zhuzhu
08-17-2005, 05:00 AM
[ofd.05] (SketchBook Pro 2)
http://usera.imagecave.com/zhuzhu/ofd05.jpg
http://usera.imagecave.com/zhuzhu/ofd05.jpg
View Full Version : NOW OPEN!!! Open Figure Drawing Workshop with Hong Ly and Rebecca Kimmel 001
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pushav
08-17-2005, 05:08 AM
Nice jod zhuzhu!:thumbsup:
Yeah stipick_S I decided to use smudge with very low pressure in painter. It is easier to use compared to the liquid lens brush. Man that liquid lens brush is hard to control to get the look that you want.
Yeah stipick_S I decided to use smudge with very low pressure in painter. It is easier to use compared to the liquid lens brush. Man that liquid lens brush is hard to control to get the look that you want.
donseeg
08-17-2005, 07:32 AM
Hi all. Please forgive me for not posting answers, etc sooner. It seems that the only real time I have is late in the evening... so, anyway, I will answer what I can.
Rebeccak, I will answer your questions first. My digital painting process is very much like my traditional process using oil paint. There are a few differences.
1. With traditional oils, you generally should paint from dark colors to light colors and from thin dark paint to thicker light paint. This is based on several technical and practical reasons. Dark colors when built up thickly, tend to loose their clarity and look muddy and drab. Thin layers are much more luminous. Technically, you should always work from thin to thick in oil so the lower layers will dry quicker than the top layers. If you reverse this, your top layers will crack as the lower thicker paint dries. Secondly, it is much easier (technically and budget wise) to lighten a dark color than to darken a light color. By painting this way, it is much easier to control the amount of paint you are applying when working dark to light. Get the paint too thick to quickly and your brush begins to slide like a car stuck in mud. I try to get the full range of values to be used in the painting established with rather thin paint in the first session on a painting. I use very little if any medium during this process.
In digital work, I paint dark to light. This is more a habit than necessity. You obviously do not have the drying and mixing issues. I do still try and get a full range of values quickly. There is also the most wonderful "undo" feature when painting digitally. Because of this, I will experiment more with value and color.
though the tools are very different, the way I use them is quite similar. I should also say that my initial goal with a painting is to establish the values. There is nothing more important to realistic work than value. Color, though very important is secondary. If you need proof, look at any black and white photograph. We accept this type of image as a representation of reality simply because of the way the values are arranged with complete disregard of the color.... that is probably enough rambling on that... :)
2. I believe very strongly that anyone wanting to learn to paint digitally, should first learn to paint with traditional media. The computer is such a powerful tool with so many options that it can be overwhelming to a beginner. Traditional media gives an artist the ability to severely limit the colors and effects available with any particular medium. When you have learned how to work traditionally, your transition to digital will be much smoother. Now this is not the only way to learn digital painting but I believe the most effective. I teach both traditional and digital art at the university level and the traditional painters have a much easier time transitioning than those with limited painting experience. Course everyone is different and I may be completely wrong for any particular individual.
3. Drawing and painting are similar in the fact that both are done to represent the 3D world around us on a 2D surface. Aspects of each can be used in the other but they are very different methods of representing the world around us. Drawing is basically a linear process where the object is defined by drawing boundries between adjacent objects. Painting is a tonal process where the an object is represented by areas of color and value placed next to each other. You can have linear elements in painting and tonal elements in drawing. All that painting really is, is getting the right value, color, and shape in the right size, next to it's neighbor and repeating this process across an image. If you knew nothing about your subject and simply were able to accomplish this accurate placement, your painting would look like what you were looking at. Of course these differences, rules, whatever you want to call them only apply to realistic painting. Decorative painting and drawing have completely different end goals.
4. The absolutely best thing that anyone can do who wants to paint and draw, is to draw. I know that sounds trite but it is true. It really does not matter what you draw as long as your do it. I carry a sketchbook everywhere. I have several in my pickup all the time. I believe it is also important to draw with a little different motive than we usually do. This motive is to draw just to draw. Most of us draw to try and make "pretty" pictures and receive compliments. You should approach a sketch book much like you would a diary. Draw assuming that no one else will ever see what you are doing. Pretty soon you will get past trying to draw "pretty" things and start to have some real learning going on. Now, you will probably eventually show what you are drawing but do not approach doing it with that in mind. Don't erase. You can spend more time making corrections than drawing plus the errors are where you are actually learning qiute a lot. if you are not going to be showing the drawing, then it really does not matter if youerase stray lines. Draw from life. I could go on for a long time about why this important but it is probably best left to another thread.
5. At this time in my life, I am painting digitally more often than traditionally. I hope this will balance our in the verynear future. I paint on the computer every day. i eventually will get back to doing both every day.
6. I rarely combine the traditional and digital. My painting audience is rather conservative and most galleries still feel traditional art is superior to digital. this is slowly changing but I get far more money for my oils.
7. I really do not think that the line between digital drawing and painting is blured any more than when working with traditional media. I still think they are fundamentally different in how they try to represent the world. Again, though, this is not to say that the tonal elements of painting can not find their way into drawing and vise versa. Often my drawings have a lot of tonal work. In case anyone is interested, I use Black Prismacolor pencils, Stabilo 8064 pencils, and Prismacolor Black Grape pencils.
Amy:
I mean that what is ever in the background is intentionally used in the foreground. In a painting like I am doing for this thread, i intentionally chose a green color to complement the colors in the figure but it could just as well been a sunset. The figure tends to reflect and pick up what ever color is around it. the brighter the color the more dramatic the effect. I have an exercise that I have beginning painting students work on. It is simply putting an egg in a box that has been lined with various colored paper. It is amazing how many paintings I get with the egg painted with grays but surrounded with color. it is an exercise in observation and learning to see the influence of the color on the object. It works the same way with the figure.
As far as the shadow by the right arm, it is simply me working into the background. You will see that funny shape disappear as the image progresses. Please do not hesitate to let me know if something looks funny. Right now, I think I have her head too big and will work towards correcting that.
I will write some on your updated piece asap. Sorry I am slow.
DBclemons:
You have given an excellent reply as to another reason why foreground color is put in the background and background into the foreground. I think your reasoning is sound and strong. I too, used black and white images for many years to use what ever palette I wanted and to help see the values. Now that I paint from the computer monitor, I generally will take all the saturation down in the initial stages of a painting.
Pushav. I will think about creating a tutorial. Thanks for the feedback on the watercolor one. It is good to know that people actually look at them :)
Forgive my spelling errors, it is late and I have ranted too long already. Morning is way to early. I will try and leave some remarks on individual works tomorrow. Cheesecake is darn good too....
Cheers
Don
Rebeccak, I will answer your questions first. My digital painting process is very much like my traditional process using oil paint. There are a few differences.
1. With traditional oils, you generally should paint from dark colors to light colors and from thin dark paint to thicker light paint. This is based on several technical and practical reasons. Dark colors when built up thickly, tend to loose their clarity and look muddy and drab. Thin layers are much more luminous. Technically, you should always work from thin to thick in oil so the lower layers will dry quicker than the top layers. If you reverse this, your top layers will crack as the lower thicker paint dries. Secondly, it is much easier (technically and budget wise) to lighten a dark color than to darken a light color. By painting this way, it is much easier to control the amount of paint you are applying when working dark to light. Get the paint too thick to quickly and your brush begins to slide like a car stuck in mud. I try to get the full range of values to be used in the painting established with rather thin paint in the first session on a painting. I use very little if any medium during this process.
In digital work, I paint dark to light. This is more a habit than necessity. You obviously do not have the drying and mixing issues. I do still try and get a full range of values quickly. There is also the most wonderful "undo" feature when painting digitally. Because of this, I will experiment more with value and color.
though the tools are very different, the way I use them is quite similar. I should also say that my initial goal with a painting is to establish the values. There is nothing more important to realistic work than value. Color, though very important is secondary. If you need proof, look at any black and white photograph. We accept this type of image as a representation of reality simply because of the way the values are arranged with complete disregard of the color.... that is probably enough rambling on that... :)
2. I believe very strongly that anyone wanting to learn to paint digitally, should first learn to paint with traditional media. The computer is such a powerful tool with so many options that it can be overwhelming to a beginner. Traditional media gives an artist the ability to severely limit the colors and effects available with any particular medium. When you have learned how to work traditionally, your transition to digital will be much smoother. Now this is not the only way to learn digital painting but I believe the most effective. I teach both traditional and digital art at the university level and the traditional painters have a much easier time transitioning than those with limited painting experience. Course everyone is different and I may be completely wrong for any particular individual.
3. Drawing and painting are similar in the fact that both are done to represent the 3D world around us on a 2D surface. Aspects of each can be used in the other but they are very different methods of representing the world around us. Drawing is basically a linear process where the object is defined by drawing boundries between adjacent objects. Painting is a tonal process where the an object is represented by areas of color and value placed next to each other. You can have linear elements in painting and tonal elements in drawing. All that painting really is, is getting the right value, color, and shape in the right size, next to it's neighbor and repeating this process across an image. If you knew nothing about your subject and simply were able to accomplish this accurate placement, your painting would look like what you were looking at. Of course these differences, rules, whatever you want to call them only apply to realistic painting. Decorative painting and drawing have completely different end goals.
4. The absolutely best thing that anyone can do who wants to paint and draw, is to draw. I know that sounds trite but it is true. It really does not matter what you draw as long as your do it. I carry a sketchbook everywhere. I have several in my pickup all the time. I believe it is also important to draw with a little different motive than we usually do. This motive is to draw just to draw. Most of us draw to try and make "pretty" pictures and receive compliments. You should approach a sketch book much like you would a diary. Draw assuming that no one else will ever see what you are doing. Pretty soon you will get past trying to draw "pretty" things and start to have some real learning going on. Now, you will probably eventually show what you are drawing but do not approach doing it with that in mind. Don't erase. You can spend more time making corrections than drawing plus the errors are where you are actually learning qiute a lot. if you are not going to be showing the drawing, then it really does not matter if youerase stray lines. Draw from life. I could go on for a long time about why this important but it is probably best left to another thread.
5. At this time in my life, I am painting digitally more often than traditionally. I hope this will balance our in the verynear future. I paint on the computer every day. i eventually will get back to doing both every day.
6. I rarely combine the traditional and digital. My painting audience is rather conservative and most galleries still feel traditional art is superior to digital. this is slowly changing but I get far more money for my oils.
7. I really do not think that the line between digital drawing and painting is blured any more than when working with traditional media. I still think they are fundamentally different in how they try to represent the world. Again, though, this is not to say that the tonal elements of painting can not find their way into drawing and vise versa. Often my drawings have a lot of tonal work. In case anyone is interested, I use Black Prismacolor pencils, Stabilo 8064 pencils, and Prismacolor Black Grape pencils.
Amy:
I mean that what is ever in the background is intentionally used in the foreground. In a painting like I am doing for this thread, i intentionally chose a green color to complement the colors in the figure but it could just as well been a sunset. The figure tends to reflect and pick up what ever color is around it. the brighter the color the more dramatic the effect. I have an exercise that I have beginning painting students work on. It is simply putting an egg in a box that has been lined with various colored paper. It is amazing how many paintings I get with the egg painted with grays but surrounded with color. it is an exercise in observation and learning to see the influence of the color on the object. It works the same way with the figure.
As far as the shadow by the right arm, it is simply me working into the background. You will see that funny shape disappear as the image progresses. Please do not hesitate to let me know if something looks funny. Right now, I think I have her head too big and will work towards correcting that.
I will write some on your updated piece asap. Sorry I am slow.
DBclemons:
You have given an excellent reply as to another reason why foreground color is put in the background and background into the foreground. I think your reasoning is sound and strong. I too, used black and white images for many years to use what ever palette I wanted and to help see the values. Now that I paint from the computer monitor, I generally will take all the saturation down in the initial stages of a painting.
Pushav. I will think about creating a tutorial. Thanks for the feedback on the watercolor one. It is good to know that people actually look at them :)
Forgive my spelling errors, it is late and I have ranted too long already. Morning is way to early. I will try and leave some remarks on individual works tomorrow. Cheesecake is darn good too....
Cheers
Don
Rebeccak
08-17-2005, 07:55 AM
Don,
Let me just be the first to say thank you for your many insightful comments here! I am thrilled that you have taken the time from what I am sure is a busy schedule to answer our many questions concerning digital and traditional drawing and painting. I appreciate the way you elucidate the subject matter and make these complex tasks seem approachable. Indeed the most fundamental principles of drawing and painting of any sort ~ value being the foremost principle for painting ~ are worth stressing again and again, as these are indispensable lessons which all artists must learn to master.
I really appreciate your sharing the bit about using desaturated imagery for years as well. Dbclemons did make an excellent point about using grayscale reference in order to freely choose his color pallette. This is great for me to hear, as I arrived at this conclusion rather independently, and feel rather pleasantly validated, as I am learning how to digitally paint having been trained to paint traditionally myself. I have just concluded conducting the Anatomy Review 003: SHADING TUTORIAL AND HUMAN SKULL EXERCISE (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=259291), in which folks produced some really fabulous Grayscale digital and traditional drawings and paintings of Skulls. It really validates what I tried hard to emphasize in the lesson, and what folks really astounded me with their creative grasp of, which is the greater relative importance of VALUE to Color. So thank you especially for that! :)
Thank you for answering each of my questions individually. I think as artists, we sometimes have things rattling around in our heads, and it really helps to be able to sound these questions and thoughts off of a seasoned professional such as yourself. One of the main things I love about this and other threads on CGTalk is this ability to use each other as sounding boards for the thoughts about art technique and practice which flitter through our minds all the time. Having a Q & A such as this is just invaluable, and I greatly appreciate your taking the time to so thoroughly answer all of our questions.
I really look forward to your continued contribution to this thread, which just grows richer and richer with each passing day! It is incredible to see the great amount and variety of work being done here, and the amount of focused energy being directed at this thread just amazes me. So a big thank you, Don, for really energizing this group and for laying out and reinforcing some of the most important and time~tested artistic principles for drawing and painting that exist for traditional and now digital artists! :)
Looking very much forward to your future contributions!
Best regards,
~Rebeccak
Let me just be the first to say thank you for your many insightful comments here! I am thrilled that you have taken the time from what I am sure is a busy schedule to answer our many questions concerning digital and traditional drawing and painting. I appreciate the way you elucidate the subject matter and make these complex tasks seem approachable. Indeed the most fundamental principles of drawing and painting of any sort ~ value being the foremost principle for painting ~ are worth stressing again and again, as these are indispensable lessons which all artists must learn to master.
I really appreciate your sharing the bit about using desaturated imagery for years as well. Dbclemons did make an excellent point about using grayscale reference in order to freely choose his color pallette. This is great for me to hear, as I arrived at this conclusion rather independently, and feel rather pleasantly validated, as I am learning how to digitally paint having been trained to paint traditionally myself. I have just concluded conducting the Anatomy Review 003: SHADING TUTORIAL AND HUMAN SKULL EXERCISE (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=259291), in which folks produced some really fabulous Grayscale digital and traditional drawings and paintings of Skulls. It really validates what I tried hard to emphasize in the lesson, and what folks really astounded me with their creative grasp of, which is the greater relative importance of VALUE to Color. So thank you especially for that! :)
Thank you for answering each of my questions individually. I think as artists, we sometimes have things rattling around in our heads, and it really helps to be able to sound these questions and thoughts off of a seasoned professional such as yourself. One of the main things I love about this and other threads on CGTalk is this ability to use each other as sounding boards for the thoughts about art technique and practice which flitter through our minds all the time. Having a Q & A such as this is just invaluable, and I greatly appreciate your taking the time to so thoroughly answer all of our questions.
I really look forward to your continued contribution to this thread, which just grows richer and richer with each passing day! It is incredible to see the great amount and variety of work being done here, and the amount of focused energy being directed at this thread just amazes me. So a big thank you, Don, for really energizing this group and for laying out and reinforcing some of the most important and time~tested artistic principles for drawing and painting that exist for traditional and now digital artists! :)
Looking very much forward to your future contributions!
Best regards,
~Rebeccak
AmyScott-Murray
08-17-2005, 09:10 AM
I second that!
Thanks for taking the time to answer all our questions and to write such an informative mini-essay!
I think I understand now about the background painting. My dad made me do that exercise with the egg when I was little, so I understand the idea, but it was a long time ago and I think I maybe need to do something similar again.
Back to work for me :)
Thanks again
Thanks for taking the time to answer all our questions and to write such an informative mini-essay!
I think I understand now about the background painting. My dad made me do that exercise with the egg when I was little, so I understand the idea, but it was a long time ago and I think I maybe need to do something similar again.
Back to work for me :)
Thanks again
default-rol
08-17-2005, 09:56 AM
Hi all.
"With traditional oils, you generally should paint... from thin dark paint to thicker light paint. This is based on several technical and practical reasons... Technically, you should always work from thin to thick in oil so the lower layers will dry quicker than the top layers. If you reverse this, your top layers will crack as the lower thicker paint dries."
Cheers
Don
Well now, THERES a revelation for me! :applause:
I fought tooth and nail with my "A" level lecturer over this point. She was adamant that thick oils should always go on first and you should glaze over the top of them to avoid cracking. It never made any sense to me after numerous attempts...
Thank you for clarifying that. :thumbsup:
[I feel like going back there and...*beep* *beep* :banghead: !!]
MIKE
"With traditional oils, you generally should paint... from thin dark paint to thicker light paint. This is based on several technical and practical reasons... Technically, you should always work from thin to thick in oil so the lower layers will dry quicker than the top layers. If you reverse this, your top layers will crack as the lower thicker paint dries."
Cheers
Don
Well now, THERES a revelation for me! :applause:
I fought tooth and nail with my "A" level lecturer over this point. She was adamant that thick oils should always go on first and you should glaze over the top of them to avoid cracking. It never made any sense to me after numerous attempts...
Thank you for clarifying that. :thumbsup:
[I feel like going back there and...*beep* *beep* :banghead: !!]
MIKE
TheDagger
08-17-2005, 01:45 PM
Another update. I made the head slightly bigger, moved the character little to the right and made some changes to the skin colour. I think I'll leave this the way it is now because I feel that I'm not getting forward with it anymore. Maybe I'll try to paint the other reference pose or maybe I'll just wait for the new ones. I think I need a fresh start and maybe I'll more willing to experiment with a new painting. :)
http://koti.mbnet.fi/dagger/model2v6.jpg
http://koti.mbnet.fi/dagger/model2v6.jpg
Samanthie
08-17-2005, 03:02 PM
New version. I sketched in color pencil, made a line drawing as Rebecca suggested. I ended up with this final image and I'm not unhappy with it. I know it is not identical to the figure but the best I can do..at least for today.:) Looking forward to the next set of photos. Oh and the tattoo is just a flower image I made.
dbclemons
08-17-2005, 03:08 PM
Well now, THERES a revelation for me! :applause:
I fought tooth and nail with my "A" level lecturer over this point. She was adamant that thick oils should always go on first and you should glaze over the top of them to avoid cracking. It never made any sense to me after numerous attempts...
Thank you for clarifying that. :thumbsup:
[I feel like going back there and...*beep* *beep* :banghead: !!]
MIKE
This is the traditional "fat over lean" rule of oil painting. Fat doesn't necessarily mean thick, just having more oil than what's underneath, that can be paint right out of the tube, or with more oil medium added. For glazing, bottom (lean) layers should have less oil in them, thinned with turps or spirit, and be completely dry before adding more paint. Certain pigments, also, don't work well in impasto layers, like browns, and some paints dry faster since they have less oil in them to start with, like blues and whites.
-DBC
I fought tooth and nail with my "A" level lecturer over this point. She was adamant that thick oils should always go on first and you should glaze over the top of them to avoid cracking. It never made any sense to me after numerous attempts...
Thank you for clarifying that. :thumbsup:
[I feel like going back there and...*beep* *beep* :banghead: !!]
MIKE
This is the traditional "fat over lean" rule of oil painting. Fat doesn't necessarily mean thick, just having more oil than what's underneath, that can be paint right out of the tube, or with more oil medium added. For glazing, bottom (lean) layers should have less oil in them, thinned with turps or spirit, and be completely dry before adding more paint. Certain pigments, also, don't work well in impasto layers, like browns, and some paints dry faster since they have less oil in them to start with, like blues and whites.
-DBC
Rebeccak
08-17-2005, 03:47 PM
Don,
Another question I would have for you would be regarding your first book, Digital Character Design and Painting. How did you get started in Character Design, and what prompted you to begin writing this book, which has gained international popularity? What has the feedback been like for you, having written this excellent resource for digital artists? And finally, are there any plans to author a book on Traditional painting methods?
Thanks! :)
~Rebeccak
Another question I would have for you would be regarding your first book, Digital Character Design and Painting. How did you get started in Character Design, and what prompted you to begin writing this book, which has gained international popularity? What has the feedback been like for you, having written this excellent resource for digital artists? And finally, are there any plans to author a book on Traditional painting methods?
Thanks! :)
~Rebeccak
zhuzhu
08-17-2005, 04:04 PM
o.f.d 06 (openCanvas 3)
http://usera.imagecave.com/zhuzhu/ofd06.jpg
http://usera.imagecave.com/zhuzhu/ofd06.jpg
Rebeccak
08-17-2005, 04:15 PM
zhuzhu,
Beautiful work so far!! :thumbsup:
One thing ~ the head is a bit small ~ I would make it a bit larger so it is proportional.
Look forward to more posts! :)
~Rebeccak
Beautiful work so far!! :thumbsup:
One thing ~ the head is a bit small ~ I would make it a bit larger so it is proportional.
Look forward to more posts! :)
~Rebeccak
donseeg
08-17-2005, 04:15 PM
DBC
Thanks for clarifying that. You are exactly right and I should have said that the layreing of paint is dependent on the oil content instead of just saying thick over thin. Thick over thin would be a subset of the greater fat over lean concept.
The difference between the drying time of colors is also significant as you started to mention. The earth colors tend to dry quite quickly while some of the cadmiums and dye based colors take significantly longer. Even within individual colors there are differences. Where an lead based white dries fairly quickly, a pure titanium white will take quite a bit longer. The paint films formed are also quite different. A lead based white forms quite a durable, opaque, and flexible paint film while a Zinc based white is quite transparent and brittle in thin layers. Even the identical color will be different from brand to brand. Not only in drying time but in the actual hue of the pigment. Pigments and paints are such long an complicated subjects. fortunately there are many good books published on the subject.
Rebeccak.
I became involved in character design when I worked at a game developer and i have freelanced a bit for various game projects and a film or two.
I thank you for the kind words about the book and I do hope that someone occasionally finds something useful in it. I never really thought of writing a book until Charles River Media contacted me and asked me if I would be interested. I really was not for a long while but eventually agreed to give it a go. I mean, i had never written anything longer than a shopping list and I was going to write a book...give me a break. The editor was very patient and helped make sense of my writing so I guess it worked out.
I actually do get quite a bit of feedback. I appreciate all of it. I carefully consider every comment especially any negative ones. For the most part, people are very positive and it has been a rewarding experience.
There are already too many books on traditional painting methods and I am not considering that. I am getting a bit of pressure from my publisher to do another book and I am actually discussing the idea with a few different individuals. the problem with writing a book is that you start to spend more time writing than painting. I like it the other way around.
I will be back later this evening.
Cheers
Don
This is the traditional "fat over lean" rule of oil painting. Fat doesn't necessarily mean thick, just having more oil than what's underneath, that can be paint right out of the tube, or with more oil medium added. For glazing, bottom (lean) layers should have less oil in them, thinned with turps or spirit, and be completely dry before adding more paint. Certain pigments, also, don't work well in impasto layers, like browns, and some paints dry faster since they have less oil in them to start with, like blues and whites.
-DBC
Thanks for clarifying that. You are exactly right and I should have said that the layreing of paint is dependent on the oil content instead of just saying thick over thin. Thick over thin would be a subset of the greater fat over lean concept.
The difference between the drying time of colors is also significant as you started to mention. The earth colors tend to dry quite quickly while some of the cadmiums and dye based colors take significantly longer. Even within individual colors there are differences. Where an lead based white dries fairly quickly, a pure titanium white will take quite a bit longer. The paint films formed are also quite different. A lead based white forms quite a durable, opaque, and flexible paint film while a Zinc based white is quite transparent and brittle in thin layers. Even the identical color will be different from brand to brand. Not only in drying time but in the actual hue of the pigment. Pigments and paints are such long an complicated subjects. fortunately there are many good books published on the subject.
Rebeccak.
I became involved in character design when I worked at a game developer and i have freelanced a bit for various game projects and a film or two.
I thank you for the kind words about the book and I do hope that someone occasionally finds something useful in it. I never really thought of writing a book until Charles River Media contacted me and asked me if I would be interested. I really was not for a long while but eventually agreed to give it a go. I mean, i had never written anything longer than a shopping list and I was going to write a book...give me a break. The editor was very patient and helped make sense of my writing so I guess it worked out.
I actually do get quite a bit of feedback. I appreciate all of it. I carefully consider every comment especially any negative ones. For the most part, people are very positive and it has been a rewarding experience.
There are already too many books on traditional painting methods and I am not considering that. I am getting a bit of pressure from my publisher to do another book and I am actually discussing the idea with a few different individuals. the problem with writing a book is that you start to spend more time writing than painting. I like it the other way around.
I will be back later this evening.
Cheers
Don
This is the traditional "fat over lean" rule of oil painting. Fat doesn't necessarily mean thick, just having more oil than what's underneath, that can be paint right out of the tube, or with more oil medium added. For glazing, bottom (lean) layers should have less oil in them, thinned with turps or spirit, and be completely dry before adding more paint. Certain pigments, also, don't work well in impasto layers, like browns, and some paints dry faster since they have less oil in them to start with, like blues and whites.
-DBC
Rebeccak
08-17-2005, 04:26 PM
Don,
Thanks for sharing these cool thoughts on traditional oil painting! That is one area which I would like to somehow address in this forum. While I LOVE digital media and admire those who excel at it, my heart still lies with oil painting ~ I miss doing it a lot, but the constraints of space and the sheer mess it creates are restrictive, so for the time being I will have to be content to use pixels. :) Don't get me wrong, that little thing known as Undo is the saving grace of my sanity! Painting in any form can be exasperating, and the "Undo" function means that I don't give up on painting entirely. ;)
If I were to create a thread focused on TRADITIONAL painting methods, would you be interested in contributing to that? I would really like to give some focus to Traditional Painting on the Anatomy forum, but frankly, I don't do a lot of oil painting now (tho would love to get back into it and pine for it on a daily basis). It would be great to get some of your thoughts on this. A Traditional Painting thread might be the perfect outlet for many of us who are really seeking that perfect creative outlet. Your advice on this and other subjects is greatly appreciated. :)
Thanks again for your contribution Don, and we all look forward to your posts! :)
Best,
~Rebeccak
Thanks for sharing these cool thoughts on traditional oil painting! That is one area which I would like to somehow address in this forum. While I LOVE digital media and admire those who excel at it, my heart still lies with oil painting ~ I miss doing it a lot, but the constraints of space and the sheer mess it creates are restrictive, so for the time being I will have to be content to use pixels. :) Don't get me wrong, that little thing known as Undo is the saving grace of my sanity! Painting in any form can be exasperating, and the "Undo" function means that I don't give up on painting entirely. ;)
If I were to create a thread focused on TRADITIONAL painting methods, would you be interested in contributing to that? I would really like to give some focus to Traditional Painting on the Anatomy forum, but frankly, I don't do a lot of oil painting now (tho would love to get back into it and pine for it on a daily basis). It would be great to get some of your thoughts on this. A Traditional Painting thread might be the perfect outlet for many of us who are really seeking that perfect creative outlet. Your advice on this and other subjects is greatly appreciated. :)
Thanks again for your contribution Don, and we all look forward to your posts! :)
Best,
~Rebeccak
pushav
08-17-2005, 05:10 PM
To Don seegmiller-
Painting is more fun comparaed to writing a book. I am familiar with the thin dark and work up to light method. That works the best when painting. Sometimes its hard because I am mainly a sketch artist and when you make tonal drawing it is best to work from light to dark. I noticed that you scribble on colors in spots instead of color flating your picture. Which method is better?
Your book Digital Character Design and Painting is hard to find. I tried looking for it in borders but they did not have it.
Thanks for the reply!:thumbsup:
Zhuzhu nice picture again!
And sorry Rebecca that I did not finish that "grayscale painting" lol. A new idea popped in my head and I my turn it into a painting.
Painting is more fun comparaed to writing a book. I am familiar with the thin dark and work up to light method. That works the best when painting. Sometimes its hard because I am mainly a sketch artist and when you make tonal drawing it is best to work from light to dark. I noticed that you scribble on colors in spots instead of color flating your picture. Which method is better?
Your book Digital Character Design and Painting is hard to find. I tried looking for it in borders but they did not have it.
Thanks for the reply!:thumbsup:
Zhuzhu nice picture again!
And sorry Rebecca that I did not finish that "grayscale painting" lol. A new idea popped in my head and I my turn it into a painting.
Rebeccak
08-17-2005, 05:14 PM
pushav,
Try this... (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1584502320/qid=1124295203/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/002-1624297-9281603?v=glance&s=books)
:)
No worries, pushav, lol. :) I am not a "subject" Nazi, either. Please post your image in the appropriate thread on the Anatomy forum so that we all may see it! :thumbsup: Or did you mean that you will be painting the figure for this thread, just in a different way from grayscale? :)
~Rebeccak
Try this... (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1584502320/qid=1124295203/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/002-1624297-9281603?v=glance&s=books)
:)
No worries, pushav, lol. :) I am not a "subject" Nazi, either. Please post your image in the appropriate thread on the Anatomy forum so that we all may see it! :thumbsup: Or did you mean that you will be painting the figure for this thread, just in a different way from grayscale? :)
~Rebeccak
pushav
08-17-2005, 05:23 PM
Thanks! only 32 buck now. My idea should be posted in the 2d wip thread. that would be the right thread for it. I could post my gesture of the composition.
SpiritDreamer
08-17-2005, 07:25 PM
Hi Amy:
When you're drawing or painting anything, a neat trick I learned is to not pay so much attention to the object you are painting, at first. But, pay more attention to the negative space that is created around it and within it. The negative space creates simple shapes, like pieces of a puzzle. If you check to make sure the negative space is the proper size and shape, along the way, then whatever the object is that you are rendering, will automatically be in the right spot or position.
Example: If you look at the negative space that creates the little rectangle between the top of her head and the inside of her elbow, you will see that your triangle is much too small. Either her arm is wrong or she has too much hair above her ear. Has to be one of the two. And the right side of the triangle on yours is too steep of an angle and not long enough. It is just a matter of making that triangle exactly like it is in the photo. If you do that, everything else falls into place automatically. It is impossible for it not to.
That rule applies to all the space surrounding the figure. And that principle applies to all the little shapes within the figure also.
Once you put the first piece of the puzzle down correctly, the other pieces will fall into place automatically, if you check the negative space around each piece.
This principle is just a different way of seeing what you are looking at. It works great and simplifies things and also keeps your figure in perfect proportion. Just something I learned a long time ago. You might already know it, I don't know.
Same rule applies to shadow. It makes a specific shape that lines up with another specific shape and so on and so on.
Try blocking in this figure with just colors of shadow and light that you see. Keeping in mind their specific simple shapes. Like pieces of a puzzle. Keeping in mind their relationship to each other. Don't worry about outline. Just use the principle of negative space. Simple shapes put together like a puzzle. That's all it is. It only becomes complicated in your mind if you don't see it that way.
Burne Hogarth used to take my drawings and draw his version (which was always correct) right on top of my original drawings. Kind of upset me at first, but after awhile I found out that I really learned alot that way. Even though I lost my originals in the process.
Now with the computer the same method can be used to teach and you don't have to lose the origional. Great!
Tried this method out on your picture. Hope you don't mind. I think it is a great way to learn and also to teach.
Used color spotlights, a little liquid lens for curves, and "just add water" brush for blending.
Hope this is of some help to you or any body else out there.
Take care
Glenn
http://artbyglenngallegos.com/images/AMY_2_pictures.jpg
When you're drawing or painting anything, a neat trick I learned is to not pay so much attention to the object you are painting, at first. But, pay more attention to the negative space that is created around it and within it. The negative space creates simple shapes, like pieces of a puzzle. If you check to make sure the negative space is the proper size and shape, along the way, then whatever the object is that you are rendering, will automatically be in the right spot or position.
Example: If you look at the negative space that creates the little rectangle between the top of her head and the inside of her elbow, you will see that your triangle is much too small. Either her arm is wrong or she has too much hair above her ear. Has to be one of the two. And the right side of the triangle on yours is too steep of an angle and not long enough. It is just a matter of making that triangle exactly like it is in the photo. If you do that, everything else falls into place automatically. It is impossible for it not to.
