amazing how obvious problems like these are once someone points them out... i've been staring at the thing for so long I just don't see them otherwise.

I've managed something similar to what Zephyri suggested by putting the photo on a seperate layer on top in Photoshop and flicking it on and off - but i'm probably on thin ice here regarding allegations of tracing... what does everyone else think? (I'm not tracing it, just lining it up on top so I can see where my drawing is off).

BTW, i have used Photoshop before, but only for naff webpage buttons and things, and some simple textures for 3D stuff. As a first attempt at an actual digital painting, i'm fairly happy with it so far :) thanks Rebecca for the push to give it a go, and the lovely photos :thumbsup:

Ego
08-12-2005, 08:35 PM
I have made an update to my earlier piece. I wanted to post it before coloring it. I have enjoyed watching the posts you guys have made. Very talented people here. If it wasn't for Becca's encouragement I'd have just scurried back into my hole. http://www.queensoul.com/images/cgtalk/sittingladysmall.jpg

Rebeccak
08-12-2005, 09:02 PM
zhuzhu,

Nice! Her bottom is still a bit large, but of course I like your watercolor technique. Might I may make a radical suggestion? I think it might be good if you focused a bit less on the (beautiful) watercolor technique which you have developed, and go a bit more into linework. I only suggest this because I think it will make your lovely watercolor paintings that much better. Just a suggestion. :)

Zepyhri,

WOW!!! I just cannot wait to see where you go with this piece! Once you detail the wings, resolve the column and just generally work up this piece, it is going to be really nice. Definitely try to continue to work up the piece as a whole as you have done so far. Please continue to post your results! :)

Kha,

Nice work so far!! I think that the main thing that I would say at this point would be to try to make your lines a bit less stiff. Traditional work is harder to go back into and adjust than digital work, so I would suggest even doing another drawing of the same pose. The advantage is now you are familiar with the pose, and the confidence which you have gained from doing this first drawing will allow you to relax your lines a bit in a new drawing.
Hope to see more updates of your work!! :)

amy_517,

You are more than welcome, and I am glad to see that everyone here seems to really be benefitting from the group interaction and from seeing others' work! You know, with respect to the "cheating" thing, that line is really blurred in the digital age. Is it 'cheating' in 3D to create a perfectly rendered sphere in under a second? Not really, you're just using the medium as it should be used. Old Masters "cheated" by using grids. There have always been and always will be devices for "cheating" which help us to accomplish our work. I absolutely don't endorse tracing and trying to pass it off as your own work ~ THAT is cheating. Taking the occasional measurement, or tracing FIRST to have a general understanding of things or as practice, I actually endorse. So it's really up to the individual to decide where that line is, and how honest they wish to be. :)

Queensoul,

WOW!! I think you have gotten a great start with this! :thumbsup: Now, granted there are problems which others are free to give advice about. But I think your relative proportions are really decent. You have made her a bit shorter and stockier than the reference photo, but I am certainly a proponent of taking artistic license. Generally speaking I use the model as a vehicle for expression ~ I rarely if ever try to copy the model exactly. That is just me, and I love to see the fully representational work of others. The point is, do what you like, so long as you feel in control of the process.

Keep going with this. Save versions, and post your results!! :)

~Rebeccak

depleteD
08-12-2005, 10:59 PM
THis is a sweet freaking thread.
I just painted a photo, I think I will do this thread after.

-Andrew

TheDagger
08-12-2005, 11:45 PM
Zepyhri: That is starting to look really great. I love the wings and the athmosphere in the painting. I hope you'll take the time to finish it. :thumbsup:

--

I added a background to my painting and did some small changes here and there. All critique is welcome.

I'm starting to like this painting and I'll probably have to do a complete and somewhat similiar piece someday without relying this much on copyrighted reference photos. :) But now it's time for me to get some sleep. 1:45 am here. *yawns*


http://koti.mbnet.fi/dagger/model2v5.jpg

Kha
08-13-2005, 12:21 AM
Hi,

WOW, those digital paintings look wounderful! I hope one day be able to do one of these :rolleyes:.

Thank you Rebecca, I've tried a few times with colored pencil to avoid using the eraser, usually I draw more with the eraser than with the pencil :D!
This is what I've got so far... hope it looks better.

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/743/figuredraw024ei.th.jpg (http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=figuredraw024ei.jpg)

After so many drawings of the same picture, I think I'll be able to draw it again without the reference...:eek:

Kha

dbclemons
08-13-2005, 01:40 AM
I like this last one more, Kha. You've got a lot of expression in those lines and more variety in them. Keep it up.

amy_517, re: Photoshop "cheating" with layers, my thought on that is to avoid placing your drawing in a layer above it and flipping back and forth. Essentially, one of the main goals in figure drawing, in my experience, is to feel confident placing things where you think they should go. I feel you can learn that best, when using photo reference, by treating it as much as you would a live model as possible. I'd suggest setting up the image side by side with your drawing. You could use the grid, but I'd recommend a large grid size so it doesn't restrict you. If you still prefer a layer method, try making your marks first before you flip to the photo, and then see where you're off. Also, first just rough out the shapes to get the placement down, and then there's no need to flip back, you just "connect the dots." I think that way you train yourself to see things better and build your confidence more.

Zepyhri, thank you for the nice compliments.

-David

zhuzhu
08-13-2005, 03:17 AM
zhuzhu,

Nice! Her bottom is still a bit large, but of course I like your watercolor technique. Might I may make a radical suggestion? I think it might be good if you focused a bit less on the (beautiful) watercolor technique which you have developed, and go a bit more into linework. I only suggest this because I think it will make your lovely watercolor paintings that much better. Just a suggestion. :)

~Rebeccak

thanks,Rebeccak! this reply just what i need. i know my knowledge of [Artistic Anatomy] was not very well.so i am here.to practice more and more,not just show off or only accept the sweet praise.thanks for your suggestion! maybe i should forgot some "beautiful technique".pay attention to the basic drawing more.watch my next one,i will do it better!

dbclemons
08-13-2005, 03:42 AM
New colored version made in Painter:

http://www.dbclemons.com/tutorials/workshop02C.jpg
-David

AmyScott-Murray
08-13-2005, 12:02 PM
Dbclemons - lovely drawing. I love how it looks like a pencil and watercolour sketch.
I've been thinking about the photo layer thing, and come to the same conclusion as you - it's not cheating as badly as tracing, but i'm not learning much or training my eye either, so I won't be doing it in future. To clarify, as well, I didn't do it all along, I was a good few hours into the drawing before I wanted to see how far off I was. It's a kind of interesting thing to do afterwards, once you have decided not to work on a drawing any more, just to see if your aim has improved since last time.

augustus
08-13-2005, 12:12 PM
Thanks Rebecca :)

Not finished yet, but close:

http://august.f2o.org/temp/workshop01.jpg

Rebeccak
08-13-2005, 05:17 PM
depleteD,

Hey, great! Can't wait to see your work! :)

TheDagger,

I really like the emotional feel to this work, and I LOVE the ravens in the background. My suggestion would be to enlarge the canvas (not the image size) and allow room on the left side of the picture for her foot to fit comfortably within the frame.

An additional suggestion would be to introduce, at a later stage, some warm highlights to offset the coolness of the piece. I like the lovely blues you are using, but a hint of orange or a warm, slightly desaturated yellow here and there would help the picture to pop.

Also, I think her head/face are a bit smallish relative to her body proportions. That is a relatively easy fix in Photoshop, as you really only have to select her head/face, feather the selection a bit, copy merge, paste, enlarge, and blend. One suggestion would be to draw in a low opacity on a layer above your existing layer, a simplified outline of the head, which will give you a rough idea for placement and which you can later delete. Good luck, and looking forward to your results!

Kha,

Dang, unfortunately, I can't see your image ~ this is probably just me, as my home computer pulls these little stunts quite frequently. Hopefully I'll be able to see it later today on a different machine or on Monday at work. Thanks for posting, sorry for my computer's stupidity! :)

zhuzhu,

I just love your enthusiasm and the effort you have put into this forum! :) You are a great asset around here, and thanks for taking my comments graciously. I definitely look forward to seeing your future work! :)

amy_517,

Good thoughts. :) I think whatever you feel comfortable with doing is the right thing. :)

augustus,

WOW!!! :bounce: What a beautiful job so far!!! The hands are coming along really nicely, and the overall picture is just really shaping up great! :) My only suggestion would be to make her lower leg a bit larger. It's a judgement call on your part. I think her ankle falls a bit further back, as well as the foot tucked under her right leg.

