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View Full Version : So Where Do I Go For Tutorials Or Post Tutorials If I Wanted Too???


twistednoodle4000
07-17-2005, 11:22 PM
I have been seeing this fight between Roberto, Rebecca and Lunatique. I am curious of where to go for tutorials now.. cant someone make one forum called tutorials and have everyone have subforums or just threads with questions and tutorials there,, so any joe smoe with a good idea can post a useful tutorial?

Lunatique
07-18-2005, 03:40 AM
There is no fighting, just disagreement on how cgtalk should be organized.

With the way things are right now, if you have tutorials you want to post, unless it's specifically about anatomy or figure drawing (which you post in Rebecca's subforum in the WIP 2D forum), you post them in the Art Techniques and Theories forum.

All the tutorials are linked in the sticky thread "Art Tutorials, Theories, and book recommendations" in the Art Techniques and Theories forum, including the ones in the WIP 2D forum.

PerfectBlue
07-18-2005, 03:52 AM
Its only because... Roberto stole Lunatique's baby and is actually the 3rd cousin of Rebecca, who is trying to destroy Lunatique's marriage to Roberto in the first place! BUT! What Rebecca doesn't know is the baby is actually hers and that the miscarriage was actually Roberto stealing the child. BUT! As it turns out, roberto is not actually related to Rebecca so their secret love affair was not wrong int he 1st place, meaning that lunatique's marriage to Roberto is void since Roberto is actually in love with...


*inhails*

..Rebecca, but what none of them know is that the baby is actually Leigh's and she switched it in the hospital because of her affair with Lunatique's ex husband and didn't want her to find out, BUT what Leigh doesn't know is that Lunatique's ex was actually a women and the child was artificially created by Rebecca's overzealous father who had a secret obsession with her all along....






...


Next episode of; All my CG Artists.

Lunatique
07-18-2005, 04:00 AM
You forgot about the part when Santa secretly visited one of the involved parties one night with a very special gift...from HELL! You also forgot about the part when aliens contracted rogue CIA operatives and ex-KGB assassins to implant monitoring devices in one of the involved parties (and be ready to carry out the assisination if the device behaves unexpectedly). The device itself has malfunctioned due to the radioactive nature of Santa's secret gift from hell. That malfunction is causing some serious problems, but the aliens have not given the order to carry out the assisination--they are fascinated by the effect the device has on the involved party.

Stay tuned. . ..

jmBoekestein
07-18-2005, 05:02 AM
Hey this is fun!

:).


DO you guys have an opening for set designers?

umbrellasky
07-18-2005, 07:52 AM
I'm confused where to look for tutorials :P I would usually go here: Art Techniques and Theories forum because it makes more sense to me. I was looking for a tutorial I found a couple of days ago but couldn't find it, then I found it in the WIP forum in Artistic Anatomy and Figurative Art (http://cgtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=177) which I felt it didn't belong, no offense to anyone...just a bit confusing.

twistednoodle4000
07-18-2005, 04:04 PM
Ok I still dont see why cant there be one forum called TUTORIALS. in that forum ALL TUTORIALS CAN BE POSTED. For specific works, eg ANATOMY there is a subforum dedicated only to anatomy... etc. ... then have a sticky like the one of the front page here that gives a link to every tutorial just one page to organize everything... much like in the Anatomy tutorial there is one sticky that names every tutorial and then gives a link... that makes a lot of sense.

How does this sound

TUTORIALS FORUM

ANATOMY subFORUM
PAINTING subFORUM
MODELING subFORUM (That has subforums itself for software packages)
etc etc etc.


either way it would NOT BE IN THE ART techinque or theorie forum or the WIP forum it would be a NEW FORUM... that way no one's ego gets hurt... and it also makes MORE SENSE.. since tutorials dont seem to fit anywhere but in a TUTORIAL FORUM....

I am new to cgtalk but it just seems as the most obvious way to organize tutorials for newcomers and well everyone that wants to see a tutorial.

thank you

Jacob

RobertoOrtiz
07-18-2005, 04:05 PM
A new forum WILL NOT happen.

