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at_626
07-06-2005, 10:57 PM
LW8 + Vue 5 for only $495!!!

:sad: ... just bought my LW8 months ago!!!

cyphyr
07-07-2005, 12:05 AM
Great deal
$495 wow thats $104 cheeper than buying Vue on its own!
Humph ... I guess you cant upgrade twice, I upgraded to 8 at the begining of last year to take advantage of the free included DFX compositing package, its still in its box, hav'nt touched it. Hey there's an idea (not expecting any takers .. ). Anyone want to swap a copy of DFX for vue5 infinite? PM me if yor interseted.
Sriously though this is a great deal and I would recomend it to anyone.
cyphyr
ps another option would be to buy an old version leagaly and upgrade from that.

Jonj1611
07-07-2005, 12:20 AM
Hi,

Where is this offer?

Thanks
Jon

cyphyr
07-07-2005, 12:22 AM
http://www.newtek.com/buynow/

Jonj1611
07-07-2005, 12:25 AM
Hi,

Ah right, I see the price if you are not a Lightwave user is $995, hmm might consider it. Is Lightwave easy to pick up? I currently use Cinema4D and Vue 4.22

Thanks
Jon

policarpo
07-07-2005, 07:44 AM
Hi,

Ah right, I see the price if you are not a Lightwave user is $995, hmm might consider it. Is Lightwave easy to pick up? I currently use Cinema4D and Vue 4.22

Thanks
Jon

You'd be going backwards mate. :) It's not worth it. Buy ZB2 instead or get the R9 upgrade at least if you aren't using it... :love:

Jonj1611
07-07-2005, 08:03 AM
Hi,

Yeah, I used to have C4D 9 but had to sell it to create my website, I am currently using C4D CE+(for the love of god!). Anyway on a personal note while the modular system of C4D is good in it's own way, it means that a reasonable setup of C4D, core + AR + TP starts getting expensive. I am trying to explore alternatives, while Vue 5 Infinite is definately on my list. I have never know the problem with LW, some swear by it while others don't like it.

I am just so confused.

Might just get XSI and be done with it :)

Jon

fez
07-07-2005, 08:24 AM
If the buzz is true, 8.5 is gonna keep Lightwave in the game and then some.

Jonj1611
07-07-2005, 09:03 AM
Hi,

Yeah, I have seen some fabulous stuff done on Lightwave, I know the person at Digital Blasphemy uses Lightwave a lot.

But can someone tell me if Lightwave is modular, or is it like 1 package, no more addins to buy and I don't mean plugins

Also does the renderer do GI etc?

And back to my original question, is it easy to pick up so to speak?

Jon

BeeVee
07-07-2005, 09:36 AM
Here is the feature list for LightWave:

http://www.newtek-europe.com/uk/products/lightwave/list.html

You'll note that it can deal with HDRI; Radiosity; hair and fur; hard and soft body dynamics; particles; voxels; cel shading; expressions; subpatches and loads of other things out of the box; and comes with 999 free render nodes for setting up a render farm, plus both Mac and PC licences. You also get unlimited free technical support (by phone or email), and upgrades within a version number are all free (and there have been four so far with LightWave 3D 8. Some have only been bug fixes, but there have been new features added as well, such as new rendering and AA modes, etc.). I'm not a sales person, but I have been a LightWave user for fourteen years so far... :)

B
PS. There are a huge number of plug-ins for LightWave, a lot of them free, all referenced here: http://www.flay.com

digital verve
07-07-2005, 09:37 AM
LW has a history of being used to do fantastic stuff and recently too. It is one app rather than modular (like C4D). The renderer is the best looking for an inbuilt one (has radiosity, Gi stuff), but not amazing at speed. There again, the standalone Mental Ray renderer is no fast beast either.

It is easy to pick up. At least for me.

All apps have their quirks. LW 8 is behind in some areas due to a 2 year loss in development when some key developers left to form Luxology. If the rumours on the grapevine are true, then 8.5 will play catch up and maybe some more. Plus, every point upgrade is free even when a major one.

BeeVee
07-07-2005, 09:40 AM
Also, you should look at our projects list - I need to update it with some new stuff, but you can see where LightWave has been used: http://www.newtek-europe.com/uk/products/lightwave/projects.html

B

Jonj1611
07-07-2005, 09:48 AM
My god, what the hell is that bloody frog doing there!!

Lol, never mind, excellent news, I will have a read-through tonight. I am glad it is just 1 app. C4D is fabulous but the prices of the modules mean that if you buy the whole thing it starts getting really expensive. Others can live with that but I do this for a hobby.

Out of interest does LW do any sort of Net-Rendering?

Thanks
Jon

digital verve
07-07-2005, 09:49 AM
Out of interest does LW do any sort of Net-Rendering?

Thanks
Jon

999 free nodes. :)

Jonj1611
07-07-2005, 10:11 AM
Hi,

Ah, right excellent, I don't have 999 computers but I am sure I could make use of at least some of them :)

Thanks!
Jon

coffeefery
07-07-2005, 10:15 AM
You'd be going backwards mate. :) It's not worth it. Buy ZB2 instead or get the R9 upgrade at least if you aren't using it... :love:

Hi, Policarpo. Not trying to start any app wars (and I hope no one does that too), but could you explain a bit from your experience why it's better to get R9 or ZB2 instead of LW? Thanks.

policarpo
07-07-2005, 02:41 PM
Whatever you do, don't buy anything until Siggraph. Most vendors will be showing off what the next version of their app is all about.

As far as the zb2 comment...I'd get zb2 because it does a great job for detailing out your models. And as far as R9..the SPD is great as are the new modeling tools.

Right now there are so many great solutions out their for artists. You have XSI Foundation for $495 which is a tremendous deal. You have the C4D and modo deals for LW users. You have messiah for $299.

I dunno...i just think there are some great options out there for artists. But like I always say...download the demo of these apps, and give them a whirl to see what they are all about.

Cheers.

Jonj1611
07-07-2005, 02:53 PM
Hi,

Thanks for the comments, I will wait until Siggraph and I do have on the computer at the moment the Personal Editions of Softimage and Maya.

Plus I already know about C4D and I even have a demo of 3D max(which expires shortly)

And before anyone asks, nope, I am no good at any of them. Just thought I would fire them up and see which one I can take my hand to. I can use C4D the easiest. Unfortunately I have never been able to find a demo for LW. Does one exist?

Thanks
Jon

policarpo
07-07-2005, 03:44 PM
I think you have to call NT or pay $5 for it via Safe Harbor to get them to ship it to you. Weird...I know. :)

kurv
07-07-2005, 03:50 PM
I think this is a great deal for people looking to get into LightWave. