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View Full Version : IZware releases NENDO 1.5


BoydLake
08-01-2005, 03:55 PM
The fathers of modern poly modeling are baaaaaaaack!


http://www.izware.com/news/index.htm

ThomasMahler
08-01-2005, 04:02 PM
What the...?!?

Wow, who would have guessed? So, whats about Mirai? I don't really care about Nendo, Wings has outpassed Nendo a long time ago and I don't think that Izware has updated Nendo to such a degree, so I actually don't see what Nendo would give me.

But if they worked on Mirai, updated the core of it, it's modeling set, etc... that could definitely be interesting. Don't disappoint us, Izware!

Well, it doesn't sound like they'd take Nendo too seriously themselves:

Learn and teach the basic concepts of 3D modeling...great for kids and first timers!

Uhm. I'm not so sure about that one...

BoydLake
08-01-2005, 04:05 PM
I have been told that Mirai 1.5 (or a future version) of Mirai is being prepared for release. It's been in the works for awhile, but I'm assured it is coming.

ThomasMahler
08-01-2005, 04:13 PM
The question is if the Izware guys can really pull this off. This Nendo update sounds pretty bad, actually:

http://www.izware.com/nendo/new-in-1-5.htm

Now, okay, Nendo isn't _that_ important, but Mirai is a whole different beast - And they'd have to update a hell lot to take Mirai to the next level. It's been a looong time since Mirai 1.1 has been released and many things have changed.

I hope for the best, I'd love to see Mirai again, but I'm a little sceptical...

Goon
08-01-2005, 04:36 PM
Hmmmm...this could be bad actually. Since wings3d basically ripped off nendo, then moved towards the Mirai feature set, will Bjorn be sued and wings3d dismantled?

ColinCohen
08-01-2005, 04:45 PM
You can't argue with the price ($49.)

The 3d paint system looks interesting. Having never used Nendo, is this something new? If not, any comments about it?

I wonder if they'll be at Sig.

StephanD
08-01-2005, 04:45 PM
Although this is the Siggraph time...I really didn't see that one coming. ;)

HitParader
08-01-2005, 06:02 PM
That's a strange version numbering system - the last version of Nendo I have is 1.6...from 1999 I think...

It's hard to see how this will be relevant in today's marketplace, athough the price is still great. I learned poly modeling on it back in the day but it long ago stopped being compatible with many video cards (or at least the one's I'd been using).

Best of luck to Izware...and gotta love SIGGRAPH for all the new product announcements!

JDex
08-01-2005, 06:08 PM
Unexpected without question.

thomaspecht
08-01-2005, 06:13 PM
the last version nendo was imho 1.1.6. possibly wings has surpassed it in the meantime. yet i find izware's consistent approach to user interfaces much more appealing than wings's mix of nendo, maya, whatever, all thrown together in one app. can't argue about the price of both though ;)

one cool thing about nendo was/is it's ability to record modeling sessions much like zbrush, fun to watch, definitely.

good news overall, seems like mirai is finally underway, who would have though of that?

thedaemon
08-01-2005, 06:26 PM
Bravo IZware, you show us you are still alive. Now where is my mirai, I have no need to purchase nendo, I want mirai!

rebo
08-01-2005, 06:31 PM
http://www.izware.com/nendo/new-in-1-5.htm

Wow the update looks painfully poor. I hope mirai gets a better treatment.

EDIT:: just tried the demo, it becomes unusable after 4 subdivisions on a cube, so thats approx ~ 4*4*4*4 = 1024 faces :////

MayaPT
08-01-2005, 06:41 PM
Wow the update looks painfully poor. I hope mirai gets a better treatment.
Yep... and releasing Mirai in less than a decade would be nice too... ;)

schuubars
08-01-2005, 06:47 PM
Oh man you must have a really poor and slow machine. :D

http://www.izware.com/nendo/new-in-1-5.htm

Wow the update looks painfully poor. I hope mirai gets a better treatment.

EDIT:: just tried the demo, it becomes unusable after 4 subdivisions on a cube, so thats approx ~ 4*4*4*4 = 1024 faces :////

kursad_pileksuz
08-01-2005, 06:48 PM
????? if you can sue Bjorn for that one, you can sue izware for using idea of "3d modelling" in their products, i am sure concept of 3d modelling does not belong to izware

on the other hand you are getting a modeler and 3d paint system for 49 dollars, not bad at all






Hmmmm...this could be bad actually. Since wings3d basically ripped off nendo, then moved towards the Mirai feature set, will Bjorn be sued and wings3d dismantled?

rebo
08-01-2005, 06:50 PM
Mouse_art , I dont think its my machine speed possibly some kind of conflict. Does anyone else have dramatic slowdown when manipulating with the demo at 4 subdivisions on a cube? Opengl performce is fine , i.e. rotate and tumble - The slowdown occurs when pushing verts.

schuubars
08-01-2005, 06:57 PM
No, works fine here.

But i dont really care i won't use nendo, hehe.


on the other hand you are getting a modeler and 3d paint system for 49 dollars, not bad at all

jep, woul'd say it is for starters really ok.

BigJay
08-01-2005, 07:33 PM
Hey guys.... The Demo download is 1.5 so you can try it out NOW!

A quick assessment is that this sadly is no improvement at all and is a step backward. This needs more work if they hope to grab old nendo users or even new users since for $50 more they get more robust modeler. I will explain.

I am using winXP SP2 on a 2.8Ghz P4 with hyperthreading enabled and 2GB Ram. I have a Nvidia 5600 Video card with latest drivers. So it is a pretty good machine.

First off there is nothing different menu wise. No new controls
Lets compare old and new, I still have 1.1.6 installed as I just can't toss a classic.
in 1.5 the gray of the screen is lighter. This really made no difference to me modeling and is pretty easy to see what I need to do once the grid is off.

menus are mostly the same, del key now deletes the model. still only has one undo. no way to change shortcut keys.

The new thing here is that there is an actual help system instead of just the pdf the old one opened.

Script wise there are twice as many scripts

Here is something interesting. I brought in a 3000 poly nendo model I did years ago. Rotating the screen causes stuttering in Nendo 1.1.6 and is nice and smooth in 1.5

BUT

in Nendo 1.1.6 edits are nice and smooth and interactive. In 1.5 they are jerky. I tried copy on the whole model and tried to drag it and selected a single poly and tried to move it and in both cases there is 2-3 second delay before anything moves. 1.1.6 will edit anything

I tried building the object in 1.5 just to make sure and sure enough at about 1000 polys it starts to stutter. 1.1.6.

Try this. install 1.5 and select file>Open. Pick the 1701H.NDO try to edit any point. On my system it is uneditable there is a lag for every move. In 1.1.6 I can edit it with no problem. Moving around the screen gets jerky but is good enough to get to where I need to work. I tried copying the entire ship. at around 4 ships it needed more time to think then start moving. At 8 ships it took up to 10 seconds to think before It updated any edit. But once it showed the movement it went back to moving even if a little jerky was enough work. I saved out the eight ships brought them into 1.5 and zoom and rotate is fast.

With luck Izware will see this and take a look at what went wrong. Maybe it is that the old version did one evaluation of the data then let you work, while the new one is continuely evaluating the data since it never seems to get to a point that you are allowed to work.

Goon
08-01-2005, 07:37 PM
kursad_pileksuz: what are you talking about? This isn't some general overlapping of a basic concept. Wings basically directly incorporated the manipulator less, r-click menu, mouse input methods, ui layout and scheme, etc. from izware. Not that many other softwares aren't doing this same thing, but wings is a blatant copy. I wouldn't be very surprised if the project had violated quite a few patents

Though looking at nendo it is incredibly apparent just how much more powerful wings is. God bless Bjorn and all the other devs

BigJay
08-01-2005, 07:40 PM
Here is 8 ships in nendo 1.1.6 where I edited the dish with select edge loop, move, and bevel. you can also see how dark the grey used to be.

rebo
08-01-2005, 08:04 PM
in Nendo 1.1.6 edits are nice and smooth and interactive. In 1.5 they are jerky. I tried copy on the whole model and tried to drag it and selected a single poly and tried to move it and in both cases there is 2-3 second delay before anything moves. 1.1.6 will edit anything

Yep this is exactly what i get.

thomaspecht
08-01-2005, 08:26 PM
kursad_pileksuz: what are you talking about? This isn't some general overlapping of a basic concept. Wings basically directly incorporated the manipulator less, r-click menu, mouse input methods, ui layout and scheme, etc. from izware. Not that many other softwares aren't doing this same thing, but wings is a blatant copy. I wouldn't be very surprised if the project had violated quite a few patents

Though looking at nendo it is incredibly apparent just how much more powerful wings is. God bless Bjorn and all the other devs

i remember one thread back in the old izware forum, where someone from iz hinted that they would check out what to do about wings (or some similarly vague statement) and a real storm of protest from the pro-wings front arised because of that one-liner.

i wouldn't be surprised either if they took it to the court. after all, to rip-off another package almost 1:1 that had never officially been discontinued doesn't sound like the greatest idea of all time.

TroutMaskReplica
08-01-2005, 08:37 PM
hmm. windows only. i'll stick to wings then. is reviving nendo just one guy's part time hobby?

kursad_pileksuz
08-01-2005, 09:33 PM
well if wings is taken to court, lets go after all software companies, i do not think we can categorize stealing (if that is what it is ) as small or big.

Without wings popularity of nendo may not have been remembered that much, actually wings3d is helping izware by keeping it alive, which they have not done themselves at all. instead of taking it to court, a warm thank you would be better.
And Izware actually can develope mirai to next level, if anyone wants more than wings3d they can actually purchase Mirai, in that case again wings3d would be helping them by directing people to mirai.

beside wings3d`s popularity and 0$ price, people are yet purchasing silo3d and other low price 3d modelling software, i do not think wings3d is really hurting izware.


i remember one thread back in the old izware forum, where someone from iz hinted that they would check out what to do about wings (or some similarly vague statement) and a real storm of protest from the pro-wings front arised because of that one-liner.

i wouldn't be surprised either if they took it to the court. after all, to rip-off another package almost 1:1 that had never officially been discontinued doesn't sound like the greatest idea of all time.

Laa-Yosh
08-01-2005, 09:47 PM
Wow... could this mean... ? :)

Teyon
08-01-2005, 10:58 PM
Goon, back when IZWare announced they would be releasing Mirai again, in their forums they had stated they wouldn't seek legal action against WINGS 3D. I think the reason was that the program, while based on Mirai's ideas, contained completely original code or code that was already available to the public. The only thing I recall them saying was that they asked that it be mentioned on the WINGS3D site that it was based off of Mirai and NENDO, which, I believe it says even now...

Goon
08-01-2005, 11:02 PM
ah, good to hear :D

thedaemon
08-01-2005, 11:45 PM
Good grief, lets not get our panties in a wad. I don't think izware has the time nor money to "sue" anyone at all right now. I bet all they are doing is trying to get their product out there. Give them a break, I hear its just a few guys. Which it would have to be to take this long ;)

erilaz
08-02-2005, 12:35 AM
If anything, let's hope this is a stepping stone for Mirai to get back to it's former glory.

ambient-whisper
08-02-2005, 02:10 AM
hopefully ill be able to get me a copy to create some solid morphs with.
my last copy no longer works due to the ethernet card that the license was tied to was ISA, and thats not exactly supported nowadays.

gruvsyco
08-02-2005, 02:16 AM
is there a link with some info? I followed the one at the top of this and saw no news announcement nor did I see a demo download :shrug:

eloop
08-02-2005, 03:25 AM
Not to mention the problems with Windows XP. Its funny, just when you think that there is no hope of ever seeing Mirai come back to life it comes back onto the radar, albeit faintly. No-one will ever accuse the Izware guys of being great communicators...

-Drew

hopefully ill be able to get me a copy to create some solid morphs with.
my last copy no longer works due to the ethernet card that the license was tied to was ISA, and thats not exactly supported nowadays.

Sonk
08-02-2005, 03:37 AM
Hmmmm...this could be bad actually. Since wings3d basically ripped off nendo, then moved towards the Mirai feature set, will Bjorn be sued and wings3d dismantled?

Greg Minter of IZware already said they wont sue Bjorn, so please dont even think about that. IZware releasing Nendo 1.5 is a good start, they have had rocky times in the pass. Maybe a Mirai 1.5 wont have new feature par say, but if the stuff under the hood is getting improve that would be good also.But if thats the case, just call it 1.2 .

ambient-whisper
08-02-2005, 06:50 AM
The question is if the Izware guys can really pull this off. This Nendo update sounds pretty bad, actually:

http://www.izware.com/nendo/new-in-1-5.htm

Now, okay, Nendo isn't _that_ important, but Mirai is a whole different beast - And they'd have to update a hell lot to take Mirai to the next level. It's been a looong time since Mirai 1.1 has been released and many things have changed.

I hope for the best, I'd love to see Mirai again, but I'm a little sceptical...

if they updated the modeller to import better than 1.1. ( as in, work every time ) then id buy it just for the morph tools alone.

BoydLake
08-02-2005, 07:14 AM
Honestly, all this talk of Mirai not being able to catch up at this point just shows how great a secret Mirai was/is. I kid you not, back in the day when Viewpoint was cranking out model libraries with blinding speed, their big secret that no-one knew about was that the backbone of their modeling dept was NWorld, the predecessor to Mirai.

Sure, there are a few things that are out-dated and you have to use the right open-gl compliant boards, but they are not hard to find. And as ambient-whisper said, the morph tools alone set Mirai far ahead of other packages out there. As far as raw modeling power, there's not another tool out there that really compares... and that's from a 6 year old application. Plus, for those six years, I expect new features have been added. I can't wait to see what is rolled out in the next release.

nvvm
08-02-2005, 07:51 AM
I think Nendo is just a sign to say we are here working hard, and possible generate some short term cash while they develop mirai to the fullest it can be.

beaker
08-02-2005, 10:51 AM
Another nice thing is Bart(was one of the programmers for mirai) now works for Mental Ray and he created a MR plugin for Mirai a couple years ago. So hopefully that will be integrated into it.

KayosIII
08-03-2005, 09:52 AM
As a wings3d modeller I can say that Nendo doesn't interest me a great deal. Mirai howeverlooks very interesting. Of course the usual conciderations will come into play price vs current workload. platform preferences that sort of thing

IanBlackford
08-03-2005, 12:51 PM
hi
i too am a wings3d user [top app :cool:] and with that not overly interested in nendo [especially with silo etc etc] but was v.excited to hear anything coming from the IZware guys, even better for them to come back from the dead on my birthday :D.
i hope they release some details of a future release of mirai soon :cool:. and i obviously agree with your comments KayosIII re: price etc
i await further news :)
regards
monsieurblack

SoulVector
08-03-2005, 02:21 PM
I downloaded the Tryout version of Nendo and i must say that it feels a bit weird to use it after using Wings after all this time. It actually feels like a commercial version of wings :) They should consider hiring Björn since he is obviously a master of reversed engineering and would probably fit the development team. The painting is really intuitive and a breeze so for wings user looking for a cheap paint solution 49$ is nada!

themint100
08-03-2005, 08:03 PM
Hi all,

Thanks for all the feedback, both positive and negative. Just wanted to clear up a few things:

1) Yes, the last released version was 1.1.6, and we decided to up the rev. on this to 1.5 since we're really a different company now (although some of the same people). You can see what was changed on the website.

2) We decided to make Nendo available again because we *still* were getting requests every week asking us "How Do I Buy?."

3) Our goal was not to set the modeling world on fire with the re-release, but to make it availble for those who wanted a light package with a decent set of features...poly modeling, basic 3D paint, and decent export (.obj, .x, .3ds, and .vrml).

4) I guess this counts as a "business decision." I think the members of a forum like this one represent higher end of the spectrum, while Nendo is intended for those at the other end. We do need to make a living, after all. :)

5) We're not looking to beat up or bully wings3D...Bjorn and the community wanted the functionality of Nendo at a time when it wasn't available, and wings3D was born. It's evolved into its own package.

6) As Boyd pointed out...hey, you get a polygonal modeler and 3D paint program for $49. As we said when Nendo was first released, we think that's a reasonable deal.

Regarding Mirai & Geometry, I can only recommend keeping an eye on our website, as we want to make announcements from one place.

Thanks all,

Greg Minter
Izware

IanBlackford
08-03-2005, 10:34 PM
hi there greg :)
thanks for stopping on by to explain things, much appreciated.
as you know i've been eagerly awaiting any news from yourself for quite some time now [with all the banter over on your forums :) [shame the topics didn't manage to stay as focused as they should eh?]] and was more than happy to hear about the re-release of nendo, although, as mentioned i don't feel it is particularly aimed at myself but i fully understand your reasonings for its release. a wise move.
i will resume my automatic refreshing of your site with immediate effect ;)
j/k :p
just try not to keep us all waiting for such a long time this time 'round :D
again, thanks for the info
regards
monsieurblack

rebo
08-03-2005, 10:48 PM
Good luck with your other products, really good to see you listening to comments!

KayosIII
08-07-2005, 01:57 PM
Yeah $49 for 3D paint does look good. Is there any way to run it under Linux ??? Wine (et al)?? Also does it have full pen tablet support...

Nichod
08-08-2005, 05:59 AM
Yeah Mirai was incredible. Could have been one of the top group if it had stuck around.


i wouldn't be surprised either if they took it to the court. after all, to rip-off another package almost 1:1 that had never officially been discontinued doesn't sound like the greatest idea of all time.


I do agree that Wings kind of steps on Nendo, if you compare the two, especially the older versions of Wings its almost a complete copy.

Sonk
08-11-2005, 10:20 AM
Greg,

thanks for posting, i cant wait to see Mirai again, if not this year, next year! Also wondering if your stance has change with regards to Collada?

I think Bay's love for Mirai is rubbing off on people, in Valve software:

http://www.valvesoftware.com/jobs.html

Laa-Yosh
08-11-2005, 12:37 PM
Bay has been recruiting people for a project with Valve a few months ago...

StephanD
08-11-2005, 12:53 PM
Yeah $49 for 3D paint does look good. Is there any way to run it under Linux ??? Wine (et al)?? Also does it have full pen tablet support...

Wine didn't work for me,all I got was the install BG and when I tried to recall my console I couldn't see it,luckily,I could ctrl-c to shut wine off.

Maybe is it the XP optimizations(as wine will run nt,95,98 and 2000 softs afaik) or maybe has it just never worked on wine...That said,it's happened to me that after updating to the latest unstable version,some softwares just wouldn't run anymore.

Gotta deal with it,downgrade or use Windows :)

ZATZAi
08-13-2005, 05:33 PM
Well, I am very excitied to to see some life from IZware. I wasn't around for Nendo and Mirai the first time, and gravitated to modelling in Wings from Maya (Just so much faster for me). I am really looking forward to a Mirai release, any release really, especially if it has some nice render tie-ins, like Mental Ray, that would be awesome.

KayosIII
08-15-2005, 09:27 AM
I will keep looking... Blender is almost there - It just needs Wacom support. Amazon paint looks fabulous but I bet it costs a pretty penny.

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