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steven xu
07-13-2005, 03:22 AM
i often use "save",when rendering 320*240 pixel pic,i saved the FG map,rand load it in rendering 1600,but i found it's always helpless to improve the speed of rendering FG,why~i turnoff the rebuild yet:)

doca
07-15-2005, 03:00 AM
Hi,
does your Max calculate FG again when you change to 1600pxls or it uses stored FG map? Max should use it. It is very big diference in render time between 320p and 1600p, could be more then 20 times, even without FG.
If you render in smaller resolution doesn't mean that FG is faster, it is the same, depending of sample value. 320pxls U can use for prewiew shots if you doing animation, but for final, there is no reason to render all first in 320 just to build FG map,you've got the same number of samples and calculation time is the same. That is my oppinion, and seems quiet logical for me. If someone think different, he/she can post.

steven xu
07-16-2005, 12:46 PM
Hi,
does your Max calculate FG again when you change to 1600pxls or it uses stored FG map? Max should use it. It is very big diference in render time between 320p and 1600p, could be more then 20 times, even without FG.
If you render in smaller resolution doesn't mean that FG is faster, it is the same, depending of sample value. 320pxls U can use for prewiew shots if you doing animation, but for final, there is no reason to render all first in 320 just to build FG map,you've got the same number of samples and calculation time is the same. That is my oppinion, and seems quiet logical for me. If someone think different, he/she can post.

just as U said,i can't find it will be faster when loading small FGmap,so what's the use of FGmap?goodlooking?or be used in same resoultion~?

cpan
07-16-2005, 09:32 PM
generally people save FG maps to speed up animation renderings... so instead of recalculating the full FG map every frame, we set FG Freeze or Rebuild to ON so mray will calculate fg rays for the first frame and then mray will calculate FG only for the places where modifications occured

hope u understood my bad english

-cpan

steven xu
07-17-2005, 03:41 AM
generally people save FG maps to speed up animation renderings... so instead of recalculating the full FG map every frame, we set FG Freeze or Rebuild to ON so mray will calculate fg rays for the first frame and then mray will calculate FG only for the places where modifications occured

hope u understood my bad english

-cpan

U mean the FGmap only used in animation?
U mean if saved the FGmap in first frame,FG will add calculate to the different between 1-2frame?

FGmap is really helpless in still frame??damn!

cpan
07-17-2005, 06:18 AM
U mean the FGmap only used in animation?

usually yes, but you can use it also for stills with Rebuild OFF so it only calculates the places where changes occured (eg. changed the color of a material)


U mean if saved the FGmap in first frame,FG will add calculate to the different between 1-2frame?

yeap, kinda

FGmap is really helpless in still frame??damn!

nope, as allready said u can speed up renderings with the Rebuild set to OFF... and u can also visualize the map in your viewport (don' know if in max u can this) so u can see how the rays are distributed (helps in setting the min/max FG Radius)

steven xu
07-17-2005, 06:28 AM
usually yes, but you can use it also for stills with Rebuild OFF so it only calculates the places where changes occured (eg. changed the color of a material)




yeap, kinda



nope, as allready said u can speed up renderings with the Rebuild set to OFF... and u can also visualize the map in your viewport (don' know if in max u can this) so u can see how the rays are distributed (helps in setting the min/max FG Radius)

I already turn off the rebuild button~! helpless to the speed! if i change the resoultion!
setting the radius i often use the 1/100 of scene!

how the FG speed slowly is! shit!
why not learn it from VR? VR is more faster than MR at this!

doca
07-29-2005, 03:18 AM
yashu
generally people save FG maps to speed up animation renderings... so instead of recalculating the full FG map every frame, we set FG Freeze or Rebuild to ON so mray will calculate fg rays for the first frame and then mray will calculate FG only for the places where modifications occured

this is not true. MR will use one map and will NOT recalculate modified parts. If ya dont believe create floor and wall (in gray) put the sphere (in red) near wall and create Fg map. Check use map and then remove sphere and hit render. Red reflecton is still on the wall althougth there is no sphere- MR used map!!!

COCLUSION: MR clculate whole image (if rebuild is turned on) or use one FG map for whole animation (if use map is checked) and dont recalculate only changed parts.

psv
07-29-2005, 07:15 AM
this is not true. MR will use one map and will NOT recalculate modified parts. If ya dont believe create floor and wall (in gray) put the sphere (in red) near wall and create Fg map. Check use map and then remove sphere and hit render. Red reflecton is still on the wall althougth there is no sphere- MR used map!!!

COCLUSION: MR clculate whole image (if rebuild is turned on) or use one FG map for whole

animation (if use map is checked) and dont recalculate only changed parts.


you have just proved that mr can save a fg map, and re-use it.....(probably rebuild was off..)
fg its wiew dependent , and i bet you didn`t move the camera.....
rebuild must be turned off in order to let mr use a saved fg map , and since there are changes in camera move , like the manual says , it will only compute those changes ....adding those changes to the initial fg map. that`s easy to see if you check the size of the map, at first frame , and at subsecvent frames...it wil grow..

steven xu
07-30-2005, 02:31 AM
you have just proved that mr can save a fg map, and re-use it.....(probably rebuild was off..)
fg its wiew dependent , and i bet you didn`t move the camera.....
rebuild must be turned off in order to let mr use a saved fg map , and since there are changes in camera move , like the manual says , it will only compute those changes ....adding those changes to the initial fg map. that`s easy to see if you check the size of the map, at first frame , and at subsecvent frames...it wil grow..

not only calcalute the changed parts,but almost all~when 320pixel to 1600
but i find set the correct FG Max/min can improve the FG speed faster
i lost the hope in load~ing,helpless~

naik
08-29-2005, 12:29 AM
Okay maybe im a bit late for it but here are my views about that and other Mr points.

1.) Fg map

In my view its not true that MR will change the FG Map
if something changes in the scene
(he changes the map but its totally wrong, and not useless.)
I tested it with a normal room (white) and a box red.
I save the FG Map then i change the box color to yellow.
Render againg nothing changed, move the camera 90 degree
then suddenly half of the room is red and the other half yellow.
So i dont know how you doin this but for me its definately not working.



As i work now for a firm and doing some interior scenes
my chief has warned me of some MR issues.
But i will mention that later on.

2.)
I tried a lot of things in order to speed up the render process
in Mr.
One of the best methods is to play a lot with the different param in
Mr (especially the RADIUS !!!)

Its not true or better its a bad way in order to get good results
only to put the Fg samples high - bad decision.

I had a scene with a sample of 300 and a render time beyond goodness. But playing with the param i could get a much!! better result with an Sample set of 35!! but changed the radius.
(Almost the same with the photon setting for GI)

Also if you are planning in using FG , you can set the GI sample
way down (Photons per sample)

I almost use something like 500 - 1000 when using FG.
But if you have much higher Gi Photon set you must increase the Gi sample too ( perhaps 1000 -2000)

But nomally i get very good result with 500 (perhaps less!)

Another important parameter is the FASTLOOK UP option.
I dont know why "nobody" uses this but u can belive me in some
situations i reaaally speeds up the gathering process.

Its very hard to come in the MR optimization process but in my view
its only a question of a proper setup.

After studying the parameters i could speed up my renderings
generally almost to 600%...


So whenever i can use the FG / GI Map i use it.
For me its like "Knight Riders Super P. Mode" in
combination with a proper GI sample and Fg Radius setup.

My two cents guys...


P.S Perhaps another interesting point would be to dicuss about
the very common flickering affect in MR.
I got some solutions for that, would be interesting what you guys think ?

titopte
08-29-2005, 01:13 AM
FG is view dependant, so if used in animation, it should be recalculated each frame.
You can turn FG not to rebuild in each frame (thick off rebuild) but youre getting odd results.
I am not sure if FG is a good idea for animation, is very very time comsumming to avoid flickerind due to fg recalculation. For stills, although you can optimise it as naik detailed.
You have an extense discussion here (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=128347)
cheers

psv
08-29-2005, 07:28 AM
a verry simple way to `lock ` the fg map for an animation is to render the most` complete` fg map you could get , letting the camera to `see` every visible faces of the geometry in the scene,as the fg map grows,,,,and save it to a file, then .....simply go to the location where your fg map is saved and set the file to read-only(right click/properties..) and set mental ray to use that file, rebuild off.
in this way your animation will be flickering free and a lot , a lot faster....bien-sur without moving objects in the scene
it is true that mr will try to add information to your fg map, but that one beeing read only....the trick will work , and you will force mr to add only a small amout of time to fg calculation..

