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Por@szek
08-02-2005, 08:58 PM
Hi
I need Your feedback. I need opinion and crits about this model. I must say that this is not my object, but friend ask me to post it couse he have 'technical" problems.
I need Yours constructive crits.
Thanks all
http://www.abandonedland.net/bro/por_01.jpg

http://www.abandonedland.net/bro/por_02.jpg

ps. - 3800 tris used

Mastahful
08-02-2005, 09:25 PM
Hey, I like the model in terms of design, but technically from a quick glance, there are some issues. Particularly with the tight tris above the door in the first pic and on the door in the second...definitely not good, could do with some turning and optimizing..

ArchangelTalon
08-02-2005, 10:00 PM
I'm reeeaally liking the design of this :D

The back door framing and the front door might be better off as intersecting geometry. Like Mastahful said, the mesh is getting a little messy around there.


Also the sails pass right over the entire front door. Could be a bit dangerous for the residents...

Neil
08-02-2005, 10:01 PM
you don't have to have the arch around the door the same mesh as the surrounding wall, doing so makes you draw edges off of every curve, like you did. Just make it a separate mesh and have the ends of the wall around it, hide inside the curve. Then you can have less subsections.

Saramago
08-03-2005, 09:16 AM
This is a really nice design. The sails passing in front of the door is good in terms of gameplay possibilities as it adds a element of challenge. The only tech problem seems to be those poly fans where all the lines come to a point. This is a major no-no. It really screws up lighting,texturing and smoothing. The best solution is to put a few more cuts in there and turn some edges. Work in Editable mesh to avoid the mesh getting any messier.

Look forward to updates. Looking good

kaylon
08-03-2005, 11:42 AM
This is a really nice design. The sails passing in front of the door is good in terms of gameplay possibilities as it adds a element of challenge. The only tech problem seems to be those poly fans where all the lines come to a point. This is a major no-no. It really screws up lighting,texturing and smoothing. The best solution is to put a few more cuts in there and turn some edges. Work in Editable mesh to avoid the mesh getting any messier.

Look forward to updates. Looking good

Work in Edit POLY .. not mesh :) ... to keep a clean mesh and avaoid T junctions etc.

Nice Mill though, same comment, clean up the fans.

K.

Saramago
08-03-2005, 12:03 PM
I'm sure Kaylon has got more experience than me but I don't agree about edit poly. Sure it has some nice tools (I use it for preliminary building) but because of the way it displays the mesh it gives a false impression of neatness hiding potential problems.

However. I don't understand what you say about T junctions. It isn't a problem I have ever noticed.

jhoolmans
08-03-2005, 12:04 PM
Oeeh yea! I really like this design :D love the model
still the mesh is a little messy like the comments above.
can't wait to see this textured though
any concepts?

SHEPEIRO
08-03-2005, 12:57 PM
oh and cut the mesh a bit over door.
intersecting meshes is another bi no no, as you can have hirrble zbuffer issues . and even if you dont engine must use extra calcs to decide which is in front. always use single meshes. as of the fans, i think you can turn the edges within the two sticky up bits euther side of top of door the havwe the rest running up. but i would suggest spliting mesh up futher above door. maybe adding a cut across lintel thing, pos add detail here

Neil
08-03-2005, 05:06 PM
oh and cut the mesh a bit over door.
intersecting meshes is another bi no no, as you can have hirrble zbuffer issues

I think you mean zfighting. Actually intersecting meshes is not that big of deal, just as long as they totally intersect. You get real issues when you try to line them up perfectly, then they start fighting.


On a side note: I'm all for edit poly. You can always convert to edit mesh when you're done. But the tools and mesh flow are so much nicer with edit poly.

Mastahful
08-03-2005, 08:23 PM
Yeah I totally agree about edit poly, however its definitely good practice to convert to edit mesh to check and clean up.

hanzo
08-05-2005, 07:15 AM
great model man, glad to see you back in the game lol. can't wait to see this textured :cool:

I'll keep an eye out

PhilOsirus
08-05-2005, 05:46 PM
Can anyone elaborate on why having multipled edges connected to the same point is "bad"? I thought engines were able to light such meshes properly as long as it is flat.

AdamAtomic
08-05-2005, 05:51 PM
oh and cut the mesh a bit over door.
intersecting meshes is another bi no no, as you can have hirrble zbuffer issues . and even if you dont engine must use extra calcs to decide which is in front. always use single meshes. as of the fans, i think you can turn the edges within the two sticky up bits euther side of top of door the havwe the rest running up. but i would suggest spliting mesh up futher above door. maybe adding a cut across lintel thing, pos add detail here

I was explicitly instructed by Microsoft to use MORE intersecting geometry if it will smooth out the lighting and free up some triangles in my contract work. I think nowadays the real problem with intersecting geometry is making sure the ambient light you paint onto your texture lines up nicely with the model, but then that has always been a concern.

I think aside from the intersection stuff this is looking like a VERY cool game environment, I can't wait to see it textured!

Phil Osirus - There are a couple of things that "fans" can do to a model. One is make it harder for a tri-stripping algorithm to divide it up efficiently. The other is you can get some abnormalities if your engine is using a simple guaraud (sp?) shader. That shader works by averaging the normals of vertices, so if you have a fan, especially with long thin strips like on this model, you can sometimes see some artifacts or oddities as a result. There are many game engines now that use a more realistic lighting algorithm, so it is not as big a problem as it used to be, but it is still very good practice. Usually you see it come up in cylinder caps and stuff. There are some more tips about fans and mesh cleanliness in the pinned threads.

*edit - hehe, sorry Talon!

ArchangelTalon
08-05-2005, 05:51 PM
*edit; Oops, with reguards to two posts above. Adam got in a reply beore me :P

As far as I know, it's not really a fatal flaw, but it can cause some really ugly lighting glitches and it messes up the tri strip flow quite a bit (although the latter isn't such a major problem on PCs/newer consoles, as I understand it).

At some points I think they're just unavoidable, though :shrug:

Por@szek
08-06-2005, 02:41 AM
Whoa thanks guys. A lot of answers.
I'm glad You like it and I must say that I like this also. As I write in the main post this is not mine. Its my friend model. He had a technical problems to post it, and I post it by him. The main subject was that I say he is good artist and he didn't believe me, but this is a type of man who doesn't believe in his own skills.
Anyway I won't answer for the post, sorry guys, I'm thankfull that You answer. As I said this is not my and probably here won't be any updates (maybe when he believe in him self after Your posts :) ).

I see also that here starts nice discusion about intersections and I must say that here You put some nice knowledge about this and I'm gratefull for that. Anyway to much depends from type of game and engine. Anyway I agree with that there are few places in the model to fix them.

Thanks again people.

(hanzo - dude as I said its not mine, but I'm not out from game art, I'm preparing something, but I won't post it yet. Game art is my life so why I should be offline in this subject? :D Unfortunatelly i don't have enough time to sit on it harder than I want)

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