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S-S
07-16-2005, 11:52 PM
Hi!

- I think some might have seen this already, but it's still work-in-progress :) I started this in june, and have been working on 3 other models, and today i just decided to update him.

- I focused today on fixing face corner and side profiles. I also edited face texture, i added more color variation into skin.
- I also did a small test with alpha hair. I also added some wrinkles into suit joint areas, and ironed out some stupid geometry faults.

- I think i'm going to tune the head size too, so don't worry about that :)

CnC welcome!

P.S. If you are not familiar with him, do a google search :). I tried to create a good likeness.

Full body views (http://www.cgmill.com/ss/realtime/20050717_takeshi1.jpg)
Facial Expressions (http://www.cgmill.com/ss/realtime/20050717_takeshi2.jpg)
Different Angles (http://www.cgmill.com/ss/realtime/20050717_takeshi3.jpg)

TwitchyHamster
07-17-2005, 12:07 AM
Well dang! Super stuff honestly, the only thing that catches my eye at the moment is a line where his neck meets his body.

I love that texture that you used for the face. Would you mind showing us the texture file? I'd love to see how you painted it.


-Twitchy

S-S
07-17-2005, 12:14 AM
TwitchyHamster:

Thanks!

- There is a shadow map line going there. There is also a slight tone difference in skin. It's the last thing i'll fix :)

- Texture is hand painted. I first used front photo as ref for eyes, nose and big scars in his face. (painted them over UVs with photo as ref)
- I then overlayed some skin pores pattern. Then i started to copy bumps and dents of his face (flipping between image viewer and PS)... this took a good part of a day. Today i just strengthened creases and added more color variation.

TwitchyHamster
07-17-2005, 12:15 AM
Wonderful =) Thanks for answering!

-Twitchy

eMPeck
07-17-2005, 12:29 AM
OMFG! Could You (please) post texture sheet? This is wonderful piece of texturing. I'm in love. Thanks for sharing.

S-S
07-17-2005, 12:58 AM
- Proportions update. Tuned leg length. He is 7 and 1/3 heads tall in real life, i made him a bit shorter. I used old photo of "violent cop" as ref... i think he is nowadays bit shorter :)

Update (http://www.cgmill.com/ss/realtime/20050717_takeshi1_2.jpg)

AndyH
07-17-2005, 01:48 AM
good stuff! I saw this a while ago on your website when you posted your spy girl.
Is the face hand-painted? It looks just like him!
My only crits are that his hair alphas look a bit odd from certain angles (always a tricky thing to get right) and his clothes texture could use some more depth and detail, with maybe a bit of baked lighting.

AdamAtomic
07-17-2005, 02:53 AM
The only places I have seen him are Battle Royale and MXC, he was a lot older in those I think, so I'm used to him have fuller cheeks and just being a little more stout in general, but the overall quality of the face texture is beautiful! I think maybe the cheek definition might be a tad strong, but it may suit him, i haven't seen any yakuza flicks in a long time :D great job!

PetterSundnes
07-17-2005, 02:56 AM
The face is incredibly convincing, but as Andy said, the clothes look a bit flat. What about adding a bit stronger directional lighting on him, nothing fancy, but a realistic real-time-type directional light (or infinite or linear or whatever it would be called :)

On the hair issue, would it help if you added another layer of hair perhaps, or made the gap between the model and the hair-polys smaller... ?

S-S
07-17-2005, 10:29 AM
- Thanks!

Andy H:

- I think i already told TwitchyHamster how i did the texture. It's many hours of work :). And yes i know the hair alpha issue, i was only going to use 4x1 planes and there is actually already quite many polys. But i guess i have to smooth them / add more poly if it shows too much....

- I already had a small amount of lighting in suit, but i don't remember how strong it is in renders. Maybe i make it stronger...

petterms:
- Hair is a poly issue. I have to add more polys. Skull is actually very simple in poly detail. I guess i add another layer under side alpha hairs - there is only maybe 1cm gap between hair and skull but anyway...

