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Mastahful
07-17-2005, 04:53 PM
Hi everyone, Iím currently working on an environment and thought id post to see what you guys think. Most of the modelling and some texturing is done, however the majority of the meshes still need cleaning up. The buildings are based on eastern European and Italian renaissance styles....

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/5457/town32ev.jpg (http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/5457/town32ev.jpg)
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/7761/town11aq.jpg (http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/7761/town11aq.jpg)
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/7394/row46ke.jpg (http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/7394/row46ke.jpg)
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/5473/row32gz.jpg (http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/5473/row32gz.jpg)

Mastahful
07-17-2005, 04:56 PM
This is another of the finished models.

http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/3752/churchfinal13kk.jpg (http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/3752/churchfinal13kk.jpg)
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/8397/churchfinal22bg.jpg (http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/3752/churchfinal13kk.jpg)
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/7144/churchfinal35cs.jpg (http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/7144/churchfinal35cs.jpg)
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/1420/churchfinalst9ev.jpg (http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/1420/churchfinalst9ev.jpg)

TwitchyHamster
07-17-2005, 05:26 PM
Well I think they look quite spiffy. I feel that the second model might be a little too "grey," perhaps a little more colour variation in the stonework would make it really be perfect.

-Chai

hnbmilk
07-17-2005, 05:56 PM
wow. Those look very nice :) Keep up the great work

cay030
07-17-2005, 06:57 PM
Mastahful,

First off great idea and great job man !!. This looks a big city your modeling that would rock. Anyway i think both of the models look great and the textures on the first building are great, do you have bumps or normals for that one also ?? , and then on your church like building i don't know if it's the color of the blue area or if it doesn't look right or weird,maybe it's my monitor ?? LOL. Well again models look great, i always like looking at the Enivronments people work on so i know what people are modeling or what there thinking of. As an Environment Artist my self i'm trying to get better and model more complex models i need to do a big building or city like yourself. Well god job again , Peace

Chris Youngblood
http://www.cyoungblood.com

AdamAtomic
07-17-2005, 07:07 PM
Wow! the models are absolutely beautiful, that is inspiring stuff! The textures look a little bit muddy to me, just in general - it might be the image compression though. A lot of people I know use imageshack for image hosting, you might be able to try that if you want to upload higher quality pics? Great work!

Mastahful
07-17-2005, 07:17 PM
Thanks for the replies guys. None of the models use bump or any other type of mapping, just a texture, as for the blue looking weird, im not sure...maybe its because its a low quality JPG, or maybe it is your monitor :D

Mastahful
07-17-2005, 07:28 PM
Thanks. Yeah ill definitely give imageshack a try, the pics i posted are pretty low in quality. Im working on getting an online portfolio set up, in the mean time im using my MSN Space as a temp place for some of my work... http://spaces.msn.com/members/Pavsfolio

rosch
07-17-2005, 07:42 PM
Hey, I like the look very much. especially the textured house-row. Btw, it looks nice on my monitor :D . I could imagine some nice WWII tanks roling down those streets ...

Can't wait for new pics.

BoBo-the-seal
07-18-2005, 12:25 AM
very nice work!

- BoBo

Mastahful
07-18-2005, 12:37 AM
lol, I might be tempted to throw in a burned out tank! Iím going for an abandoned look, thereís a few ruined buildings and an abandoned factory area across a rail track from the town, ill post some new renders soon.

membreno-david
07-18-2005, 06:00 AM
where do you get your textures? hand paint them?

Mastahful
07-18-2005, 09:06 AM
The textures are created in photoshop from photographs, some taken by myself and from online recources.

Mastahful
07-18-2005, 12:56 PM
Ok, checked out fileshack so heres a new render.





http://img330.imageshack.us/img330/9446/ren116ro.jpg (http://img330.imageshack.us/img330/9446/ren116ro.jpg)

simps
07-18-2005, 02:28 PM
Really nice work. Can you post your texture flats? What size textures and how many are you using?

Mastahful
07-18-2005, 03:13 PM
Each building has its own texture sheet, and some of the models share the same sheet. The church has 2 texture sheets. When i began this project i wanted to have it running in the Unreal engine so my texture sizes range from 512x512 through to a few at 2048x2048. At the moment im being tempted by the HL2 engine, I ran tests in both but it looks alot nicer in Source.

Heres the main sheet for the church, ill post more soon.

http://img315.imageshack.us/img315/1343/chsheet12on.th.jpg (http://img315.imageshack.us/img315/1343/chsheet12on.jpg)

~SammaeL~
07-18-2005, 03:43 PM
Fantastic work , i dontīs word. :bounce:

simps
07-18-2005, 04:26 PM
nice work, :thumbsup:

RO
07-18-2005, 04:33 PM
I like it, I wonder how it looks up close though. What type of game you making this for? if it is fps that method of texturing will make it really hard to keep good detail up close. That is the only thing I see. Besides that it looks really cool.

LordDubu
07-18-2005, 04:37 PM
Very very nice. This would look good as a cityscape for a 3rd person zombie game.

kaylon
07-18-2005, 06:36 PM
These are lovely models..very nice indeed.

My only concern would be your texture format. You are treating these models as if they where a character, they are not they are buildings :). Doing "sheets" as you have for building is a bad idea for later on in development of other Environmental assests. You can't get pixel density consistancy across a level and the actual detail of the textures is so lo-res that if you get to close all you see are pixels and no detail at all.

These may look good as a render but I'm sure you will find that once running around a city textured in this way they will start looking not much more detailed the Quake I ...

The best thing to do is to create texture Sets for your building... Individual 256x256 etc that tile. You can do sets that form larger details like the murals of your church, but break it up into sets of individual textures. It's far more efficent for the engine and allows for greater re-usability of all the textures.

