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Werner
10-28-2002, 01:31 PM
Do anyone know of a plugin, that will allow you to move points along an edge?

Here is an image of what I want...

oxygen_77
10-28-2002, 03:13 PM
in your example it seems like you could simply use the knife or bandsaw tool to create a line of points where you need and then remove the points where you don't. Maybe I just don't really understand what you want though... can you be more specific?

Werner
10-28-2002, 03:34 PM
I don't want to creat extra points or geometry...I would like to move the selected points along the edges. Think about it...you select the points, you would like to move, then run the plugin and drag your mouse to the right or left to move along the angle of the edges.
At the moment you can only constrain point movement to the x, y or z axis.

maybe this image will help

oxygen_77
10-28-2002, 03:38 PM
I haven't tried this plugin personally so I can't say if it's what you want, but maybe this will do that.

The plugin is called PointNormalMove and can be downloaded here:

http://www.daz3d.com/pages/dp/development/developright.html

I hope this helps.

ub52
10-28-2002, 03:39 PM
There is a plugin called Stretch Point which will do this. You select 2 points then activate the plugin and you will be able to move the first point along the edge defined by the selection. Right clicking sets the new point location. Here is a link to the plugin.

http://www.vfxengine.com/dtt/software/

ub52
10-28-2002, 03:44 PM
I should also mention you can have more than one pair of points selected before activating the plugin. Each pair of points will display handles showing the movable point. You can drag them individually with mouse the right click to set their new positions. Cool plugin! I use it all the time.

- ub52

Werner
10-28-2002, 03:53 PM
I think someone should create a little plugin like this. Just imagine using bandsaw, then selecting some of the points and moving along the edges, to get more detail like this

ub52
10-28-2002, 03:54 PM
There is also another plugin I find very useful when working on subd's. It's called ym_EditCurvePosition. You can find it here:

http://www.dproject.com/lw_plus_e.htm


You select 3 or more points and the plugin lets you slide any point between the first and last selected along a curve that passes through all the points.

- ub52

Werner
10-28-2002, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by ub52
I should also mention you can have more than one pair of points selected before activating the plugin. Each pair of points will display handles showing the movable point. You can drag them individually with mouse the right click to set their new positions. Cool plugin! I use it all the time.

- ub52

oops, I did not see your post. It looks like this one will do the trick.

I'll have a look and come back.

whattawa
10-28-2002, 10:47 PM
Actually, someone was close saying you could use point normal move from DAZ. You can actually use Segment Scale from DAZ. Same site, different plugin. It allows you to move points along an edge. Not too bad.

whattawa
10-28-2002, 10:51 PM
That stretch point plugin is funny to me. We had our programmer making a plugin (Segment Scale) to do that exact thing and we put it up for download about a week before Stretch Point went up. If we had known someone else was making one, we wouldn't have bothered. They both do pretty much the same thing, though I'm biased towards the one that we released. :)

Have you guys had good success with the stretch point plugin?

ub52
10-28-2002, 11:17 PM
whattawa: Funny you should say that as I feel the same way about Segment Scale. The Segment Scale plugin seem to operate very differently from Stretch Point. With Segment Scale 2 selected points are scale closer or farther from each other along the line defined by the two points. Both points move. Stretch Point only moves one point along the defined edge and seems more controlable.

Here is a wish of mine: A pluging which gives similar point control to what is available in Animation Master. In a perspective view you can constrain a points movement to the X,Y, or Z axis by holding the 1,2, or 3 key down while you drag the point. You can also constrain its movement to the intersecting splines by holding the 4 or 5 keys while draging, and holding the 6 key will constrain movement to the points normal. I realize I can probaby find plugins out there to give me this but I'd like to see it in one plug instead of needing 3 or 4 different ones. Ideally it should be part of the LW interface functionality.

My 2 cents.

- ub52

whattawa
10-28-2002, 11:44 PM
"With Segment Scale 2 selected points are scale closer or farther from each other along the line defined by the two points. Both points move."