That rule applies to all the space surrounding the figure. And that principle applies to all the little shapes within the figure also.
Once you put the first piece of the puzzle down correctly, the other pieces will fall into place automatically, if you check the negative space around each piece.
This principle is just a different way of seeing what you are looking at. It works great and simplifies things and also keeps your figure in perfect proportion. Just something I learned a long time ago. You might already know it, I don't know.
Same rule applies to shadow. It makes a specific shape that lines up with another specific shape and so on and so on.
Try blocking in this figure with just colors of shadow and light that you see. Keeping in mind their specific simple shapes. Like pieces of a puzzle. Keeping in mind their relationship to each other. Don't worry about outline. Just use the principle of negative space. Simple shapes put together like a puzzle. That's all it is. It only becomes complicated in your mind if you don't see it that way.
Burne Hogarth used to take my drawings and draw his version (which was always correct) right on top of my original drawings. Kind of upset me at first, but after awhile I found out that I really learned alot that way. Even though I lost my originals in the process.
Now with the computer the same method can be used to teach and you don't have to lose the origional. Great!
Tried this method out on your picture. Hope you don't mind. I think it is a great way to learn and also to teach.
Used color spotlights, a little liquid lens for curves, and "just add water" brush for blending.
Hope this is of some help to you or any body else out there.
Take care
Glenn
http://artbyglenngallegos.com/images/AMY_2_pictures.jpg
Rebeccak
08-17-2005, 07:35 PM
Spirit Dreamer,
Awesome review!!! :bounce: Thank you for that!!! :) Amy_517 is going to be happy as peaches. ;)
~Rebeccak
Awesome review!!! :bounce: Thank you for that!!! :) Amy_517 is going to be happy as peaches. ;)
~Rebeccak
AmyScott-Murray
08-17-2005, 07:54 PM
I am absolutely as happy as several tins of peaches. Thank you very much for taking so much time to look at my work. I really appreciate all the help I've got on this thread, and yours especially. :applause:
Like with the colour reflecting thing, I've been taught about negative space before, but it was all so long ago.... I feel like going back to lots more sketches and really getting the proportions sorted better before I attempt another painting. I'll probably shelve this one for a bit - might go back to it later or might not.
Will try out another sketch (by blocking it out light & dark) and hopefully have something to show later tonight.
Rebecca (and everybody), this whole thread has completely revitalised my interest in drawing and 2D work.. I did no art at all for years after I left school, and then got into 3D a couple of years ago. I'd always looked on life drawing as a sort of necessary evil, but I'm really starting to enjoy it a lot more, especially as I get closer to a decent drawing.
Thanks to all and especially Spirit Dreamer.
Like with the colour reflecting thing, I've been taught about negative space before, but it was all so long ago.... I feel like going back to lots more sketches and really getting the proportions sorted better before I attempt another painting. I'll probably shelve this one for a bit - might go back to it later or might not.
Will try out another sketch (by blocking it out light & dark) and hopefully have something to show later tonight.
Rebecca (and everybody), this whole thread has completely revitalised my interest in drawing and 2D work.. I did no art at all for years after I left school, and then got into 3D a couple of years ago. I'd always looked on life drawing as a sort of necessary evil, but I'm really starting to enjoy it a lot more, especially as I get closer to a decent drawing.
Thanks to all and especially Spirit Dreamer.
Rebeccak
08-17-2005, 08:02 PM
amy_517,
Thanks for saying that, and I'm completely happy that this thread is getting you back into the groove of drawing again! That's super encouraging, and lets me know that this thread is definitely on the right track! :) Not that that's not obvious by all the great work being posted...and I'm thrilled that Glenn, Don, and Steven (and zhuzhu) came along to provide us all with welcome inspiration! :thumbsup:
~Rebeccak
Thanks for saying that, and I'm completely happy that this thread is getting you back into the groove of drawing again! That's super encouraging, and lets me know that this thread is definitely on the right track! :) Not that that's not obvious by all the great work being posted...and I'm thrilled that Glenn, Don, and Steven (and zhuzhu) came along to provide us all with welcome inspiration! :thumbsup:
~Rebeccak
pushav
08-17-2005, 09:01 PM
New pose
Wooden pencil and printer paper and a crappy scanner:thumbsup:.
This time I screwed up on the picture and I did not really look at the reference. Lol
A recession in my drawing skills, Sorry guy this was my first drawing of the day. Man I can do better.:shrug:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/pushav/sketches/lifedrawing6.jpg
Crit the mess out of it. lol.
Wooden pencil and printer paper and a crappy scanner:thumbsup:.
This time I screwed up on the picture and I did not really look at the reference. Lol
A recession in my drawing skills, Sorry guy this was my first drawing of the day. Man I can do better.:shrug:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/pushav/sketches/lifedrawing6.jpg
Crit the mess out of it. lol.
Rebeccak
08-17-2005, 09:36 PM
Pushav,
I think you have a really interesting style, and I'm not here to critique style. :) I do think you should try a full~on grayscale painting, as I think it would really help you improve how to see various parts of the image in relation to one another. Take a look at this Rubens copy (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=2509050&postcount=50) on the DRAWING WORKSHOP 001: Copying the Work of Rubens (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=262607) thread whichwas recently done by Mike aka default.rol. He really did an excellent job on this piece, and it shows the rewards reaped from trying to accurately copy from Reference in GRAYSCALE only. :)
I love your enthusiasm for this thread, and want you to get as much out of it as you can! So definitely keep pushing your work, and stick with one of your drawings, and do a full grayscale painting. I think you can go really far with this! :)
~Rebeccak
I think you have a really interesting style, and I'm not here to critique style. :) I do think you should try a full~on grayscale painting, as I think it would really help you improve how to see various parts of the image in relation to one another. Take a look at this Rubens copy (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=2509050&postcount=50) on the DRAWING WORKSHOP 001: Copying the Work of Rubens (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=262607) thread whichwas recently done by Mike aka default.rol. He really did an excellent job on this piece, and it shows the rewards reaped from trying to accurately copy from Reference in GRAYSCALE only. :)
I love your enthusiasm for this thread, and want you to get as much out of it as you can! So definitely keep pushing your work, and stick with one of your drawings, and do a full grayscale painting. I think you can go really far with this! :)
~Rebeccak
Rebeccak
08-17-2005, 10:29 PM
Guys/Gals,
For those of you working in GRAYSCALE (something I HIGHLY recommend doing for practice), there are NUMEROUS grayscale digital paintings tutorials to be found linked
>>HERE<< (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=259291), see Post #2.
>>HERE<< (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=259291&page=17&pp=15) is a demo on Additive and Subtractive Digital Painting techniques using Grayscale (see Post #251).
These demos are all to be found in the Anatomy Review 003: SHADING TUTORIAL AND HUMAN SKULL EXERCISE (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=259291) thread. If you are interested in learning how to SHADE in Grayscale either Traditionally or Digitally, then this is a good thread to look into.
Some great work is posted there! :)
~Rebeccak
(http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=259291)
For those of you working in GRAYSCALE (something I HIGHLY recommend doing for practice), there are NUMEROUS grayscale digital paintings tutorials to be found linked
>>HERE<< (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=259291), see Post #2.
>>HERE<< (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=259291&page=17&pp=15) is a demo on Additive and Subtractive Digital Painting techniques using Grayscale (see Post #251).
These demos are all to be found in the Anatomy Review 003: SHADING TUTORIAL AND HUMAN SKULL EXERCISE (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=259291) thread. If you are interested in learning how to SHADE in Grayscale either Traditionally or Digitally, then this is a good thread to look into.
Some great work is posted there! :)
~Rebeccak
(http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=259291)
pushav
08-17-2005, 10:39 PM
My realism style is ugly at times. When it comes to realism, at times I tend to quit it and go back to doing cartoons. In all sometimes I lack drive when it comes to realism. Kind of like right now lol! I got away with it in my college art classes years ago.
Rebeccak
08-17-2005, 10:45 PM
pushav,
Why do you think your 'realism' style is ugly? Realism is as hard a thing to master as a cartoon~based style, so I think it may be that you're more comfortable with cartoons, and fall back on that. But I think it's highly useful to keep trying to master Realism. We've ALL done PLENTY of horrid, good-for-the-dump only paintings and drawings. I've literally thrown out TONS of stuff that just reeked of arty badness. :) It's totally normal, and, as Hong said many posts back, everyone has a few thousand bad drawings in them before they get to the good ones. This is REALLY TRUE!!! For every 'good' drawing I've done, I've thrown away 7-10, no lie. It's important to just keep at it, and eventually, you will get better. I think it is important to stick to practicing a 'realistic' style, because then you have something to measure yourself against. It is part of the reason why this thread is so successful, because everyone has the photograph and each other to compare their work to and check their accuracy against. So I really just encourage you to keep at it, we will critique you, and we'll all gradually get better! :) You certainly have the drive, and I think if you keep working at it, and not relying on a 'cartoon' style, you will have no alternative but to improve, as is every artist's lifelong goal.
~Rebeccak
Why do you think your 'realism' style is ugly? Realism is as hard a thing to master as a cartoon~based style, so I think it may be that you're more comfortable with cartoons, and fall back on that. But I think it's highly useful to keep trying to master Realism. We've ALL done PLENTY of horrid, good-for-the-dump only paintings and drawings. I've literally thrown out TONS of stuff that just reeked of arty badness. :) It's totally normal, and, as Hong said many posts back, everyone has a few thousand bad drawings in them before they get to the good ones. This is REALLY TRUE!!! For every 'good' drawing I've done, I've thrown away 7-10, no lie. It's important to just keep at it, and eventually, you will get better. I think it is important to stick to practicing a 'realistic' style, because then you have something to measure yourself against. It is part of the reason why this thread is so successful, because everyone has the photograph and each other to compare their work to and check their accuracy against. So I really just encourage you to keep at it, we will critique you, and we'll all gradually get better! :) You certainly have the drive, and I think if you keep working at it, and not relying on a 'cartoon' style, you will have no alternative but to improve, as is every artist's lifelong goal.
~Rebeccak
pushav
08-18-2005, 12:01 AM
Yeah my realism style is ugly because it never comes out right. I don't know why it is just like that. lol. my realism is never all that real and it has a evident cartoony quality in my work (kind of like marvel comics comicbook artist). Back in the day my professor told me to rip up a few of my drawings cuz they were not "real enuff" and told me to put my work in a folder that he had labeled "kid sh!#" (you know the "s" word lol). I did not listen to him. I was happy just to get out of the class. There was way too much classical art and theories for my tastes.
AmyScott-Murray
08-18-2005, 12:11 AM
Once you put the first piece of the puzzle down correctly, the other pieces will fall into place automatically, if you check the negative space around each piece.
This principle is just a different way of seeing what you are looking at. It works great and simplifies things and also keeps your figure in perfect proportion. Just something I learned a long time ago. You might already know it, I don't know.
This is so true! It's all coming back to me.. this is the way I used to draw before a teacher made us all measure with pencils and divide the paper into sevenths etc. (No criticism of people who prefer this method, but it doesn't really work for me... )
I feel like this is coming on better than the first one (or certainly quicker :) )
Here is my next attempt
http://www.grannys-attic.co.uk/images/amy's/drawing6.jpg
Any comments on the anatomy and proportions very very welcome.
Thanks
Amy
This principle is just a different way of seeing what you are looking at. It works great and simplifies things and also keeps your figure in perfect proportion. Just something I learned a long time ago. You might already know it, I don't know.
This is so true! It's all coming back to me.. this is the way I used to draw before a teacher made us all measure with pencils and divide the paper into sevenths etc. (No criticism of people who prefer this method, but it doesn't really work for me... )
I feel like this is coming on better than the first one (or certainly quicker :) )
Here is my next attempt
http://www.grannys-attic.co.uk/images/amy's/drawing6.jpg
Any comments on the anatomy and proportions very very welcome.
Thanks
Amy
SpiritDreamer
08-18-2005, 12:31 AM
Hi Amy
Glad my little thought helped you out some!
Looking GOOD so far!
It is alot easier once you se it this way - for me anyway, too.
Look forward to seeing the progress!
try the "just add water" brush to smooth the edges and bring background color into the figure, to give it atmosphere, if you feel like it. :)
Take Care
Glenn
Glad my little thought helped you out some!
Looking GOOD so far!
It is alot easier once you se it this way - for me anyway, too.
Look forward to seeing the progress!
try the "just add water" brush to smooth the edges and bring background color into the figure, to give it atmosphere, if you feel like it. :)
Take Care
Glenn
SpiritDreamer
08-18-2005, 12:40 AM
Hi Pushav
I am Glenn's "wife" Jessica (who does the typing.) I wanted to tell you that I really like your last drawing. I like the face and the large hand, too (and the hair also)....
So...to heck with the photograph...it could be a reference for the difficult pose alone...but what do I know?
Glenn likes it too, He says it reminds him of Picasso...
He also says "Don't tell Rebecca" lol
I am Glenn's "wife" Jessica (who does the typing.) I wanted to tell you that I really like your last drawing. I like the face and the large hand, too (and the hair also)....
So...to heck with the photograph...it could be a reference for the difficult pose alone...but what do I know?
Glenn likes it too, He says it reminds him of Picasso...
He also says "Don't tell Rebecca" lol
Rebeccak
08-18-2005, 12:52 AM
Spirit Dreamer and Mrs. Spirit Dreamer,
Lol, this is hilarious! I've never seen a tag team typing duo before, but it's great! From now on, we are all going to be wondering, now, is this Spirit Dreamer doing the talking or is it Mrs. Spirit Dreamer masquerading as Spirit Dreamer? :applause: Very funny! :)
No, in truth, I rather like Pushav's style as well. :) ~ As with Queensoul's original piece, I do not mind that the proportions are different than those of the models ~ we are all unique individuals, and all I really care about is that the figures being drawn are proportional to themselves.
Notice that I rarely mention the issue of "style" ~ my main concern with you, Pushav, is that you carry a piece through to the end and do a great job on a piece using only VALUE and not Color to define form. I think you were getting lost in the former pieces because Color was primary. I simply think that it's best to do VALUE studies, as they are inVALUable, haha, for learning how to paint and draw. :)
EDIT: Lol, Mrs. Spirit Dreamer is right, the photograph doesn't matter ~ you are not going to be hanging your photo reference next to your painting. Expression is something that is natural, and I absolutely encourage expression, so long as the artist is true to his/her own internal set of rules, and is in control of them. Lack of control is never expression. Expression is derived naturally, and I think Pushav, you have a natural sense of expression which I never thought was wrong. ;)
amy_517,
I think that your proportions on this piece are much, much better, and I am thrilled to see you take things back to the basics to do a Value study. I really believe that you will find this a rewarding exercise, and the sharpness of your 'sight' will increase as a result ~ meaning, that you will begin to see things that you had not formerly seen when trying to resolve a color study. Keep going, you are most definitely on the right track! Thank you for posting this. :)
~Rebeccak
Lol, this is hilarious! I've never seen a tag team typing duo before, but it's great! From now on, we are all going to be wondering, now, is this Spirit Dreamer doing the talking or is it Mrs. Spirit Dreamer masquerading as Spirit Dreamer? :applause: Very funny! :)
No, in truth, I rather like Pushav's style as well. :) ~ As with Queensoul's original piece, I do not mind that the proportions are different than those of the models ~ we are all unique individuals, and all I really care about is that the figures being drawn are proportional to themselves.
Notice that I rarely mention the issue of "style" ~ my main concern with you, Pushav, is that you carry a piece through to the end and do a great job on a piece using only VALUE and not Color to define form. I think you were getting lost in the former pieces because Color was primary. I simply think that it's best to do VALUE studies, as they are inVALUable, haha, for learning how to paint and draw. :)
EDIT: Lol, Mrs. Spirit Dreamer is right, the photograph doesn't matter ~ you are not going to be hanging your photo reference next to your painting. Expression is something that is natural, and I absolutely encourage expression, so long as the artist is true to his/her own internal set of rules, and is in control of them. Lack of control is never expression. Expression is derived naturally, and I think Pushav, you have a natural sense of expression which I never thought was wrong. ;)
amy_517,
I think that your proportions on this piece are much, much better, and I am thrilled to see you take things back to the basics to do a Value study. I really believe that you will find this a rewarding exercise, and the sharpness of your 'sight' will increase as a result ~ meaning, that you will begin to see things that you had not formerly seen when trying to resolve a color study. Keep going, you are most definitely on the right track! Thank you for posting this. :)
~Rebeccak
pushav
08-18-2005, 12:52 AM
To Spiritdreamer(s) Lol. Yeah Thats what I get when I draw on a flat surface (disproportional figures). Her head is huge. I noticed that even when I gestured out the figure. I am tempted to do a cartoon figure. Maybe I am messing up because I am drawing on 8 by 11 printer paper and not in my larger sketchbook.
Hey Spiritdreamer now that your wife is back how 'bout that tutorial:D.
Hey Spiritdreamer now that your wife is back how 'bout that tutorial:D.
SpiritDreamer
08-18-2005, 01:01 AM
Rebecca this is Spirit Dreamer (for real)
I can't take her anywhere, ha ha.
We just thought we would stir the pot a little to keep it humorous...
Now back to serious business...
Glenn
Pushav:
Spirit Dreamer here...
If you are having problems drawing from the photo, you could try blocking it out like I did on my first painting on page 11.
Just to experiment.
Might solve your problem, I don't know. It is worth a try.
Take care
Glenn
I can't take her anywhere, ha ha.
We just thought we would stir the pot a little to keep it humorous...
Now back to serious business...
Glenn
Pushav:
Spirit Dreamer here...
If you are having problems drawing from the photo, you could try blocking it out like I did on my first painting on page 11.
Just to experiment.
Might solve your problem, I don't know. It is worth a try.
Take care
Glenn
Rebeccak
08-18-2005, 01:05 AM
Everyone,
This is Bob, otherwise known as Rebeccak. Lol, I really had you fooled. The avatar? Got it from a garage sale. I'm an 87 year old man who wears Depends and whose favorite hobby is listening to NPR. Get used to it. I'm Bob, and I'm here to stay.
:scream:
I know that some of you are probably keenly disturbed right now...okay, no more spam from me. Move it along, people! :)
;)
~Rebeccak
This is Bob, otherwise known as Rebeccak. Lol, I really had you fooled. The avatar? Got it from a garage sale. I'm an 87 year old man who wears Depends and whose favorite hobby is listening to NPR. Get used to it. I'm Bob, and I'm here to stay.
:scream:
I know that some of you are probably keenly disturbed right now...okay, no more spam from me. Move it along, people! :)
;)
~Rebeccak
pushav
08-18-2005, 01:10 AM
Here is more spam!
my grayscale painting with my super secret paintbrush (in painter7 (you know the version with the worst watercolor brush in history)). here it is....... done with my mouse cuz' i am too lazy to reach for my wacom graphire 2 with 512 points of pressure sensitivity.:)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/pushav/color/lifedrawing5wippainter2.jpg
More crits.
Oh yeah, hey spiritdreamer, is there a way to open 2 documents in painter to I can have the picture open in one window and paint in the other so i can paint a more accurate picture or are you on a dual screened pc or mac?
my grayscale painting with my super secret paintbrush (in painter7 (you know the version with the worst watercolor brush in history)). here it is....... done with my mouse cuz' i am too lazy to reach for my wacom graphire 2 with 512 points of pressure sensitivity.:)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/pushav/color/lifedrawing5wippainter2.jpg
More crits.
Oh yeah, hey spiritdreamer, is there a way to open 2 documents in painter to I can have the picture open in one window and paint in the other so i can paint a more accurate picture or are you on a dual screened pc or mac?
tateSrey
08-18-2005, 01:20 AM
Hi all,
I posted these earlier last week, but I exceeded my bandwidth limit 4 hours after posting them. Didn't realize how much traffic goes through a single thread here. :)
I spent roughly 5 minutes on each.
http://members.cox.net/bsrey/sketches/sketch_01a2.jpg
http://members.cox.net/bsrey/sketches/sketch_01a.jpg
http://members.cox.net/bsrey/sketches/sketch_01b.jpg
Tate
I posted these earlier last week, but I exceeded my bandwidth limit 4 hours after posting them. Didn't realize how much traffic goes through a single thread here. :)
I spent roughly 5 minutes on each.
http://members.cox.net/bsrey/sketches/sketch_01a2.jpg
http://members.cox.net/bsrey/sketches/sketch_01a.jpg
http://members.cox.net/bsrey/sketches/sketch_01b.jpg
Tate
Rebeccak
08-18-2005, 01:22 AM
pushav,
No crits so far, but a suggestion ~ immediately darken the bkgrd so that your figure is automatically lighter by contrast. Now, as soon as I post this I am sure you will have an update and my point will be moot. :scream: ~But I am going to point that out anyway. ;)
Pick the area which is your darkest dark, and also the lightest light, as Don talked about previously. This gives you the endpoints of the full spectrum of values which you will be using.
Then, proceed to build the puzzle, as Spirit Dreamer was describing, with VALUES as your building blocks / puzzle pieces. Trust me, using values only makes the puzzle much easier to assemble, and you will soon be in good shape. :)
~Rebeccak
No crits so far, but a suggestion ~ immediately darken the bkgrd so that your figure is automatically lighter by contrast. Now, as soon as I post this I am sure you will have an update and my point will be moot. :scream: ~But I am going to point that out anyway. ;)
Pick the area which is your darkest dark, and also the lightest light, as Don talked about previously. This gives you the endpoints of the full spectrum of values which you will be using.
Then, proceed to build the puzzle, as Spirit Dreamer was describing, with VALUES as your building blocks / puzzle pieces. Trust me, using values only makes the puzzle much easier to assemble, and you will soon be in good shape. :)
~Rebeccak
pushav
08-18-2005, 01:35 AM
This time I did not have another image uploaded rebecca. Here is my new image....
Painter 7 and mouse people
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/pushav/color/lifedrawing5wippainter3.jpg
Any crits?
Painter 7 and mouse people
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/pushav/color/lifedrawing5wippainter3.jpg
Any crits?
pushav
08-18-2005, 01:56 AM
Here is a quick update. Still using my mouse and painter 7.....
Some custom just add water brush
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/pushav/color/lifedrawing5wippainter4.jpg
Any crits?
Some custom just add water brush
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/pushav/color/lifedrawing5wippainter4.jpg
Any crits?
Rebeccak
08-18-2005, 02:03 AM
Pushav,
All kidding aside ~ please only post maybe 2 updates per day, and then only if they're SIGNIFICANT ones. This is stated in the rules at the beginning of the thread. I appreciate your enthusiasm for the thread, but seriously, dude, only post significant updates.
Thanks,
~Rebeccak
All kidding aside ~ please only post maybe 2 updates per day, and then only if they're SIGNIFICANT ones. This is stated in the rules at the beginning of the thread. I appreciate your enthusiasm for the thread, but seriously, dude, only post significant updates.
Thanks,
~Rebeccak
pushav
08-18-2005, 02:08 AM
I needed feedback on this. I never tried a fineart painting before like this. Because usually I would finish stuff but peole always come to me can ask why did not you do this or that before you did this and the picture is all messed up.
SpiritDreamer
08-18-2005, 02:40 AM
pushav
Yes you can open two at once...I had a problem also til I finally figured it out. Was trying to run two programs at once and etc.
It is really advantageous to have them the same size, side by side
So...
First of course, download the photograph.
First (in Painter) open the photograph.
(don't resize using restore/maximize in the top right corner)
Instead...Grab hold of the edge of the right frame of the window that photograph is in and draw it all the way to the right
and then grab the bottom frame and draw it all the way to the bottom
Then grab the left side of window with photograph and pull it to the middle of the screen, Then your phograph will be in a box on the right.
If you want to make it larger, do it now by using the Zoom-in under Windows menu on the toolbar. (you can't do it later, I don't think)
Now open the picture you are working on, or a blank canvas to start out.
This picture you grab on the right edge of the frame and drag it to the left side of screen. Do not overlap them.
Now you have the picture you are working on on the left and the reference on the right.
Let me know if this makes sense. If not I will try to explain it differently.
The liquid lens brush will not work while the tool box is over the photgraph, it has to be in the box that you are working on...
And seriously, try to experiment with that block in method, I mentioned, that way you'll stay away from lines at the start. And you'll be working with volumes instead. And do the puzzle thing. And don't worry about lines. Alot of the old masters only put a very few lines and it was right at the end of their painting, just for accentuation.
Try this and I think you will be happy!
Good Luck! Glenn:)
Yes you can open two at once...I had a problem also til I finally figured it out. Was trying to run two programs at once and etc.
It is really advantageous to have them the same size, side by side
So...
First of course, download the photograph.
First (in Painter) open the photograph.
(don't resize using restore/maximize in the top right corner)
Instead...Grab hold of the edge of the right frame of the window that photograph is in and draw it all the way to the right
and then grab the bottom frame and draw it all the way to the bottom
Then grab the left side of window with photograph and pull it to the middle of the screen, Then your phograph will be in a box on the right.
If you want to make it larger, do it now by using the Zoom-in under Windows menu on the toolbar. (you can't do it later, I don't think)
Now open the picture you are working on, or a blank canvas to start out.
This picture you grab on the right edge of the frame and drag it to the left side of screen. Do not overlap them.
Now you have the picture you are working on on the left and the reference on the right.
Let me know if this makes sense. If not I will try to explain it differently.
The liquid lens brush will not work while the tool box is over the photgraph, it has to be in the box that you are working on...
And seriously, try to experiment with that block in method, I mentioned, that way you'll stay away from lines at the start. And you'll be working with volumes instead. And do the puzzle thing. And don't worry about lines. Alot of the old masters only put a very few lines and it was right at the end of their painting, just for accentuation.
Try this and I think you will be happy!
Good Luck! Glenn:)
Rebeccak
08-18-2005, 02:44 AM
Gahhhhhhh!!! Ah, Pushav, I'm sorry. :) ~Are you related to my mom? Because she is EXCELLENT at giving guilt trips, too. ;)
Sorry about that then, I feel like a jerk. :rolleyes:
Ok.
It may seem scary, but put a 100% opacity black somewhere in the background. You need not put a lot, but put some, bordering the figure in a particular area that makes sense, say, behind her right side.
Now, add a pure white somewhere on the figure that makes sense ~ say, the highlights on the hair.
While you may not keep these pure values, they sort of calibrate your picture for you ~ they give you the maximum range on either side of the value scale, so that you have a vast free range of grays between black and white.
It is easy to get stuck in the middle range grays, and feel too timid to go too light or too dark. If you just lay these values down from the get go, they really will expand your value possibilities exponentially.
If you have an update tonight, please do post it, and forgive my rudeness. :)
~Rebeccak
Sorry about that then, I feel like a jerk. :rolleyes:
Ok.
It may seem scary, but put a 100% opacity black somewhere in the background. You need not put a lot, but put some, bordering the figure in a particular area that makes sense, say, behind her right side.
Now, add a pure white somewhere on the figure that makes sense ~ say, the highlights on the hair.
While you may not keep these pure values, they sort of calibrate your picture for you ~ they give you the maximum range on either side of the value scale, so that you have a vast free range of grays between black and white.
It is easy to get stuck in the middle range grays, and feel too timid to go too light or too dark. If you just lay these values down from the get go, they really will expand your value possibilities exponentially.
If you have an update tonight, please do post it, and forgive my rudeness. :)
~Rebeccak
Rebeccak
08-18-2005, 02:51 AM
Pushav,
Ok, here I'm showing a demo that I put together for the Lesson 003 thread (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=259291). Ignore the fact that it's a skull, and just take this demo at it's face (haha! face) *cough* value: how to build FORM through VALUE only. :)
Bear in mind, I didn't finish the piece, but it demonstrates the basic steps that I take in Photoshop to build form gradually with transparent brushstrokes of black, white, and gray: :)
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop_III_Shading_SKULL/My-Skull_PROGRESSION_DEMO-3.jpg
Continued in next post...
Ok, here I'm showing a demo that I put together for the Lesson 003 thread (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=259291). Ignore the fact that it's a skull, and just take this demo at it's face (haha! face) *cough* value: how to build FORM through VALUE only. :)
Bear in mind, I didn't finish the piece, but it demonstrates the basic steps that I take in Photoshop to build form gradually with transparent brushstrokes of black, white, and gray: :)
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop_III_Shading_SKULL/My-Skull_PROGRESSION_DEMO-3.jpg
Continued in next post...
Rebeccak
08-18-2005, 02:51 AM
Continued from Above:
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop_III_Shading_SKULL/My-Skull_PROGRESSION_DEMO-4.jpg
Hope this is useful :)
~Rebeccak
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop_III_Shading_SKULL/My-Skull_PROGRESSION_DEMO-4.jpg
Hope this is useful :)
~Rebeccak
Rebeccak
08-18-2005, 03:03 AM
Pushav,
Notice how in the skull image, I am using extremes of light and dark. It may be exxaggerated ~ you will not always want that dark a background with that light a foreground object ~ but it is done to make the point that using contrasting VALUES will give the subjects of your pictures definition and FORM. Don Seegmiller was really emphasizing this as well in his post.
So, again, I definitely recommend immediately adding darker darks and lighter lights to your picture in generalized areas. Do not focus on details at first ~ work from the big picture down to the small detail. You will always be going back and forth between the two ~ that is just how painting works. :)
Good luck, and definitely post your results! ;)
~Rebeccak
Notice how in the skull image, I am using extremes of light and dark. It may be exxaggerated ~ you will not always want that dark a background with that light a foreground object ~ but it is done to make the point that using contrasting VALUES will give the subjects of your pictures definition and FORM. Don Seegmiller was really emphasizing this as well in his post.
So, again, I definitely recommend immediately adding darker darks and lighter lights to your picture in generalized areas. Do not focus on details at first ~ work from the big picture down to the small detail. You will always be going back and forth between the two ~ that is just how painting works. :)
Good luck, and definitely post your results! ;)
~Rebeccak
Rebeccak
08-18-2005, 03:08 AM
Here is a really great example of a grayscale skull done by Slux, who participated in Lesson 003, and who did just a fantastic job. He posted many updates as well, and, as a result, got better and better. This is not his final skull, but it is the best version done in grayscale before he colored it by adding a color layer over top of the grayscale image and setting the blending mode to Hue.
http://draw.sluxweb.net/skull/skull-ps4.jpg
*image by and copyright of Slux*
~Rebeccak
http://draw.sluxweb.net/skull/skull-ps4.jpg
*image by and copyright of Slux*
~Rebeccak
pushav
08-18-2005, 03:29 AM
Gahhhhhhh!!! Ah, Pushav, I'm sorry. :) ~Are you related to my mom? Because she is EXCELLENT at giving guilt trips, too. ;)
Sorry about that then, I feel like a jerk. :rolleyes:
Ok.
It may seem scary, but put a 100% opacity black somewhere in the background. You need not put a lot, but put some, bordering the figure in a particular area that makes sense, say, behind her right side.
Now, add a pure white somewhere on the figure that makes sense ~ say, the highlights on the hair.
While you may not keep these pure values, they sort of calibrate your picture for you ~ they give you the maximum range on either side of the value scale, so that you have a vast free range of grays between black and white.
It is easy to get stuck in the middle range grays, and feel too timid to go too light or too dark. If you just lay these values down from the get go, they really will expand your value possibilities exponentially.
If you have an update tonight, please do post it, and forgive my rudeness. :)
~Rebeccak
Lol!
Don't feel bad after all, I am the people's champ.:buttrock:
But anyway when I greyscale in photoshop I usually use a custom hord brush I have with custom edges and set the flow on about 90 and opacity on 45-60ish and pic 2 colors of grey and then constantly use the alt key to get the other tones inbetween.
In painter it tends go get harder because the opacity levels are not the sames a photoshop.
Sorry for my ugly work dominating this thread. Lol:hmm:
Spiritdreamer thanks!:bounce: I will have to try this.
Sorry about that then, I feel like a jerk. :rolleyes:
Ok.
It may seem scary, but put a 100% opacity black somewhere in the background. You need not put a lot, but put some, bordering the figure in a particular area that makes sense, say, behind her right side.
Now, add a pure white somewhere on the figure that makes sense ~ say, the highlights on the hair.
While you may not keep these pure values, they sort of calibrate your picture for you ~ they give you the maximum range on either side of the value scale, so that you have a vast free range of grays between black and white.
It is easy to get stuck in the middle range grays, and feel too timid to go too light or too dark. If you just lay these values down from the get go, they really will expand your value possibilities exponentially.
If you have an update tonight, please do post it, and forgive my rudeness. :)
~Rebeccak
Lol!
Don't feel bad after all, I am the people's champ.:buttrock:
But anyway when I greyscale in photoshop I usually use a custom hord brush I have with custom edges and set the flow on about 90 and opacity on 45-60ish and pic 2 colors of grey and then constantly use the alt key to get the other tones inbetween.
In painter it tends go get harder because the opacity levels are not the sames a photoshop.
Sorry for my ugly work dominating this thread. Lol:hmm:
Spiritdreamer thanks!:bounce: I will have to try this.
Rebeccak
08-18-2005, 03:41 AM
Pushav,
*Whew*! Another crisis averted. :)
I seem to be having a lot of these lately... ;)
~Rebeccak
*Whew*! Another crisis averted. :)
I seem to be having a lot of these lately... ;)
~Rebeccak
maixaule
08-18-2005, 03:44 AM
thanks all people that do this web site, thi is my firt post and my englihs is verry bad .... but
this treat is amazing i cant belive that the people do this amazing work.
i congratulate all artis in the world that do anithing to do the live more beatifull whit this ...
i have no more to say that thanks all of you to inpirate people like me .....
PD: the live is meaningless if we dont have a reason to create .......and the art is the key .
this treat is amazing i cant belive that the people do this amazing work.
i congratulate all artis in the world that do anithing to do the live more beatifull whit this ...
i have no more to say that thanks all of you to inpirate people like me .....
PD: the live is meaningless if we dont have a reason to create .......and the art is the key .
pushav
08-18-2005, 03:45 AM
Pushav,
*Whew*! Another crisis averted. :)
I seem to be having a lot of these lately... ;)
~Rebeccak
Don't worry I am not one of those wild forum flamers.
Forums will always have conflicts. The question is how will the admins or mods handle them. I was an admin of a forum wayback and we had no conflicts. maybe because I am cool.:scream:
Hey spiritdreamer should it look like this...
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/5903/screenshotld3hs.jpg
The menus kinda get in the way. lol. control+h hides menus
*Whew*! Another crisis averted. :)
I seem to be having a lot of these lately... ;)
~Rebeccak
Don't worry I am not one of those wild forum flamers.
Forums will always have conflicts. The question is how will the admins or mods handle them. I was an admin of a forum wayback and we had no conflicts. maybe because I am cool.:scream:
Hey spiritdreamer should it look like this...
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/5903/screenshotld3hs.jpg
The menus kinda get in the way. lol. control+h hides menus
SpiritDreamer
08-18-2005, 04:30 AM
Hi Pushav
Yes that is the basic set up for the two pictures at once on Painter.
I would pull the photo all the way to the right to give room to make the picture bigger.
I close all the various menus except those that I am currently using. That way I have more room. I generally work in only one layer.* The only boxes I have on the screen are the color wheel and the brushes; and then when I use liquid lens I open that box and put it in the picture I am working on and when I am done with it I close it.
* Working in only one layer, everytime I get to a point that I like I do a "save as"... and give each version a number after the file name. I open it back up and work on that version and continue to do "save as" with a new number after the file name. For instance on the pictures I have on this tutorial I think I have at least 73 versions, each a step beyond the last. (Makes for a good development slide show later, too!) (and you can go back to any previous version at any time to develop it a different way or whatever) I usually put them in BMP instead of the Painter RIF format, that maintains the layers etc. Since I save so many versions, BMP seems to use less memory. I had some problems on an older computer when I was using RIF that I started using the BMP.
Hope this is a little help. Seems like you are on the right track.
(My typist is going to sleep now, though I will be reading any comments, you may not get an answer til in the AM.)
Take Care,
Glenn
Yes that is the basic set up for the two pictures at once on Painter.
I would pull the photo all the way to the right to give room to make the picture bigger.
I close all the various menus except those that I am currently using. That way I have more room. I generally work in only one layer.* The only boxes I have on the screen are the color wheel and the brushes; and then when I use liquid lens I open that box and put it in the picture I am working on and when I am done with it I close it.
* Working in only one layer, everytime I get to a point that I like I do a "save as"... and give each version a number after the file name. I open it back up and work on that version and continue to do "save as" with a new number after the file name. For instance on the pictures I have on this tutorial I think I have at least 73 versions, each a step beyond the last. (Makes for a good development slide show later, too!) (and you can go back to any previous version at any time to develop it a different way or whatever) I usually put them in BMP instead of the Painter RIF format, that maintains the layers etc. Since I save so many versions, BMP seems to use less memory. I had some problems on an older computer when I was using RIF that I started using the BMP.
Hope this is a little help. Seems like you are on the right track.
(My typist is going to sleep now, though I will be reading any comments, you may not get an answer til in the AM.)
Take Care,
Glenn
Rebeccak
08-18-2005, 04:44 AM
Tate,
Good to see you back online! :)
Here is a quick review, which I hope helps to point out the major points of the lay-in of the figure: :)
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/Tate_Review_SET.jpg
The main thing is to not worry about details / shading until you are confident that the main lay-in is correct. This is particularly important when doing traditional work, and even more particularly when doing traditional painting, as there is no Ctrl + Z in the traditional world.
You want to make sure that your axes, foremost in importance, are correctly aligned, and that the figure has not only a head but a neck which is aligned properly with the average direction of the spine.
To find the placement of the limbs, mark their narrowest points, and connect the dots to find their basic shape.
The last part of the basic lay-in is to superimpose the MAJOR CURVES of the figure overtop of the basic measurements which you have established. The key here is to SIMPLIFY ~ do not overcomplicate things, as you will end up adding random insignificant details in some places, and adding NO detail in others. Try to describe the torso (rib cage and pelvis) with as few curves as possible ~ offset them to achieve form and flow.
Hope this helps! :)
~Rebeccak
Good to see you back online! :)
Here is a quick review, which I hope helps to point out the major points of the lay-in of the figure: :)
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/Tate_Review_SET.jpg
The main thing is to not worry about details / shading until you are confident that the main lay-in is correct. This is particularly important when doing traditional work, and even more particularly when doing traditional painting, as there is no Ctrl + Z in the traditional world.
You want to make sure that your axes, foremost in importance, are correctly aligned, and that the figure has not only a head but a neck which is aligned properly with the average direction of the spine.
To find the placement of the limbs, mark their narrowest points, and connect the dots to find their basic shape.
The last part of the basic lay-in is to superimpose the MAJOR CURVES of the figure overtop of the basic measurements which you have established. The key here is to SIMPLIFY ~ do not overcomplicate things, as you will end up adding random insignificant details in some places, and adding NO detail in others. Try to describe the torso (rib cage and pelvis) with as few curves as possible ~ offset them to achieve form and flow.
Hope this helps! :)
~Rebeccak
pushav
08-18-2005, 05:41 AM
Alright Here goes another useless update rebecca lol!
This is what I have so far Spiritdreamer...... Thanks for the tips! (p.s. you can sell your slide show tutorials and get rich!) Make sure you and your typist get a lot of rest because tomorrow is a new day and I will have some questions lol:thumbsup:
Once again this thread is fantastic.
Wacom graphire 2 and painter 7
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/pushav/sketches/lifedrawing6wippainter.jpg
The big oil brush did not work me too well so I used a cutom chalk brush that I created and a custom normal hard round brush that I made in painter7.
And instead of using the liquid lens brush I used the smear/smudge brush. It is a nice trick to shape the figure digitally. I will work on this more tomorrow.
I painted this with the zoom at 100percent or 90percent something like that. I have to get in the habit of not concerning myself with details.
I guess that I am doing this right so far.....(this is my first ever 100percent all digital painting atempt. Viewer discretion is advised lol!
Crits anyone?
This is what I have so far Spiritdreamer...... Thanks for the tips! (p.s. you can sell your slide show tutorials and get rich!) Make sure you and your typist get a lot of rest because tomorrow is a new day and I will have some questions lol:thumbsup:
Once again this thread is fantastic.
Wacom graphire 2 and painter 7
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/pushav/sketches/lifedrawing6wippainter.jpg
The big oil brush did not work me too well so I used a cutom chalk brush that I created and a custom normal hard round brush that I made in painter7.
And instead of using the liquid lens brush I used the smear/smudge brush. It is a nice trick to shape the figure digitally. I will work on this more tomorrow.
I painted this with the zoom at 100percent or 90percent something like that. I have to get in the habit of not concerning myself with details.
I guess that I am doing this right so far.....(this is my first ever 100percent all digital painting atempt. Viewer discretion is advised lol!
Crits anyone?
belail
08-18-2005, 10:53 AM
Well here's my overdue updated version. It might not look that different but I have made changes. One of the big ones was trying to soften the edges and add that orange/red outline that I'm wondering if was produced by the fact that its a photograph or the way the scene was lit. The other is the face, which I'm still not happy with but I don't think I ever will be either. I've always had problems when drawing the head that's tilted at that angle. I think its got something to do with the fact that the jaw loses the obvious outline it would otherwise have.
I also colour corrected the whole figure to put some of the red back in it. I have guilt issues over this since I promised myself I would try not to do anything that I couldn't do with a traditional picture. Except for undo. You cannot take away my undos.
Note for next time: work on image that is larger than the original picture. For this I work on a template that was the same pixel dimensions as the photo. I'm wondering if this was causing me trouble with the details. At the very least it was causing some nasty aliasing with some of the tools at smaller sizes.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v16/Azazel/02_figure_col.jpg
I also colour corrected the whole figure to put some of the red back in it. I have guilt issues over this since I promised myself I would try not to do anything that I couldn't do with a traditional picture. Except for undo. You cannot take away my undos.
Note for next time: work on image that is larger than the original picture. For this I work on a template that was the same pixel dimensions as the photo. I'm wondering if this was causing me trouble with the details. At the very least it was causing some nasty aliasing with some of the tools at smaller sizes.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v16/Azazel/02_figure_col.jpg
Rebeccak
08-18-2005, 11:13 AM
belail,
Great going so far!! :thumbsup: I like the choppiness of the background, and really like that area right around her left armpit where you have a nice hard shadow contrasted with the softer shoulder area ~ I'm a sucker for edge contrast, what can I say! :)
The main thing I notice right away is that the axes of the face need to be parallel ~ ie, the axes of the eyes, nose, lips, chin, and brow all need to be at basically the same angle ~ right now (and I know this must be hard because you are working at such a small scale) I think that they are at mismatching angles, and that is what is causing her to look a bit unnatural. Also make sure that you determine the proper central axis of the face, as this will really determine the axes of all of the important features of the face.
Overall, this is coming along really well! :) I would suggest for the background, keeping it loose and desaturated, and focusing your energy and detailing on specific bits of the figure ~ ie head and torso. These should receive the most attention, as that is what the viewer's primary focal point will generally be.
Regarding the digital bit not straying from the traditional bit ~ don't shoot yourself in the foot. I kind of had this reluctance too initially because I felt as though I were "cheating" ~ however, now that I've worked with painting in Photoshop, I now consider painting with oils and brushes "cheating", lol! With oil paints and brushes I can get a tremendous variety of strokes and tonal values and colors in a matter of a few wide expressive strokes ~ in order to do this in Photoshop, at least on my machine, it would take ages to do this, and there is no tactile sense of brush to canvas! Also, having not chemically engineered the properties of oil paints and brushes myself any more than I programmed Photoshop or Painter or Maya, I now realize how dependent I am upon certain properties of traditional media which make my conversion to the digital medium a sometimes reluctant one. So, in short, I understand your concern, but realize that using traditional media is 'cheating' to some degree also in that what you are using is a tool ~ just as using Photoshop or Painter is using a tool, also. :)
Enough babbling on my part. Why am I awake, really? Who knows.
Keep going, and post your results! :)
~Rebeccak
Great going so far!! :thumbsup: I like the choppiness of the background, and really like that area right around her left armpit where you have a nice hard shadow contrasted with the softer shoulder area ~ I'm a sucker for edge contrast, what can I say! :)
The main thing I notice right away is that the axes of the face need to be parallel ~ ie, the axes of the eyes, nose, lips, chin, and brow all need to be at basically the same angle ~ right now (and I know this must be hard because you are working at such a small scale) I think that they are at mismatching angles, and that is what is causing her to look a bit unnatural. Also make sure that you determine the proper central axis of the face, as this will really determine the axes of all of the important features of the face.
Overall, this is coming along really well! :) I would suggest for the background, keeping it loose and desaturated, and focusing your energy and detailing on specific bits of the figure ~ ie head and torso. These should receive the most attention, as that is what the viewer's primary focal point will generally be.
Regarding the digital bit not straying from the traditional bit ~ don't shoot yourself in the foot. I kind of had this reluctance too initially because I felt as though I were "cheating" ~ however, now that I've worked with painting in Photoshop, I now consider painting with oils and brushes "cheating", lol! With oil paints and brushes I can get a tremendous variety of strokes and tonal values and colors in a matter of a few wide expressive strokes ~ in order to do this in Photoshop, at least on my machine, it would take ages to do this, and there is no tactile sense of brush to canvas! Also, having not chemically engineered the properties of oil paints and brushes myself any more than I programmed Photoshop or Painter or Maya, I now realize how dependent I am upon certain properties of traditional media which make my conversion to the digital medium a sometimes reluctant one. So, in short, I understand your concern, but realize that using traditional media is 'cheating' to some degree also in that what you are using is a tool ~ just as using Photoshop or Painter is using a tool, also. :)
Enough babbling on my part. Why am I awake, really? Who knows.
Keep going, and post your results! :)
~Rebeccak
Rebeccak
08-18-2005, 11:56 AM
The Dagger,
BTW, your piece came out really well, and I hope you participate in the next round! :)
I don't think the piece is yet totally finished, but I can appreciate your wanting to put it away for a bit. Some pieces are just for practice, and that's totally cool. :)
Thanks for posting, and hope to see more of your work on the next Figure Drawing Workshop! :)
~Rebeccak
BTW, your piece came out really well, and I hope you participate in the next round! :)
I don't think the piece is yet totally finished, but I can appreciate your wanting to put it away for a bit. Some pieces are just for practice, and that's totally cool. :)
Thanks for posting, and hope to see more of your work on the next Figure Drawing Workshop! :)
~Rebeccak
TheDagger
08-18-2005, 12:42 PM
Thank you Rebecca. :) I'll definetely be back for the next round. This workshop is a good place for practising and learning and it's great to see different artists working on the same subject as well.
Ego
08-18-2005, 03:28 PM
Woohooo Becca, I managed to finish all the other tutorials you did while I was away.
/me cracks knuckle. Lets go :D
/me cracks knuckle. Lets go :D
pushav
08-18-2005, 04:04 PM
I am painting thru a thunderstorm. Yay!
Anyway, I am begining to work on rendering the skin a bit more and added detail to the hair and I am starting to correct her right leg with a smuder brush I made......
Any crits? I need to know if I am going in the right direction.
Used painter 7 and tablet along with my custom smeary round brush and custom acrylic smudger brush that I imported from painter 9. (yeah I imported a brush from a new painter to and older version. It is possible)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/pushav/color/lifedrawing6wippainter2.jpg
Anyway, I am begining to work on rendering the skin a bit more and added detail to the hair and I am starting to correct her right leg with a smuder brush I made......
Any crits? I need to know if I am going in the right direction.
Used painter 7 and tablet along with my custom smeary round brush and custom acrylic smudger brush that I imported from painter 9. (yeah I imported a brush from a new painter to and older version. It is possible)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/pushav/color/lifedrawing6wippainter2.jpg
SpiritDreamer
08-18-2005, 07:00 PM
Hi Pushav
You are off to a good start. Doesn't matter what medium you use, chalk etc, to start with, but I do think if you are going to try to get away from being just a line work artist, not that that is bad by any means, I think you should start in oils. Oils are the best medium out there and it would gratly behoove and benefit you to get used to them from the start. Whether it be traditionally or digitally applied. What I find to be nice aobut them is if you over blend, which happens often, it creates another color that wasn't there to start with. So I end up putting the color that I think should be there over the color that I overblended. Behold a happy accident happens, the colors start to vibrate and become luminous. DaVinci's trick, I think? Can't be achieved with any other medium that I know of. It's kind of like when you put a pearled paint job on a car, which you don't see too often anymore, except maybe the "low rider" cars in San Fernando and East LA. Their cars are beautiful, the colors on them are unbelievably luminous. And sparkle and vibrate when the light hits them. They achieve this magical effect by putting layer upon layer - sometimes 40 or 50 layers of paint mixed with laquer and letting each layer dry thoroughly before putting the next layer over it. Same principle applies with oil paint, except linseed or walnut oil mixed with the paint pigment. You can ask Don about this he probably knows alot more about this than I do. They also vary each color layer ever so slightly until they get the desired color they are after. Same principle applies to figure painting or oil painting in general. I've been using the liquid lens as a tool to carve my figures and shape them like you would as if you are doing a sculpture. It's fast and helps me to get the rythm flowing in the figure. And to keep its spontenaity alive. Creating its curves and indentations etc. I then blend the rough edges it leaves behind with a blending tool. I've been using the "just add water" tool because it's the first one I came upon while searching for a tool to blend with. But I'm sure there are others that are probably better out there. Stipic mentioned one, I wrote it down and will test it out on my next painting. If anyone knows of any other blending tools in Painter I sure would appreciate it if you would let me know. Or I should say, let us all know.
Next I go to the apply surface texture tool, and tint my whole painting usually with the lightest yellow on the color scale. Just to give unity to all the various colors I start with. Becomes the common denominator or general color unifying all the various colors in the painting. Next I experiment with all the effects settings and tricks that Painter has to offer. Contrast warp etc etc etc. Just to see what effect they have on the painting I happen to be working on. If something happens that I really like, I save a version of it in the folder I have created for that painting and also write down how the effect was achieved. Very important to keep a written record for future reference unless you are gifted with a photgraphic memory. Ha Ha.
Finally the funnest part and most exciting part for me anyway, the colored spotlights.
Found in effects under lighting. These I really love and appreciate the most. They allow me to create an unlimited variety of dynamic drama. Using light just like the movie studios do,. More so in the past with black and white film. But, when you think about it, they learned all their tricks from the old masters of painting. Like Rembrandt Reubens DaVinci etc. While enough said for now, went on alot longer than I had planned. Made this little tutorial especially for Pushav, but hope it can be of some help to everyone.
Now I just hope I can get my wife to type it for me, Ha Ha. (Before she goes on strike and leaves me and goes to the beach)
And thank you again Rebecca for creating these tutorials.
They are all great and your teaching method is excellent and exceptional. Seems to bring out the best in everyone involved in them.
Have a great day
And take care, Everyone,
Glenn
PS Pushav, Get a black or dark purple background on your painting, so you can see the values and tones properly (like Rebecca says we should do... ):)
You are off to a good start. Doesn't matter what medium you use, chalk etc, to start with, but I do think if you are going to try to get away from being just a line work artist, not that that is bad by any means, I think you should start in oils. Oils are the best medium out there and it would gratly behoove and benefit you to get used to them from the start. Whether it be traditionally or digitally applied. What I find to be nice aobut them is if you over blend, which happens often, it creates another color that wasn't there to start with. So I end up putting the color that I think should be there over the color that I overblended. Behold a happy accident happens, the colors start to vibrate and become luminous. DaVinci's trick, I think? Can't be achieved with any other medium that I know of. It's kind of like when you put a pearled paint job on a car, which you don't see too often anymore, except maybe the "low rider" cars in San Fernando and East LA. Their cars are beautiful, the colors on them are unbelievably luminous. And sparkle and vibrate when the light hits them. They achieve this magical effect by putting layer upon layer - sometimes 40 or 50 layers of paint mixed with laquer and letting each layer dry thoroughly before putting the next layer over it. Same principle applies with oil paint, except linseed or walnut oil mixed with the paint pigment. You can ask Don about this he probably knows alot more about this than I do. They also vary each color layer ever so slightly until they get the desired color they are after. Same principle applies to figure painting or oil painting in general. I've been using the liquid lens as a tool to carve my figures and shape them like you would as if you are doing a sculpture. It's fast and helps me to get the rythm flowing in the figure. And to keep its spontenaity alive. Creating its curves and indentations etc. I then blend the rough edges it leaves behind with a blending tool. I've been using the "just add water" tool because it's the first one I came upon while searching for a tool to blend with. But I'm sure there are others that are probably better out there. Stipic mentioned one, I wrote it down and will test it out on my next painting. If anyone knows of any other blending tools in Painter I sure would appreciate it if you would let me know. Or I should say, let us all know.
Next I go to the apply surface texture tool, and tint my whole painting usually with the lightest yellow on the color scale. Just to give unity to all the various colors I start with. Becomes the common denominator or general color unifying all the various colors in the painting. Next I experiment with all the effects settings and tricks that Painter has to offer. Contrast warp etc etc etc. Just to see what effect they have on the painting I happen to be working on. If something happens that I really like, I save a version of it in the folder I have created for that painting and also write down how the effect was achieved. Very important to keep a written record for future reference unless you are gifted with a photgraphic memory. Ha Ha.
Finally the funnest part and most exciting part for me anyway, the colored spotlights.
Found in effects under lighting. These I really love and appreciate the most. They allow me to create an unlimited variety of dynamic drama. Using light just like the movie studios do,. More so in the past with black and white film. But, when you think about it, they learned all their tricks from the old masters of painting. Like Rembrandt Reubens DaVinci etc. While enough said for now, went on alot longer than I had planned. Made this little tutorial especially for Pushav, but hope it can be of some help to everyone.
Now I just hope I can get my wife to type it for me, Ha Ha. (Before she goes on strike and leaves me and goes to the beach)
And thank you again Rebecca for creating these tutorials.
They are all great and your teaching method is excellent and exceptional. Seems to bring out the best in everyone involved in them.
Have a great day
And take care, Everyone,
Glenn
PS Pushav, Get a black or dark purple background on your painting, so you can see the values and tones properly (like Rebecca says we should do... ):)
Rebeccak
08-18-2005, 07:11 PM
SpiritDreamer,
Awesome commentary, thank you for this!!! During the day it's pretty hard for me to look at nude drawings at work without getting my a** fired, lol! I HIGHLY appreciate all of the wise words you have to say to us, so thank you Mr. and Mrs. SpiritDreamer for the great contributions!! And, Mrs. SpiritDreamer, just look at all the typing you are so nicely doing as collateral. ;)
And thank you for the compliment. Lots of really great work going on!!!
Great stuff!!! :thumbsup:
~Rebeccak
Awesome commentary, thank you for this!!! During the day it's pretty hard for me to look at nude drawings at work without getting my a** fired, lol! I HIGHLY appreciate all of the wise words you have to say to us, so thank you Mr. and Mrs. SpiritDreamer for the great contributions!! And, Mrs. SpiritDreamer, just look at all the typing you are so nicely doing as collateral. ;)
And thank you for the compliment. Lots of really great work going on!!!
Great stuff!!! :thumbsup:
~Rebeccak
pushav
08-18-2005, 07:39 PM
wow! I whished that I would have seen your post before I started to work on my picture more spiritdreamer.:arteest:
Don't get fired Rebecca!:cry: I need you to give me your wise insight.:beer:
Painter7 and wacom
This time I used a brush that I like to call value separator number2 and a little just add water, acrylic smudger and a custom smeary round brush.
This is where I am at so far.........
Thanks you guys for the long statement. And to mrs. spiritdreamer thanks for typing for your husband!:bounce:
Now I'll give you my tutorial.:buttrock: Everyone else can try if they have painter.
Spiritdreamer I am going to tell you how to make a blending brush in painter(s) One of the best tools in painter along with just add water.
This is what I do.
1. Find a brush i like
2. right click on your mouse or press that button on your wacom pen to bring up brush selection menu. For example. Liquid/water should stuff like rake, bulge, just add water,etc... select Save variant and name your brush. Now select your new brush from the menu.
3. Then I tweak the brush. Usually under general in your brush option I set my blending brushes to soft cover. Now this is how you will make a normal brush a blending brush. Find well in the brush options and you should see some slider bars such as dryout, resat. and bleed. Turn the resaturation down to 0 (this means that no paint will be saturated on your brush. Kind of like a dry brysh in real life) Now bleed is the strength of the brush. I usually turn this down to a low level like 20 or something and I tend to keep my dryout maxed out most of the time.
4. After you have your settings in place, use the brush to see if you like it when you blend. If not then play with the settings once more.
5. after that right click on your mouse or press the wacom button again and click save varaint. It should ask do you want to overwrite your variant? and click yes/ok.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/pushav/color/lifedrawing6wippainter3.jpg
Any crits or questions?:shrug:
Don't get fired Rebecca!:cry: I need you to give me your wise insight.:beer:
Painter7 and wacom
This time I used a brush that I like to call value separator number2 and a little just add water, acrylic smudger and a custom smeary round brush.
This is where I am at so far.........
Thanks you guys for the long statement. And to mrs. spiritdreamer thanks for typing for your husband!:bounce:
Now I'll give you my tutorial.:buttrock: Everyone else can try if they have painter.
Spiritdreamer I am going to tell you how to make a blending brush in painter(s) One of the best tools in painter along with just add water.
This is what I do.
1. Find a brush i like
2. right click on your mouse or press that button on your wacom pen to bring up brush selection menu. For example. Liquid/water should stuff like rake, bulge, just add water,etc... select Save variant and name your brush. Now select your new brush from the menu.
3. Then I tweak the brush. Usually under general in your brush option I set my blending brushes to soft cover. Now this is how you will make a normal brush a blending brush. Find well in the brush options and you should see some slider bars such as dryout, resat. and bleed. Turn the resaturation down to 0 (this means that no paint will be saturated on your brush. Kind of like a dry brysh in real life) Now bleed is the strength of the brush. I usually turn this down to a low level like 20 or something and I tend to keep my dryout maxed out most of the time.
4. After you have your settings in place, use the brush to see if you like it when you blend. If not then play with the settings once more.
5. after that right click on your mouse or press the wacom button again and click save varaint. It should ask do you want to overwrite your variant? and click yes/ok.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/pushav/color/lifedrawing6wippainter3.jpg
Any crits or questions?:shrug:
Rebeccak
08-18-2005, 09:14 PM
pushav,
Here is a little review I jimmied up for you: hope it helps! :)
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/pushav_REVIEW_gifer3.gif
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/pushav_REVIEW_1.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/pushav_REVIEW_2.jpg
Hmm...damn gif. Finally! ;)
Pushav, try darkening the bkgrd and lengthening her form. Try to establish a rhythm in the body by using Opposing Curves. AXES are of utmost importance ~ these should always be put in first, and checked against and modified as you go along. It may be helpful to keep them on a separate layer to turn on and off as you go.
Always draw the head and neck BEFORE drawing hair. Hair doesn't exist in any shape without the underlying head ~ therefore, it is always important to draw the head FIRST. Also, it is easy to forget about the neck ~ make sure you always draw that, too.
Try implementing some of these changes yourself. At the very least put in a darker bkgrd, and work from dark to light. Bear in mind that VALUE trumps Color ALWAYS. ;)
Hope this helps. :)
~Rebeccak
Here is a little review I jimmied up for you: hope it helps! :)
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/pushav_REVIEW_gifer3.gif
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/pushav_REVIEW_1.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/pushav_REVIEW_2.jpg
Hmm...damn gif. Finally! ;)
Pushav, try darkening the bkgrd and lengthening her form. Try to establish a rhythm in the body by using Opposing Curves. AXES are of utmost importance ~ these should always be put in first, and checked against and modified as you go along. It may be helpful to keep them on a separate layer to turn on and off as you go.
Always draw the head and neck BEFORE drawing hair. Hair doesn't exist in any shape without the underlying head ~ therefore, it is always important to draw the head FIRST. Also, it is easy to forget about the neck ~ make sure you always draw that, too.
Try implementing some of these changes yourself. At the very least put in a darker bkgrd, and work from dark to light. Bear in mind that VALUE trumps Color ALWAYS. ;)
Hope this helps. :)
~Rebeccak
NOOB!
08-18-2005, 09:17 PM
hey thats nice pushav,i like.ewww i hate just add water,especially when u use oils,in traditional that wud be impossible haha.but thats a great job.
...so rebecca,when r u gunna pose nude for us? :drool:
wuhaha.
...so rebecca,when r u gunna pose nude for us? :drool:
wuhaha.
pushav
08-18-2005, 09:26 PM
pushav,
Here is a little review I jimmied up for you: hope it helps! :)
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/pushav_REVIEW_gifer2.gif
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/pushav_REVIEW_gifer.gif
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/pushav_REVIEW_1.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/pushav_REVIEW_2.jpg
~Rebeccak
I figured that I did not give her that turn. Time tor me to sketch over to get the proportion right.
NOOB! lol. Remember how you got banned off of the ledheavy forums and the other one! lol! Try not to make it 3 lol:eek:
Anyway what happened to team world domination.
Here is a little review I jimmied up for you: hope it helps! :)
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/pushav_REVIEW_gifer2.gif
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/pushav_REVIEW_gifer.gif
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/pushav_REVIEW_1.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/pushav_REVIEW_2.jpg
~Rebeccak
I figured that I did not give her that turn. Time tor me to sketch over to get the proportion right.
NOOB! lol. Remember how you got banned off of the ledheavy forums and the other one! lol! Try not to make it 3 lol:eek:
Anyway what happened to team world domination.
Rebeccak
08-18-2005, 09:27 PM
NOOB,
Erm...ha...ha...ha...ha...
When Leonardo DiCaprio ditches Giselle for me and we fly off to live in a mansion on the Aegean. Or never, whichever comes first. ;)
Wondering...hmm, are NOOB and pushav related??? Holy cow, the long lost Spam brothers!!! *Reunion Tour 2005!* :scream:
Erm...ha...ha...ha...ha...
When Leonardo DiCaprio ditches Giselle for me and we fly off to live in a mansion on the Aegean. Or never, whichever comes first. ;)
Wondering...hmm, are NOOB and pushav related??? Holy cow, the long lost Spam brothers!!! *Reunion Tour 2005!* :scream:
NOOB!
08-18-2005, 09:29 PM
I figured that I did not give her that turn. Time tor me to sketch over to get the proportion right.
NOOB! lol. Remember how you got banned off of the ledheavy forums and the other one! lol! Try not to make it 3 lol:eek:
Anyway what happened to team world domination.
dude that was like a year ago,and i was immature back then *not saying i'm not now...but i was worse*lol
quit bringin that up.
hahah rebecca.i'll just use ur siggraph pics as ref then.:thumbsup:
i didn't spam,i was commenting on pushavs work.
NOOB! lol. Remember how you got banned off of the ledheavy forums and the other one! lol! Try not to make it 3 lol:eek:
Anyway what happened to team world domination.
dude that was like a year ago,and i was immature back then *not saying i'm not now...but i was worse*lol
quit bringin that up.
hahah rebecca.i'll just use ur siggraph pics as ref then.:thumbsup:
i didn't spam,i was commenting on pushavs work.
Rebeccak
08-18-2005, 09:37 PM
Crap.
Ok, no more spam, guys. Got pictures? Post 'em. Got spam? Shelve it. ;)
*Grits teeth*
~Rebeccak
Ok, no more spam, guys. Got pictures? Post 'em. Got spam? Shelve it. ;)
*Grits teeth*
~Rebeccak
pushav
08-18-2005, 09:41 PM
No we are not related. Legend has it that NOOB! is one of my groupies from various comic forums. evertime I sign up some where later on Noob! finds it lol!
Anyway Noob! post a painting here. Show me what you can do with your new painter!
World domination! lol. Ok no more spam for a while.
Anyway Noob! post a painting here. Show me what you can do with your new painter!
World domination! lol. Ok no more spam for a while.
SpiritDreamer
08-19-2005, 12:28 AM
Hi Pushav
Thank you very much for the brush tutorial. Doesn't sound too hard the way you describe it.
I will put it to use as soon as I figure it out. I'll try it out on one of my old paintings to start with and let you know how it goes.
If I figure it out and it works for me, you will have proven that :
you can teach an old dog new tricks!:)
Thanks again!
Glenn
Thank you very much for the brush tutorial. Doesn't sound too hard the way you describe it.
I will put it to use as soon as I figure it out. I'll try it out on one of my old paintings to start with and let you know how it goes.
If I figure it out and it works for me, you will have proven that :
you can teach an old dog new tricks!:)
Thanks again!
Glenn
danielh68
08-19-2005, 01:00 AM
o.f.d 06 (openCanvas 3)
http://usera.imagecave.com/zhuzhu/ofd06.jpg
Zhu Zhu your work is exceptional. Fantastic stuff. Love the lost and found edges in this piece, it really keeps my eye flowing about.
I also like how you place emphasis on the torso by deconstructing the face and limbs. Very cool.
http://usera.imagecave.com/zhuzhu/ofd06.jpg
Zhu Zhu your work is exceptional. Fantastic stuff. Love the lost and found edges in this piece, it really keeps my eye flowing about.
I also like how you place emphasis on the torso by deconstructing the face and limbs. Very cool.
pushav
08-19-2005, 01:05 AM
Spiritdreamer, Make sure that you finder your brushes in your programfiles\painter folder so you can save them. There should be a whateveryourbrushmaneis.xml file (.xml file with your brush name) and there should sometimes be a jpeg with the name of your brush (that depends of painter uses a jpeg capture of your brush) If there is one then you will need to save that also. If your are in the newer painters such as 8 or 9 there will also be a whateverthenameofyourbrush.stk file and you will need to save that also. And there you go.
If you want me to I can send you some of my "VDZ blending brushes".
If you want me to I can send you some of my "VDZ blending brushes".
danielh68
08-19-2005, 01:07 AM
Oh, yeah, somewhere in the thread there was mention of starting a traditional painting thread...great idea! Time to pull the easel out of storage.
pushav
08-19-2005, 01:10 AM
Oh, yeah, somewhere in the thread there was mention of starting a traditional painting thread...great idea! Time to pull the easel out of storage.
Yeah this place is lacking traditional works here.
That is why sometimes I go to the wetcanvas.com forums. (good traditional artist there also. It is like cgtalk but traditional works wil little digital)
Yeah this place is lacking traditional works here.
That is why sometimes I go to the wetcanvas.com forums. (good traditional artist there also. It is like cgtalk but traditional works wil little digital)
danielh68
08-19-2005, 01:35 AM
Never heard of it. Thanks for the info, Pushav.
SpiritDreamer
08-19-2005, 01:43 AM
Hi Pushav
Thanks Pushav, it would be great if you could send me the brushes. I tend to get frustrated when I am dealing with new things (anywhere) but especially in these art programs!:eek:
Looks like you are having the same problem I had on that figure...it ends up being a
frontal view of the back (oxymoron?)
when it should be a 3/4 view.
What I did was take the liquid lens brush tool with a circle and compress that left side of her back , hip and left "cheek" down to about 1/2 of what they are now in your picture, and then blended and corrected til it looked right. Didn't lose too much of my detail on the shoulder blade by using the liquid lens.
Glenn
Thanks Pushav, it would be great if you could send me the brushes. I tend to get frustrated when I am dealing with new things (anywhere) but especially in these art programs!:eek:
Looks like you are having the same problem I had on that figure...it ends up being a
frontal view of the back (oxymoron?)
when it should be a 3/4 view.
What I did was take the liquid lens brush tool with a circle and compress that left side of her back , hip and left "cheek" down to about 1/2 of what they are now in your picture, and then blended and corrected til it looked right. Didn't lose too much of my detail on the shoulder blade by using the liquid lens.
Glenn
pushav
08-19-2005, 02:03 AM
Alright I just sent the brushs to your wife's email account. I even placed instructions in the email message.
So it looks like it will have to smudge the back in more and add a darker line for the spine and them smudge some more.
Your right spirit, It is like molding a clay figure.
So it looks like it will have to smudge the back in more and add a darker line for the spine and them smudge some more.
Your right spirit, It is like molding a clay figure.
dbclemons
08-19-2005, 02:18 AM
I've fallen behind again. I am reading all the posts, though. Hopefully I'll get this consignment I'm working on so I can get to the fun stuff this weekend. :P
SpiritDreamer, a good blend tool in Painter is hidden a bit in the Tinting brush, called Blender :).
The nice thing about it is it uses the grain setting which you don't get in Just Add Water. What version of Painter are you using? I have 7 at home, but 9 at work. 9 has several blenders that I've yet to mess with.
-David
SpiritDreamer, a good blend tool in Painter is hidden a bit in the Tinting brush, called Blender :).
The nice thing about it is it uses the grain setting which you don't get in Just Add Water. What version of Painter are you using? I have 7 at home, but 9 at work. 9 has several blenders that I've yet to mess with.
-David
pushav
08-19-2005, 02:24 AM
I've fallen behind again. I am reading all the posts, though. Hopefully I'll get this consignment I'm working on so I can get to the fun stuff this weekend. :P
SpiritDreamer, a good blend tool in Painter is hidden a bit in the Tinting brush, called Blender :).
The nice thing about it is it uses the grain setting which you don't get in Just Add Water. What version of Painter are you using? I have 7 at home, but 9 at work. 9 has several blenders that I've yet to mess with.
-David
Looking forward to this weekend to see your work. I have painter 7 and 9 also but I found out that the older painters are faster and more stable. I kind of left vesion 9 due to crashes.
SpiritDreamer, a good blend tool in Painter is hidden a bit in the Tinting brush, called Blender :).
The nice thing about it is it uses the grain setting which you don't get in Just Add Water. What version of Painter are you using? I have 7 at home, but 9 at work. 9 has several blenders that I've yet to mess with.
-David
Looking forward to this weekend to see your work. I have painter 7 and 9 also but I found out that the older painters are faster and more stable. I kind of left vesion 9 due to crashes.
allenatl
08-19-2005, 02:39 AM
Well, here's what I've got so far. May work on it some more on the weekend. Should I loose the line work and just go for straight painting?
http://www.allen3d.com/acfigwrkshop_bk_clr.jpg
http://www.allen3d.com/acfigwrkshop_bk_clr.jpg
Llynna
08-19-2005, 02:51 AM
i just gave it a try to keep up with all this good work and to do it in greyscale. the values arent right though and the hands and feet....... but i am too tired to work on it right now.
http://666kb.com/i/10ovimntu2akg.jpg
http://666kb.com/i/10ovimntu2akg.jpg
zhuzhu
08-19-2005, 03:30 AM
wow~! this thread is moving so fast! great works everyone.
[ofd 07] (pencil on sketchbook)
http://usera.imagecave.com/zhuzhu/ofd07.jpg
[ofd 07] (pencil on sketchbook)
http://usera.imagecave.com/zhuzhu/ofd07.jpg
pushav
08-19-2005, 03:48 AM
wow~! this thread is moving so fast! great works everyone.
[ofd 07] (pencil on sketchbook)
http://usera.imagecave.com/zhuzhu/ofd07.jpg
why zhuzhu? why? Why must you be so great:bowdown:
is that color pencil or prismacolor.
I would like to see you paint over this.
[ofd 07] (pencil on sketchbook)
http://usera.imagecave.com/zhuzhu/ofd07.jpg
why zhuzhu? why? Why must you be so great:bowdown:
is that color pencil or prismacolor.
I would like to see you paint over this.
zhuzhu
08-19-2005, 04:01 AM
why zhuzhu? why? Why must you be so great:bowdown:
is that color pencil or prismacolor.
I would like to see you paint over this.
thank you,i used Photoshop to adjust the color,let it getting warm,just look like classical sketch.
but i think it is not perfect yet,i will practice more. i have painted in digital for 3 years,so i should try to remember something on the real paper.
is that color pencil or prismacolor.
I would like to see you paint over this.
thank you,i used Photoshop to adjust the color,let it getting warm,just look like classical sketch.
but i think it is not perfect yet,i will practice more. i have painted in digital for 3 years,so i should try to remember something on the real paper.
pushav
08-19-2005, 04:13 AM
It is better to sketch on paper rather than digital. Plus you can make prelims for a painting faster. nice and soft feel to your work.
I atempted to make a vintage pinup girl like your from the tutorialand get that painting pastelish feel but I was unsucessful.
Oh yeah I also liked that female face that you did. The woman with the orange flower in her hair.
I atempted to make a vintage pinup girl like your from the tutorialand get that painting pastelish feel but I was unsucessful.
Oh yeah I also liked that female face that you did. The woman with the orange flower in her hair.
DrakeX
08-19-2005, 04:43 AM
Wow, I don't really deserve to post with all these amazing sketches :D
Well, I finally got my Tablet PC a couple days ago! And now I can sketch properly. At least it feels proper to me, contrary to what pushav just posted..
Here's my sketch. 15-20 mins, ArtRage. Did a sort of a figure sketch at first, and then the sketch sketch. Following Rebecca's advice to trace, of course ;) I'm not really pleased with the head or hands. Then again, I'm not really pleased with much of what I do now, since I'm a rather big noob.
http://jamesdunne.no-ip.org/~jarrett/girlback.jpg
Edit: ahh, might as well put the figure sketch as well:
http://jamesdunne.no-ip.org/~jarrett/girlsketch.jpg
Well, I finally got my Tablet PC a couple days ago! And now I can sketch properly. At least it feels proper to me, contrary to what pushav just posted..
Here's my sketch. 15-20 mins, ArtRage. Did a sort of a figure sketch at first, and then the sketch sketch. Following Rebecca's advice to trace, of course ;) I'm not really pleased with the head or hands. Then again, I'm not really pleased with much of what I do now, since I'm a rather big noob.
http://jamesdunne.no-ip.org/~jarrett/girlback.jpg
Edit: ahh, might as well put the figure sketch as well:
http://jamesdunne.no-ip.org/~jarrett/girlsketch.jpg
pushav
08-19-2005, 05:20 AM
Thats the ticket drake. I wish I had a tablet pc to sketch on every once in a while but there is something magical about using paper and pencil and a scanner. Yeah a tablet pc you can se what you are doing. With a normal table it is almost like you are playing a videogame. It really helps with the hand and eye coordination.
Yeah you learn things by tracing first but me I like to challenge myself and do everything freehand. My creative side of the brain is being overloaded when I do stuff like that.
Yeah you learn things by tracing first but me I like to challenge myself and do everything freehand. My creative side of the brain is being overloaded when I do stuff like that.
Rebeccak
08-19-2005, 05:52 AM
Wow, guys, some really great work going on here! :thumbsup:
danielh68,
Welcome to the Anatomy forum! Good to see you here. :)
allenatl,
Great start so far!! I would say, keep the linework for the time being. It'll be a good guide, but don't be completely dependent upon it ~ and, if you see something new, alter it by cutting, pasting, and tweaking it to taste, or by simply redrawing it. Good to see you keeping the piece with as few colors as possible so far...I would get the values in order first, and then gradually introduce color...or you may wish to use blending modes to introduce color over a completely grayscale image. Choose the method with which you feel the most comfortable.
The other thing I would advise would be to give her more of a neck ~ right now, her head is sitting a bit low, and if you draw a more elongated neck and a fully articulated head without the hair, you will see that her neck needs to be longer to match the proportions of her body.
Good luck, and looking forward to your update! :)
Llynna,
Great to see you working only in Grayscale! I would caution against using the same white everywhere for highlights ~ tho you can easily tone these down with a low opacity layer filled with gray over parts of the figure. Use more contrast between light and dark to draw attention to specific areas of the figure, and use less contrast to lessen the visual importance of others.
I would also suggest stepping back and looking at your painting from the standpoint of doing a drawing, and rethink the lower portion of the figure. As have most folks who have chosen this pose, you have made the buttocks and thigh far too large for her upper torso. So I recommend doing a new line drawing on a new layer to re~think the proportions.
But great start, and keep going, and post your results! :)
zhuzhu,
Nice to see your traditional work! I don't think I've seen it before, so it is a refreshing change. :)
I think her left arm is a bit thin. Her lower right arm is a bit short, I believe. There are just a few minor problems which could be fixed ~ I'll do a short review later, tho your work is really beautiful! :)
DrakeX,
Glad to see you posting your work! :) I would recommend taking a look at the first part of Lesson 002: Opposing Curves (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=255700). I think that the key missing ingredient to your drawing is rhythm and flow, which can be easily introduced by offsetting the major curves of the body in a rhythmic fashion. You have a good start here, and I'd like you to take a look at Lesson 002 briefly, and then try to rework your first image. If you have any questions, don't be shy about asking ~ it's what we're all here for! :)
Great stuff, guys, and keep it up! :bounce:
~Rebeccak
danielh68,
Welcome to the Anatomy forum! Good to see you here. :)
allenatl,
Great start so far!! I would say, keep the linework for the time being. It'll be a good guide, but don't be completely dependent upon it ~ and, if you see something new, alter it by cutting, pasting, and tweaking it to taste, or by simply redrawing it. Good to see you keeping the piece with as few colors as possible so far...I would get the values in order first, and then gradually introduce color...or you may wish to use blending modes to introduce color over a completely grayscale image. Choose the method with which you feel the most comfortable.
The other thing I would advise would be to give her more of a neck ~ right now, her head is sitting a bit low, and if you draw a more elongated neck and a fully articulated head without the hair, you will see that her neck needs to be longer to match the proportions of her body.
Good luck, and looking forward to your update! :)
Llynna,
Great to see you working only in Grayscale! I would caution against using the same white everywhere for highlights ~ tho you can easily tone these down with a low opacity layer filled with gray over parts of the figure. Use more contrast between light and dark to draw attention to specific areas of the figure, and use less contrast to lessen the visual importance of others.
I would also suggest stepping back and looking at your painting from the standpoint of doing a drawing, and rethink the lower portion of the figure. As have most folks who have chosen this pose, you have made the buttocks and thigh far too large for her upper torso. So I recommend doing a new line drawing on a new layer to re~think the proportions.
But great start, and keep going, and post your results! :)
zhuzhu,
Nice to see your traditional work! I don't think I've seen it before, so it is a refreshing change. :)
I think her left arm is a bit thin. Her lower right arm is a bit short, I believe. There are just a few minor problems which could be fixed ~ I'll do a short review later, tho your work is really beautiful! :)
DrakeX,
Glad to see you posting your work! :) I would recommend taking a look at the first part of Lesson 002: Opposing Curves (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=255700). I think that the key missing ingredient to your drawing is rhythm and flow, which can be easily introduced by offsetting the major curves of the body in a rhythmic fashion. You have a good start here, and I'd like you to take a look at Lesson 002 briefly, and then try to rework your first image. If you have any questions, don't be shy about asking ~ it's what we're all here for! :)
Great stuff, guys, and keep it up! :bounce:
~Rebeccak
Rebeccak
08-19-2005, 06:24 AM
Here is a little demo originally posted in Lesson 002: Opposing Curves (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=255700). It demonstrates the use of flowing, organic, Opposing Curves which serve to create form:
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Opposing_Demo_small_2.jpg
Whether you are working digitally or traditionally, it really helps to just fill a few 'pages' with random, organic lines such as these. Look at trees, and draw them ~ you will notice that nature is full of Opposing Curves. Start out just drawing random, flowing lines, without trying to create anything in particular. This just helps you to loosen up, and to start to find a rhythm in your pen/pencil/brush strokes.
The key to PAINTING is NOT to FORGET the lessons you learn about DRAWING.
Hope this helps! :)
~Rebeccak
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Opposing_Demo_small_2.jpg
Whether you are working digitally or traditionally, it really helps to just fill a few 'pages' with random, organic lines such as these. Look at trees, and draw them ~ you will notice that nature is full of Opposing Curves. Start out just drawing random, flowing lines, without trying to create anything in particular. This just helps you to loosen up, and to start to find a rhythm in your pen/pencil/brush strokes.
The key to PAINTING is NOT to FORGET the lessons you learn about DRAWING.
Hope this helps! :)
~Rebeccak
PSR
08-19-2005, 06:50 AM
Here Goes. After seeing all the work here I decided to give it a try. Never used photoshop to paint with before.
donseeg
08-19-2005, 09:06 AM
Sorry to not have posted as much as I had wanted. Sometimes life gets in the way of important things ;)
anyway, here is my wip. This closeup is so that anyone that is interested can see how i line my strokes with the form. It also shows how I put the bright colors on the edges. I am still trying to keep the painting very fluid as I go for more accuracy in the overall image. I use both the background and foreground to define some of the edges. It is probably also worth noting that I am not trying to duplicate the photograph. I am beginning to decide which details are important and which are not. It is kind of the difference between folds and wrinkles. Folds are important and wrinkles are not.
There are some really nice things going on in this thread and some very dedicated people. This coupled with a very good host who is dynamite at critiquing....great combination.
zhuzhu, really nice pencil drawing. have you ever tried silver point? you might love it
Really, this thought is for everyone including myself. Drawing the curves of any object, as Rebecca constantly beats us over the heads reminding us, is very important. I often find it useful to consiously exagerate some curves. Almost always as you paint, an exagerated curve will slowly become less exagerated. I don't know why we have this tendency but it seems to be quite universal with artists. I also find, depending on the medium, that drawing curves with larger sweeping lines will help them maintain their shape. small and forced lines will also soften as you paint becoming formless. paintings of fabric tend to show this problem very well, but it is also applicable to most subject matter. I hope that might have made sense, It is very late and i really had better head to bed.
Cheers eveyone
Don
http://www.seegmillerart.com/images/03a.jpg
anyway, here is my wip. This closeup is so that anyone that is interested can see how i line my strokes with the form. It also shows how I put the bright colors on the edges. I am still trying to keep the painting very fluid as I go for more accuracy in the overall image. I use both the background and foreground to define some of the edges. It is probably also worth noting that I am not trying to duplicate the photograph. I am beginning to decide which details are important and which are not. It is kind of the difference between folds and wrinkles. Folds are important and wrinkles are not.
There are some really nice things going on in this thread and some very dedicated people. This coupled with a very good host who is dynamite at critiquing....great combination.
zhuzhu, really nice pencil drawing. have you ever tried silver point? you might love it
Really, this thought is for everyone including myself. Drawing the curves of any object, as Rebecca constantly beats us over the heads reminding us, is very important. I often find it useful to consiously exagerate some curves. Almost always as you paint, an exagerated curve will slowly become less exagerated. I don't know why we have this tendency but it seems to be quite universal with artists. I also find, depending on the medium, that drawing curves with larger sweeping lines will help them maintain their shape. small and forced lines will also soften as you paint becoming formless. paintings of fabric tend to show this problem very well, but it is also applicable to most subject matter. I hope that might have made sense, It is very late and i really had better head to bed.
Cheers eveyone
Don
http://www.seegmillerart.com/images/03a.jpg
weilong
08-19-2005, 10:16 AM
This is mine
Please everybody to much criticize to point out.
Thank:)
Thank:)
Thank:)
http://img119.photo.163.com/good3dmax/14171595/341911029.jpg
Please everybody to much criticize to point out.
Thank:)
Thank:)
Thank:)
http://img119.photo.163.com/good3dmax/14171595/341911029.jpg
Rebeccak
08-19-2005, 12:07 PM
Don,
Fantastic!! Thank you for posting this. :) I think it is incredible to get to see your working process, and to have you here giving some great, dynamic advice to our agreeably dedicated group here at CGTalk!!! I am more and more impressed with folks' postings everyday! And thank you for the compliment, that means a lot to me. :)
I can completely understand getting bogged down in other things. I'm happy you've taken the time to post here, and generously offering your thoughts. Thank you for reinforcing what I've been expressing about using Opposing Curves and Values in both Drawings and Paintings. It's interesting to hear you talk about the same things in your own way, and I think it goes a long way towards elucidating the subject matter for all of us! So thank you. :)
Can't wait to see more of your work as it progresses! :)
~Rebeccak
Fantastic!! Thank you for posting this. :) I think it is incredible to get to see your working process, and to have you here giving some great, dynamic advice to our agreeably dedicated group here at CGTalk!!! I am more and more impressed with folks' postings everyday! And thank you for the compliment, that means a lot to me. :)
I can completely understand getting bogged down in other things. I'm happy you've taken the time to post here, and generously offering your thoughts. Thank you for reinforcing what I've been expressing about using Opposing Curves and Values in both Drawings and Paintings. It's interesting to hear you talk about the same things in your own way, and I think it goes a long way towards elucidating the subject matter for all of us! So thank you. :)
Can't wait to see more of your work as it progresses! :)
~Rebeccak
Rebeccak
08-19-2005, 12:10 PM
PSR,
NICE work so far!!! I like the painterly feel to the digital paint and that you seem capable of both expressive strokes when they are required (such as in the background) and detailing strokes on the figure. Take a look at the artist Nicoli Fechin ~ his work is a profound essay on this kind of dialogue between the broad and loose gestural stroke and the small, precise details that make a painting harmonize visually. Man, I love that guy's work! :) Thanks for posting this, and keep going! Right now I think that your whites are starting to blow out, so you might want to take them down a notch, and gradually rebuild up to a particular area of white. Reserve absolute white for your BRIGHTEST highlight, and make all other highlights some shade of gray. Good luck with this, and post your updates! :thumbsup:
weilong,
GREAT work so far!! :thumbsup: My suggestion: add contrast. :) ~ Add some black in the background. Add some white for highlights. Keep going!!! And please post your results. :)
Welcome to the forum!! :)
~Rebeccak
~~~~~~~
NOTE: It is harder for me to review or even look at these particular during the day due to work, so please do not be offended if I do not immediately post comments for your posts. :) While it's tough for me NOT to look at these images :( I will try to get to more reviews this weekend from home.
Sometime soon I will be posting a new set of images for Open Figure Drawing Workshop 002. However, this and all workshops will still remain OPEN for posting, tho generally speaking as we move to the next workshop, my primary attention will be on the new one.
Looking forward to Open Figure Drawing Workshop 002!!! :)
NICE work so far!!! I like the painterly feel to the digital paint and that you seem capable of both expressive strokes when they are required (such as in the background) and detailing strokes on the figure. Take a look at the artist Nicoli Fechin ~ his work is a profound essay on this kind of dialogue between the broad and loose gestural stroke and the small, precise details that make a painting harmonize visually. Man, I love that guy's work! :) Thanks for posting this, and keep going! Right now I think that your whites are starting to blow out, so you might want to take them down a notch, and gradually rebuild up to a particular area of white. Reserve absolute white for your BRIGHTEST highlight, and make all other highlights some shade of gray. Good luck with this, and post your updates! :thumbsup:
weilong,
GREAT work so far!! :thumbsup: My suggestion: add contrast. :) ~ Add some black in the background. Add some white for highlights. Keep going!!! And please post your results. :)
Welcome to the forum!! :)
~Rebeccak
~~~~~~~
NOTE: It is harder for me to review or even look at these particular during the day due to work, so please do not be offended if I do not immediately post comments for your posts. :) While it's tough for me NOT to look at these images :( I will try to get to more reviews this weekend from home.
Sometime soon I will be posting a new set of images for Open Figure Drawing Workshop 002. However, this and all workshops will still remain OPEN for posting, tho generally speaking as we move to the next workshop, my primary attention will be on the new one.
Looking forward to Open Figure Drawing Workshop 002!!! :)
weilong
08-19-2005, 12:26 PM
Thank, thank, I will attain of!:)
My other work, ask animadversion to point out:)
http://features.cgsociety.org/gallerycrits/187617/187617_1124200023_medium.jpg (Old man)
http://666kb.com/i/10ox2xw9ydj40.jpg (WOMAN)
http://666kb.com/i/10oxwe5cpyuio.jpg (NEW WORK)
My other work, ask animadversion to point out:)
http://features.cgsociety.org/gallerycrits/187617/187617_1124200023_medium.jpg (Old man)
http://666kb.com/i/10ox2xw9ydj40.jpg (WOMAN)
http://666kb.com/i/10oxwe5cpyuio.jpg (NEW WORK)
allenatl
08-19-2005, 02:21 PM
Thanks for the critiques, Rebeccak. I've saved some of your pages on opposing curves to my hard drive along with the small shading and values tutorial with the skull. There's a tendency to overlook the basics sometimes so it helps to have this stuff for reference.
AmyScott-Murray
08-19-2005, 02:35 PM
Zhuzhu - what a beautiful sketch!
I feel bad always asking for crits and not giving any, but I feel like the work on here has gone way beyond my ability to criticise.
Anyway, here's my reworking of it :-
http://www.grannys-attic.co.uk/images/amy's/drawing7.jpg
Any comments before I start on the head?
Thanks
Amy
I feel bad always asking for crits and not giving any, but I feel like the work on here has gone way beyond my ability to criticise.
Anyway, here's my reworking of it :-
http://www.grannys-attic.co.uk/images/amy's/drawing7.jpg
Any comments before I start on the head?
Thanks
Amy
PSR
08-19-2005, 02:45 PM
Many thanks for your comments, and the heads up on Nicolai Fechin. Very sensuous paintwwork. A marriage of James Tissot and August Renoir perhaps?
I see what you mean about the whites. Do people use the Dodge and Burn tools to adjust those? I had not intended do more to it, I was looking forward to the next set of poses.
But I will see what more can be done with it.
I think that the figure drawing workshop is a wonderful idea, thank you very much for making it available
I see what you mean about the whites. Do people use the Dodge and Burn tools to adjust those? I had not intended do more to it, I was looking forward to the next set of poses.
But I will see what more can be done with it.
I think that the figure drawing workshop is a wonderful idea, thank you very much for making it available
yAdam
08-19-2005, 03:22 PM
!This thread is amazing. So much quality work, oustanding stuff! Great to see all the advice / tutorials too :applause:.
I decided to start off with a pencil sketch, scanned it in and now i'm going to paint. Heres the sketch:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/yAdam1/rk_anat2_b.jpg
Had to use auto adjust. I draw so lightly sometimes that my scanner cant pick up the lines. Onto the painting now. Also, I see some problems that I will try and rectify. The inside of the torso seems the biggest problem at the moment (I think). Crits are welcome :)
Oh, and also gonna try and get back to my rubens copy if i can, sort of forgot about that.!
I decided to start off with a pencil sketch, scanned it in and now i'm going to paint. Heres the sketch:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/yAdam1/rk_anat2_b.jpg
Had to use auto adjust. I draw so lightly sometimes that my scanner cant pick up the lines. Onto the painting now. Also, I see some problems that I will try and rectify. The inside of the torso seems the biggest problem at the moment (I think). Crits are welcome :)
Oh, and also gonna try and get back to my rubens copy if i can, sort of forgot about that.!
SpiritDreamer
08-19-2005, 03:41 PM
Hello to Pushav & dbclemons
Thanks a million guys...You don't know how much you just helped me.
For the last 5 years I have been trying to get rid of these jagged edges, and you have just solved my problem.:bounce:
And to Pushav...I was able to put your brushes in my Painter 8...and actually found them and was able to use them! :bounce:
Thanks again!
Glenn
Thanks a million guys...You don't know how much you just helped me.
For the last 5 years I have been trying to get rid of these jagged edges, and you have just solved my problem.:bounce:
And to Pushav...I was able to put your brushes in my Painter 8...and actually found them and was able to use them! :bounce:
Thanks again!
Glenn
Llynna
08-19-2005, 03:54 PM
thank you for your tips rebecca :)
i just started with a new sketch after going through the awesome opposing curves thread.
http://666kb.com/i/10oxhv8vkfxmo.jpg
i am currently at my 5th try for the grayscale..... well, as someone pointed out: for every good one you get 7 bad ones^^. after one hell of a day with my new professor, i found my motivation at the bottom most place you can imagine.... but because of all these awesome postings here, i was able to get it back.
@spirit dreamer: when i am working with painter i usually blend with some custom brushes with resat set to 0% and bleed around 50%.
i just started with a new sketch after going through the awesome opposing curves thread.
http://666kb.com/i/10oxhv8vkfxmo.jpg
i am currently at my 5th try for the grayscale..... well, as someone pointed out: for every good one you get 7 bad ones^^. after one hell of a day with my new professor, i found my motivation at the bottom most place you can imagine.... but because of all these awesome postings here, i was able to get it back.
@spirit dreamer: when i am working with painter i usually blend with some custom brushes with resat set to 0% and bleed around 50%.
default-rol
08-19-2005, 04:42 PM
Did some bad sketches, (and some worse ones) for this thread -
Sorry.:cry:
Had to submit them to the forum just to help shame myself into doing some better ones during the next round...:hmm:
MIKE
http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/5121/sketches1908058js.jpg
Sorry.:cry:
Had to submit them to the forum just to help shame myself into doing some better ones during the next round...:hmm:
MIKE
http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/5121/sketches1908058js.jpg
pushav
08-19-2005, 04:53 PM
Hello to Pushav & dbclemons
Thanks a million guys...You don't know how much you just helped me.
For the last 5 years I have been trying to get rid of these jagged edges, and you have just solved my problem.:bounce:
And to Pushav...I was able to put your brushes in my Painter 8...and actually found them and was able to use them! :bounce:
Thanks again!
Glenn
Did you enjoy the painterly blend that you can get the my brushes? Powerful stuff huh? Lol! Now you can rule the universe spiritdreamer! Have fun with them. Oh yeah make sure you save them on a disc. You can look at the setting to see what I was talking about to make it a blender. The brushes even work in painter 9. I ripped them from painter 9 when I use to have windows xp on my system.
To delault.rol
They are not bad. Just keep on redrawing the pose until you get it down. Right now I am trying the poses again in 100percent ink now which is a huge challenge. (no erasing allowed lol)
Thanks a million guys...You don't know how much you just helped me.
For the last 5 years I have been trying to get rid of these jagged edges, and you have just solved my problem.:bounce:
And to Pushav...I was able to put your brushes in my Painter 8...and actually found them and was able to use them! :bounce:
Thanks again!
Glenn
Did you enjoy the painterly blend that you can get the my brushes? Powerful stuff huh? Lol! Now you can rule the universe spiritdreamer! Have fun with them. Oh yeah make sure you save them on a disc. You can look at the setting to see what I was talking about to make it a blender. The brushes even work in painter 9. I ripped them from painter 9 when I use to have windows xp on my system.
To delault.rol
They are not bad. Just keep on redrawing the pose until you get it down. Right now I am trying the poses again in 100percent ink now which is a huge challenge. (no erasing allowed lol)
Ego
08-19-2005, 06:37 PM
Pushav where are your brushes? Is it posted on this thread?
weilong
08-19-2005, 06:41 PM
Renew the work! :)
Please point out mistake more~~Thank :)
http://666kb.com/i/10oxyzi3ym8sg.jpg
Please point out mistake more~~Thank :)
http://666kb.com/i/10oxyzi3ym8sg.jpg
pushav
08-19-2005, 07:00 PM
weilong- nice work!
Quensoul- I emailed him some of my painter 7 brushes. Do you want some also.
Quensoul- I emailed him some of my painter 7 brushes. Do you want some also.
Flydesign
08-19-2005, 07:14 PM
Look forward on hear the critiques on this one. This was a quick sketch.
Enjoy,
Matt
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/mattdesign/F_Torso_Back_Studycopy.jpg
Enjoy,
Matt
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/mattdesign/F_Torso_Back_Studycopy.jpg
pushav
08-19-2005, 07:14 PM
Newwr pose
I used ink on printer paper (what a challenge)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/pushav/sketches/lifedrawing7.jpg
I used ink on printer paper (what a challenge)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/pushav/sketches/lifedrawing7.jpg
allenatl
08-19-2005, 07:22 PM
weilong, very nice painting. Don't know if it was intentional or not, but it looks like the proportions were shortened vertically, giving her the look of some of the old Renaissance paintings with the healthier sized women.
Llynna
08-19-2005, 08:20 PM
here is the update for teh new sketch
http://666kb.com/i/10oy6ihpreosg.jpg
i am much more satisfied with this one, but i really really must learn how to draw hands and feet......
@pushav: could you send me these brushes too?
http://666kb.com/i/10oy6ihpreosg.jpg
i am much more satisfied with this one, but i really really must learn how to draw hands and feet......
@pushav: could you send me these brushes too?
pushav
08-19-2005, 08:26 PM
Llynna- Sure I can. Pm me your email and your wish is my command POOF!
Lol.
I am starting to get fame with theese brushes. (I feel like ryan church or a bob ross right now). I am getting good reviews on theese brushes.
I may have to make more. Maybe VDZ set 2 lol.
Lol.
I am starting to get fame with theese brushes. (I feel like ryan church or a bob ross right now). I am getting good reviews on theese brushes.
I may have to make more. Maybe VDZ set 2 lol.
yAdam
08-19-2005, 08:52 PM
Llynna- Sure I can. Pm me your email and your wish is my command POOF!
Lol.
I am starting to get fame with theese brushes. (I feel like ryan church or a bob ross right now). I am getting good reviews on theese brushes.
I may have to make more. Maybe VDZ set 2 lol.
:scream: lol. Bob Ross is hilarious. He was so cool. But unfortunately could only paint one kind of picture. Would you mind sending me those brushes too?:D
Lol.
I am starting to get fame with theese brushes. (I feel like ryan church or a bob ross right now). I am getting good reviews on theese brushes.
I may have to make more. Maybe VDZ set 2 lol.
:scream: lol. Bob Ross is hilarious. He was so cool. But unfortunately could only paint one kind of picture. Would you mind sending me those brushes too?:D
pushav
08-19-2005, 08:56 PM
Pm me your email and you may become the new "Bob Ross" .:thumbsup:
I am feeling like the Icecream man Lol.
Patriot pops for all!
(I wonder if I am famous now?)
I am feeling like the Icecream man Lol.
Patriot pops for all!
(I wonder if I am famous now?)
yAdam
08-19-2005, 09:05 PM
hehe. I really dont want to become the new bob ross :)
SpiritDreamer
08-19-2005, 09:09 PM
Hi Amy
WOW!!:applause:
Really captured those subtle curves that were missing in your first piece.
Nice Proportion and Rythm going on now.
I was partial to the face you had on the first one.
If you can capture that again you'll be all set!
Keep up the great work!
Take care
Glenn
PS If you need some nice blender brushes, maybe if you ask Pushav (really nicely) he will accomodate you. (Tell him, Glenn sent you)
PPS Pushav...Am I in trouble here or what? :eek:
What happened to your painting? It was looking great!
If you keep going back to drawing, you will make Rebecca put
you in the dog house.:cry:
WOW!!:applause:
Really captured those subtle curves that were missing in your first piece.
Nice Proportion and Rythm going on now.
I was partial to the face you had on the first one.
If you can capture that again you'll be all set!
Keep up the great work!
Take care
Glenn
PS If you need some nice blender brushes, maybe if you ask Pushav (really nicely) he will accomodate you. (Tell him, Glenn sent you)
PPS Pushav...Am I in trouble here or what? :eek:
What happened to your painting? It was looking great!
If you keep going back to drawing, you will make Rebecca put
you in the dog house.:cry:
PSR
08-19-2005, 09:14 PM
Llynna, I really like your drawing, it looks just like a charcoal drawing. It is Photoshop?
I've used photoshop since version 5 to mess about with Photos, but never thought to use it, for painting or drawing, until I saw this thread.
With hands and feet, try not to think about what they look like. Just you have in the other parts of your drawing, pick out the highlights and the darks that you can see. The feet and hands will almost draw themselves.
I've used photoshop since version 5 to mess about with Photos, but never thought to use it, for painting or drawing, until I saw this thread.
With hands and feet, try not to think about what they look like. Just you have in the other parts of your drawing, pick out the highlights and the darks that you can see. The feet and hands will almost draw themselves.
Llynna
08-19-2005, 09:20 PM
@amy: wow... really awesome :) i really like the rendering and all this nice curves ;)
@psr: thank you :)
yes it is photoshop, i made a costum brush for sketching and after a long time of struggle i finally get the habit of sketching in photoshop :). also thanks for the tip with the hands and feet, you are right, i always try to draw them from the form and not from the highlights.
@rebecca: thanks for your work and your tip to paint in greyscale. i recognized one funny thing , after sketching out the main blocks i was able to delete the outlines and to "see" them in my brain, it was totally clear where the form was ( i hope thats understandable^^)
@psr: thank you :)
yes it is photoshop, i made a costum brush for sketching and after a long time of struggle i finally get the habit of sketching in photoshop :). also thanks for the tip with the hands and feet, you are right, i always try to draw them from the form and not from the highlights.
@rebecca: thanks for your work and your tip to paint in greyscale. i recognized one funny thing , after sketching out the main blocks i was able to delete the outlines and to "see" them in my brain, it was totally clear where the form was ( i hope thats understandable^^)
pushav
08-19-2005, 09:22 PM
Spiritdreamer- Lol! I am lucky that Becca has not shown her face in here for a while.
"welcome to the Pushav thread" Lol! I should work on the painting but felt like drawing in ink for some reason. My inner Yoji Shinkawa was coming out. Oh yeah Look at Yoji's work. His meatal gear inks are nice.
Hopefully she will not put me in detention because I love my Saturdays too much!
Lol! I won't forget you glenn as I make my way to the top.
Llynna loves the smudger. a la photoshop smude sorta.
"welcome to the Pushav thread" Lol! I should work on the painting but felt like drawing in ink for some reason. My inner Yoji Shinkawa was coming out. Oh yeah Look at Yoji's work. His meatal gear inks are nice.
Hopefully she will not put me in detention because I love my Saturdays too much!
Lol! I won't forget you glenn as I make my way to the top.
Llynna loves the smudger. a la photoshop smude sorta.
Rebeccak
08-19-2005, 09:28 PM
Must...check...the ego...of pushav...Boo! Grrr... :)
:)
Freshly baked review for weilong coming shortly...
~Rebeccak
:)
Freshly baked review for weilong coming shortly...
~Rebeccak
NOOB!
08-19-2005, 09:30 PM
pushav,what brushes are these? i may like a set too.
then i can get started...
then i can get started...
Rebeccak
08-19-2005, 09:36 PM
Ok, kids. :)
Weilong, thanks for your post! Here is your review: :)
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/weilong_REVIEW_SET.gif
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/weilong_REVIEW_1.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/weilong_REVIEW_2.jpg
Hope this helps! :)
~Rebeccak
Guys: If anyone else would like pushav's brushes, please simply PM him, and please do not post any more requests on this thread, as it is taking up unnecessary space.
Thanks! :)
Weilong, thanks for your post! Here is your review: :)
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/weilong_REVIEW_SET.gif
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/weilong_REVIEW_1.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Open%20Figure%20Drawing%20Workshop/weilong_REVIEW_2.jpg
Hope this helps! :)
~Rebeccak
Guys: If anyone else would like pushav's brushes, please simply PM him, and please do not post any more requests on this thread, as it is taking up unnecessary space.
Thanks! :)
Llynna
08-19-2005, 09:39 PM
as requested by pushav......... *tada* my drawing smudged with his acrylic smudg tool
http://666kb.com/i/10oydth700cn4.JPG
and now for world domination *narf* (but as we know: they never achieved it ;))
http://666kb.com/i/10oydth700cn4.JPG
and now for world domination *narf* (but as we know: they never achieved it ;))
pushav
08-19-2005, 09:59 PM
Lol! Look at that people! the proof is in the pooding! The proof is in the f#$%^&ng Pooding! Pm me your email and you to can rule the world. (Try it before you buy it. I feel like Billy Maze (whatever his name is) try to sell some oxy clean.)
I can give you some also Rebecca. Just give me the word. Oh yeah you may want to put pm pushav for brushes in your rules section on the first page.
That is all of the spam that I have for now:twisted:
(ps i also have a hyung tae kim type of smudger also for painter. OOps did I say that out loud.)
Honestly Rebecca this inspires me to paint that picture more.
Again sorry Teacher (Rebecca). :cry::bowdown:
I can give you some also Rebecca. Just give me the word. Oh yeah you may want to put pm pushav for brushes in your rules section on the first page.
That is all of the spam that I have for now:twisted:
(ps i also have a hyung tae kim type of smudger also for painter. OOps did I say that out loud.)
Honestly Rebecca this inspires me to paint that picture more.
Again sorry Teacher (Rebecca). :cry::bowdown:
Rebeccak
08-19-2005, 09:59 PM
amy_517,
This is looking fantastic so far! The main thing I would suggest for the face would be to create the main axes on a separate layer ~ draw the main central axis first, then the axes of the brow, eyes, lips, chin, and nose. Keep this first pass loose and gestural, and then go in and refine, adding details at the last. Keep this layer locked, and paint either on top of it or beneath it, depending on your preference.
The same general approach applies when you are blocking in your colors: as you have done with the body and the background, simply continue to block in the rough value areas of the face first, and then gradually refine as you go. Add details at the last, and continually check your painting against your axes drawing, correcting as you go. You will find that your AXES are the most important things to get right in the face ~ particularly as it is small, and mistakes will show right away.
A poorly rendered face which has all of the axes in place will read better than a perfectly rendered face which has misaligned axes.
Good luck with this, and look forward to seeing your result! :)
Llynna,
Good work so far, I am really pleased with how this is coming along! The main thing which I would suggest at this point would be to step back and take a look at your piece as though you are looking at a DRAWING and not a PAINTING. Psychologically this can help artists to see their mistakes.
I would suggest at this point creating a new layer, and doing a drawing in some visible color, like blue, overtop of your existing painting. Find the major Opposing Curves and reinforce these. Relax your lines, and try to give the figure more of a lengthened, extended look. Feel free to cut and paste elements of the painting and move and rescale them to make them work, and then reblend these elements back into the painting.
All of Drawing and Painting is about EDITING, and I think that that is the primary task you have right now to push this piece to the next level. Definitely post your results, and we'll go from there! :)
Great job so far, so keep going! :)
~Rebeccak
This is looking fantastic so far! The main thing I would suggest for the face would be to create the main axes on a separate layer ~ draw the main central axis first, then the axes of the brow, eyes, lips, chin, and nose. Keep this first pass loose and gestural, and then go in and refine, adding details at the last. Keep this layer locked, and paint either on top of it or beneath it, depending on your preference.
The same general approach applies when you are blocking in your colors: as you have done with the body and the background, simply continue to block in the rough value areas of the face first, and then gradually refine as you go. Add details at the last, and continually check your painting against your axes drawing, correcting as you go. You will find that your AXES are the most important things to get right in the face ~ particularly as it is small, and mistakes will show right away.
A poorly rendered face which has all of the axes in place will read better than a perfectly rendered face which has misaligned axes.
Good luck with this, and look forward to seeing your result! :)
Llynna,
Good work so far, I am really pleased with how this is coming along! The main thing which I would suggest at this point would be to step back and take a look at your piece as though you are looking at a DRAWING and not a PAINTING. Psychologically this can help artists to see their mistakes.
I would suggest at this point creating a new layer, and doing a drawing in some visible color, like blue, overtop of your existing painting. Find the major Opposing Curves and reinforce these. Relax your lines, and try to give the figure more of a lengthened, extended look. Feel free to cut and paste elements of the painting and move and rescale them to make them work, and then reblend these elements back into the painting.
All of Drawing and Painting is about EDITING, and I think that that is the primary task you have right now to push this piece to the next level. Definitely post your results, and we'll go from there! :)
Great job so far, so keep going! :)
~Rebeccak
pushav
08-19-2005, 10:09 PM
Hey Rebecca I have a tip on how to get opposing curves for beginners and it is very simple and I was wondering if I can post it here.
Just asking. Hopefully you are in a good mood!:thumbsup:
Sorry that my popularity got out of hand.
Just asking. Hopefully you are in a good mood!:thumbsup:
Sorry that my popularity got out of hand.
Rebeccak
08-19-2005, 10:34 PM
Pushav,
If you want to do a demo that specifically relates to the model reference on this thread, feel free. Just keep it on topic, and it will be cool. ;)
If you want to do an Opposing Curves demo that is done from other reference, I would rather you post on the main anatomy forum a new thread called "TUTORIAL - Easy Opposing Curves - by pushav" or something to that effect. That is the standard naming convention I like for folks to use when posting their own tutorials.
EDIT: What I would suggest is to create a demo in this thread that is based on the model photographs for Opposing Curves. Then I would suggest creating on the main forum the following:
TUTORIAL - Custom Painter Brushes - by pushav
Clearly your brushes and Painter advice have benefitted many, and it might be cool to have all of your Painter tips and tricks in one place so that people can easily find it. :)
Thanks, :)
~Rebeccak
If you want to do a demo that specifically relates to the model reference on this thread, feel free. Just keep it on topic, and it will be cool. ;)
If you want to do an Opposing Curves demo that is done from other reference, I would rather you post on the main anatomy forum a new thread called "TUTORIAL - Easy Opposing Curves - by pushav" or something to that effect. That is the standard naming convention I like for folks to use when posting their own tutorials.
EDIT: What I would suggest is to create a demo in this thread that is based on the model photographs for Opposing Curves. Then I would suggest creating on the main forum the following:
TUTORIAL - Custom Painter Brushes - by pushav
Clearly your brushes and Painter advice have benefitted many, and it might be cool to have all of your Painter tips and tricks in one place so that people can easily find it. :)
Thanks, :)
~Rebeccak
Llynna
08-19-2005, 10:44 PM
hy rebecca, i did what you suggested and treid to create some length. thank you for your advice :)
http://666kb.com/i/10oyjvw7uqkg0.jpg
http://666kb.com/i/10oyjvw7uqkg0.jpg
Rebeccak
08-19-2005, 10:47 PM
yAdam,
I really like your drawing so far, and would like to see you either refine this drawing, or do another of the same pose, using what you've learned from this version to improve the next. Great linework ~ I love the sense of weight! I would push the expressiveness of your linework without getting crazy about it, and see what happens. Definitely post your results! :)
default.rol / Mike,
I think your bottom right sketch is the most successful of that page. :) I think that you are showing your understanding of Opposing Curves in this piece which is definitely working to your advantage. Realizing that you have a busy schedule, would you also consider using your grid method on the model reference to create a new drawing? I think this would help you to see certain problem areas in the figure. I would suggest trying this method on the front pose, and seeing what happens. Definitely post your results! :)
Flydesign,
I really like what you have going so far, can you tell us what medium you are using ~ traditional / digital?
One thing I would like for this thread is for folks to keep the image which they post to a 600 pixel width. :) ~It's no biggie, and you need not change your current post, but just a note for the future. ;) One thing I do is to keep a large version, and then when I go to post an image, save a merged copy and Image > Image Size > set width to 600 pixels with the 'Constrain Proportions' checked in Photoshop. I don't care about length as much as width. :)
But back to your piece. I think you have a really nice command of structure, and I would just like to see you push this further.
Definitely post your results! And welcome to the forum. :)
Llynna,
Wow, that was fast! I like how you are developing this so far. There are some problem areas, specifically around the shoulders, and I think that one thing that will help is to step away from your current painting for a moment, and take the time to trace the photograph, in a separate digital file, to get a feel for the shape of the shoulders and for the arms.
After you have done this tracing, which is just for practice, go back into your original painting, and you will see it with new eyes.
You are developing the leg nicely, but the hands need work ~ I would recommend breaking the hands down into simple shapes first, and not worrying about tiny details first. Remember that Drawing and Painting is a constant process of Construction and Deconstruction. It is not always a linear trip down a one way street ~ if something is not working, artists are at liberty to go back, tear down what they've done, and reconstruct it in a more informed way.
Keep working, and eep posting your results! :thumbsup:
~Rebeccak
I really like your drawing so far, and would like to see you either refine this drawing, or do another of the same pose, using what you've learned from this version to improve the next. Great linework ~ I love the sense of weight! I would push the expressiveness of your linework without getting crazy about it, and see what happens. Definitely post your results! :)
default.rol / Mike,
I think your bottom right sketch is the most successful of that page. :) I think that you are showing your understanding of Opposing Curves in this piece which is definitely working to your advantage. Realizing that you have a busy schedule, would you also consider using your grid method on the model reference to create a new drawing? I think this would help you to see certain problem areas in the figure. I would suggest trying this method on the front pose, and seeing what happens. Definitely post your results! :)
Flydesign,
I really like what you have going so far, can you tell us what medium you are using ~ traditional / digital?
One thing I would like for this thread is for folks to keep the image which they post to a 600 pixel width. :) ~It's no biggie, and you need not change your current post, but just a note for the future. ;) One thing I do is to keep a large version, and then when I go to post an image, save a merged copy and Image > Image Size > set width to 600 pixels with the 'Constrain Proportions' checked in Photoshop. I don't care about length as much as width. :)
But back to your piece. I think you have a really nice command of structure, and I would just like to see you push this further.
Definitely post your results! And welcome to the forum. :)
Llynna,
Wow, that was fast! I like how you are developing this so far. There are some problem areas, specifically around the shoulders, and I think that one thing that will help is to step away from your current painting for a moment, and take the time to trace the photograph, in a separate digital file, to get a feel for the shape of the shoulders and for the arms.
After you have done this tracing, which is just for practice, go back into your original painting, and you will see it with new eyes.
You are developing the leg nicely, but the hands need work ~ I would recommend breaking the hands down into simple shapes first, and not worrying about tiny details first. Remember that Drawing and Painting is a constant process of Construction and Deconstruction. It is not always a linear trip down a one way street ~ if something is not working, artists are at liberty to go back, tear down what they've done, and reconstruct it in a more informed way.
Keep working, and eep posting your results! :thumbsup:
~Rebeccak
yAdam
08-19-2005, 11:21 PM
:scream:Thanks so much for your suggestions and encouragment rebecca! I started to paint the first sketch, but before i finish it off i'm gonna do a couple more sketches taking in mind what you said. Heres where i got:
http://images5.theimagehosting.com/rk_anat2_b_colour2.JPG
http://images5.theimagehosting.com/rk_anat2_b_colour2.JPG
Rebeccak
08-19-2005, 11:25 PM
yAdam,
No prob! :) My suggestion before you go further would be to elongate her figure ~ people have tended to make her a bit scrunched looking, and I think you may be in danger of doing that here. I always emphasize drawing the head and neck first without hair. This will tell you where the head should be with reference to the body, and it is almost without fail placed by artists too low and close to the shoulders than it should be. Make sure the figure has a well-defined neck, and that will tell you where the head should be.
Once again, don't get lost in COLOR. Try to see things in terms of value. Good luck with this, and hope to see your updated post! :)
~Rebeccak
No prob! :) My suggestion before you go further would be to elongate her figure ~ people have tended to make her a bit scrunched looking, and I think you may be in danger of doing that here. I always emphasize drawing the head and neck first without hair. This will tell you where the head should be with reference to the body, and it is almost without fail placed by artists too low and close to the shoulders than it should be. Make sure the figure has a well-defined neck, and that will tell you where the head should be.
Once again, don't get lost in COLOR. Try to see things in terms of value. Good luck with this, and hope to see your updated post! :)
~Rebeccak
pushav
08-19-2005, 11:39 PM
Here is my mini tutorial Through the blessings of Rebecca.
Some may not know how to get opposite curves or conceptualize (A big word. I know) it.
It is simpler than you may think. When I was a young artist, hmmmmm. what am I talking about. I am still young. anyway.. I came up with a method of opposite curves way before I enrolled in art classes in college. I came up with this method when I was a pre-teen and I stuck with the method ever since.
All you need is a drawing instrument and some paper and to shapes.
Yes just 2 shapes. A circle and an oval.
Did you know that you can constuct humans, worlds, animals, universes,etc.. with just 2 shapes.
1.Circles
2.Ovals
I will show you guys some examples.....
Circle and oval gestures.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/pushav/random/2op.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/pushav/random/1op.jpg
Overlapping circles and ovals can create volume and 3d forms also.
Placing circles and ovals in the right places can give you a human OR express forms to create other things.
Circles and ovals have what I like to call a "natual curve". I you look at things in nature, You will notice that nature has curves and rarely uses straight lines like trees, animals, flowers, humas, clouds. Most man made objects use straight lines like pc scanners,t.v.s, speakers.
I should have shown you guys an animal drawn from all circles but other are pm-ing me like crazy lol.
In all experiment with this method. You may think that my stuff is crazy, but remember you have just enrolled in my school of ronin arts.
Add your 2cents if you want people. Correct me if I am wrong.
Any questions:shrug:
Some may not know how to get opposite curves or conceptualize (A big word. I know) it.
It is simpler than you may think. When I was a young artist, hmmmmm. what am I talking about. I am still young. anyway.. I came up with a method of opposite curves way before I enrolled in art classes in college. I came up with this method when I was a pre-teen and I stuck with the method ever since.
All you need is a drawing instrument and some paper and to shapes.
Yes just 2 shapes. A circle and an oval.
Did you know that you can constuct humans, worlds, animals, universes,etc.. with just 2 shapes.
1.Circles
2.Ovals
I will show you guys some examples.....
Circle and oval gestures.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/pushav/random/2op.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/pushav/random/1op.jpg
Overlapping circles and ovals can create volume and 3d forms also.
Placing circles and ovals in the right places can give you a human OR express forms to create other things.
Circles and ovals have what I like to call a "natual curve". I you look at things in nature, You will notice that nature has curves and rarely uses straight lines like trees, animals, flowers, humas, clouds. Most man made objects use straight lines like pc scanners,t.v.s, speakers.
I should have shown you guys an animal drawn from all circles but other are pm-ing me like crazy lol.
In all experiment with this method. You may think that my stuff is crazy, but remember you have just enrolled in my school of ronin arts.
Add your 2cents if you want people. Correct me if I am wrong.
Any questions:shrug:
Rebeccak
08-19-2005, 11:45 PM
pushav,
Thank you for posting this. :) I especially like the top left hand figure, I think you've done a good job of showing how these basic shapes can collaborate to create complex form.
Thanks for your tutorial ~ may we look forward to a Painter Tips & Tricks Tutorial on the main Anatomy forum? :) Just please make sure that in your demo, you use figures, so that your tutorial is not moved elsewhere (there is an existing Painter forum here on CGTalk).
Please just use the typical naming convention for Tutorials:
TUTORIAL - subject - by *your name*
Thanks! :)
~Rebeccak
Thank you for posting this. :) I especially like the top left hand figure, I think you've done a good job of showing how these basic shapes can collaborate to create complex form.
Thanks for your tutorial ~ may we look forward to a Painter Tips & Tricks Tutorial on the main Anatomy forum? :) Just please make sure that in your demo, you use figures, so that your tutorial is not moved elsewhere (there is an existing Painter forum here on CGTalk).
Please just use the typical naming convention for Tutorials:
TUTORIAL - subject - by *your name*
Thanks! :)
~Rebeccak
pushav
08-20-2005, 12:04 AM
Rebecca- You mean the female body figure?
Heh you like my crude jimmy rigged tutorial.
I thought that it may have sounded like crap and other may not like it.
I could elaborate on it more.
Heh you like my crude jimmy rigged tutorial.
I thought that it may have sounded like crap and other may not like it.
I could elaborate on it more.
yAdam
08-20-2005, 12:41 AM
Thought I might as well jump into pure values straight away... Only got a bit done before I go to bed, but i thought i might as well post it.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/yAdam1/rk_anat2_b_gscale.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/yAdam1/rk_anat2_b_gscale.jpg
jinnseng
08-20-2005, 01:08 AM
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/jinnseng/back.jpg
Done in painter. This is my first nude study i've ever done, so i'm sure there are some things wrong with it.
Done in painter. This is my first nude study i've ever done, so i'm sure there are some things wrong with it.
dbclemons
08-20-2005, 01:56 AM
Took a bit of time off tonight to make the corrections to my last pose (all in Painter.) The changes are mostly on the right leg and hip and a bit on the back, plus I added a faint shadow underneath her. Hope it satisfies. It was a nice relief from all the 3D work I've been doing lately (now it's "really 3D.")
http://www.dbclemons.com/tutorials/workshop01C.jpg
pushav, if you're not using the 9.1 update to Painter be sure and get it. It's much more stable.
-David
http://www.dbclemons.com/tutorials/workshop01C.jpg
pushav, if you're not using the 9.1 update to Painter be sure and get it. It's much more stable.
-David
SpiritDreamer
08-20-2005, 01:59 AM
Hi Amy
Important note: Don hit on it a little in his last update. Got me to thinking what makes the difference between a totally acurate painting and a great painting that is considered by all to be a masterpiece.
I think it can be related to music and / or acting. A person can get up on the stage and sing all the notes and words perfectly, or an actor can read his lines just like they are written down, but until they bring out something that is hidden within themselves, deep down in their soul or whatever, and express them selves with truthful heartfelt emotion, it is just some pretty words and sounds. Totally correct but uninspired.
Perfect example: what makes Zhushu's latest drawing so beautiful? It is not the fact that it is put down correctly. (Has a couple of errors, so what?) It's the fact that it was spoken, sung and drawn with extreme eloquence in this case. In some other case it might be rage, or whatever. It is how you convey your own inner emotions and express them outwards and reflect them in your work. Whether it be music acting or painting that makes for creating masterpieces. In short it has to have something of you in it.
So now that you have put all the pieces of the puzzle together correctly, and are in the process of taking it to its final stages, I hope you keep what I said in mind. And I hope what I said helps you a little anyway.
And anyone else out there who reads this.
Take care
And
Good Luck
Glenn
Important note: Don hit on it a little in his last update. Got me to thinking what makes the difference between a totally acurate painting and a great painting that is considered by all to be a masterpiece.
I think it can be related to music and / or acting. A person can get up on the stage and sing all the notes and words perfectly, or an actor can read his lines just like they are written down, but until they bring out something that is hidden within themselves, deep down in their soul or whatever, and express them selves with truthful heartfelt emotion, it is just some pretty words and sounds. Totally correct but uninspired.
Perfect example: what makes Zhushu's latest drawing so beautiful? It is not the fact that it is put down correctly. (Has a couple of errors, so what?) It's the fact that it was spoken, sung and drawn with extreme eloquence in this case. In some other case it might be rage, or whatever. It is how you convey your own inner emotions and express them outwards and reflect them in your work. Whether it be music acting or painting that makes for creating masterpieces. In short it has to have something of you in it.
So now that you have put all the pieces of the puzzle together correctly, and are in the process of taking it to its final stages, I hope you keep what I said in mind. And I hope what I said helps you a little anyway.
And anyone else out there who reads this.
Take care
And
Good Luck
Glenn
pushav
08-20-2005, 02:25 AM
Preach on Spirit! Preach on!:applause: :applause: :applause:
dbclemons- I should get the 9.1 patch someday. I have a feeling Painter 10 will come out. Lol.
dbclemons- I should get the 9.1 patch someday. I have a feeling Painter 10 will come out. Lol.
stipick_S
08-20-2005, 02:34 AM
on the subject of beautifully done paintings. To read up on what spiritdreamer is speaking of I highly recomend Berger's "Ways of Seeing". It is quick read and inexpensive, yet highly usefull and insightfull book on certain aesthetics of art.
zhuzhu
08-20-2005, 02:54 AM
donseeg: thanks, i love your brush work too. i know [silver point] from some drawing book, like H pencil? i am afraid i can't find this kind of pencil in chinese market. but that ok, i think the quality of drawing is not only depend on which tool would be using.
amy_517: thank you.
rebeccak: thanks for your useful reply. i am looking forward the [ Open Figure Drawing Workshop 02], and, may i make a "precontract" first? you know that, and waiting for you to say"yes", ah ha~~~ :)
today's sketch, legs study. ( pencil on sketchbook)
http://usera.imagecave.com/zhuzhu/ofd08.jpg
amy_517: thank you.
rebeccak: thanks for your useful reply. i am looking forward the [ Open Figure Drawing Workshop 02], and, may i make a "precontract" first? you know that, and waiting for you to say"yes", ah ha~~~ :)
today's sketch, legs study. ( pencil on sketchbook)
http://usera.imagecave.com/zhuzhu/ofd08.jpg
Zephyri
08-20-2005, 03:04 AM
Its great to still see this thread going strong, when it's not being hijacked by those after painter brushes! :D
dbclemons, your workappeals to me more every time you post. yadam, I really liked the way you were using the colour in your first piece, once you've got the tonals down, it'd be great to see a continuation of that - the greeny yellows and pinks play off each other nicely.
Just a quick update on my own piece... the figure is almost there, I still need to refine her feet a little more. One wing is done, and I've put a bit more detail into her surroundings, though I've still got some perspective issues I need to iron out.
Rebecca, I was wondering if it would be okay for me to post this in the finished 2D section when I'm done with it? Use the opportunity to pimp this forum in general, as its such a great resource. I understand if you'd rather I didn't, but I figured I'd ask anyhow. My thanks to you and Hong again. Such a great thread!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/xephyri/cgtalk%20images/figurativeupdate2.jpg
dbclemons, your workappeals to me more every time you post. yadam, I really liked the way you were using the colour in your first piece, once you've got the tonals down, it'd be great to see a continuation of that - the greeny yellows and pinks play off each other nicely.
Just a quick update on my own piece... the figure is almost there, I still need to refine her feet a little more. One wing is done, and I've put a bit more detail into her surroundings, though I've still got some perspective issues I need to iron out.
Rebecca, I was wondering if it would be okay for me to post this in the finished 2D section when I'm done with it? Use the opportunity to pimp this forum in general, as its such a great resource. I understand if you'd rather I didn't, but I figured I'd ask anyhow. My thanks to you and Hong again. Such a great thread!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/xephyri/cgtalk%20images/figurativeupdate2.jpg
DrakeX
08-20-2005, 03:07 AM
Pushav - I very much like your mini-tutorial! Surprisingly enough, I was going to post something in here about "bubble muscles," seeing if anyone else used this method and how well it worked for determining opposing curves (as Rebecca pointed out to me that I need to work on them). Lo and behold, you posted that tut, and now I'm much more confident ;D One thing I would like to see, however, is a sort of "bubble guide," which would show where most of the major forms of the body are and how they're generally shaped. Not asking you to go overboard with work here, but if you have the time.. it'd be very nice ;)
pushav
08-20-2005, 03:09 AM
donseeg: thanks, i love your brush work too. i know [silver point] from some drawing book, like H pencil? i am afraid i can't find this kind of pencil in chinese market. but that ok, i think the quality of drawing is not only depend on which tool would be using.
amy_517: thank you.
rebeccak: thanks for your useful reply. i am looking forward the [ Open Figure Drawing Workshop 02], and, may i make a "precontract" first? you know that, and waiting for you to say"yes", ah ha~~~ :)
today's sketch, legs study. ( pencil on sketchbook)
http://usera.imagecave.com/zhuzhu/ofd08.jpg
Do you use a stump to blend or is that all pencil to make smooth values? Nice work!
I also like that woman ith the orange flower in here hair in another thread that you posted in.
DrakeX- Lol I beat ya to it. A comic artist by the name of Bart Sears uses the bubble muscle method when he draw muscular heroes such a Captain America and Falcon.
I just had to show people my method and give others confidence on the opposing curves that Rebecca was talking about. I had to dumb down her message so thoose who are not as art savvy as others could also get the message.
Zepyhri- Fantastic work!:thumbsup:
amy_517: thank you.
rebeccak: thanks for your useful reply. i am looking forward the [ Open Figure Drawing Workshop 02], and, may i make a "precontract" first? you know that, and waiting for you to say"yes", ah ha~~~ :)
today's sketch, legs study. ( pencil on sketchbook)
http://usera.imagecave.com/zhuzhu/ofd08.jpg
Do you use a stump to blend or is that all pencil to make smooth values? Nice work!
I also like that woman ith the orange flower in here hair in another thread that you posted in.
DrakeX- Lol I beat ya to it. A comic artist by the name of Bart Sears uses the bubble muscle method when he draw muscular heroes such a Captain America and Falcon.
I just had to show people my method and give others confidence on the opposing curves that Rebecca was talking about. I had to dumb down her message so thoose who are not as art savvy as others could also get the message.
Zepyhri- Fantastic work!:thumbsup:
zhuzhu
08-20-2005, 03:48 AM
Do you use a stump to blend or is that all pencil to make smooth values? Nice work!
thanks, i used the most powerful and natural blend tool (my finger)~~~ha ha
thanks, i used the most powerful and natural blend tool (my finger)~~~ha ha
pushav
08-20-2005, 03:54 AM
Zhuzhu- Lol! I do the same but my art teacher used to make us use pencil and no smudging. A picture that would take 3 days ended up takeing 2weeks to finish. Over a billion pencil strokes just to finish 1 picture. Those were the days.
danielh68
08-20-2005, 05:01 AM
Hi all, I been wanting to participate but haven't found the time, until now. Started at 5 and just finished. Four hours total.
Awesome thread and excellent entries by everyone.
http://www.danielhelzer.com/sketches/sketch40.jpg
Awesome thread and excellent entries by everyone.
http://www.danielhelzer.com/sketches/sketch40.jpg
Flydesign
08-20-2005, 08:09 AM
Referring to post #379, thanks for your critique rebeccak. The medium I’m working in is digital. In the past year it’s been really a joy to work in this medium. I have done a ton of human anatomy studies in the traditional mediums and I’m trying to recapture my style in the digital medium. The structure of the human body can be fascinating to draw and I learn something every time I do a study. I like to preserve and always show structure and I really don’t like getting into how smooth her/his skin looks. I want the viewer to see the values. I’ll remember next time about the proportions of the stills I upload to the forum, I did not realize until I posted and I said oops! My bad. This is my second post on this forum and I enjoy your advice and thought.
Until the next post, cheers,
Matt
Until the next post, cheers,
Matt
dbclemons
08-20-2005, 12:45 PM
zhuzhu, silverpoint can be just a piece of silver on a stick - nothing more. In fact, you can make decent marks with copper or bronze, also. They make much more subtle (lighter) marks than graphite, even hard leads, but can get dark with some effort. Neat stuff.
Inept
08-20-2005, 01:28 PM
http://www.the-nexus.co.uk/personal/sketch1.jpg
Quick sketch built into a lighting study I guess (30 minutes or so)
Painter 9, lots of liquid ink layers. I'd like to revisit it in one or two different styles, and a bit less rushed.
Quick sketch built into a lighting study I guess (30 minutes or so)
Painter 9, lots of liquid ink layers. I'd like to revisit it in one or two different styles, and a bit less rushed.
stipick_S
08-20-2005, 01:39 PM
I have to agree it is probably my favorite drawing medium. You really have to try it.
