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View Full Version : Point and poly selection should be in one


Werner
08-08-2005, 08:49 AM
I love Lightwave, and don't think I will migrate to any other software application soon. I did how ever download the Modo demo, and could not really find anything that I could not do in Modeler.

The only thing that really caught my attention was the elemental move tool. The ability to move points or polys without having to choose between point or poly selection was awesome.



My keyboard shows how much I use the point or poly shortcut keys. It would be great to be able to model without having to flip between these selections.



What do you guys think? Will we be able to convince Newtek to ad this to the new release.

PetterSundnes
08-08-2005, 09:02 AM
I agree, I have suggested something similar in the modeler improvement thread. In most programs, that feature is called tweak mode.

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=1622390&#post1622390

RPG2006
08-08-2005, 09:03 AM
Werner,

After trying the demo, I came to exactly the same conclusion.Nifty tool. The only thing that I didin't like was the fact that when moving a point you are presented with two highlighted points. I think one of those is showing where the original position came from. This was a bit confusing to the eye.

One thing I have been thinking with regards v.9 upgrade. I hope very much that we don't lose the facility to drop selections and tools by clicking in a dead area with the mouse. I really missed this when working in modo.

I see from the new XSI demo videos, that they have now adopted the element move function aswell, with the addition of the fact that loops can be moved along the curvature of the actual sub-d mesh. Nice.

Just one ammend to your subject title though, what with the V.9 feature list, it should possibly read "Point, edge and poly selection should be in one"

RPG:thumbsup:

tibes
08-08-2005, 09:08 AM
It's not so bad now you can switch just by taping space bar. I usually find what slows me down is that I might of had some polys or points selected in the other mode, so when you tap space, have to deal with deselecting the points or polys you forgot about. There are some instances where you'd like to keep the selection active in polys and points separate, so I'm not sure what the solution is.

All I know is that I can model much faster in Silo :) I don't tend to use the "Universal" mode in silo though (points, edges and faces smart selection). It's more accurate and very fast to change between the selection modes, since the keys are right next to each other. This is what I mean about lightwave, it's not possible to switch quickly and keep tweaking. It will be interesting to see if they make any changes once edges are implemented.

Rod Seffen
08-08-2005, 09:34 AM
I don't understand some of you people.
Why don't you setup your own personal keybord shortcuts for the most commonly used commands. That's what I do, I have them all setup centered around the arrows keys., and I can hit abut 20 different commands instantly without taking my eyes of the screen or even thinking about it.

Werner
08-08-2005, 10:01 AM
petterms>> yeah, some sort of tweak mode is exactly what we need.

RPG 2003>> hmmm, the elemental tweak tool in XSI sounds nice...would be great to be able to tweak and also to be able to constrain points, edges or polys on edges...like edge sliding.

tibes>> I use spacebar allot to jump between point or poly selection...great tool.

oDDity>> I use my own shortcuts...no problem. We need some tweak tool where you don't have to select points or polys (the shortcuts) before you want to move or rotate them. It's one less click or shortcut during the never ending tweak process.

telamon
08-08-2005, 10:43 AM
I agree, that is one of the main thing I like from Modo. I assume it will be more important when we'll have edges.

Nevertheless, since [8] and the removal of the volume selection from the basic selection, swapping from point to poly is not that tough for the keyboard. I solely hit my space bar no ctrl+g no ctrl+h.

RPG2006
08-08-2005, 11:07 AM
Oddity, what a smug, condescending response.

One I was talking about using a demo, so excuse me if my knowledge of Modo is not in-depth.

Two I was referring to using one click of the mouse to deselect. I've been using that way for years, and it suits me fine. For deselecting I don't want to use the spacebar or any other keyboard key for that matter.

RPG

Nemoid
08-08-2005, 11:15 AM
i quite like the element move tool but i feel good also with lw drag tool. lets say that i find drag more useful when working with ortho views and move points on side view for example. while i find element move very good when i work in perspective only.

in modo u can set element tool behaving like drag if u want, so best of both worlds.:)

and not having to everytime select things is good in many occasions

telamon
08-08-2005, 11:20 AM
OT - Russel, I noticed that the website linked in your signature is pending renewal, any new website from you ?

Personnally I hate the one-click deselect when I click on the tabs or click one pixel away from the menu buttons. Perhaps the bottom left area should be the only one where deselection will be effective :D

RPG2006
08-08-2005, 11:44 AM
Telamon,

Just down to preferences isn't it. The spacebar does my head in, always end up hitting it one to many times:D .

OT-Cheers for mentioning about the site m8. That came as a bit of a shock. Waiting for technical support to get back to me.

RPG:)

Rod Seffen
08-08-2005, 06:53 PM
It takes maybe 1/10th of a second to change from point to poly or back or deselect them or drop your tool, and it doesn't interfere with your modeling in any way if you have appropiate hotkeys set up in a logical fashion.
That's not condescension, it's a fact.

RPG2006
08-08-2005, 07:55 PM
Well thanks for that.:rolleyes:

RPG2006
08-08-2005, 07:59 PM
Removed by RPG

tibes
08-08-2005, 11:35 PM
It takes maybe 1/10th of a second to change from point to poly or back or deselect them or drop your tool, and it doesn't interfere with your modeling in any way if you have appropiate hotkeys set up in a logical fashion.
That's not condescension, it's a fact.

If that works well for you, that's great. I was just stating my opinion, based on the experience I've had with Modeler and Silo. That said, it is a fact that it's faster to tweak in Silo, since the Silo interface is designed with tweaking to be the main method of interaction with the model. I'm sure there are other apps that may be as fast (or faster) than Silo, I'm not trying to start app war here, but I just find that I can think faster than I can get the tools and selections to cooperate in Modeler, for organic modelling at least.

As I said before, I hope NewTek have a think about the general modeling workflow when they add edges to the interface. Modeler is a bit of a Frankenstein as it is. :)

PetterSundnes
08-09-2005, 12:10 AM
tibes, did you check out the animated gif in the LW features thread i posted. What do you think of something like that?

Its basically having tweaking (moving) assigned to the left mousebutton, and adding geometry with the right mousebutton. Take the whole tweak concept one step further. If we then could add the possibility of doubleclicking a model inside of Layout to enter this mode (posted in LW workflow thread), we are one step closer to even speedier modeling.

http://petter.ms/forum/DiMM.gif

tibes
08-09-2005, 12:23 AM
Its basically having tweaking (moving) assigned to the left mousebutton, and adding geometry with the right mousebutton. Take the whole tweak concept one step further. If we then could add the possibility of doubleclicking a model inside of Layout to enter this mode (posted in LW workflow thread), we are one step closer to even speedier modeling.

That would be very cool, I particularly like the layout idea. If it could be used with some sort of automated joint morph correction... :love:

Werner
08-09-2005, 08:31 PM
It takes maybe 1/10th of a second to change from point to poly or back or deselect them or drop your tool, and it doesn't interfere with your modeling in any way if you have appropiate hotkeys set up in a logical fashion.
That's not condescension, it's a fact.

I don't have a problem with hitting a key to swap between point or poly selections.
Like I said, the idea of having a "tweak tool", where we don't have to change between point or poly (or edges in LW 9) before we can select them to make changes, would be great. I want something intelligent enough to know when I place my mouse pointer over an edge, point or more or less in the centre of a poly, it should know exactly what I want to work with.

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