CGTalk - Animation: Bernie Hiwash

stephen2002

10-31-2002, 07:43 PM

for highwash:

As he washes the window, you can't tell. There are normally streaks or something as it is being washed. That little thing that he is sitting on does not seem very safe...

That is one CHUBBY bird :D

Pretty funny...when the flower bin landed on top of him, how did she end up on top of him ;)

The other two returned as the format was not valid :shrug:

Oren Ben-Tov

10-31-2002, 09:30 PM

Thanks for the comments :) I am glad u liked it.
In the design of the film I thought about adding the streaks when he wipes the window, and small water drops over it, but I found out that I have no time to do that and also submit the film on time. But maybe when I will rest a little, I ll find the time to get back and improve it.

I admit that all the ending was too quick(Lauren relly got strong back legs :) ), I wanted to do an extra part with pook(the bird) , and make the ending a bit longer.
As the deadline approached it was making a quick ending or not making an ending at all.In the end I think it came out pretty nice.

Any one got an idea for a diffrent ending?

lildragon

11-01-2002, 09:39 AM

Very well done, I loved it :applause: and the best thing about it, was the length, you would surely get and A+ for this, the bird was jokes :D.

you've recieved the CGtalk choice award, please feel free to display this image anywhere you like :) congrats

http://www.cgtalk.com/plug_award/cgtalk_award.jpg

P.S. if you need a different background, please send me a PM with the RGB values.

salud

Oren Ben-Tov

11-01-2002, 09:59 AM

Thanks alot :)

I uploaded some smaller versions of the film in mpg

21MB - 360*288 - high

13MB - 240*184 - low

The bigger versions before really slowed down the server.
So any one who still didnt download it - now you dont have any excuse :p

Keep those comments/critiques comming plz :)

Oren Ben-Tov

11-01-2002, 10:09 AM

Thanks for the fix,
can I take the trophy home? :thumbsup:

stipen

11-01-2002, 10:48 AM

Great job Oren!
That's really funny and romantic !!
Well done:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

CoolCalb

11-01-2002, 10:51 AM

Hey Oren..

you made it to cgtalk's first page!!!! CONGRATS!

:thumbsup:

great short! but because I appear second, after Raz, in the
"thank you" credits, I must critisize your work :cool:

well... actually.. I got nothing smart to say..
at first, I thought you were crazy going for such a long short (hehe) for a final school project.. but you made it! you pulled it through!

I'll have to take my hat down for it! congratualtions

very funny very well animated!

:beer:

jeroentje

11-01-2002, 11:35 AM

This is one great animation!!! Good music too :thumbsup:
You deserve your place on the first page. 5 stars from me.
Cheers, jeroentje :beer:
1 tiny little comment; when you clean a window, first you soap it, than you wipe it (maybe me being picky ;) )

Oren Ben-Tov

11-01-2002, 12:44 PM

Thanks for the comments everyone

OZ:
U see why I put you second place cuz you just think that I am crazy, and Raz knows I am :P
Thanks for the sales man idea - it really got my head working.

jeroentje:
Your right, but put the blame on Bernie, I am just the director

;)

Wiz

11-01-2002, 02:46 PM

good job oren :)
say were u in 3d deprtment in the army ? (i am from israel.. )
anyways good job :) really awesome

Neural Riptide

11-01-2002, 03:09 PM

I'm having difficulty downloading the files.

If I click on them, it reloads the current page.

If I right-click/save-target-as, it tries to save an htm file, and not an mpg.

any clues?

Oren Ben-Tov

11-01-2002, 03:22 PM

Neural Riptide:

You can try writing the link to the movie in the adress bar in Explorer:

for the 29 MB:
http://www.3dluvr.com/orenbentov/movie/Berniempg3.mpg
for the 13 MB:
http://www.3dluvr.com/orenbentov/movie/Bernie_Mpg2.mpg

and then the 3dluvr pop up should come up with the link.
right click on the blue link and press : save target as...

hope that helps.(also try using explorer I know that other browsers give some problems)

Thanks Wiz, to the question - nope, did it the hard way .:wip:

Neural Riptide

11-01-2002, 03:47 PM

Ah! got it fixed.