The second thing I would recommend would be to introduce some cool highlights here and there, either in the figure, or in the background. Did you ever see the DVD of the movie Amelie? In the "Making of" bit they showed how they had a really beautifully lit warm glowing scene which was really orange/reddish in effect. They introduced a highly saturated blue (3D) lamp which just offset everything and made the scene work better.

Great job so far, and I really look forward to your finished piece! :)

~Rebeccak

Bizkit
08-13-2005, 05:28 PM
This is my drawing here.
It took me half past one hours to finish it.


http://www.1der4.net/v3/admin/htmleditor/uploadImages/Pic2005081358242.jpg

Rebeccak
08-13-2005, 05:40 PM
Bizkit and Kha,

Can you email me your images so that I can see them? Sorry for this.

My email address as listed on my website is: rebeccak4@gmail.com

Thanks, guys! Otherwise, I'll look at these on Monday on a less stupid machine. :)

~Rebeccak

Bizkit
08-13-2005, 05:56 PM
what a pity.
Ok,the email have finished.
But I can see the image in my computer.

augustus
08-13-2005, 06:08 PM
augustus,

WOW!!! :bounce: What a beautiful job so far!!! The hands are coming along really nicely, and the overall picture is just really shaping up great! :) My only suggestion would be to make her lower leg a bit larger. It's a judgement call on your part. I think her ankle falls a bit further back, as well as the foot tucked under her right leg.

The second thing I would recommend would be to introduce some cool highlights here and there, either in the figure, or in the background. Did you ever see the DVD of the movie Amelie? In the "Making of" bit they showed how they had a really beautifully lit warm glowing scene which was really orange/reddish in effect. They introduced a highly saturated blue (3D) lamp which just offset everything and made the scene work better.

Great job so far, and I really look forward to your finished piece! :)


Thanks :).

Hmm, yes, you're right about the the foot. Thanks again.

I have the region 2 DVD of Amélie, but couldn't see the blue light you mentioned. Extras are different maybe? Oh well, I'm trying to get Wong Kar-wai red more than Jean-Pierre Jeunet red anyway... :D

Rebeccak
08-13-2005, 06:14 PM
augustus,

You're welcome. :) Lol! I guess they just figured "blue lights" were just for the Yanks...ah, well! :scream:

Bizkit,

Thanks, sorry for that! :D

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
08-13-2005, 06:39 PM
Bizkit,

Ok, thanks for sending me your image! :D Lovely work!!! What kind of pencil are you using? It looks like soft conte pencil, but not sure. I think like everyone else who has drawn this pose, including myself, the lower half of the body (the buttocks and the thigh) is larger proportionally to the upper half of the body (the torso, arms, and head). Also, I think her lower leg is small relative to her thigh (but it's about the right size relative to her upper body).

Basically, the buttock and thigh could be a bit smaller. But, traditional work like this is hard to change. Would you consider doing a second drawing and posting it?

And, out of curiosity, do you work digitally at all? Would love to see more of your work! Thank you for posting! :)

~Rebeccak

Samanthie
08-13-2005, 07:10 PM
I worked on this sketch for about 2 hours...color pencil. It's not finished. I'm not happy with the feet. I'm really in awe of some of the sketches I've seen so far. :)

Ego
08-13-2005, 08:55 PM
Samanthie, I love colored pencils! Just recently got introduced to them and I think they are awesome. I paid so much for a prismacolor set here in Belgium and would you believe I just won a set of 100 prismacolor pencils from ebay for 7 dollars. HAHAHA. Though these are 'scholar' quality, I think they are good enough to practice with. Anyway nice work.

Becca, dont hate me but I give up on this one. No matter what I try, the girl still looks short. I work with grids. So I had printed the picture and grided it and my drawing paper. All the same size. Its the drawing that I scanned into photoshop; Beats me why she keeps looking shorter and shorter. hehe, maybe I got taken over by the spirit of Paul Gaugain :D

It also goes without saying that I had problems with the feet as well. beh :(
Oh well here's where I am. Just had to submit this before I got distracted with the upcoming Challenge.

http://www.queensoul.com/images/cgtalk/figuredrawingsmall.jpg

Samanthie
08-13-2005, 09:02 PM
Hi Queensoul, You have done a wonderful job with this. Good color and shading. Congrats on your pencil win! My pencils are prismacolor too. I have the 48 pencil set though one is missing..my son borrowed one and now I can't find it. He likes mine better than the crayola ones I bought for him.lol

Rebeccak
08-13-2005, 09:07 PM
Samanthie,

Good to see you here, thank you for posting your work! Indeed, it is exciting to see the great variety of work which folks are posting! :)

I will have time tomorrow to do a few drawovers, but for now I will say that you've done a good job ~ the one thing I always recommend to folks is to trace their work ~ either digitally in Photoshop or traditionally with tracing paper ~ as this always yields a cleaner result, and allows artists to simplify their work, thus giving them a better understanding of it along the way. After tracing, I recommend doing a second, freehand version of the drawing, using what you have learned from the tracing. If you have time to try this, I highly recommend it! I hope to see more of your work! :)

Queensoul,

You know, I really never minded the fact that the figure is stylized or different proportionally from the Reference ~ so long as the figure is proportional to itself, it works for me! :)

I think you have done a tremendous job, and this has come a long way from the initial sketch. In truth, if you were to continue with this piece, as I think you should, I would recommend saving a merged copy of this version, pasting into a new image, and starting anew ~ psychologically, somehow, this sometimes helps. Look at this almost as your base image ~ from which to gradually bring up midtones and highlights. I think frequently paintings "grow" due to the paintbrushes' roundness ~ you can try to keep this in check by drawing on a layer above your painting a sketch which is to be later deleted. This helps you to "stay within the lines" if this is indeed your goal.

Great stuff, and I hope to see you post more work! :)

~Rebeccak

Samanthie
08-14-2005, 02:02 AM
Thank you Rebecca for the helpful comments. I made the line drawing over my pencil sketch. I am coloring it in with the air brush. I can tell her neck is too short and I'm having a hard time with it. I'll have another try at it tomorrow. :)

monkwan
08-14-2005, 03:04 AM
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/FigDrwgWkshp_1_small.jpg




Rebeccak,
I read your opposite curves tutorial and followed your posts a lost(not all,but alot).
But I dont know why the way you draw is so classical like you draw a ancient people's body.
while the modern people are more smooth skin then what i see your drawing.
I am not trying to offend you, since I never go to formal art school for formal training. That is why I wonder.
I like the way that people draw in a modern way for modern people. You drawing is still awesome, don't get me wrong. My question is why we draw modern people like old school?
You drawing is great, but that doesn't mirror the image of the model?
Or obviously something i don't understand and hopefully you will clear my mind.
Thanks, again, no offense, just wondering...

Noiram
08-14-2005, 07:47 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v672/Tranoiram/Cgfig01.jpg

There is a lot of great work so far on this thread.
I really like zhuzhu watercolour like painting, nice colours. One thing though, and I believe that the same applies to my painting is that the back needs a more exaggerated curve to add movement.
here is my version of this model's back.

zhuzhu
08-14-2005, 10:27 AM
Noiram: thanks,but the last 2 sketch were not good enough,as rebeccak said,i must pay attention to the basic more.


once again~! (in openCanvas 3)


http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b355/zhuhaibo/Figure%20Drawing/ofd03.jpg

Bizkit
08-14-2005, 11:39 AM
Zhuzhu: Wow!~ This work is wonderful~
especially the details.

Bizkit
08-14-2005, 11:41 AM
rebeccak: First,thanks for rebeccak's comments.
haha,you have a good vision~~yeah,I used conte pencil to draw it.
The problem of the image that you said I would learn by heart,
and improved myself in second one.
Answering your last question,I worked digitally at last year.
formerly,I did traditional work,and zhuzhu also is my good friend.
In short,thank you for your help very much!

zhuzhu
08-14-2005, 04:02 PM
Zhuzhu: Wow!~ This work is wonderful~
especially the details.

thanks,i just saw your work on last page,welcome to this amazing thread~!

Rebeccak
08-14-2005, 04:21 PM
Wow, I will have more time tomorrow to reply in depth to these great posts, but for the time being, let me just say to zhuzhu, WOW!!! :drool: Great work! :)

Ok, the buttocks are rendered BEAUTIFULLY, but the lower half of her body (buttocks and legs) is still too large for her upper half. She needs a bit more of a waist, ie, a transition from her upper torso to her lower torso. Then I would just shrink the lower half of her body a bit and reblend into the waist.

Her right shoulder is just really beautiful, and if you bring the whole figure up to that level, you will be in great shape!

