fibonacci sunflower HELP!

[jackb602]

Hi

I'm stuck good and proper. I have a job due in on Monday and need to build a sunflower - it's the seeds I'm having a problem with. they neey to be in a fibonacci spiral but I can't figure out how to do this in C4D. Anyone have any ideas??

I've got DI tools so I can duplicate objects along a spline (what I've been trying to do) but they don't orient (bank) properly. The seeds also need to scale as they spiral, and fit together organically.

I don't know how to inset a picture here, but if you do a search on Google images for 'sunflower' you'll see what I mean.

HELP!!

S

I'm pretty sure that Xfrog will allow you to do exactly what you want with its Phyllotaxis object. Here's a description: http://www.xfrogdownloads.com/greenwebNew/products/productStart.htm
It's a great plugin that has many uses beyond just modelling plants. I recommend it. It looks like they offer a free 30 day trial as well. Good luck with your project.

Jack

[martinp]

Hi Simon,

Do you have Jenna? In particular Iterator?

If so, here's a quick (and fairly dirty) hack that gets a little way towards your end goal. It's not accurate, but starts to get the right feel.

I started trying to get it "correct" following some of the ideas here:

http://www.maa.org/mathland/mathtrek_09_02_02.html

but we really need a way to place objects on precise polar coordinates if you try this. Maybe one of the formula tools in Di would do it.

Anyway, I can't remember if DiTools has a "scale as you iterate" option (I'll check in a minute) so I ended up in Jenna.

Martin

[martinp]

I forgot to say, adjust the number of iterated instances to change the spiral effect on the head. I haven't quite got it to do both forward and backward spirals visually.


If you don't have Jenna, it's just a load of capsules (980) on a 7200 degree helix which has the bias tweaked on the height to give the dome. The items are scaled by 100.08% at each step to grow outwards. Maybe place-on-points does scaling of instances (scurries off to check)

[Katachi]

you could also use DPIT3->Dubber which has a phyllotaxis option, too.

[martinp]

Very true, the pro solutions will be far more accurate than mine :-)

[simond]

Hi Simon,

Do you have Jenna? In particular Iterator?

If so, here's a quick (and fairly dirty) hack that gets a little way towards your end goal. It's not accurate, but starts to get the right feel.

I started trying to get it "correct" following some of the ideas here:

http://www.maa.org/mathland/mathtrek_09_02_02.html

but we really need a way to place objects on precise polar coordinates if you try this. Maybe one of the formula tools in Di would do it.

Anyway, I can't remember if DiTools has a "scale as you iterate" option (I'll check in a minute) so I ended up in Jenna.

Martin

Thanks Martin

I've ended up using a map pretty much like the golden ratio spiral in the link you gave - used this to drive SPD in a materal on a hemisphere (and a second one with bigger fewer dots with an alpha to blend the two). Worked quite well, though doesn't have true scalling. It's going to have to do because I'm out of time.

I don't have Jenna. What really narked me though is C4D native Duplicate command flipping half the objects when you do a spline dupliacate - needs fixing that one.

best

S

[simond]

I'm pretty sure that Xfrog will allow you to do exactly what you want with its Phyllotaxis object. Here's a description: http://www.xfrogdownloads.com/greenwebNew/products/productStart.htm
It's a great plugin that has many uses beyond just modelling plants. I recommend it. It looks like they offer a free 30 day trial as well. Good luck with your project.

Jack

Hi Jack

Yes, I know about XFrog, but I didn't have the time to be messing round with it for this - esp not knowing whether it would give me the look I wanted. It's one of those plugins you only know you need after you've started a job!

ah well..

S

[simond]

you could also use DPIT3->Dubber which has a phyllotaxis option, too.

Hi Samir

Thanks, for the tip. I've downloaded the demo to take a look when I have time, not for this job though.

S

[Mike Abbott]

Hi

I'm stuck good and proper. I have a job due in on Monday and need to build a sunflower - it's the seeds I'm having a problem with. they neey to be in a fibonacci spiral but I can't figure out how to do this in C4D. Anyone have any ideas??
S


Simon, Hi,
I've done similar jobs myself:

http://www.vgd.co.uk/x/fib014b.jpg

Done in Xfrog. Last time I looked they had a 30 day fully functional demo - that would do you nicely. Use the Phyllotaxis object. In the attribute manager you'll see the splines relating to the Phyllotaxis object, and they have a menu containing the appropraite 'golden mean' angle for the fibonnacci series.

The site I got my initial info from was:

http://www.math.smith.edu/~phyllo/
...highly recommended.

Mike Abbott
www.vgd.co.uk

[flingster]

nice links guys...thanks for sharing them...:thumbsup:

[govinda]

This or that other plugin would do it, but DiTools (which he already has) would do it without the additional purchases. The 'scale along spline' function can be done with a ramp gradient in a material applied to DiCloner (the dicloner example files show how to do this--it's simple). Duping along a spine is easy enough, just try all the options ('fit to length' is one that'd do it, as would 'area' and then adjust the default from 200 downward). If the seeds are rotating incorrectly, put them in a null and then put them in dicloner. Then rotate the base seed inside the null.

As for the fibo, that's a matter that I bet Flingster could explain using some or other formula object/iterator of ditools that I never get into.

[3dg]

Simon, Hi,
I've done similar jobs myself:

http://www.vgd.co.uk/x/fib014b.jpg

Done in Xfrog. Last time I looked they had a 30 day fully functional demo - that would do you nicely. Use the Phyllotaxis object. In the attribute manager you'll see the splines relating to the Phyllotaxis object, and they have a menu containing the appropraite 'golden mean' angle for the fibonnacci series.

The site I got my initial info from was:

http://www.math.smith.edu/~phyllo/ (http://www.math.smith.edu/%7Ephyllo/)
...highly recommended.

Mike Abbott
www.vgd.co.uk (http://www.vgd.co.uk)

Mike - very nice example and great resource link ya got there.

Did you do your example with a single phyllo object? I'm having a little trouble understanding how the graphs in xfrog 4.22 relate to real world fibonacci numbers.

For instance, a particular flower should use a spiral ratio of (21,34) but I have no idea what formula/numbers to apply and even where to apply them.

If you had time for even a brief explanation, I'm sure it would help a lot of people out.

Thanks

[flingster]

This or that other plugin would do it, but DiTools (which he already has) would do it without the additional purchases. The 'scale along spline' function can be done with a ramp gradient in a material applied to DiCloner (the dicloner example files show how to do this--it's simple). Duping along a spine is easy enough, just try all the options ('fit to length' is one that'd do it, as would 'area' and then adjust the default from 200 downward). If the seeds are rotating incorrectly, put them in a null and then put them in dicloner. Then rotate the base seed inside the null.

As for the fibo, that's a matter that I bet Flingster could explain using some or other formula object/iterator of ditools that I never get into.


lol...it probably is possible in ditools really..didn't explore it really as i have xfrog and seemed like this is where its in its elements. funny you mention dicloner splines...i'm been hammering remo for some improvements to cloner and its spline functions..definitely room for scope and improvements...if you have any ideas please let me know about this or post them on the forum...as i've been putting a list together for it..and i know how you love that motion work bud...cheers.
you might have to use dijoiner at some stage for your splines..dunno..and might have to make the odd bit editable inorder to get your spiral parts...just thinking aloud though might not even be necessary...should be to hard though really with as you say gradient texture controlling scale....maybe the spines could be created with parserspline...again..dunno..

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