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View Full Version : Skateboarder: Normal mappage


Poopinmymouth
07-19-2005, 07:43 AM
Many people have probably seen this guy in my normal map tutorial, which is now finished, see this thread for the tutorial.
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=253319

This was my art test for Neversoft. I had to make the character under 1200 and the accessories in another 400. I used three 1024 maps, color, normal, spec. I ended up getting the job, and I'll be moving August 3rd to most likely work on GUN.

The finished shebang
http://www.poopinmymouth.com/3d/skater.jpg

The high poly
http://www.poopinmymouth.com/3d/skater_hipoly.jpg

The low poly
http://www.poopinmymouth.com/3d/skater_lopoly.jpg

Color
http://www.poopinmymouth.com/3d/skater_c.jpg

Normal
http://www.poopinmymouth.com/3d/skater_n.jpg

Specular (the specular I'm the least happy with, it was a little rushed and I might revisit it at a later time)
http://www.poopinmymouth.com/3d/skater_s.jpg

And a fun Gif of the different passes.
http://www.poopinmymouth.com/net/cgchat/skater_10.gif

Figured I'd post it and do a little pimpage. I'm open to critique and criticism, but it will be for implementing on my next project, as I'm ready to put this one to bed.

AdamAtomic
07-19-2005, 07:51 AM
The high poly and normal mapping turned out really beautiful, his face is really great, and I especially love the buttons and button holes for the collar, that is a GREAT detail. I think the pose is pretty weak, but I understand if you are more trying to show off the model, most good poses obscure important parts! I think the water bottle is pretty weak too.

Of course, by weak I mean perfectly fine, just not as stunning as the rest! Really nice work!

Neox
07-19-2005, 08:02 AM
i like the modelling, nice work, i'm not quite sure with the textures, they are looking pretty simple

but however tahts personal taste, how large is he supposed to be? he is about 6 - 6.5 heads high, thats pretty small, compared to his head, the shoulders seem to be not wide enough, i'm not really suree about the proportions but something seems to be a bit off

Poopinmymouth
07-19-2005, 08:11 AM
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention. I was given a concept, which had very stylized proportions. Large head, long torso, and short legs. It was to match the proportions of their last game.

Neox, most maps for next gen content are very simple. I'm not claiming mine are perfect, but there is very little info in each map, as the engine provides the majority of information after combining them all. Rather than looking at the individual maps, look at the final image of them being combined.

Neox
07-19-2005, 08:21 AM
Neox, most maps for next gen content are very simple.

so yours have to be that simple too? ;)
so show us how you want it to look in game, if it is like in the upper image, then i'm not a fan of it, because its just a simple diffuse map with normalmapping doing the whole job, i don't like that the classic texturing methods are dying because of normal maps that can only try to get that look, to me it doesn't look quite realistic and stylisticly it's boring, everything looks the same, all the same greyish shadows, but as i said that is just my personal favor, you did good and solid work on this guy, the look is just not my kind of thing :)

Poopinmymouth
07-19-2005, 08:27 AM
You have to walk before you can run. Right now most games only have support for pixel shader 1.0, and 3dsmax is the same way. I personally like the style of old school texture maps myself, but I don't get to drive the direction of the industry. Normal maps, whether you like them or not, are dynamic, and that alone can make them look much better than old school texture maps. It's where still shots, and playing the game to see them in motion can make all the difference.
Eventually we will get more control over shadow color, falloff, true reflection instead of specular color, and more, but until then, we gotta make use of the tech we got. Not to mention I had a concept I was trying to match if I wanted to get the job.

I appreciate your critique, but it does sound like it's mostly personal preference.

Bazooka Tooth
07-19-2005, 08:49 AM
I ended up getting the job, and I'll be moving August 3rd to most likely work on GUN.

Congrats, that's the kind of stuff I like to hear. Nice texturing, I am not a fan of the model, but that is not something you had a choice on. Well, I guess it is a way better concept than something I saw someone else had to do: 50 Cent (the MTV guy).

Bazooka Tooth
07-19-2005, 08:55 AM
How long did they give you to do this?

Neox
07-19-2005, 09:02 AM
it's not the normalmap that i dislike its the textures beneath them, did you ever tried to mix that normalmapping with classic textures? maybe it will work (as i said in several threads, i should try that on zorro when i find the time) maybe it won't, maybe a bit more prelighting and colorvariation would help... if the shader doesn't support what you meantioned, why not try to fake it with the textures?

katzeimsack
07-19-2005, 09:44 AM
I think unreal 3 choose that method. The models loook very good and I am shure, their diffusemaps have more lightinformation than doom3 and all the other "plastic" games!

my current project uses that method tooo, I willl post some pictures the next weeks (time D: )

itsallgoode9
07-19-2005, 09:49 AM
Glad to here you got the job :thumbsup: I think it turned out pretty cool. Maybe I have bad tastes though because I seem to be going against the grain lol :) I'm pretty impressed by the normal mapping in this for some reason though, it seems to look alot more like geometry whereas alot of people who use Normal Maps, it is kinda easy to tell it's normal mapped. Good Job.

mindrot
07-19-2005, 11:15 AM
This looks great poop. I love the high poly model. Nice and clean.

I have to agree with Adam Atomic on the water bottle.

WHW
07-19-2005, 11:27 AM
Ditto about the time frame - how long?

Highpoly model looks really good btw.

johnwoo
07-19-2005, 11:44 AM
Slick result poop!...and Congrats on landing the job...btw....I saw the GUN trailer yesterday morning, and I was pleased to see it is a mature title with excellent horse gameplay...:thumbsup:...it definitely looks like a goodun....

Colin77
07-19-2005, 01:10 PM
Tony the tiger says Ggggrrreeat!

i really like this, must pick ur brain about normal mapping when u get a moment.

Great stuff again.

Col

Confracto
07-19-2005, 05:05 PM
awesoom work poop, I learned a lot from your tutorial, thx!
and Neox, check out Pior's thread (which is probably on page 2 now)..it's got a tutorial, and at the bottom, he's made a psd file that converts normal, spec and bump into shading. REally neat peice of work.

honestly, I think it's going to be a few years before we really learn how to use all the tools we have now...unreal 3 is just the beginning as far as I'm concerned. It's like consoles...all the really awesome looking games come at the end, becasue they finally know how to use it well.

Hatred
07-19-2005, 05:37 PM
nice model Poop it looks realy like hi poly :) I like it a lot!

Poopinmymouth
07-19-2005, 05:46 PM
did you ever tried to mix that normalmapping with classic textures? maybe it will work (as i said in several threads, i should try that on zorro when i find the time) maybe it won't, maybe a bit more prelighting and colorvariation would help... if the shader doesn't support what you meantioned, why not try to fake it with the textures?

Yes I have tried it.
Yes sometimes I like the mix of shading in the texture map. I had time constraints for this project (total time was about 22 hours for everything for those who asked) as well as I didn't know what type of engine they would be using (which weighs heavily on what texture style to use). I'm doing another high poly model that is getting normal mapped, where I'm going to do some hardcore oldschool texture painting on the color map. I've put the information in the texture before, and had Art Directors and my Producer make me take it out becuase it fought with the normal map in game. It's a touchy subject very much up to personal preference.

Anything you "bake" into the map is static. It will never change. I enjoy keeping the hardcore painting for non normal mapped objects, and waiting for the tech to come online to make the different things dynamic that some people fake in the texture.

Also, I've seen the unreal 3 flats, there is absolutely zero lighting information in them. They have quite a bit more surface detail, more pores, rust, and noise, but then again, they have a month to make the high poly and another several weeks to make the color maps. That and they are working with two 2048 texture maps. Any and all lighting in the ue3 shots, is a testament to how much tech they have available in their engine.

*edited to be less bull headed. 8-)

RO
07-19-2005, 06:15 PM
That is a bit too defensive... Looks good for the time allowed it is well done. True the models for GOW have very little light info on them. The high poly models are Hollywood quality and the normal maps are that amazing. It has so much info in the normal maps that it makes the characters so very lush. But of course those guys are using huge textures. On environments the tricks are a tad different.



Nobody said you were new to this. Sure compared to other stuff it needs work in places to give it a better feel. It is still good for the time allowed. Game company tests are mostly technical tests anyhow.

Poopinmymouth
07-19-2005, 06:34 PM
You're right Desp. Not sure why that rubbed me the wrong way so badly.

I could have and should have spent more time on the texture maps, and the end result isn't appealing to some people. I realize that, and I'm sorry for jumping down your throat Neox. Thanks for your input.

Neox
07-19-2005, 08:33 PM
i criticized, you argued, thats the way it is, i've got no problem with it, all i do i trying to express my thoughts, you don't have to follow my thoughts, as i said it is good and solid work, don't let anyone drive you crazy, you are too professional and experienced for this :beer:

thanks for sharing your knowledge with such a nitpicky guy like me :D

katzeimsack
07-19-2005, 10:15 PM
@ pop that'w my try to mix color and normalmap:
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?p=2476796#post2476796

Por@szek
07-20-2005, 12:23 AM
Daddy, daddy look!! Master Poop post a superb normal mapped dude!!
Oki .. don't laught its not funny :) Anyway awesome model. You work on GUN i saw in few post under. Gosh few hours ago we were laughing with one buddy from my last studio, couse we were also doing a wild west story. Not so great but it was, funny times, any way the project were cancelled.
Back to skater. Only thing is bothering me is a bottle, like was said earlier. great work Master Poop:thumbsup:

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