K

AdamAtomic
07-18-2005, 06:48 PM
Kaylon - I think a mix of the two is considered the way to go these days. Many new game engines actually do use sheets like these, PGR3 for Xbox360 uses 1024x1024 sheets for each building and it looks photoreal, its pretty amazing. I am sure for things like sidewalks and roads and the less-detailed sides of the buildings they do use tiles as well. Tiling is getting harder as people expect more and more finished detail around edges and things, I think it will be interesting to see if procedural textures like edge wear and edge dirt start to grow in popularity in response to this...

Mastahful
07-18-2005, 07:51 PM
Thatís exactly right Adam. Using sheets provides allot more control when texturing, Iím going to use tiling textures for the pavements and distant meshes. As for up close detail, the environment is intended for a 3rd person game but because the textures are 1024x1024, and some even 2048, they look fine even in 1st person, ill post some in engine screens at some point.

RO
07-18-2005, 08:13 PM
For a 3rd person that is fine :)

The other question is about repeatable objects. Are you using repeatable objects with different skins? Main reason is that if your going to use this like this in UT2K4 it is going to make the engine work a good bit. How many 2048x2048 textures do you have? I guess considering your using it on big objects you can use a bit but also that will make it hard to keep texture memory downÖ Poly wise I do not think it will be too much of a problem but texture mem is what is worrying me and the idea of it not being repeatable objects. Also For such simple shapes the main buildings could be done in BSP with a texture placed.

This is kind of how I would go at it in UnrealEd.

-Build the the bsp structure

]Construct in a 3D program[

-trims corner and straight

-Windows

-shutters

-roof dťcor

-arch dťcor

-pillars

-anything else you might need

Many of the top models could all be in a single 2048x2048 these objects are duplicated many times so it would be using the same textures instead of the engine going and doing a check on model and texture every time you see it.

It would look the same at the end just with lower resources.

Source engine works about the same also. The biggest problem is that with source you can not scale modelsÖ so if you want to have some details to look a bit different you can scale them differently in the Unreal Engine.

Looks great but I can see this being a problem when it comes to resources. I make a basic rule not to have a lot of 2048x2048 textures in my levels. Since Those usally cause more problems.

Mastahful
07-18-2005, 08:37 PM
I agree mate. I only have a couple 2048x2048 textures, and I am repeating objects with different skins. Because the environment is quite large, Iím even repeating objects with the same textures in different places.

As for the engine, the one annoying thing iv found with Source is the physics meshes, especially for things like arches, a real pain.

kaylon
07-18-2005, 10:44 PM
I am currently an Environmental artist working on an Xbox 360 title and we could not even dream of using 2048's :) .. don't wanna burst anyones bubble or anything but you still have to work within a pretty tight texture budget...sure you can through poly's at the Xbox 360 and it will love it...(for the most part) but textures are still a prob and always will be. Hell we are even using 32x32 still along with our 256's to try and fit our stuff into memory.

We are using a shader technology to battle our way through some of the prob's we have encountered. We have some very talented GFX coders ( one of which wrote Deep UV and Deep Paint) who have custom written a new multi layer DX9 shader that is truly stunning to see. It's basicaly the only way to compete now..gotta keep pushing the edge.

K.

Mastahful
07-19-2005, 12:46 AM
I suppose im kinda taking advantage of the fact that im only making one environment, not a whole game, in which case its not really an issue, and 2048s are perfectly acceptable in the Unreal engine as specified on the UDN. If i was working on anything bigger i wouldnít dream of it.

Mastahful
07-26-2005, 10:47 PM
I have updated the first set of pics to some hi res versions, ill have some new pics soon..

Mastahful
07-27-2005, 12:29 AM
Ok, hereís a render of a medieval crane on the industrial side of the environment, the texture still needs some work, but iv got other things to worry about at the mo...


http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/9198/zurawnew28sq.jpg (http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/9198/zurawnew28sq.jpg)



This is a broken bridge from the environment, still need to texture it....im kinda putting it off!


http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/1360/bridge12px.jpg (http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/1360/bridge12px.jpg)


http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/3646/bridge28na.jpg (http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/3646/bridge28na.jpg)

Por@szek
07-27-2005, 07:34 AM
Is this a crane in the Gdansk (city of poland) near the Motlawa river?? Its so similar. Really nice work in that, and nice destruction on the bridge. The other side of bridge should be also destructed a bit, couse its heavy so the weigh of it should destroy it a bit.

Mastahful
07-27-2005, 10:39 AM
Thanks, it sure is, the Zuraw in Gdansk was my reference, iv been wanting to model it for a while, and finally found a place for it in this new project. Cheers for the suggestion, ill bend the other side a bit, so it looks under strain.

gasmask
07-27-2005, 11:14 PM
im also working on a next gen title, its totally exceptable to use 1024's and 2048's in half life 2, all the textures were 1024 and higher. its all in how efficient you are, plus it makes things easier if you model you textures. more realistic that way

zsurM
07-28-2005, 07:57 AM
Great stuff here. The colors and design of buildings really makes me want to see this in a game and can't wait to see more of it.

Quick question though, how are you lighting your models? Is it some sort of GI or are the textures self illuminating?

Mastahful
07-28-2005, 05:41 PM
Thanks....I haven't set any lighting up yet, at the mo its just a max skylight.

membreno-david
07-28-2005, 09:17 PM
How do you set up your lighting for that kind of environment?

Mastahful
07-28-2005, 10:41 PM
Just finished texturing a section of the factory area, so here it is....please keep the crits coming...

