Info to go online straight after the Lux event!

[LNT]

cool,looking forward to it...thanks for the heads up

[Parsec3d]

so .. all went well???

[c-g]

so .. all went well???

Considering your post time was one minute into the event it is hard to say. :)

[Parsec3d]

ok ok ,, :)


...

already ???? ;)

[dapeter2]

http://www.luxology.com/modo/201/

[mlmiller1983]

http://www.luxology.com/modo/201/

Modo 201 looks to give ZBrush a run for their money.

[ambient-whisper]

Modo 201 looks to give ZBrush a run for their money.

considering theyre completely 2 different products, one can easily handle editing of 2+ million poly models, and a whole suite of projection/stenciling/brush/2.5d alpha tools. not really. considering zb costs also almost 1/2 of modo.

but that being said. this update of modo looks interesting. im wondering how they implemented their pre-selection highlighting. because it is an often asked topic, but i seen it implemented completely wrong, to the point that it served no purpose before. so i hope its not something that is just there, but actually works how it should. ( ie, being able to grab and tweak verts while your cursor is nowhere near it. ) this would make modo a lot more attractive as an organic modeller, than it is now.

[Mike RB]

If you can paint micropoly displacements in realtime it will probably go a long way to eliminating what people actually use zbrush for, creating normal maps. Supposedly there will be videos up soon....

Mike

[ChristianChoi]

Crap. I JUST purchased Modo 102 last month and havn't even licensed it yet. I wonder if they will take it back and return it for Modo 201?

Christian Choi

[ambient-whisper]

If you can paint micropoly displacements in realtime it will probably go a long way to eliminating what people actually use zbrush for, creating normal maps. Supposedly there will be videos up soon....

Mike

rendering micropolys and painting them is completely different. opengl has huge limits too, for what most 3d apps use for displaying and modifying. i wouldnt expect going past 1 mil in modo.

but id love to be proven wrong.

[Mike RB]

I so hope you get proven wrong. :) Re-reading the feature list turns up some more gems... Nice update.

Mike

[mlmiller1983]

I was expecting an update to modo 102 like modo 105 but not Modo 201 and a host of new features I wasn't expecting. Very nice!!

[MarkH]

Thanks to Luxology for the great Technology Review. :)


All the new features of modo 201 were enough to get everyone amped, but then announcing Modo for Linux and showing us the the great animation features as part of the future roadmap really set things off! I'm glad this event was less covert and more blunt about where Luxology is headed. :p

[DMack]

Whhoooa! MarkH...Did you go to the event? If so, can you tell us what was said and shown about the animation part??

[nvvm]

Crap. I JUST purchased Modo 102 last month and havn't even licensed it yet. I wonder if they will take it back and return it for Modo 201?

Christian Choi

It's cheaper to keep her ;)

[Nemoid]

Thanks to Luxology for the great Technology Review. :)


All the new features of modo 201 were enough to get everyone amped, but then announcing Modo for Linux and showing us the the great animation features as part of the future roadmap really set things off! I'm glad this event was less covert and more blunt about where Luxology is headed. :p

thats cool. animation features are coming too. can't wait and see some videos from the show.

[toonafish]

Wow I'm very impressed with the feature list of 201 !!

When, and how much ??

[Matariki]

This upgrade is much more than I had expected. Really nice. :bounce:
I guess I have to save a bit of money for the upgrade. Was a shipping date mentioned on the event?

[MarkH]

Wow I'm very impressed with the feature list of 201 !!

When, and how much ??
Q4 2005.

New users can buy modo 101 now for $695 and get 201 free.

Existing uers can pre-order modo 201 upgrade today (Brad specifically said you won't be charged until it ships) for $295

[Qexit]

Wow I'm very impressed with the feature list of 201 !!

When, and how much ??The pricing and availability are given down at the bottom of the press release but to summarise:

Availability : Q4 2005

Price : $695

Special introductory upgrade price for existing owners is $295...so now we know why they had that price drop deal recently :twisted: So if, like me, you bought into Modo a few days ago for $299 there is a $100 saving if you buy into the upgrade. No mention as to how long the offer will last though.

I wonder how exportable these new Modo generated models/objects will be as that is not mentioned in the features section ?

[StephanD]

I wonder how exportable these new Modo generated models/objects will be as that is not mentioned in the features section ?