for stills the fg time is not that critical...
hope that helps:)

naik
08-29-2005, 08:57 AM
So i almost use FG for my interior animations.
Its true that MR will flicker very often.

but there are ways to handle it.
One is the mentioned FG MAP to use, but in my view there will be a bit of flickering still visible.
(Especially at the edges of objects when the cam is rotating around it)

I can tell you guys, the best "trick" is not to save the
animation as an AVI or whatever file.
You have to save it as single / Seq Image files, with no compression.
After that combining all pics into an animation file.

The embedded MAX AVI Algorhithm is nasty, i can tell ya.


One thing to too, if your are using sophisticated
Phenom Materials from the MR Lib. then its absolutely normal that the render time is very comsuming.
There is no way around it, or maybe i dont even know...

psv
08-29-2005, 09:16 AM
hello naik

100% right about not rendering avi-s straight out of max,

that`s common sense almoust.
if you have blurred reflections, lots of shaders , maybe it coud be useful to use a `ray type ` shader , to switch fg calculation(and not only) to a simpler version of your shaders...
being careful with ray offset could help too, (simplerversions of scene objects visible only for secoundary rays, fg ray for example, and real objects visible to camera but invisible for secondary rays.. etc

those materials from mi lib are verry fast versus a standard material they are calling way less shaders during renderings+ they respond far better to light, but must be used only for specific purposes,,,,you are doing interiors so a good way to test that is to replace the material for ..those wall i supose you have in.. with a mental ray lambert, or a Ward one ...you will see the difference.

one neat trick is to use an ambient occusion shader anr to compose it later in post, this way your fg setting can go a lot lower..or use it as a mask between two versions of the same shader...

cheers sorin

naik
08-29-2005, 10:48 AM
Hi PSV,


There are some interesting points you have mentioned..
But one thing is unclear.
What do you mean with Mi lib ?
Do you mean the lume shaders? (Metal,glare,glass)
or something else...


one neat trick is to use an ambient occusion shader anr to compose it later in post, this way your fg setting can go a lot lower..or use it as a mask between two versions of the same shader...



I must admit, i didnt tried this out yet, but i will give it a go.
Also i dont really got problems with Fg.
Im almost satisfied with the results.
Also i can not understand guys using Fg sampled about 1000-2000 or even higher ??!! and after that beeing disappointed about the
Killer Render Time... Or beeing annoyed about it.

Hey whats up?? If you rendering a multi Mill. Poly scene thats the same!

I have never ever rendered a scene ( it was never necessary)
to go higher then 500 - 600 FG samples....
As i mentioned before, in MR its a question of the right settings for the proper scene.

PSV did you work with the Ambient Occlusion Shader?
How about the difference in quality. That would be interesting...

Regards..

psv
08-29-2005, 05:28 PM
ok naik ,

those wrong spelled( mi lib..)where in fact "mib_illum_lambert" , "mib_illum_phong", etc wich if you are using 3dsmax can be found in C:\3dsmax7\mentalray\shaders_standard\include
for max 7, and in a similar dir for max6 *i`ve forgotten the exact name`

those shaders must be un-hidden , they came with max by default but are hidden ...max help claims that`s for a bunch of reasons from duplicating existing functions in max shaders , wich is true, but limitating from certain points of view..., till undocumented , or untested functions,,,,like glare from lume colections....
go to max help/ aditional help/mental ray shaders and you`ll get a full list of shaders existing in that mi file....
be AWARE that if youre doing that on a work computer , withaut backing-up the files , things can go wrong....that`s a common question on mental ray shaders thread on max resouces here on cg talk.....search hidden and you`ll find the exact procedure....
i use them all the time ....

ambient occlusion shader packed in max , maya etc is good but dirtmap is faster for the same quality...in my experience

fg computing time is nothing compared with pure ray tracing time ....for large:) scenes and larger resolutions....:scream:

and an humble advice...bear in mind that max it isn`t the only program out there with mr as a renderer......go on maya rendering threads here on cg talk and you`ll be amazed....
how things can be the same.....and there are some guys wich are real pro....wathever..:)
most of those mr shaders designed for maya work in max:thumbsup:
hope it helps
Sorin

naik
08-29-2005, 05:55 PM
Hey PSV, now i got it, was a little bit confused first.