Awesome to see everyone's posts, and I will definitely reply more in-depth to everyone's posts sometime soon. :)

~Rebeccak

zhuzhu
08-14-2005, 04:53 PM
Wow, I will have more time tomorrow to reply in depth to these great posts, but for the time being, let me just say to zhuzhu, WOW!!! :drool: Great work! :)

Ok, the buttocks are rendered BEAUTIFULLY, but the lower half of her body (buttocks and legs) is still too large for her upper half. She needs a bit more of a waist, ie, a transition from her upper torso to her lower torso. Then I would just shrink the lower half of her body a bit and reblend into the waist.

Her right shoulder is just really beautiful, and if you bring the whole figure up to that level, you will be in great shape!

~Rebeccak


thanks again~! in Shanghai, it is almost mid-night right now.before go sleeping,i should reply something.thank you Rebeccak!you just like a mirror,let me find some ignore error of my works.opps,dammmmmmmmmmmmmm the leg's bug again! i will do it again until get rid of it and Rebeccak will be "speechless"~~~haha:) this is really have fun with this kind of study,i like pressure,hope it will make me get better.

Rebeccak
08-14-2005, 05:00 PM
zhuzhu,

Lol, you're welcome! :) Ah, I see you are a sucker for pain. :) Just kidding, you are doing a fantastic job! Can't wait to see your next post.! :cool:

~Rebeccak

TheDagger
08-14-2005, 05:14 PM
Thank you for your suggestions, Rebecca. I appreciate them. :) I've been trying to continue with the painting but everytime I open the picture my mind wanders off somewhere. Maybe I'll have to leave it alone for a day or two and then try to finish it. (Not the first time it happens. Usually when I get something about 90% done I get an urge to start working on something else. Oh well.. I hope I can change that 'habit' one day.)

dbclemons
08-14-2005, 09:39 PM
Here's my version of the other photo. It's casein paint on illustration board 8x10", scanned and teaked a bit in Painter (darkened the hair and background.) Okay, I admit it, I traced the tatoo.

http://www.dbclemons.com/tutorials/workshop01B.jpg
-David

Rebeccak
08-14-2005, 09:51 PM
dbclemons,

Schweeet!! It's great to see good old fashioned traditional work being done ~ nice job so far! :)

The thing that I notice right away is that the upper part of the body is more well-developed (in terms of painting) than the lower half ~ the buttocks and legs appear a lot more flat than the upper torso, which is coming along quite beautifully. A suggestion of ground plane with cast shadow might help to situate the figure in space. I think her lower leg looks a bit small and the foot tucked under a little awkward in terms of placement ~ I think it's right in relation to the lower leg as you have it, but I think if you digitally or traditionally enlarged the leg a bit and moved it back towards the buttock slightly, it would look more natural.

Really good job on the hands! :)

Great stuff, I hope to see your update, and congrats on being the first to do both poses! :cool:

~Rebeccak

AmyScott-Murray
08-14-2005, 11:42 PM
Queensoul - don't give up on it! you've made fantastic progress so far. Go and work on something else for a few days and come back to it fresh if you're feeling stuck with it - this really helps for me :)

Dbclemons - this looks fantastic, especially since you have no undo button :) although after Rebecca pointed it out I agree that her bottom could look a bit more rounded - but maybe you're already working on it.

Noiram - I love the bold colours you've used, they really bring it to life.

Here's my update
http://www.grannys-attic.co.uk/images/amy's/drawing4.jpg
C & C very welcome as always.

Samanthie
08-15-2005, 01:39 AM
Hi Amy, Looks alot like the photo. Excellent job.:)

jl034090
08-15-2005, 03:28 AM
Here's my drawing.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b125/james2/923f1e26.jpg

James

Rebeccak
08-15-2005, 03:49 AM
monkwan,

I am not offended by the question at all, and I am glad that you followed the Opposing Curves tutorial :) ~ I hope you found it useful! I would say that the answer to the question is that I like to draw this way, love classical drawing, and find it the most rewarding style for myself. If by 'modern' you mean 'realistic', then I sometimes draw this way, though I find it less interesting for myself personally. Everyone is different, and I don't want to start a lengthy discussion about 'style' ~ however, notice that I don't mind what style people use in their drawings ~ that is a uniquely personal thing ~ and I try to critique peoples' work on their own merits. I am far less concerned with 'style' than with understanding basic principles about drawing, which I think, unfortunately, are too often overlooked in many 'modern' art programs.

One thing I think younger people should realize is that a lot of the work they are trying to do now is not really 'modern' or as unique, original, and 'now' as they believe it is ~ take for example the recent 'Master and Servant' competition. Now, this example may not be a direct corollary, but check out this piece by Rubens, one of my favorite Old Master artists:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/Rubens.jpg
http://www.georgetown.edu/faculty/irvinem/visualarts/Rubens-Massacre_of_the_Innocents-1609-11.jpg

Now, you cannot tell me that this work is not incredible! Attach the label "Master & Servant", and you have a winning entry for the CGTalk competition, no? If someone had done this in Painter or Photoshop and not oil paints on canvas, would it be 'modern'?


All I am saying is that we still have and always will have much to learn from the 'Old Masters'. I am still trying to learn from them, and think that others should do so, too, to increase their understanding of what they are doing 'now' and to improve their 'modern' work. Hope this helps, and thanks for your question. :)

~Rebeccak

Ego
08-15-2005, 09:48 AM
Amy you are right. I think I better put it aside before I hurt myself or the model.

I believe my art life will become a series of updates :D. This one I'll put aside until after I've done some formal training starting September. I will revisit it thereafter and see what changes I'll make. In the mean time I got enraged and cut off the most offending foot. ;)
I'll submit this and won't revisit it untill later.
Becca, thanks for giving me this opportunity and I look forward to more to come.
http://www.queensoul.com/images/cgtalk/workshop001.jpg

donseeg
08-15-2005, 02:31 PM
Hi everyone, thanks for the welcome.
Kaylon, thank you, you are way too kind.
Queensoul, I hope your head did not hit the table corner on your way down. :) If I can be of any help with the watercolor, let me know.
And Rebekka, thank you too. I hope you find the book helpful. I should probably finish the images I did at Siggraph and post them somewhere.
Anyway, you guys gave me a big head but never fear, my wife took care of that quickly. It will be fun posting here. I am just finishing the deadline I was on and have a few weeks before school and the next one so I will have abit of time to finish my piece. I will be most happy to post critiques if people would like me too. I also will have to wait until after work.

Thanks again and I will get something up in the next day or so.

Cheers
Don

Rebeccak
08-15-2005, 02:46 PM
Don,

The book is definitely on my top hits list. I think it would be great if you could post your images from SIGGRAPH on the main Anatomy forum (http://forums.cgsociety.org/forumdisplay.php?f=177)! Feel free to post a new thread on the main Anatomy forum (http://forums.cgsociety.org/forumdisplay.php?f=177) and call it "Don Seegmiller SIGGRAPH Digital Painting Demo" or some such title of your choice ~ that would be just great! :thumbsup: I'm sure people would be thrilled if you posted critiques of their work, so please feel free. And we're happy to increase your ego if it means that you post your work to our thread!

And, of course, please feel free to post to any of the other threads we have here. Lots of people are doing fantastic work, and I am sure that they would love your input! :)

Cheers! :)

~Rebeccak

dbclemons
08-15-2005, 03:02 PM
Yes, I definetly had a time modeling the hip and torso as it is, and there's more to do, I just got a bit worn out. Casein works best in small areas. Take it into large round spots like that hip and it requires a bunch of careful handling, which I still need to get back to. I think the lower hip and leg will improve just with more modeling of the form. She'll sit better on the page if I add a bit of shadow under her too. It's a busy week for me, so she have to sit there a while.

As for Rubens and the other Masters, there are many factors that cause the situation. Attention isn't promoted to that era in the same amount of detail it once was. You can blame it on "modern" art movements, but commercialism is as much to blame as well. Look at the lack of quality images we have in advertising, which (let's face it) is where most people these days encounter art of any kind or regular basis. I'm certain that piece by Rubens was a commisioned one, and these days art commisions are handed down from large corporations, or public grants. If they wanted something of that sort, there would be more artists submitting work of that sort. Also, Rubens himself was trained in that method, and these days it's a lost art to a large degree.

-David

augustus
08-15-2005, 05:05 PM
I think I'm finished with that one:

http://august.f2o.org/temp/workshop02.jpg

I've just seen a few things need a fix. But if I don't give up right now, the tweak time easliy can go to +infinty. :D

Rebeccak
08-15-2005, 05:10 PM
augustus,

Beautiful work, you've done just a great job!!! Thanks for all the hard work you put into this. Do you think you will try the other pose, or wait until the next set of photographs to be posted?