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/7788/fac25zg.jpg (http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/7788/fac25zg.jpg)


membreno_david: I havenít really thought about lighting in much detail, I have experimented a bit, but ill deal with it once I have finished the bulk of the texturing.

Headless
07-28-2005, 11:08 PM
Great stuff. Nice clean geometry and good texture work.

I have to agree that the church looks a little bland, but it's still good work, and everything else is pretty flawless. Unless you're going to bake your lighting it'd be nice to see what the buildings look like with self-illumination, cause at the moment it looks like you're using GI and obviously that's going to add alot.

Mastahful
07-28-2005, 11:29 PM
I am planning on baking lights, but I will post some non GI renders at some point if I get the chance....You're right about the church, its based on a pretty bland reference, but Iíll try work some more detail into it, if I have the time.

WesleyTack
07-29-2005, 12:40 AM
i don't think you need to bake in lights, looks hot as it is, and most current game engines will render the shadows for you when you compile the map/envoirnment. Very nice texture work and great eye for detail! the only crit i would have is the top roof of the building, the beam are in between the outer one's, they usually are placed on top of them, pushing the whole structure downwards, now they will push the outer beams sideways outside, make the structure a lot more unstable.

Mastahful
07-29-2005, 05:53 AM
Finished off a litle bit more, so heres another update.....(thanks simon, fixed the beam...)

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/5337/fac46nv.jpg (http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/5337/fac46nv.jpg)

RO
07-29-2005, 05:58 AM
I do not like the new brick building it looks so simple compared to the other. The fact that it has not a whole lot of small details makes it look very plain and unrealistic. Things you could add are wiring, water pipes(you know the ones that make sure the water that collects on the roof goes down, God it is late), small lights close to door ways etc.


Sorry did an edit Do not take the lower in a bad way just some random info mostly.

Edit: You know lots of these buildings look like bsp done structures since it is so simple. Shame that if this was brought in engine it would have to be redone from ground up. Or pay the price of using bsp under the models. I know your not doing it for an engine but think about it most of these models would be done in bsp form and pretty much these models could be done in mins in a editor. Not saying it looks bad just a tad of info. The whole project looks great in scenes it is mostly in the smaller details.

Mastahful
07-29-2005, 06:04 AM
You are very right, im currently knocking out a load of little props like drain pipes and lights which ill hang off the building....plus some other things, ill update after some sleep...:thumbsup:

Por@szek
07-29-2005, 02:30 PM
Very cool textures, they are inspiring me. Can I please a wireframe and flat texture, couse I'm interesting how You unwarp it and how many textures are You using. Is it a skylight with skyline??
Cool models, It would be nice to see all the scene. You are preparing demo reel (sorry I dont write this post above, too hot in here and I'm too lazy) or for some game??
enough questions;) But I'll watch this thread with a pleasure.

Take care.

Mastahful
07-31-2005, 03:58 AM
Ok, I knocked out some smaller props to make the box building more interesting...Iím planning to do more but only when iv finished texturing the whole envo....Also taking good advice I edited the mesh a little....not sure if ill keep it, but please tell me what you think....Unfortunately I donít have the time to make it perfect, I have to move on to another part of the environment.

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/9505/fac66wm.jpg (http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/9505/fac66wm.jpg)


Por@szek: This is mainly portfolio work, but Iím using some of it as part of my final project for my MA...(only 4 weeks to go! :eek: )....ill post some wires and sheets when i have time...

PhilOsirus
07-31-2005, 05:11 AM
Terrific work! I like the details you added to the cubic building. I must say that at first when I saw the gray buildings I thought it would be more fantasy-ish in appearance, but still this is very strong texturing and modeling. Good job!:)

kaylon
07-31-2005, 03:09 PM
Sorry for preaching about textures...and I dont mean to offend or burst anyone bubbles...but the textures are not original.


I will admit they are fine models...but people must not get so excited about the textures. These are all from the Marlin Studio CD collections...which I will admit to having the CD's myself and I do use them as they are a very good resource to have.

Here are 2 samples from the CD's..that Mastahful has used.

http://s1.simpload.com/073142ece73300540.jpg



http://s1.simpload.com/073142ece73fb28d1.jpg





I'm not trying to spoil anything or put anyone down as these models are excellent...but a large amount of comments in this thread are wowing at the quality of the texture work..and... I though credit where credit is due.

K.

RO
07-31-2005, 03:15 PM
I was wondering were I saw those textures before. I used them on a mod like 2 years ago but when I saw these I could not remember. I knew it was not his from the start that is why I was concentrating more on the build and processes.

The more and more I see games I can track were textures came from. GTA2 used tons of free resource textures on the net. Many games use them. I tend to try to either modify them a lot or make my own with some of my own photo taken resources. It is not bad to use them since companies use them but the company people will know right out that you took a short cut.... Depending on the company that could be good or bad.

kaylon
07-31-2005, 03:32 PM
Indeed ... I worked on an Unreal UT Based game 3 years ago and we used these as we only had 10 months to finish the game...that was a hellish deadline :).

People state that games are starting to look the same...and this is part of the reason, so many dev companies that are doing "real" life settings etc are using all the same texture reasourses...and that can only lead to one thing...the games will look the same.

I've been in the industry for over 10 years and I'm so happy to be working on a game that has some stye to it. We do not use photos for our materials, everything has been hand painted. Sure we have cut up photos..and even some of the textures from Marlin as a base...or as edited overlays to add noise and "fake" detail, but there is not a single texture that we have produced that is not hand painted.

GTA3 etc is one of the worse for this.."RANT INCOMING!!" and the new Xbox360 Gotham 3 ... it uses em all, and it makes me mad..actually mad when I see reports on how "photorealistic" it is and how cool and funky and god like the dev team are....well sod em..it's photorealistic cos they have used a photo you idot! ... and there is not a lot of skill or talent required to slap a photo onto a poly. "RANT OVER"

Sorry for that...

