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View Full Version : Powerbomb (Critiques needed)


Grayscale
10-27-2002, 03:18 AM
Folks, here is an attempt at a sorta cartoony powerbomb. I've been staring at this damn thing for WAY too long. I know I missed some detail that needs to be changed. Please...help me. This is just a test for a wrestler's entrance video that I'll be doing in the future....WAY in the future.


::Wincing:: Be gentle. This is my first piece I've posted.



http://www.geocities.com/grayscale88/PowerBomb

Rogue
10-28-2002, 02:57 PM
Busted link?

Grayscale
10-28-2002, 03:09 PM
Rogue,
right click and save target as...
I don't have an official website, so I had to use geocities(which doesn't support movie links). So, just right click and save it. Should work. If not..let me know.

goosh
10-28-2002, 05:37 PM
Nice Grayscale!!

It's soo cool to see IK Joe being animated!!

Anyway.. first of all, I would change the colors of one of them (just a little) so there is some distinctions between them.. this way it's easier to see when they are so close together.

The motion is there, I think you just need a little bit more weight (specially on the guy standing up) he lifts the other and doesn't really feel the weight of it..

Just a little bit more follow through all over and you would have it.

Great stuff!!!

Keep it going

Goosh

Grayscale
10-28-2002, 05:53 PM
Goosh,
You're right, I was just looking at it and he needs to bend his knees more when the guy is on his shoulders. I'll get on that and change the colors of one guy. Then I'll repost. Thanks. Any other critiques from anyone?

Rogue
10-28-2002, 07:31 PM
Ok, that worked. It's a good start. Just need some tweaking here and there. As goosh said, there seems to be a lack of weight when he picks the other guy up. He gets him up there really quickly. Have his waist shift some more and maybe even step to correct his balance. I'd also have his feet not symmetrical. Offset them a bit. This will help to keep his balance and the waist will have larger area to move and you'll be able to shift the weight from one leg the other. I'd also have him step when he slams the guy down...like he's putting everything into it.

When the guy hits the ground, I think his bounces is a little too fast and jerky. Try slowing just a little bit and smoothing the curves.

Lastly, have his hands lag behind the forearms, and the forearms behind the hand. This will make the motion look a little more fluid. Look at Frinsklens walk cycle and watch his hands. It looks really smooth because of the overlapping motion.

Post your update. Looking good.

jschleifer
10-28-2002, 10:11 PM
All good comments above.. definitely need to see more of a sense of weight. Also, with the guy who lands, he's heading in a particular direction when he's thrown.. away from the guy throwing him. However, when he bounces, it looks like he's bouncing straight up instead of continuing the motion. Watch it from a side view and see if he's indeed bouncing up, or continuing the direction away from the characted tossing him.

Also, you've got quite a lot of twinning going on (twinning is when you have both sides of the character doing the same thing at the same time). Try having the character land on his left hip 2 frames before his right hip hits the ground.. this can lead to a much more interesting landing..

in addition, if you watch real wrestlers when they hit the ground, they always pop back up, throwing one arm in the air & one hand in the small of their back to sell the hit. Try doing something with your guy after he hits the ground to give him some emotion.

-jason

Grayscale
10-29-2002, 12:02 AM
Folks,
Thanks for all the critiques. I'm going to spend alot of time on this before I re-post. I will post an updated version by the end of the week (hopefully). This was an early test of the powerbomb, and I tend to animate real fast....and sometimes miss something obvious...like the weight of the guy delivering the move.

My last job, I got used to animating fast and just dealing with what couldn't be fixed. The company knew nothing about character animation..our quota was 900 frames of finished character animation...per day!

Jason, I do watch wrestling (an am an avid fan), I'm going to be doing a wrestler's entrance in the near future. So, I'm testing the small clips I'm going to have the wrestler do on his Entrance Video. I've watched so many entrance videos where the wrestler is delivering their finishing move. So... I am just getting afew moves tested. I animated the "Edgecution" and will post it up sometime, though I may have to reanimate it because I'm not satisfied with the characters I used.

I want to Thank you all again for the critiques. I'll do my best to work the kinks out and get it posted this week.

goosh
10-29-2002, 12:37 AM
900 frames per day?

hehehe.. that's funny!!!

Grayscale
10-29-2002, 12:41 AM
Yes Goosh...900 frames a day... oh..and did I mention that was in Lightwave with only one level of undo? yeah....um...yeah... that was interesting. And they wondered why they got the basic movements with little subtle and overlapping action. I have some of the work with me...but, not sure if I can post it.

MosaFacku
10-29-2002, 12:44 AM
yeah, i already told ya this, but here ya have a hardcopy :)

offset the feet. and while they're offsetted, try having the pelvis lift up and forward while he's lifting the guy....offset the hands on the guy lifting so they dont go back at the same time. u already fixed the back. ......ok on the other guy, lemme see.....do what jason said about having him keep going in the direction he was thrown.......offset everything thats settling down at the same time, have one hand hit, then maybe the head, then maybe the other hand. do the same with the feet.

later greyscale.

