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tjbeseda
10-28-2002, 11:31 PM
i am trying a simple animation in c4d of a bouncing ball [i am fairly new here]. i cant seem to get my timing right. when the ball lands and squashes from the impact it takes too long in relation to the ball's air time. any tips as to how animators achieve such great timing? thanks a lot.

Rogue
10-29-2002, 05:00 AM
That's a tough question to answer without seeing the work. Timing is everything in animation. And sometimes it is not obvious what is wrong, but you know it isn't right. About the only thing I can say is watch something similar to what your doing. If you have the capability to watch it one frame at a time, the better. Also, experiment with timings and generate previews to see what the results are. I tell you, I spend more timing generating previews than I do animating. As you become more and more comfortable with certain aspects, you'll find they almost become second nature and you'll get the core of what you're animating down quickly. After that, it is just tweaking.

I've been in that position before. The only way out for me was just experimenting. Sometimes it would take a long time to get it right, but I learned something from it everytime.

Sorry to not be more definative, but that's the best I can give with the available info. :)

Jinxo
10-29-2002, 05:55 AM
Ok. If you want an easy answer, there is none. It will take time and experimentation.

Assuming we're talking about comical animation, my main source of inspiration has always been Looney Tunes. They're a masterpiece. C.Jones would do the keyframes, others would fill in the gaps, and they'd end up with a work of art. I'm 26, and whenever I catch Bugs or Daffy on the tube I turn 12 again :) . As a side effect, I may still almost never get any comical animation effect right off the starting line, but I can usually pinpoint the timing misfires pretty quickly.


cheers
Alex

Frinsklen
10-29-2002, 07:15 PM
yeah, not an easy question...
I agree with Rogue, most of us have been in that position before.

The bouncing ball is not as easy as it looks. It is one of those animations in which you have to understand every frame.
Every animation book has its bouncing ball example, check it out if you have one. If not, click here (http://www.freetoon.com). ;)
Once you've succeeded, I'd suggest to keep animating bouncing balls, with different sizes, materials and weights.


Good luck.

tjbeseda
10-29-2002, 10:52 PM
thanks a lot for the advice, i t has helped a great deal. i suppose it will take experience, experimenting and lengthening my daily dose of chuck jones, tex avery, and cartoon network :drool:. thanks again!

Grayscale
10-30-2002, 01:16 AM
I agree with both Rogue and Frinsklen. I have a trouble with timing myself sometimes. I used to have things go WAY too slow..now I tend to make them go alittle faster then they should. It just comes with practice and having some good reference material.

These guys know what they are talking about..they've given me some good advice, and I whole heartidly agree with them. Practice Practice Practice.

If you want...try doing something and posting it up here. That way we can see what it is that you might have a timing problem on. Trust me..the more sets of eyes that see it...the more that will be caught. Hope to see some stuff soon.

tjbeseda
10-30-2002, 02:04 AM
thanks a lot for the input; here is the animation i have been working on. i wish i could show you the horrible animation i had before i started this thread and got feedback. it still does not look real or "crisp" enough.

a simple character i call BLiP (http:swishcenter.virtualave.net/blip_hop.mov)

kinda like this guy -> :bounce:

eh?

Rogue
10-30-2002, 04:22 AM
Ok, now we can help out.

1. It's too slow. Should be faster. Maybe even twice as fast.

2. The ball needs to slow to a stop going up, and accelerate from a stop when coming down. The ball does indeed stop, but only for a brief instant. You won't see the ball stopped, just that it eases into and out of that position. At the moment, it rises with the same velocity without slowing down and then changes direction instantly and goes down the same velocity. All programs have some method of tension or ease ins/outs. The curve for the y axis should look something like a bell. There's more to this, but this will get you in the park.

3. The ball will squash on the y axis and stretch on the x and z axes when it hits the ground. It will stretch on the y and squash on the x and z while it's going up and coming down (mid way of travel). It will be perfectly round at the top of it's motion. Watch this: :bounce: That's only a few frames, but the important parts are there and it's totally readable. Also notice that you see the ball at the top of it's motion more that you see it anywhere is (relates to number 2)

Hope this helps you out. Post your revision.

Frinsklen
10-30-2002, 12:29 PM
Yes, it's too slow, but I don't think that's the main problem.

The ball should squash until it has touched the ground.
Your ball doesn't stretch when it's in the air.
Don't be afraid to exaggerate the parameters.
Does your program allow you to work with animation curves? If so, you might want to "draw" the curve and check the result.
Forget about the eyes, nose and landscape for the moment... they don't help much.
I think I can't add anything else to what Rogue said.

Just watch these guys again and again... and again...