K.

I'll say agin .. the models are superb ... :) ... very nice Mastahful.

kaisasose
07-31-2005, 04:06 PM
Sorry for preaching about textures...and I dont mean to offend or burst anyone bubbles...but the textures are not original.



I'm trying to understand the point of this post but I can't get my head round it. Care to elucidate? As far as I gather you're trying to give "credit where credit is due?"

I'm not much of an Env artist however I appreciate that even though Mastahful used Marlin, he did state he used online resources on the first page. I do think there is skill involved in sifting through CDs finding the exact one to use for each building and then making it look good.

I own Marlin CDs and I'm trying to diversify my skill set by maybe making a few envs and the like for my next project. And if I spend "X" amount of hours going through CDs adding noise, grime, and some variation just to get that realistic look and then have a seasoned pro coming along saying that... boy would that burst my bubble! :scream:

Mastahful
07-31-2005, 04:33 PM
Thatís right, I used marlin for some of the early models, mostly experimenting and i loved the look so I stuck to them...however since the first few models iv been using allot more of my own photos and really working them in Photoshop mainly using them as a base.....It was an industry professional who introduced me to marlin in the first place, explaining it was common practice in the industry, so I really didnít see it as a problem, especially when time is a big issue.

kaylon
07-31-2005, 04:38 PM
I'm sorry all..I guess I get a bit flustered when seeing work like this ... Game art is becoming a dying art ...so many teams now are being forced to use Photo resources to compete and I feel that does not help the industry. People should use there given talents more and there artistic abilities. Producers should be braver and allow more creative games to be made.


In the last 20 mins I did this. Using Marlin Textures...and appart from a couple of things everything has one huge Box map...

http://s1.simpload.com/073142ecff914f52d.jpg


...now I'ts not as good as the work posted here, as I have said Mastahful's work is very very good stuff and has a huge amount of quality in it. And I'm not intending this as a dig at him or his work...

I'd just like to see some originality somewhere...some imagination...something new...

K.

kaisasose
07-31-2005, 04:42 PM
Then, my good man, I suggest you (a) Make some, post it up, and (b) fire up a new thread citing these frustrations. This is Cgtalk afterall. :)

kaylon
07-31-2005, 04:48 PM
:) ..


I am looking forward to seeing how this progresses..the buildings and architecture are superb, and I'm excited to see actual screenshots at some point (soon hopefully :) )... please keep going Mastahful :).

k.

P.s. I shall leave my frustrations outside from now on :)... sorry again.

Mastahful
07-31-2005, 04:49 PM
I know what your saying and I suppose agree with you on some level....however the stuff Iím currently working on, like the latest renders, have manly photos as bases, with allot of details painted on over several layers, not just a ready photo slapped on a model.

Matt
07-31-2005, 06:45 PM
Mastahful, I'm afraid you're not thinking low poly enough when you model. I hope this illustration I've made will help you.

In your version in the small area I fixed I counted 143 triangles. Actually, it's higher than 143 because I didn't count the overhanging polygons on a lot of objects... The bridge, for example. I was able in a few minutes to get that down to 47 triangles while retaining the same silhouette.

http://members.cox.net/anticsensue/lowpolygdansk.jpg

It looks like you're trying to think in quads too much, possibly for the sake of triangle stripping, however when we're working this low, it often doesn't make a world of difference... Unless you're making an entire city with tens of thousands of structures all connected in a single mesh that is perfectly stripped and the engine and GPU understand triangle stripping.

You should go back and reduce the scene. If you are as successful as I was (In Photoshop, albeit) you could reduce the scene to ⅓ it's polygonal density. That means you'd free up a tremendous amount of polygons in your budget that you could then use to add other details.

Mastahful
07-31-2005, 07:08 PM
Thanks man, ill definitely clean up...I think I mentioned in one of my earlier posts I still have a lot of cleaning up to do. The wire youíre referring to Iíve already stripped down since the post, but ill post the new version soon so you can have a look as Iím not the best at ultra optimizing...

WesleyTack
07-31-2005, 07:27 PM
there are lots of CD's with textures on it for sale, that's why people buy them.. to use the textures on them in their works. I myself was planning to buy the 15 3Dtotal CD's, but if i ever post an image with something textured from those CD's, and people say "hey, it's fake, he used 3Dtotal textures" then why should i bother buying them ?
And the latest work from Mastahful, the Silo Buildings are clearly made from scratch by him, so he has evolved from his older work, and that's what learning is all about, looking/learning/practising and improving your workflow/style.

Back on the things at hand, i really love the details you added to the left building, it's looking a lot better!
i would still add some spirals on top of the silo's and an elevator on the side of the right building, would look awesome (we work for mill-factorys and all construction stuff, so i kinda know what goes and doesn't go on building like these) and elevators and spirals would be kickass :p

can't wait for more!


*edit*
since i don't knopw the english terms of a spiral and other stuff i made a fast sketch...
green = below ground. I think the sketch speaks for itself

http://www.wesleytack.com/upload/factory.jpg

itsallgoode9
07-31-2005, 07:55 PM
Kaylon, I agree with some of your points, but overall, if the purpose is to make the most realistic looking image possible, what's the point of not using photo texture since it is the real thing? as for comments on this piece, I like the style of your work so far. Nice gritty stuff.

euclidius
08-01-2005, 08:47 AM
Wow nice work man, I really like this style of architecture you picked out , now I'm really inspired, thanks for posting your work here :] btw are you going to use any of your enviroments in a game engine? perhaps Unreal3 engine hehe, just wonderin.