Yeah actually i though i had unhidden all "shaders" but there are some
which are not hehehe...

"mib_illum_lambert" , "mib_illum_phong",

These two babys here, i never worked with but after your tip i will give it a go. THX.


Yeah the last days i have read a lot about the AO and the dirtmap.
In my view probably very handy or time saving.

bear in mind that max it isn`t the only program out there with mr as a renderer......go on maya rendering threads here on cg talk and you`ll be amazed....


hehe i know buddy, (I think Jeff had converted some shaders from Maya to max, and other guys told me too that many things in MR are the same on other apps.)

Thats true... Therefore we can all take advantage of that instead of
inventing the "wheel" ....

Thx again for the tips.

BTW why is this thread in this forum and not in the main one?
I dont understand the logic here sometimes in CGtalk...
(Headline for this forum :"Post your links to shaders/Materials and plugins here")

I would rather prefer dicussing that in the main forum like other did about MR issues....

psv
08-29-2005, 06:01 PM
yes AO can save loads of time
the neat thing about those maya shaders is that you dont have to convert anything,,,ok just adding a litle apply type in mi file....not always
those two babes ...are more , lambert , ward included.:) ...lambert is fastest for simple surfaces..like a white wall...

ok ,,ciao

Yourworstnightmare
08-29-2005, 06:18 PM
I don't undertand, Max 7 has MR 3.3 and if you have the subscription MR 3.4, why are these lumes hidden, and are they hidden in Maya and XSI. Someone please clarify this for me.

psv
08-29-2005, 06:28 PM
search in max reference ......lume shaders are shipped with max, maya have a converted and `unoficial `version from max`s one..and xsi i don`t know but being the first program with mr as a renderer they should have them too.....LUME shaders are in max from max6 version....mr3.2 , and not all are hidden ....in fact some are well exposed like metal , or glow, etc
mr beeing mr after all , disregarding the OEM those lume shaders should work on all platforms, with slight adjustements...

max help/ aditional help/lume manual

steven xu
09-01-2005, 05:20 AM
special thank you naik!! thanks a lot~

steven xu
09-01-2005, 05:33 AM
naik!!
you often Open FG+GI or only FG? whic h can take the best effect?i often use FG only,it's correct?some one said if U open FG only you will find the blacknoise on rendering pic

another Question:)
i set the max FG radius as the 1/10 of the sence and the min is the 1/10 of max,the max radius is the most reason which effect the speed of FG,and the min is effect the FG pic quality,so i often use 1 or 0.1 as min,how about U?

cpan
09-01-2005, 04:22 PM
you often Open FG+GI or only FG? whic h can take the best effect?i often use FG only,it's correct?some one said if U open FG only you will find the blacknoise on rendering pic

when U use FG only, mentalray doesn't calculate any secondary diffuse/specular bounces so you won't get realistic lighting. This has been addresed in mentalray 3.4 (maya 6.5+, max 8) and now you can use FG with the Secondary Diffuse Bounces to ON in order to get extremly realistic results (much more realistic in many cases than the GI + FG method) and fewer RAM consumption ;)

the GI + FG method works like this:
* the GI/Caustic pass calculates the Secondary Diffuse/Caustic Bounces
* then the FG pass use the GI/Caustic information to create the final illumination (the difference between FG only and FG+GI/Caustic is that with the second way, mentalray also computes secondary light bounces).0


another Question:)
i set the max FG radius as the 1/10 of the sence and the min is the 1/10 of max,the max radius is the most reason which effect the speed of FG,and the min is effect the FG pic quality,so i often use 1 or 0.1 as min,how about U?