Not only are the marks beautifull and delicate but they tarnish over time, which looks outstanding.
Most jewery stores sell silver that can fit into a .9mm mechanical pencil. That is what i use and I have had the same silver lead since 1999 and have barely used any of it (although I use it all the time). On that note you do have to prep your paper, I prefer reeves bfk (but any heavier paper will do), usualy I lay 1 thin coat of gesso on the paper with a litttle marble dust mixed in.
If you can not find it (the silver) and are interested, I will happily send you some of mine (I bought way too much years ago). email me your address. You will have to buy your own mechanical pencil though.
Please no one else ask as I am not the happy silver dispensing man. I dont mind helping a couple people out, but you guys that live in europe and usa should have no problem finding thin silver wire.
Shaun
Not only are the marks beautifull and delicate but they tarnish over time, which looks outstanding.
Most jewery stores sell silver that can fit into a .9mm mechanical pencil. That is what i use and I have had the same silver lead since 1999 and have barely used any of it (although I use it all the time). On that note you do have to prep your paper, I prefer reeves bfk (but any heavier paper will do), usualy I lay 1 thin coat of gesso on the paper with a litttle marble dust mixed in.
If you can not find it (the silver) and are interested, I will happily send you some of mine (I bought way too much years ago). email me your address. You will have to buy your own mechanical pencil though.
Please no one else ask as I am not the happy silver dispensing man. I dont mind helping a couple people out, but you guys that live in europe and usa should have no problem finding thin silver wire.
Shaun
AmyScott-Murray
08-20-2005, 01:52 PM
amy_517,
This is looking fantastic so far! The main thing I would suggest for the face would be to create the main axes on a separate layer ~ draw the main central axis first, then the axes of the brow, eyes, lips, chin, and nose. Keep this first pass loose and gestural, and then go in and refine, adding details at the last. Keep this layer locked, and paint either on top of it or beneath it, depending on your preference.
~Rebeccak
Rebecca, if I'm reading you right, this is basically what I did for the rest of the body. I sketch as linework the shapes and some of the details, paint a base colour totally opaque on top of this (concentrating on the outline) then move my sketch layer above it with 50% transparency, so I can ignore it or use it depending if it helps (working underneath on the paint layer).
Thanks for the encouragement :)
Lynna : thank you :)
Spirit Dreamer : thank you for the compliment :) I'm working in Photoshop not Painter, so no custom brushes for me, but thank you for thinking of it.
Re. your post about SOUL in a painting - this has always been the most difficult part for me. With enough patience and a willingness to redo things ad nauseam, I could make a reasonable copy of the photo, I think.. but you're absolutely right that this isn't what would make it a good painting. Mine always turn out looking kind of... emotionless. It strikes me that this is the hardest part of a drawing, i.e. giving it some kind of impact or whatever it takes to make the viewer emotionally involved. (like zhuzhu's sketches, Squibbit's first one and a few others, where your first reaction on seeing it is much more of a gut reaction 'Oooooh! Wow!!' than a cerebral 'Hmm, nice lines, anatomy excellent..' ) And also something which I'm not sure can be learned.. maybe it's where talent comes into it more than practice, and either you've got it or you haven't.
Does anyone know what I'm talking about, or have I explained it really badly...? Any hints on how to try and achieve this?
Back to work on her face for me :)
Amy
This is looking fantastic so far! The main thing I would suggest for the face would be to create the main axes on a separate layer ~ draw the main central axis first, then the axes of the brow, eyes, lips, chin, and nose. Keep this first pass loose and gestural, and then go in and refine, adding details at the last. Keep this layer locked, and paint either on top of it or beneath it, depending on your preference.
~Rebeccak
Rebecca, if I'm reading you right, this is basically what I did for the rest of the body. I sketch as linework the shapes and some of the details, paint a base colour totally opaque on top of this (concentrating on the outline) then move my sketch layer above it with 50% transparency, so I can ignore it or use it depending if it helps (working underneath on the paint layer).
Thanks for the encouragement :)
Lynna : thank you :)
Spirit Dreamer : thank you for the compliment :) I'm working in Photoshop not Painter, so no custom brushes for me, but thank you for thinking of it.
Re. your post about SOUL in a painting - this has always been the most difficult part for me. With enough patience and a willingness to redo things ad nauseam, I could make a reasonable copy of the photo, I think.. but you're absolutely right that this isn't what would make it a good painting. Mine always turn out looking kind of... emotionless. It strikes me that this is the hardest part of a drawing, i.e. giving it some kind of impact or whatever it takes to make the viewer emotionally involved. (like zhuzhu's sketches, Squibbit's first one and a few others, where your first reaction on seeing it is much more of a gut reaction 'Oooooh! Wow!!' than a cerebral 'Hmm, nice lines, anatomy excellent..' ) And also something which I'm not sure can be learned.. maybe it's where talent comes into it more than practice, and either you've got it or you haven't.
Does anyone know what I'm talking about, or have I explained it really badly...? Any hints on how to try and achieve this?
Back to work on her face for me :)
Amy
Llynna
08-20-2005, 03:46 PM
well, i tried another one today, i have to work on the arms, head, hand and feet.
http://666kb.com/i/10p14z66tm7eo.jpg
http://666kb.com/i/10p14z66tm7eo.jpg
stipick_S
08-20-2005, 03:54 PM
I think that the emotional response everybody is speaking of is entirely personal and very objective thing. Certain individuals are presupposed to having an emotional reaction in any number of different ways to many different pieces. What some may consider an emotional high point might be just another mark or form to another.
I firmly believe that a good drawing that combines the concepts of solid drawing, good line qualtiy, strong forms, strong composition and the understanding of light. Strong masterfully completed drawings seem to elicit a strong emotional response from the majority of the people viewing it. Modern (1912-1925 for ex.), abstract and expressionistic art are many times hit and miss. They depend on the viewers state of mind. For exampe my friend loves Pollock, however, I do not. I love Duchamp, he does not. However we both love Frued and Anthony Ryder.
Take a look at the works on this website.
-http://www.tonyryder.com
While looking at his drawings you will notice that many times there is some sort of emotional connection. Either a "WOW!" how did he do that or "ahhh!" that is beautifull. I have not met many people that are not emotionaly connected to this man's work. Not that they do not exist, I am sure they do, they just seem to be far and few between.
So what is it about his work that comands such strong emotions, lets take a quick look.
http://www.tonyryder.com/d-twilight.htm
This picture, first of all, is in my opinion perfection. Highly idealized human form, beautifull line qaulity and unparalleled tonal rendering. But what more precisly is the catalyst for my emotional draw. I beleive it is in the lighting. A very phsyical attribute (with very precise properties) which he has managed to render in a very ethereal way. He has developed a very romantic lighting scheme in this picture, a delicateness and beauty that he has very carefully rendered. he would not have been able to accomplish this however if he did not have a masters level of understanding in respect to drawing.
In a nut shell:
learn to draw. become a skilled draughtsman ( forget for right now the contemporary ways, you can allways pick that up later) and you too will be able to bring forth that emotional connection. learn to understand line, form and light. and you too will be able to create emotional masterpieces.
Shaun
Hope that helps and is not too confusing. Sorry about my bad grammar and spelling.
I firmly believe that a good drawing that combines the concepts of solid drawing, good line qualtiy, strong forms, strong composition and the understanding of light. Strong masterfully completed drawings seem to elicit a strong emotional response from the majority of the people viewing it. Modern (1912-1925 for ex.), abstract and expressionistic art are many times hit and miss. They depend on the viewers state of mind. For exampe my friend loves Pollock, however, I do not. I love Duchamp, he does not. However we both love Frued and Anthony Ryder.
Take a look at the works on this website.
-http://www.tonyryder.com
While looking at his drawings you will notice that many times there is some sort of emotional connection. Either a "WOW!" how did he do that or "ahhh!" that is beautifull. I have not met many people that are not emotionaly connected to this man's work. Not that they do not exist, I am sure they do, they just seem to be far and few between.
So what is it about his work that comands such strong emotions, lets take a quick look.
http://www.tonyryder.com/d-twilight.htm
This picture, first of all, is in my opinion perfection. Highly idealized human form, beautifull line qaulity and unparalleled tonal rendering. But what more precisly is the catalyst for my emotional draw. I beleive it is in the lighting. A very phsyical attribute (with very precise properties) which he has managed to render in a very ethereal way. He has developed a very romantic lighting scheme in this picture, a delicateness and beauty that he has very carefully rendered. he would not have been able to accomplish this however if he did not have a masters level of understanding in respect to drawing.
In a nut shell:
learn to draw. become a skilled draughtsman ( forget for right now the contemporary ways, you can allways pick that up later) and you too will be able to bring forth that emotional connection. learn to understand line, form and light. and you too will be able to create emotional masterpieces.
Shaun
Hope that helps and is not too confusing. Sorry about my bad grammar and spelling.
weilong
08-20-2005, 04:28 PM
Thank rebeccak :thumbsup:
This is the new work:)
Please point out
Thank:)
http://666kb.com/i/10p18yt1yht6o.jpg
This is the new work:)
Please point out
Thank:)
http://666kb.com/i/10p18yt1yht6o.jpg
Rebeccak
08-20-2005, 04:33 PM
weilong,
Did you see this (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=2560284&postcount=372)? :)
on this page (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=266229&page=25&pp=15), post #372.
I would make the same suggestion for your new piece. :)
~Rebeccak
Did you see this (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=2560284&postcount=372)? :)
on this page (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=266229&page=25&pp=15), post #372.
I would make the same suggestion for your new piece. :)
~Rebeccak
AmyScott-Murray
08-20-2005, 04:35 PM
Thanks Stipick, that's given me a lot to think about. Awesome drawings on that site.
I totally accept that good draughtsmanship is essential.. and that at least is something that can improve with practice and good teaching. I can't help feeling that as Spirit Dreamer said, there is something more than that though... as he said, a way of putting more of yourself into the picture. This would explain some of the pictures which are not technically perfect but still have that 'x-factor'. I dunno, it's giving me a bit of a headache now.:banghead:
I suppose I mean that you could be the best draughtsman in the world, and produce paintings indistinguishable from photos, but if the.... 'something'..... is missing they still won't get that response from the viewer. In Tony Ryder's case I agree that it is a lot to do with the lighting, which is probably something added/enhanced by him rather than directly copied from what's in front of him. All I can do is copy. :sad:
Sorry if I've confused anyone or am missing the point.
I totally accept that good draughtsmanship is essential.. and that at least is something that can improve with practice and good teaching. I can't help feeling that as Spirit Dreamer said, there is something more than that though... as he said, a way of putting more of yourself into the picture. This would explain some of the pictures which are not technically perfect but still have that 'x-factor'. I dunno, it's giving me a bit of a headache now.:banghead:
I suppose I mean that you could be the best draughtsman in the world, and produce paintings indistinguishable from photos, but if the.... 'something'..... is missing they still won't get that response from the viewer. In Tony Ryder's case I agree that it is a lot to do with the lighting, which is probably something added/enhanced by him rather than directly copied from what's in front of him. All I can do is copy. :sad:
Sorry if I've confused anyone or am missing the point.
yAdam
08-20-2005, 04:38 PM
Liking the new stuff from everyone. and thanks for the comments zephyri. Rebecca was right to say i got bogged down in colour. even though i did like some elements it does sort of look a bit of a mess where I was concentrating more on colour than value. Hopefully this tonal piece is better.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/yAdam1/rk_anat2_b_gscale2.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/yAdam1/rk_anat2_b_gscale2.jpg
Rebeccak
08-20-2005, 04:53 PM
Stipick_S / Shaun,
Thanks your your really elegant thoughts on this! Along with Spirit Dreamer's thoughts on emotion in art, I think that this is a really valuable contribution to the dialogue about art and aesthetics that naturally comes into play when artists come together to (literally) draw from the same source.
My two cents are these: Drawing and Painting, particularly Traditional Drawing and Painting, are emotional experiences in and of themselves.
I used to talk with a friend in school, and she said something that surprised me in its honesty but is really true ~ drawing from a live model can sometimes be such an emotional experience that you almost want to cry.
Now, this will probably sound lame and touchy~feely to some, but there is just a sense of profundity one encounters when drawing from a live model that doesn't happen with your everyday experiences. It is somewhat similar to the feeling you have in a good movie where there is an emotional moment and the music swells and you feel the film's impact and message. You get it. It's that kind of high that has kept artists for centuries coming back to figure drawing, again and again and again. And looking at a model for drawing purposes is not sexual. Drawing the human form is extremely challenging, and when one looks at a model and is asked to represent human form in all of its complexity and beauty, it is a complex stimulus that I don't really understand but definitely react to.
Having said that, drawing from photographs such as we are, in utter frankness, is not the same thing. There is the additional factor of the digital medium, which has its advantages and its disadvantages.
I will say, and others may certainly disagree, that working digitally is never an emotional experience for me. Painting digitally for me is more chore than joy, though in perfect honesty, I am a much better digital than traditional painter on some levels. I can draw digitally and LOVE the freedom which it affords me ~ but I am in no way emotionally connected to the Wacom pen, CPU or screen as tools.
We are human beings, and TOUCH and a tactile sense are part of our being human. The digital medium keeps us one step removed from that human sensibility. In truth, I sometimes liken our state to that of a Stephen Hawking ~ unable to communicate without a machine.
We sometimes, in this digital age, underrate our human sensibilities and capabilities. I do not want to think about my neural processing as I am drawing ~ as a TD is asked to think about the complexities of Maya on a project. What humans are capable of doing just with their arms, hand, and brain is astounding on the neural level, but for those of us who are not disabled, like Stephen Hawking, we sometimes underrate what we are able to do with just a piece of compressed charcoal and paper.
Look at zhuzhu's most recent traditional piece. It is the best work I have seen of his so far.
That is my rant for today. :)
In short, I think that Traditional (2D) art is still unmatched in emotional force by Digital (2D) art. I think that as more Traditional artists take to the Digital medium, things will improve. But I see a lot of plastic looking art in the world that has no more emotional impact for me than seeing a Barbie doll. That is just my thought.
:)
~Rebeccak
Thanks your your really elegant thoughts on this! Along with Spirit Dreamer's thoughts on emotion in art, I think that this is a really valuable contribution to the dialogue about art and aesthetics that naturally comes into play when artists come together to (literally) draw from the same source.
My two cents are these: Drawing and Painting, particularly Traditional Drawing and Painting, are emotional experiences in and of themselves.
I used to talk with a friend in school, and she said something that surprised me in its honesty but is really true ~ drawing from a live model can sometimes be such an emotional experience that you almost want to cry.
Now, this will probably sound lame and touchy~feely to some, but there is just a sense of profundity one encounters when drawing from a live model that doesn't happen with your everyday experiences. It is somewhat similar to the feeling you have in a good movie where there is an emotional moment and the music swells and you feel the film's impact and message. You get it. It's that kind of high that has kept artists for centuries coming back to figure drawing, again and again and again. And looking at a model for drawing purposes is not sexual. Drawing the human form is extremely challenging, and when one looks at a model and is asked to represent human form in all of its complexity and beauty, it is a complex stimulus that I don't really understand but definitely react to.
Having said that, drawing from photographs such as we are, in utter frankness, is not the same thing. There is the additional factor of the digital medium, which has its advantages and its disadvantages.
I will say, and others may certainly disagree, that working digitally is never an emotional experience for me. Painting digitally for me is more chore than joy, though in perfect honesty, I am a much better digital than traditional painter on some levels. I can draw digitally and LOVE the freedom which it affords me ~ but I am in no way emotionally connected to the Wacom pen, CPU or screen as tools.
We are human beings, and TOUCH and a tactile sense are part of our being human. The digital medium keeps us one step removed from that human sensibility. In truth, I sometimes liken our state to that of a Stephen Hawking ~ unable to communicate without a machine.
We sometimes, in this digital age, underrate our human sensibilities and capabilities. I do not want to think about my neural processing as I am drawing ~ as a TD is asked to think about the complexities of Maya on a project. What humans are capable of doing just with their arms, hand, and brain is astounding on the neural level, but for those of us who are not disabled, like Stephen Hawking, we sometimes underrate what we are able to do with just a piece of compressed charcoal and paper.
Look at zhuzhu's most recent traditional piece. It is the best work I have seen of his so far.
That is my rant for today. :)
In short, I think that Traditional (2D) art is still unmatched in emotional force by Digital (2D) art. I think that as more Traditional artists take to the Digital medium, things will improve. But I see a lot of plastic looking art in the world that has no more emotional impact for me than seeing a Barbie doll. That is just my thought.
:)
~Rebeccak
stipick_S
08-20-2005, 05:11 PM
right on amy_517!!! That is why I began my rant with "what is emotional is entirely objective." What I believe is not allways going to be what the next person believes and i think that is awesome. You should like what you want to and dislike what you want, I would support a persons likes and dislikes, whether I agreed or disagreed with them.
I am a very scientific person and come from a scientific family. To me emotions are chemical reactions and eletrical impulses triggered by various stimulae. It makes sense to me that one person can influence anothers emotions through the way they handle the physical attributes of their drawing , in the case of Ryder he uses strong compostition and light to create a very stimulating mood. However, to somebody else emotions may be a very spiritual experience. Which i think is great and if that perosn is fufilled by that, then i support that theory as well. In the end it does not matter how we experience emotions, as long as we do.
food for thought- our brain as far as we know, is the only matter in the universe which is trying to understand itself. How amazing is that!
I am a very scientific person and come from a scientific family. To me emotions are chemical reactions and eletrical impulses triggered by various stimulae. It makes sense to me that one person can influence anothers emotions through the way they handle the physical attributes of their drawing , in the case of Ryder he uses strong compostition and light to create a very stimulating mood. However, to somebody else emotions may be a very spiritual experience. Which i think is great and if that perosn is fufilled by that, then i support that theory as well. In the end it does not matter how we experience emotions, as long as we do.
food for thought- our brain as far as we know, is the only matter in the universe which is trying to understand itself. How amazing is that!
Rebeccak
08-20-2005, 05:14 PM
*Whew!*
Having said what I did, I frankly wish to add that some of the work I am seeing here, as well as the thoughts being posted, gives me hope for the Digital Medium.
I think that as folks get unenamoured of the tools and start to push beyond them to real expression ~ and by expression I don't mean crazy, wonky, unskilled drawings / paintings, but rather work which is imbued with emotion and executed with skill ~ then Digital Work will begin, for me, to have the spark of life which I think is often missing.
I think zhuzhu, Spirit Dreamer, and others are great examples of this ~ I can see both challenging the medium, and trying to get the tools to work for them instead of what many of us do, which is to be slave to the tool and the myriad options of the various software packages we are using.
The point of art is not to copy, it is to express something of ourselves that connects with other people. If you feel that your art is not doing that, then it is a matter of reaching deeper and trying to come up with that thing that matters to you about a drawing or painting which you wish to share with others.
I guess this is another two cents, for a total of four cents! :)
~Rebeccak
Having said what I did, I frankly wish to add that some of the work I am seeing here, as well as the thoughts being posted, gives me hope for the Digital Medium.
I think that as folks get unenamoured of the tools and start to push beyond them to real expression ~ and by expression I don't mean crazy, wonky, unskilled drawings / paintings, but rather work which is imbued with emotion and executed with skill ~ then Digital Work will begin, for me, to have the spark of life which I think is often missing.
I think zhuzhu, Spirit Dreamer, and others are great examples of this ~ I can see both challenging the medium, and trying to get the tools to work for them instead of what many of us do, which is to be slave to the tool and the myriad options of the various software packages we are using.
The point of art is not to copy, it is to express something of ourselves that connects with other people. If you feel that your art is not doing that, then it is a matter of reaching deeper and trying to come up with that thing that matters to you about a drawing or painting which you wish to share with others.
I guess this is another two cents, for a total of four cents! :)
~Rebeccak
stipick_S
08-20-2005, 05:30 PM
due to inflation rebecca's 4 cents just went up to 6 cents... =)
okay time for me to post someting on this thread. I promise to by the end of tonight.
shaun
okay time for me to post someting on this thread. I promise to by the end of tonight.
shaun
AmyScott-Murray
08-20-2005, 05:38 PM
The point of art is not to copy, it is to express something of ourselves that connects with other people. If you feel that your art is not doing that, then it is a matter of reaching deeper and trying to come up with that thing that matters to you about a drawing or painting which you wish to share with others.
~Rebeccak
I think this is absolutely right. I need to think a lot more about my own emotional response to what I'm drawing, in parallel with seeing it as a set of shapes and colours on a surface.... cos if I don't really feel anything about it myself, it's not surprising that no-one else does.
Thanks for all the advice, it's been a good discussion.
~Rebeccak
I think this is absolutely right. I need to think a lot more about my own emotional response to what I'm drawing, in parallel with seeing it as a set of shapes and colours on a surface.... cos if I don't really feel anything about it myself, it's not surprising that no-one else does.
Thanks for all the advice, it's been a good discussion.
Rebeccak
08-20-2005, 05:46 PM
Ok, enough 'philosophical' poo from me. :)
Time for reviews!
You guys have really impressed me with your dedication to this thread. I don't think that I am imagining that the quality of everyone's work is going up as a result of everyone's enthusiastic participation. So for those of you who have worked so hard here, thank you. :)
yAdam,
Much better. As you can see, your vision and understanding of the figurative 'puzzle' as such is much better when you eliminate that pesky factor, Color. I think you will be able to take this piece much further now that you have reduced the image to grayscale. Keep building your lights and darks, and constantly do the equivalent of an artist 'stepping back' from the 'canvas', and reduce the zoom on your piece so that you can see this as a whole (Ctrl + "-") and I think that you will begin to see the overall picture much better in terms of values.
jinnseng,
I'm thrilled to see you here after your highly successful run in the Lesson 003 thread! Beautiful start so far, and you know the drill ~ keep working those darks and lights, and start to put in edge contrast ~ some edges which are further away you will want to soften, while some edges which are closer to the viewer you will want to sharpen.
Just keep going with this ~ I would reduce the buttocks in size, extend and shape the arms and hands a bit, and make sure that you establish where the neck and head are in relation to the body by drawing (on a separate layer) the neck and head ~ the head without hair.
dbclemons,
Good progress so far, but I think that the figure lacks a bit of vitality. I think if you start to add more contrast by darkening the background, and try different brushstrokes on the figure and not use the same all over, you will start to get more of a sense of life to the figure, though your rendering job is quite solid.
I might even suggest saving this version, saving a flattened copy, and trying a more gestural, brushstrokey version over top ~ just as an experiment. I would definitely be interested in your results!
SpiritDreamer,
Thanks for these excellent thoughts. You have really become a valuable member of this community, and I really appreciate all of your thoughtful contributions!
zhuzhu,
Bravo! This is frankly, the best work I have seen of yours so far. Your beautiful linework and sensitively rendered features are lovely, and I would love to see more work of yours done in this style.
I frankly like this drawing MUCH more than even your famous watercolor pieces ~ this drawing is highly expressive and very beautiful. :)
Zepyhiri,
Excellent work so far! Regarding the posting of this in the Finished 2D section, absolutely. So long as people don't just use the Reference here and run away without contributing anything to this thread, then I am fine with posting work done from the Reference provided on this thread this elsewhere as well.
One thing for me which is not helping the picture yet is the background. I think what is lacking right now is a Color Climate ~ Is the image to be warm, or cool? A subtle play of the two? Right now it is unclear what the Color/Value relationship of the background to the foreground is. There are also some perspective problems with the architectural features that would need to be clarified.
However, the figure is beautifully rendered so far, and I love the direction you are taking. So I would just suggest leaving the figure for a bit and trying to integrate the background. I really look forward to your results! :)
Danielh68,
Really commendable effort for a relatively short period of time! Might I recommend something? Approach this piece less as an Illustration, and more of a Painting. I think that you will go further with this mentality. Quite often, for those of us with a commercial persuasion (I was trained as an Illustrator, so I know) it is too easy for us to get to a certain point, become satisfied, and quickly finish it off in an Illustrative way so that we are 'done' with a piece. But I happen to know that you are a finearty guy under there, so I would love to see where you can go with this piece if you approach it in a different way.
Inept,
Welcome to the forum! Right now, I would say that the head is too big for the body. What I would recommend is to leave your painting for the time being, and go back and refine your drawing to the point where it feels that things are resolved, and proportional. I like the drawing style you are using, but I think you need to go back and check your measurements against the photograph to see where there are problems. I look forward to seeing your new drawing! :)
Shaun,
Thank you for your thoughts, and for the silverpoint recommendation! I did not know anyone used this anymore!
An excellent draughtsman to look at for Silverpoint drawings is Filippino Lippi. I have a book of his Silverpoint drawings which I treasure. It's called The Drawings of Filippino Lippi and His Circle. I bought it from the National Gallery of Art in Washington, DC.
And thank you for the excellent link! :)
Llynna,
Wow, you are doing a great job on this! I think now that you have the approach down pat, you are really feeling confident, and it shows in this new sketch! Great work, and let's see where it goes! :)
*Whew*! That was a mouthful. You guys are doing excellent work! Keep it up!!! :thumbsup:
~Rebeccak
Time for reviews!
You guys have really impressed me with your dedication to this thread. I don't think that I am imagining that the quality of everyone's work is going up as a result of everyone's enthusiastic participation. So for those of you who have worked so hard here, thank you. :)
yAdam,
Much better. As you can see, your vision and understanding of the figurative 'puzzle' as such is much better when you eliminate that pesky factor, Color. I think you will be able to take this piece much further now that you have reduced the image to grayscale. Keep building your lights and darks, and constantly do the equivalent of an artist 'stepping back' from the 'canvas', and reduce the zoom on your piece so that you can see this as a whole (Ctrl + "-") and I think that you will begin to see the overall picture much better in terms of values.
jinnseng,
I'm thrilled to see you here after your highly successful run in the Lesson 003 thread! Beautiful start so far, and you know the drill ~ keep working those darks and lights, and start to put in edge contrast ~ some edges which are further away you will want to soften, while some edges which are closer to the viewer you will want to sharpen.
Just keep going with this ~ I would reduce the buttocks in size, extend and shape the arms and hands a bit, and make sure that you establish where the neck and head are in relation to the body by drawing (on a separate layer) the neck and head ~ the head without hair.
dbclemons,
Good progress so far, but I think that the figure lacks a bit of vitality. I think if you start to add more contrast by darkening the background, and try different brushstrokes on the figure and not use the same all over, you will start to get more of a sense of life to the figure, though your rendering job is quite solid.
I might even suggest saving this version, saving a flattened copy, and trying a more gestural, brushstrokey version over top ~ just as an experiment. I would definitely be interested in your results!
SpiritDreamer,
Thanks for these excellent thoughts. You have really become a valuable member of this community, and I really appreciate all of your thoughtful contributions!
zhuzhu,
Bravo! This is frankly, the best work I have seen of yours so far. Your beautiful linework and sensitively rendered features are lovely, and I would love to see more work of yours done in this style.
I frankly like this drawing MUCH more than even your famous watercolor pieces ~ this drawing is highly expressive and very beautiful. :)
Zepyhiri,
Excellent work so far! Regarding the posting of this in the Finished 2D section, absolutely. So long as people don't just use the Reference here and run away without contributing anything to this thread, then I am fine with posting work done from the Reference provided on this thread this elsewhere as well.
One thing for me which is not helping the picture yet is the background. I think what is lacking right now is a Color Climate ~ Is the image to be warm, or cool? A subtle play of the two? Right now it is unclear what the Color/Value relationship of the background to the foreground is. There are also some perspective problems with the architectural features that would need to be clarified.
However, the figure is beautifully rendered so far, and I love the direction you are taking. So I would just suggest leaving the figure for a bit and trying to integrate the background. I really look forward to your results! :)
Danielh68,
Really commendable effort for a relatively short period of time! Might I recommend something? Approach this piece less as an Illustration, and more of a Painting. I think that you will go further with this mentality. Quite often, for those of us with a commercial persuasion (I was trained as an Illustrator, so I know) it is too easy for us to get to a certain point, become satisfied, and quickly finish it off in an Illustrative way so that we are 'done' with a piece. But I happen to know that you are a finearty guy under there, so I would love to see where you can go with this piece if you approach it in a different way.
Inept,
Welcome to the forum! Right now, I would say that the head is too big for the body. What I would recommend is to leave your painting for the time being, and go back and refine your drawing to the point where it feels that things are resolved, and proportional. I like the drawing style you are using, but I think you need to go back and check your measurements against the photograph to see where there are problems. I look forward to seeing your new drawing! :)
Shaun,
Thank you for your thoughts, and for the silverpoint recommendation! I did not know anyone used this anymore!
An excellent draughtsman to look at for Silverpoint drawings is Filippino Lippi. I have a book of his Silverpoint drawings which I treasure. It's called The Drawings of Filippino Lippi and His Circle. I bought it from the National Gallery of Art in Washington, DC.
And thank you for the excellent link! :)
Llynna,
Wow, you are doing a great job on this! I think now that you have the approach down pat, you are really feeling confident, and it shows in this new sketch! Great work, and let's see where it goes! :)
*Whew*! That was a mouthful. You guys are doing excellent work! Keep it up!!! :thumbsup:
~Rebeccak
stipick_S
08-20-2005, 06:20 PM
a very inspiring link to metalpoint examples....
http://silverpointweb.com/masters.html
and some technical links on the subject
http://silverpointweb.com/drawingwork.html
http://silverpointweb.com/workshop.html
Edit: I lied...a little more spam.
Check this guy out!!! He is amazing.
he used gold point with photoreal results!!!
http://www.artincontext.org/artist/m/dennis_j_martin/images.htm
rebecca: my opposing curve sketches were all done using silverpoint. =)
ok no more spam from me, the next post will be an actual picture!!
sorry rebecca.
Shaun
http://silverpointweb.com/masters.html
and some technical links on the subject
http://silverpointweb.com/drawingwork.html
http://silverpointweb.com/workshop.html
Edit: I lied...a little more spam.
Check this guy out!!! He is amazing.
he used gold point with photoreal results!!!
http://www.artincontext.org/artist/m/dennis_j_martin/images.htm
rebecca: my opposing curve sketches were all done using silverpoint. =)
ok no more spam from me, the next post will be an actual picture!!
sorry rebecca.
Shaun
AmyScott-Murray
08-20-2005, 07:22 PM
Thanks for the links Stipick, I'd often seen this type of work and had no idea how it was done. Well beyond me to try and emulate, but inspiring all the same :)
pushav
08-20-2005, 09:09 PM
Silverpiont looks like graphite and ballpoint pens. Nice. Surprisingly I have never heard of silverpoint until yesterday.
Thanks
Thanks
SpiritDreamer
08-20-2005, 09:45 PM
Hi Amy
Sorry I gave you a headache.
I singled you out because I saw something in your first piece that had that "X" factor about it, that you mentioned earlier. (to me anyway)
And I just wanted you not to lose it in the improved version.
So don't even doubt your talent.
Just be yourself and what you have in you will find its own way out.
And will show up in your paintings whether you like it or not.
(Just like sweat happens when you work hard.)
Take Care
Glenn
Sorry I gave you a headache.
I singled you out because I saw something in your first piece that had that "X" factor about it, that you mentioned earlier. (to me anyway)
And I just wanted you not to lose it in the improved version.
So don't even doubt your talent.
Just be yourself and what you have in you will find its own way out.
And will show up in your paintings whether you like it or not.
(Just like sweat happens when you work hard.)
Take Care
Glenn
SpiritDreamer
08-20-2005, 09:50 PM
Wow Rebecca!!
I think you just made Burne Hogarth roll over in his grave and smile!:)
Great and inspiring words.
Made my day.
Take care
Glenn
I think you just made Burne Hogarth roll over in his grave and smile!:)
Great and inspiring words.
Made my day.
Take care
Glenn
Rebeccak
08-20-2005, 10:27 PM
Shaun,
Great links! The stuff about Silverpoint is really inspiring ~ I had not known it was still in use, so that is great! :)
Spirit Dreamer,
Aw shucks, thank you! :) Thanks again for all of your valuable contributions! :)
~Rebeccak
Great links! The stuff about Silverpoint is really inspiring ~ I had not known it was still in use, so that is great! :)
Spirit Dreamer,
Aw shucks, thank you! :) Thanks again for all of your valuable contributions! :)
~Rebeccak
AmyScott-Murray
08-20-2005, 11:17 PM
I singled you out because I saw something in your first piece that had that "X" factor about it, that you mentioned earlier. (to me anyway)
LOL!! thank you very much, Spirit Dreamer... and I had assumed that you said it specifically to me because mine all seem to be missing it. I am very happy now.
Update on my painting to come in a couple hours or so.
Hehehe you just made my evening :)
:bounce: :applause: :)
LOL!! thank you very much, Spirit Dreamer... and I had assumed that you said it specifically to me because mine all seem to be missing it. I am very happy now.
Update on my painting to come in a couple hours or so.
Hehehe you just made my evening :)
:bounce: :applause: :)
AmyScott-Murray
08-21-2005, 12:16 AM
OK, it's done sooner than I thought. Not like totally done of course, but as good as I can get it without some more crits :)
http://www.grannys-attic.co.uk/images/amy's/drawing8.jpg
Thanks guys, all help much appreciated.
http://www.grannys-attic.co.uk/images/amy's/drawing8.jpg
Thanks guys, all help much appreciated.
pushav
08-21-2005, 12:23 AM
Amy- Nice work so far! Now it will be time to add some darks and refelctive lights
Keep on going.
Here is my first sketch of the day....
Materials used. Printer paper and .01mm ballpoint papermate brand ballpoint pen.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/pushav/sketches/lifedrawing8.jpg
Any crits?
Keep on going.
Here is my first sketch of the day....
Materials used. Printer paper and .01mm ballpoint papermate brand ballpoint pen.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/pushav/sketches/lifedrawing8.jpg
Any crits?
Rebeccak
08-21-2005, 12:35 AM
amy_517,
WOW!!! That is looking pretty amazing, and miles ahead of your initial post...Great work!!! :applause:
EDIT: looks like you'll be updating your avatar, lol! :)
pushav,
Much better!! The elongated torso and general proportions have really come a long way ~ good work!! The feet are less developed than the rest of the piece, but overall, this has just come a long, long way. Great stuff!! :thumbsup:
~Rebeccak
WOW!!! That is looking pretty amazing, and miles ahead of your initial post...Great work!!! :applause:
EDIT: looks like you'll be updating your avatar, lol! :)
pushav,
Much better!! The elongated torso and general proportions have really come a long way ~ good work!! The feet are less developed than the rest of the piece, but overall, this has just come a long, long way. Great stuff!! :thumbsup:
~Rebeccak
pushav
08-21-2005, 12:45 AM
For some reason it is easier for me to constuct figures with a pen better than a pencil.
AmyScott-Murray
08-21-2005, 12:46 AM
amy_517,
WOW!!! That is looking pretty amazing, and miles ahead of your initial post...Great work!!! :applause:
EDIT: looks like you'll be updating your avatar, lol! :)
~Rebeccak
thanks Rebecca :)
lol, I'd better do that hehe
PushaV - I've tried to do a better range of light and dark with this one, but I think you're right and I haven't quite got it yet. Back to work tomorrow.
WOW!!! That is looking pretty amazing, and miles ahead of your initial post...Great work!!! :applause:
EDIT: looks like you'll be updating your avatar, lol! :)
~Rebeccak
thanks Rebecca :)
lol, I'd better do that hehe
PushaV - I've tried to do a better range of light and dark with this one, but I think you're right and I haven't quite got it yet. Back to work tomorrow.
SpiritDreamer
08-21-2005, 02:01 AM
Hi Amy
:applause:
Mrs. Spirit Dreamer is going to sleep so all I have time to say is:
BEAUTIFUL !!
BEAUTIFUL !!
BEAUTIFUL !!
BEAUTIFUL !!
BEAUTIFUL !!
BEAUTIFUL !!
:applause:
Glenn
PS
BEAUTIFUL !!
:applause:
Mrs. Spirit Dreamer is going to sleep so all I have time to say is:
BEAUTIFUL !!
BEAUTIFUL !!
BEAUTIFUL !!
BEAUTIFUL !!
BEAUTIFUL !!
BEAUTIFUL !!
:applause:
Glenn
PS
BEAUTIFUL !!
stipick_S
08-21-2005, 04:16 AM
Not quite ready to post a pic yet...waiting for camera batteries to charge. In the meantime as I sit looking through this thread I am (as allways) stunned by stahlberg's work. Not only is he a brilliant modeler and texture artist (great skin shader), but his paintings blow me away!!! One thing that is clearly apparent is that if anyone seems to understand light it is Stahlberg. Just look at how well his figure studies are lit.
So I have to ask....
Mr. Stahlberg if it is not inconvenient and should you have the time, could you give us some insight as to your 3d lighting process and your thoguhts on light in 2d pieces as well?
Shaun
So I have to ask....
Mr. Stahlberg if it is not inconvenient and should you have the time, could you give us some insight as to your 3d lighting process and your thoguhts on light in 2d pieces as well?
Shaun
stipick_S
08-21-2005, 04:47 AM
To be honest the post is allmost a waste of everyones time.. The line is so soft and light that itis hard to see much of it, but I must moveon. I did say i I would post something tonight and you bet I will hold myself up to that.
My posts for this picture will total four in all. Each post will outline the steps i will take to complete the drawing.
1)envelope/block in (building basic shapes and angles)
2)development of contour
3)adding darks and lights inside the form.
This first post will consist only of the block in and any updates to the block in will be made as edits to this post so as not to waste space. I expect this portion to last me at least another hour or two as I break the larger shapes into smaller more precise strokes.
I have other pictures but becuase of the light line qaulity of the envelope and block in, the photos did not come out well. So in this case I pretty much recreated the process as an overlay in photoshop. I will post the incremental photos as links so as not to take up loads of precious real estate. the finished block in I will post as a viewable picture.
So here is the link:
http://www.stipick.com/stipickPortfolio/sketchbook/images/figureDrawings/figureDrawing001/blockin001.jpg (http://www.stipick.com/stipickPortfolio/sketchbook/images/figureDrawings/figureDrawing001/blockin001.jpg)
Cheers
Shaun
My posts for this picture will total four in all. Each post will outline the steps i will take to complete the drawing.
1)envelope/block in (building basic shapes and angles)
2)development of contour
3)adding darks and lights inside the form.
This first post will consist only of the block in and any updates to the block in will be made as edits to this post so as not to waste space. I expect this portion to last me at least another hour or two as I break the larger shapes into smaller more precise strokes.
I have other pictures but becuase of the light line qaulity of the envelope and block in, the photos did not come out well. So in this case I pretty much recreated the process as an overlay in photoshop. I will post the incremental photos as links so as not to take up loads of precious real estate. the finished block in I will post as a viewable picture.
So here is the link:
http://www.stipick.com/stipickPortfolio/sketchbook/images/figureDrawings/figureDrawing001/blockin001.jpg (http://www.stipick.com/stipickPortfolio/sketchbook/images/figureDrawings/figureDrawing001/blockin001.jpg)
Cheers
Shaun
pushav
08-21-2005, 06:17 AM
stipick_S- It looks like that her upper body needs to be stretched vertically a little bit more. Then you should be on your way to greatness. Are you gonna work in silverpoint?
SpiritDreamer
08-21-2005, 02:17 PM
Hi Amy
Looked at your piece with fresh eyes this morning.
Two small areas I think can be revisited.
One:
Where bottom of skull connects behind her ear, there is a surface plane there.
Not too visible on photo, but very important.
Soften outside neck line where it runs into ear.
This will put it behind ear in subtle shadow.
Will also make the neck more feminine and graceful. (Like Audrey Hepburn's)
Makes a little indent where skull connects to neck muscle on outside line of neck.
Two:
Make hair above forehead, right side, more pronounced. Hair on right side near forehead needs to be fuller for the 3/4 view. Subtle shadow where hair and skull connect. (Top of right forehead, soften edge, will give it roundness.)
Just nit-picking. But sometimes little subtle details surrounding face really add to the character and mood of the face.
Try what I said on a clear overlay on the head face and neck - if it doesn't help then disregard it.
Really beautiful face with subtle emotion on this new one!
Nice Job!
:thumbsup:
Take Care
Glenn
Looked at your piece with fresh eyes this morning.
Two small areas I think can be revisited.
One:
Where bottom of skull connects behind her ear, there is a surface plane there.
Not too visible on photo, but very important.
Soften outside neck line where it runs into ear.
This will put it behind ear in subtle shadow.
Will also make the neck more feminine and graceful. (Like Audrey Hepburn's)
Makes a little indent where skull connects to neck muscle on outside line of neck.
Two:
Make hair above forehead, right side, more pronounced. Hair on right side near forehead needs to be fuller for the 3/4 view. Subtle shadow where hair and skull connect. (Top of right forehead, soften edge, will give it roundness.)
Just nit-picking. But sometimes little subtle details surrounding face really add to the character and mood of the face.
Try what I said on a clear overlay on the head face and neck - if it doesn't help then disregard it.
Really beautiful face with subtle emotion on this new one!
Nice Job!
:thumbsup:
Take Care
Glenn
AmyScott-Murray
08-21-2005, 03:46 PM
Thank you for your compiments and nitpicking, Spirit Dreamer - it's nice to be appreciated but even nicer to get help improving it. :) I'll get to work on that later today.
ryusen
08-21-2005, 03:59 PM
this was so funny cause my visions been going from blurry to sharp to blurry again today
because of eye surgery and i didnt know if my eyes were acting up or not when i viewed this, hehe
ps.great pic ryusen!
.
whoa.. coming from you it means something.. :) thanks.. sorry i just got the time to read the whole thread only today.. i've been admiring your works..
because of eye surgery and i didnt know if my eyes were acting up or not when i viewed this, hehe
ps.great pic ryusen!
.
whoa.. coming from you it means something.. :) thanks.. sorry i just got the time to read the whole thread only today.. i've been admiring your works..
AmyScott-Murray
08-21-2005, 06:07 PM
Hi Spirit Dreamer
Is this what you had in mind?
http://www.grannys-attic.co.uk/images/amy's/drawing9.jpg
Thanks for your help, and encouragement!
Amy
Is this what you had in mind?
http://www.grannys-attic.co.uk/images/amy's/drawing9.jpg
Thanks for your help, and encouragement!
Amy
jinnseng
08-21-2005, 06:20 PM
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/jinnseng/back2.jpg
I re-worked it with Rebecca's suggestions. I think the values are now more accurate. I ditched trying to use oil brushes and went with ones i'm more comfortable using. I think the hands and feet look off to me. I have a problem when I have to get down to areas where a lot of small details are needed. They always look too liney and have this drawn look while the rest of the piece is smoothed out.
I re-worked it with Rebecca's suggestions. I think the values are now more accurate. I ditched trying to use oil brushes and went with ones i'm more comfortable using. I think the hands and feet look off to me. I have a problem when I have to get down to areas where a lot of small details are needed. They always look too liney and have this drawn look while the rest of the piece is smoothed out.
Rebeccak
08-21-2005, 06:29 PM
jinnseng,
This is becoming a beautiful piece...I love your warm grays!
A few notes:
Her right hand is a tad big. It looks a bit misplaced with reference to where her right arm currently falls. Her left hand looks great, though the thumb needs a bit of refining ~ these areas are tough because so small.
Her right buttock connects in too upward an angle to her right thigh ~ I would double~check the photograph, and try to add a bit more thickness to this area.
I think that her heel would fall a bit farther back toward the right buttock. Additionally, the feet look a bit large, so I would double~check the proportions on those.
But this piece is really coming along swimmingly, and the fact that this is your FIRST figure drawing/painting is just amazing.
Keep going, and post your results! :thumbsup:
~Rebeccak
This is becoming a beautiful piece...I love your warm grays!
A few notes:
Her right hand is a tad big. It looks a bit misplaced with reference to where her right arm currently falls. Her left hand looks great, though the thumb needs a bit of refining ~ these areas are tough because so small.
Her right buttock connects in too upward an angle to her right thigh ~ I would double~check the photograph, and try to add a bit more thickness to this area.
I think that her heel would fall a bit farther back toward the right buttock. Additionally, the feet look a bit large, so I would double~check the proportions on those.
But this piece is really coming along swimmingly, and the fact that this is your FIRST figure drawing/painting is just amazing.
Keep going, and post your results! :thumbsup:
~Rebeccak
pushav
08-21-2005, 10:09 PM
Rebecca- I don't know if I am going to finish that painting due to the better poses that you put in the 2nd lifedrawing thread with hong ly.:cry::drool::arteest:
Rebeccak
08-21-2005, 10:31 PM
Duh...wrong thread! :rolleyes:
~Rebeccak
~Rebeccak
pushav
08-21-2005, 10:34 PM
Lol oops was that spam! Lol!
Do you know any other good artist other than Paul Gauguin? That I may like
Do you know any other good artist other than Paul Gauguin? That I may like
Rebeccak
08-21-2005, 10:37 PM
NOOB.
You are both serious spammers, so you should like each other a lot. Please take what I warned you about seriously and cease to spam the threads.
~Rebeccak
You are both serious spammers, so you should like each other a lot. Please take what I warned you about seriously and cease to spam the threads.
~Rebeccak
SpiritDreamer
08-21-2005, 11:30 PM
Hi Amy...
To my eyes it looks much more appealing.
Soft and sensuous but with alot of class.
The skull neck and hair have a oneness aobut them now, whereas before they looked like separate entities.
Not sure about the center light spot that enters into her eye lashes. Didn't notice it in the smaller version. Might try eliminating it in a trial version just to see what it looks like. If you don't like it, disregard.
Not sure how far you want to take this figure, but I think it would look great as a finished painting. If that is the case, let me know. And I will gladly help you all I can along the way, if you want.
I would first start by depicting with light and shadow the collorbones and pit of the neck. Which have a sensuous "s" shaped curve and would add alot to the rhythm and elegance of the figure. (But unfortunately are not vey visible in the photo of the model.)
Let me know what you think.
Very nice job.
Blending on face and shadows around face are superb.
Take Care
Glenn
PS (I liked your idea for the draped background. Are you still thinking of using that?)
To my eyes it looks much more appealing.
Soft and sensuous but with alot of class.
The skull neck and hair have a oneness aobut them now, whereas before they looked like separate entities.
Not sure about the center light spot that enters into her eye lashes. Didn't notice it in the smaller version. Might try eliminating it in a trial version just to see what it looks like. If you don't like it, disregard.
Not sure how far you want to take this figure, but I think it would look great as a finished painting. If that is the case, let me know. And I will gladly help you all I can along the way, if you want.
I would first start by depicting with light and shadow the collorbones and pit of the neck. Which have a sensuous "s" shaped curve and would add alot to the rhythm and elegance of the figure. (But unfortunately are not vey visible in the photo of the model.)
Let me know what you think.
Very nice job.
Blending on face and shadows around face are superb.
Take Care
Glenn
PS (I liked your idea for the draped background. Are you still thinking of using that?)
PSR
08-21-2005, 11:53 PM
Hi,
A more graphic approach this time. I was going for pencil sketch look, like Zhuzhu's. It looks more like black felt pen though. Still never mind, what do you think?
A more graphic approach this time. I was going for pencil sketch look, like Zhuzhu's. It looks more like black felt pen though. Still never mind, what do you think?
AmyScott-Murray
08-22-2005, 12:28 AM
Hi Spirit Dreamer
Yes, I think I would like to take this further. I'm really pleased with how it's gone so far, I think not bad for something that started off as a way to fill in a bored afternoon... :) I still like the idea of the draped background, too. And of course any help you would like to give me will be very well recieved. :applause:
I tried it before with and without the light patch in her eye. I felt I had to leave it in in order to show that her eyes are open, as without it they look shut.
On reflection (and trying it out again) I think she will have her eyes closed, as it removes an odd bit of tension it was causing.
Is there any chance you could try a quick overpaint, or point me towards some examples, with the s-shape? I'm not totally sure I understand what you're saying.
Thanks again for all your help.
Amy :)
Yes, I think I would like to take this further. I'm really pleased with how it's gone so far, I think not bad for something that started off as a way to fill in a bored afternoon... :) I still like the idea of the draped background, too. And of course any help you would like to give me will be very well recieved. :applause:
I tried it before with and without the light patch in her eye. I felt I had to leave it in in order to show that her eyes are open, as without it they look shut.
On reflection (and trying it out again) I think she will have her eyes closed, as it removes an odd bit of tension it was causing.
Is there any chance you could try a quick overpaint, or point me towards some examples, with the s-shape? I'm not totally sure I understand what you're saying.
Thanks again for all your help.
Amy :)
dbclemons
08-22-2005, 12:59 AM
...
dbclemons,
Good progress so far, but I think that the figure lacks a bit of vitality. I think if you start to add more contrast by darkening the background, and try different brushstrokes on the figure and not use the same all over, you will start to get more of a sense of life to the figure, though your rendering job is quite solid.
I might even suggest saving this version, saving a flattened copy, and trying a more gestural, brushstrokey version over top ~ just as an experiment. I would definitely be interested in your results! ...
~Rebeccak
Thank you for the feedback, Rebeccak, but I'm happy with this one as it is. I understand your comments, but I'm going to let this one stand (or sit) as it is. A gestural version of this pose doesn't appeal to me. I see more appeal in the surface of her back and highlights of her skin. It's a point of view thing. We must be true to our own personal vision, no? :) I have been giving some thought to going back to the painting and completing it there rather tahn digitally, but there's no time for that now.
thanks again,
-DBC
dbclemons,
Good progress so far, but I think that the figure lacks a bit of vitality. I think if you start to add more contrast by darkening the background, and try different brushstrokes on the figure and not use the same all over, you will start to get more of a sense of life to the figure, though your rendering job is quite solid.
I might even suggest saving this version, saving a flattened copy, and trying a more gestural, brushstrokey version over top ~ just as an experiment. I would definitely be interested in your results! ...
~Rebeccak
Thank you for the feedback, Rebeccak, but I'm happy with this one as it is. I understand your comments, but I'm going to let this one stand (or sit) as it is. A gestural version of this pose doesn't appeal to me. I see more appeal in the surface of her back and highlights of her skin. It's a point of view thing. We must be true to our own personal vision, no? :) I have been giving some thought to going back to the painting and completing it there rather tahn digitally, but there's no time for that now.
thanks again,
-DBC
Rebeccak
08-22-2005, 01:03 AM
dbclemons,
*gasps*, *keels* Noooooooooooooooooooooooo....
:)
No worries. ;) After all, everything I say here is merely a suggestion. :) Great work! I hope you will participate in Round 002 *ding*! :)
~Rebeccak
*gasps*, *keels* Noooooooooooooooooooooooo....
:)
No worries. ;) After all, everything I say here is merely a suggestion. :) Great work! I hope you will participate in Round 002 *ding*! :)
~Rebeccak
stipick_S
08-22-2005, 01:39 AM
pushav:
you're right. after i posted i set the drawing away from me and sure enough i noticed the very same problem. Upper torso has already been elongated. Thats the great part about block in, fix your mistakes early.
Since I had such a late start on this thread, I will be doing this figure along with one from part 2. The one from part2 i will be using silver point or possibly gold point if I can get into the city by tommorrow afternoon.
More coming soon I promise. just not tonight...for tonight I build my website....ughhh!
Thanks everyone.
you're right. after i posted i set the drawing away from me and sure enough i noticed the very same problem. Upper torso has already been elongated. Thats the great part about block in, fix your mistakes early.
Since I had such a late start on this thread, I will be doing this figure along with one from part 2. The one from part2 i will be using silver point or possibly gold point if I can get into the city by tommorrow afternoon.
More coming soon I promise. just not tonight...for tonight I build my website....ughhh!
Thanks everyone.
pushav
08-22-2005, 01:45 AM
stipick_S-I was hoping that you saw it befor you started cuz' silverpoint can't be erased.
Yeah I remember when I had a site but now and days I blog it an have a blog gallery.
I cant wait to see silverpoint in action.
Yeah I remember when I had a site but now and days I blog it an have a blog gallery.
I cant wait to see silverpoint in action.
jl034090
08-22-2005, 04:01 AM
Done in Photoshop
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b125/james2/figuredrawing1d4.jpg
James
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b125/james2/figuredrawing1d4.jpg
James
jinnseng
08-22-2005, 04:42 AM
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/jinnseng/back3.jpg
3rd revision. Thanks for the suggestions Rebecca. Now I'm afraid I might have made the right foot too small. I was pulling my hair working on thise things. I hope I can post in the 2nd workshop, but like a lot of people school starts for me this week. Let's hope I have some free time.:shrug:
3rd revision. Thanks for the suggestions Rebecca. Now I'm afraid I might have made the right foot too small. I was pulling my hair working on thise things. I hope I can post in the 2nd workshop, but like a lot of people school starts for me this week. Let's hope I have some free time.:shrug:
Rebeccak
08-22-2005, 04:50 AM
jinnseng,
Beautiful work...will post more comments after the midnite backup...in 5,4,3...
~Rebeccak
Beautiful work...will post more comments after the midnite backup...in 5,4,3...
~Rebeccak
Pshygon
08-22-2005, 02:03 PM
practice practice practice
allenatl
08-22-2005, 02:19 PM
Here's mine. Done in Photoshop.
http://www.allen3d.com/acfigureworkshop_sepia.jpg
http://www.allen3d.com/acfigureworkshop_bk3.jpg
http://www.allen3d.com/acfigureworkshop_sepia.jpg
http://www.allen3d.com/acfigureworkshop_bk3.jpg
Rebeccak
08-22-2005, 02:26 PM
Pshygon,
Good work so far! Nice to see you on the forum! :)
allenatl,
Ooh...I like, I like, I like. Best combination of digital drawing / painting I've seen so far...
~Rebeccak
Good work so far! Nice to see you on the forum! :)
allenatl,
Ooh...I like, I like, I like. Best combination of digital drawing / painting I've seen so far...
~Rebeccak
allenatl
08-22-2005, 05:01 PM
Thanks, rebeccak! That means a lot to me.
Took a peek at the new photos. The foreshortening in there is definitely a challenge.
I'll try to post something there later this week.
Took a peek at the new photos. The foreshortening in there is definitely a challenge.
I'll try to post something there later this week.
b2dermawan
08-22-2005, 09:28 PM
whoops it's kinda late joining this class i know... but hell i'm not gonna skip class 1!
havent done digital for couple years, so guess this classes will surely help me practise, practise and practise! thanks to the forum leader for making them and let me say the level of "sharing-the-knowledge" here in cgtalk is awe-aspiring!
this is my early sketch for figure 1. mainly just to get the big blocks correctly before i dive deeper into details. so please if you find anything silly just shoot em for me! thanks in advance.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/bdermawan/figure1try600pixel.jpg
havent done digital for couple years, so guess this classes will surely help me practise, practise and practise! thanks to the forum leader for making them and let me say the level of "sharing-the-knowledge" here in cgtalk is awe-aspiring!
this is my early sketch for figure 1. mainly just to get the big blocks correctly before i dive deeper into details. so please if you find anything silly just shoot em for me! thanks in advance.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/bdermawan/figure1try600pixel.jpg
pushav
08-23-2005, 12:26 AM
I hope to see your stuff in number 2 workshop. You too spiritdreamer.
Rebeccak
08-23-2005, 12:30 AM
b2dermawan,
No worries! Welcome to the forum. :) You will find that the Open Figure Drawing Workshop series, though it will continue thru successive numbers (so far we are up to 002), each individual OFDW will remain "open" indefinitely. So feel free to post when, and where, you please. :)
The Rebecca Kimmel Anatomy Review threads (001, 002, and 003) are the ones which are technically 'closed' for posting ~ tho they remain open for anyone's perusal at their leisure.
Hope to see more of your work here!
I really like your color scheme here ~ however, you will shortly become familiar with my favorite mantra, VALUE is more important than color. So I would concentrate on a Drawing first, and then a painting.
Check out how allenatl (on this page) has successfully combined "Drawing" with "Painting". Without an established Drawing, Painting can quickly become a confusing process, so I would highly recommend completing a Drawing FIRST. :)
Good luck with this, and please post your results! :)
~Rebeccak
No worries! Welcome to the forum. :) You will find that the Open Figure Drawing Workshop series, though it will continue thru successive numbers (so far we are up to 002), each individual OFDW will remain "open" indefinitely. So feel free to post when, and where, you please. :)
The Rebecca Kimmel Anatomy Review threads (001, 002, and 003) are the ones which are technically 'closed' for posting ~ tho they remain open for anyone's perusal at their leisure.
Hope to see more of your work here!
I really like your color scheme here ~ however, you will shortly become familiar with my favorite mantra, VALUE is more important than color. So I would concentrate on a Drawing first, and then a painting.
Check out how allenatl (on this page) has successfully combined "Drawing" with "Painting". Without an established Drawing, Painting can quickly become a confusing process, so I would highly recommend completing a Drawing FIRST. :)
Good luck with this, and please post your results! :)
~Rebeccak
SpiritDreamer
08-23-2005, 12:35 AM
Hi Amy
Worked on your piece a little last night.
Went a little further than the collar bones, (ha ha)
Couldn't help myself.
Well here are a few of them.
Hope they help you or anybody else seeing them, if even just a little.
And now my words of wisdom for the day (ha Ha)
Can't help myself there, just seems to be my nature, just trying to express myself creatively with words.
A photograph is basically an illusion, a lie to put it more bluntly. Heard it said a long time ago that all artist are liars and I guess that's basically true. We are mastering illusion as we go along. And projecting our thoughts into other people's minds through our creations.
Example: Somebody told Michaelangelo, Hey that doesn't look like Lorenzo the Magnificient. Michealangelo replied that in time no one will remember what Lorenzo actually looks like. But they will remember that he was magnificient because of the statue I just created depicting him that way.
Do the same when you are working from any photograph. Lie a little or a lot. To get your point across if you have one. Or you will just end up being an imitator and not a creative illusionist.
Amy, I am not talking about you or your work. I think you know how I feel about your work. If it wasn't good I wouldn't be messing with it. I am just talking about art and artists in general.
Take care and keep me updated on your painting so I can see the progress. And maybe help you if you need it.
Glenn
http://artbyglenngallegos.com/images/Amy_6_Pictures.JPG
Worked on your piece a little last night.
Went a little further than the collar bones, (ha ha)
Couldn't help myself.
Well here are a few of them.
Hope they help you or anybody else seeing them, if even just a little.
And now my words of wisdom for the day (ha Ha)
Can't help myself there, just seems to be my nature, just trying to express myself creatively with words.
A photograph is basically an illusion, a lie to put it more bluntly. Heard it said a long time ago that all artist are liars and I guess that's basically true. We are mastering illusion as we go along. And projecting our thoughts into other people's minds through our creations.
Example: Somebody told Michaelangelo, Hey that doesn't look like Lorenzo the Magnificient. Michealangelo replied that in time no one will remember what Lorenzo actually looks like. But they will remember that he was magnificient because of the statue I just created depicting him that way.
Do the same when you are working from any photograph. Lie a little or a lot. To get your point across if you have one. Or you will just end up being an imitator and not a creative illusionist.
Amy, I am not talking about you or your work. I think you know how I feel about your work. If it wasn't good I wouldn't be messing with it. I am just talking about art and artists in general.
Take care and keep me updated on your painting so I can see the progress. And maybe help you if you need it.
Glenn
http://artbyglenngallegos.com/images/Amy_6_Pictures.JPG
AmyScott-Murray
08-23-2005, 08:50 AM
B2Dermawan - nice work, good to see that this thread isn't dead yet :) I'm always very tempted to charge in and start painting, but Rebecca is right that some detailed sketches will always help. Also I learned from this thread the usefulness of a greyscale value study before painting.
Spirit Dreamer - thank you very much for your advice and thoughts. I'm working on a 3D model atm but will definitely be coming back to this in the next few days.
With your help and others on this forum, I'm happy enough that my pic looks pretty well like the photo... and as you said, the really artistic part starts now, as I will work to enhance what I've got.
I think I understand about the neck - the edit you've done makes her whole ribcage feel more defined.
As I said to Rebecca earlier on, I want to try and think more about my emotional response to the subject than simply the shapes etc. What strikes me about her (the model) is that she is not a skinny waif-type like models often are, she seems quite muscular and fit. I would really like to give my painting that feeling of strength and vitality from her.
And also do a pose from the Lesson 2 thread, I know I need the practice. :)
If you're interested, I posted my ref drawings for my 3d project on the orthographic drawings thread - if you have a moment to look at them, I'd be really grateful for any opinions or comments. (Update to them will be up in an hour or so). but only if you have time. (Sorry Rebecca if this is spam).
Speak to you later :)
Amy
Spirit Dreamer - thank you very much for your advice and thoughts. I'm working on a 3D model atm but will definitely be coming back to this in the next few days.
With your help and others on this forum, I'm happy enough that my pic looks pretty well like the photo... and as you said, the really artistic part starts now, as I will work to enhance what I've got.
I think I understand about the neck - the edit you've done makes her whole ribcage feel more defined.
As I said to Rebecca earlier on, I want to try and think more about my emotional response to the subject than simply the shapes etc. What strikes me about her (the model) is that she is not a skinny waif-type like models often are, she seems quite muscular and fit. I would really like to give my painting that feeling of strength and vitality from her.
And also do a pose from the Lesson 2 thread, I know I need the practice. :)
If you're interested, I posted my ref drawings for my 3d project on the orthographic drawings thread - if you have a moment to look at them, I'd be really grateful for any opinions or comments. (Update to them will be up in an hour or so). but only if you have time. (Sorry Rebecca if this is spam).
Speak to you later :)
Amy
b2dermawan
08-23-2005, 01:08 PM
thanks amy_517 and rebecca, really aprreciate your suggestions!!
so basically i should do line works first and then paint over it?
hmm.. i must admit that's not been my approach on painting. Usually, in a canvas, after setting the bground, i'd make out "big blocks" correctly first, put tones to establish values, and then detailing based on behaviours of shapes toward "sources of lights". Lines, i believe, would be then automatically created from these processes (eg. from contrasts between tones).
but i really can sense the wisdom behind your suggestions. so this what i'd do, i'll go finish this paintings with my usual approach first, and then i'll start over again with pencil-sketched works and paint over them (tho i'm not yet sure how). and we'll see the results. how about that?
again thanks a bunch! hope you won't grow tired with me (...yet heehee)
so basically i should do line works first and then paint over it?
hmm.. i must admit that's not been my approach on painting. Usually, in a canvas, after setting the bground, i'd make out "big blocks" correctly first, put tones to establish values, and then detailing based on behaviours of shapes toward "sources of lights". Lines, i believe, would be then automatically created from these processes (eg. from contrasts between tones).
but i really can sense the wisdom behind your suggestions. so this what i'd do, i'll go finish this paintings with my usual approach first, and then i'll start over again with pencil-sketched works and paint over them (tho i'm not yet sure how). and we'll see the results. how about that?
again thanks a bunch! hope you won't grow tired with me (...yet heehee)
AmyScott-Murray
08-23-2005, 02:17 PM
b2dermawan - you are working digitally, yes?
What I have found works - this may or may not help you - is to sketch first, value study on a new layer on top, paint the first layer of the real painting on a new layer on top of that, then move the sketch & grayscale layer on top of the painting, varying the opacity/visibility as I work depending what is useful at that point.
I always used to paint the same way as you, but having tried it like this I'm really glad I did. Not telling you what to do or anything, just hoping it might be useful :)
Amy
What I have found works - this may or may not help you - is to sketch first, value study on a new layer on top, paint the first layer of the real painting on a new layer on top of that, then move the sketch & grayscale layer on top of the painting, varying the opacity/visibility as I work depending what is useful at that point.
I always used to paint the same way as you, but having tried it like this I'm really glad I did. Not telling you what to do or anything, just hoping it might be useful :)
Amy
AndyDay
08-23-2005, 07:13 PM
This pencil sketch took me around an hour. I'm not sure what to say about this one except that I hope I'm making SOME progress! Any C/C is really appreciated.
Rebeccak
08-23-2005, 07:26 PM
AndyDay,
Good to see you on the forum! :)
I think you are doing a good job so far, and I would just make a few recommendations ~ I would try lengthening her arms a bit, as currently they appear a bit short. I also always recommend that folks draw the head first without hair and the neck ~ as hair disguises the true placement of the head, and folks almost invariably forget to give enough neck to their figures, causing the head to look a bit squashed.
Do you work digitally at all? Work is infinitely easier to change and tweak that way, but if you work traditionally only, then what I would recommend would be to trace your image, and make modifications to your traced version ~ this gives you a better sense of where your mistakes were, and doing a second version always helps us to correct our initial perceptions.
Good luck, and I hope to see your results! :)
~Rebeccak
Good to see you on the forum! :)
I think you are doing a good job so far, and I would just make a few recommendations ~ I would try lengthening her arms a bit, as currently they appear a bit short. I also always recommend that folks draw the head first without hair and the neck ~ as hair disguises the true placement of the head, and folks almost invariably forget to give enough neck to their figures, causing the head to look a bit squashed.
Do you work digitally at all? Work is infinitely easier to change and tweak that way, but if you work traditionally only, then what I would recommend would be to trace your image, and make modifications to your traced version ~ this gives you a better sense of where your mistakes were, and doing a second version always helps us to correct our initial perceptions.