Adam Atomic:

- I think his face look very different in every movie... Movie guys do so many tricks to make people look different :) - I used "Brother" images as ref.

johnwoo
07-17-2005, 11:09 AM
Very cool piece of work, I do agree with the previous comments tho' about the clothing needs more detail added as for the face impressive likeness :thumbsup:...my only crit is the expression he's pulling when he smiling, It looks slightly off :shrug:...that's the only crit apart from the clothing...apart from cool work man..

Neox
07-17-2005, 11:41 AM
awesome work on the face, really nice, but as the others said, i'd also like to see more details on the clothing:thumbsup:

kOmoo
07-17-2005, 12:32 PM
Really good work on the face, please post a wire.

S-S
07-17-2005, 12:41 PM
Updates:

- Less shading in creases... i have been going back and forth between less and mores shading... anyway i guess i will leave it as it is now...
- Hair is denser and smoother. I guess it is not wise to do thin hair with limited poly budget ;)

* I activated shading layers for suit. I forgot to mention that model 75-85% self illuminated, most of the shading is in texture. I'm guess i'm not going to add any stronger wrinkles into suit, as there are not that many big wrinkles in suit i used as ref.

http://www.cgmill.com/ss/wip/20050717_takeshi1_3.jpg

http://www.cgmill.com/ss/wip/20050717_takeshi2_2.jpg

http://www.cgmill.com/ss/wip/20050717_takeshi3_2.jpg

8bit_Mind
07-17-2005, 12:45 PM
awesome model dude ! :thumbsup:

he looks like so real... except for the neck, but it's a great model.

S-S
07-17-2005, 12:58 PM
johnwoo:

"my only crit is the expression he's pulling when he smiling, It looks slightly off"

...Thanks! I guess making likeness is quite hard (in sense that other people too think it looks like him, in addition to myself). Expressions are another thing. I'm glad that it's only slightly off! ;)

petterms, Neox, johnwoo:
- I hope i you notice clothes shading now ;) Those suite don't have that big wrinkles, i won't add those. That dark/light shading which you can see in last renders is in texture Suit is not lit by lights.

BTW; Tri count is 3400 including teeth, tongue eyes and shades.

kaisasose
07-17-2005, 01:15 PM
I like this model, very cool. However, his ear seems to stand out from the rest of his face, and on the suit, if you could add seams on the sleeves, and a few pockets I reckon it would help a bit. Good work so far mate. :thumbsup:

S-S
07-17-2005, 01:30 PM
kaisasose:
- Thanks!. I will definitely add pockets :)
- I think the seam in sleeves is "inside" (next to body) and not on outside side. I have done seams in leg, sleeve and on side of torso, but you can't just see those in neutral pose model.

- I'm also going to add some detail to neck later today.

kaisasose
07-17-2005, 01:40 PM
Excuse me, I didn't explain myself properly. I meant the sleeves where they join the shoulders. :)

AdamAtomic
07-17-2005, 01:43 PM
I hope you don't mind but I did a quick paint-over to show what some very subtle shading additions to his suit could do. One detail that you missed is that the notch in the lapel of the jacket is usually created by a seam, not just a cut in the fabric itself. Hope this helps! (The face is soooo beautiful, he really does need a suit to match!)

TheNeverman
07-17-2005, 02:43 PM
Was he one of the bad guys in Johnny Mnemonic?

n8

GuruMatt
07-17-2005, 03:08 PM
Was he one of the bad guys in Johnny Mnemonic?

n8

yes

Love your work looks really good.

PetterSundnes
07-17-2005, 04:26 PM
Very nice, really improved the hair and shadow! http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif

I agree with you though, a suit shouldnt have wrinkles. I think the only problem laid in the directional lighting (which you seem to have fixed). Did you paint the stronger shadows, or are those done at render time?

Say this model is in an outdoor environment at daytime, there would be global lighting (hence the 75% self illumination), but at the same time, if it is sunny, there would be a rather defined shadowside of the model too. I believe the texture itself shouldn't have any strong directional lights, but you could render one when showing off the model (render it with a directional light).