well, i never use the Scene Size FG option but instead Pixel Size. This means FG points will be calculated uniformely "on the screen" instead of scene. So to be more specific, Pixel Size FG will greatly improove FG speed & quality especially on big scenes (in scenes where geometry is far from the camera). Another advantage of Pixel Size FG is that you can use the same settings for min/max in every scene, not depending on it's size... i usually use 1.0 / 10 (aka 1 pixel min and 10 pixels max) for detailed illumination. On the other hand, Scene Size Dependand FG is highly recommended with animations ( and Pixel Size for stills) cuz you can speed up renderings by freezing FG points



take care
cpan

naik
09-01-2005, 07:49 PM
special thank you naik!! thanks a lot~

Your absolutely welcome my friend !!! :thumbsup:

I saw this thread very late... besides i dont understand why this thread is in this forum here, and not in the main...???
I would like to see a sticky thread about such MR issues....! :bounce:
Cause there are many many things we can discuss...hehe
naik!!
you often Open FG+GI or only FG? whic h can take the best effect?i often use FG only,it's correct?some one said if U open FG only you will find the blacknoise on rendering pic


Okay buddy here is my view (as i see there are many opinions about that...)

I try always to use Fg + Gi...or better say GI + Fg...:-)
Fg was brought into that Global illumination process in order to
support / assist the GI, and in my view, cause of the common
speckles / artifacts. But at the end buddy our aim is to get a good result, so why not breaking the "rulez".

Also im sure, that the combination of both will increase the quality of the renderings, absolutely
( GI Photon gives the specific clear hard look and FG will smooth it out and make it softer... - very generalized)


another Question:)
i set the max FG radius as the 1/10 of the sence and the min is the 1/10 of max,the max radius is the most reason which effect the speed of FG,and the min is effect the FG pic quality,so i often use 1 or 0.1 as min,how about U?

Dont do that... i always manually set the radius, and never ever use the default setting or this 1/10 rule, never.

As i mentioned before the radius function is sometimes the key for good and fast renderings in combination with GI. After 100 of test renderings i made this, as one of my MR rulez...:)


the max radius is the most reason which effect the speed of FG,and the min is effect the FG pic quality,so i often use 1 or 0.1 as min,how about U

Sorry but i disagree with that, you can not divide Max and Min in my view, they are dependant from each other. I always set both parameters which stands for a limit which Fg rays will be in the radius for the gathering process.
I can hardly explain that, sorry...
As these params are scene dependent its hard to give generalized values. But i often use 2m for max and 1m for min, then i start to tweak...


As yashu mentioned, with MR 3.4 the new diffuse Bounce parameter has been added which is very very cool. And i always make use of it.
But be warned, it will increeease the rendertime!

There is also some other stuff "THE FALLOFF" which will limit
the ray-length distance of the light rays for the regathering process.
In the past i always built up a invisible big box or a sphere which will enclose my scene cause of the effect, that Photons / rays were shoot into the open space and heaviliy increase the render time.
Make use of that new function its awesome and will boost with the correct setup your rendertime too..


Okay to the end one comment to the radius.
I always use the scene radius and not the pixel based radius.


This means FG points will be calculated uniformely "on the screen" instead of scene.


Im dont 100% agree with that yashu, it is correct that the pixel radius is uniformely but the scene radius is that too.
I dont know why it should not be uniformely...
Perhaps there is something that i dont know... but im quite sure about that, otherwise my animation would flicker like Hell...


On the other hand, Scene Size Dependand FG is highly recommended with animations ( and Pixel Size for stills)

How about that? i know that the scene radius is good for animation but why not for stills? I use scene radius 99,9% for my renderings.
Can you explain that more detailed?
In my view for MR users it is more obvious to work with the scene radius cause of the fact that the values are not abstract as pixels.
If i see a scene and have the size realtionships i can almost imagine which values (scence radius ) would fit very well without tryin around.
Also i dont think that the pixel scene radius would fit for all renderings... cause if the scene is totally different (objects) or the render size, that will definately change your set? What do you think?


