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igami
07-15-2005, 05:07 PM
Hey guys,

I've been researching and still got some questions that i'm not sure about. My old old system used to be a 1.2 Athlon and it crashed on me a lot. So I jumped into the Intel P4 HT right after and omitted the AMDs. But I've been reading about Dual Cores and AMD suppose to be better than the Intel Dual Cores and wondering if AMD fixed the crashing problem they used to have on the old processors? I want to build a pretty powerful machine this time and I like to know some opinions from you guys. These are the specs i've been thinking about but might change a bit.

AMD Athlon 64 x2 4400+ or 4600+ 4800+
2 gig DDR Ram
Geforce 6 or 7 series (Not sure which ones are good, any recommendations?)
250gig western digital

Thanks guys

- IgAmI

TheThidMan
07-15-2005, 05:12 PM
Id get the 4400 and overlock it as its the same as the 4800 but 0.2ghz slower.

All new AMDs are faster than Pentiums for games/3d i believe, and the dual cores are cheaper and perform slightly better than the pentium ones i read in several reviews.

enygma
07-15-2005, 05:15 PM
Crashing problems on an athlon eh? Well, I have an AthlonXP 2400+ that has been up and running without reboot or crash for close to 270 days now, and almost every system in my office is now AMD powered. Have dual Opteron 250, Athlon64 FX-55, Athlon64 3200+ and Athlon64 2800+. The people that use the systems love them, and they don't crash.

As for the GeForce, I would say go for the GeForce 7 series, only it is really up to your budget to decide.

Rambiert
07-15-2005, 05:24 PM
Hey guys,

I've been researching and still got some questions that i'm not sure about. My old old system used to be a 1.2 Athlon and it crashed on me a lot. So I jumped into the Intel P4 HT right after and omitted the AMDs. But I've been reading about Dual Cores and AMD suppose to be better than the Intel Dual Cores and wondering if AMD fixed the crashing problem they used to have on the old processors? I want to build a pretty powerful machine this time and I like to know some opinions from you guys. These are the specs i've been thinking about but might change a bit.

AMD Athlon 64 x2 4400+ or 4600+ 4800+
2 gig DDR Ram
Geforce 6 or 7 series (Not sure which ones are good, any recommendations?)
250gig western digital

Thanks guys

- IgAmI

You should consider a motherboard with two PCI Express slots, good and economic choice'll be 2x GeForce 6800/256DDR/ in SLI mode, it'll give you powerfull system with circa 512 Mb graphic memory.

igami
07-15-2005, 05:33 PM
It's good to hear that AMD is better now. My old AMD Althon 1.2 was almost a nightmare. LOL! But I am considering the 4400+ because is 1mb x 2 cache. SLI was on my list also, and it sounds powerful!! :thumbsup: But I am just a bit worry about the Drivers. Any problems encounter?

About overclocking, does it make the processor hotter? I'll be a bit scare if I overclock it and run with a AMD stock fan. :eek:

Rambiert
07-15-2005, 05:40 PM
:thumbsup: But I am just a bit worry about the Drivers. Any problems encounter?

About overclocking, does it make the processor hotter? I'll be a bit scare if I overclock it and run with a AMD stock fan. :eek:

Problems with early Nv drivers for new hardware solutions are traditionall, especially for another OSs:).

Equipp your overclocked mashine with quiet passive cooling system. Finally AMD Rocks! All my projects were made on AMD CPU based mashines. Also i'm going to equipp my next self built mashine with AMD X2 64 centrall unit(s).

EscapeYourMind
07-15-2005, 06:09 PM
It is weird you had crashing problems with your Athlon 1.2, I've never heard of that before, it could have very well been a conflict though and two things in your system did not want to play nicely. Either way AMD has always had solid chips and even since the Athlon 500's they have been rock solid in my opinion. Nvidia has done a very good job making drivers for the nforce series and like Burt says any time your dealing with the cutting edge there are bound to be a few problems, but nvidia will work them out. As for the overclocking, yes it does make the processor hot, How hot? depends on how far you are willing to push it. Before you start to overclock though check your cpu temp in the bios, if its above 60 degrees celcius, I'd recommend getting a new heatsink before you attempt it. If your in the mid to low 30's you are doing a very good job of keeping it cool and should not have any problems with it. If you are overclocking you should do burn in testing to make sure everything is solid. Nothing like pushing your computer to the edge only to have it crash half way through an hour render. Burn in testing will also give you a good idea of how hot your process will get underload. Nowadays most people just use some software to overclock without realising how hot their processor is getting under load because they are doing it while their system is idle.

igami
07-15-2005, 06:59 PM
Actually, its not just my old system, but my co-worker's 1.4 athlon system too. Always surprise with the evil blue screen if something is heavy. My old system would crash when i play Starcraft back then. It had 512mb ram at first but when I slapped 1 gig it still had the
same problem. But either way, I definitely like the new Athlons and willing to give another
chance.

Talk about 60 degree celcius, my current P4 3.2 HT runs over 60 when under load. 50 idle.
Should I worry?

EscapeYourMind
07-15-2005, 07:16 PM
While its not good to run them that hot as it may induce some stability issues and reduce the lifespan, you probably won't notice at all as it is still within the workable range. I think around 70-80c is when you will get close to burning out the chip.

In general, cooler is better, but if your system is between 50-60 your still fine and shouldnt worry about it. Before you even get close to your chips limit you will have severe stability issues, crashes and blue screens, so as long as your system is still stable you dont have to worry.

igami
07-15-2005, 07:34 PM
I even bought a Gigabyte 3D rocket fan that goes up to 3900 rpm and it helped a bit. If I take it off and but the stock, it runs 60 idle and 70 full load. Maybe its the thermal grease that I might put wrong? I put and dime drop amount and spread it evenly. Any other products out there that would help cool down my system? Oh by the way, I have 4 system fans not including the gigabyte fan, 3 in the back of the case, and 1 on the side.

lots
07-15-2005, 07:46 PM
I've owned AMD based systems since my Pentium II 266MHz. I have not had a single problem with ANY AMD system I have owned due to the CPU (bad hard drives are another story :)). I have never experienced "a crashing problem" before. In most cases your crashes were probably due to driver mixups, or hardware not playing nice with other hardware, not the CPU.

I've had the following AMD cpus:
Athlon 700
Athlon Thunderbird 1.4GHz
Athlon XP 1500+ (mobile)
Athlon XP 1700+
Athlon XP 2100+ (x3)
2x Opteron 246

Anyway, the X2s are great chips, and both Geforce 6 and 7 are excellent. I would invest in the highest X2 you can get, and the Geforce 6800GT.

EscapeYourMind
07-15-2005, 07:50 PM
Which thermal grease did you use? I would highly recommend Arctic Silver, I use it in all of the machines that I build. From the sound of it you applied what you had correctly.

What is your system temp, and the room ambient temp? I know my system runs very hot primarily because it becomes an oven in the room im in. (texas, middle of the summer).

There are a lot of factors that go into cooling a computer. If your heatsink is aluminum that could be a factor as the heat properties of copper are better, if your case is dusty, dust can get caked inside the fins of your heatsink and restrict air flow. Then theres all kinds of things about airflow, which fans should be pushing and which fans should be pulling, etc. That can help a few degrees but in your case I wouldnt worry about it to much.

And probably the most obvious, thoes newer intels just run hot =).

If your really that worried, and have some extra cash to burn and are willing to take the risk I can give you a lot of info on watercooling as well.

EscapeYourMind
07-15-2005, 07:55 PM
I've owned AMD based systems since my Pentium II 266MHz. I have not had a single problem with ANY AMD system I have owned due to the CPU (bad hard drives are another story :)). I have never experienced "a crashing problem" before. In most cases your crashes were probably due to driver mixups, or hardware not playing nice with other hardware, not the CPU.

I've had the following AMD cpus:
Athlon 700
Athlon Thunderbird 1.4GHz
Athlon XP 1500+ (mobile)
Athlon XP 1700+
Athlon XP 2100+ (x3)
2x Opteron 246

Anyway, the X2s are great chips, and both Geforce 6 and 7 are excellent. I would invest in the highest X2 you can get, and the Geforce 6800GT.

Ya, ive owned from the athlon 500's, duron 900, 1.4 t-bird(by far imo the best processor ever made), 2500+ barton, and now 3200+. Never have I seen a problem with amd cpu's crashing. I fully agree that the X2's are great chips. However I'm a bit of an ATI fan myself and would recommend the latest ati offerings.

The 7800's numbers do look very good, I am interested in what ATI's response to it will be. I hope they arent too concerned with getting their new mobo chipset out that they forget they need a new video card =)

MadMax
07-15-2005, 07:58 PM
But I've been reading about Dual Cores and AMD suppose to be better than the Intel Dual Cores and wondering if AMD fixed the crashing problem they used to have on the old processors?


AMD NEVER had crashing problems on their CPU's. they have always run quite stable and reliable. If you had a crashing problem, there was a factor at play other than the CPU.

Possibilities:

1. A crappy motherboard. ECS or maybe one with a VIA chipset.

2. poor quality power supply.

3. improper cooling.

4. there are still many possibilities.


I want to build a pretty powerful machine this time and I like to know some opinions from you guys. These are the specs i've been thinking about but might change a bit.

AMD Athlon 64 x2 4400+ or 4600+ 4800+
2 gig DDR Ram
Geforce 6 or 7 series (Not sure which ones are good, any recommendations?)
250gig western digital


The Athlon64 X2 is flat out the fastest thing you can buy and they are quite relaible, just select the right components.

First off, narrow your list to the X2 4400 and 4800. Those have 1gb cache, the 4200 and 4600 are 512mb cache.

Buy a motherboard with nVidia's nForce4 chipset. nForce is probably the best computer chipset on the market. Suggestions would depend on budget, however...Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe or for 20.00 more the Asus A8N-SLI Premium (uses a heatpipe cooler on the chipset)

DFI LanParty SLI-DR expensive, but a very hardcore board.

Corsiar or OCZ ram, 2gb minimum.

nvidia 6800. Since it is SLI, you can use a pair of 6800's. (cool for gaming, but works better as multi monitor support.) or the new 7800's.

MadMax
07-15-2005, 08:01 PM
Talk about 60 degree celcius, my current P4 3.2 HT runs over 60 when under load. 50 idle.

Should I worry?


Nope. mine run in the low 40's under rendering loads.

igami
07-15-2005, 08:13 PM
Then theres all kinds of things about airflow, which fans should be pushing and which fans should be pulling, etc.

What do you suggest on pushing and pulling the air? I have 3 fans on the back pulling the air out and the side pushing the air in. Or should I have 2 pulling the air out, 1 pulling in, and the side pulling the air in?