BakerCo
08-01-2005, 03:34 PM
I am loving this man keep it coming!!


got a question for ya, what program ya using and how did you render those images I am diggin the dog mess out of it. Excellent Work!!


Lost...

gasmask
08-06-2005, 01:29 AM
u could also do things the way valve does them and model ur textures that way you have complete control over lighting and tiling and content.

Por@szek
08-06-2005, 02:54 AM
Hey man, Im searching for some updates ....

You know I like this, and the new buildings look better for me then this from forst side. For me there was a clean photo here You work a bit more on them. I like the style You made it in, and its really inspiring to me.

Keep it up, I hope You finish this on deadline.

Take care.

Mastahful
08-06-2005, 10:58 AM
Hey guys, sorry for the lack of update, i will soon, just trying to get alot of things done at the moment...

gasmask
08-06-2005, 07:11 PM
btw do you break?

Mastahful
08-06-2005, 09:25 PM
haha i sure do, well, havent for the past 4 months because iv been so busy with work, but yeah, have been for 4 years.

Lee3dee
08-07-2005, 06:22 AM
just wanted to say really great work :D. makes me want to start an enviroment project i've been thinking about for ages. hehe

Mastahful
08-07-2005, 06:33 PM
Its been a few days but here's a small update...still need to touch up on alot of things, mainly knock out more small props....

have you guys got any ideas on props i could do?

http://img309.imageshack.us/img309/4245/fac96sd.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img323.imageshack.us/img323/9490/fac72fq.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img323.imageshack.us/img323/8969/fac80ms.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

WesleyTack
08-07-2005, 06:43 PM
wow wow wow wow wow !!
just amazing atmosphere, and lots of details already
just amazing!
props..? i don't know machinary perhaps ? engine parts? a pickup truck with a flat tire and some material in the back? with a popped hood ?
keep up the excelent work!

Saramago
08-07-2005, 07:37 PM
Awsome stuff. The texture resolution look very high and the tree needs some work but this is great stuff. Get some ground textures sorted out it will really pull it all together.
edit
possibly some of the forms a bit blocky/linear which sits slightly awkwardly with the texture detail but I guess the richness of the enviroments mostly disguises it.

kaylon
08-07-2005, 09:31 PM
These are looking sweet :) ... what you will need all over, and especially were your buildings meet the ground is scrub flats ... just simple flat polys with a nice dead grass texture popping up in random places..will add even more life to it. Do a few crusaform X shapped ones also.


I'd be tempted to maybe add in the odd alpha flats of wall vegatation also...some ivy etc..not a lot..just a bit..just to add a tiny bit of organics to the heavy industrial settings...

K.

Mastahful
08-07-2005, 09:33 PM
Yeah, the tree still needs work, and yeah the forms are blocky, but thatís because Iím trying to knock out quite a lot of buildings in a pretty small time frame, at the same time keeping the environment low poly....Iím trying to break the blockyness up with smaller models, Iím glad you think its working.

Mastahful
08-07-2005, 09:40 PM
Thanks for the tip K. Yeah ill definitely do that, iv been experimenting a bit with a climbing ivy alpha...but yeah grass popping up everywhere....ill do it when ever I get round to finishing the ground...iv been putting it off for ages!

kaylon
08-07-2005, 09:43 PM
Ground work is always the pain....and road snapping verts is the worse.... I just spent 2 days last week doing nothing but snapping terrain verts to our road network...oh the glamour of the games industry :) ....


K.

Mastahful
08-07-2005, 09:44 PM
haha, thatís exactly why iv been putting it off!

mindrot
08-07-2005, 10:39 PM
Quality work :thumbsup:

Extase
08-08-2005, 07:49 AM
great work! i would love to see some more vegetation e.g. high gras which is growing between the buildings

Blackgeni
08-11-2005, 09:49 AM
All these big models have one texture. How does the engine know wich part of the texture is for stone and wich part is glass, because there needs to be a difference in decals

Mastahful
08-11-2005, 04:25 PM
Extase: Thanks, more vegetation coming soon, including high grass, just need to finish up on other parts of the environment...

Blackgeni: Iím not quite sure what you mean, the engine knows which textures to use by material IDs assigned in Max to the various models...

more updates coming in a few days, I should have the whole thing done in a week or two, hopefully...still shed loads to do!

WHW
08-11-2005, 09:43 PM
I was reading earlier where kaylon says loads of games are using the same textures. I was playing Vampire:Bloodlines ages ago and noticed a cobbled floor with cigarette butts which I found in the Marlin CDs. Sheesh, you'd think they would've removed the cigarette butts ;)

Mastahful, your buildings are looking good and the props definitely help to break up the shilouette of each one - I particularly like the one with the tree and the battered red car.

How many of these do you have planned as it looks like you're making a complete city!

gasmask
08-12-2005, 02:38 AM
good progress man, i like it, yeah i used to break for many years but stopped for a few years now, i used to break with massive monkeys, well i would practice with them, i wasnt with their crew, im sure u have heard of them, they were world champions last year or the year before, from here in seattle, lookin forward to more updates

Geronimous
08-13-2005, 02:42 AM
May I ask... where does one get these 'Marlin' textures? They are phenominal

Mastahful
08-13-2005, 09:41 AM
Marlin where mainly used for the stuff on the first page of this thread, but you can get them from http://www.marlinstudios.com/.

PhilOsirus
08-13-2005, 02:41 PM
You can use alphas for a lot of things, such as manholes, oil stains, water puddles, and depending on whether or not there is physics in the game you can add stuff like dead leaves, newspapers, cracks in the walls, bullet holes, etc. Another good trick is to make one alpha oil stain, and just scale it differently so you end up with a lot of different looking oil stains with just one texture.

I bet you knew that;)

Mastahful
08-13-2005, 10:49 PM
Here are 2 new renders, iv just been playing with ground and sky textures.....since Iím very quickly running out of time, unfortunately I cant really spend too much on adding small details....but once the project is handed in ill definitely carry on making it perfect!........

Anyway, I think the sky might be a bit to bright/colourful for the dark nature of the place...or maybe its a good contrast? what do you guys think?


http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/3717/train45xl.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/9800/fac100fd.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

ScudzAlmighty
08-14-2005, 12:07 AM
the sky right now is sort of giving it this creepy, calm before the storm feeling, which is really cool, but the shadows seem a little dark for it. maybe more of a gray, cloudy sky?

it's awesome though:thumbsup:

PhilOsirus
08-14-2005, 12:47 AM
I think the sky's lighting does not match the scene (or vice-versa, basically, it's very contrasted and light seems to be coming from a different direction than the sun's). Also, I'm getting a weird scale issue now, mainly in the second picture. Maybe it's the car and the grass, but compared to the crumbled part to the left of the car it seems the scale of this scene is wrong, not sure tho, might be an illusion.

Keep it up!

Jay-Pea
08-14-2005, 01:17 AM
Hi Pav! JP here.

How is crunch going, mate? Sweating yet? Two weeks to go... As for the sky, I don't think it really matters at this stage. Right now I would have thought all you needed was something none too outlandish, so yeah, it looks as it should.

Will it be in engine in its final form, or are you opting for a pre-rendered vid? I take it you've already made this decision by now. (... that's not Rolands junkyard car is it? ...My eyesight must be going...)

Anyway, it all looks great, man. As to any more objects to be built, I would say only focus on those which emphasise the absence of people, and only that. There is no time now for making things pretty. It looks good enough as it is.

Speak to you soon.

JP

glynnsmith
08-14-2005, 02:42 AM
Also, I'm getting a weird scale issue now, mainly in the second picture. Maybe it's the car and the grass, but compared to the crumbled part to the left of the car it seems the scale of this scene is wrong, not sure tho, might be an illusion.


I see this too. Maybe if you moved the car back towards the grey building in the rear left, this would fix it.

Maybe tone down the sky to a greyer / stormier colour to match the lighting of the scene.

I've been watching this thread since you started it. Outstanding work; really inspiring stuff. Keep it up!

G

Mastahful
08-14-2005, 07:28 AM
I think the problem is that I havenít lit the scene yet, its still GI, once I get some lights in there it should look better, as for the car I think it might be scale rather than illusion, ill look into it.



Edit: JP, hey man, your post only just showed up...guess it was waiting to be moderated...lol no its not Rolandís junk-yard car, its that mini I modelled months ago...im glad youíve registered, guess we'll be seeing some of your awesome work soon!:bounce:

tntcheats
08-14-2005, 09:43 AM
Excellent environment, I love it.

Make the sky look as polluted as you can.
After all, look at the building. Imagine what the pollution it had to be putting out to get that dark and scuzzy would do to the air around it, and with a factory, it's usually in an industrial district, so there's more than one. Oh, and it'd add to the creepy feel.

PS love that car in there, but were I you, I'd put claw marks on the paint :D

Mastahful
08-14-2005, 09:48 AM
Thanks for the suggestion, right now Iím working on the lighting and its starting too look better....Iím not sure the sky would be polluted since the area has been abandoned for a long time....but ill definitely give it a try, always up for checking out different ideas!

Mastahful
08-14-2005, 12:44 PM
Ok iv set up some basic lighting, and sligtly grayed up the sky, let me know what you think.

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/7899/train68wb.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/6391/fac130gw.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

mindrot
08-14-2005, 12:49 PM
Damn.... this looks fantastic. Love the atmosphere. Reminds me a bit of some of the Halflife 2 levels.

Stefander
08-14-2005, 01:19 PM
This is just great... No other words for it. :thumbsup:

How many polys are you at?

morphine
08-14-2005, 01:36 PM
Looking really great.
The last update added a lot to the atmosphere.

I was thinking, is there any way to make it look more humid? I really don't know how to do it, but I think it'd enhance the scene a lot.
Good job.

xX_eXiGe_Xx
08-14-2005, 02:18 PM
That is great work! You can export the map (from 3dsmax or xsi or what ever) to hl2! I bet it would look very great in there too :bounce: .
If you know hl2 mapping (with hammer-editor), then polygon made windows are big mistake, but not if you only make 1 -3 models. From the first post i noticed the hl2 feeling :applause: .

Keep up with it, and i saw the mod of yours a very long time ago; i thought it was awsome, and still i do :D .

luciferous
08-15-2005, 11:24 PM
Looks damn sweet, wouldnt mind having a run around in there, good luck on handing this project in, what are you doing your MA in anyways?

Gonna keep an eye on this one....

tntcheats
08-16-2005, 06:57 AM
I'm not sure if H2 has anything that can make fog and render it quick and well, but having a low-hanging fog in this level would be cool.

Try creating a few puddles and dark spots on the ground, to add to the moist look. As right now it looks very dry. Maybe make the ground a tad darker.

Oh, and I think it'd be cool if you made a big crack going up the silo (uhhhh big tube thing--I'm having a brain fart) if just as a texture thing.

amoeba
08-16-2005, 04:39 PM
I have to agree with Kaylon, It looks fine, but as already mentioned you might want to look at the size of your texture maps, as we still have to use very small textures. It is also beneficial to model in a way that the mesh can be well tri-stripped. Looking at your mesh (1st posting) there are a lot of areas that could be deleted, replacing these details on your texture will help it run smooooth

Mastahful
08-16-2005, 09:55 PM
Thanks for the great replies guys....ill post some more soon...