@Steven xu --> i hope you can use it buddy. :thumbsup:
Also nice would be having once scene and experimanting with that!
Perhaps you with your normal way and settings and i or other mates
with their procedures, that would be awesome!


Regards....

cpan
09-02-2005, 07:24 AM
naik:

Scene Dependant FG allways creates more points on surfaces that are far away from the camera (they look smaller but their size is what matters for Scene Dependant FG) and Fewer on surfaces that are closer to the camera. This way FG will take more time to compute and the results are awkward (better details far away and poor ilumination details closer to the camera). So, Scene Dependant FG is uniformely distributed, but on the "scene objects" not on "screen space"... hope u get the idea :shrug:

On the other hand, Pixel Size FG will compute the same amount of points, not depending if the surface is closer or further than the camera so you get uniformly detailed ilumination and faster FG computing - this is only good for stills cuz on animations the Scene Dependant FG can be reused when objects/transforms are animated in the scene.


In my view for MR users it is more obvious to work with the scene radius cause of the fact that the values are not abstract as pixels.
If i see a scene and have the size realtionships i can almost imagine which values (scence radius ) would fit very well without tryin around.
Also i dont think that the pixel scene radius would fit for all renderings... cause if the scene is totally different (objects) or the render size, that will definately change your set? What do you think?

well, the Pixel Size FG is much "easier to use" than the Scene Dependent FG. It doesn't mather what size the scene has at all, it's just pixels wich mather (for example with Pixel Size, if you change the render resolution to a larger one, the FG computation time will increase.). So with pixel size, *NOT* depending on the scene size, you will allways get good details with 1/10 pixels for example


take care
cpan

steven xu
09-02-2005, 07:42 AM
i test the FG radius with i test,look it below
http://www.52softz.com/1115218289/65_1246.jpg
this scene is 5000*5000cm,and the car is 1500*600,i set the FG max to 10 and min to 0.1,cal by pixel,add only SKY and effect with Xdof~ i think it looks not so bad:)

and i test it in another scene without SKYlight and backround,just only use spotlight
the parameter is the same,so i guess the parameter of FG's radius is right
http://www.52softz.com/1115218289/65_1247.jpg

steven xu
09-02-2005, 08:08 AM
i render the pic above in 5 mins, before these,i test the FG's Radius,look the sample below:

1:FG100 max60 min1
http://www.52softz.com/1115218289/65_1248.jpg

2:FG100 max600 min1
http://www.52softz.com/1115218289/65_1249.jpg

Now you can see,the max over 60 the result is wrong,even the speed is so fast with 1min

3:fg100,max600 min10,result is even looks like a shit
http://www.52softz.com/1115218289/65_1250.jpg

4:i turn off the FG manual and set it auto,
it looks the car want to fly away :)))
http://www.52softz.com/1115218289/65_1251.jpg

5:when last i set the FG's radius to max10,min0.1 , it takes a good look with 3 mins
http://www.52softz.com/1115218289/65_1252.jpg

with this parameters,i begin to add light/material/backround... in scene

i want to know what is the real onnection or proportion between scene and FG size
i can't believe there is no way to help the setting:( only testing and testing???

damn~

another Q:i often render a big scene with 200-400W faces with much raytrace
when i only add skylight and 1-2 spotlight to render it,MR's speed look very good~
faster than VR and FR,LS..
when the light amount over 10,such as omni(even with falloff),the mr speed will turn very very slowly~~~~slowly~~~~more slowly than VR...

how about U?

psv
09-02-2005, 08:41 AM
HEY STEVEN XU

if you wan`t a clear relation between fg radius size and scene size, you should add another parameter ,,scene consistency in other words ..how the geometry is spread across the scene.....a sphere on a plane ,,,,or a forest... for the same scene size you will have two setups....

as yashu mentioned pixel size fg will work better if you don`t want to do testing..again and again...

once you have tested 10scenes you will be able to spot the right settings :) i`m sure about it...

steven xu
09-02-2005, 09:24 AM
PSV,i even think only use pixel to calculate is the simplex way to resolve the FG's problem,but it depend on the much time,i only want to find a balance or rule to setting FG,not only click the pixel button......

naik
09-02-2005, 09:25 AM
Okay guys my view about that...


Yashu i certainly understand your explanations ,but there
is one point which is inconistent.

Scene Dependant FG allways creates more points on surfaces that are far away from the camera (they look smaller but their size is what matters for Scene Dependant FG) and Fewer on surfaces that are closer to the camera. This way FG will take more time to compute and the results are awkward (better details far away and poor ilumination details closer to the camera).

In my view the pixel radius will not work properly for objects which are far away because the radius is based on pixels and not on the scene, so im sure that the scene one is more accurate for that reason.

If not than this would be inconsistent too...

Here are two pics where i tried to compare it.
The first one is scene based with Max 1m and min 0,1m

http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/8853/scene0qp.jpg


This one is pixel based ( i tried almost hit the same values in Pixels and Meter scenes based on the processing points)

http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/5435/pixel2ez.jpg

In my view they are almost the same, but...

First i dont think its true that with the scene radius the objects which are near to the camera are less accurate.
Yashu compare both pics. The Objects in the front are almost 100% the same ( regarding to the P points)

But in the rear of the pic there are slightly differences, one is that in my view the scene one is more accurate (more points)
See the left wall when is goes black as an example...

Perhaps its not a good example but for a rough comparison.


@Steven xu

Nice Pics buddy, but im sure if i had the scene on my pc
i would need perhaps 2 maximun to get a good result and one more to do it "perfect" for my needs.
So its hard to say, in my view its an experience thing.


"once you have tested 10scenes you will be able to spot the right settings :) i`m sure about it..."


What psv said is true, but definately for the scene readius too.


STEVEN XU

The new pics with the red Golf.

Why do you use such exaggerated values for the maxium??
60 ?? Which units do u use? Meters?
as i saw 600 my heart was bumping like hell mate :eek:
hehehe...


All things considered, im sure if there is one experienced MR user who only worked with the scene R and another who only worked with the Pixel R, that at the end the result is absolutely the same...
Just knowing your tools and how to tweak...

regards

steven xu
09-02-2005, 09:52 AM
lol~~special thanks three friends(naik,PSV,YASHU) to discuss this,it's a so nice time,and i learn much from you:)

BTW: YASHU & PSV: said use pixel to calucate the FG,click the pixel as radius,not setting the radius blow?
not setting max & min? by default? 1,0.1?i think it will works too slow by default...even the result is the same.

naik:
i can't see your pic,maybe the pic address is wrong....can you check it?
U said why i set the max radius to 60...hehe,i set 1/10 as scene,bigger can improve the speed of rendering time,but bad effect,you know,always client not given U so much time to render.....why i question this,just want to find the way to speed up FG,it's too slow even with perfect result....

naik
09-02-2005, 09:59 AM
naik:
i can't see your pic,maybe the pic address is wrong....can you check it?



REally???

Impossible buddy...

YOu still got the problem?

ohohhh...

steven xu
09-02-2005, 10:07 AM
look at this......
http://www.52softz.com/1115218289/65_1253.jpg

naik
09-02-2005, 10:08 AM
okay checked the address and it is okay (imageshack)

When i see the pics, then you MUST see them too... very strange..
Hope its visible now...


60...hehe,i set 1/10 as scene,bigger can improve the speed of rendering time,but bad effect,you know,always client not given U so much time to render.....why i question this,just want to find the way to speed up FG,it's too slow even with perfect result....


Hmm, but what is your working unit in max?
Do you use Meters , centim... Inches ?

It seems to me that your scene is like i call "GARGANTUA"..hehe

lol~~special thanks three friends(naik,PSV,YASHU) to discuss this,it's a so nice time,and i learn much from you:)


Cheers buddy :beer:

naik
09-02-2005, 10:11 AM
look at this......
http://www.52softz.com/1115218289/65_1253.jpg
heee??!
How?
Its not on my server either in my pc...
Its on the imageshack server....

So when i update the cgtalk site it must be invisible for me too..
very strange man...

Hmmmm

steven xu
09-02-2005, 10:11 AM
damn,i even can't see your pic....
what's meaning of "GARGANTUA"..???........
BTW:i used CM as default

naik
09-02-2005, 10:15 AM
damn,i even can't see your pic....

Grrrrr!!!

Okay i will post it againg - same order - first one scene R second one pixel R

http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/8853/scene0qp.jpg




http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/5435/pixel2ez.jpg


Hope it functions now...


what's meaning of "GARGANTUA"..???........

HAHA! your so cool buddy - GARGANTUA means a mega mega huge scene (regarding to the scene unit)
somethin like 600Meters * 600 Metes - for a small room...

steven xu
09-02-2005, 10:18 AM
naik~~if i can't see the pic,can U mail me the pic....thanks,my mail is steven_bchs@yahoo.com.cn

because i work for citroen...so,U know,a scene with 8-20 cars will be a horrific thing especially in one scene with other things.......so speed is important....

naik
09-02-2005, 10:21 AM
Still the problem??

MAn that starts nerving me!!!

If it is still not there i will send it to your email...


regards...

steven xu
09-02-2005, 10:25 AM
yes,the problem is still be so so......god save me~~damn~

naik
09-02-2005, 10:29 AM
yes,the problem is still be so so......god save me~~damn~

hahaha...FXXXX! okay i have sent you the two pics.
There you can see that the scene one is in my view more accurate, cause of the fact that it is scene based and not on pixels.
So as an example with your cars.
If you would have the cars in one row and the row would go to the rear of the pic the rear cars would be less accurate with the pixel R than with the scene Radius.
I hope you got my example...

But as i mentioned before, its an experience thing to know which parameters works best for the scene.
and as you mentioned, the SPEED FACTOR is important too...

But there are ceratinly other ways to boost your renderings...

regards...

steven xu
09-02-2005, 10:44 AM
naik,thanks,i receive your mail,and i guess if i can't see the pic ,so do another.
so i paste the pic too,if this can help to U:)

naik render with FG NO calculate
http://www.52softz.com/1115218289/65_1255.jpg

FG with pixel calculate
http://www.52softz.com/1115218289/65_1254.jpg

special thanks naik's pic~

naik
09-02-2005, 11:05 AM
Okay thats cool Steven...

I would like to know if the others cant see my pics too.

Thxs to post the pics.

And once again for the other

First Pic Scene Radius Max 1m Min 0.1m
Second Pic Pixel Radius Max 10 Min 1



Steven, it would be interesting to work on one scene, and see what we can get out of it, regarding the rendertime in Mr and especially which parameters each of us has used.
(Perhaps, first the way and params which each of us prefer or think it would be the best, and at the end we can compare it)
The only problem is the fact of the different machines, but thats only a small problem. In the second step we can change the params and see if it works better.... Hope you got me....


regards...

steven xu
09-02-2005, 11:31 AM
sure,naik,i will upload a scene later ,maybe tomorrow~ let's try and compare it~

naik
09-02-2005, 11:42 AM
sure,naik,i will upload a scene later ,maybe tomorrow~ let's try and compare it~

thats cool, okay im looking forward to that...

Then i can see if my different "Setups" for MR are efficient or not.

Till then buddy...

naik
09-05-2005, 01:15 PM
Hey Steven...

What about your test scene ?
If you dont got a proper one, i will perhaps upload one.

For many tests im going to build up a new interior scene in order to
play around with shaders, textures and MR settings..
It should be quite complex, but it will take a bit before uploading a proper one...
(Now im looking for some real interior pics for some inspiration)

but later on i will definately upload that, so we all can play around a compare our settings...

regards...

steven xu
09-06-2005, 02:12 AM
sure,i am busying last week~so .....
hope your nice scene~Naik~:)
upload it quickly~i will test it and discuss with U~:) good luck~

naik
09-06-2005, 04:01 PM
okay Steven,

Im planning also to make some Video tuts as you can see in the main forum.
Probably i will include it in the tutorial, if it will be a Mr one :)

So hope we can do some testings then..

Cya--

steven xu
09-06-2005, 06:11 PM
god bless you,my buddie~~lol~
hope your scene~:)

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