First off, narrow your list to the X2 4400 and 4800. Those have 1gb cache, the 4200 and 4600 are 512mb cache.

Buy a motherboard with nVidia's nForce4 chipset. nForce is probably the best computer chipset on the market. Suggestions would depend on budget, however...Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe or for 20.00 more the Asus A8N-SLI Premium (uses a heatpipe cooler on the chipset)

DFI LanParty SLI-DR expensive, but a very hardcore board.


I know for sure i'm going for the 1 gig cache. My question is, Is there a dramatic difference in speed between the 4400 and 4800 in rendering? I will be rendering with Mental Ray. 63 at full load when using Mental Ray to render.

As for the Mobo, how is the heatpipe cooler work? Is it built-in ?

EscapeYourMind
07-15-2005, 08:27 PM
What do you suggest on pushing and pulling the air? I have 3 fans on the back pulling the air out and the side pushing the air in. Or should I have 2 pulling the air out, 1 pulling in, and the side pulling the air in?

It sounds like you have it the correct way. The only other option would be a front fan that is pushing air. That way you have 2 ins and 3 ours (not including your psu). The front fan is bringing in cool air from the front and throwing it towards the back for the fans in the back to get rid of it. In general these things only make small changes that people use to just squeeze a few more mhz out of their proc by dropping their case temp maybe a degree.

For you since you said your temps are between 50-60.. dont worry about it. Your still well within the ranges.

igami
07-15-2005, 08:31 PM
hehe well 1 or 2 degrees is still a bit cooler. I live in Miami, so the weather is always at 90 outside in the summer. I usually don't turn my AC in my house on when i'm not there. hehe

MadMax
07-15-2005, 08:32 PM
What do you suggest on pushing and pulling the air? I have 3 fans on the back pulling the air out and the side pushing the air in. Or should I have 2 pulling the air out, 1 pulling in, and the side pulling the air in?

1 or 2 on the front of the case blowing INTO the case, and 2 fans at the back of the case blowing out.

Good part about AMD is that heat isn't hard to control.


I know for sure i'm going for the 1 gig cache. My question is, Is there a dramatic difference in speed between the 4400 and 4800 in rendering? I will be rendering with Mental Ray. 63 at full load when using Mental Ray to render.


well it will make a difference. However just FYI, 4400's can be overclocked easily to 4800 speeds. I've seen them pushed up to 2.7ghz.


As for the Mobo, how is the heatpipe cooler work? Is it built-in ?


The Premium comes with the heatpipe already setup and attached. Heatpipes are very efficient cooling, and it doesn't make any noise.

igami
07-15-2005, 08:57 PM
1 or 2 on the front of the case blowing INTO the case, and 2 fans at the back of the case blowing out.

Good part about AMD is that heat isn't hard to control.

Ah....my case don't have the one in the front. 2 back and 1 side. :sad: My next system, i'll be more careful at selecting a case.



well it will make a difference. However just FYI, 4400's can be overclocked easily to 4800 speeds. I've seen them pushed up to 2.7ghz.

WHOA! :eek: That's AWESOME! Thats a lot cheaper too. The 4800 cost $1000 and the 4400 is like 600. That's almost HALF the price! I also read beginning of August, the AMD will drop the price of the X2. GREAT GREAT DEAL!!!

lots
07-15-2005, 09:30 PM
AMD's got new fabs coming on line, so a price drop is going to come fairly soon I would expect. And with the new fabs comes more volume and lower prices for us :)

MadMax
07-15-2005, 10:22 PM
AMD's got new fabs coming on line, so a price drop is going to come fairly soon I would expect. And with the new fabs comes more volume and lower prices for us :)

yup. A new Fab, Fab 36, using 300mm wafers and 65nm. AND they are gaining a third operational Fab deal (manufactured for AMD, not a fab they own) in Singapore.

igami
07-15-2005, 10:22 PM
AMD's got new fabs coming on line, so a price drop is going to come fairly soon I would expect. And with the new fabs comes more volume and lower prices for us

Fab 36? is it a new processor? I'm not too familiar with that. hmm...


I was just checking out this board (Asus A8N-SLI Premium) from newegg and some people said that this board runs hot. Anyone have the same problem?

novadude
07-15-2005, 11:29 PM
Fab 36? is it a new processor? I'm not too familiar with that. hmm...

No, Fab 36 is a new production facility, which means they will have more production capacity, so lower prices are on the horizon.
In addition to Fab 36, they are introducing a new dual core part starting at $345 next month.

I was just checking out this board (Asus A8N-SLI Premium) from newegg and some people said that this board runs hot. Anyone have the same problem?

The new version has a heatpipe on the chipset, so it will run cooler than the old version which shipped with an inadequate heatsink/fan combo on the chipset.

MadMax
07-15-2005, 11:40 PM
I was just checking out this board (Asus A8N-SLI Premium) from newegg and some people said that this board runs hot. Anyone have the same problem?



Operator error.

There is nothing on the board to "run hot" except the nVidia chipset itself. That is what the heatpipe is for.

probably comments from people who don't know how to install a heatsink on their CPU properly, forgot thermal grease, or used too much.

imashination
07-16-2005, 12:47 AM
Heat pipes (especially those connected to a dual core chip) will also have a fan, the heat pipes help distribute the heat to a larger area faster instead of relying on the heat moving up through the metal fins, but they still need airfow over them at some point.

