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RocketR
07-13-2005, 05:49 PM
I am in the market for a new computer. I have a very large budget. I would like it to be a dream machine. I am trying to decide between custom building my own PC or buying a Powermac. I was wondering if you guys could post some suggestions with most of the specs of what you would recommend. It would be of great help. Thanks

rawshark
07-13-2005, 06:20 PM
I suggest you read this thread (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=257252)

MadMax
07-13-2005, 07:52 PM
Want a dream machine, call BoXX.

from what I have seen, very few people build their own correctly or understand the hardware/software well enough to really know what they are doing and get it optimal.

Ed Caracappa
07-13-2005, 08:08 PM
RocketR,

Feel free to give me a call. I'd be happy to help you out.

Ed

SweetDreamz
07-13-2005, 08:47 PM
What are your goals with this machine?

RocketR
07-15-2005, 12:33 AM
My goals are to be able to do computer graphics along with video editing. Most of the computer graphics would be models and graphics from my films. I have heard a lot of great reviews of the new Mac OS and the Power Mac G5 but I am not sure if a PC or a Mac would be better for my uses.

Ed Caracappa
07-15-2005, 01:01 PM
What software are you planning on using?

RocketR
07-15-2005, 02:55 PM
I am not really sure of the 3D software yet, but I am going to be using Photoshop, Avid Xpress Pro, and the Final Cut Production Suite (if I get a Mac).

-NG-
07-15-2005, 03:44 PM
What software are you planning on using?

Ed does boxx also deliveres in europe?

Ed Caracappa
07-15-2005, 04:05 PM
We deliver world wide.

enygma
07-15-2005, 04:16 PM
I am not really sure of the 3D software yet, but I am going to be using Photoshop, Avid Xpress Pro, and the Final Cut Production Suite (if I get a Mac).
I'll just throw my 2 cents in here. If you are planning on heavily using the Final Cut Suite, then I would highly suggest getting a Mac. The money you save for the quality of software you get there alone makes it worth it. I run a combination of Maya and the Apple Production Suite (same as final cut suite with earlier software versions) on my Powerbook. Needless to say, it is a hell of a setup. I wouldn't trade my Final Cut, Motion and DVD Studio for much else. If I was to upgrade to highend video today, I would probably see myself with a highend Avid suite on a dual Xeon system, but other than that, the G5 and Final Cut Suite is probably your best deal.

MadMax
07-15-2005, 07:32 PM
I'll just throw my 2 cents in here. If you are planning on heavily using the Final Cut Suite, then I would highly suggest getting a Mac. The money you save for the quality of software you get there alone makes it worth it.



Not really. Final Cut Pro is not any real savings over Avid ExpressHD. Last I saw, Final Cut was like 1295.00 or so, Avid carried a tag of 1695.00. I've seen better sdale prices for Avid than Final Cut.

Featurewise the two packages are almost identical. One major difference, and it's a really ridiculous one to harp on is that currently Avid doesn't have the consumer HDV, and Final Cut does.

HDV will be added in apparently a free update.

Between the two apps, Avid is the industry standard.

enygma
07-15-2005, 08:17 PM
Final cut pro is just one package. Final Cut Studio is a group of packages and retails for $1299, which includes Final Cut Pro 5 ($999), Motion 2 ($299), DVD Studio Pro 4 ($499) and Soundtrack Pro ($299).

I do agree that Avid tends to be industry standard, but this is mainly due to the marriage of the highend software and their real-time processing hardware last I checked, which can retail in the 10k+ range. (EDIT: Although it isn't unheard of to do video editing in motion picture using software like FCP or Avid ExpressHD)

The idea that I was presenting is that if you incorporate a program like Maya into the mix on a Mac, you can have a pretty comprehensive all in one workstation for a decent price.

MadMax
07-15-2005, 08:37 PM
Final cut pro is just one package. Final Cut Studio is a group of packages and retails for $1299, which includes Final Cut Pro 5 ($999), Motion 2 ($299), DVD Studio Pro 4 ($499) and Soundtrack Pro ($299).


So like Avid, it comes with extra apps. meaning my comparison is an accurate assesment.


I do agree that Avid tends to be industry standard, but this is mainly due to the marriage of the highend software and their real-time processing hardware last I checked, which can retail in the 10k+ range. (EDIT: Although it isn't unheard of to do video editing in motion picture using software like FCP or Avid ExpressHD)


Somewhat of an irrelevant point to make. It has little bearing on the two packages really, which BTW are quite comparable feature wise.


The idea that I was presenting is that if you incorporate a program like Maya into the mix on a Mac, you can have a pretty comprehensive all in one workstation for a decent price.


But you fail to mention some facts like poor 3rd party support for application plugins for Maya or other non Apple applications. And slightly slower systems.

enygma
07-15-2005, 09:03 PM
So like Avid, it comes with extra apps. meaning my comparison is an accurate assesment.
Only, the application you mention (which I assume is Avid Xpress Pro HD rather than Avid Express HD), while costing $1695, is only the NLE software. Now, for an extra $999, you can upgrade that to include DVD authoring, 3D effects and motion graphics, which puts your grand total to $2694, which is now $1395 more expensive than the Final Cut Studio. Only, you will get Avid 3D, which is a very basic 3D package to go with the suite, and Avid FX which doesn't quite give you nearly the control and flexability as Motion, and Avid DVD which, well, you try and compare its workflow pipeline to DVD Studio Pro. I think this is a little more accurate of an assessment.
Somewhat of an irrelevant point to make. It has little bearing on the two packages really, which BTW are quite comparable feature wise.
It is a relevant point when you try to make a comment about Avid being the industry standard. Which I agree with to an extent. Avid tends to be industry standard in their highend solutions, such as film and brodcast solutions. It has been a while since I worked on an Avid suite, but it is understandable as to why it is industry standard.

What we are talking about is 2 different packages than what is used as industry standard.
But you fail to mention some facts like poor 3rd party support for application plugins for Maya or other non Apple applications. And slightly slower systems.
So take the support into consideration. Do you plan on using every plugin known to man? Are the plugins you want supported on your platform of choice? Are there other applications you wish to use that are available on your platform of choice?

As for speed, find me some benchmarks that compare performance of Final Cut Pro on a Mac and PC and... oh... ok, how about benchmarks comparing speed of FCP to Avid Express Pro HD. A little more rudimentary as it doesn't take into account workflow differences and such. I guess the only real way to benchmark is by throwing a multiplatform app like Maya at it, in which case, yes, your AMD will be faster, but speed isn't the only thing that should influence a decision. You weigh your options, software and hardware wise, and pricing.

MadMax
07-15-2005, 09:30 PM
Only, the application you mention (which I assume is Avid Xpress Pro HD rather than Avid Express HD), while costing $1695, is only the NLE software.


Wrong. Better look again. Somic Reel DVD, Sorenson Squeeze and a few others were in the box. Far more than JUST the NLE.


So take the support into consideration. Do you plan on using every plugin known to man? Are the plugins you want supported on your platform of choice? Are there other applications you wish to use that are available on your platform of choice?


That is a very poorly thought out reply considering that virtually no plugins are available for Mac's. LW MAC users and Maya Mac users whine incessantly that COMMONLY used plugins are not supported on Mac. I don;t need every plugin known to man, but it would be nice if they even had the basic common ones.

I guess the only real way to benchmark is by throwing a multiplatform app like Maya at it, in which case, yes, your AMD will be faster, but speed isn't the only thing that should influence a decision. You weigh your options, software and hardware wise, and pricing.


You were the one who said throw Maya in the mix..........

And yes cost is a factor.

Apple costs a bit more. TCO is MUCH higher than a "PC" due to lack of upgradeability. Want the next faster cCPU when it comes out? A PC is the cost of a CPU only, a Mac is the entire cost of a new machine.

PC Much larger choice of software options. Threads on this forum show that choice is a good thing. Some people like LW, others Maya, some Modo, some Silo, some XSI. Apple has very little choice by comparison.

enygma
07-15-2005, 10:21 PM
Wrong. Better look again. Somic Reel DVD, Sorenson Squeeze and a few others were in the box. Far more than JUST the NLE.
So do you feel the quality to price is worth it?

I personally feel that Final Cut Studio is much better value compared to even the likes of the Avid Xpress Pro HD Power Pack which does have the additional $1395 tacked onto it compared to the Final Cut Studio, and all the Final Cut Studio apps are integrated nicely with each other, but at this point, we're starting to get into the realm of personal preference with applications, and we know where those debates go... ;)
That is a very poorly thought out reply considering that virtually no plugins are available for Mac's. LW MAC users and Maya Mac users whine incessantly that COMMONLY used plugins are not supported on Mac. I don;t need every plugin known to man, but it would be nice if they even had the basic common ones.
K, I'll have to look into that. I mainly use Maya Unlimited with bonus tools and MJ Poly Tools. I haven't really looked at other plugins personally.
Apple costs a bit more. TCO is MUCH higher than a "PC" due to lack of upgradeability. Want the next faster cCPU when it comes out? A PC is the cost of a CPU only, a Mac is the entire cost of a new machine.
TCO I find ot be very subjective.

Looking at it from my perspective, I use the Apple Production Suite on my 1.5GHz Powerbook. It works, and it gets the job done for me just fine. Rendering small clips is very snappy, rendering large clips also happens quite quickly. Motion works nicely, although I would love to utilize the G5 processor with it, and DVD Studio Pro is quick to play with, but takes a bit of time to master a DVD as it has to encode everything, because you are able to import clips in as non-Mpeg2 clips.

I could see myself using this kind of setup adn working efficiently with it for some time yet before I really feel the need to upgrade, or just get a faster Powermac period. And this is on a 1.5GHz Powerbook. The way I look at it in my case, if I had the 2.5 or 2.7GHz Powermac, I would be flying for years to come. Sure, there would be faster available, but I don't necessarily need it.

Now, with TCO, it tends ot be higher for those that need the latest and greatest, or just want it. Now the question in the most practicle sense possible, how often do you need to upgrade your PC? RAM I find I upgrade the most, and this cost doesn't change from PC to Mac. Processors however, I tend not to change, PC or Mac. By the time I get around to feeling like I need to upgrade, a new processor socket is available, or max FSB has changed, so next thing you know, I'm buying a new processor, motherboard and memory. Or, what if I decided to chose AMD, and by the time I feel I need to upgrade, Intel has a better chip? There I go replacing the main components again, except for memory in some cases. In either of these case, I'm practically left with a full computer sitting aside and doing nothing.

Another example. I have an uncle who composes music. About the time I got my iMac G5 1.8GHz in November, he got his Powermac G5. Can't remember the speed though. It was almost 7 years of making music on a Mac before he felt he needed to upgrade.

Those are just a few practical examples. If you decide that you need to upgrade your PC every time a new processor comes out, then sure, the TCO of a Mac is huge. If you only upgrade only when you need to, then TCO of a Mac and PC can be relatively the same more or less.

As for lack of upgradability, the only upgrade path that is lacking is in the processors. Memory, video, hard drives, and I believe there are some suppliers you can get new optical drives for the G5 towers, they are all upgradable.
PC Much larger choice of software options. Threads on this forum show that choice is a good thing. Some people like LW, others Maya, some Modo, some Silo, some XSI. Apple has very little choice by comparison.
Of course choice is a good thing, which is why you don't discount the Mac as an option right? I use a lot of Windows applications, and I use a lot of Mac applications. I wanted the best of both worlds. Isn't that choice? The Powerbook and iMac I use mainly at home, and I also use the Powerbook at work. I also have a Dual Opteron 250 I use at work for applications that aren't available on the Mac like RTShader. The main reason I suggest a Mac in the case of the original poster is because the Final Cut Studio was brought in as an option, and I personally love the suite and think it is a great deal for what you get compared to what is out there. If he doesn't want it, so be it. Not his loss or mine if he felt he had better options for his needs.

MadMax
07-15-2005, 10:39 PM
So do you feel the quality to price is worth it?


Absolutely


I personally feel that Final Cut Studio is much better value compared to even the likes of the Avid Xpress Pro HD Power Pack which does have the additional $1395 tacked onto it compared to the Final Cut Studio,


But see I have an issue with that is there IS NOT an additional 1300.00 to tack onto the package. Reel DVD is included, Sorenson Squeeze was included, and there were soem extras I haven't even bothered to install yet.

Although IF you wish to buy Avid HD studio, for 2495.00, you get a whole lot of extras.

And since Express Pro HD maintains the same look, feel and function of say Avid media Composer, I have no problems moving into a job on a 250,000.00 dollar setup seamlessly.


K, I'll have to look into that. I mainly use Maya Unlimited with bonus tools and MJ Poly Tools. I haven't really looked at other plugins personally.


It's been a HUGE issue for Maya and LW owners on the forums. Just because YOU can get by with one or two free plugins, doesn't mean the rest of the world can. How many years did it take to just get Maya Unlimited on Mac?


TCO I find ot be very subjective.

Looking at it from my perspective, I use the Apple Production Suite on my 1.5GHz Powerbook. It works, and it gets the job done for me just fine.


Again, basing the rest of the industry on your personal experience is hardly a realistic representation. Faster faster faster really gets important when you have clients with ever increasing deadlines.

If faster was not an issue, Apple wouldn't be struggling to crank out faster machines. When you have a deadline that absolutely MUST have those few extra frames per second processed to get done on time, latest and greatest or the abilitiy to upgrade becomes critical.


As for lack of upgradability, the only upgrade path that is lacking is in the processors.


Seems like a really important upgrade to be lacking don't you think??? I have socket 940 Opterons on the Tyan K8WE and a few socket 939's of various makes.

If I want to upgrade an older socket 939 1.8ghz system, I can get the latest and greatest dual core X2 CPU and install it for the cost of the CPU. I'm not going to change my OCZ Premium ram. I'm not going to change my nVida 6800 PCI-E video card, or my harddrives or anything else.

But with just the purchase of an X2 I'm going to more than double my performance and then some. for about 600.00

If I bought a G5 1.8 ghz, and then decide I want a new 2.7ghz G5, it's going to cost me 3,000.00 Thats 2400.00 I could use towards somethign else, like maybe a nice Digidesign Digi 002 system for audio production (1395.00) and still have 1,000.00 left over for even MORE studio hardware or software.

That is a substantial difference in TCO.

RocketR
07-15-2005, 11:06 PM
Thanks for all of the replies, especially "enygma" and "MadMax". I'm still trying to see if I got a PowerMac now would it last me a couple of years or if I got a PC say a BOXX would it work to all my needs. I have heard that the Mac OS is far superior to XP Pro and even 2000 Professional. Which one would cover a wide aspect of multimedia better?

MadMax
07-15-2005, 11:33 PM
Thanks for all of the replies, especially "enygma" and "MadMax". I'm still trying to see if I got a PowerMac now would it last me a couple of years or if I got a PC say a BOXX would it work to all my needs. I have heard that the Mac OS is far superior to XP Pro and even 2000 Professional. Which one would cover a wide aspect of multimedia better?


Apple users will tell you that no matter what software it is, Apple is better. from having seen both, I say it is more of a question of 6 eggs vs. half a dozen.

FCP vs. Avid,? Avid is every bit as good as FCP, features ae almost the same and both come with lots of extras.

A BoXX is going to have FAR more options software wise. More 3D apps, more Compositing apps, more editing apps, more audio apps, more general graphics apps.

Mac vs. PC, Mac has no magical Interface. You click icons, you open files. I don;t work with the User interface, I work with the apps.

Hardware, a BoXX would be a far better deal hands down. More choices, more options, and a much better investment for long term use. Like I said, easily upgradeable. A system can grow and "mutate" over time as you upgrade something one year, maybe something next year and so on.

I just don't like the idea of having to scrap everything and buy an all new box everytime you want to upgrade.

Apple has some decent stuff, but their "locked in what you have" mode is a major turn off to all but very small mom and pop shops.

If I was concerned about cost or longevity, I would go with a BoXX hands down.

enygma
07-15-2005, 11:50 PM
:applause: Hooray, another reply... :D
Absolutely
Great!! :D

Now, compare these apps:

Sonic ReelDVD LE (http://www.sonic.com/products/reeldvd/default.asp) : DVD Studio Pro (http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/dvdstudiopro/)
Boris Graffiti LTD (http://www.borisfx.com/products/GRAFFITI/) : LiveType (http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/finalcutpro/livetype.html)
Boris FX LTD (http://www.borisfx.com/products/FX/): Motion (http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/motion/)
Sorenson Squeeze 4 Compression Suite (http://www.sorenson.com/solutions/prod/comp_win.php) : Compressor (http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/finalcutpro/featureoverview.html)
SmartSound SonicFire Pro (http://www.smartsound.com/sonicfire/index.html) : Soundtrack Pro (http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/soundtrackpro/)
???????? : Cinema Tools (http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/finalcutpro/cinematools.html)

And of course, Final Cut Pro to Avid Express Pro HD. Once again, as I mentioned earlier:

"at this point, we're starting to get into the realm of personal preference with applications, and we know where those debates go..."

We might as well be comparing 3D Studio to Maya if you want to debate over which package offers a better bang for the buck, and it is in my humbe opinion that some of these comparisons easily rival the additional packages included in the Powerpack.
It's been a HUGE issue for Maya and LW owners on the forums. Just because YOU can get by with one or two free plugins, doesn't mean the rest of the world can. How many years did it take to just get Maya Unlimited on Mac?
So, and I have already conceded to that point, then again, I also have a Maya floating license and Windows/Linux systems to work in as well, so I don't necessarily have that issue if it were to come up.
Again, basing the rest of the industry on your personal experience is hardly a realistic representation. Faster faster faster really gets important when you have clients with ever increasing deadlines.
Then go ahead and build your faster machines and renderfarms. Then again, I think we lost focus rather than evaluating RocketR's needs for the sake of a pissing contest... ;)
If faster was not an issue, Apple wouldn't be struggling to crank out faster machines. When you have a deadline that absolutely MUST have those few extra frames per second processed to get done on time, latest and greatest or the abilitiy to upgrade becomes critical.
Speed is of course always an issue in the 3D world (Yes, it may sound like I'm contradicting myself), however, it is a point of need. If RocketR had the budget for a large studio, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. We've gone from trying to evaluate a persons needs on a small scale to a whole different topic of discussion.
If I want to upgrade an older socket 939 1.8ghz system, I can get the latest and greatest dual core X2 CPU and install it for the cost of the CPU. I'm not going to change my OCZ Premium ram. I'm not going to change my nVida 6800 PCI-E video card, or my harddrives or anything else.

But with just the purchase of an X2 I'm going to more than double my performance and then some. for about 600.00

If I bought a G5 1.8 ghz, and then decide I want a new 2.7ghz G5, it's going to cost me 3,000.00 Thats 2400.00 I could use towards somethign else, like maybe a nice Digidesign Digi 002 system for audio production (1395.00) and still have 1,000.00 left over for even MORE studio hardware or software.