That couldn't be farther from the truth.

If you look at the tutorial on the website, you have 3 choices for how you will scale the points. By default it scales all points to the middle, but if you look at the numeric panel, you will see you have options. You can change it so side1 moves towards side2, side2 moves to side1, or both sides move to each other. It remembers what you picked last as long as you haven't closed lightwave. (which is changing as soon as we release the newest version which writes a pref file) Also, you can move one way, right click, and then change your movement options without dropping the tool. You have two different ways to do your selections to fit your own modelling/selecting style as well. I hope that helps a bit.

So I don't sound like I'm upset that some might not like our plugin, I just want to say I don't care which tool people use. Ultimately what matters is the user is comfortable and can work quickly. Most good plugin concepts have multiple versions out there that work a little differently, which is very good for all of us. I'm sorry that I didn't include adequate documentation with Segment Scale and other plugins on our site. It's always sad to know a tool isn't being used to it's potential because someone involved in the creation process was a slacker :)

Oh, and I couldn't agree with you more that we need a faster and easier way to work in perspective view. I've never used animation master, but that sort of setup hard-coded would be the best!

Psyhke
10-29-2002, 12:04 AM
It pays to check out the Numeric panel, I guess. That's some cool stuff.

@Werner: I can reproduce your animated GIF perfectly with DAZ's SegmentScale. Even has an option for how to handle your point selection order.

whattawa
10-29-2002, 12:21 AM
I would love to be able to select some points and be able to move them along two different edges like you were showing. If Newtek ever puts edges into Lightwave, we should be able to do that. If it's not hard-coded, a developer should be able to do something like that fairly easily with edges supported. As it stands, you have to run segment scale twice. Because there are no edges you have to define them. Not the end of the world, but essentially only a work-around for what could be a nice feature and work-arounds are slower by nature.

KillMe
10-29-2002, 12:29 AM
ok i had segment scale installed fora while now but never got around to testing it until now while it does do exactly as advertised would be nice if the point slection wasn't so fussy - dont know how you could make it so you could jsut lasso the points but would have been nice perhaps if you only selected the ones that you wanted to move and then you could have the axis selected based on which way you moved your mouse first or in the numeric panel

whattawa
10-29-2002, 12:35 AM
We considered making it easier to use so that you only had to select edges, but they take too long to create when you run the plugin. I will talk to our programmer about your suggestion, but the biggest obstacle is that the user has to define the edges, they can't just randomly be picked.

I have found the easiest method for me is to select them in the wrap-around order instead of in pairs. That way I can just drag the mouse along instead of clicking multiple times. I have a loud mouse, so I like to avoid clicking as much as possible! :)

KillMe
10-29-2002, 12:43 AM
just so you know i think this is a great plug in - had i know what it was i would have used it before now - i jsut love getting free stuff so i tend to download things and not even remember to install them for quite some time

oh jsut messing around with the other one point normals move this is great finally can make a toriod fatter or thinner works great the little blue edge lines get abit confused though but it works brilliantly great stuff

i would say you could be charging for thiese plugs but i dont want to give you ideas =)

ub52
10-29-2002, 03:25 AM
"With Segment Scale 2 selected points are scale closer or farther from each other along the line defined by the two points. Both points move."

That couldn't be farther from the truth.

If you look at the tutorial on the website, you have 3 choices for how you will scale the points. By default it scales all points to the middle, but if you look at the numeric panel, you will see you have options. You can change it so side1 moves towards side2, side2 moves to side1, or both sides move to each other.

My apologies whattawa. I did not mean to imply that Segment Scale was inferior. I will certainly try to make sure my understanding is more complete berfore making statements about how a plugin behaves. Being an adult male pre gen-x I suffer terribly from an aversion to RTM, and so you don't think I look a gift horse in the mouth, let me just say how much I appreciate the plugins you've made available from DAZ. Point Normal Move is something I've wished to have for a long time, and the new EdgeBevel is fantastic.