MadMax
07-16-2005, 12:58 AM
Heat pipes (especially those connected to a dual core chip) will also have a fan, the heat pipes help distribute the heat to a larger area faster instead of relying on the heat moving up through the metal fins, but they still need airfow over them at some point.

um..... we were talking about the heatpipe setup for the northbridge on the Asus A8N-SLI Premium board, not CPU cooling.

imashination
07-16-2005, 12:56 PM
um..... we were talking about the heatpipe setup for the northbridge on the Asus A8N-SLI Premium board, not CPU cooling.

Ah, well, carry on then ;-)

rebo
07-17-2005, 05:32 PM
i must insist do NOT buy a DFI Lanparty board unless you are experienced in computer tweaking and by the sounds of your first post you are not. Its a good board but will only frustrate if you dont have the experience.

I am fairly good with computer hardware having built 4 or 5 systems from scratch over the years and the DFI was a real tough challange.

Furthermore you dont need SLI'd 6800GTs atm especially for 3d graphics work, sure its fast but unless you have money to burn its a waste. A single 6800GT or 7800GT will do just fine.

If your cooling on air, the best situation i can think of is to have a 120mm intake on the side or front with another 80mm intake at the other spot, however not many cases come with this space many only allow 80mn cases. Some people add slimline 80mm intake fans above and below their harddisks however for 3d your likely to need several harddisks and might not be able to do that. I need a 120mm intake on my case to increase airflow but it would mean modding the case with a saw. Something I dont want to do just yet:) Once you determine your inflow you need match it with exhaust.

1000101
07-18-2005, 07:51 PM
A note on the L2 cache; It's 1Mb and 512Kb not 1Gb and 512Mb.

MadMax
07-18-2005, 08:10 PM
A note on the L2 cache; It's 1Mb and 512Kb not 1Gb and 512Mb.

LOL! I didn't even catch that. Yeah that would be sweet eh?

igami
07-18-2005, 08:22 PM
LOL! I didn't even catch that. Yeah that would be sweet eh?

Hehehe...One day man, One day.....:bounce:


i must insist do NOT buy a DFI Lanparty board unless you are experienced in computer tweaking and by the sounds of your first post you are not. Its a good board but will only frustrate if you dont have the experience.

I am fairly good with computer hardware having built 4 or 5 systems from scratch over the years and the DFI was a real tough challange.


This would be my second computer that i will be building. My first one was pretty easy. But what kinda tweaking are you talking about? Do you mean the Bios?



There is nothing on the board to "run hot" except the nVidia chipset itself. That is what the heatpipe is for.

probably comments from people who don't know how to install a heatsink on their CPU properly, forgot thermal grease, or used too much.


Yeah, I read the rest of the comments and most were good. I had an Asus mobo before, and it was pretty good. I trust them. But anyways, Any other boards that anyone can recommend? I'm also considering the Gigabyte boards.

MadMax
07-18-2005, 11:41 PM
I had an Asus mobo before, and it was pretty good. I trust them. But anyways, Any other boards that anyone can recommend? I'm also considering the Gigabyte boards.


As with anything, you will get radically different opinions from people. I personally will not touch MSI having witnessed massive QC issues with their boards in the past. 3 times burned in a row got them on my personal black list. But some people swear by them. I had 3 F'd up boards in a row from MSI, CPU socket not soldered in securely, a ram slot that had ZERO solder on it and one dead out of the box. Just gave me nice psychadelic colors on screen when I tried to boot it.

You will also see some people who hate Gigabyte as much as I hate MSI. I have built quite a few gigabyte baords for professional use and all ran/run flawlessly without problems. I have no probelm saying the K8NXP SLI is a great board. Rock solid, no issues, just as I expect them.

I also like the Blue motherboards :) goes great with Blue Neon inside and Blue LED fans.

TETRAGRAMMATON
07-18-2005, 11:53 PM
Talk about 60 degree celcius, my current P4 3.2 HT runs over 60 when under load. 50 idle.
Should I worry?

Be careful because Intel indicates that "max die temperature" for the P4 HT 3,20 is only 64°.

SimonPickard
07-19-2005, 01:01 AM
"Do NOT buy a DFI Lanparty board"

Really? Is it THAT hard to setup? I've read a lot of reviews saying it's just about the best board out there at the moment, but if it doesn't work out of the box, and then allow me to tweak later I don't want to know really.

What board would you say is the best out there in terms of good overclocking, but also simple to use.

Regards,
Simon

novadude
07-19-2005, 01:17 AM
Buy a DFI board and flash the BIOS to the lateest one available. The board is stable, fast, and gives you more options to tweak than any other brand of board available. If you don't want that many options, don't change them from default.

MadMax
07-19-2005, 01:31 AM
"Do NOT buy a DFI Lanparty board"

Really? Is it THAT hard to setup?


No, it isn't hard to set up at all. There are a ton of bios options for everything imaginable to tweak available to you, but it doesn;t mean you have to do all that just to set up and get it running.

also regarding X2's, in many cases, you can boot with an X2 no problem, it just comes off looking like a single core processor until you flash a new BIOS that supports it. Not a big deal to do.

at some point in time, everyone is a frikken' Noob idiot. You don't learn until you DO things. A BIOS flash isn't rocket science, but you need to understand the steps and get help if you don't understand it.

igami
07-19-2005, 03:35 AM
Be careful because Intel indicates that "max die temperature" for the P4 HT 3,20 is only 64°.