Stefander: The whole environment is around the 170,000 mark.

morphine: Interesting idea...I might play around with some low lying fog....

xX_eXiGe_Xx: yeah iv had parts running in hammer, iv constructed the environment in a way that will be quick and easy for engine import.

luciferous: thanks, its an MA in Digital Games.

tntcheats: yeah ill try out your ides, but once iv handed my project in...Ill work them in after for my show reel.

amoeba: I know what you mean but I am not working to a console spec. I started this project to the spec of the Unreal 2004 PC engine, which has almost all textures at 1024x1024, with some at 2048x2048. I still need to clean some meshes up, but since my first post I have done loads of optimizing so I donít think itís still a problem.

amoeba
08-17-2005, 11:33 PM
The first game I worked on was for the PC using small textures. If you want to work in the industry it will be beneficial to you to create very low ploy models with limited texture sizes. While the next gení consoles can push more polys around you may need to work on a title for the DS for example.

Mastahful
08-17-2005, 11:36 PM
Yeah, I totally agree, however for this project I had to specifically stick to the spec of a chosen engine, which in this case was UT 2004. Besides if need be the textures can always be scaled down.

TwitchyHamster
08-18-2005, 12:11 AM
Looking great!!

-Twitchy

kOmoo
08-18-2005, 06:10 AM
Really great work,:applause: I love the dirt texture, really relistics, the trian on the other hand don'st really look that great and little primative.

NeOmega
08-18-2005, 06:55 AM
Wow, truly something else. I am very impressed by the level of detail in the lack of polygons.

Stefander
08-18-2005, 04:42 PM
Can we see some new shaded/wireframe shots to see the goodness behind the shots? I'd love to see what you did to the place :)

spm
08-19-2005, 04:58 PM
impressive. five stars from me...

oxyg3n
08-24-2005, 03:37 AM
Hello

I have never looked in the game art forum before and I just stumbled across this work. I wanted to say I think it look really nice. I like the sky how it is. Nice job on the modeling.

oxyg3n
08-24-2005, 03:37 AM
Hello

I have never looked in the game art forum before and I just stumbled across this work. I wanted to say I think it look really nice. I like the sky how it is. Nice job on the modeling.

Mastahful
08-26-2005, 10:31 PM
Hi everyone,

Finally finished the project in terms of the MA, but still have quite a lot of work left to do on it. Iím gonna spend the next few weeks on making it perfect, plus working on my showreel.. Ill post updates of both the finished environment and some stuff from the reel soon.

WesleyTack
08-26-2005, 10:35 PM
I for one, can't wait ! :)

LiquidMetal
08-26-2005, 10:35 PM
Very cool.I also like your icon mastahful!

G0st
08-29-2005, 09:43 PM
that is looking very nice, one thing i would add is a nice statue in the courtyard, maybe a horse up on is heinglegs with a soldier on his back pointing his sword forward?

G0st

kikuio
08-30-2005, 02:48 AM
excellent~ :-)

the rookie
08-30-2005, 06:24 PM
Love the last shot (especially the sky change) very nice design and composition on it, one day the rookie will do it :D!!

overcontrast
08-31-2005, 10:55 PM
Colossal work there mate!! i really like what you are doing here... :thumbsup:

nathanielbell
09-02-2005, 03:34 AM
awe... great stuff... Has a very good feel to it.

Mastahful
09-14-2005, 06:06 PM
Thanks again for the great comments everyone. Sorry for the lack of update, but Iíve been really busy with working on a show reel and looking for work, as soon as I get sorted ill post an update, which will include a flythrough of the finished environment.

Mastahful
10-12-2005, 01:02 AM
Hi everyone, its been a while since I posted anything Iv been pretty tied up with other things, and I have only just got round to making a decent flythrough, should be done soon....in the mean time I had a few hours free time so I started work on a new building I might throw it in to the environment, or start a new small side project with it...not sure yet, crits welcome as always...

http://img445.imageshack.us/img445/1835/new26lq.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img445.imageshack.us/img445/3319/newrear24qa.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Headless
10-12-2005, 01:06 AM
Fantastic as always.

It may just be how you've rendered them, but there's a great sense of weight to your models that I really like. Makes them seem more solid and real.

More thumbs up. :thumbsup:

Por@szek
10-12-2005, 08:04 AM
Hi mate.

U know my opinion, it's really cool.

I like the style of new industrial building. I hoping that U won't stop growing your scene. Its really impressive. Piece of great work.

I keep thumbs for next progress and I think the contract is in Your pocket.

Keep it up!!

rybeck
10-16-2005, 02:26 PM
Hi everyone, its been a while since I posted anything Iv been pretty tied up with other things, and I have only just got round to making a decent flythrough, should be done soon....in the mean time I had a few hours free time so I started work on a new building I might throw it in to the environment, or start a new small side project with it...not sure yet, crits welcome as always...




Gosh... Love your works, and got inspiration everytime I open this section on the forum... Now I have a couple questions, and I hope you can answer for...

Here they are:
(1) what motivate you design the real (and/but) sureal style building?
Maybe this is my interpretation from yuor works, but I am wondering how you work... I am working on restaurant design , exterior and interior, and have gotten mental block during the process... Either stuck with generic shape (or style) or Too over the top, and lost functionality...

(2) I visited your WIP Web site, and I got another impression... About the Font you used overall (it looks alike rusty, worn kinds...)the site, what is the name oif the font? I love to use it, if you don't mind...

Thanks for your time, and keep up great works!