That is a substantial difference in TCO.
Point of release. The 1.8GHz G5 was a crap deal to begin with. It retailed for about the same price as an equivalent speed iMac and didn't include a nice monitor. That, and the 1.8GHz Powermac was released I believe in October, which, correct me if I'm wrong, at that time, the 2.5GHz dual processor G5 was still top of the line. We are still trying to compare top of the line right? The 2.5GHz PowerMac G5 was released in early June, which I believe was when Socket 939 started going mainstream. Also, I believe this was when the the 3000+ or 3400+ was top of the line. Can't remember, so there is a very good chance that you may or may not have jumped onto the 939 yet. If you did, your argument holds some ground, but not much, because it is still comparing a single processor workstation to a dual in terms of top of the line. I think the Opteron 246 may have been the top of the line at that time.

Keeping with the initial argument though (also keeping in mind that I did admit that keeping a system top of the line provides a lower TCO on PC than Mac, which is why 'need' was brought in), the Mac didn't upgrade to a 2.7GHz until April, so we have a 10 month period where Apple didn't release any faster system. On the AMD camp, being quite liberal with my estimate, lets say that you went with 939 and a 3400+ when they came out. If you were truly keeping up with the top of the line processors as they are released, then you would have purchased a 3500+, 3800+, and a 4000+, or maybe even decided to take the plunge into Athlon64 FX territory, in which case, lets just say the FX 53, 55 or 57 may or may not have been in the cards. Then comes the X2 series, in which case, you already have 4 different models. So how often would have you upgraded, and kept yourself top of the line in that period? How about the cost of each processor during the upgrade period?

Now, I do knock apple that they are slow to update, but this isn't necessarily a bad thing if you are hardcore apple and stick with top of the line. Would be cheaper for ya. If they updated as often as AMD did, these people would go bankrupt keeping with the latest and greatest... :D Either that or they would all switch to PCs if Apple didn't release processor upgrades.

If you are not talking about top of the line and were one of the people that decided to go for the 1.8GHz Powermac, then decide to upgrade to the dual 2.7GHz model later, I say shame on you for purchasing it in the first place. Worst deal ever and you would deserve a massive flogging... :D

If you had a 2.0 or a 2.5GHz DP model, then I would bring into question the need to upgrade to a 2.7GHz model. Then again, maybe the 2.0GHz model was top of the line when you bought it. Then an upgrade may have been long due. If it wasn't top of the line when you bought it, upgrading to the 2.7GHz model would bring even more into question the need to upgrade, and why you didn't go with top of the line in the first place. Maybe they didn't go with top of the line and want to stick with second or third best through the products life cycle.

MadMax
07-16-2005, 12:40 AM
:applause: Hooray, another reply... :D

Great!! :D

Now, compare these apps:

Sonic ReelDVD LE (http://www.sonic.com/products/reeldvd/default.asp) : DVD Studio Pro (http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/dvdstudiopro/)
Boris Graffiti LTD (http://www.borisfx.com/products/GRAFFITI/) : LiveType (http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/finalcutpro/livetype.html)
Boris FX LTD (http://www.borisfx.com/products/FX/): Motion (http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/motion/)
Sorenson Squeeze 4 Compression Suite (http://www.sorenson.com/solutions/prod/comp_win.php) : Compressor (http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/finalcutpro/featureoverview.html)
SmartSound SonicFire Pro (http://www.smartsound.com/sonicfire/index.html) : Soundtrack Pro (http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/soundtrackpro/)
???????? : Cinema Tools (http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/finalcutpro/cinematools.html)

And of course, Final Cut Pro to Avid Express Pro HD. Once again, as I mentioned earlier:

"at this point, we're starting to get into the realm of personal preference with applications, and we know where those debates go..."


Could you please try sticking to the topic at hand? Pointing out the 6 applications you can by for a Mac is hardly the subject.


Then go ahead and build your faster machines and renderfarms. Then again, I think we lost focus rather than evaluating RocketR's needs for the sake of a pissing contest... ;)

I didn't lose focus. He's asked for best bang for the buck, and has asked for something that is going to serve him for awhile. Please note, re-read the thread if you have to to understand it, he's looking for a longer term solution.

To that end, I have suggested cost effective hardware, and easily upgradeable which provides him extended usage for his hard earned dollars.

I have also offered the fact that a BoXX will have a far wider selection of choices in software than can be tailored to his needs.

Apple doesn't meet any of those prerequisites.

enygma
07-16-2005, 02:03 AM
Could you please try sticking to the topic at hand? Pointing out the 6 applications you can by for a Mac is hardly the subject.
I'm bringing into question the value and quality of the 2 packages. On the left column, you have the applications that come with the Avid Express Pro HD, on the right, the ones that come with Final Cut Studio. They are all part of the packages that were originally brought into question, and more of a breakdown as to allowing one to decide which package provides more value for your money.
I didn't lose focus. He's asked for best bang for the buck, and has asked for something that is going to serve him for awhile. Please note, re-read the thread if you have to to understand it, he's looking for a longer term solution.
One thing to note, my reply was intended to be before post 19, so I didn't get a chance to read that reply until I was finished my post.

As a longer term solution, I think both Boxx and Apple would be equally as good, based on personal software needs and plans for future upgrades. I could easily see myself playing with a 2.7GHz Powermac 3 years down the road just as much as my dual Opteron. The dual Opteron I built with a 2 year plan in mind, and I don't intend on upgrading unless it is absolutely necessary.
To that end, I have suggested cost effective hardware, and easily upgradeable which provides him extended usage for his hard earned dollars.
Both Boxx and Apple provide cost effective hardware. I priced the dual processor 2.7GHz model with 250GB drive, 2GB memory and a GeForce 6800 GT DDL for $3699. Dual Opteron 250 with the same configuration with a FireGL V3100 priced on Boxx's site came to around $4020. The extended use you may get out of each system may vary on a persons desire to upgrade, and how bad.
I have also offered the fact that a BoXX will have a far wider selection of choices in software than can be tailored to his needs.

Apple doesn't meet any of those prerequisites.
Except that the option for using the Final Cut Studio was already presented by the original poster, and Macs were made as an option from the rest of his posts. Maybe what is available on the Mac is tailored to his needs, which is why it shouldn't be discounted just because it is an Apple.

MadMax
07-16-2005, 02:51 AM
I'm bringing into question the value and quality of the 2 packages. On the left column, you have the applications that come with the Avid Express Pro HD, on the right, the ones that come with Final Cut Studio.


It's easy to see why this thread is going off course when you can't even keep your story straight. First you claim authoritatively that Avid Express Pro HD is only the NLE program only for the cost, then when confronted by someone who has it, suddenly you question the quality of the product by linking to an Apple product page that hs no feature lists, no technical specs, just marketing hyperbole.