Good luck, and I hope to see your results! :)
~Rebeccak
b2dermawan
08-24-2005, 06:16 PM
amy517 - no, i usually paint with traditional oil. BUT haven't paint at all for almost 2 yrs, because don't have that luxury time anymore now with such demanding work and travelling all the time. That's why digital seems to be my best option now to paint. But as you'll see im still strugglin adapting again to paint with tablet and laptop's monitor. I did some digital before couple years back while still in school and also frequented on enayla's forum, but it's like a long long time ago. Thanks for the suggestions i'll surely keep that on mind.
spirit dreamer - wow that's deep sir. kinda reminds me to a mentor i know who had said almost similar things.
Been working on it for almost 4 hrs when my eyes took the best of me at last. guess i'll leave an update before i go crashin. If lucky i might finish it tomorow and start the pencil drawing version. C&Cs are most appreciated as always.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/bdermawan/figure1try.jpg
spirit dreamer - wow that's deep sir. kinda reminds me to a mentor i know who had said almost similar things.
Been working on it for almost 4 hrs when my eyes took the best of me at last. guess i'll leave an update before i go crashin. If lucky i might finish it tomorow and start the pencil drawing version. C&Cs are most appreciated as always.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/bdermawan/figure1try.jpg
Rebeccak
08-24-2005, 06:20 PM
b2dermawan,
WOW, impressive progress!!! The back looks beautiful, and it just seems a matter of time and effort before the lower torso and legs look the same...I like the red/green color play a lot, and I like the fact that her hair is reddish and not brown/black...My only crit right now as it is a WIP is that her buttocks are making her look a bit stocky...but I'm sure you will resolve this as you go along (if that's what you want, which obviously, it doesn't have to be :)).
Great job so far, really looking forward to your next update! :thumbsup:
~Rebeccak
WOW, impressive progress!!! The back looks beautiful, and it just seems a matter of time and effort before the lower torso and legs look the same...I like the red/green color play a lot, and I like the fact that her hair is reddish and not brown/black...My only crit right now as it is a WIP is that her buttocks are making her look a bit stocky...but I'm sure you will resolve this as you go along (if that's what you want, which obviously, it doesn't have to be :)).
Great job so far, really looking forward to your next update! :thumbsup:
~Rebeccak
stipick_S
08-24-2005, 06:22 PM
b2dermawan,
oooh la la!!! nice job on the back and hands (the torso in general)
oooh la la!!! nice job on the back and hands (the torso in general)
b2dermawan
08-24-2005, 07:13 PM
rebeccak - thanks for such encouragement! Yes, now that mention it, i think you're right there about her buttocks placement and proportion, will surely fix that tomorrow. Thanks a lot!! i personally think that her sitting position is really2 complicated (twisted in at least three main directions), so it was very challenging try to understand and interpret why her limbs, muscles, skin-folds come out as they are in the pic. i've worked on the hands and upper back mostly, simply because they are most intriguing parts for me to understand, but i wont call'em finished yet. As for colours, i hope that jpeg doesn't eat too much of it, i actually miss my old pallete more though (sigh). thanks again, and am looking forward to more of your invaluable (yet thanks-god-it's-free :) ) insights! they'll surely help me improved.
stipick_S - thanks man, really appreciate it.
stipick_S - thanks man, really appreciate it.
Rebeccak
08-24-2005, 07:36 PM
b2dermawan,
Lol, you're totally welcome! :) It's a deceptively tough pose, but I'm sure if you just keep going, you will definitely get there! :)
~Rebeccak
Lol, you're totally welcome! :) It's a deceptively tough pose, but I'm sure if you just keep going, you will definitely get there! :)
~Rebeccak
jbw
08-24-2005, 08:15 PM
Yippee! I've been waiting for something like this to appear. Was browsing and saw the thread. 10secs later the wacom was in full use! Thanks rebecca and hong for all these awesome classes.
Here's my rough sketch - 10-15 mins. I'll blow it up larger and rework, hopefully I've got most of the proportions correct? (leg looks a tad short and left hand rather puggled!) :)
Please crit if you've the time.
http://www.geocities.com/jbw_2/chardes005jbw.jpg
There are some great paintings/drawings in here, keep up the good work folks! :thumbsup:
ta,
jbw
Here's my rough sketch - 10-15 mins. I'll blow it up larger and rework, hopefully I've got most of the proportions correct? (leg looks a tad short and left hand rather puggled!) :)
Please crit if you've the time.
http://www.geocities.com/jbw_2/chardes005jbw.jpg
There are some great paintings/drawings in here, keep up the good work folks! :thumbsup:
ta,
jbw
Rebeccak
08-24-2005, 08:29 PM
jbw,
Welcome! Glad you found our little corner of CGTalk. :) Looks like you've got a great start! :)
Right now I would say that her arms are rather biggish for the rest of the figure. Those should be pretty simple to scale down, since they look to be in good proportion to each other ~ you may simply want to cut, paste, and scale down til they look more in proportional to her body. She needs a bit more of a waist, as currently she looks a bit scrunched. Her foot is additionally rather large. However, having said all of that, I know how quickly these things change and get corrected while drawing / painting, so I look forward to your update! :)
~Rebeccak
Welcome! Glad you found our little corner of CGTalk. :) Looks like you've got a great start! :)
Right now I would say that her arms are rather biggish for the rest of the figure. Those should be pretty simple to scale down, since they look to be in good proportion to each other ~ you may simply want to cut, paste, and scale down til they look more in proportional to her body. She needs a bit more of a waist, as currently she looks a bit scrunched. Her foot is additionally rather large. However, having said all of that, I know how quickly these things change and get corrected while drawing / painting, so I look forward to your update! :)
~Rebeccak
86er
08-24-2005, 08:48 PM
well ive been following this for a while but here my attemp at it its in progress, Im still relatively new to painting of any kind, been drawing for years but just not painting so trying to learn
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/86er/painting0.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/86er/painting.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/86er/paintinga.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/86er/paintingb.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/86er/painting0.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/86er/painting.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/86er/paintinga.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/86er/paintingb.jpg
Rebeccak
08-24-2005, 08:57 PM
86er,
Hey there, welcome to the forum, and thanks for coming out of the woodwork! We're always glad to have someone new. :)
Looks like you're doing a good job so far, I would just say keep going, and try to get some more darks in there so that you can build more 3D looking form. :) Make sure not to make the classic mistake with this pose of making the buttocks too big (right now they are roughly the same size as the torso, and they should be about 1/3 the size), but that is fairly easy to resolve. I would also recommend putting in a neutral~toned bkgrd asap, as this will help you to see the values of the figure more clearly.
Good luck with this, and looking forward to seeing your progress! :)
~Rebeccak
Hey there, welcome to the forum, and thanks for coming out of the woodwork! We're always glad to have someone new. :)
Looks like you're doing a good job so far, I would just say keep going, and try to get some more darks in there so that you can build more 3D looking form. :) Make sure not to make the classic mistake with this pose of making the buttocks too big (right now they are roughly the same size as the torso, and they should be about 1/3 the size), but that is fairly easy to resolve. I would also recommend putting in a neutral~toned bkgrd asap, as this will help you to see the values of the figure more clearly.
Good luck with this, and looking forward to seeing your progress! :)
~Rebeccak
86er
08-24-2005, 09:01 PM
thanks for tips ive actually put in a background now and still working with it, As a painting ametuer im trying to find sensible techniques to build up colors and light and dark will post an some updates later
jbw
08-25-2005, 10:15 AM
Thanks rebecca,
I'm very grateful for your input and I can see the large arms now - I hadn't noticed that. Possibly scaling these and the foot will solve my issue with the leg looking short? I'll give her a bit more of a waist too. I was too tired last night to work on it but I'll have a go at making the changes tonight. :)
ta,
jbw
I'm very grateful for your input and I can see the large arms now - I hadn't noticed that. Possibly scaling these and the foot will solve my issue with the leg looking short? I'll give her a bit more of a waist too. I was too tired last night to work on it but I'll have a go at making the changes tonight. :)
ta,
jbw
b2dermawan
08-25-2005, 10:09 PM
Can't believe i'd say this, but i finally get tired watching naked woman! damn!
tonight's update:
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/bdermawan/figure1try600pixs.jpg
the higher res version (warning: it's quite a mess there):
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/bdermawan/figure1tryfinflat100.jpg
C&Cs are most appreciated as always.
tonight's update:
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/bdermawan/figure1try600pixs.jpg
the higher res version (warning: it's quite a mess there):
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/bdermawan/figure1tryfinflat100.jpg
C&Cs are most appreciated as always.
woodyradica
08-26-2005, 03:18 PM
Hi Guys
Well heres my attempt....
Keep up the good work brilliant threads.......
Well heres my attempt....
Keep up the good work brilliant threads.......
Rebeccak
08-26-2005, 03:27 PM
woodyradica,
Can only take the briefest of looks at your piece right now, but it looks good so far! I would suggest making the head a bit larger and straightening the angle of her pose ~ I think she is leaning a bit too far forward, when the tension of her pose comes from her holding her back upright, and nearly leaning back a bit.
Thanks for posting, and I'll definitely take a better look later on! :)
~Rebeccak
Can only take the briefest of looks at your piece right now, but it looks good so far! I would suggest making the head a bit larger and straightening the angle of her pose ~ I think she is leaning a bit too far forward, when the tension of her pose comes from her holding her back upright, and nearly leaning back a bit.
Thanks for posting, and I'll definitely take a better look later on! :)
~Rebeccak
sculptgriff
08-29-2005, 11:36 PM
Hi All,
I'm new to cgtalk, but I was very excited to see all the work being posted. I'm tradtionally a sculptor, but I wanted to give this new fangled technology a try. I hope you like it. Keep up the great work everybody!
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/sculptgriff/boooty5.jpg
I'm new to cgtalk, but I was very excited to see all the work being posted. I'm tradtionally a sculptor, but I wanted to give this new fangled technology a try. I hope you like it. Keep up the great work everybody!
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/sculptgriff/boooty5.jpg
electricsketchbook
08-30-2005, 12:24 AM
Yo sculptgriff,
Nice to see you posting now. Nice job on the figure too. I have been considering posting over here as well especially since Hong is going to be around but I have just been so busy lately as you know.
Good job on the figure, I like the little messy strokes in the background and the overall hi-key values on the figure. You knocked this one out pretty fast too. :thumbsup:
Nice to see you posting now. Nice job on the figure too. I have been considering posting over here as well especially since Hong is going to be around but I have just been so busy lately as you know.
Good job on the figure, I like the little messy strokes in the background and the overall hi-key values on the figure. You knocked this one out pretty fast too. :thumbsup:
Rebeccak
08-30-2005, 04:33 AM
@sculptgriff,
Welcome to CGTalk and to the Anatomy Forum! It's great to have you here. :) Wow, so you are also a traditional sculptor? Definitely feel free to post your work here:
3D Traditional Sculptors - Post Photos Of Your Best Pieces! (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=257535)
That would be fabulous! I have always super admired figurative sculpture, and would love to try it one day. Kudos! :)
I think your digital painting is rather beautiful so far ~ I would recommend enlarging your canvas (not image) area to accomodate the complete figure. It would be a shame for a portion of it to be cut off, and you will be able to more accurately judge proportions that way.
One thing I would say with respect to proportion is that you have done what everyone else representing this pose has done, which is to make the buttocks too large for the upper torso. I would recommend scaling the buttocks down so that they are about 1/3 the size of the upper torso. The scaling also applies to the tucked under leg, which is proportional to the buttocks, but too large for the rest of the body. I think that the waist can be elongated as well.
The values in your piece are really coming along well, and after adjusting the proportions a bit, I would just recommend continuing what you've already done, which is to continually refine the values and the drawing as you go along.
Great work so far, and thank you for posting! :thumbsup:
@11th Door,
Do you know Hong? :)
~Rebeccak
Welcome to CGTalk and to the Anatomy Forum! It's great to have you here. :) Wow, so you are also a traditional sculptor? Definitely feel free to post your work here:
3D Traditional Sculptors - Post Photos Of Your Best Pieces! (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=257535)
That would be fabulous! I have always super admired figurative sculpture, and would love to try it one day. Kudos! :)
I think your digital painting is rather beautiful so far ~ I would recommend enlarging your canvas (not image) area to accomodate the complete figure. It would be a shame for a portion of it to be cut off, and you will be able to more accurately judge proportions that way.
One thing I would say with respect to proportion is that you have done what everyone else representing this pose has done, which is to make the buttocks too large for the upper torso. I would recommend scaling the buttocks down so that they are about 1/3 the size of the upper torso. The scaling also applies to the tucked under leg, which is proportional to the buttocks, but too large for the rest of the body. I think that the waist can be elongated as well.
The values in your piece are really coming along well, and after adjusting the proportions a bit, I would just recommend continuing what you've already done, which is to continually refine the values and the drawing as you go along.
Great work so far, and thank you for posting! :thumbsup:
@11th Door,
Do you know Hong? :)
~Rebeccak
electricsketchbook
08-30-2005, 04:48 AM
Hi Rebeccak,
Yeah, Hong is an old friend from several years back, he is quite the draftsman. I haven't spoken with him in about 2 years but I am hoping to get back in contact with him soon, perhaps in this forum. I tried his old website but it is currently not up.
I wanted to congradulate you on starting such a successfull forum here, great job. I will be participating when I get the chance. I took a 3 year detour away from art but in the last 3 weeks I have decided that it is time to get reaquainted so I have begun doing the DSG to start with. Brent (scupltgriff) is a close friend and has a good deal of skill for a young guy and improves very fast. It should be fun to see what he is capable of once he learns to use the software. I need to learn it myself, which is why I am posting. I am awfully rusty but I will improve with time and practice, I hope.
All my best, and congrates again on what you are doing here.
Yeah, Hong is an old friend from several years back, he is quite the draftsman. I haven't spoken with him in about 2 years but I am hoping to get back in contact with him soon, perhaps in this forum. I tried his old website but it is currently not up.
I wanted to congradulate you on starting such a successfull forum here, great job. I will be participating when I get the chance. I took a 3 year detour away from art but in the last 3 weeks I have decided that it is time to get reaquainted so I have begun doing the DSG to start with. Brent (scupltgriff) is a close friend and has a good deal of skill for a young guy and improves very fast. It should be fun to see what he is capable of once he learns to use the software. I need to learn it myself, which is why I am posting. I am awfully rusty but I will improve with time and practice, I hope.
All my best, and congrates again on what you are doing here.
Rebeccak
08-30-2005, 04:56 AM
11th Door,
Thanks so much for your kind comments, and I have seen some of your work on DSG, which is fantastic! Indeed we would love to have you here on the Anatomy Forum as well (It sometimes comes to blows with Roberto, we fight over CGTalkers, lol!) :) Did you attend Art Center as well, or did you connect with Hong thru the LA Fig. Academy? I took a course there with Steve Huston, which was fantastic! :) Hong is indeed an exceptional artist, and a super nice person to boot. I'm happy to have reconnected with him after many, many years! :)
I'm thrilled to have you and scupltgriff, both very talented artists, on the forum, and I really look forward to seeing more of your work! :)
Cheers, :)
~Rebeccak
Thanks so much for your kind comments, and I have seen some of your work on DSG, which is fantastic! Indeed we would love to have you here on the Anatomy Forum as well (It sometimes comes to blows with Roberto, we fight over CGTalkers, lol!) :) Did you attend Art Center as well, or did you connect with Hong thru the LA Fig. Academy? I took a course there with Steve Huston, which was fantastic! :) Hong is indeed an exceptional artist, and a super nice person to boot. I'm happy to have reconnected with him after many, many years! :)
I'm thrilled to have you and scupltgriff, both very talented artists, on the forum, and I really look forward to seeing more of your work! :)
Cheers, :)
~Rebeccak
AmyScott-Murray
08-30-2005, 11:58 PM
Hey all :)
Some great stuff been posted on here while I've been away :)
Went back to my drawing tonight... I have done a better value study for the background and roughed in where I think the pattern will go. Ignore the colours for now, they are very temporary.
I will be doing more on the figure too, hopefully tomorrow.
http://www.grannys-attic.co.uk/images/amy's/drawing/drawing10.jpg
All crits very much appreicated.
Rebecca, if you are still interested (or anyone else :) ) I have my 3D wip up now,
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=271357&highlight=sophie
Thanks
Amy
Some great stuff been posted on here while I've been away :)
Went back to my drawing tonight... I have done a better value study for the background and roughed in where I think the pattern will go. Ignore the colours for now, they are very temporary.
I will be doing more on the figure too, hopefully tomorrow.
http://www.grannys-attic.co.uk/images/amy's/drawing/drawing10.jpg
All crits very much appreicated.
Rebecca, if you are still interested (or anyone else :) ) I have my 3D wip up now,
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=271357&highlight=sophie
Thanks
Amy
Rebeccak
08-31-2005, 12:01 AM
amy_517,
Oh, cool, thank you for linking up your 3D WIP! That is really cool to see, so thank you! I will check it out more thoroughly a bit later... :thumbsup:
With respect to your painting, I definitely think that the values in the bkgrd need to be resolved ~ remember those values!!! ;) Definitely go darker, especially around the body.
Looking forward to seeing your next update! :)
Cheers! :)
~Rebeccak
Oh, cool, thank you for linking up your 3D WIP! That is really cool to see, so thank you! I will check it out more thoroughly a bit later... :thumbsup:
With respect to your painting, I definitely think that the values in the bkgrd need to be resolved ~ remember those values!!! ;) Definitely go darker, especially around the body.
Looking forward to seeing your next update! :)
Cheers! :)
~Rebeccak
MattVogt
08-31-2005, 09:31 PM
I know that I'm extremely late but hey practice is practice
third try:
http://mattvogt.com/art/2d/drawings/figure001.jpg
great work everyone!!!
86er: thx for the process - looks good
third try:
http://mattvogt.com/art/2d/drawings/figure001.jpg
great work everyone!!!
86er: thx for the process - looks good
Rebeccak
08-31-2005, 09:34 PM
MattVogt,
Welcome to the forum! :) You know, technically it's never too late to post here, as all Open Figure Drawing Workshops (OFDWs) remain open indefinitely, even though we will be posting a new set of two drawings every two weeks ~ I will be posting OFDW 003 Sunday or Monday. :)
Can't take a detailed look at your piece right now, but welcome aboard, and I hope you enjoy your stay! :) Do you plan to do any digital or traditional painting? You don't have to, just wondering. :)
It would also be nice if you could share with us a little about your bkgrd / and / or training. :)
Cheers! :)
~Rebecca
Welcome to the forum! :) You know, technically it's never too late to post here, as all Open Figure Drawing Workshops (OFDWs) remain open indefinitely, even though we will be posting a new set of two drawings every two weeks ~ I will be posting OFDW 003 Sunday or Monday. :)
Can't take a detailed look at your piece right now, but welcome aboard, and I hope you enjoy your stay! :) Do you plan to do any digital or traditional painting? You don't have to, just wondering. :)
It would also be nice if you could share with us a little about your bkgrd / and / or training. :)
Cheers! :)
~Rebecca
MattVogt
09-01-2005, 04:11 AM
Thank you for the warm welcome Rebecca! These open drawing sessions are a brilliant idea – oh wait the whole anatomy and figurative art thread is a brilliant idea! First I should mention your tutorials are first rate … I didn’t have the time to take part due to class but now I’m free and ready to dive in. My favorite so far is your opposing curves ( ) tut, it took my lifedrawing to whole new level (note “so far” I can’t wait to browse through the other 70 threads of great art and critiques oh and the kickass tuts) . I believe what you’ve started here is something great and I thank you for it. That’s all I can really do considering it’s free, well that and maybe use the example you’ve set out and give back to the community someway myself.
About me:
I’ve been doing figurative life drawing for less than a year. I’ve been taught on two separate occasions, one by a nice little lady that worked (lived) at an art gallery – she taught more about developing your unique style,work flow and just go with it ("feel the line etc"). She drew very flowing focused mainly on the finished piece. Last week I just finished a two month traditional animation course at Capilano College (North Vancouver) which the life drawing was more focused on structure, foundation and structure. That two month course gave me a strong foundation in character design all the way to storyboarding.
My dream *future job: classical animator & concept artist… as in light table, disk, page flipping ooohh yeah. The way I see it it’s two fold: study of movement (great another thing to observe and study ;) plus the number of drawings I’d produce would be insane! I fear that classical animation might be going the way of the dodo bird, at least in Vancouver it is so I’d be happy doing 3D or maybe Flash. As for the concept artist well ideas and design play a big role in my “targeted” industry oh and I love whipping up speedpaintings
Ok phew and that concludes my essay on drawing…
I did the other too:
http://mattvogt.com/art/2d/drawings/figure002.jpg
And yes I love painting I prefer digital mainly because I can do it in my bedroom and afford it! I'll sit back with traditional when I'm living in the forest...hunting my food
btw your value lesson was invaluable to me! I did a little value study to ease into it:
http://mattvogt.com/pages/randoms/rimg5.jpg
About me:
I’ve been doing figurative life drawing for less than a year. I’ve been taught on two separate occasions, one by a nice little lady that worked (lived) at an art gallery – she taught more about developing your unique style,work flow and just go with it ("feel the line etc"). She drew very flowing focused mainly on the finished piece. Last week I just finished a two month traditional animation course at Capilano College (North Vancouver) which the life drawing was more focused on structure, foundation and structure. That two month course gave me a strong foundation in character design all the way to storyboarding.
My dream *future job: classical animator & concept artist… as in light table, disk, page flipping ooohh yeah. The way I see it it’s two fold: study of movement (great another thing to observe and study ;) plus the number of drawings I’d produce would be insane! I fear that classical animation might be going the way of the dodo bird, at least in Vancouver it is so I’d be happy doing 3D or maybe Flash. As for the concept artist well ideas and design play a big role in my “targeted” industry oh and I love whipping up speedpaintings
Ok phew and that concludes my essay on drawing…
I did the other too:
http://mattvogt.com/art/2d/drawings/figure002.jpg
And yes I love painting I prefer digital mainly because I can do it in my bedroom and afford it! I'll sit back with traditional when I'm living in the forest...hunting my food
btw your value lesson was invaluable to me! I did a little value study to ease into it:
http://mattvogt.com/pages/randoms/rimg5.jpg
zhuzhu
09-01-2005, 07:13 AM
bad sketch...:wise:
http://usera.imagecave.com/zhuzhu/516.jpg
http://usera.imagecave.com/zhuzhu/516.jpg
DreamMaster
09-02-2005, 04:06 AM
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y1/beauty7/anatomystudy1.jpg
Geez, lol I thought it would be easy, but I'm wrong. It took me about uhm... 2 hours. I just noticed that the back isn't properly measured... .. need to make it more sided. :S I hope it's decent enough though.
Geez, lol I thought it would be easy, but I'm wrong. It took me about uhm... 2 hours. I just noticed that the back isn't properly measured... .. need to make it more sided. :S I hope it's decent enough though.
Rebeccak
09-02-2005, 04:20 AM
MattVogt,
Wow, thank you for all of the nice things you've said about the Anatomy Forum! This is highly encouraging, and it is really amazing to get this kind of feedback! Thank you. :)
I think that with resect to your drawing, you need to relax your lines a bit, and slightly loosen up. I know this is easier said than done, particularly in the beginning. What I always recommend is to TRACE your initial drawing, either traditionally or digitally ~ this affords you the ability to see mistakes more clearly, and it takes one away from the mentality of having to get everything right in one go. Once you have traced your image, then redraw, freehand, the same image again. I think that this will really help! :)
Thanks also for showing us your shading exercise. :) I think you might try blending a bit more, and what I would recommend is to blend not using the smudge or blur tools, but practice using varying opacities of lighter and darker values to get things to work. This will train your eye to see values more clearly. You can sample a value with the eyedropper, and then go either slightly darker or slightly lighter, and paint values with varying degrees of opacity. I think using this technique will help you to see values to a greater degree. :)
zhuzhu,
This is not a bad sketch! Traditional watercolors are nearly impossible to correct. You might try doing a more complete pencil sketch first (lightly) before coloring with watercolor. :)
DreamMaster,
Lol, looks can be deceptive! :) Be careful not to scrunch the arms and head too low close to the body ~ right now her torso looks pretty good, but her head and arms seem to be too short proportionally ~ I would raise the head a bit, and adjust the arms accordingly.
Additionally I would suggest starting to blend using the technique I described above ~ sampling tones, and going either slightly lighter or darker, and painting with various opacities over your existing work.
Finally I would recommend adding a darker ground beneath the figure so that the figure does not appear to 'float' in space.
Good work so far, and just continue to push those values and to refine your drawing! :)
Cheers! :)
~Rebeccak
Wow, thank you for all of the nice things you've said about the Anatomy Forum! This is highly encouraging, and it is really amazing to get this kind of feedback! Thank you. :)
I think that with resect to your drawing, you need to relax your lines a bit, and slightly loosen up. I know this is easier said than done, particularly in the beginning. What I always recommend is to TRACE your initial drawing, either traditionally or digitally ~ this affords you the ability to see mistakes more clearly, and it takes one away from the mentality of having to get everything right in one go. Once you have traced your image, then redraw, freehand, the same image again. I think that this will really help! :)
Thanks also for showing us your shading exercise. :) I think you might try blending a bit more, and what I would recommend is to blend not using the smudge or blur tools, but practice using varying opacities of lighter and darker values to get things to work. This will train your eye to see values more clearly. You can sample a value with the eyedropper, and then go either slightly darker or slightly lighter, and paint values with varying degrees of opacity. I think using this technique will help you to see values to a greater degree. :)
zhuzhu,
This is not a bad sketch! Traditional watercolors are nearly impossible to correct. You might try doing a more complete pencil sketch first (lightly) before coloring with watercolor. :)
DreamMaster,
Lol, looks can be deceptive! :) Be careful not to scrunch the arms and head too low close to the body ~ right now her torso looks pretty good, but her head and arms seem to be too short proportionally ~ I would raise the head a bit, and adjust the arms accordingly.
Additionally I would suggest starting to blend using the technique I described above ~ sampling tones, and going either slightly lighter or darker, and painting with various opacities over your existing work.
Finally I would recommend adding a darker ground beneath the figure so that the figure does not appear to 'float' in space.
Good work so far, and just continue to push those values and to refine your drawing! :)
Cheers! :)
~Rebeccak
DreamMaster
09-02-2005, 04:43 AM
DreamMaster,
Lol, looks can be deceptive! :) Be careful not to scrunch the arms and head too low close to the body ~ right now her torso looks pretty good, but her head and arms seem to be too short proportionally ~ I would raise the head a bit, and adjust the arms accordingly.
Additionally I would suggest starting to blend using the technique I described above ~ sampling tones, and going either slightly lighter or darker, and painting with various opacities over your existing work.
Finally I would recommend adding a darker ground beneath the figure so that the figure does not appear to 'float' in space.
Good work so far, and just continue to push those values and to refine your drawing! :)
Cheers! :)
~Rebeccak
Ohhh I see what you mean about head! I wasn't paying attention to it.. I was focusing intensely at torso, legs, and feet. I was trying to color it from what I see because I felt like sampling color would be cheating. I'll work on it with sample and see what happens though. :) Thanks. :D
Lol, looks can be deceptive! :) Be careful not to scrunch the arms and head too low close to the body ~ right now her torso looks pretty good, but her head and arms seem to be too short proportionally ~ I would raise the head a bit, and adjust the arms accordingly.
Additionally I would suggest starting to blend using the technique I described above ~ sampling tones, and going either slightly lighter or darker, and painting with various opacities over your existing work.
Finally I would recommend adding a darker ground beneath the figure so that the figure does not appear to 'float' in space.
Good work so far, and just continue to push those values and to refine your drawing! :)
Cheers! :)
~Rebeccak
Ohhh I see what you mean about head! I wasn't paying attention to it.. I was focusing intensely at torso, legs, and feet. I was trying to color it from what I see because I felt like sampling color would be cheating. I'll work on it with sample and see what happens though. :) Thanks. :D
Rebeccak
09-02-2005, 04:48 AM
DreamMaster,
Hey, Ctrl + Z is cheating, too, but I highly recommend it. ;)
Cheers, :)
~Rebeccak
Hey, Ctrl + Z is cheating, too, but I highly recommend it. ;)
Cheers, :)
~Rebeccak
fredlovebot
09-03-2005, 11:10 AM
Ok, here it goes! This is probably one of my first gesture paintings. Infact, it's probably one of my first paintings where I didn't get totally frustrated and just left to do something else.
I spend around 15-20 minutes on this one and I intend to do MANY more. I would really like someone to point out what could have been done diffrent, what I should remove and so on.
Many thanks for the great photos and all the artwork in here!
http://upl.silentwhisper.net/uplfolders/upload6/figure1.jpg
I spend around 15-20 minutes on this one and I intend to do MANY more. I would really like someone to point out what could have been done diffrent, what I should remove and so on.
Many thanks for the great photos and all the artwork in here!
http://upl.silentwhisper.net/uplfolders/upload6/figure1.jpg
umbrellasky
09-03-2005, 11:42 AM
I'm quite pleased with the shading on this. I see a lot wrong with the form, are torso is too wide for a start but as it's the only one I've had time to do I thought I'd post :)
4b pencil, black karisma pencil on tea stained paper
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v700/enialadam/anatomysketch.jpg
all comments welcome
4b pencil, black karisma pencil on tea stained paper
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v700/enialadam/anatomysketch.jpg
all comments welcome
Rebeccak
09-04-2005, 03:35 PM
gorgnut,
Welcome to the forum! :) Thank you for posting your work. :)
The primary thing I see happening in your drawing is that you have lines which are running more or less parallel to one another. What you want to do is use curves which are offset from one another to describe form. Take a look at my Anatomy Review 002: OPPOSING CURVES (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=255700)for an in~depth explanation of this concept if you have not already done so. Basically, it describes a method for achieving volume by describing form with simple offset pairs of curves. Feel free to ask any questions ~ this is a concept which takes a lot of time to learn in practice. :) Take a look at that Lesson, and feel free to post another drawing! :)
enialadam,
I really like your line quality in this piece! The main thing that I would say is to stretch and lengthen the figure height~wise. I know that it is difficult if not impossible to correct a traditional drawing, so if you would like to continue traditionally, I would suggest either tracing/correcting your existing drawing, just to see where things ought to be lengthened, and then doing another drawing using what you discovered in the tracing.
If you plan to work digitally, then corrections will be that much easier to make.
Definitely look forward to your updates!
Cheers, :)
~Rebeccak
Welcome to the forum! :) Thank you for posting your work. :)
The primary thing I see happening in your drawing is that you have lines which are running more or less parallel to one another. What you want to do is use curves which are offset from one another to describe form. Take a look at my Anatomy Review 002: OPPOSING CURVES (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=255700)for an in~depth explanation of this concept if you have not already done so. Basically, it describes a method for achieving volume by describing form with simple offset pairs of curves. Feel free to ask any questions ~ this is a concept which takes a lot of time to learn in practice. :) Take a look at that Lesson, and feel free to post another drawing! :)
enialadam,
I really like your line quality in this piece! The main thing that I would say is to stretch and lengthen the figure height~wise. I know that it is difficult if not impossible to correct a traditional drawing, so if you would like to continue traditionally, I would suggest either tracing/correcting your existing drawing, just to see where things ought to be lengthened, and then doing another drawing using what you discovered in the tracing.
If you plan to work digitally, then corrections will be that much easier to make.
Definitely look forward to your updates!
Cheers, :)
~Rebeccak
umbrellasky
09-04-2005, 06:52 PM
Thankyou Rebecca much appreciated I will make some changes asap.
Thanks again :D
Thanks again :D
fredlovebot
09-05-2005, 06:34 PM
Thank you, rebeccak! Will jump into it right away :)
Rebeccak
09-05-2005, 06:36 PM
No problem. :) Also, we are on to OFDW 003, (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=273511) so please join us there if you have the chance! :)
Cheers, :)
~Rebeccak
Cheers, :)
~Rebeccak
MattVogt
09-07-2005, 08:00 AM
Rebecca: Thanks for your helpful comments. True it’s extremely hard to relax my lines – I’ll work on it. I’ll definitely trace these old ones and draw them once more. My un-relaxed lines are me just afraid of screwing up but I’m positive tracing will ease me out of that rut - Great tip! As for values your tip about using the colour picker then choosing lighter/darker while simultaneously varying the opacity has improved my last dsg significantly.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Rebeccak
09-07-2005, 04:01 PM
MattVogt,
No problem! Glad to be of help. :) Looking forward to seeing more work! :)
Cheers, :)
~Rebeccak
No problem! Glad to be of help. :) Looking forward to seeing more work! :)
Cheers, :)
~Rebeccak
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