3D Factory Model for MattePaint

[Winner]

im liking this ... i can see a few repeating textures on the long warehouse - but who cares. maybe the square buildings to the far left need a bit more detail ?

cant wait to see with backplate !

[Woodrodius]

The textures look great! Have you put specularity maps on anything yet? The lighting looks a tad flat in some areas, and a specularity map could help break that up a bit. Might give your night scene a little pop. :)

[mustan9]

That's very cool!

What movie is this for?

The scale of the rails on the train track is to big. It looks like they are a foot or more wide. The thickness of the eletrical wire running from post to post appears to thick as well. With this scale cues it makes the whole scene look like a tiny model.

The detail is amazing!

I will be monitoring this thread, and can't wait to see the final shots!

P.S. Must be fun to work on a movie! :)

[bio2000]

thanks for the replies!!

i don't have specularity maps on most of my textures but it could indeed be usefull for the night shot !! and i do agree that some of the textures do repeat, but the model will be seen from somehow far away! so it doesn't matter in the end ;)

this whole thingee is made for a Luxemburgish movie that plays in 1960. At that time there was a big mining industry in the country, so there were alot of big factories of this type. For now all the factories don't exist anymore, so we have the luck to rebuild them in 3D! :D

it's a really funny project.... can't wait to have the backplates, and start compositing this baby, adding smoke and fx and such :)

[bio2000]

a little update to my nightshot:

- i added some lightsource and started to play with animated smoke elements ;)
but still waiting for those damn backplates :sad:
im thinking of adding some more lights (in windows for example) and some light elements and glows
and it needs more smoke obviously, alot of !!!


anyway here it is:

http://www.remedia.lu/forum_images/cooler_slowmotest.jpg

[mustan9]

That looks amazing! :thumbsup:

Maybe some flashing lights on the smoke stacks. I think your suppose to do this for airplanes (so they don't smack into them when flying by). I searched google for references, but couldn't find any so maybe it's not a standard thing.

I think the train is suppose to have lights on it.

http://obergs.net/nils/g/2003/Night/webshow/images/night.trains.tourist_train.jpg
http://www.railscot.co.uk/West_Highland_Railway/tulloch_at_night.jpg
http://www.trailsofanchorage.com/night_train-6x4.jpg

But from the high up angle it's hard to tell how visible they would be.

Here some factory night shots for some ideas. I think the light sources should be more yellow?? But I suck at lighting :banghead:

http://www.bauerphoto.com/indport/indpics/mFogFactory.JPG
http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/318109/2/Refinery_at_night.jpg
http://www.stillwaterpalladium.com/images/refinerynight.jpg
http://stockscotland.com/images/jc0404.jpg
http://www.photos-of-the-year.com/image/nikon-dslr/562/3114GrangemouthDSC_0835.jpg

How did you do the ambient lighting for the scene? Is it a sky light or something.

[bio2000]

hi mustan9,

thanks alot for those ref. pix! they gave me some cool ideas about lighting setup for the train and the factory. And the lightsources should DEFINATELY be more yellow! that looks really good! The ambient light was achieved with a skylight at a value of 0,7 with a really dark blue/grey as a color!

anyway now i just need to get that freaking backplate :bounce: to start off compositing

[DanielAhlgren]

realy nice, i love it:love:

[mustan9]

The ambient light was achieved with a skylight at a value of 0,7 with a really dark blue/grey as a color!

Are you doing this in 3D Studio Max?? Using the built in sky light feature?

[bio2000]

in 3dsmax yes, with a standard skylight but MentalRay as render engine ;)

[mustan9]

Ok, here is a simple tutorial on how to use the sky light in 3D Studio Max. People always seem to get the same results with sky light, and this is way to get something a little better.

This is an example of the default sky light settings. Sky light uses a single color that is constant in all viewing directions around the sky. So the color straight up is the same color coming from the horizon.

http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/738/default8li.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

In real life this just never happens. The color and brightness coming from straight above is always going to be stronger then from the horizon. There is no light coming from the sky from up under the objects.

http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/1874/directionalskylight2bg.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Here is another example of sky light at night time. The key difference here is that the main source of light is usually the moon. Which is more a central point in the sky that defines the source of light. If there are clouds that the light will be more spread over the sky.

If you look at the night image I posted I reproduced the effect of the moon casting shadows in a given direction. Using just the sky light as the source of light. I guess this is the main point of my little tutorial. It's possible to create directional shadows using the sky light in Max.

Here is how.

http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/7664/gradientmap3fw.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

You have to use a gradient map as the texture source for the color of the sky light.

You want to define a gradient that will reproduce the changes in light from the horizon to the top of the sky. In this example I created something for a moon lit night shot.

To create directional shadows using a sky light you have to rotate the gradient map so that the "white" area at the top of the sphere mapping is in the direction of where the moon is in the sky.

Simple, quick, and easy.

The default settings in Max for the sky light really suck, and no one should use them :)

Keep rocking! :buttrock:

[mustan9]

How's it going? Did you get the plates yet?

[bio2000]

Nope :sad: still haven't got those backplates. I hope to get'em this week! Wait and see :D
Anyway i had to work on another project for a short time so i didn't had time to progress much on this one. I've made a couple of other tests for the image.
First i did a smoke test for the chimneys: ( itried a different color scheme "sunset" here to see how its gonna look) didn't had time to make a proper composition though!

http://www.remedia.lu/forum_images/smoketest.jpg

and here is a lightning/storm test, cause i need to do some kind of storm also :eek: !!!
For the moment im quite happy with this one, but i'll have to wait how its gonna look inside the backplates:

http://www.remedia.lu/forum_images/clouds_lighting-Comp-1-%28000.jpg

as always comments and critiques highly appreciated ! and thanks for not loosing interest in this project :D hehe

[Overchord]

Really great stuff!!

Its a bit hard to tell how your environmental effects will pan out once they are combined (and with the backplates as well I guess) - but look forward to seeing more on that!

It would definetly be a good idea to add some more lights to the night-shots. Perhaps some very dimmed lights from the warehouses and perhaps some coloured "traffic-lights" along the rail-track?



Keep up the good work :thumbsup:

[el-vio]

wow man really impressive work... keep going i will follow your thread

[bio2000]

yep i'll have to add more lights to the nightshots. the "traffic light" is a good idea too. just need to find some models or reference though! i thought about adding more smoke around the whole factory too, but i think doing that in post-prod later on. we'll see if it will be needed anyway! i'll try to post some pictures of the first test we have done ofr this movie later on to keep you guys interested :D

[Kronos01]

i like the environment set up. its looking interesting

[Kronos01]

What lighting scheme are you gonna go with. I think an afternoon sunset look would be nice.

[bio2000]

i'm not quite sure on the color scheme cause im still waiting for those damn plates :shrug:
but as far as i know i will have to do at least one night shot without rain, anotherone with rain and lightning and probably some more with a sunset type of light. Maybe i will have to go for some sky replacement, or adding clouds and sun to the sky. i'll have to see the plates first for that! I hope i'll get them as soon as possible :twisted:

hey mustan9: did ur edit a post of yours to place some info on skylights? or did i miss something?
your mini tutorial seems quite interesting to me! :thumbsup: do you think it'll be possible to send me your "demo-scene" so i could have a look at how you setup your skylight!? (Pm me for my email) Are you using MentalRay to render this or skyline renderer ?? Anyway thanks for the tip! The light looks indeed more interesting than just a plain colour !? Any ideas of how i could integrate colors or parts of my backplate with this kind of principle !?

[rollmops]

Hi bio2000,

Nice image so far... ;)

At first look the lightbleu roofs don't match with the other buildings.
I would love to see the roofs darker, Imagine the shot after the rain.
Needs some haze, athmosphere. You may also want to play with a soft halo around lights...

Keep it up!

[mustan9]

That night shot with the lightening is really cool.

How did you create the clouds?

[bio2000]

hehe :D thank you rollmops for the crits but you know: "elle est pas encore finie l'image, ooooh, papy!" :)
and as i said for the color, i'll have to check that as soon as i got those backplates....

thanks for your interest ;)

to mathew: its a Pbox Particle system in max with Pyrocluster as atmospherics. its quite hard to get the result i would like to have with pyrocluster, but im pretty happy with that one for the moment!!

[bio2000]

Yipeee! i will get the backplates by tomorrow (normally!) so i will start to look about integration and color correction very soon! ;)

[mustan9]

So how did it turn out? Can you post the final image :)

[bio2000]

Hi folks! and thanks for not loosing interest into this project! It has been a VERY long time to get those backplates (finally i just got one :sad:, i should get 7!)
Anyway.... here are the first integrations i had time to do:
Original Backplate:
http://www.remedia.lu/forum_images/final_composite02.jpg

and the first composite with some color correction:

http://www.remedia.lu/forum_images/final_composite01.jpg

I'm not quite satisfied with the results and there are some minor problems that should be fixed.....but as always C&C appreciated ;)

P.s. i will try to render a quicktime tonight and post as link a.s.a.p.!!!

Cheers, steve

[mustan9]

That is very cool! I can't tell it's CG at all.

My only crit would be the smoke. Until I can see it moving I'm not sure if it's too thick or not. Right not it looks like a coal mine or something.

I wonder if adding some street lights in the town would add to the scene? What do you think?

Has the director accepted this shot yet?

[bio2000]

Thanks mustan9 ;) it was the purpose not to see its 3D :D hehe.
Nothing has been approved yet, due to some lack of communication. Anyway i'll have to wait to get the other backplates too! Maybe its going to take another 6 months ;)

I will think about adding some lights to the city, thats not a bad idea in fact! I might try to isolate some windows to give them some light!

[michelmclaren]

hello bio2000 ,,

wowowwww exellent :applause:, i like work http://www.yatoula.com/gif/bebe/garcon_2.gif

[rollmops]

Hi Bio,

Glad to see the result! It's nice as usual ;)
Smoke looks a little blobby. But follow your feeling!

[bio2000]

thanks rollmops :D

i will have to change the scene anyway, cause they've sended me the wrong backplates :sad:
all this work for nothing....makes me :sad:

[bio2000]

Hi Folks!

Finally i have an updated shot to show....the whole thing is quite in its beginning stadium, but i wanted to show it anyway, maybe i will have some good crits an ideas on it!

there are still ALOT of lights missing on some of the towers (im adding them... :sad: and im not quite happy with the background (will try to fix something in post later) but im quite satisfied with how its turning out! The front is also missing...i will need to have some trees or something in the foreground cause its meant to be hidden abit by some trees! I have tried out diff. techniques but couldnt get any descent result...:sad:..if anyone has an idea on creating an interesting foreground for this shot, i will be quite happy to listen to his idea :scream:...
ok enough talking...here's the image:

http://remedia.lu/forum_images/nightshot_close.jpg

comments & crits always welcome !

[mustan9]

It's really great to see an update. This is one thread I've enjoyed watching.

The image looks amazing.

Maybe a parking lot in the foreground would make sense? Usually factories like that would have a large empty parking lot. A couple of cars for the night shift.

[stuh505]

Your original model looks fantastic, it's too bad you can't see any of the texturing details in any of the actual shots...but you know it's there.

This latest shot does not look very real at the moment. Things are simply too plain. The sky is completely uniform and cloudless, etc.

I googled for some factory images to compare to, they all seem to have a lot more lighting

Springfield Charcoal Factory
http://www.wildnorthwest.org/popphoto/resources/photographs/Set01/images/cons0037.jpg

Heinz Ketchup Factory
http://www.mccullagh.org/db9/10d-18/heinz-ketchup-factory-night.jpg

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/371398/2/Factory_At_Night.jpg

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:XZXd3joidtEJ:www.bauerphoto.com/indport/indpics/mFogFactory.JPG

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:KvPqEe9saXsJ:www.bauerphoto.com/indport/indpics/mSnowTankColor.jpg

http://www.fotosearch.it/comp/phd/PHD168/31034.jpg

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:iPsnRoidKYcJ:artsyfartsy.undef.com:3000/8182.l.jpg

Quaker Oats Factory
http://www.daneagleton.com/photos/slides/100_4559.jpg

http://www.dreamstime.com/thumb_6/1107018343H4636f.jpg

Maybe these photos can help give you some more inspiration

Then there is the 1 out of place dark pic :P

http://www.lasipajavaisala.fi/kuvat/factory1.jpg

[bio2000]

Hi folks.....thanks for the replies and the images. Googling is always good for inspiration ;)

to mustan9: i didn't think about a parking lot...cause the factory is supposed to stand behind some trees (look at the image with the little boy!) so i was more thinking about adding some trees in the foreground, and the ground should be covered with grass and stones and stuff.... at least thats what i thought about...but couldnt get any descent result till now!

to stuh505: thanks for the images...there are alot of nice references in there !
as i said on my previous post, the image isnt finished at all, the foreground, sky, clouds and ALOT of lighting elements are still missing in this shot! some will be added later in post (such as the sky for example). The thing about the lights is that the shot should have a somehow "scary" atmosphere...so i'm not sure if i'm going to add too much lights. I quite like it with this dark atmosphere..... anyway we'll see how it turns out! ;)

Finally I'm asking again...if someone has a good technique to share, to add some trees in the foreground of my factory...please share it!! I don't care if it's 2D or 3D but has to look somehow realistic.....;) (where are all the SFX gurus when u need them !? hmmm? :rolleyes: )

[mustan9]

3D trees never look realistic. You will have to use some references of something to paste 2D trees in your scene. This is an area more about compositing and camera matching, and I have no skills in that area :(

From what you've told us before the factory was only going to be seen from a distance. This is a much closer shot then I think you were planning on doing.

If you add trees then you must add the kinds of trees seen from the film. You can't add pine trees if there aren't any pine trees in the film.

[hoodedpython]

Looks realy realistic.
__________________________________________________ _________

PERFECT FEMALE FACE (showthread.php?t=233467&highlight=PERFECT+FEMALE+FACE)

[boboroshi]

This stuff is progressing nicely. I agree with stuh505 - you should push for a more brightly lit night scene. Could cause some render time issues with GI etc, but it'll read better - back plate or not.

[bio2000]

hi folks...
yep this shot is more close than what i was planning first...and i have to add another one that will be even closer, but without trees and stuff just machinery....
Anyway i remembered yesterday that some time ago i was used to use a script called "Treeshop" for 3dsmax, for doing architectural viz. and it worked out quite fine (the script is from angstraum (http://plugins.angstraum.at/) if anyone feels interested) . I made some minor tests yesterday at the office and it starts to look convincing...(will post the image tomorrow when im back at the office!) ... and i definately have to add more lights (spots) on the towers and so on......

thanks for all comments and crits.....now i'll have to work.......ALOT! :twisted:

[michelmclaren]

je dirait un seul mot c'est magnifique , impressionnant :eek::eek::eek:

[bio2000]

hi folks.....as promised a little update on my nightshot. im kinda stuck on it for the moment, so i will leave this image up for crits and comments. i've worked too long on it and can't tell anymore if something is wrong/missing in the image......please help!

First comptest with sky etc...:
http://remedia.lu/forum_images/abstract01_01.jpg

Some minor details that will be fixed: the smoke in the backgound looks to flat and grey. i will try to add some smaller smokes on some of the smaller pipes. a train should pass by in front of the big building (with lights etc...) and has still to be finished :sad:

cheers... ;)

[boboroshi]

My parents house is down in Yorktown, Virginia - right by a refinery and coast guard base. At night when the refinery is going, you can see the blast tower burning. Basically looks like a large fire in the distance. Not sure if that works with what you're doing or not. Just something I thought about.

[bio2000]

hi boboroshi and thanks for the input...the director had the same thought at the very beginning of the movie, so we double checked wit a historian and found out that this isnt the case for this type of factory (metal-mine!?) it's a shame cause it would have look good ontop of some pipes...:)

[bio2000]

ok folks... i need help a bigtime on this one..... here's a new image of my nightshot. im doing some animation tests and smoke tests at the moment, and im having BIG trouble to get the smoke on the furnaces right! Look-wise and motion-wise...so i really need help. For the moment im kinda stuck on a simple particle system (superspray) and rendering is done with Pyrocluster.... I tried to search the forums (even the PFlow thread) but couldnt find a lot of usefull infos for that. I was thinking about using PFlow but have not much knowledge about it, and couldnt achieve great result either! So if there's anyone having a great walktrough on creating realistic smoke (specially the movement!), i'll take it! :D
ok here's te last image:

http://remedia.lu/forum_images/abstract01_02.jpg

p.s. i really don't care about what technique to use (pflow, afterburn, pyrocluster.... whatever!)

[bio2000]

here's a link to a badly compressed quicktime movie (sorenson3 codec, 705Kb) if anyones interested in seeing the movement of the clouds! It's very short. i will try to render a longer one tonight! download it here: AnimTest (http://remedia.lu/forum_images/abstract01.mov)

[rollmops]

Nice Job!

My first critic is on the starting particles.
You've a kind of popping smoke at the bigini, which can begining of their life.
You may want to correct this with a ramp on the radiusPP
Start radius should be = 0.

Chouette atmosphere! :thumbsup:

[bio2000]

thanks rollmops ;) will have a try at that! but obviously there is now radiusPP in 3dsmax ;) hehe.

[mustan9]

Your smoke emitters need to be deeper inside the smoke stacks. You can see the birth of each particle, and this is causing a popping effect at the top of the stack.

I think the smoke could start to fade off sooner.

Also slow down the particles movement. I'm not sure, but if I get the scale of the scene correct then they are moving about 20 miles per hour. I think around 5 to 10 miles per hour would look more realistic.

Personally, I think Pyrocluster produces sh#tty results and don't waste your time with it. AfterBurn would be the best choice for realistic looking results.

[eric P]

:eek::bounce::thumbsup: nice,as usual

[gjeoffreys]

looks great bio :thumbsup: . I think you need to add more lights on your smoke stacks. Or a light aircraft of helicopter crashing into one :eek: (he he). I think this pic off stuh505's shows it well... ...the lights not the crash)

http://www.dreamstime.com/thumb_6/1107018343H4636f.jpg
As for smoke Afterburn would be the way to go. They even have a smoke stack tut if I remember correctly.

[BMS]

Great thread guys! Leant a lot from this :)

[bio2000]

hi all,

just wanted to put a small update, as im still working on some other stuff i didnt had time to finish of this shot. but its coming along. actually i'm testing afterburn for the smoke stacks, and it starts to look really nice. :) so expect an update soon !!!

on the other hand im facing a compositing/removal problem on one of the shot we were comissioned to do... so if any of you guys would give a little help, here's the thread: pole removal link (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=297592)

and thanks to all for all the nice feedback and not loosing interest in this project!
cheers, steve.

[Shayder]

Very nice work! I am very impressed.

I am starting out doing this kind of thing, a one guy FX dept in a production company, and I hope to be at this level one day. Keep it up!

[JesterRace]

Awesome work I have to say, but I also have to agree with the people before me that the amount of lights are off. I lived next to the Shell refinery in Holland for years and my grandpa worked there.

There is the aspect of safety and a factory running 24/7 so basically on steps etc every part is lit by a light so there is the minimal chance of tripping at night.
Smoke stacks and other hihg things have lights every so many meters so helicopters and planes dont fly against it.

I think for the stairs every other step has a lgiht in it. I know this would kill rendertimes to have this many lights but maybe with some maps wiht self illum you can do something.
As a kid i loved driving past the refineries cause they have more lights then christmas trees. Hope that helps you finalize this picture.

[bio2000]

hi folks, i know not many updates lately. i was caught in several xmas projects (its the season i guess!) lol
but anyway, i'm still working on my factory shots as soon as i have time.
for the moment im trying to figure out a way to do some nice clouds. i had that setup before but i am not really satisfied with it. here is an example picture i found on the web, and i really liek the look of it. i was wondering if it would be ebst to go for a full 3D sky (pflow and afterburn/pyrocluster) or if anyone knows of a good technique to combine 2D and 3D clouds !? just wondering.... here is the ref picture i would like to approach:
http://www.remedia.lu/forum_images/bibe1410.jpeg

at its best, it would be cool to have animated lightning in there too ;) i hope i will find out how todo :S

cheers, steve.

[metos]

nice work :applause:
keep it on



drapal :)

[bio2000]

hi folks.... im back again on this project!
I finally got the scanned images in full resolution etc... and im quite happy of that! So i started working on the shots i have and im facing quite a problem...
I have this shot:
http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/2944/snapshotexp063pt.th.jpg (http://img475.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshotexp063pt.jpg)

that needs to be stabilized. i also have a tracker on the bottom of my screen, but as the image is VERY grainy the stabilize doesnt work as i expect! There still is alot of movement on the x+y axis on this particular shot! I already tried to re-do the tracking process alot of time, but couldnt find a suitable way to achieve a good result!
Does anyone have an idea !? Do i have to remove the noise from my shot !? Or what can be done to get a good stabilizing result !?

Thanks for any infos !!

if anyone wants a small QT to give better advice please p.m. me!

[mustan9]

Make a copy of the shot to another file, and the apply a edge detection filter to that copy. Try using that version for the tracking.

[bio2000]

thanks mustan9, i will try that! does a Brightness/Contrast filter do help to? to enhance the contrast between the dark/light parts !?

[mustan9]

Sure give it a try.

If you find your camera is jiggling around after motion tracking the footage. Try using a Position Constraint on the camera to follow several motion tracked points. They will average out to something smoother.

If you have access to Combustion give it's motion tracking a try. I think it's much better then the one in 3D Studio Max. Maya also has a good camera tracking tool as well.

P.S. The shot looks good so far!

[bio2000]

i finally got it :D after 10000 trys i found a point that does track (stabilize) the shot pretty well that i didn't try before!
i did use combustion to do the tracking.... didn't even thought of using max b.t.w. ;)

i will try to post images as im geting more shots done soon. but don't want to reveal too much before the movie is released too ;)

anyway thanks for your help!

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