As a longer term solution, I think both Boxx and Apple would be equally as good, based on personal software needs and plans for future upgrades.


This thread isn't about YOUR personal needs.


Except that the option for using the Final Cut Studio was already presented by the original poster, and Macs were made as an option from the rest of his posts. Maybe what is available on the Mac is tailored to his needs, which is why it shouldn't be discounted just because it is an Apple.

The Option for using Avid was also mentioned, depending on which hardware he chooses. And no one is discounting a G5 just because it is an Apple. It was discounted because a BoXX will provide better flexibility and options, a point you do not seem to understand.

enygma
07-16-2005, 04:07 AM
It's easy to see why this thread is going off course when you can't even keep your story straight. First you claim authoritatively that Avid Express Pro HD is only the NLE program only for the cost, then when confronted by someone who has it, suddenly you question the quality of the product by linking to an Apple product page that hs no feature lists, no technical specs, just marketing hyperbole.
Ok, so I say Final Cut Studio is a better deal than Avid Express Pro HD, assuming that it is just an NLE, while it actually comes with other third party software. You claimed authoritavely that Final Cut Pro was $1295 or so, while that is the price of the entire production suite. So we both made a mistake. I decide to actually break down both packages into their individual applications, and personally still find much better value in Final Cut Studio, and you say I can't get my story straight? Wasn't the entire debate on that side about the value you get for the package?

As for marketing, if there is anything in particular you would like me to address regarding what Apple says about Final Cut Studio and the applications within, I'll be happy to look into their claims for you. A lot of what they said about Final Cut Pro HD I found to be quite accurate, even on a 1.5GHz G4.
This thread isn't about YOUR personal needs.
Now... it is about an individuals needs. I think you misenterpreted that quote of mine.

If I implicitly meant my personal needs, I would have said so.
It was discounted because a BoXX will provide better flexibility and options, a point you do not seem to understand.
No, I do understand. I do understand that PCs do have larger choices, and you don't seem to understand the fact that I do understand that. It is also, however, another subjective area. It goes much deeper than the processor used, the upgradability of the processor, or the upgradability of the machine all together. The software available, the Operating system features and security, and yes, to a lot of people the operating system plays a major role. Just because you personally don't, doesn't mean it doesn't matter to some. For example, with Maya, I prefer to use it in Linux under KDE than windows because of some features in KDE that aid me in multitasking. The usability of software for the price. In my case, I just stated the price of a highend Powermac and the price of Final Cut Studio, which is a bit cheaper than the equivalent on PC, with equivalent software. It is just plain good value for performance and performance applications, in terms of the video applications he is looking at (Which FCS and AEPHD both operate on).

Now if you want to discount anything software wise and OS wise that would make other platforms a more than viable option, thats up to you. Whoops... I brought in more factors of personal preference.

The bottom line, and I hate to bring up personal preference, but in this case, because we are talking about to very different platforms, with lots of nice software, it really is personal preference. You can bring all your hardware flexability stuff into the equation, and you wouldn't be wrong, but that isn't always a deciding factor. I'm sure we've gone over a lot of different factors that in the end will end up in a decision, but that is just it. Lots of different factors, and I'm sure we can debate on it all night if we wanted to. I've made my point and I'll leave it at that.

I welcome you to your last word (I know that's what you're really looking for anyways... ;)).

:thumbsup:

MadMax
07-16-2005, 04:37 AM
Ok, so I say Final Cut Studio is a better deal than Avid Express Pro HD, assuming that it is just an NLE, while it actually comes with other third party software. You claimed authoritavely that Final Cut Pro was $1295 or so, while that is the price of the entire production suite. So we both made a mistake.


I made no mistake. I compared the 1295.00 price for FCP to Avid Pro HD because it ws a comparable package with similar programs. If you are confused just ask. after all you were the one that said for 1695.00 you only got the Avid NLE, I made no such comment about FCP nor implied it.


As for marketing, if there is anything in particular you would like me to address regarding what Apple says about Final Cut Studio and the applications within, I'll be happy to look into their claims for you. A lot of what they said about Final Cut Pro HD I found to be quite accurate, even on a 1.5GHz G4.

No offense but I'd rather see real results, not more Apple marketing Hype which rarely reflects reality.

enygma
07-16-2005, 07:41 AM
I compared the 1295.00 price for FCP to Avid Pro HD because it ws a comparable package with similar programs.
Final Cut Pro is not the Final Cut Suite. Final Cut Pro is included in the Final Cut Suite, and like I mentioned earlier, Final Cut Pro is $999. Final Cut Pro doesn't come with Soundtrack, Motion or DVD Studio Pro. The Final Cut Suite, which includes all the applications I mentioned is $1299. It is the suite that I compared to Avid Express Pro HD from the start, and the only reason I mentioned Avid Express Pro HD as only an NLE is because I didn't spot the link mentioning the third party programs available in it (which I found near the bottom of the overview page), which I also later corrected, which:
I decide to actually break down both packages into their individual applications, and personally still find much better value in Final Cut Studio
Capische?

I use the Apple Production Suite myself, which is essentially the same as Final Cut Studio, just older versions. Instead of Final Cut Pro 5, I use Final Cut Pro 4.5, which included a pretty rudimentary version of Soundtrack. From what I have seen so far, it looks like they made some major improvements in Soundtrack, and more than justifies the separation from Final Cut Pro into its own package, which only makes a difference if you plan on separately purchasing it. APS also comes with Motion while the Final Cut Suite has Motion 2. Motion is a hell of a nice and fast motion graphics package, and it looks like they added a few nice little bells and whistles in Motion 2. And of course, DVD Studio Pro, which I think is one of the most comprehensive DVD authoring solution I have used. Then again, it is the only professional authoring program I've used. APS comes with DVD Studio Pro 3 while the Apple Production Suite comes with DVD Studio Pro 4. I guess the main things they added over what I have in version 3 are distributed rendering, HD DVD support through H.264, and they seemed to have integraded the A.Pack application functionality from APS right into DVD Studio Pro.

So if you have any questions regarding the suite, I can try and answer as best as I can... :D

Wintermute
07-16-2005, 08:32 AM
I haven't bothered to read through all of the back and forth about the apps you want to run etc..whichever way you go, you can do what you want with what apps are available.

I will say this..use what system you're comfortable with. OSX is very nice. I use it at home and work. I haven't used windows in years, so I'm really not one to give an opinion on it. If you haven't used OSX at all, find an Apple store, or better yet find a computer lab or something with macs so you can sit and play for a bit.

Just take into consideration how much anti virus software, mal/spy/adware you want to deal with. It doesn't matter how upgradable or how fast your hardware is when you need those extra frames per second to get a job done now, if a worm crashes the whole thing.

I'm not saying OSX is without its flaws, it can be nearly as vulnerable as a windows machine if you get the settings messed up. Just thought I'd make a small note of the security issues that seem to pop up with too much frequency.

it's an interesting debate to say the least, and amazingly, it's still civil!!

if your budget is big enough..buy both! :D
run Maya on the BOXX and FCP on the Mac

MadMax
07-16-2005, 07:25 PM
Just take into consideration how much anti virus software, mal/spy/adware you want to deal with. It doesn't matter how upgradable or how fast your hardware is when you need those extra frames per second to get a job done now, if a worm crashes the whole thing.



This is a very large misconception. On the PC side you can run Ad-Aware Pro or the free version, and AVG, Pro or free version, set them for automatic updates and scheduled checks and be done with it.

No fiddling, no time wasted on dealing with anything. The only time is spent downloading, (less than a couple of minutes each, installing (barely more thna the time to download) and setup, maybe a few minutes each the first time.


Period.

MadMax
07-16-2005, 07:30 PM
Final Cut Pro is not the Final Cut Suite. Final Cut Pro is included in the Final Cut Suite, and like I mentioned earlier, Final Cut Pro is $999. Final Cut Pro doesn't come with Soundtrack, Motion or DVD Studio Pro. The Final Cut Suite, which includes all the applications I mentioned is $1299. It is the suite that I compared to Avid Express Pro HD from the start, and the only reason I mentioned Avid Express Pro HD as only an NLE is because I didn't spot the link mentioning the third party programs available in it (which I found near the bottom of the overview page), which I also later corrected


Why are you continuing to obfuscate this thread with nonsense? How many times to do you need to be told in simple english I gave a price for the package that I knew was a software bundle? And that you clearly admitted that you didn't know anything about and only provided info based on following a link on a website?

Ar least I had my facts straight on BOTH packages.

enygma
07-16-2005, 07:46 PM
No you didn't have your facts straight on Final Cut Studio because almost everything you said to this point, starting from your first post regarding the price of Final Cut Pro was misinformed. When you buy Final Cut Pro, you just get Final Cut pro and a few smaller apps, which in the case of Avid Express Pro HD, are separate 3rd party apps all together.

Like you initially said:
Final Cut Pro is not any real savings over Avid ExpressHD. Last I saw, Final Cut was like 1295.00 or so, Avid carried a tag of 1695.00. I've seen better sdale prices for Avid than Final Cut.

Featurewise the two packages are almost identical. One major difference, and it's a really ridiculous one to harp on is that currently Avid doesn't have the consumer HDV, and Final Cut does.

HDV will be added in apparently a free update.
You said Final Cut Pro was $1295, and you compared Final Cut Pro directly to Avid Express Pro HD. You expect me to assume that Avid Express Pro HD includes some applications similar to what Final Cut Studio offers when you don't even make that comparison?

Furthermore, you go as far as saying that the 2 packages are identical, when they are far from it in functionality, if you are comparing the Final Cut Studio to Avid Express Pro HD. Then you compare just the NLE parts of the packages and downplay a major benefit of FCP and say that even then, Avid Express Pro HD is still worth the additional $300 in price compared to Final Cut Studio.

C'mon, if there is any nonsense going on by me, I would like to see it if I haven't corrected it already. I'm just tired of seeing your BS without anything to back it up. You knew it was a software bundle. I didn't. I later corrected that and compared the features of the 2 software bundles, and I'm spreading nonsense? Honestly, sometimes I don't think you are reading things right.

MadMax
07-16-2005, 08:11 PM
No you didn't have your facts straight on Final Cut Studio because almost everything you said to this point, starting from your first post regarding the price of Final Cut Pro was misinformed. When you buy Final Cut Pro, you just get Final Cut pro and a few smaller apps, which in the case of Avid Express Pro HD, are separate 3rd party apps all together.

You expect me to assume that Avid Express Pro HD includes some applications similar to what Final Cut Studio offers when you don't even make that comparison?

C'mon, if there is any nonsense going on by me, I would like to see it if I haven't corrected it already. I'm just tired of seeing your BS without anything to back it up. You knew it was a software bundle. I didn't.

I later corrected that and compared the features of the 2 software bundles, and I'm spreading nonsense?

Honestly, sometimes I don't think you are reading things right.


I've tried to be decent with you, in spite of your snotty little jabs, but frankly I've had enough of your nonsense. I've made it quite clear I was comparing the FCP bundle to the Avid bundle. You have been told as much in several posts but still you fail to comprehend such a simple concept and continue to badger me about being wrong, misinformed and then you strike into personal insults.

ENOUGH ALREADY.

I didn't say studio....Boo frikken hoo. get over it. How many times do you need to be told before you actually understand something? I'm pretty sure that everyone else in this thread figured it out 2 pages ago.

stick to the topic or leave.

If you would like to stick to topic, then give some examples of why you think FCP Studio is better. Be specific. No one is interested in your opinion on what you think I was wrong about, stick to the subject.

enygma
07-16-2005, 09:54 PM
Now, in the correct order of events... AND in context:

Not really. Final Cut Pro is not any real savings over Avid ExpressHD. Last I saw, Final Cut was like 1295.00 or so, Avid carried a tag of 1695.00. I've seen better sdale prices for Avid than Final Cut.

Featurewise the two packages are almost identical. One major difference, and it's a really ridiculous one to harp on is that currently Avid doesn't have the consumer HDV, and Final Cut does.

HDV will be added in apparently a free update.
Final cut pro is just one package. Final Cut Studio is a group of packages and retails for $1299, which includes Final Cut Pro 5 ($999), Motion 2 ($299), DVD Studio Pro 4 ($499) and Soundtrack Pro ($299).
So like Avid, it comes with extra apps. meaning my comparison is an accurate assesment
Only, the application you mention (which I assume is Avid Xpress Pro HD rather than Avid Express HD), while costing $1695, is only the NLE software. Now, for an extra $999, you can upgrade that to include DVD authoring, 3D effects and motion graphics, which puts your grand total to $2694, which is now $1395 more expensive than the Final Cut Studio. Only, you will get Avid 3D, which is a very basic 3D package to go with the suite, and Avid FX which doesn't quite give you nearly the control and flexability as Motion, and Avid DVD which, well, you try and compare its workflow pipeline to DVD Studio Pro. I think this is a little more accurate of an assessment.
Wrong. Better look again. Somic Reel DVD, Sorenson Squeeze and a few others were in the box. Far more than JUST the NLE.
So do you feel the quality to price is worth it?