Great job, and I'm thrilled to see your work!!! :thumbsup:

~Rebeccak

augustus
08-15-2005, 05:11 PM
Hey, thanks. :) I will wait for the next set.

Rebeccak
08-15-2005, 05:15 PM
augustus,

Great! I definitely hope to see your work for the next round!!! :thumbsup:

~Rebeccak

SpiritDreamer
08-15-2005, 05:40 PM
Hi everyone.

My name is Glenn and this is the first time I have ever painted a figure from a photo reference. Found out it's kind of nice. Model sits there for hours without moving or complaining. Great. Wonderful idea for tutorial. Want to tell Rebecca, Honge Ly and especially the models, "Thank You."

So anyway here is my first try, a week end's worth of effort. Haven't gotten to the leg or feet yet. Just noticed the underlying foot is in the wrong spot. Oops.

I am hoping that there is somebody in this group of talent that can help me by giving me suggestions for improvement and fine tuning. I need all the help I can get. So feel free to comment any way you want to.

I am only familiar with Painter.

Take care and have a great one.
Glenn

PS I just found a book in the library, it's called Capturing Radiant Color in Oils by Susan Sarback. Definitely worth a look-see. I'm trying to incorporate her principles of color in my painting.


http://artbyglenngallegos.com/images/Nudes.JPG

Rebeccak
08-15-2005, 05:48 PM
Spirit Dreamer,

WOW!!! Excelllent work so far, and it's GREAT to see the progression sequence! I'm going to let others comment for a change, but I am just really impressed!!! Thank you for posting this really great work! :thumbsup:

~Rebeccak

SpiritDreamer
08-15-2005, 05:54 PM
Thank you Rebecca....Did you say you were coming to Boston? If so when and where? 'Cause I live here and would like to meet you!
Glenn

Rebeccak
08-15-2005, 06:05 PM
Spirit Dreamer,

I am definitely looking forward to SIGGRAPH Boston '06, so I hope to meet you there! Met a lot of great CGTalk folks in LA, and I encourage anyone who cannot afford SIGGRAPH outright to apply to be a Student Volunteer. You get your accomodations paid for, and though you have to work, you still get the opportunity to be a part of the conference for a lot less money. I would have gone as a Student Volunteer this time 'round, but they rejected me! This turned out to be a plus, however, as I got the full conference experience (tho' I am out $500 for the conference fee - it's a lot more if you're not a student, but luckily I am!)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

stipick_S
08-15-2005, 07:31 PM
call me behind the times (for not seeing it sooner), call me a fanboy (i don't care), yell at me becuase this has nothing to do with figure drawing (thats fine too).....but oh my flipping god it is don seegmiller!

------my heart just stopped--------

CLEAR!


-------ok heart beating again-------

ok... woooh, better now.

Hey Don, in case you you cant tell by this post, i am a huge fan. there is only a couple of people I would act like this around and you are one of them! I love your books and right now kids from PAFA have janked the copies I bought and wont give them back!

sorry postees for this break in continuity!

shaun

Rebeccak
08-15-2005, 07:52 PM
stipick_S,

Lol! It's ok to be a fanboy as long as you admit it. Hey, I have my own little addiction here to CGTalk. But hey, I can quit at any time! *twitches*.:)

Hey, Stip, I even met Don Seegmiller at SIGGRAPH...*calls 911 to rescue poor Stipick_S, who just slumped over from being Veklempt...* :D

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
08-15-2005, 08:26 PM
jl034090,

Welcome to the forum! Very nice drawing! Conte pencil also, I presume? I think your linework is really coming along nicely, and your proportions are really decent, though I think her extended leg could be a bit longer. Can you tell us something about your background and training, and whether you use digital medium as well (eg Photoshop or Painter)? I always like to know. :) Thank you for posting! :)

Noiram,

Welcome as well! Nice job so far. :) I think you ought to focus at this point less on Color and more on VALUE. This will help you to figure out some of the more confusing parts of the figure's musculature. Hope to see your updated results! :)

Samanthie,

Good job so far! Just keep going ~ I would suggest bringing in some darker darks and some linework to try to better define the musculature. It's easy with the painting process to overrun your initial attempt, and it's a constant struggle to try to reign the painting back in. Definitely post your updates, and I look forward to seeing your work! :)

amy_517,

You are doing a great job on the upper part of the body and the lower part of the body as independent entities ~ however, I still think that the extended leg must be much longer to appear proportional to her torso. Great work so far, and I look forward to more of your updates! :)

Bizkit,

It's great to see you here, and I'm happy that zhuzhu was kind enough to introduce you to the forum! As zhuzhu's friend, we are going to expect great things from you! :)

~Rebeccak

pushav
08-15-2005, 09:08 PM
I have two finished. I have not used a painting program in a while. I am a little rusty. Belive me my wacom had dust on it.:eek: Theese where rushed a little. I gave her a bit of a 3/4 turn.

some watercolor
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/pushav/color/lifedrawing1.jpg

some painter7 and photoshop7
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/pushav/color/lifedrawing2.jpg

I will try theese poses once more soon. Hopefully more photos will be posted. This thread is fantastic.

Rebeccak
08-15-2005, 09:11 PM
pushav,

Nice work so far! Look forward to more good stuff! :)

Comments, people?

~Rebeccak

BrittanyRichardson
08-16-2005, 03:09 AM
I desaturated the background, and I must say, I like it a lot better. I also rendered it some more and tried to make the upper half of the figure look more volumetric. Thanks, Rebeccak, for the suggestions.

I'm gonna try to keep up with this thread. I love figure drawing, and I need some good practice.

http://tinypic.com/alm1zb.jpg

Rebeccak
08-16-2005, 03:41 AM
-Brittany-,

Wow, lots of impressive progress so far!!! This has definitely come a long way, and the desaturated background definitely works better for me. :)

The one thing I would recommend at this point is to watch how straight the sides of her upper torso are becoming ~ you do not want these to be perfectly straight, parallel lines, but rather you want the torso to be comprised of offset, or opposing curves which will comprise a graceful, moving form.

Gradually introduce more contrast to your image ~ as a test, try painting an area (on a separate layer) with a full black, just to see how much of a range you have in terms of value. Right now, most of your values are squarely in the mid-value range, which is not a bad thing, but in order for the image to truly 'pop' you will need to introduce more contrast, at least in certain areas. It is recommended usually to find your blackest black areas, and your whitest white areas, so that you can see how much of a range you truly have in terms of values.

Great work so far, and definitely post your updates when you have the time! :)

~Rebeccak

zhuzhu
08-16-2005, 03:42 AM
again and again... (in Photoshop 7)


http://usera.imagecave.com/zhuzhu/ofd04.jpg

Rebeccak
08-16-2005, 03:49 AM
zhuzhu,

You're amazing! This is becoming quite a beautiful piece. :thumbsup:

You know I must say something, or I wouldn't be me. ;) ~ Plus, I can see you really pushing yourself, which is fantastic!!! It takes a lot of guts to step away from your beautiful technique to try something different, so congrats for trying something new and succeeding beautifully! :)

First let me say that I LOVE the texture in the background. Awesome stuff!!

I also LOVE the tonal / value range you have achieved in GRAYSCALE ~ I have to say, I love black and white paintings, because they look more like drawings. :)

Ok, here is my suggestion: the upper torso, left arm and hand, buttocks and right thigh look FABULOUS. However, she is missing the lower part of her right arm, which you should be able to see judging by the position of her right hand. And her lower right leg looks unfinished, and needs more contrast to work.

One final suggestion: add some DARK BLACKS in places to really add contrast / make the image pop.

I'm not picking on you, zhuzhu, I just know that if I mention something, your next post becomes that much more fabulous that it already was!!!

Great work!!! :bounce:

~Rebeccak

pushav
08-16-2005, 03:50 AM
NIIce one zhuzhu! that is unbeliveable work in photoshop. Is that digital oil pastel?
Your gonna force my to try and step my game up one day lol:thumbsup:

zhuzhu
08-16-2005, 04:08 AM
zhuzhu,

Ok, here is my suggestion: the upper torso, left arm and hand, buttocks and right thigh look FABULOUS. However, she is missing the lower part of her right arm, which you should be able to see judging by the position of her right hand. And her lower right leg looks unfinished, and needs more contrast to work.

I'm not picking on you, zhuzhu, I just know that if I mention something, your next post becomes that much more fabulous that it already was!!!

Great work!!! :bounce:

~Rebeccak

thanks Rebeccak! maybe i should training my English frist, it is a little bit hard to get some professional words and full means.but i will try to get your point better.

i saw you just say lower several time,can you overpaint on my pic and show me some point? that will be clear,thanks, if you have time.

anyway, i need you "picking on" me~~~it is useful.

zhuzhu
08-16-2005, 04:13 AM
NIIce one zhuzhu! that is unbeliveable work in photoshop. Is that digital oil pastel?
Your gonna force my to try and step my game up one day lol:thumbsup:


all in digital, i use custom oil pastel in photoshop 7,and use a texture pic as layer for the background.

Rebeccak
08-16-2005, 04:16 AM
zhuzhu,

No problem, give me a little time, and I will happily do a paintover for you~ :) ~ Ok, here it is: :)

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/zhuzhu_BW_REVIEW.jpg


~Rebeccak

zhuzhu
08-16-2005, 05:00 AM
thank you rebeccak~~~! that was really useful,i will do some make up as your said. thanks again~~~!

pushav
08-16-2005, 05:47 AM
I am back with more of my ugly renditions!...yay! lol

alright newer sketch I messed up on the hands.

I made this with printer paper and a wooden pencil, a wacom, photoshop, painter,and artrage.
Note the "color layer" acts way differently in painter compared to photoshop. I will try another one soon. I have to break my comic book drawing mode.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/pushav/color/lifedrawing3artrage.jpg

Crit this mess out of this Rebecca. Destroy it. I can take the crits. it has been a while scince I had a good crit (my college art class days)

allenatl
08-16-2005, 05:48 AM
Amazed at the work and different styles in this thread! I took a shot at the other pose.
I tried to give the edges a rounder curve as you suggested on the previous model, rebeccak. Not sure if I went far enough though.

http://www.allen3d.com/acfigureworkshop_bk.jpg

pushav
08-16-2005, 05:53 AM
wow nice sketch!:thumbsup:

allenatl
08-16-2005, 05:56 AM
pushav, looks like you're taking it a little further with each new one. I like the way the skin tone painting is progressing. Wouldn't mind seeing a more finished version in that style.

Rebeccak
08-16-2005, 05:59 AM
Good god, this thread is unstoppable! Rockin!!! :thumbsup:

pushav,

Ok, the first thing I would recommend is to work with VALUES vs. COLORS.

The second thing is that she appears to be leaning more to the left than I believe she really is in the photographs.

The third thing is that her hands are rather large ~ these can be easily resized if you have Photoshop or similar photo editor. :)

I wouldn't keep the flower in the background ~ concentrate on the figure. :)

Give me a bit and I'll jimmie up a paintover. Hopefully tomorrow sometime. ;)

allenatl,

Beautiful, carefully rendered lines! My only critique is that her torso is a bit short ~ but it doesn't bother me a lot. The feeling of opposing curves is much more apparent in this picture, and it helps the feeling of movement a lot. Great work!! Do you think you will try to paint it? Up to you. :)

**

Everyone on this and other threads has been doing just exceptional work, and has been working so hard! I have just created SPOTLIGHT: Best of the Artistic Anatomy and Figurative Art Forum (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=267958) in which some of the best work from the Anatomy forum will be Spotlighted. Soon the "SPOTLIGHT" thread will be PLUGGED on the front page, so I am hoping to highlight many of your achievements here on the Anatomy Forum. Thanks everyone for all of your amazing contributions!!! The "SPOTLIGHT" thread is simply to make sure you guys get the recognition you deserve!!! :thumbsup:

~Rebeccak

pushav
08-16-2005, 06:12 AM
lol. nice crit. I did not really realize that she was leaning to the left. Yeah I added the flower and the impasto in artrage to test out the program.
Sigh back to the drawing board.:bounce:

Thanks for the crit.:applause:

allenatl
08-16-2005, 06:21 AM
Thanks, rebeccak and pushav.
I wasn't planning on painting, but since that is another one of those things I need to practice, I'll go for it. This thread is sort of addictive.

pushav
08-16-2005, 06:47 AM
Then 10-20 mins later I have another sketch. (I work fast. This is my downfall at times)

This time I used a .05 pentel pencil(tighter control on my gesturing) and printer paper.
I think that this is my best one yet.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/pushav/sketches/lifedrawing4.jpg

Crits anyone?

donseeg
08-16-2005, 07:54 AM
http://www.seegmillerart.com/images/temp/02.jpg

Here is my next step. This is about 90 minutes of additional work. I will tell what I have been doing and why if anyone is interested. I approach a digital painting much as I would a traditional oil with slight differences.

Generally when working traditionally it is advisable to work from your darks to lights. As you do this, you want to establish your darkest darks and lightest lights asap By doing so, you will know the full range of values you have to work with. In this particular case, I have some of the darkest darks in the hair and the lightest lights are in the mid torso area.

I try and keep the brush strokes very fluid and loose. Most of the time, I actually cover the entire drawing underneath. The reason is two fold; if you pay to much attention to the outline, you end up trying to stay within the lines. This is not the best practice since it will limit your vision and your lines are probably in the wrong place anyway. I know that most of mine are in the early stages. Ofter, i will start without a sketch since drawing is generally a linear technique and painting is a tonal one. Also, if you are good enough to sketch the image, you are most likely good enough to paint it without a guide. This also cuts the amount work you have to do. Being, generally speaking, a lazy artist, I will save as much work as possible. There seems to always be more than enough anyway. ;) So, to sum up that rather lengthy rant, I paint with my darks and lights over the initial sketch.

I use a bigger brush than I think I need. This keeps me from tightening up too quickly. I love nothing more than to put the highlights in the eyes first thing and I really try to avoid this.

I paint my strokes across the large axis of a form. In the painting this is probably most noticable in the leg. If you would like a close up, I can post one. Painting across the form helps maintain a sense of volume.

I let some of the background color show through the paint and integrate into the overall color shceme. You can see this best in the lower pelvis area.

I paint any deep lines like where the leg is folded with very dark red colors. This gives a touch of warmth and makes the painting come alive.

I use brighter colors than I think I will need. I particularly use these bright colors in the transition areas from the lights to darks. The brightest local color of any object will always be foune in the shadow to light transitions. Since this particular photograph is not the best to paint from because it is lit from the front, I use these colors predominately on the edges. This is to give some color and help round the form. As you blend and work an image, the color tends to mute some.

The general complexion of any non-tanned average person is found in the chest area. Everything that goes out to the extremities from there will get gradually darker and ruddy. You can see I am darkening the arms, legs, and head slightly as they move away from the torso.

I look for extra color at the joints. In this case, the knees and elbows. Eventually, I will paint different bands of color across the face, but it is still too early in the process.

It is just as important that you paint background as you work on the figure. If you do not, as you correct your drawing, the lines between the figure and background will ever so slightly expand eventually giving you drawing fits. by painting back and forth with the figure and background, you can avoid many of these mistakes.

Well, tha is about enough for now. I probably have made your eyes tired. If you have any questions, post em and I will try to answer. If i do not have an answer, i will try and make something up that at least sounds right. ;)

I will get to some critiques tomorrow evening if anyone would like one. Most of what i am reading is very insightful and good. Please feel free to critique my piece. I often have the most difficulty seeing my own work with a clear eye.

Oh, and ask Rebeccak, it was pretty boring meeting me at Siggraph. I am sitting there involved in painting and howling with ocassional outbursts of pain as I grab something with my left hand. (I stuck a phillips head screwdriver into my left hand the two days before going to Siggraph and had stitches and a drain in the wound.....I know gross, but it makes a good story) I think most people thought I was a little touched and avoided me.

Don

Ego
08-16-2005, 08:09 AM
Becca, what is it about you that makes me wanna keep going on and on and on? Turns out the challenge is not on this week and , I dont have to go and install a 200 station network today as planned, hell the sun is even shining, so am grabbing my sketchpad, a big mug of coffee and am sitting on the veranda till something happens :)

zhuzhu
08-16-2005, 09:26 AM
update (thanks for rebeccak)

http://usera.imagecave.com/zhuzhu/ofd04update.jpg


donseeg: thank you for share that,maybe a litle bit longer for me to read it and get it,but still thank you. your works are rock~~~!!!

Ego
08-16-2005, 10:11 AM
Don thanks for sharing your process. It'll be interesting to watch this go all the way.
Zhuzhu, am digging this grayscale you have going on. I really love it.