They said that their goal is for MODO to play well with others,that can only mean something positive.Also,if one of your favorite option doesn't export,just ask for it.

I think they know much about 'being constrained in the same software' and I don't think they'll make that kind of mistake.

[Kvaalen]

Crap. I JUST purchased Modo 102 last month and havn't even licensed it yet. I wonder if they will take it back and return it for Modo 201?

Christian ChoiIf you want to pay $695 instead of the $299 I suppose you paid, I'm sure Lux would be happy to.

It would be cheaper to just get the update for $295 which will be a total of around $600 instead of a total of around $700. You basically get $100 off.

[c-g]

considering theyre completely 2 different products, one can easily handle editing of 2+ million poly models, and a whole suite of projection/stenciling/brush/2.5d alpha tools. not really. considering zb costs also almost 1/2 of modo.

Were you at the Lux event or are you assuming that Zbrush subdividing into an obscene amount of geometry is a better approach?

[webhead]

Right now, I am so glad I took advantage of the $299.00 offer Luxology ran last month; I had a feeling about what was coming, and Modo 201 looks terrific!
The UV Mapping feature looks like the answer to a prayer! I always felt UV Mapping in most programs was incredibly tedious. This looks like a much better solution. The Paint and Texture features have me all tingly as well.
Of course, I won't know how great Modo 201 is until I get my itchy little hands on it , but it looks like Luxology is really serious about creating the ultimate 3D modeler. :bounce:

[Parsec3d]

I was hopping for a 1.x upgrade ,, but all the new stuff sounds very cool it seems all
we need now is normal disp painting feature ,, only wished that those of us that got it before they had a demo and before they had a huge discount should be having at
least 50 bucks off the 299 upgrade price,, o well might be asking too much ,,

Thanks Lux ,, :)

[Dion Burgoyne]

Our test model for the new openGL speed is nearly 6 million polygons and it spins around on a decent video card at about 30-60 fps, and editing at 25 fps, and it's not done yet... You can paint onto image maps and use the image maps for displacement, so in fact you can paint displacement/normal maps, on an image. You can also bake multiple displacement maps down to a single image for export, you can also bake normal maps.

[DMack]

Just so I can guage (6 million sounds utterly amazing)...would you say an Nvidia Quadro 4 900XGL is a 'decent video card'....I know it's kind of old...

[Parsec3d]

wow the bake thing sound really goooooood,,,, hopefully there will be a way to paint dissplacemaps on the 3d view soon ,,,,

Thanks Dion

[swampthing]

impressive

[Parsec3d]

What was previewed for animation btw???

[Nemoid]

Our test model for the new openGL speed is nearly 6 million polygons and it spins around on a decent video card at about 30-60 fps, and editing at 25 fps, and it's not done yet... You can paint onto image maps and use the image maps for displacement, so in fact you can paint displacement/normal maps, on an image. You can also bake multiple displacement maps down to a single image for export, you can also bake normal maps.

wow 6 millions of poligons that is a really huge number.this is amazing. will you go for ZB - like sculpting toolset ?

[CB_3D]

What was previewed for animation btw???

I´d like to hear about that,too.

[Parsec3d]

question ,, can procedurals go along uvmaps???

[Parsec3d]

is there a render feature list?

translucency?
SSS?

[Phil Lawson]

Yes, both are in :)

[Parsec3d]

oo ok thanks ,, coz those leafs on the rendered image gave me a few doubts

[Dion Burgoyne]

I left for siggraph before I had a chance to go through too many cards, but the 6800 in a Mac and a 5700 in a PC worked nicely... Although the FireGL card worked amazingly well (although that's too be expected)

and yes, you can map procedurals to UVs

[Muad'dib]

... can anyone give me a hint as to when the "intro" price offer goes till? Is it a Sig thing only ?

[Parsec3d]

Thanks Dion ,, ,, and btw i just re-readed the feature list ,, and it seems now we can draw
cuts inside polys ??? wow!!

[Crocodilian]

an interesting presentation. . .I originally bought Modo mostly out of curiousity, but continued to use Lightwave dominantly. . .the advances in 201 might change that. One impressive thing was the realtime updating of the FPrime (sorry "iView) preview from modelling functions. That's hard to do in LW (at least currently-- LW 9 brings Modeller tools to Layout).