I personally feel that Final Cut Studio is much better value compared to even the likes of the Avid Xpress Pro HD Power Pack which does have the additional $1395 tacked onto it compared to the Final Cut Studio, and all the Final Cut Studio apps are integrated nicely with each other, but at this point, we're starting to get into the realm of personal preference with applications, and we know where those debates go...
Absolutely

But see I have an issue with that is there IS NOT an additional 1300.00 to tack onto the package. Reel DVD is included, Sorenson Squeeze was included, and there were soem extras I haven't even bothered to install yet.

Although IF you wish to buy Avid HD studio, for 2495.00, you get a whole lot of extras.

And since Express Pro HD maintains the same look, feel and function of say Avid media Composer, I have no problems moving into a job on a 250,000.00 dollar setup seamlessly.
Great!!

Now, compare these apps:

Sonic ReelDVD LE : DVD Studio Pro
Boris Graffiti LTD : LiveType
Boris FX LTD : Motion
Sorenson Squeeze 4 Compression Suite : Compressor
SmartSound SonicFire Pro : Soundtrack Pro
???????? : Cinema Tools

And of course, Final Cut Pro to Avid Express Pro HD. Once again, as I mentioned earlier:

"at this point, we're starting to get into the realm of personal preference with applications, and we know where those debates go..."
Now if you notice, it is at this point where I ackgnowledge that both Final Cut Studio and Avid Express Pro HD both have various other apps included, in which I pit each app of similar function against each other for you and others to research. But you seemed to miss that point.
Could you please try sticking to the topic at hand? Pointing out the 6 applications you can by for a Mac is hardly the subject.
And I further clarify for you
I'm bringing into question the value and quality of the 2 packages. On the left column, you have the applications that come with the Avid Express Pro HD, on the right, the ones that come with Final Cut Studio. They are all part of the packages that were originally brought into question, and more of a breakdown as to allowing one to decide which package provides more value for your money.
At least I thought we were comparing value of the packages, even after correcting what comes with the Avid suite.
It's easy to see why this thread is going off course when you can't even keep your story straight. First you claim authoritatively that Avid Express Pro HD is only the NLE program only for the cost, then when confronted by someone who has it, suddenly you question the quality of the product by linking to an Apple product page that hs no feature lists, no technical specs, just marketing hyperbole.
I guess I must have been wrong... ;)
Ok, so I say Final Cut Studio is a better deal than Avid Express Pro HD, assuming that it is just an NLE, while it actually comes with other third party software. You claimed authoritavely that Final Cut Pro was $1295 or so, while that is the price of the entire production suite. So we both made a mistake. I decide to actually break down both packages into their individual applications, and personally still find much better value in Final Cut Studio, and you say I can't get my story straight? Wasn't the entire debate on that side about the value you get for the package?

As for marketing, if there is anything in particular you would like me to address regarding what Apple says about Final Cut Studio and the applications within, I'll be happy to look into their claims for you. A lot of what they said about Final Cut Pro HD I found to be quite accurate, even on a 1.5GHz G4.
Well, I thought I was being nice by admitting once again that I made a mistake, and corrected it again for you, and was offering to answer any questions you had regarding Apples "marketing hyperbole"
I made no mistake. I compared the 1295.00 price for FCP to Avid Pro HD because it ws a comparable package with similar programs. If you are confused just ask. after all you were the one that said for 1695.00 you only got the Avid NLE, I made no such comment about FCP nor implied it.
And once again, you ignored my corrections, and still don't acknowledge the difference between FCP and Final Cut Studio.
Final Cut Pro is not the Final Cut Suite. Final Cut Pro is included in the Final Cut Suite, and like I mentioned earlier, Final Cut Pro is $999. Final Cut Pro doesn't come with Soundtrack, Motion or DVD Studio Pro. The Final Cut Suite, which includes all the applications I mentioned is $1299. It is the suite that I compared to Avid Express Pro HD from the start, and the only reason I mentioned Avid Express Pro HD as only an NLE is because I didn't spot the link mentioning the third party programs available in it (which I found near the bottom of the overview page), which I also later corrected, which:...
If you go through the rest, I even offer more help for you, after correcting you again.
Why are you continuing to obfuscate this thread with nonsense? How many times to do you need to be told in simple english I gave a price for the package that I knew was a software bundle? And that you clearly admitted that you didn't know anything about and only provided info based on following a link on a website?

Ar least I had my facts straight on BOTH packages.
No you didn't have your facts straight on Final Cut Studio because almost everything you said to this point, starting from your first post regarding the price of Final Cut Pro was misinformed. When you buy Final Cut Pro, you just get Final Cut pro and a few smaller apps, which in the case of Avid Express Pro HD, are separate 3rd party apps all together.
...
...

Well, the rest was a previous post, which I'm sure you can look up a couple spots for the rest.
I've tried to be decent with you, in spite of your snotty little jabs, but frankly I've had enough of your nonsense. I've made it quite clear I was comparing the FCP bundle to the Avid bundle. You have been told as much in several posts but still you fail to comprehend such a simple concept and continue to badger me about being wrong, misinformed and then you strike into personal insults.
You continually insinuate that I'm trying to derail the topic, even though I'm trying to bring the comparisons much more clarity than initially, and I offer to help answer any questions you have regarding the Final Cut Studio (Well, Apple Production Suite in my case). Heck, I think I see where things derailed. When you said, "after all you were the one that said for 1695.00 you only got the Avid NLE, I made no such comment about FCP nor implied it." You don't need to imply FCP is an NLE, because it is. Final Cut Pro is just the NLE part of the entire studio, which is a separate package all together. Yet, you still made that comment after I corrected myself and compared the studio package to the Avid Express Pro HD package (including 3rd party apps).
I didn't say studio....Boo frikken hoo. get over it. How many times do you need to be told before you actually understand something? I'm pretty sure that everyone else in this thread figured it out 2 pages ago.
I understand the comparison perfectly. However, it is because you didn't say 'Studio', you just changed entirely the package of comparison. Final Cut Pro.

Man, and you say I'm taking the jabs. Sigh...