3dluvr uses popups. my ad blocking software was the issue.

:)

tjbeseda

11-01-2002, 09:32 PM

truly awesome movie oren. i think you really brought to life each character. also, happy birthday! hope it was a good one!

dmcgrath

11-02-2002, 01:11 AM

I'd just like to say that your animation was brilliant. The story was funny, and the characters round the piece off very well. I hope eveeryone gets a chance to see this. It's very funny and very sweet.

:thumbsup:

facial

11-02-2002, 05:03 AM

What a wonderful stuff, I love them. :beer:

Aljoker

11-02-2002, 05:54 AM

great job Oren :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :applause:

cholo

11-02-2002, 06:03 AM

Fantastic movie! I love the little bird character, too bad in the end we never know what happens to him. :)

LordShaitan

11-02-2002, 06:41 AM

Great animation. Reminded me alot of pixar. Loving the guy character, not really fond of the girl, but stills looks good. Great work!

Wiz

11-02-2002, 06:43 AM

yes ,i too have a pixar like feeling about it ,i think its the bird ,her color and animation has alot of pixar style :)

Oren Ben-Tov

11-02-2002, 09:33 AM

Thanks for the great compliments :)
Best part of making a short is hearing that the viewers enjoy it.

I was influenced from the animation in "For the birds" in making the bird, but also filmed some real birds on a wire near my window :)
The bird was the most fun character to work on,(so small and chubby) In the end I wanted to add a part were he lands from the fall right in to a bigger nest, or with a girl-bird in the nest and so on... but didnt make it to the deadline
:shrug:

Wiz

11-02-2002, 10:25 AM

Just wondering what program you used?
and how much morphs each character got? it seems the women has really few.. he shows alot less emotions then the other chars ,or am i wrong?

Oren Ben-Tov

11-02-2002, 12:24 PM

I used 3dmax 4.2 for the film.
Bernie has about 40 morphs
The women has about 28 morphs
and the bird with the smallest morphs - 18

I had some problems with the women eye brows morph to look right, so maybe thats why it looks like she has less morphs.

Oren Ben-Tov

11-03-2002, 12:15 PM

If anyone had problems downloading the movie from my site at the 3dluvr, It is now showing on pocketmovies too :)

The link:

http://www.pocketmovies.net/detail_276.html

caulfield

11-03-2002, 12:42 PM

I really dig anyone who can churn out an eight minute animated film, but I can't help noticing that nobody has mentioned any flaws yet.

I think you really need to focus on your story telling abilities.

Am I the only one here who has absolutely no frikkin idea what the hell was going on half the time in that film?

And what's with the eight minutes anyway!?!

Knick Knack is great because it's short. It's a SHORT film...you could cut about five minutes out of your stuff, and it would be twice as good.

Try writing your story down on paper, and trying to make some sense of it. And then go and read some Roald Dahl short stories to see how it should look.

Wiz

11-03-2002, 02:02 PM

huh? the only thing i didnt understand is the start where he waves ,but i realized he waves to us :) ,after that evrything was understable and funny ,boy meets girl ,boy tries to imrpess girl ,boy falls from window ,boy meets girl ,girl saves boy ,-love-
and end :) hehe

Chong

11-03-2002, 03:16 PM

Cool, I just saw this. I'll admit, someone being able to do 7+ minutes is impressive indeed. Your story could have been shorter, and stronger, but I won't get into that. Your animation was my main concern. Alot of the motions aren't smooth. They're jerky and don't seem to flow well. This could be because of your rig, or time restraints. You should try paying more attention to arcs, follow thru...etc.. I say it to everyone, it'll make it look much nicer.
You also have a problem with timing in the short. I mean this on two levels: Timing of the actual physical movement, and your comedic timing. Your comedic timing wasn't that bad, but most of the gags could have been better if planned out properly.
The only example I can think of right now is when he starts swinging back and forth across the woman's window. When he swings by the first time, he moves across too slowly(That's the timing with the motion), then, he takes too long to swing back( thats the comedic timing of the gag). Added to that, you could have made that scene funnier by having him struggling and swinging off in one pose, then swinging back in a funnier pose....you get what I mean? I'm not even telling you what I think is funnier, These kind of gags have been done so many times, it helps to pay attention to how they're executed. They've worked for so many years for a reason...