Psyk0
07-17-2005, 05:27 PM
Excellent likeness, the face texture is awesome. i'd love to see wires too.

The shoes dont have any laces...?

S-S
07-17-2005, 06:20 PM
Update...

- Added detail into collar.
- Added highlights into collar
- Pockets.
- Correctly cut collars and front part of jacket.
- Fixed morph target of smile.
- Added some small wrinkles into shirt
- Neck skin color/roughness tweaks and collarbones

http://www.cgmill.com/ss/wip/20050717_takeshi1_5.jpg

http://www.cgmill.com/ss/wip/20050717_takeshi1_4.jpg

S-S
07-17-2005, 06:31 PM
kaisasose:
- Yep. I was going to ask if you meant that seam :). See updated images. I also adjusted seam placement and shape for more ref image like look.

8bit_Mind:
- I added some details into neck. He doesn't actually have that visible collarbones, if you check "Sonatine" images you will see what i mean.

Adam Atomic:
- Nope, it's completely OK :) Thanks for the tip! I actually have very poor quality images as ref and i obviously missed those "cuts" in collar!

kaisasose:
- Added pockets. Thanks for the tip :)

Psyk0:
- Hehe... I think he doesn't use shoes with laces! . I guess he's more into old fashioned leather shoes ;)

petterms:
- Yep. Anyway lighting in suit is quite easy to see, but it's only in range of 2-4% in diffuse variation. So it doesn't have THAT much painted light and it's easy to tune for different effect.

rosch
07-17-2005, 07:22 PM
Wow, this is just impressive! Can't say/add much to the others.

HellBoy
07-17-2005, 07:29 PM
hold on, that is way wicked, you must be proud of yourself that it turned out like this, were you expecting this result. maan I would set a whole party if I done something similar to this


way you go s-s :thumbsup:

Iain McFadzen
07-18-2005, 07:23 AM
That head texture is outstanding!

Neox
07-18-2005, 08:07 AM
now this is getting great, the frontpage is definately yours when this is finished:thumbsup:


but i'm still missing some buttons on his shirt, or what is holding it together in the middle? ^^

Por@szek
07-18-2005, 10:09 AM
Awesome .. and nothing less.

S-S
07-18-2005, 10:16 AM
Neox:

- Yes, thanks! Buttons are really missing from shirt, have to do another update on texture!

LordDubu
07-18-2005, 04:48 PM
Despite having watched Takeshi for years (going back to his genki-t.v. days) I still for some odd reason associate him with the line "not in the head" from Johnny Mneumonic... odd that. Perhaps because it was the first time I saw him use English...

Anyway, nice model... though, the expression sheet bugs me a bit... something isn't right about his smile... for some reason when I look at that render he stops being an accurate likeness to me.

S-S
07-18-2005, 05:03 PM
Lord Dubu:

- Yep and thanks! I know my model doesn't look 100% right and maybe never will, same goes for facial expressions. But anyway, i'm working on it and hope i can make model/expressions a bit better. But "something isn't right about his smile" doesn't help much to make it better :)

LordDubu
07-18-2005, 05:38 PM
OK, well I just did a quick google on Kitano to see if I could get some smile reference... comparing what I saw there to your smile this is what I'd suggest...


for starters the upper lip is too stiff. The corners of the mouth should purse more, and the lower lip should not begin its deform at the corners of the mouth, rather there should still be some closure at the corners. Also, the lack of a gap between the lower lip and the teeth is making the teeth look too large and a little oafish.

Like I said you've got a great likeness here... I don't know if you did this already, but for the expressions, I'd try to find examples of each expression, and try to match what you see... my humble opinion is, a beautifully textured model, with the wrong expression is less effective than a poorly textured model with the right expression when it comes to communicating a human likeness to a real person.

S-S
07-18-2005, 06:31 PM
Lord Dubu:

- Thanks, i think i will waste more time on expressions as soon as i get other things done! Anyway, i guess i will give him grim gangster expression ;)

itsallgoode9
07-19-2005, 09:43 AM
Very nice man! One thing that bothered me right when I looked at it was the upper lip and how far down that dip in the middle of the lip goes. Hope that made sense lol. And in general I think the top lip feels very thin. Great work toverall though!

dinodog-jr
07-19-2005, 10:10 AM
oh man..this is so cool!
1 of my favo director!

You can find some Smile pose from Takeshi in "Fireworks" movie. He tried hard to be a good husband..He have some scene wif cool smile to his wife in that show. An Indeed desperate movie from him.

I dunno where i put my cd. Sorry man.

johnwoo
07-19-2005, 10:39 AM
Top notch work S-S...when I saw the character for the 1st time I was at home, and made the comment about lack of texture detail due to my monitor, at work the settings are slightly different and I can actually see details in the clothing textures a lot better...so again great job man...btw...how in the hell are'nt you hired?!?!?...your work is superb!!...:thumbsup:

S-S
07-19-2005, 12:29 PM
Thanks guys!

Updates:
- Small fix to lip UVs
- Shirt button
- Shoe edge fix
- Hair seam on skull
- Suit saturation fix (less saturation in color)
- Wrinkle fixes (just small tweak on top of old layer...)

johnwoo:
- Updated textures on dark background this time. Just a test don't know what kind of renders i will finally make...

- I just put some lights into scene so don't pay too much attention to lighting!

http://www.cgmill.com/ss/wip/20050719_takeshi_01.jpg

AndyH
07-19-2005, 12:44 PM
Looks loads better - especially his suit texture.

kaisasose
07-19-2005, 12:55 PM
Ah yes now this is what I'm talkin aboot. :thumbsup:

WAcky
07-19-2005, 12:56 PM
im not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but im finding it kinda strange how the forearm part of his suit is larger than the upperarm part...

otherwise, its looking great :D

johnwoo
07-19-2005, 01:02 PM
Awesome!!...even more enhanced in that render...absolutely class!..:thumbsup:

blaize
07-19-2005, 01:04 PM
amazing.. one of my favorite directors :)

But looking at the last render you gave us, it seems that the arm pits are very high ( to high )

S-S
07-19-2005, 02:53 PM
Andy H, kaisasose, johnwoo:

- Thanks :)

blaize:

- Thanks for pointing that out. I was going to anyway lift arm a bit to get mesh ready for some rigging (it's modeled originally in the pose which you see in image). It might be that armpit is bit high, but anyway mesh is really lowres, and there is only one vertex under arm, that's why highlight goes so high. Will fix it anyway.

WAcky:
- I know there is also a bump in arm, which i used to simulate fold in arm. Forearm might look a thicker compared to upperarm, but its actually upperarm which goes thru body now... will be fixed next when i add bones / skinning...

supernekosan
07-19-2005, 02:57 PM
i have noting to say about it...i is looking so real!^^

AlexGrigorov
07-19-2005, 04:52 PM
Almost real! Great model!:applause: Deservs 5*;)

S-S
07-19-2005, 05:09 PM
- Ok, Another update.

Updates:
- Fixed armpit polys - added 3-4 to make it look softer.
- Fixed neck/collarbone seam, i really had to move neck polys into head mesh, head shading didn't look OK when there was unnatural seam.
- I stole the weapon from my "Spy Girl" model and changed it to different color. It's not any real weapon, but i think it will be enough for me :)

- I took some time to setup my standard skeleton
- Skinning is IMO quite OK, maybe he can't do a sommersault but anyway i don't want to waste time on skinning as no-one will see it anyway ;)

- Did some test poses.
http://www.cgmill.com/ss/wip/20050719_takeshi_poses.jpg

blaize
07-19-2005, 05:27 PM
really amazing.

to bad we wont see it in a game or something, it's a shame it'll just collect dust in your HD.
a real shame :cry:

PS: any chance for us to see a wire?, you say it's real low poly yet it looks amazing.
a wire would really be able to show the effects of a good texture.

mindrot
07-19-2005, 05:42 PM
Loverrrrrrly work S-S.

Love the face texture.

:thumbsup:

PS:you should find work easily

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