Realistically, Modo is shaping up as Lightwave: The Next Generation . . . and that's what it ought to have been. Its very similar to LW, but better in many subtle and not so subtle respects. But the similarity is there to see. . .the "Shader Tree" -- which is the only shader tree I've ever seen which doesn't have a nodal structure-- because it's more or less Surface Editor.

Lexus --not the car, but their archtecture-- was a great view. Clearly, functionality has been encapsulated and can be recombined in all sorts of ways to deliver new functionality. . .but its noticeable that useful things like construction histories which were beyond LW are also not implemented in Modo.

For those who attended the realtime raytracing seminar today, there was an interesting discussion of why high poly counts do not significantly slow raytrace, whereas they do slow raster algorithms.

[Sonk]

For those who attended the realtime raytracing seminar today, there was an interesting discussion of why high poly counts do not significantly slow raytrace, whereas they do slow raster algorithms.
abit OT, but are you refering to this paper:

http://graphics.cs.uni-sb.de/~woop/rpu/RPU_SIGGRAPH05.pdf (http://graphics.cs.uni-sb.de/%7Ewoop/rpu/RPU_SIGGRAPH05.pdf)

http://graphics.cs.uni-sb.de/~woop/rpu/rpu.html

?

[Nemoid]

an interesting presentation. . .I originally bought Modo mostly out of curiousity, but continued to use Lightwave dominantly. . .the advances in 201 might change that. One impressive thing was the realtime updating of the FPrime (sorry "iView) preview from modelling functions. That's hard to do in LW (at least currently-- LW 9 brings Modeller tools to Layout).

Realistically, Modo is shaping up as Lightwave: The Next Generation . . . and that's what it ought to have been. Its very similar to LW, but better in many subtle and not so subtle respects. But the similarity is there to see. . .the "Shader Tree" -- which is the only shader tree I've ever seen which doesn't have a nodal structure-- because it's more or less Surface Editor.

Lexus --not the car, but their archtecture-- was a great view. Clearly, functionality has been encapsulated and can be recombined in all sorts of ways to deliver new functionality. . .but its noticeable that useful things like construction histories which were beyond LW are also not implemented in Modo.

For those who attended the realtime raytracing seminar today, there was an interesting discussion of why high poly counts do not significantly slow raytrace, whereas they do slow raster algorithms.

well, yes.. actually what i think is that Lux started making a new Lw on steroids going beyond its limitations and giving it a whole lot of power. i agree on construction history implementation needed, to even go beyond Lw. i know its huge on memory in many occasions, but could be a useful addon, and every big 3D app out there has it , BTW with the option to turn it of if needed.
too good they put in instances and paint toolset as well as displacement painting option. looking forward to see if all this is implemented well as it happens to be in Z brush, and also, looking forward to see videos, and know more about the animation part of Modo that will make of it a complete solution.

animation part is the trickier and difficult to make, because in that field you have to face giants like Maya, XSI and MAX. i seriously hope they will get inspired mostly by apps like Motion Builder and Messiah , which are among the best solutions for character animation.

[Crocodilian]

I realized when I read Sonk's comment that there would be no reason that someone not at the Modo presentation would know why "realtime raytracing" was relevant to a Modo discussion.

The reason is iView, which is integrated into Modo 201, and which appears quite similar to FPrime, a realtime raytracer (although "near realtime" would be a better term-- it iterates). I've been a huge fan of FPrime in Lightwave, and from the first time I used it, I thought Newtek should have included it in every copy of LW -- it makes the application dramatically more useful to users. Kudos to Luxology for picking out this significant user benefit (oddly, Newtek's bundled "perk" for LW9 is Vue d'Esprit -- a great program, to be sure, but not one which integrates in the same way as FPrime . . . Luxology certainly made the better call here).

Anyway, during Brad Peebler's presentation, and on the Luxology website, much is made of the enormous polygon counts which can be rendered by Modo-- and my reference to Wednesday's presentation was intended to be helpful to those puzzled by this-- the numbers are huge, obviously. The day long presentation, which featured Philip Slussaliek of University of the Saarland and Gordon Stoll of Intel, made clear some of the interesting computational differences between raster-type rendering and raytrace. In the raster scenario (eg DirectX, OpenGL), a tremendous amount of work has to be done to determine visibility, for example. Sorting a million polyons to see which is in front of which takes time, and more importantly, bandwidth. Raytracers get this sort "for free", and it doesn't get more complex as poly counts get higher . . . and there are many other advantages. This was a very long way of saying that I think the iView feature is going to be very valuable, and a total surprise to anyone not already familiar with Fprime.

So my comment was by way of explanation of what I think is a very cool new Modo feature. I think that there is emerging a really interesting competition about where graphics acceleration gets done -- on the CPU or the GPU; I should add that "running in parallel" with the presentations on realtime graphics on the CPU, Nvidia was talking about doing general purpose computation on the graphics processor . . . but that's OT here.

[DMack]

Quote from Nemoid

" i seriously hope they will get inspired mostly by apps like Motion Builder and Messiah , which are among the best solutions for character animation."

I completely agree. I very very much hope that they have several features in common with Messiah - 1. A 'setup mode' like Messiah's, 2. Expressions as easy as Messiah's and 3. lightening fast feedbacl like Messiah's....but a better keyframe editor and dynamic parent in place functionality.

[Crocodilian]

an inference re: animation . . .the rigs shown, which were real geometry (eg "skelegon-ish") were referred to as "armatures"-- a term I've only heard used in Messiah (I mean in CG; real world sculptors use the term all the time).

Maybe a hint that Messiah is the basis of the rigging system?

[Nemoid]

well i remember very well Lux said in their old website, that they were in contact with several other companies and software houses. one of them was messiah team.
while i still think Lux and other teams will remain separate, good ideas and technologieas are always welcome. messiah has powerful bones , which don't require weightmaps to work properly and also this armature system , with the possibility to edit the rig while animating. other things would be very high animation responsiveness good ways to handle deformations, and btw good timeline features. i also like things that come from MB, like realtime animation, autorigging system, and character picker to easily find joints on the models. then, to extend even more animation, some system similar to max 's CAT would be awesome as well.

btw to implement all those things into a fluid workflow will not be easy. animation module is the most important part into a 3d app. but i guess lux team will deliver good things on this side too :)

[Qexit]

animation module is the most important part into a 3d app. Maybe, but then again maybe not :) Has it occured to anyone else that in putting together Modo 201, Luxology have come up with an unique 3D app which could have a brand new target market ? Think about it. If you are interested in producing single, static images rather than animations which 3D app do you currently go for first ? Answer: none of them as they are all cluttered up with a mass of stuff that you are not interested in and will probably never use. While you can buy standalone modelers and renderers, until now you could not get a single app that provided both these features without bundling in animation capabilities. For example, I wonder how many 'garage kit' builders would be interested in Modo 201, especially if models shipped with Modo loadable objects ? It would allow them to try out different colour schemes without worrying about getting it wrong first time on their expensive real model. People wanting to produce work for future CGSociety publications such as Expose should be more than a little bit interested too.

While it is fun to speculate on how Modo will develop in the future, it is almost as interesting to ponder about how it will be used and by whom in the near and immediate future :thumbsup:

[Nemoid]

well, sure. i never said Modo is unusable right now.It was at first greatly usable as a modeler, and now will be used as a modler, texturer, renderer especially now that it has a great and powerful rendering engine to exploit. great stills could be done that way, and there's a great market for them as well.

this being said, items like bones are listed into nexus features to be implemented. Lux also said animation will come.its in Lux roadmap for the future. so, where's the problem ? so far, we'll be able to export our models into othe applications to animate there. the possibility to import mdd files would be fantastic, to exploit the rendering engine even better.

IMO, animation still is the most important part of a 3d app. big apps are based onto their animation modules to a point that things like modelling in maya quite sucks, while animation does wonders. even modelling in XSI is good, but not comparable to modo .

Luxology made a good choice, adding every piece at a time, to make their best on every piece.
so at first modelling, then great texturing and rendering, and lastly they'll add animation, dynamics, particles. :)

Modo found its place yet in mixed pipelines in many studios and will be put in use in the same way since in big studios they usually use propietary software as well they'll probably code systems to import in modo animations to exploit its rendering engine.
they also will keep using it as a modeler, and since now also as a texturing app.

[Qexit]

I think you may have missed the main point of my message :) In coming up with Modo 201 as the next stage of Modo's evolution, Luxology have opened up a completely new potential market in addition to the existing user base. Animation is only the most important part of a 3D app....if it is being used to produce animation. XSi, Maya, Lightwave, MAX, et al are all full blown 3D animation applications. Modo is primarily a complementary application that can be used with other existing 3D animation apps. When Modo 201 is released, it will continue to perform this role....but it will also have access to a market that is currently not directly addressed by any other available 3D app, i.e. people who want to produce 3D imagery that neither requires nor involves an animation element. If it turns out that that market exists, then maybe when Modo 301 with animation capabilities is made available, Luxology could continue to sell Modo 201 to those people who only require modelling and rendering capabilities :thumbsup:

[Nemoid]

Qexit, maybe i missed the point. but an user could aquire an app wich does animation and never use it. it all depends from the cost of the app. for example : Zbrush doesn't do animation, but its great for still images, and for modelling and texturing things to be exported. but XSI foundation have animation, but its cheap as well. so users will choose the one they need. if they'll go for stills they'll choose ZB only maybe,.. but some of them could choose foundation because maybe one day he would like to try that either.

marketing wise , i think that due to nexus structure and flexibility, Lux could also make different versions of its modules : a standalone modeler, a standalone rendering engine, a standalone animation package.. only limiting the whole thing in features as needed,a nd allowing good import/export functions. so, modelling could not have animation , animation would not render, etc...

this to sell things suitable to different kinda users which could need only one module at a time: pure modellers, experts of rendering that would want to use Lux's one, etc.

i dunno the roadmap of luxology on this, BTW. there was a time where i expected different modules , with different names sold separately, but yet with the possibility to join them together into an app.
but with 201 it seems that the roaadmap is more similar to a Lw on steroids thing : a great complete app, with cool modelling tools, great rendering and texturing capabilities, and animation as well. it will be quite cheap as a whole app, even if maybe not the cheaper one in the market but the whole app will allow to make all needed for all tasks 3D and great animations.

another thing i would add is this : Lux seems to want to gather all new technologies together into an unique app, for the first time. from their behaviour they'll clearly implement all the newest things and technology advancements in the industry. this is valid for rendering at 201 release, and i think the same for texturing and disp map /normal map creation and application to low poly geometry. they'll also try to build an easy workflow on artist's fingers thinking more to ease of use and ergonomics.

why? because that was Lightwave's original project and intention. in facts right now, even with its own limitations, Lw has a nice workflow if u compare it with other complex and big apps.in Lw history development took a wrong direction at a certain point, and that's why Nt team had to recover a gap and will do with Lw 9.0
however, that same philosophy, with less errors brought by the experience Lw fathers earned into years of developing wioth Newtek , will apply to their new product. :)

[Hazmat]

Qexit,

You have made a very good observation about the possible niche for Modo 201. I'm an XSI (foundation) user, and while I'm interested in animation, rigging, particles, etc., I would really like a nice clean application that I can use for product design, architectural rendering, and general still work.

XSI is a very powerful application, and I won't steer away from it because of its power, but for the simpler stuff, I would like a different workflow. Along with the 3D painting, the points that you make about stills work is exactly why i will likely pick up Modo. I envision a workflow where I can do Architectural work in Modo, set it to render a massive piece of work for print (utilizing multiple render nodes), and then move to a free computer and work in XSI on more complex projects.

I'm sure that I'm not alone in this thinking either...

[c-g]

Lexus --not the car, but their archtecture-- was a great view.

That would have been clever if you didn't screw up the name Nexus.

[Qexit]

Qexit,

You have made a very good observation about the possible niche for Modo 201. I'm an XSI (foundation) user, and while I'm interested in animation, rigging, particles, etc., I would really like a nice clean application that I can use for product design, architectural rendering, and general still work.

XSI is a very powerful application, and I won't steer away from it because of its power, but for the simpler stuff, I would like a different workflow. Along with the 3D painting, the points that you make about stills work is exactly why i will likely pick up Modo. I envision a workflow where I can do Architectural work in Modo, set it to render a massive piece of work for print (utilizing multiple render nodes), and then move to a free computer and work in XSI on more complex projects.

I'm sure that I'm not alone in this thinking either...Thanks for confirming my line of thought Hazmat :applause: The equation '3D app = Animation' does not apply to everyone or in all circumstances.

[Yiorgz]

Thanks for confirming my line of thought Hazmat :applause: The equation '3D app = Animation' does not apply to everyone or in all circumstances.

The MODO201 model/render combo will be great for Architectural / Product pre-vis too (nice hires stills with all the radiosity frills).

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