:eek: Are you serious!? I forgot where, but I read something about Intel Chip can run up to 70 or 80 degree celcius and then the processor can get burn. I think I need to change my fan then. Does anyone know a really good fan? I already got this Gigabyte 3D Rocket, and its not that good. =:shrug:




As with anything, you will get radically different opinions from people. I personally will not touch MSI having witnessed massive QC issues with their boards in the past. 3 times burned in a row got them on my personal black list. But some people swear by them. I had 3 F'd up boards in a row from MSI, CPU socket not soldered in securely, a ram slot that had ZERO solder on it and one dead out of the box. Just gave me nice psychadelic colors on screen when I tried to boot it.

You will also see some people who hate Gigabyte as much as I hate MSI. I have built quite a few gigabyte baords for professional use and all ran/run flawlessly without problems. I have no probelm saying the K8NXP SLI is a great board. Rock solid, no issues, just as I expect them.


MSI seems to have problems i heard also. Definitely won't go for that. I think I will get another Gigabyte Board because my current mobo is a Gigabyte and I have never run into a problem yet. THANKS FOR THE TIP MADMAX! :thumbsup:


Can't wait till August and hope price will drop dramatically!

igami
07-19-2005, 03:53 AM
Ok....I just test my computer temp. Idle at 52 celcius, but full load at 70 celcius. :eek: I heard a beeping sound when it reach that high. :eek:

Big help if anyone can help.....

rebo
07-19-2005, 06:48 AM
As I said the DFI is a great board if you get right in there and do all the tweaking, i have my 4400 OC'd to 2.7GHtz on it and its great. However even with a bios flash I still couldnt mix memory as i did with my previous system ( wether OC'd or stock). DFIs can be picky with their memory check their forums out at www.dfi-street.com as they can advise what memory works best with the system. Vdimm voltage may need to be increased slightly even at stock to get the memory stable.

Furthermore the nforce chip sits directly behind the PCI-E slot which means a 6800 size card interferes with the air flow. Now im happy to work with extra cooling to alleviate this problem but many people arn't , they want to just plop the chip in and be done with it.

Lastly ofcourse there is the fact that you need the bios flashed before you put a dual core in there. The company that sells you the mobo should be able to do that for you, i think monarch can do that. Some say that you can use a dual core in there but it only shows as a single core, if so then thats cool but I dont know the offical line on that.

Please dont think im saying its a bad board, its not. I own one and am very pleased with it, but also dont assume that everyone is happy to go thru the extra stages needed to get the board functioning to the best of its abilities. Its an OCers board and its suitable for such users.

TETRAGRAMMATON
07-19-2005, 10:38 AM
I forgot where, but I read something about Intel Chip can run up to 70 or 80 degree celcius and then the processor can get burn.


Official P4 specifications say that "Max Die temperature" is:

70° for P4 3,20 Ghz Northwood
73° for P4 3,20E Ghz Prescott
67,7° for P4 540/540J (3,20 Ghz) Prescott
n.d. for P4 640 (3,20 Ghz) Prescott
64° for P4 HT EE 3,20 Ghz Gallatin

cpan
07-19-2005, 11:11 AM
wow P4 is soo hot!!!

my A64 3000+ has 35C full loaded and it doesn't even have silicon paste attached... ofcorse, no OverClocking.

What do yout think... should i overclock-it a bit? can it burn?

ambient-whisper
07-19-2005, 04:59 PM
Id get the 4400 and overlock it as its the same as the 4800 but 0.2ghz slower.

All new AMDs are faster than Pentiums for games/3d i believe, and the dual cores are cheaper and perform slightly better than the pentium ones i read in several reviews.


just a copy paste. ( in canadian prices )

Intel® Pentium® D -820, 2.8-GHz @ 800Mhz w/ 1Mb x 2 Dual Core (Socket 775) (Retail Box) w/ Heat Sink & Fan - Supports Dual Core Technology $329.99

Intel® Pentium® D -840, 3.2-GHz @ 800Mhz w/ 1Mb x 2 Dual Core (Socket 775) (Retail Box) w/ Heat Sink & Fan - Supports Dual Core Technology
$699.99


AMD® Athlon™ 64 X2 - 4200+ - 512K L2 Cache (Socket 939) Retail Box - w/ Heatsink & Fan $699.99

AMD® Athlon™ 64 X2 - 4800+ - 1024K L2 Cache (Socket 939) [CDBOX] Retail Box - w/ Heatsink & Fan[b] ETA:Coming Soon - Pricing Subject to Change $1294.99

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2410&p=4


sure those amds are faster, but they cost so much more. unless you meant something else in terms of being cheaper. personally all i know is that im on an amd machine at the moment and its about the same age as my machine at home. in the several apps ive used on both, the machine at home ( intel ) performs a lot better. kinda dissapointed really, because i thought the opposite would be true. but looks like its not for every single case. to be fair though, the machine at home has hyper threading, so it helps a bit. ( but the machine at work is dual processor, so no excuse )

1000101
07-19-2005, 05:34 PM
Here's from a US reseller:

11. http://www.zipzoomfly.com/images/product/80832S.jpg (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80832) 80832
Intel Pentium® D Processor 840 3.2GHz, 800MHz FSB, Socket 775, 2x1MB Cache, Dual Core Retail ***Free 2nd Day*** (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80832)
w/Fan and Heatsink, 2x1MB Cache, 90nm $550.90
1. http://www.zipzoomfly.com/images/product/80727-RS.jpg (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80727-R) 80727-R
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4600+ Processor Socket 939 Retail ***Free 2nd Day*** (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80727-R)
w/Fan and Heatsink, 3 Years Manufacturer Warranty $796.00

(http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/PreShoppingCart.jsp?pcd=80727-R&d1=AMD+Athlon+64+X2+4600%2B+Processor+Socket+939+Retail+***Free+2nd+Day***&pc=796&qlmt=1) 2. http://www.zipzoomfly.com/images/product/80726-RS.jpg (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80726-R) 80726-R
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ Processor Socket 939 Retail ***Free 2nd Day*** (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80726-R)
w/Fan and Heatsink, 3 Years Manufacturer Warranty $628.00

(http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/PreShoppingCart.jsp?pcd=80726-R&d1=AMD+Athlon+64+X2+4400%2B+Processor+Socket+939+Retail+***Free+2nd+Day***&pc=628&qlmt=1) 3. http://www.zipzoomfly.com/images/product/80725-RS.jpg (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80725-R) 80725-R
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ Processor Socket 939 Retail ***Free 2nd Day*** (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80725-R)
w/Fan and Heatsink, 3 Years Manufacturer Warranty $525.00

(http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/PreShoppingCart.jsp?pcd=80725-R&d1=AMD+Athlon+64+X2+4200%2B+Processor+Socket+939+Retail+***Free+2nd+Day***&pc=525&qlmt=1)

All prices in US dollars. Even still the performance difference is tremendous and well worth the difference in dollar amount.

What sorts of CPU's are in your work machine?

edit: left the 2.8ghz p4 out because it's not really even an option these days.

alesmav
07-19-2005, 10:21 PM
Could someone please post some ACTUAL results with the X2. How much faster does it render. I have pentium 2.4 at the moment. Sisoftware Sandra says the AMD 64 X2 4400+ is aboot 3 times faster that my CPU. Can I expect same speed increase in rendering too?

ALES

motoxpress
07-19-2005, 10:33 PM
Could someone please post some ACTUAL results with the X2. How much faster does it render. I have pentium 2.4 at the moment. Sisoftware Sandra says the AMD 64 X2 4400+ is aboot 3 times faster that my CPU. Can I expect same speed increase in rendering too?

ALES

This (http://techreport.com/reviews/2005q2/athlon64-x2/index.x?pg=8%20) is the best test we have so far. I am bulding a 4200+ setup for someone else in the next week and can run some cinebench on it.

gl

igami
07-20-2005, 12:36 AM
This (http://techreport.com/reviews/2005q2/athlon64-x2/index.x?pg=8%20) is the best test we have so far. I am bulding a 4200+ setup for someone else in the next week and can run some cinebench on it.

On the website, I see the 4200+ and 4800+. Is there another chart with the 4400+?


Does anyone have a Zalman 7700 Fan? I like to hear some comments if anyone has one. I'm planning on buying one for my current p4 3.2.

lots
07-20-2005, 06:00 AM
I have 2 Zalman 7700-CUs in my system. They both work excellently and I cannot hear them above the 2 80mm fans in the system (heck i cant hear the 120mms over the 80s either :P)

SimonPickard
07-20-2005, 07:44 AM
"i have my 4400 OC'd to 2.7GHtz on it and its great."

wow! good work! what cpu cooling do you have please?

Regards,
Simon

alesmav
07-20-2005, 08:47 AM
On the website, I see the 4200+ and 4800+. Is there another chart with the 4400+?


Well, I guess the 4400 would be in the middle :).

ALESS

TETRAGRAMMATON
07-20-2005, 02:49 PM
Today seems that AMD is going to announce two Dual Core Athlon 64 X2 processors:athlon 64 3800+ and 4000+.
I think the last one is the best choice because it will be the cheappest with 1MB*2 cache.

igami
07-20-2005, 05:14 PM
I have 2 Zalman 7700-CUs in my system. They both work excellently and I cannot hear them above the 2 80mm fans in the system (heck i cant hear the 120mms over the 80s either :P)


That is Great! I ordered it last night and I can't wait to install it on my comp. Did you use Artic Silver 5 with it or the same grease that comes with the Zalman? I want to at least cool this processor down to 30's or low 40's because when its full load, it goes up to 70 right now. Scary....I can't even render with mental ray becuz i would hear a warning beep from my Mobo.


Today seems that AMD is going to announce two Dual Core Athlon 64 X2 processors:athlon 64 3800+ and 4000+.
I think the last one is the best choice because it will be the cheappest with 1MB*2 cache.


Thats awesome, more choices and cheaper prices.

lots
07-20-2005, 05:33 PM
There is an issue with the zalman 7700s though. If you have an AMD64 based system, you have no north bridge, and thus the CPU socket is fairly close to the RAM. I cannot install ram in my first two slots on each CPU without removing the Heatsinks.

igami
07-20-2005, 06:54 PM
There is an issue with the zalman 7700s though. If you have an AMD64 based system, you have no north bridge, and thus the CPU socket is fairly close to the RAM. I cannot install ram in my first two slots on each CPU without removing the Heatsinks.