Now, if you still have any questions regarding the capabilities of the full suite, I'm still happy to help answer as best as I can.

EDIT:
If you would like to stick to topic, then give some examples of why you think FCP Studio is better. Be specific.

Ok, I'll leave aside the comparison between FCP and the Avid Express Pro HD NLE, mainly because I believe that is on the grounds of debate similar to that of 3DS Max vs. Maya.

The firt thing I'll look at though is DVD authoring. FCS comes with DVD Studio Pro while Avid comes with Sonic Reel DVD LE. Now, I'll just explain my experiences with playing around in DVD Studio Pro.

DVD Studio Pro from the ground up is a very smooth and intuitive application. From the get go, you get the option of interface type. Three different options as a matter of fact. Basic, extended and Advanced. If you are familiar with how simple iDVD is for authoring DVD movies, Basic layout can work as simple, and you get a lot of motion and still templates to choose from. What the Basic template will give you that iDVD doesn't though, is give you much better control over transitions, and DVD menu controls, as well as playback controls. You basically have the power to disable certain buttons from functioning on a menu or during an advertisement. You also get to play around with shapes and styles for modifying content of a template beyond what iDVD would allow.

Extended (F2) will give you a lot more control over most of the elements in your DVD project. Things like a track editor, advanced slideshow editor, story editor and script editor. One of the more notable capabilities in the Extended mode is your connection editor. This will give you great control over how all the media is connected, and what button gets you where on the menus. Connections are very easily made, and additional trakes are made very easy to add.

The advanced (F3) mode from a glance moves a few windows around to add an extra window for simultaneous work. I don't have too much information regarding the advanced mode as I have been able to get most of my work done in the extended mode.

DVD Studio Pro will also allow for import of all Quicktime DV assette and other quicktime assetts. Encoding the video into MPEG2 before importing isn't necessary, and DVD Studio Pro will even encode your imported assetts while you're working. This causes almost no performance hit when working within DVD Studio Pro. Once your project is completed, it is generally 1 last click away to master and burn to DVD. You can even skip the burn step in case you are planning on using dual layer DVD and getting the data replicated elsewhere to DVD.

Now, one nice advantage of DVD Studio Pro, like all the other packages in the Final Cut Studio, is the multi window interface. This can be very advantagous when using Exposť to multitask between applications within the suite.

So how does this compare to Sonic Reel DVD LE? Well, you tell me and we can try and compare features here.

Those are just a few notable features off the top of my head.

Now, we'll take a look at Motion and the closest comparison in Avid, Boris FX LTD.

Of course, not having used Boris FX, it is the closest match to Motion within the Avid Express Pro HD suite because it allows for basic compositing functions. What Motion will mainly allow for though is the creation of motion graphics at GPU accelerated speeds. Things like particle effects will be accelerated by your graphics card. When you load Motion, it will give you a few options, such as starting clean, doing tutorials, using a template or just go through quick tours.

Off the bat, Motion seems like a very simple interface, and the tutorials shed some light on what does what. Things can get quite busy and intuitive, but things are still kept quite simple. Just to highlite a few of the main features of Motion, you get lots of text behaviors to play with from the get go, and lots of control with these behaviors. This will allow for neat effects like text typing on the screen, or appearing on the screen, and can even incorporate the use of particle effects to enhance the look, for instance, sci-fi effects appearing on the screen, or letters bursting into flames. You have complete control over how a behavior will appear, as well as the length of the behavior.

Almost all effects that you add are simple drag and drop. You go to your library, select the kind of effect you would like, be it behaviors, particles, generators, filters, or even live type fonts. Select, drag and drop, then from there, you can adjust the location of an effect, the properties, shape, etc. It gives you heavy control over how you want your motion graphics to look. As an aside, I don't think it has motion tracking like Boris FX LTD has, but it does have key framing tools to allow for some basic video composition. Motion is not a replacement for Shake, but is very powerful for what it does. I would highly recommend taking a look at this package. The UI is beautiful, it is also a multi window interface, and everything you need is easy to find, a few clicks away, and is probably drag and drop.

The templates that Motion comes with are very beautiful, and would be useful in case you just need to put something nice together quickly for a client. If the templates won't do, the program itself has enough resources to get you up and running quite quickly.

Now, Soundtrack, I won't really compare to Sonic Fire Pro, mainly because I haven't used it extensively. What I did use Soundtrack for though was to create an introduction tune for a DVD for our church using a few of thousands of insturment loops that they have available. From what I have been reading, Soundtrack Pro has a bit tighter integration with Final Cut Pro. Take a look at some of the Quick Tours (http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/quicktours/) for a few examples of some of the nice new capabilities of Soundtrack Pro. From what I did use of Soundtrack though, functionality was just as easy as it was with Garage Band. A good sounding clip of music was very easy to make. All was drag and drop. Once I found a clip, I dragges it into the timeline, then dragged the loop so it would repeat for the extent that I dragged it. Then I added additional tracks for more insturments and did the same. The end product was a unique royalty free tune that I was able to use as background music for some of the DVD.

Live Type I won't get into much as I haven't used it much. I haven't really needed to as most of Livetypes font generation capabilities were also included in Motion. LiveType would make a nice tool with just Final Cut Pro. I'll look more into it if you want me to. Functionality in Livetype is similar to that of Borris Graffiti LTD.

Cinema Tools I haven't played around in too much. What I did use it for was to convert 29.97 FPS footage to 24FPS and back. It was a neat experiment, unfortunately, the audio semi so-so matched with the mouth in the clip I did it to. It was worth a shot and goes to show that it is best to record in 24p first, rather than convert to 24p.

Then of course, compressor. I haven't used it, but from what I can tell, functionality is similar to that of Sorrenson Squeeze 4 Compression suite. What compressor is capable of, you can assign preset compression techniques to different video clips in a batch compression. The nice thing is that they include a number of preset compression settings for you if you are looking to quickly set up some batch compression projects. You are not limited in your options though. You can create your own custom presets using all available Quicktime codecs and MPEG codecs to create your presets. Simple interface, and easy to use.

Anyways, if there are more details you would like me to look into regarding the suite, I would be happy to answer any question you have as best as I can.

MadMax
07-16-2005, 10:29 PM
And once again, you ignored my corrections, and still don't acknowledge the difference between FCP and Final Cut Studio.

If you go through the rest, I even offer more help for you, after correcting you again.


There was no reason to acknowldge the difference since I was comparing the bundles, not the the stand alone FCP for price.

Like I said, everyone BUT you got this a long time ago.

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