Rebeccak
08-16-2005, 02:17 PM
Woo! Don Seegmiller! *Does the happy dance*. :)

Welcome back, and thank you for posting this really cool commentary about your process! I'm sure I speak for everyone here when I say that I hope you continue to contribute to this and future threads!! It's a great benefit to see a real pro at work, and I appreciate your openness in sharing your thoughts about your working process. Definitely looking forward to seeing more great stuff!

I'm equally sure that anyone here would love and appreciate it if you gave comments and criticism regarding their work. Please feel free to do so at any time! :)

Oh, and please post close-ups, and anything else that would be helpful for those of us learning to paint! :thumbsup:

Thanks again for dropping by and for your contribution! :thumbsup:

Best,

~Rebeccak

NOTE to everyone here:

Ok, Don Seegmiller has just said, "Feel free to ask me questions". Do not overlook this opportunity, people!!! :)

Rebeccak
08-16-2005, 02:29 PM
Don,

I have a question for you ~ you said that your digital painting process differs slightly from your traditional painting process.

1. Can you elaborate a bit on how the two processes differ?

2. Also, for those who have ONLY ever painted digitally, and never traditionally, what would you say are the advantages / disadvantages to learning only digital painting?

3. Can you speak a bit to the importance of drawing to painting?

4. For someone who is just starting out in traditional or digital drawing and painting, what advice and tips might you have?

5. How often do you paint digitally, and how often traditionally?

6. To what extent do you personally combine digital and traditional painting/drawing?

7. Do you think that with digital art, the line between painting and drawing is blurred?

Thank you!

~Rebeccak

erilaz
08-16-2005, 02:44 PM
Quickly popping in to say you rock Don. :D Back later to post properly!

AmyScott-Murray
08-16-2005, 03:54 PM
Thanks Don, that's some useful advice :)

I have one more question:

Where you said you like to let the background colour show through sometimes, does that mean you pick the background to suit the model, or what's actually in the background?

My only crit of your work (and only because you asked, i'd never dare otherwise :) ) is that since you have the light coming from top left, it looks a little odd to have what might be a shadow above her right arm, it doesn't seem to fit with the lighting.

The proportions etc look to me to be spot on. Really nice drawing :applause:

If you have time tomorrow evening to look at my drawing that would be great, I'll be posting an update before then.

Thanks

Amy

pushav
08-16-2005, 04:22 PM
Alright, I just finished 2 more drawings. This time I did not look at the picture to see if my results come out even better. I felt less pressure when I sketched theese from my memory

100 percent photoshop and wacom graphire
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/pushav/color/lifedrawing4photoshop.jpg

sketched in photoshop. colors in photoshop and artrage 1.1
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/pushav/color/lifedrawing4photoshop2.jpg

Crits?

well ocean
08-16-2005, 04:24 PM
http://bbs.chinavfx.net/attachments/200508/16232027-2005081501.jpgthis is my practice

Rebeccak
08-16-2005, 05:39 PM
You guys are too quiet...help me out with crits here! :)

~Rebeccak

dbclemons
08-16-2005, 05:47 PM
zhuzhu, that last black & white you posted is wonderful! Keep a good thing goin'.

amy_517, if I may make a statement on background color showing through, at least in my approach, it's to make sure the forground object(s) has as much of the overall tone of the picture as possible. It keeps the atmosphere in the picture as though everything is lit in the same environment, and prevents things from looking pasted in. In fact, I generally try to keep as much of all my marks showing in the final image as possible, from the beginning stages to the end, in order to display how the work process developed. Don may have a different reasoning.

I often like to use only black and white images when using photo references, or de-saturate a color image. It gives me more freedom on palette choices.

-David vbmenu_register("postmenu_2549458", true);

pushav
08-16-2005, 06:15 PM
I have a question for don seegmiller-
Could you turn you current wip figure painting on this thread into a new tutorial on your website? Your watercolor tutorial is excellent!

I really should start working on my color selection. Usually I make a greyscalpainting in painter first then color glaze it in painter.

Rebeccak
08-16-2005, 06:19 PM
pushav,

Psst, how about if asking Don Seegmiller if he could turn his WIP into a tutorial on this website also. :) ~Imagine how cool it would be to have on the Anatomy forum! ;) *hint**hint**hint**hint* :)

Also, I think it would be awesome if zhuzhu turned his beautiful painting into a tutorial for the Anatomy forum as well. :) Zhuzhu, I still have a few more crits, but they'll have to wait til after work. :) But, overall, I am stunned with your work! :thumbsup:

~Rebeccak

default-rol
08-16-2005, 06:33 PM
Hello

Been pretty ill for a few days and busy, busy, busy before that so this is my first picture post on this GREAT forum - Well done RebeccaK and Hong Ly! :applause:

Could only muster a pair of 3 minute gesture sketches at the moment, but will be going a little more in-depth tonight/tomorrow. I need to start drawing again! :D

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/1458/gestures1607050sl.jpg

pushav
08-16-2005, 06:43 PM
pushav,

How about if asking Don Seegmiller if he could turn his WIP into a tutorial on this website also. :) ~Imagine how cool it would be to have on the Anatomy forum! ;) *hint**hint**hint**hint* :)

Also, I think it would be awesome if zhuzhu turned his beautiful painting into a tutorial for the Anatomy forum as well. :) Zhuzhu, I still have a few more crits, but they'll have to wait til after work. :) But, overall, I am stunned with your work! :thumbsup:

~Rebeccak

Oh yeah that would be great also!

As for my work, I am sorry that you guys have to see my ugly colors. I am capable of better but sometimes when I color I start off strong but get restless and want it done whithin the hour. lol. Its time for me to try and do even better painting. I have to get back into the habit of painting again.

I would post a tutorial but my coloring is not "there" yet.

Ego
08-16-2005, 06:47 PM
I loved the grayscale image of zhuzhu so much that I decided to do the next model in grayscale. I can feel the improvement in the way I look at the model. I know where am going to zoom in etc etc. Wow, and this is only the first workshop. Who knows, you just might soon make an artist out of me. I drew on paper and transfered to Photoshop. I hope this is not a bad habit or is this normal?

I concur with the tutorial request from Don. In addition to Becca's brownies, I'll offer some chocolate chip icecream with everything on top :D

http://www.queensoul.com/images/cgtalk/wkshop001B.jpg

Rebeccak
08-16-2005, 06:51 PM
Ok, I really shouldn't be looking at nude images at work (the building maintenance guy just walked in and noticed me looking at these, GREAT, I wonder what he's thinking, lol!) :scream:, but Queensoul, I am just WAY impressed with your TREMENDOUS improvement in this piece. Guess I'm not crazy for trying to get people to paint in Grayscale, eh? :) Thanks, zhuzhu, for showing the way! :thumbsup:

~Many kudos, Ms. Queensoul, you have done just a terrific job! Now that you've bumped up several notches, I feel ready to tear into your work. Prepare thyself!!! ;) ~Totally kidding. :)

You're wowing the crowds, QS!!! :bounce:

~Rebeccak

Ego
08-16-2005, 06:59 PM
Ok, I really shouldn't be looking at nude images at work (the building maintenance guy just walked in and noticed me looking at these, GREAT, I wonder what he's thinking, lol!) :scream:, but Queensoul, I am just WAY impressed with your TREMENDOUS improvement in this piece. Guess I'm not crazy for trying to get people to paint in Grayscale, eh? :) Thanks, zhuzhu, for showing the way! :thumbsup:

~Many kudos, Ms. Queensoul, you have done just a terrific job! Now that you've bumped up several notches, I feel ready to tear into your work. Prepare thyself!!! ;) ~Totally kidding. :)

You're wowing the crowds, QS!!! :bounce:

~Rebeccak
Oh my God Becca, you have made my day. Thanks, teach!

Rebeccak
08-16-2005, 07:07 PM
Queensoul,

Lol, now I feel old! :D You're very welcome ~ it's amazing the work that's being put into this thread!!!

Mike aka default.rol,

Do not...forget...the lessons...you learned...in this AMAZING piece (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=2509050&postcount=50) you did for the DRAWING WORKSHOP 001: Copying the Work of Rubens (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=262607) thread... :)

~Rebeccak

pushav
08-16-2005, 07:08 PM
I discovered the greyscale painting method form comic artist Alex Ross first then I realized master of yester years used it also. Greyscaling helps a lot even being a color painting.

Nice work Qeensoul.
Here is my crit.
Now you could push and pull the values more on her hair. Add some highlight on the top of her left forearm. And the fingers on her left hand should have some high lights also. the finger highlights should be lighter thann the forearm highlight due to the fingers being on a front plane and the forearm being on a sideplane or a backplane (look at a 3d rectangle to see what I am talking about.) oh yeah the fingers on the right hand should have some highlights also

In all good job!:thumbsup:

Was that a good crit Rebecca? You said that you need more people to give crits.