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

The image below it's from the LINK (http://www.freetoon.com) I gave you yesterday

bentllama
11-01-2002, 01:59 AM
RECOMMENDED READING:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0240517148/qid=1036116003/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_0_1/026-8028143-3207657

Timing For Animators

Raptor235
11-01-2002, 02:25 AM
Allthough I'm still no master of animation, I keep wishing though everytime I see a shooting star, I think a good practice is to step away from your work and take a look at it with a fresh eye you want a nice smooth motion to your eye you dont want anything to stand out if it does then you're doing something wrong. And I totally agree with these other guys about making it fast just because your model looks good doesn't meen you have the right to put the whole world into slow motion, god when I look at my really old animations it seems like they're filmed on the moon or something I'm sure everyone feels that way. That's my piece of advice.

tjbeseda
11-01-2002, 10:25 PM
thanks a lot for the comments. i have been away but i will start working on it again. i think i will simplify the model tp just a ball and try to perfect that first. also, i checked and my local library actually has the book, thanks a lot bentllama. anyway..ill post an update soon just so i can get a feel for at least this animation :) thanks!

Rogue
11-02-2002, 03:24 AM
Originally posted by bentllama
RECOMMENDED READING:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0240517148/qid=1036116003/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_0_1/026-8028143-3207657

Timing For Animators
Thanks for that link bentllama! I have never seen that book before. It has a Feb 2002 date on it, so it's been around for a bit, but this is the first time I've seen it. Thanks!! It'll be on the away soon!

bentllama
11-02-2002, 05:11 AM
Rogue... that book has been around forever...it caters to new animators and helps wet the memory of experienced ones too... and it comes from a great pioneer in the 2D industry... John Halas...

...look him up in your animation history books... :)

[you know some 3d animators take 2d knowledge for granted....tsk tsk tsk :) ...oh what they are missing :)]

edit: oh and as far as i know, i have only been able to order that book from amazon UK...but you never know, it could be over here too...I might actually buy this re-issue since my book has beent hrough years of school and work and this knew version includes a foreward from Lasseter...

edit 2: i think the re-issue is available in north america now too...it was out of print here for quite awhile...

Grayscale
11-02-2002, 06:12 AM
bentllama...thanks for that link. I'll be adding this book to my collection.

Rogue
11-02-2002, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by bentllama
Rogue... that book has been around forever...it caters to new animators and helps wet the memory of experienced ones too... and it comes from a great pioneer in the 2D industry... John Halas...

...look him up in your animation history books... :)

[you know some 3d animators take 2d knowledge for granted....tsk tsk tsk :) ...oh what they are missing :)]

edit: oh and as far as i know, i have only been able to order that book from amazon UK...but you never know, it could be over here too...I might actually buy this re-issue since my book has beent hrough years of school and work and this knew version includes a foreward from Lasseter...

edit 2: i think the re-issue is available in north america now too...it was out of print here for quite awhile...
Ohhh. I checked, the Feb 2002 is the reissue date, the original hardcopy is 1981. Still, I've never seen it, and if it's recommended reading, I'll pick it up.

I don't have any animation history books. Didn't go to school for animation. I went to school for Physics, afterwards, finding a love for animation. Yeah, I'm a late bloomer. I have heard the name John Halas, but wasn't sure who he was so I asked google and found that. So that's John Halas....pretty nice resume, eh? :)

Again, thanks for the link and the quick history lesson.

BTW, I entered the 10 second club this month. I've been wanting to for a while now, but this month seemed like a good a time as any. :) Naw, I don't expect to win, but the competition should be fun! I'm pretty excited about it. I saw bentllama in the list...you doing one for this month?

'Replicants are like any other machine.......'

bentllama
11-02-2002, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by Rogue
BTW, I entered the 10 second club this month. I've been wanting to for a while now, but this month seemed like a good a time as any. :) Naw, I don't expect to win, but the competition should be fun! I'm pretty excited about it. I saw bentllama in the list...you doing one for this month?

We shall see...


INSERT SHAMELESS PLUG HERE:

BUT DO NOT FORGET ABOUT CGTALK'S NEW ANIMATION CHALLENGE! SET TO START THIS MONTH!

Rogue
11-02-2002, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by bentllama
We shall see...


INSERT SHAMELESS PLUG HERE:

BUT DO NOT FORGET ABOUT CGTALK'S NEW ANIMATION CHALLENGE! SET TO START THIS MONTH!


Uhmmm, what animation challenge? I visit hear often, and so do my work peers, and this is the first I've heard of it. I wouldn't call that a shameless plug....

EDIT: When did that get in there?!?!

Frinsklen
11-02-2002, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by bentllama

BUT DO NOT FORGET ABOUT CGTALK'S NEW ANIMATION CHALLENGE! SET TO START THIS MONTH!

What????????

bentllama
11-02-2002, 12:40 PM
look at the titles of the new challenge forums... :) doh! :)

http://www.cgtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=65

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