The zalman site has a list of mobo's that are compatible and incompatible with the 7700. ZALMAN SITE (http://www.zalman.co.kr/)

incase anyone is interested and check the list before buying.

ambient-whisper
07-25-2005, 03:24 PM
edit: left the 2.8ghz p4 out because it's not really even an option these days.

right. it is a dual core, so it does just fine in multi tasking. most processors today do just fine. hell even 2 years ago when most were using amds 2400, or pentiums 2.4ghz i was on a p3 800 with 768 ram. for modelling and texturing i didnt need more at the time. reason being is that the videocard was making the biggest difference for interactive work. then when i jumped up to a 2.4 ghz, sure it was a nice jump, but it didnt make THAT much of a difference in my work. the largest change was the amount of polys i could push in zbrush because i could put in more ram into the new machine ( the old one could only hold a max of 768 :) )

games were probably the largest area that benefited from the upgrade. everything else much less so.

and considering all my machines at home are around 2.4-3.0 mark, i cant say that its not an option because they all perform great.

the jumps in performance arent that huge nowadays anyway. i can barely feel the difference between 2.4 and 3.0ghz to tell you the truth. ( worked on a dual 3.0 xeon as well, and i didnt feel that much difference from my 3.0 laptop ). at the moment im working on a dual amd 2400 machine and it seems to hold up ok. ( though id rather have my home machine )

render speeds arent really much of a concern because thats done by the render farm. it might make a difference for smaller studios where each machine needs to be utilized to their fullext extent ( ie, as a rendering node when the machine is not in use ). but in many cases the little extra performance you get doesnt really make or break your work.

most studios out there dont have the latest and greatest anyhow. so why isnt a 2.8 D an option for standard work?

mlmiller1983
07-25-2005, 05:09 PM
At the current prices I wouldn't buy anything over the X2 4200+. For the price of one X2 4800+ you can purchase two X2 4200+. If your using them as a workstation and for rendering this would probably be better. Two X2 4200+ PCs networked together could render faster than one X2 4800+ PC.

Apoclypse
07-26-2005, 01:30 AM
I'm planning on etting an X2 4400+ pretty soon. The DFi seems interesting and that is the one i want to get. My question is, is flashing the bios all that hard. the msi boards have a flashing utility that does it from windows. Does DFI have something like that cause I'm not planning on getting a floopy drive just like my current system.

Apoclypse
07-26-2005, 02:08 AM
Oh, I guess I could use winflash. Does anyone know of a linux equivalent?

matty429
07-26-2005, 02:57 AM
At the current prices I wouldn't buy anything over the X2 4200+. For the price of one X2 4800+ you can purchase two X2 4200+. If your using them as a workstation and for rendering this would probably be better. Two X2 4200+ PCs networked together could render faster than one X2 4800+ PC.

I agree also....the 4200 has 512 cache per core....thats plenty...
I'm not seeing where the extra cache helps...

I'm also guessing the lower cache chips might O/C a little better..

My compy is number 5 up on Imashinations Cinebench page (http://www.3dfluff.com/mash/cbtop.php)

He has it listed as a 4800...I guess I didn't put oc'd 4200 in the notes

but yeah...I'd like to hear about how and where the extra cache would actually come in handy...

I think the extra money should be spent on ram myself...

I'll tell you this : any x2 will run at 2.4 ghz with flying colors.....

Iv'e tested mine stable at 2.63...but I value the chip too much to keep it there..

mlmiller1983
07-26-2005, 03:12 AM
I agree also....the 4200 has 512 cache per core....thats plenty...
I'm not seeing where the extra cache helps...

I'm also guessing the lower cache chips might O/C a little better..

My compy is number 5 up on Imashinations Cinebench page (http://www.3dfluff.com/mash/cbtop.php)

He has it listed as a 4800...I guess I didn't put oc'd 4200 in the notes

but yeah...I'd like to hear about how and where the extra cache would actually come in handy...

I think the extra money should be spent on ram myself...

I'll tell you this : any x2 will run at 2.4 ghz with flying colors.....

Iv'e tested mine stable at 2.63...but I value the chip too much to keep it there..

the extra cache doesn't really significantly help much and doesn't justify the price and the 4200 or even 4400 if you chose to buy it can easily be overclocked to 2.4GHz. Every review on the net I've seen has shown very little difference in rendering speed from the 512KB to 1MB of cache. I am very excited at the number the X2s are getting and can't wait to get my hands on one, or two.:thumbsup:

MadMax
07-26-2005, 03:54 AM
My question is, is flashing the bios all that hard.


No, flashing a bios isn't hard at all.

BUT......

you do have to be capable of following very specific directions.

look at the vendors site, read the flashing instructions and make sure you are properly prepared in advance before you start.

evanfotis
07-29-2005, 12:11 PM
Invading this thread just to ask the gurus here a relative question.
I know its not apples to apples but, is there any perfomance test or has anyone experience on how an AMD X2 4400 would stack against a dual Intel Xeon ~3ghz?
Applications of concern would be AE, 3dsmax.
TIA

mlmiller1983
07-29-2005, 04:33 PM
I'm sticking with my main workstation being Dual Xeon Noconas mostly because I have AGP Quadro 4000, and a Matrox RT.X100(ty NCCH-DL) and neither one will go with any Nforce 4 Board. I want to use the X2s as renderfarms. I am going to wait for the X2 3800+ at $350 a pop. Seeing the performance difference between the the 4200+ thru 4800+ in real world benchmarking the 3800+ will not dissapoint.

motoxpress
07-29-2005, 04:35 PM
Invading this thread just to ask the gurus here a relative question.
I know its not apples to apples but, is there any perfomance test or has anyone experience on how an AMD X2 4400 would stack against a dual Intel Xeon ~3ghz?
Applications of concern would be AE, 3dsmax.
TIA

This (http://techreport.com/reviews/2005q2/athlon64-x2/index.x?pg=8%20) is a 3DS 7 test that includes most every flavor of workstation class cpu.