Rybeck

Mastahful
10-17-2005, 05:45 PM
Thanks for the comments, appreciate them as always.........I had some more spare time so I knocked out a quick texture, still some more modelling to be done on this building but just wanted to get a base texture down...hereís the result:


http://img433.imageshack.us/img433/8336/texturetest49pq.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


rybeck: Cheers for the great comment!.....I suppose Iím motivated by everything around me, and if I ever have a block, I just go for a ride to some abandoned factory, or hit Google image search for a few hours, works every time!...as for the font I think its called 'weltron urban'..

finchy
10-17-2005, 06:05 PM
Love this style of work, Excellent job so far, this image gives off a great scence of scale and weight. Keep up the good work, very inspiring. Finchy :)

mindrot
10-17-2005, 06:09 PM
Still looking great :thumbsup:

Titan
10-17-2005, 06:40 PM
forgive me if this has already been mentioned, I havent read this entire thread.....
What are all these structures for...just portfolio material?

anyway I like these a lot..they look great....are you also using bump or normal maps on them? on that latest pic the brick texture doesnt appear to be uniformly scaled correctly throughout the model... but its looking good...

Duke of Holland
10-17-2005, 06:41 PM
Been reading your thread from the beginning, overall looks great man. Keep it up, people like you keep me motivated to finish my buildings (except texturing).

However, I know it's still a WIP, but some of the brick-scales are off on the factory. Other then that it already breaths atmosphere.

Mastahful
10-17-2005, 07:11 PM
The project started out as a project for an MA I finished back in August, now Iím just adding to it in my spare time for fun....yeah the one area with the larger brick scale will have a different texture altogether...just temp for now..

rybeck
10-17-2005, 09:20 PM
this is Awsome. Thank you... and...

Steen
10-17-2005, 11:08 PM
Man, those are some nice environments. Where'd you get the textures?

Mastahful
10-18-2005, 12:02 PM
I create the textures from a mix of personal photos, online resources and commercial photo and texture libraries.

luciferous
10-18-2005, 01:52 PM
Nice to see you posting stuff again, very inspirational stuff, any idea how well it runs in the unreal engine?

Mastahful
10-18-2005, 02:08 PM
Very well, I run tests all the time since itís so easy to throw stuff into the engine, plus always love running round the spaces!

dno1982
10-18-2005, 03:15 PM
Hi there,

I have been a fan of this project sinse you first posted pictures of the venician style town. The eye for detail in both the modelling and texturing is fantastic. I particually like the very irregular design of all the buildings, such as the delapitaed structures and damage. Thumbs up! Also I think the very pastoral colours work well!!! Anything more bright or contrasty would definitely not have worked as well, so spot on there too. One question that has been bugging me, where did you get the reference for the industrial factory building!!? Was it from Lincoln (UK) by any chance, as there is a structure IDENTICAL down the road from where I live!! :)

Mastahful
10-18-2005, 06:02 PM
Hey, thanks man I appreciate it...haha no itís not inspired by anything in Lincoln, its a mix of factories and mills Iíve seen around Leeds and York, but thatís quite a coincidence!

euclidius
10-19-2005, 06:57 AM
nice work man, I always go to this thread for inspiration :] just keep them projects rollin man!

Por@szek
10-19-2005, 08:12 AM
Dude U are more and more inspiring me. Do U have some plan, idea how big it will be, or are U just making the object and place them? From where are U taking the inspiration for the models?? From photos or just from a head (or whrom the window view :D ).

I have nothing special to crit, maybe something when U finish the texturing. And like always, more stuff like barrels wheels or others are need in here.

Take care mate.

rob-beddall
10-19-2005, 08:19 AM
hey!!

wow, this environment is nicely done.
have no crits that i can add.
though i would like to ask you a question.
where did you get the documentation from that taught you how to import stuff to the half-life 2 engine? when i was trying to do it i found it difficult and couldn't really find any good sources of information on the net.

cheers!!

MrWaRrDoG
12-21-2005, 12:48 PM
My suggestion would be to add a little graffiti here and there
It looks a lot like Russia after the 2nd world war.... So perhaps also some bloodstains or empty guns/bullets as props? just suggesting mate :) One thing i notice is that some of the textures are repeating just a little to much to be realistic... but a great job nonetheless

Mastahful
12-22-2005, 08:38 AM
Cheers for the resurrection mate, this thread has been long dead...since finding work I haven't had much time to do any work on this, I might get some time over Christmas, but I might use that to start a new side project....we'll see, thanks for the crits :thumbsup:

reeds
01-14-2006, 06:51 AM
These environments are ace! How did you set up the lighting and did you use normal maps on them?

Once again great stuff, and I'll come back for inspirations.

Mastahful
01-14-2006, 12:34 PM
Hey thanks, brought this back to life again! The light setup is low GI, with 2 directional lights one simulating the sun, the other softening the shadows, not casting any itself, a pretty much standard 3-point lighting rig and there are no normal maps in the scene just diffuse. thanks again!

NeptuneImaging
01-23-2006, 01:19 PM
I am still wondering how people managed to texture a building on a single Texture Sheet...I am still trying to learn that as I want to build environments....

Great stuff, Mastahful

carakong
01-24-2006, 04:07 AM
yeh agreed definitely some cool stuff, i hadn't properly read this thread before, it would be really really really nice to see the models without GI though

Mastahful
01-24-2006, 09:30 AM
Thanks guys, you just wont let this die lol!

HaloAnimator: Yeah full texture sheets are good but not all the time, and good tiling is
pretty much essential in most game environments..

carakong: Most of the scene is without GI so to speak, the majority of the textures have the GI baked, although not all since I ran out of baking time...

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