Thanks.
- ub52

Werner
10-29-2002, 07:07 AM
Thanks to all of you, for the help! The plugins are kickass.

One question tho...would this be possible?

Select a row of points, and have the option to move in both edge directions...hope you understand what I mean. I would like to have the animated gif below, as one option

yahll
10-29-2002, 08:00 AM
You could add points where you want the points to be and weld the other points to them

Werner
10-29-2002, 10:28 AM
yahll, I don't want to create more geometry, just to move a couple of points. This would be a usefull tool...I know because I used it allot in 3ds max (some script) Beleave me, you'd like it if you had it.

whattawa, would it be possible to add something like this?

yahll
10-29-2002, 10:59 AM
But you don't add geometry, after welding you have the same number of points,
This method is prety fast when you get use to
anyway I have to take a look at those plugins

Werner
10-29-2002, 11:10 AM
yahll - ok, just imagine working on a hi poly character...say somewhere around the torso...it would be able to quickly select two points, and run point-rail select(shortcut key). Then de-select the number of point you don't want to be effected by the move, then open the new plugin, and move the points (almost like moving edges) closer together, without changing the overall shape.

I come from a max background, and having edges to work with is very powerful...believe me.

This plugin would be very useful to get more detail at selected areas on your model.

isnowboard
10-29-2002, 11:52 AM
Werner, email Cman. I bet he could do this one in no time flat!

Werner
10-29-2002, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by isnowboard
Werner, email Cman. I bet he could do this one in no time flat!


How about it Cman...do you have some free time on your hands???

yahll
10-29-2002, 01:41 PM
Now I know what you mean, in that case it would be a pain.
So what you want is the ability to interactively move those points along their edges.....
That would be sweet :drool: I believe you

isnowboard
10-29-2002, 02:14 PM
Werner, private message him...just in case he doesn't read this thread! :) He seems like a guy that like a challenge and judging from his other scripts, it's up his alley.

whattawa
10-29-2002, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by ub52
My apologies whattawa. I did not mean to imply that Segment Scale was inferior. I will certainly try to make sure my understanding is more complete berfore making statements about how a plugin behaves. Being an adult male pre gen-x I suffer terribly from an aversion to RTM, and so you don't think I look a gift horse in the mouth, let me just say how much I appreciate the plugins you've made available from DAZ. Point Normal Move is something I've wished to have for a long time, and the new EdgeBevel is fantastic.

Thanks.
- ub52

Whoa. I am sorry. I see my words came across a little harsh but they weren't meant that way. I was the first to say the plugin is a little hard to use. Selecting points in order is a pain! I have now played with Stretch Point and I can honestly tell you that in some ways that plugin blows away Segment Scale. Stretch Point allows you to group select, but Segment Scale makes you select in order. SP decides what the segments are, not you (when you group select). SS allows you to have ultimate control (well, you actually are required to have that control). Again I don't think it's a battle of which is best, but instead gives you the ability to choose which tool works best for you. I know that in some instances, I will be using Stretch Point instead of Segment Scale. :blush: Don't tell our programmer :) But in others I will stick with SS.

Mainly, though, the first reason we made SS was because we wanted to be able to scale multiple segments like you can in Mirai. Then, to get even better control, it was made so you can move one side to the other as well. We have a quick version of that coming out soon so you can run the plugin without selecting anything and then you just run around the model moving points along edges.

I am sorry if I sounded upset about what you wrote. I wasn't upset at anyone but myself for not making things clearer. We're new to the Lightwave Plugin business. We are essentially trying to get Lightwave to the point where it can be as efficient for modelling from start to finish as other programs are. I think we can all admit that Lightwave is lacking in some pretty big areas. Of course, we also know that it is an incredible tool in all the areas that aren't weak, which makes it very worth developing for.