:xtreme:

Frinsklen
10-29-2002, 08:04 PM
Hi,
I didnt have the time to read all the comments, so maybe I'm just repeating some of the advices. Anyway:

The animation lacks weight (I guess this has been said). When he raises the guy, all the body reaches the top position at the same time, it looks like he's lifting a rigid puppet. He's lifted too fast, by the way. Try making his legs shake to feel the weight more easily (this may look too cartoony for you, though). Add some overlap as well. And the way he bounces on the ground when he's thrown... It looks "unrealistic", I'm not sure why, maybe he bounces too fast. I dont like the way he opens his arms once he's thrown, too rigid.
If Rogue says "look at Frinsklen's walkcycle and watch his hands", you'd better do what he says. :D
Here (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25724) it is...

Animators are supposed to watch cartoons... but you can always watch some wrestling instead if you like. :D :buttrock:

The poses seem right, I think this could end up looking pretty good.


Nice job. Let's see what's next...

oh, and change the colours of one of them, please. :)

Grayscale
10-30-2002, 10:14 PM
Thanks again guys for the critiques. I'll have an update by Friday. He now takes two steps backwards, and gets up on his tip toes right before he delivers the finishing blow. I think it looks 10x better then before..but I don't want to post the update since its not ALL completed. Thanks again.

Grayscale
11-01-2002, 01:29 AM
Alright, before I go any further, I wanted to check and see what you all though. He steps back because he is getting ready to plant the guy on his back, not because he is trying to compensate for the weight. Let me know.



*Save Target As*

http://www.geocities.com/grayscale88/Fixes.avi

Rudity
11-01-2002, 07:58 AM
Well I can help out with this one since I wrestled for 6 years.

OK first of all the guy who is dong the powerbomb is very nice.

But the guy who is getting picked up looks dead after he leaves the ground..
When ever a person is in mid air there backs are never arched backwards.. Its a defence thing.
Its hard to throw or pick someone up, but when you do it becomes so easy because you use the natural defence against them, a person will turtle up, keep there head closer to there chest, ready for impact. So when he gets picked up he should then start aiding the person picking himself up so he doesn't get slammed incorrectly and DIE!!!!
So it should be really hard for him to get picked up, but really easy for him to throw him after the guy is picked up..
Of course this is for real wrestling..
The WWF shit is fake so they dont have to worry about how they fall cause they get put down.

Does this make any sense???


This is just nit picking though, but something else to think about.
I can't belive how much wrestling has helped my animation perception though. Who woulda thunk it?
Later
Rudity.

Rogue
11-01-2002, 12:15 PM
Looking better. I think the red guy should move his waist more when he's picking up the blue guy. At the moment, it moves a little, but make it move down more....he's got to get under the weight of the blue dude and then he can push back up into the higher position.

The timing of the step looks of to me. Not between the two feet, that looks good. But when he actually takes a step. I'm not sure what advice to give about that. I'd try making it happen a bit sooner. Maybe as he was pushing his waist back up (as mentioned above).

Look good. Keep going!

goosh
11-01-2002, 05:41 PM
Looking better

I thing that when the blue guy goes up he should be 'rolling' off the red guy..

This would give it a sense of weight.. at the moment he is picking him up with the arms almost extended and so would make it look like he has no or very little weight.
Try to pick somebody up and you'll see that you need your body to pick him/her up. You'll have to lean them against your body so that their back and your stomach/chest are always in contact.

I'm not sure about the steps back though.. I mean, why not.. buy you could always slam the blue guy quickly... but I guess that doesn't matter...

Nice going

Goosh

Grayscale
11-01-2002, 06:00 PM
Goosh, everything matters. :) I have to work on the guy's pelvis and I will get him to roll up...glad I posted this before finishing the whole thing. We'll see how long it takes me to fix this one. I love animation!

goosh
11-01-2002, 06:23 PM
You can tweak for ever if you want.

It's important to know when it's finished though.. sometimes you just have to let it go.

Deadlines can be nice for this... If it was up to me I would carry on tweaking for years my 3 seconds of animation. But deadlines don't let me do that and I have to move on to the next shot.

That's I guess was the big difference between school and work for me. At school I had the pleasure to tweak as much as I wanted. At work I don't have that.. If a shot needs to be done by Tuesday, it needs to be done by Tuesday and sometiems it's not as pretty as I would have liked it to be, but I just have to live with it :(

Show us some progress when you have some ok?

Goosh

Grayscale
11-01-2002, 09:00 PM
Alright...here the blue guy is actually "rolling" up the red guy's body to get to the sitting position.




Save Target As
http://www.geocities.com/grayscale88/Roll.avi

goosh
11-01-2002, 10:09 PM
MUCH better...

But since I'm fine picking... I would have his COG go down more while he is lifting him... The blue guy is heavy.. so make the Red one feel it.. bend those knees more.. (while he is lifting the blue.. and carry on down a little further when he the blue gets to the top and then make the red bounce back to the position he is now)

Can you see how that would show more weight? Make him go down, feel the gravity pulling him down because of the extra weight and then lift himself back up a little to compensate.