It is not in our control.

But we can make thread to better organize the tutorials.


-R

twistednoodle4000
07-18-2005, 04:10 PM
it is not in your control.. but someone definetly makes that decision... can you tell me who so I can send them a message? or cant you forum leaders use your influence to get that done.. since it makes more sense?

I joined cgtalk in the hopes of learning some skills.. I really dont see why there has to be all this bickering... I am not trying to make people mad, just giving my opinion which I honestly believe makes sense. It should not be about 3 or 4 people but for the many CG members.

:banghead:

Stahlberg
07-18-2005, 04:40 PM
Admin is set against adding more forums left and right, half the forum leaders don't want any more forums at all, I'd tend to agree... I'm sure many members wouldn't want the number to increase much either...

I joined cgtalk in the hopes of learning some skills..
And the only way you can do that is by having a new forum that only re-organizes existing information? BTW, who's going to be forum leader of that forum and do all the work? Not me, Luna or Roberto, we're busy enough with the existing ones.

RobertoOrtiz
07-18-2005, 04:46 PM
Admin is set against adding more forums left and right, half the forum leaders don't want any more forums at all, I'd tend to agree... I'm sure many members wouldn't want the number to increase much either...


And the only way you can do that is by having a new forum that only re-organizes existing information? BTW, who's going to be forum leader of that forum and do all the work? Not me, Luna or Roberto, we're busy enough with the existing ones.

Agree 100% with what he said.
-R

twistednoodle4000
07-18-2005, 04:57 PM
I am sure someone in the community would be more than happy to be in charge of a forum. Really just post the availability of a new position for Forum leader and many people would respond... it looks great in a resume.. Dam I would do it if they would let me.

It makes sense to have a tutorial forum.. since it seems so IMPOSSIBLE for some reason, then the tutorials at least should be joined in one location...

Yes I can still learn if the tutorials are in different parts, but sometimes it is hard to find.. and if you look at other peoples post in the WIP 2d anatomy post I put you will see that some people are fustrated with having the tutorials everywhere.

am I the only person in that sees the sense of having all tutorials in one location?
I am done trying to convine you people.. it seems all I am doing is offending you for some reason.... there really is nothing to be offended though... the only reason I have not dropped it is because no one has given me a real reason why tutorials cant be located in one place. Tell me something that makes sense so I can understand why there has to be a divide in locations for tutorials.

danielh68
07-18-2005, 05:16 PM
I mentioned this very point in the Art Techniques forum and realized this is a sensitive subject among the forum leaders. I, for one, appreciate everything you guys do for us. However, I don't understand some of the negativity and cynicism in your responses, especially when members are asking thoughtful and constructive questions -- even, solution-orientated questions. Perhaps, I'm the only one that sees this.

Just my 2cents.

CGmonkey
07-18-2005, 07:39 PM
Why can't you use the search button as everybody else?

danielh68
07-18-2005, 08:27 PM
Sure, people can use the "search button" and find what they are looking for, but I don't think that's the issue. Just like, when I walk into a Barnes and Noble bookstore, I don't immediately walk up to a computer console and type in an ISBN number. Most people ample over to a specific clearly-indicated section that interests them, such as art, and then search for a title. It's the later, that I feel CGTALK is missing: a centralized location.

RobertoOrtiz
07-18-2005, 08:32 PM
I have an idea....

Be patient people.

-R

Rebeccak
07-18-2005, 09:03 PM
It's a good solution :) <chuckles quietly to herself> :p

~Rebeccak

jmBoekestein
07-18-2005, 09:23 PM
chuckles huh... :curious: does this mean a twist ending, like when they mention the family connection issue in movies(and other shows).

Rebeccak
07-18-2005, 11:37 PM
I can't reveal too much, but there are frogs...lots and lots of frogs...<snarfs, wheezes>

:eek:

~Rebeccak

Stahlberg
07-19-2005, 03:11 AM
I'm sorry I don't really understand this focus on tutorials and gathering them.
1. Exactly what tutorials? 2D digital only? There's not that many, you should be able to find all of them by spending a few minutes with the Search button. (and if you guys can't be arsed to do that well then do you really think you deserve the effort on our part to do it for you?)

2. Or do you mean all the 3d tutorials as well? Must be thousands of 3d tutorials out there, some of them very good but many very bad, written by amatuers or obsolete... do you really want all those in one single place, mixed up with the 2d? They're already in the best places possible, in their respective user forums. Look in the Maya forum for instance.

3. What you need more than tutorials anyway is practise.

4. Picking new Forum Leaders just to hand you a few 2d tuts in a more convenient package is not a practical plan.

Rebeccak
07-19-2005, 03:35 AM
Ah, Stahlberg, the voice of reason. How I've come to appreciate you :)

~Rebeccak

danielh68
07-19-2005, 04:07 AM
I'm sorry I don't really understand this focus on tutorials and gathering them.
1. Exactly what tutorials? 2D digital only? There's not that many, you should be able to find all of them by spending a few minutes with the Search button. (and if you guys can't be arsed to do that well then do you really think you deserve the effort on our part to do it for you?)

2. Or do you mean all the 3d tutorials as well? Must be thousands of 3d tutorials out there, some of them very good but many very bad, written by amatuers or obsolete... do you really want all those in one single place, mixed up with the 2d? They're already in the best places possible, in their respective user forums. Look in the Maya forum for instance.

3. What you need more than tutorials anyway is practise.

4. Picking new Forum Leaders just to hand you a few 2d tuts in a more convenient package is not a practical plan.

Again, I'm really surprise by such remarks. To be honest, I find it hard to believe you're a forum leader because your comments are incredibly unprofessional and insincere. Frankly, could you possibly be more pompous and condescending?

Your rhetoric is espousing an "us against them" mentality, when the least you could do as a leader is be level-headed, diplomatic and, dare I say, nice?

As far as I'm concerned, every non-leader who posted their ideas and suggestions, have been very thoughtful and constructive. One guy went so far as to volunteer his time and what does he get in return? Nothing...with the exception of a belittling monologue.

Like I said earlier, sure they can use the search button, but people are looking for ways to improve it, to make it more accessible and organized. They're are suggesting this stuff because they're diligent members that seek to better the CGTalk community. Sure, there are not many 2D tutorials now, but the problem is evident. So, why not nip it in the bud? Or, shall we wait until it's a unmanageable spaghetti factory?


Seriously, you need to work on you communication skills. Something as simple as "Thanks everyone for you suggestions, we really appreciate your concerns for the community. Unfortunately, we have a lot on our plate at this time and cannot attend to it. However, at some point, we will revisit your ideas and see what we can do. Thank you."

Peace,
Dan

Rebeccak
07-19-2005, 04:29 AM
Yeesh, I think you really ought to reconsider your remarks to Stahlerg ~ he's one of the most level-headed and nice folks around ~ I think your remarks are a bit unwarranted.

I've never seen a post by Stahlberg which I would consider 'pompous' or 'condescending'. In fact, considering his reputation in the industry, it's quite amazing that he takes the time to devote to (mostly) students on this site.

We're all trying our best to contribute to the community. I spend most of my waking hours these days monitoring the Anatomy forum and writing tutorials. I'm sure all of the other forum leaders do the same, in addition to holding down serious jobs and spending time with their families. No one's perfect, but we're all making a serious effort to pitch in and make CGTalk better, whatever our surface differences.

~Rebeccak

Lunatique
07-19-2005, 04:31 AM
danielh68 - Actually, Steven is one of the nicest people I've ever met and worked with in the CG industry, and he's known for being a Mr. Niceguy by those in the industry. If you think Steven is "incredibly unprofessional and insincere" and "pompous and condescending," then you probably haven't met a lot of people in the industry. Steven volunteers his time to come to cgtalk to help less experienced artists, guiding them with his decades of experience. Bashing him is not a good way to show appreciation. He could be spending time with his family instead of here helping others.

All the relevant tutorials are all collected in the sticky thread titled "Art Tutorials, Theories, and Book Recommendations" thread: http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=226083

Is there a reason why that sticky thread isn't good enough? Any good new tutorials posted by members at cgtalk, or discovered elsewhere will be added to that sticky thread. We try to have only the best tutorials, and skip the not so great ones. This is actually better than having a subforum dedicated to tutorials because 1) Having them in a single thread is much better than having lots of threads that move around between pages. 2) They are screened by experienced artists that know their stuff, and handpicked for their usefulness.

Rebeccak
07-19-2005, 04:39 AM
I agree that tutorials should remain in individual threads ~ imagine any of the tutorials which you come across all in one thread ~ people would be replying to different tutorials, it would be a mess!

Also, having one GIANT panacea of a tutorial sub-forum would engender the same pleas for ORDER ~ as in ~ how do I find what I want in the midst of all these tutorials?

I think that there is a definite problem that has multiple short-term solutions that need serious consideration and deliberation before they are implemented. Making quick, non-long lasting changes within the forums will only cause MORE confusion, not less, and we will all be getting the same angry and confused posts which complain about reorganization and restructuring.

CGTalk is overwhelming, there is a lot of information here, but, as with any big system, it takes time to learn to navigate. I'm the biggest technical noobie in the world, but I've managed over time to figure certain things out about this site.

Patience! :)

~Rebeccak

EDIT: Does anyone have any candles that we could pass around and wave? ;)

Lunatique
07-19-2005, 04:49 AM
I agree that tutorials should remain in individual threads ~ imagine any of the tutorials which you come across all in one thread ~ people would be replying to different tutorials, it would be a mess!


That's why Steven and I decided early on that the sticky thread would be a closed thread, and only Forum Leaders can go in it and add content. That way, no messy replies at all, and everything in the thread is pure gold.

Stahlberg
07-19-2005, 04:54 AM
Sure, there are not many 2D tutorials now, but the problem is evident.
How is the problem evident if there are not that many 2D tutorials now? Maybe you're seeing problems where there are none? You seem to be expecting some kind of explosive growth. I don't. But so what if that happens? We'd see them everywhere and they'd be easier to find than ever.

I repeat: you are making a mountain out of an anthill. Tutorials are cool and fun and sometimes we learn a new little button or whatever, but they're just not that important when it comes to learning to become an artist. You need solid longterm one-on-one instruction in the basics, not step-by-step how to paint a cloud in 5 minutes (to take one of my own as an example). I did that one only because I was asked for it, but I never thought for a moment it would make a better artist out of anyone. Not a noticeable difference anyway.

danielh68
07-19-2005, 05:02 AM
Actually, Steven is one of the nicest people I've ever met and worked with in the CG industry, and he's known for being a Mr. Niceguy by those in the industry. If you think Steven is "incredibly unprofessional and insincere" and "pompous and condescending," then you probably haven't met a lot of people in the industry. Steven volunteers his time to come to cgtalk to help less experienced artists, guiding them with his decades of experience. Bashing him is not a good way to show appreciation. He could be spending time with his family instead of here helping others.

Lunatique, I'm sure he's an amazing guy and a great talent...and I'm not being sarcastic. However, if helping others is saying stuff like:

-- but they're just not that important when it comes to learning to become an artist ((very motivating))

-- if you guys can't be arsed to do that well then do you really think you deserve the effort on our part to do it for you?

-- What you need more than tutorials anyway is practise

-- Picking new Forum Leaders just to hand you a few 2d tuts in a more convenient package is not a practical plan.

The tone is negative and condescending. He could be the President of the United States, I would not feel any differently.

then you probably haven't met a lot of people in the industry

It's a big industry. I work as a 2D artist. In any case, I don't know whether to take that comment as an ignorant assumption or a cheapshot.

Personally, I have never used a tutorial on this site, but I have looked through them and some are very good. My gripe, is not so much about the merits of the "Search Button" but more about people and attitudes. Two non- forum leaders asked simple yet pertinent questions about the tutorial section. They were proactive about it, yet the leaders were very reactive (with the exception of Roberto) in their responses.. Why? I don't know.

Well, it's late. I apologize if I offended you Steve. I just felt the little guys were not being respected or taken seriously. I don't engage in many discourses, but I'm sure this will be one of my last.

Thanks,
Dan

ashakarc
07-19-2005, 05:02 AM
I don't think there is a need to restructure, it is going to create more mess. In dealing with dynamic growing amount of information like these forums, one sticky thread at the top with an Index of Topics hyperlinked to the appropriate threads will ease up the pain of reading redundant talk. Just like the current stickies that index outside tutorials, but it will be for the inside material topics.

For instance, Rebecca's forum (http://www.cgtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=177)is incredibly busy and unintuitive, yet very rich and valuable in material and knowledge. The information there is really valuable to those who are concerned with, yet need to be at least manageable by the user, i.e. indexed in a sticky :) Remember, information is measured by the factor of time.

Stahlberg
07-19-2005, 08:36 AM
I'm not offended. I argue my point of view, that's all.


-- but they're just not that important when it comes to learning to become an artist ((very motivating))
Is it my job to motivate everyone now? What about them motivating themselves? What about them knowing the truth to avoid disappointment later?

-- if you guys can't be arsed to do that well then do you really think you deserve the effort on our part to do it for you?
Yes, that's a bit direct I admit. "IF" being the operative word here - IF someone is so incredibly lazy they don't want to Search... you say you've used the Search function many times, so obviously this doesn't apply to you personally.

-- What you need more than tutorials anyway is practise
Well, maybe I should have written "what WE need" rather than "you". But the point still stands. More practise is better than more tutorials. The problem is - try telling a beginner that. He just won't listen. That can start to get to you after a few years...

-- Picking new Forum Leaders just to hand you a few 2d tuts in a more convenient package is not a practical plan.
It isn't. I know all the other Forum Leaders and Admin agree too.

The tone is negative and condescending.

Yes the tone may be negative, but I certainly wasn't being ironic or sarcastic. I meant it, and still do. I believe it better to face the truth than to live under false pretenses. Today I didn't feel like sugarcoating that's all.

Two non- forum leaders asked simple yet pertinent questions about the tutorial section. They were proactive about it, yet the leaders were very reactive (with the exception of Roberto) in their responses.. Why? I don't know.

Was I 'reactive' because I didn't suggest a solution? But I did: my solution is for us to
1. shelve the plan indefinitely, for all the reasons I've already stated
2. to not be so concerned with tutorials in the first place, and buckle down to more practise (like in Roberto's or Rebecca's threads for instance, or by dowloading Loomis or attending art classes or forming your own sketch group or simply deciding to sketch for an hour every day). Just because you didn't like my answers doesn't mean they're no good.

Blikkie
07-19-2005, 08:58 AM
I for one wouldn't really care if the tutorials went to one specific forum or just in the Art Techniques and Theories, but I personally like to have tutorials in one spot, instead of just searching them, since stumbling on a new technique to do X can always come in handy (-: A good painting an eye tutorial refreshes my knowledge of what is needed for a good eye, even when meddling with 3D.

Rebeccak
07-19-2005, 10:15 AM
ashakarc wrote,

>For instance, Rebecca's forum (http://www.cgtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=177)is incredibly busy and unintuitive, yet very rich and valuable in material and knowledge. The information there is really valuable to those who are concerned with, yet need to be at least manageable by the user, i.e. indexed in a sticky...

My apologies for the business :) but there is a STICKY with internal links for the Anatomy forum: FORUM LINKS - FIND THREADS FAST! (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=258280)

I think I got a little happy with topics, but am trying to figure out a way to streamline them without cutting back on content ;)

~Rebeccak

jmBoekestein
07-19-2005, 03:27 PM
frogs...:surprised ...lotsa?

I can't wait...

ashakarc
07-19-2005, 04:56 PM
My apologies for the business http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/smile.gif but there is a STICKY with internal links for the Anatomy forum: FORUM LINKS - FIND THREADS FAST! (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=258280) No need to apologize, it's not your fault. The ' busyness ' is caused by the linear structure of the interface that does not leave much room for reorganizing. I appreciate the "Forum Link" thread, and yes this is what I meant. It would be at least more visible if it is at the top of all other threads, or just a different color and style for the title of the thread, as it is lost in the middle right now.

twistednoodle4000
07-20-2005, 04:25 PM
Stahlberg- I have to agree with danielh68 you might be a great person to those who know you but you are being very very rude to me. If you dont agree with my point of view you can disagree with me, give me a logical explanation and leave it at that.. your tone is harsh and your remarks are rude... the people who are saying otherwise either work for you or dont want to get in your bad side. ... also they dont want to move their forums.. so as long as you say NO they dont care how you say it.

I am a reasonable individual, I consider myself diplomatic and sincere. Since this is a site for the community I posted my opinion. I do not appreciate that you respond to me in such a manner. No matter how talented and succesful you are you should always remain polite.. especially as a Forum leader.

and to your question.. I think all 2D tutorials should be together.. the 3d should stay in the forums of the specific software.

It is not to HAND ME two tutorials because I am too lazy to search myself. It is to organize all 2D tutorials in one centralized location. Something that many other members have asked for. I am quite aware that I need practice, but tutorials are also very useful... also I dont think one tutorial will wham turn me into an great artist.. there are many steps towards that direction.. tutorials are just some of those steps...... oh and i do use the search button.. it does not always work though.. sorry but it is true.

It is apparent that this wont happen, I only wish someone had given me a good reason as to why not instead of talking down to me like I am some kind of idiot. I do not think I have been rude in anyway towards you in to recieve such treatment from you. A simple reasonable explanation could have been used less the negativness and condasending tone.

I am dropping the issues the tutorials can be anywhere, I dont care anymore. If I miss one I miss one.. I rather miss a great tutorial than have to deal with more rudeness.


Disenchanted,

Jacob

jmBoekestein
07-20-2005, 05:14 PM
Actually Mr. Stahlberg takes care to not overcrowd his theory thread with unnecessary repetition. I find that quite a good effort! :)

Imagine having 50 tutorials all about drawing a head and you have to make a tree...

well...


theory and practice would serve you better in this occasion and teach you insight into approaching the conundrums in front of you...in the long run it's better and the info is way more clear like this.

Lunatique
07-21-2005, 03:33 AM
OK, those of you that keep asking for a tutorial subforum--I want you guys to tell me why you don't feel that having a sticky thread that collects all the tutorial links in one place, without any unnecessary comments, and organized into proper categories, is not good enough. Have you guys actually looked at the sticky thread we keep mentioning? http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=226083

Can you guys tell me why a tutorial subforum is better than having a sticky that collects only the cream of the crop?

danielh68
07-21-2005, 03:47 AM
Starting on a new leaf: yes, it looks real good. Very cool.

A couple points though:

A. I did not see your new "Diagonal Lines" tutorial. Perhaps it's hasn't been updated yet. Nice tutorial, by the way.

B. I haven't checked all the links, but the first one I clicked was broken:

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=253711 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=253711)

Although, this could just be on my end.

Great work!

danielh68
07-21-2005, 03:50 AM
Actual I'm receiving a lot of broken links...again, this could just be on my end. Just thought you should know.

Lunatique
07-21-2005, 04:09 AM
danielh68 - Looks like it's on your end, since I can access it fine. You might want to try them at a different location--maybe at work, at home, at school..etc.

danielh68
07-21-2005, 05:07 AM
Yeah, it's on my end. I deleted my cache and that seemed to resolve everything. Again, nice work. Your efforts are appreciated.

Thanks,
Dan

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