As to a tool where you can move points along multiple edges, we have one in development. Well, that function is a very small part of it, but it is there. The tool we are developing allows great control in perspective view and allows using of other parts of geometry (like normals, segments, segment normals, etc) for input as to how to move things. I don't know when we are releasing that one, though. We have some more functionality to put in and a couple bugs to fix.

KillMe
10-29-2002, 09:23 PM
whoa that sounds like one hell of a plugin your developing cant wait for it and the quick version seg scale sounds very cool indeed

your programer clearly is very talented

maybe another plug you coudl deveolp would be a very simple one that i think might be useful but perhaps nto for you in which case anyone who can do scripts might take on teh challenge

aanyway here the idea

its a cross between bevel and extrude and smooth shift

so you can extrude out multiple segemtns in one go witha control from teh numeric panel obiously and that it works on muliple polys at one time and can scale the polys lke bevel with the mouse interactivly

Werner
12-10-2002, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by whattawa
Whoa. I am sorry. I see my words came across a little harsh but they weren't meant that way. I was the first to say the plugin is a little hard to use. Selecting points in order is a pain! I have now played with Stretch Point and I can honestly tell you that in some ways that plugin blows away Segment Scale. Stretch Point allows you to group select, but Segment Scale makes you select in order. SP decides what the segments are, not you (when you group select). SS allows you to have ultimate control (well, you actually are required to have that control). Again I don't think it's a battle of which is best, but instead gives you the ability to choose which tool works best for you. I know that in some instances, I will be using Stretch Point instead of Segment Scale. :blush: Don't tell our programmer :) But in others I will stick with SS.

Mainly, though, the first reason we made SS was because we wanted to be able to scale multiple segments like you can in Mirai. Then, to get even better control, it was made so you can move one side to the other as well. We have a quick version of that coming out soon so you can run the plugin without selecting anything and then you just run around the model moving points along edges.

I am sorry if I sounded upset about what you wrote. I wasn't upset at anyone but myself for not making things clearer. We're new to the Lightwave Plugin business. We are essentially trying to get Lightwave to the point where it can be as efficient for modelling from start to finish as other programs are. I think we can all admit that Lightwave is lacking in some pretty big areas. Of course, we also know that it is an incredible tool in all the areas that aren't weak, which makes it very worth developing for.

As to a tool where you can move points along multiple edges, we have one in development. Well, that function is a very small part of it, but it is there. The tool we are developing allows great control in perspective view and allows using of other parts of geometry (like normals, segments, segment normals, etc) for input as to how to move things. I don't know when we are releasing that one, though. We have some more functionality to put in and a couple bugs to fix.

hmmm, how are the guys doing on this plugin...will we see it soon?

whattawa
12-10-2002, 10:11 PM
I wish I could say it will be soon. Unluckily, our programmer is pulled onto another project that is more pressing for now. I don't know when he will be able to get back on it to fix the problems we are having with it right now. I hope for everyone's benefit it is soon, though. Maybe in the New Year we will be able to get going on it again.

Werner
12-11-2002, 06:48 AM
hey, no problem whattawa! Thanks for the reply

:applause:

mix
12-11-2002, 08:41 AM
Hi whattawa,
This may be a bit off topic, but whats the guts with your bevel edge plugin, Last time we talked was about a month and a half ago were you said the update to it had just been completed and would be out that weekend.
Don't mean to sound too forward here but, WASSUP!:buttrock:

whattawa
12-11-2002, 05:47 PM
Actually it was going out the first of this week but then someone discovered one more bug. I was very bummed. I was lucky that person looked at it. We fixed the problem where if you select across the X axis it got screwy, but across the Z axis is a little screwy too, which we hadn't tested enough before. So, if our programmer is able to hop on it, I hope next week something might happen. Once we get this bug fixed we will be releasing it for Mac and PC.

bri
12-12-2002, 08:33 AM
haven't tried it yet, but seems the plugin you've been lookin' for:

http://www.hurleyworks.com/
plugins, on edge

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