Rebeccak
08-16-2005, 07:19 PM
And, er, speaking of big guns, I wouldn't mind a nice painting / drawing tut by new Maya Master (http://www.alias.com/eng/etc/mayamasters/masters/steven_stahlberg.shtml) Steven Stahlberg, either... *whistles, does the "Moonwalk"*... :)

~Rebeccak

Ego
08-16-2005, 07:30 PM
@pushav, thanks for your response and suggestions. :)
@Becca, as usual I got your back. I will even do a breakdance should we get a tut out of Stahlberg or Don.

MadSamoan
08-16-2005, 07:49 PM
Playing around with a tablet pc and done from scratch. This thread should be a lot of fun, so fire away with critiques!

http://www.pinwire.com/jwand/gallery/albums/Drawings/cgtalk01.jpg

pushav
08-16-2005, 07:54 PM
Nice work Madsamoan! Now you should greyscale the body. The hair is perfect!
Keep it up.

Rebeccak
08-16-2005, 08:05 PM
pushav,

Thanks for all your great input! Now, speaking of Grayscale paintings...*whistles*... :)

~I'd love to see you do one, too. :)

~Rebeccak

default-rol
08-16-2005, 08:11 PM
Mike aka default.rol,

Do not...forget...the lessons...you learned...in this AMAZING piece (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=2509050&postcount=50) you did for the DRAWING WORKSHOP 001: Copying the Work of Rubens (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=262607) thread... :)

~Rebeccak

Sorry Rebecca:blush:

I've been reading an art history book series recently (to be just totally geeky) and got to Mondrian last night... (can you tell?) :D I kind of like Mondrian....:p

MIKE

pushav
08-16-2005, 08:14 PM
Lol before you even typed that rebecca, I am already on it lol!
Right now i brought out my sketchbook and put away the printer paper. I'll post the sketch very soon before I turn it into a greyscale painting.

Rebeccak
08-16-2005, 08:18 PM
Mike,

Gahhhh!!! Not the blushing emoticon!!! I always feel like such a jerk when I see that one in response to something I've written, lol! :)

Erm, wouldn't a Mondrian figure look more like...this? I call it "Figway Boogie Woogie". :)

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/figway_boogiewoogie.jpg

Ok, people! That's enough spam from yous! Whoops...guess I'm the one spamming... :D

EDIT: Must...not...spam...own...thread...Lol, Mike! The blushing emoticons...are killing me...must...find...source of sarcasm... :)

~Rebeccak

default-rol
08-16-2005, 08:25 PM
Rebecca

I think he abstracted to that sort of stuff via simplified human forms. You just got to check out his snail piece... That rules! lol.

MIKE

P.S. Will try to refrain from Matisse inspired stuff from now on. :blush::blush::blush::D:p Need to go back to the Pre-Hellenistic period of Greece and work over again. :thumbsup:

EDIT: *In an attempt to save myself from further humiliation.

Seem to have got the De Stijl's Piet Mondrian (1872 - 1944) horribly mixed up with Henri Matisse (1869 - 1954) who I actually was referring to. My shakey defense is that I did read until very late last night and it all became a bit of a blur...

SORRY ALL! :blush:

[*Mike will remain in the "dog house" until he makes a better attempt at one of these picture references in a more realistic/analytical style.]

pushav
08-16-2005, 09:11 PM
ok here is my full tonal sketch that I will turn into a greyscale painting.

Materials used generic sketchpaper,Sandford brand kneaded and pink perl erasers .05 pentel pencil, wooden number2 pencil, and .07 pentel pencil.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/pushav/sketches/lifedrawing5.jpg

Rebeccak
08-16-2005, 09:14 PM
pushav,

Much, much better!!! I think you've come a long way with this vs. the previous paintings. Good luck with the painting of this, take your time, PLAN, and use only three Values: White, Mid-Gray, and Black, using brushes with varying opacity and flow settings. Start out by covering the entire 'canvas' with a mid-tone gray, and work your lights up and your darks down from that. Looking forward to seeing your results! :)

Make sure that you give her / retain her waist. I noticed that in your previous images, her waist was either too short, or non-existant...so look out for that when you paint, as it is an easy area to cover over. :)

~Rebeccak

SpiritDreamer
08-16-2005, 09:25 PM
Worked on the leg and the feet; am trying out different lighting schemes.
I like Caravaggio's lighting. Dramatic. Tried that out on #4. But also like the golden glow in #5. Could really use some opinions here!!!
Really like the way these tools make the options unlimited. But sometimes that creates new problems, like trying to decide which is best.
By the way, really think everyone's work on here is turning out great. And just seems to be getting better every day.
Take Care
Glenn

http://artbyglenngallegos.com/images/5_nudes.JPG

pushav
08-16-2005, 09:27 PM
and 5 mins.. later a wip grayscale painting.

This is a test run done with a mouse and painter. I did not feel like reaching for my wacom lol. I used an acrylic brush in painter 7.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/pushav/sketches/lifedrawing5wippainter.jpg

Nice work spirt dreamer:thumbsup:

Rebeccak
08-16-2005, 09:29 PM
pushav,

Great to see your update, but let's try to limit updates to those that are really significant. Let's see you get the whole of the canvas covered with a mid gray and have you really work those values first. :)

Good job so far. ;)

Holy crap, I just noticed Spirit Dreamer's piece. WOW!!! Ok, I need a minute...(inhale...exhale...inhale...) :eek:

Ok, Spirit Dreamer, you officially have to tell us about your background and training. Dish, baby, dish! :thumbsup:

I vote #5. :)

~Rebeccak

default-rol
08-16-2005, 09:33 PM
Worked on the leg and the feet; am trying out different lighting schemes.
I like Caravaggio's lighting. Dramatic. Tried that out on #4. But also like the golden glow in #5. Could really use some opinions here!!!



Spirit Dreamer

Love the series - my money is on #3 as my personal favourite, #4 is a little too dark for my taste and #5 appears a bit "blown out" to me. EDIT: Just tried my LCD monitor and #5 looks better now, if still a bit too yellow/golden.

I like Caravaggio's lighting too! Now THERES a tutorial if he's looking down on this thread and has internet access.... if only..... :D

Great Stuff

MIKE

pushav
08-16-2005, 09:38 PM
I would use a mid gray but it always mess me up to i tend to use a lightish gray in painter or what some will call 20-25 percent grey in photoshop. I tend to glaze with the layer set to darken or something like that (no hard light or color layer. that makes the picture too bright for me). This will make the figure dark so I can work up to lighter colors faster.

Rebeccak
08-16-2005, 09:41 PM
pushav,

Ah, no worries, :) let me know if I'm being a mid-gray Nazi! :)

Spirit Dreamer,

*Still enamored of awesome colors*... :thumbsup:

MadSamoan,

Incredible start!!! Looking forward to seeing your updates! :)

Watch the classic mistake on this pose ~ making the buttocks and thigh too big. It's not out of control at this point, but definitetly try to shrink it a bit to bring the proportions in line. ;)

~Rebeccak

SpiritDreamer
08-16-2005, 09:42 PM
MIKE...
Thanks!
Your opinion seems pretty solid (especially since I agree with it!:) )
I am kind of partial to that one myself. Hadn't had a chance to see them all together until I put them up there just now.
Glenn
PS
Yeah, dramatic lighting would be a great tutorial!

SpiritDreamer
08-16-2005, 10:03 PM
Rebecca

(Born in East LA, 1953. And now living peacefully by the ocean near Boston.)

Been drawing and painting since I could walk. :)

I first studied in the Boston Museum of Fine Arts, mid '60s;

Served on a Polaris Nuclear Subarine for 4 years in the Navy: Launcher Technician;

I graduated New England School of Art and Design (Boston) in the mid '70s, graphic design major;

Took anatomy and air brush classes at Otis Parson's Art Institute, LA, in late '70s;

Studied under Burne Hogarth for a year, late '70s, Otis Parson's Art Institute, LA.

Worked as a Teamster mover and fork lift driver last 15 years doing convention shows, set up and tear down.

About five years ago, got a computer;
retired from being a mover;

and am finally doing what I love:
Paint, Draw and Dream ! :)


Glenn

pushav
08-16-2005, 10:08 PM
I must enroll in the spiritdreamer school of painting! When do classes start?:thumbsup:

SpiritDreamer
08-16-2005, 10:09 PM
Thank you PUSHAV,
Great compliment!
Glenn

Rebeccak
08-16-2005, 10:12 PM
Spirit Dreamer,

Schweet! Thanks for that. :)

Well, we have a few things in common ~ studied under Burne Hogarth in LA (Pasadena). Tell us your Burne stories! He must have had hair when you had him, lol! :)

Thought about going to Boston U., tho don't know why I didn't. They have an excellent art program.