It's looking a lot better!!

Keep at it

G

Frinsklen
11-02-2002, 11:50 AM
better...

- I would add more follow through to the legs of the blue guy.
- still needs more weight. The problem is on the red guy's feet. They don't step on strong enough.


Nothing else to add here, I think.

keep animating.

solarpickle
11-02-2002, 11:24 PM
You know what the problem is.....is that you smell! Plus you're ugly and you frighten all the little children. Maybe you should think of another profession.....LOL!!! Just kidding man, it's looking great! I won't critique you on here seeing as how if I have something to tell you, I can say it to your face.....this is Todd by the way! hehhehehehehehehe.......:bowdown: :xtreme: :insane:

Grayscale
11-02-2002, 11:44 PM
(sniffs arms) well..I did take a shower. Guess I can blame the wife for getting the wrong deodarant. Oh well.

Thanks for the um..critique I think.... and
Frinsklen and Goosh, I'll try and fix what you mentioned.

BishopLynx
11-06-2002, 06:34 AM
Hey man. Finally saw the update. Looking good.
The first couple of things that jumped out at me was
the lack of wieght or maybe a little snap in the legs when the
pink guy picks up the blue guy and also the blue guys head
would probably react a little differently yo being picked up.
Right now I get the impression that his head is just reacting to being picked instead of the character's emotions reacting to being picked up. see you in the dungeons!

MosaFacku
11-08-2002, 03:05 AM
sorry i haven't posted in a while.

i haven't really read the other posts thouroughly but here's my thoughts on the anim......


when he picks up the blue guy, try having him hunch down a lil more, so when he picks up the guy, his pelvis is able to lift up a little bit....after that, his right leg lifts, but the guys weight doesn't seem to shift at all. its probably the angle though. other than that. keep rockin :buttrock:

later

:xtreme:

Grayscale
11-11-2002, 06:32 PM
Alright folks. Here is the finished move. Now,the blue guy is trying to sell the move, so he sits up in a rather overdramatic fashion. I've seen many wrestlers do it this way. I think I need to move on to something else, but I will fix what is necessary in time, so I still would like the critiques. Thanks.



Save Target As:
http://www.geocities.com/grayscale88/Slam.avi

Also, if it gives you an error, it's because Geocities has a transfer limit and it'll just need to be given some time. I'm working on getting an actual site. Thanks.
Gray

MosaFacku
11-12-2002, 03:30 AM
YO!

looks a whole lot better than the first ones.

at first i thought that the actual throw was a bit too fast, but now im used to it. may still be a lil too quick.
blue's hands go up too rigid and seem to need a lil more follow through...its like they reach a certain point, stop, then go back...i see u have a little bit of follow through in there, but its like u need to ease into it more, instead of slammin on the breaks and down a little to slow and rigid to me, but if thats the style you're going for, do it.

the lift still needs a lil more weight. but i dunno how to achieve it.

i really like the 2nd half a lot. its cool. just might want to make a few minor fixes.

:buttrock: :buttrock: :xtreme: :buttrock: :buttrock:

later

Grayscale
11-15-2002, 02:17 PM
any other opinions?....anyone....anyone...beullar...beullar.....anyone?

goosh
11-15-2002, 05:23 PM
Yeah.. a little bit more weight on the lift would help

it's looking a lot better... almost there :d

G

SpaceFork
11-20-2002, 01:14 AM
I agree with goosh, it seems to me that the blue guy's legs should come down on the shoulders a little quicker, with a little more weight being shown as it happens. Also, at the end maybe the left hand needs to fall half a tad faster, and the left leg should have a little more settle in like the right leg does. Of course, these are just suggestions. Good stuff.:bounce:

Rogue
11-20-2002, 02:32 AM
Hey guy, been under the crunch lately.

It's looking even better. It's come a long way since the first one. The two main things I see is that it still needs more weight when he picks the blue guy up. You really need to move the red guys waist down a little more, and push back up into position.

When he actually performs his move, he just kinda zooms to the floor. He's falling to the ground, so he's going to accelerate. It looks linear now and a little fast. Also, he's going to fall in the direction that his body was moving before he falls. At the moment, it looks like his waist is moving up, and slightly, if at all, forward. Then he suddenly zooms forward. He's got to push himself in that direction in order to fall that way. So I'd have him lift one foot off the ground and push off with the other foot...just like a step, but with more power. I think that will help give the move a little umph!

Hope this helps out. Looking better all the time..

Grayscale
11-20-2002, 04:08 AM
Rogue/Space/Goosh

Thanks alot. I have fixed the left arm...but right now, I'm in the middle of modeling the wrestler. I think I'm going to just leave this test as it is. And take those critiques for when I actually animate the final animation. Remember..this was just a test. I really appreciate all the help guys. I've gotten alot of awesome advice from alot of awesome animators! Thanks.

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