I ran cinebench on the 4200+ I just built and it came in right at the same speed as a dual 3.0 Xeon.


-gl

mlmiller1983
07-29-2005, 04:57 PM
This (http://techreport.com/reviews/2005q2/athlon64-x2/index.x?pg=8%20) is a 3DS 7 test that includes most every flavor of workstation class cpu.

I ran cinebench on the 4200+ I just built and it came in right at the same speed as a dual 3.0 Xeon.


-gl

Does hyperthreading even make a difference in cinebench when it comes to xeons?

imashination
07-29-2005, 06:11 PM
Does hyperthreading even make a difference in cinebench when it comes to xeons?

Yup, ~20% faster

rebo
07-29-2005, 11:09 PM
Looks like the dual cores are really hitting good numbers on imash's excellent database. My 4400+ @ 2.55 Ghtz is currently 3rd place. I'd love to see some 4800 results or some dual dual core opteron results.

http://www.3dfluff.com/mash/cbtop.php

mlmiller1983
07-30-2005, 03:43 PM
I think the upcoming 3800+ X2s would be great for renderfarms. If you at the performance difference bewteen the 4200+ and 4600+ then 3800+ shouldn't be that far behind in terms of rendering speed.

deathman20
08-02-2005, 05:56 PM
You should consider a motherboard with two PCI Express slots, good and economic choice'll be 2x GeForce 6800/256DDR/ in SLI mode, it'll give you powerfull system with circa 512 Mb graphic memory.

Actually you still have only 256mb of graphic memory if in SLI mode. Since one card does one half the screen and the other does the other half. You still are using all the same textures loaded on both cards to render it.

Getting a SLI system is great for Gaming but the question is will 3D Application software use the SLI at all to its advantage for view port renderings?

As for system if you want a good start on a new system get the X2 4400 (2x 1mb cache) and get at least 2 gigs of ram starting (if you are going to run 64-bit XP might consider getting 4 gigs in the future then). Also video card if you want the latest and greatest power hound might as well get the high end 7800 card. If not you can pick up 6800's with about half the price and around half the overall power.

igami
08-02-2005, 08:03 PM
Actually you still have only 256mb of graphic memory if in SLI mode. Since one card does one half the screen and the other does the other half. You still are using all the same textures loaded on both cards to render it.

Getting a SLI system is great for Gaming but the question is will 3D Application software use the SLI at all to its advantage for view port renderings?

As for system if you want a good start on a new system get the X2 4400 (2x 1mb cache) and get at least 2 gigs of ram starting (if you are going to run 64-bit XP might consider getting 4 gigs in the future then). Also video card if you want the latest and greatest power hound might as well get the high end 7800 card. If not you can pick up 6800's with about half the price and around half the overall power.


Thats a good point deathman regarding if 3D application software use the SLI to its advantage. I like to know if maybe Maya 7 has that in the future.

Also, I am still planning on the Athlon X2 4400+. Although, the price is still above the 500 range. The 3800+ is out, and I was wondering if that is a good investment for rendering? I want the 4400+ due to the fact it will render faster than the 3800+. But I haven't seen the numbers and I don't if its a dramatic difference between 4400+ and 3800+ rendering time. Maybe overclocking the 3800+ to be a 4400+ speed?

As for the graphics card, does ATI have any new card coming out that can compares to the 7800 or maybe better?

yalcinaydin
08-02-2005, 08:26 PM
All Athlon64 processors are cooler than Intel's Prescot based CPUs and in near future Intel will change again its platform (probably today's notebook processors' platform) to increase high power consumption and heat production and also AMD has better performance in 3D rendering.

AMD's Athlon64 X2 series vs Intel again in 3D rendering:
http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_con...id=a64x2&page=7 (http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=a64x2&page=7)

yalcinaydin
08-02-2005, 08:30 PM
...Also, I am still planning on the Athlon X2 4400+. Although, the price is still above the 500 range. The 3800+ is out, and I was wondering if that is a good investment for rendering? I want the 4400+ due to the fact it will render faster than the 3800+. But I haven't seen the numbers and I don't if its a dramatic difference between 4400+ and 3800+ rendering time. Maybe overclocking the 3800+ to be a 4400+ speed?...
Here are the numbers:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2484&p=11
it's very successful for just 354$ and can be o/c to 2.4GHz (default: 2.0GHz)
this's my next upgrade CPU:thumbsup:

igami
08-02-2005, 09:09 PM
Here are the numbers:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2484&p=11
it's very successful for just 354$ and can be o/c to 2.4GHz (default: 2.0GHz)
this's my next upgrade CPU:thumbsup:

Very nice numbers for that price. But I also read something regarding a possibility of a athlon x2 4000+ with 1mb cache x 2. If that's the case, maybe that would be a better option for me. Maybe cost $399 or cheaper would sound extremely nice and affordable.

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