Lastly there were some problems with your Acting. Most of it read well, but there were hit and misses through out. If you want more detail(or u care:)), let me know...

ANyhow, GJ none the less, but next time, I would try doing 2 minutes of polished animation, instead of 7 minutes of problematic animation.
Nice Going none the less.:thumbsup:

shyy

11-03-2002, 03:34 PM

It was good, really funny I like it.
But be better if you showed how she got on top of him :p

Oren Ben-Tov

11-03-2002, 05:36 PM

Chong

Thanks for the long critque, and sure I want you to go into more detail, otherwise how would I improve ? :)
I know that some of the motion is kind of slopy some cuz I didnt have too much time(This is why a 7+ min short could get complicated for a one man job in one simester), and some cuz my computer feed back was too slow...and the 3rd reason is that I have a lot more stuff to learn about animation :)

Spike:

What didnt you understand ?, I thought that the film was pretty clear.(exept the women jump part, and some bird parts)

I agree that there are some too long parts that need to be cut off, but I dont agree that a Short film cant be over 4-5 min, look at Bunny for example(7 min) its a slow film that works good.
I think it depands more about the story you want to tell, and if it is interesting or not.

Chong

11-03-2002, 07:57 PM

I figured it was a time constraint. I've never had the time/patience to finish an entire Short Film myself , and I commend you for that(er..actually I'm jealous;)):thumbsup: .I think you have some awsome potenital, and I've seen your older stuff, you just keep improving...Since it's so long, there are lot's of little things I could point out. But alot of it is just opinion. I'll IM you with the more objective comments if u like.
Again, Great Work.

Chong

11-03-2002, 07:57 PM

Heh, Double Post.

caulfield

11-05-2002, 10:36 AM

Just out of interest, how long did you spend working on the story? I read about PIxar's Bug's LIfe, and their whole team of about 15 story artists spent over a year working on the story alone. And that's how they came up with such a polished movie.

I just don't see the point in spending so much time on a story that hardly makes any sense.

If you just want to show off your animation skills, then you'd be better off sticking to a limit of about ten seconds.

I'm the first person to admit that making a good story is really, really, really hard. But it seems like a lot of people who are praising your film are letting you get away with something that's not really finished.

So I'm not just saying this to you, but everyone else that seems to love your work; the story is everything.

They've been doing animation for almost a hundred years, and CG's only been around for the last twenty. SO do you think it's your pretty facing-ratio shaders that are winning people over? I don't think so. It's the story. It's how the whole thing fits together, and plays out.

Unfortunately, all your fans seem to be totally blind to that fact. Obviously their primitive tastes are satisfied by movement alone.

And it must be the same people who love movies like Episode II. Oh yeah, the story was shit, but who cares!?!

It's that kind of shit that gives CG a bad name. I f there's no story, then keep it to yourself until you've fixed it. If you don't know what I'm talking about, go and see a real film, like Geri's Game, or KNick Knack, and then tell me that Bernie Hiwash hasn't got any story issues.

Seriously, this whole issue is turning CG into a bucket of shit. And it makes me wonder why half you guys are doing it.

stipen

11-05-2002, 11:11 AM

How could you compare Geri's game and student short !!!
How many writters, animators, producers are working on pixar's shorts??
Thoses words are encouraging words, and respect for his work !!
The skills you're talking about comes with maturity and experience in reel productions.
Yes it might not be perfect, or too long but you can't be that hard!

caulfield

11-05-2002, 11:19 AM

I've seen a lot of great animation from a lot of people who are a lot younger than Oren. And like I said, it's not just criticism directed at him; it's directed at anyone who wants to waste time animating something without bothering to bother with a story.

If you want to work on a seat of Max or Maya, and have all your animation directed by someone else, then that's fine. And Oren's definitely up to that standard.

But as soon as you move from still images into time-based art, you'd better be sure you can keep someone's interest.

But if you guys are happy watching films like Ep II, then go for it. Just don't be surprised when people with half a brain don't waste their time having a look.

And PS - you suggested that story telling sklls come with experience. But Oren has that. As far as I can see, Hiwash is his third, so it should be better than the last two.

And a lot of great stories have come from a production team of one. Just check out any Woody Allen film.

lordofmaya

11-05-2002, 07:59 PM

very innovative video !!!

i have no complaints ! you have done some hard work man and we look forward to better and better videos everytime you post one here !!! all the best !!!

:thumbsup:

dmcgrath

11-05-2002, 11:50 PM

Spike, are you really that dissapointed with this movie?
I dont understand where all this hostility is coming from.
Lets face the facts, he did a great job for one semesters worth of work. You have nothing but spiteful critisism for something that is basically okay as a story and an animaiton. Sure, it has problems, but that doesn't mean he did a bad job.
You wax on about people being stupid for liking Star Wars, so what, let them. And you are drawing parallels on other short films, that is fine. But come up with more constructive critisism for people. You aren't helping anything, just venting your own frustrations.

shibbydude

11-06-2002, 02:23 AM

Awesome!!! I love that. It made me laugh. It made me cry... Full of emotion and I love the soundtrack! Excellent!

Chong

11-06-2002, 02:33 AM

Originally posted by dmcgrath
Spike, are you really that dissapointed with this movie?
I dont understand where all this hostility is coming from.
Lets face the facts, he did a great job for one semesters worth of work. You have nothing but spiteful critisism for something that is basically okay as a story and an animaiton. Sure, it has problems, but that doesn't mean he did a bad job.
You wax on about people being stupid for liking Star Wars, so what, let them. And you are drawing parallels on other short films, that is fine. But come up with more constructive critisism for people. You aren't helping anything, just venting your own frustrations.

I totally agree.
Spike, you look like you're trying to start a flame more than help the guy out.

caulfield

11-06-2002, 02:55 AM

You're right to point out that I'm venting my frustrations. I'll admit to that. But I think you missed my point.

My criticism isn't directed at Oren, as such. It's directed at all the other people are failing to appreciate how much is missing from his work.

There's so many people making short films these days, CG and otherwise, but so few are bothering to care about the quality of the story. And that's why we end up with terrible films like Spiderman and Episode II.

On the other hand, some short films are brilliant, even though they're the work of just one person. Knick Knack's story was the work of John Lasseter. Rust Boy's the work of one person. Half of Aardman's early stuff was the work of two, and I think Nick Park did A Grand Day Out all alone.

Woody Allen writes all his own stuff. As did Roald dahl.

And their stories made sense.

If you really don't understand what I'm talking about, and you honestly think that Bernie Hiwash is he perfect little film, then let Disney know so they can close down their enourmous story departments, because their efforts are obviously being wasted on you guys.

In the meantime, have a look at the kind of reviews certain movies are getting, and ask yourself why all the best movies have no CG.

Oren Ben-Tov

11-06-2002, 10:37 AM

Thanks everyone

The story was really hard to come up with, I didn’t have any idea what I want to do for my final college film. It took me about one semester to figure this out, The story idea and storyboard were developed at about a month time, and still there were some parts that were missing that I only figured them out close to the deadline and it shows.
I didn’t have the luxury to spend too much time on the story, so I wanted a fun simple story, something that I will enjoy working on, and people will enjoy watching. (Sitting in a screening room full of people and hearing them laugh made it all worthwhile)
I needed at least 6 more month to finish this film the way I wanted too.

Spike
I don’t see myself as a story artist or a brilliant scriptwriter (but thanks for comparing me to Woody Allen, John Lasseter and Nick Park :) ), I see myself as a beginning animator that has a lot more to learn about this Art.

