Cinema 4D easy to learn compared to others?

[pixeldoggy]

I used to work with both Maya and Cinema, but it's strictly Cinema for me now, especially with the new Version 8. The Maya interface has become too cluttered over time, and while it has a ton of features, it doesn't do me no good if I can't remember how to access them.
Maya might be great if you are a studio and can afford a TD to set it up for your individual preferences, but I'd like to concentrate on the creative process more than on the software, and for that Cinema is just fine. It can do about 90% of what Maya can do, some of it better and faster. Don't know how 3D Max compares, but I hope this will help you for now.

[DeathCarrot]

Cinema 4D was the first real 3D package I ever got, apart from Simply 3D :shrug: which i got free with a cover disc on some magazine, and I wouldnt change it for anything, Ive tried maya, 3ds max, xsi and lightwave, I would have to say Cinema is my favorite. I would defeneatly recommend C4D as yes i feel it is very easy to learn and the interface is very flexible...
But that's just my opinion, and I am biased towards c4d :D :shrug:

[Phasmatis]

I’ve been into 3d for about 4 years now and for 3 and half of those years I used 3dsmax, so I've been using Cinema for 6 months and I have created much superior work in cinema than I ever did in max, something about it make it very easy to work with. There are also a lot of cost benefits too, not only is cinema extremely cheap but you don't have to pay out a load more for renderers, even the plugins are cheap compared to most other packages, infact most of my favourite plugins are free to download.

So to sum up, Yes, in my opinion cinema is a lot easier to learn than other packages.

One more thing, the cinema community is extremely helpful if you get stuck with something, post here and I'm sure someone can help. :)

[pit]

Well, you´ll still have a steep learning curve with Cinema - but the interface and the resulting workflow is really unmatched by the others, so yes, it is in a way easier. Now, as mentioned, with Release 8 you really get a package that can compete with the others. (Got an e-mail from Alias/Wavefront this morning telling me they´ve got an special Maya offer for Cinema 4D users. R 8 scared them - I guess!!)
I´ve worked with LW and Max and tried the Maya PLE version - and they are all great packages, so I guess the best advice would be: try out the demos for yourself and decide which suits you and your needs best. For tutorials: try a google search: cinema 4d+tutorials.

cheers

[ThirdEye]

What I like about Cinema 4D:

- stability: the program has always been stable as a rock. I often remember a time when Win 98 crashed and made crash ALL other opened programs but not C4D.

- speed: this is the fastest raytracer on the planet and it doesn't require a great hardware. The other programs are useless if you don't have a great computer.

- ease of use: great GUI (completely customizable), great access to tools. It's surely the 3d program with the best workflow on the market.

- youngness: C4D is a young software and it surely will grow, I don't think the other programs are so good written to let the programmers introduce new features with speed and stability.

- great render quality: GI, raytrace, NPR, a great set of procedural shaders (SLA)...

[AdamT]

I think the general consensus is that Cinema has a far shorter learning curve than the other apps you mentioned. I started out using trueSpace (about 4 yrs.) and moved to Cinema about a year ago. Cinema was *really* easy to pick up. I was deciding between Cinema, Lightwave, and EIU, and I tried all the demos pretty extensively. With Cinema, I was able to do quite a bit without even looking at the manual or tutorials. With EIU, I definitely needed the manuals to get started, and then it was sort of confusing. And with LW, even *with* the manuals I just could not get off first base. Horrible! (Note: a lot of people love LW and have no problems with its interface).

Of course, a short learning curve is only important if the application ultimately provides enough power to satisfy your needs. What are your needs?

[FrankW]

I started out with Truespace (2 years) and later moved to 3DS Max 1 and later V2 (2 years), which I was happy with at that time. Then I got introduced to C4D XL5 and use it ever since! It took me a while to switch my "3DS way of work" to C4D, but I never want to go back. C4D is very intuitive and fun to work with. It NEVER crashes and is fast as lightning.

And the support from the company and at the newsgroups is first class!

[flingster]

cinema = speed + stability
in terms of reference material i tend to agree with you....there certainly doesn't seem to be the same quantity of third party literature available as there is for other software....but, very importantly the documentation shipped with c4d is very good...along with supplied tutorials. The interface in very intuitive, uncluttered and easily adapted by the user....workflow is very good.

I think you also need to consider your use more?
The increasingly competitive marketplace now means you can take a look at demo's for most of the major software. I would suggest you take a look at some of these demos then compare them yourself....you may surprise yourself and see how easy c4d is to learn in comparision with the rest of the pack. Lastly don't let any salesman tell you cinema can't do what the rest can do...cos that would be rubbish.

[CosmicBear]

each package has it's good or bad sides for sure. i'm sure, if you post the same question in one of the other forums, you will get the same answers.

i read an article recently about lightwave, written by someone, who's been working in C4D before. he said, that it takes one to two years to really get the hang of lightwave.

it took me about 9 month to produce my first 'showable' picture in C4D.

in the end, it really depends on what you want to do. i'm working with a combination of cinema and animation:master, but just decided to move on to lightwave to have the combination of both in one paket...

you get great books on all the software, which makes it easier to get the foot in the door...

[pit]

"that it takes one to two years to really get the hang of lightwave. "


:shame:

Sorry to be correcting you, but this was the statement (Digital Production4/02):
"according to my experience, it will take 1 to 2 years to really master one of the major 3D programs"

Not LightWave specific.

Well, I think the statement is ok.

[ThirdEye]

"i'm working with a combination of cinema and animation:master, but just decided to move on to lightwave to have the combination of both in one paket..."

I don't think C4D is less powerful than LW. The only LW thing I would like to have is the powerful n-gons modeler. C4D R8 rocks!

[AdamT]

Seems like an odd time/reason to switch to LW, seeing as how R8 just matched or bettered LW's animation toolset with Mocca, Cappucino, and Xpresso. And further distanced itself from LW with all the workflow enhancements. If R8's tools still aren't enough, you can also add Messiah:Animate and really have the best of both worlds (assuming pmg ever gets the m:a/C4D connection shaken out). Not that there's anything wrong with LW.... :p

[pit]

U beat me to it AdamT! Was just about to post the same statement - CosmicBear check out Release 8 before you move any further - u won´t regret it!!

[robertkist]

I use Maya, 3DS Max and Cinema and with Cinema I got good results in the shortest time. The interface and workflow is also one thing that makes working in C4D so much more fun than working in Maya or 3DS Max.
Maya sure is more powerful than C4D but its not as easy to use. And both Maya and 3DS Max aren't as stable as C4D. Both managed to crash my PC when I tried to use certain features.

I picked up many modeling techniques when working with Max and now apply them in Cinema 4D, so if you already know the basics of 3D it won't matter that much how many books there are for C4D.
I want to recommend the books of "Arndt von Koenigsmarck" though, because they take you a little farther than the tutorials that ship with C4D. He wrote 2 books, one about C4D 6 and one about C4D 7, where many concepts should still apply in version 8. Both books should be available in English.
Other than that, I can just recommend general 3D books, like Digital Lighting and Rendering or the Character Animation books from New Ryders.

[flingster]

I dont think its application specific really as more steep learning curve to 3d in general. I would also recommend the digital lighting and rendering and the other in the new riders series digital texturing...both very good books.

[CosmicBear]

sorry, haven't had the time recently to be online alot, so couldn't react to it right away :)

1. @pit: okay, sorry, i quoted the DP-statement wrong. (are you the one, who wrote the article? :) )

2. i'm aware of how powerful C4D R8 is and know of all the improvements. i'm playing with the demo these days and would actually have been very happy if the program would have been available three month ago. it would have helped me alot with my graduation-project. i'll finish it with 7.3 as i am too far in production to be able to switch to another version by now. the animation is done by now, so mocca wouldn't help me with it anymore...

my reason to switch to lightwave has nothing to do with 'program x being more powerful than program y'. but i've been in contact with a couple of studios and companies in england (mainly game-companies) and most of them said the following

'we really do like your style of design and your animation. so what software do you use?'
'cinema and animation:master'
'hmmmm, what about maya, 3D studio max or lightwave?'
'nope, sorry, never worked with 3D max or lightwave'
'well, thank you for coming to england. don't call us, we call you'
(happend four times now)

that's the reason, why i am changing programs. again, no doubts about the power of cinema, but what's the use, if i'm a pro in cinema but can't get a job, cuz it's not used on a professional base? i know lots of architects, who use it, but that's not what i want to do. i haven't spend five years in college to end up doing something i don't wanna do :)
it's a fact, that cinema has not reached most of the professional animation-studios.


about the literature for cinema 4D:
it always depends on what you are looking for. the manuals coming with cinema are great, no question about it.
if you are looking for a certain subject, you probably will never find THAT one book, which explains it all.
i have been really disappointed by the arndt-von-königsmarck-books, but that's my personal oppinion. these books might give beginners a good overview of the program, but they are not usable on a professional base.
most of the models in it are not even close to a professional model, nor are the books usable as a reference for own projects.
example: the woman, that is build in the V6-book. not only is the model not animatable (is that correct english?) nor does it have the right proportions of a human being.
i don't mean to attack mr. königsmarck on a personal level, but i kind of get the impression, that 3D is more of a hobby for him than a real-life-job.
i am impressed by the last work he has done (the transelucent shader looks fantastic!)

within the last 12 month i've spent about 600 US-$ on books about animation and 3D-modelling and can only say, that there are lots of book out on the market, who cover one aspect of things. There is not the ultimate book available, but if you keep looking you’ll get solutions for everything. I found maya and lightwave-books pretty easy to ‚convert’ to cinema...

[ThirdEye]

It' sad but you're right, Cinema 4D is not famous and is not diffused in pro studios. Its modeling features are probably the worst (no nurbs, no n-gons, only a few modeling tools), the animation has been crappy for years (I hope mocca will start a new era), there isn't the plethora of 3d party plugins that comes with all other software (maybe because of the SDK?) and it lacks a lot of things (cloth dynamics, HDRI and 3s to mention some...). The best C4D features are stability, ease of use, rendering speed and a great workflow, that are certainly great features. But studios around the world need power, power and power in the application they use, and they especially want a software that could be integrated with their custom plugins. :shrug:

[AdamT]

I think Cinema will start showing up in pro studios with increasing frequency when R8 is released--not that that helps you now.

Regarding Arndt's books, I couldn't disagree more. I thought his v7 book (which is an update of the v6 book, I think) was fantastic. It provides invaluable information about Cinema's radiosity renderning, multipass rendering, COFFEE expressions, deformers, SLA materials, etc., etc.

Also, when considering his contributions, consider that v7's modeling tools would be truly pathetic without Arndt's Edge Extrude and Cutter plugins, and his vReel Morph plugin is still the best morphing system for Cinema (including R8's new tools).

[pit]

@ CosmicBear: No - I didn´t write the article :shrug:, but I read it ;)
I do understand why u want make the shift to LW - it´s a very powerful application and well, let´s face it : other than C4D, it´s been out there in the studios/industry for quite a while and for good reason!! I´ve had the chance to work with LW as a freelancer (do not have LW :annoyed: $$$) and the modeling tools are great!! Personally, I´m very pleased with Release 8 and it suits my needs to a very large degree ( I´d still like to see Nurbs and some other modeling stuff in the next release, but as I think Maxons coders have done a brilliant job!) The chances that studios will utilise C4D more are better than ever (- if it´s possible to adopt it into an exsisting pipeline). If games are what u want to do, there´s no way around getting deep into Maya, Max or LW.

Cya

[Martin Kay]

It wasn't so long ago that c4d was regarded as a bit of a joke, especially in the Vs 5 days, however if you were on a Mac it came in very useful as a speedy raytracer to export mesh to and an alternative to Electric Image which wasn't so hot pre 2.8 days.
Cinema has come a long way in a few years, but if you want to go into the games industry you really need to learn Max. Those in the fx industry tend to use all the most expensive apps and not just one of them but a combination of everything that may have some use, including all the lesser 'known' apps like c4d, form Z, and rhino. I think c4d will inevitably continue to expand and eventually get its own nurbs module. It certainly has the best gui I've used and its quick to learn, probably because and especially because in the earlier days it tended towards simplicity. Now all the various bits of c4d are gradually all having more and more features and controls piled on. I would guess that without doubt c4d has a good future, where quite a few of the other apps out there, even the well known ones, now, could very easily dissappear....

[CosmicBear]

well, it's not nessessarily (right spelling? i'll never learn this word!) games for me. but i do want to work a. in england (personal choice :) ) and b. in animation. i've been in contact with some companies over there, and only one animation-company was using C4D besides LW and Maya.

i think, it's always good to offer a wide range of programs that you can work with. i won't give up cinema for good. i like the modelling-tools alot.

i've been playing around with LW in the last two weeks. some things are really confusing to me (shortcuts!!!!!!), while some of the modelling tools are fantastic! it will probably take some time for me to get satisfying results, but coming from animation:master, i'm kinda used to some of the methods...

in the end, it's the artist that counts, not the software, i guess

[Martin Kay]

If I was starting out as a young artist wishing to go into the industry I'd go for Maya, XSI, Lightwave or Max and in that order. You can get the free Maya version to learn and in any case Maya Complete is more or less in the same price bracket as c4d now.
True you can learn the principals of 3d in almost any package but the studio you end up working for will expect you to be familiar with an industry standard app. You wont learn any 3d app overnight, even c4d, so I'd pick up a copy of Maya now and get cracking...

[CosmicBear]

i've been working with maya for about a year now, but all this is 'on hold' right now as i am in the middle of my graduation-project.

i was thinking of using maya for it, but as i am doing it together with a friend, who's not familiar with maya at all and we needed a fast renderer, it was cinema, that came to mind.
both of us has been working with cinema since release 4.X

i can't start to learn max as i am on a mac and not willing (or able) to buy another computer.

i got one really nice respond to my applications: one studio said (before they had seen my stuff) we don't care what software you're using. if we like your stuff, you'll learn the software...

[AdamT]

3D World has been running a series on getting a job in 3D. In the current issue they discuss the distinctions between different areas, like games, web, TV, Movies, etc. If I remember right, they said that games companies tend to want knowledge of a specific application, whereas studios doing motion picture work place much more emphasis on artistic/creative ability and don't care too much about specific apps. TV is somewhere in between, but closer to the games company in terms of wanting application-specific know-how.

Probably more important than knowledge of a specific application is traditional art/animation credentials.

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