I'm thrilled to hear that you're now doing what you love! I feel rather the same way, tho if I could ditch the day job and teach full~time and do this also, that would be GREAT, tho I can't really complain. :)

Awesome, really happy to have you on the forum! :) Can't wait to see more great work! :thumbsup:

Hey, that's cool that you added this thread to your signature! Thanks! :)

~Rebeccak

SpiritDreamer
08-16-2005, 10:21 PM
Rebecca...

Yeah Burne Hogarth had hair and 2" thick glasses....and a mind that I will never forget. Left a big impression on me!
And one thing I remember, my jaw dropped about two feet when I saw him doing these life size drawings right out of his imagination!
And I remember he was blunt and to the point and never beat around the bush about anything.

And...
I always wondered where did he find all those GORGEOUS MODELS??!!??

And yes, he had some really amazing stories and theories about life.
An amazing man, if ever ther was one, and the greatest teacher I ever had.
Glenn

Rebeccak
08-16-2005, 10:26 PM
Spirit Dreamer,

Cool, thank you for sharing those stories. :) Lol, I had forgotten about the coke glasses. The funny thing I remember about Burne is his smell. He had this really intense (not bad, mind you, but really strong) burnt musky odor, and you could tell he was coming down the hall from a mile away! None of this is said to disrespect Burne ~ all of my memories are fond ones. But yes, he had a larger than life personality that I won't soon forget! :)

~Rebeccak

well ocean
08-16-2005, 11:43 PM
http://bbs.chinavfx.net/attachments/200508/16232027-2005081501.jpgthis is my practice

pushav
08-17-2005, 12:43 AM
I am still in awe spiritfreamer. That is a great painting. Now you know what that means,

TUTORIAL TIME! lol:thumbsup:

You're using painter right?

AmyScott-Murray
08-17-2005, 12:52 AM
Spirit Dreamer, very lovely paintings, in the style I'm trying to achieve too. I am watching and reading with much interest. I agree with pushav, a tutorial would be lovely :)
I ought to try out that thing of different lighting tests on mine too.
So much great work getting posted on here it's hard to know what to comment on :)
I have been thinking hard about what kind of background to give mine, as I quite like the idea of turning it into more or less a finished piece if I can. I decided to try out an Oriental carpet drapery sort of thing, and after an interesting evening spent photographing bath towels here it is.. I also did quite a bit of shifting bits around to correct the anatomy some more. Had hoped to get more done before posting it, but I really have to go to bed now.

http://www.grannys-attic.co.uk/images/amy's/drawing5.jpg

Suggestions for improvement very welcome as always, but remember that the backdrop is in very early stages :)

Thank you

Rebeccak
08-17-2005, 12:56 AM
amy_517,

Hey, I think everything looks great so far, with the exception of her right leg. I still think that it really needs to be longer so that it matches the proportions of her body. I think it would be a great improvement if you extended her lower leg quite a bit. :)

Be careful not to get too caught up in color ~ while the color scheme you have chosen is nice, you really want to think primarily about value. I will start to sound like a broken record here, ;) but I cannot overemphasize the primary importance of values / lights & darks to a painting.

Looking good so far, and I can't wait to see updates! :)

~Rebeccak

SpiritDreamer
08-17-2005, 01:01 AM
Hi Pushav

Well I will try to post my methods and techniques (tricks?) with my pictures as I go along on this site.
(by writing directions inside the pictures)
And make suggestions if I have any.
Maybe this way I can still paint myself and maybe help somebody out along the way.

I have been using Painter 5 and am still learning Painter 8.

I have Photoshop but have never tried to use it - yet...

I do have to ask my wife to do the typing so some days I can say more than others.
(Obviously she is on vacation this week)
I guess I will have to learn how to type (ha ha)... (my wife strongly suggests this):)

Take Care
Glenn

AmyScott-Murray
08-17-2005, 01:07 AM
Thanks Rebecca
First thing tomorrow I'll tone down the background, as I agree it's at risk of being too overpowering. I think maybe the body could do with some more contrast as the tonal range isn't great atm, what do you think?
I already extended her leg quite a bit, but I'll do some more as well.
Thanks for the quick reply :)

Spirit Dreamer - that would be great :applause:

pushav
08-17-2005, 01:16 AM
lol. Hopefully your nice to her so I can get a tutorial.:scream:
Does painter have a liquid lens brush or is it the same as smudge.(referring to your w.i.p. pictures spiritdreamer)
I am using painter7 I also have 9, but since I uninstalled xp pro I went back to windows me and 9 doesn't work with Windows me. I am lucky that I am not running windows 2000 cuz' there is an internet worm on the loose.:eek:

Oh yeah photoshop is an alright program for painting but painter mimics traditional painting feel waaaaay better. your using the right program spiritdreamer

btw nice job amy.

SpiritDreamer
08-17-2005, 01:45 AM
Hi Pushav :)

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=266229&page=11&pp=15 (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=266229&page=11&pp=15)

I think that goes to page 11 on this tutorial. In my second picture, in the series of 5,
I wrote a little about liquid lens...
in Painter 5:
click "Windows" on top bar
then select "show objects"
Press "burn"
select from a menu with "Liquid Lens" and ten other things
Select "Liquid Lens"
Press apply
Then your brushes will come up
It has three or four different things/tools/brushes you can select under "Liquid Lens"
Each one is great and they are all worth trying.

In Painter 8
I just found the liquid lens....(not where the Help was telling me to look!)
Under "Layers" on the tool bar...all the way down to "Dynamic Plug Ins" at the bottom of the menu and there it was: "Liquid Lens" - An image has to be open to access it....

Liquid Lens pushes things around and does funny things...basically manipulates the paint like you would clay...
but it is NOT a "smudge" effect

Aren't you glad I am not in charge of this tutorial?:eek:

Probably going to the "HELP" might help alot more than this!

Good luck
Glenn
:)


:) Hi AMY
I downloaded your picture and will give it a look.
I will see if I have some suggestions.
And will try to be in touch soon.
Thanks for your comments, also!
Take Care
Glenn

pushav
08-17-2005, 02:26 AM
I finally found the liquid lens and how to use it after looking it up. (it took me 30 mins just to learn how to use this function. I this kind like liquify in photoshop 7 and up or smudging with alot of pressure. thanks. I should try your method to see if I can make a painting with out making a sketch.

stipick_S
08-17-2005, 02:39 AM
...hi there are you looking for a blending tool or a warping tool in painter?

pushav
08-17-2005, 02:47 AM
...hi there are you looking for a blending tool or a warping tool in painter?

Thanks stipick but i finally found it after 80 years of searching. the funny thing was it that i applied the liquid lens but i could not "move the picture/smudge" Then about an hour later i finally got to work. Lol!

I felt dumb after I found out how easy it was. Note to all those who do not have painter, you can use the liquify function in filters or use smudge on 90-100 percent with spacing turned on and use a hard brush when smudging.

Wow I have learned a lot on this thread.

Rebeccak
08-17-2005, 03:01 AM
well ocean,

Here is a little review: :)

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/well-ocean_REVIEW_SET.jpg

1. Start by adding a GRAY tone / layer.

2. Slowly add highlights with a 25% opacity brush / light GRAY color.

3. Keep building lights and darks to get form.

Hope this helps! :)

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
08-17-2005, 03:07 AM
4. Keep adding lights and darks...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/well-ocean_REVIEW_SET_add1.jpg

Rebeccak
08-17-2005, 03:13 AM
DESATURATE the image to see it in Black and White only:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/well-ocean_REVIEW_2.jpg

Hope this helps! :)

~Rebeccak

pushav
08-17-2005, 04:01 AM
Or you can do to image>mode>greyscale to take away the colors of a picture.

stipick_S
08-17-2005, 04:55 AM
well... i will just post this anyways maybe it will help someone out.


There is a slightly better way to smudge/blend in painter, other then using liquify brushes.

open the brush menu and go to well
there drag the resaturation down to zero and pull the bleed up to anything above zero...1- through whatever works. blend away!

this will give you an ideal blender in just about any brush in painter, with out the blur that smudge tools add...it doesn't so much as push and pull the paint as it actually blends.


Shaun

p.s. try it out, it is so much faster (real time) than PSD'S smudge and the liquify brushes in painter.