I would really like to know from you what didn’t make sense in my short, instead of telling me your film isn’t like that film or you are not like this guy.
It will be more helpful and constructive.

Chong
Were are those comments that you promised me? IM me :)

caulfield

11-06-2002, 10:52 AM

Well you should have made it a lot shorter. A sweet little one minute short that makes sense and looks brilliant is always going to leave a much better impression than one like yours.

How did you come to the conclusion than making it eight minutes long was a good idea?

ruzz

11-06-2002, 11:58 AM

Hey spike.

I believe in mercyless criticsm. ask Oren , he used to be my student, and I was somewhat involved in his last short.

however, when a student is putting so much effort,time,
and energy into a film. I think he deserves some cedit.- bare in mind that he had done it practically alone..

as for the story: if someone would come up to you and said that he wanted to make afilm about a couple of birds standing on a wire, when this bigger bird comes and her weight bings all of them down, you would probably say that the story sucks. even its title is weird:"For the birds"..

to make a lon story short, cut some slack man.

Oren Ben-Tov

11-06-2002, 12:07 PM

Spike:
I don’t agree with you that a 1-minute short can leave a better impression then a long one.
There are advantages and cons for each one.
The advantages of making a really short film of course is the way you can polish everything up - the animation, modeling rendering, and it usually end up in being an eye candy or a sweet one punch line short or gag. (And its also good for a quick download over the net : like Alien Song)
The advantages of making a longer films is in the way you can develop the characters to a much bigger depth, their relations to each other, and the story too, the cons are that you need a lot of time and finding a good story that can hold it up.
There is no good or bad when it comes to the time of a short, what’s important is the story you want to tell and the way you do it.

Ruzz:
Whats up man? :)

Jeffo

11-06-2002, 12:57 PM

There are advantages and disadvantages of both a 1 minute short as well as an 8 minute short, however i dont think that you should sacrifice quality because of it. If you haven't much time, i do think that a 1-minute polished short is better than an 8 minute mediocre short, i do think you did a good job for the amount of time you spent on it, but if you wanted to stick with the 8 minutes instead of knocking some time off i would have spent more time on it making it a polished 8 minutes. Story is important, and to be honest, just from an audience stand point i didnt find this story too appealing, it did tend to drag for me. None the less for student work it is pretty good, but when comes time to show an employer what you are capable of are you going to show them 8 minutes and hope they sit there to watch it all and credit you that you did lots of animation, or would they prefer seeing a 1 minute clip of sweet animation?

just my thoughts!

Francis

11-06-2002, 01:03 PM

You did a great job Oren.

However, I agree with Spike and Chong here. A ten second short can have more of an impact on someone than an 8 minute piece.

Although I do agree that with more time , you can stress more on character development. BUT, if you were to make a short in half the amount of time and still manage to attain the same goals, then you would really have something going. Obviously, by spending more time on a shorter segment you could allocate more time, attention to detail, and spirit into the time you have.

Now, my question about your short would be: Did you really need the three characters?

The interaction between Bernie, the bird, and the girl was conflicting. In my opinion, it might have been better if you had split the 8 minutes into two unlrelated 4 minute shorts. One with Bernie fending off the bird and another that played with the relationship/romance between the girl and Bernie.

Just my opinion. Great job though for a student piece! :D

IDownupI

11-06-2002, 01:18 PM

:buttrock:

I have 3dsmax too..

I must say ...WHAT COMPUTER DO YOU HAVE... This is :thumbsup:

i cant make a human before it start to .:..:...:......... LAG

Great work ..:surprised

Oren Ben-Tov

11-07-2002, 09:12 AM

Jeffo
I totally agree with you that 1 min polished animation is better then 8, but as a graduated student I think students are allowed to experience more in an artistic way, that’s one of the last places they will have the time and freedom to do it.
For the Employer make a short show reel from the best parts :)

Francis
At first there were only Bernie and the women, but I really needed a 3rd wheel to help the story developed, the bird gave me all the answers when I got stuck with the script. :)

IDownupI
My computer lagged big time too
:wip: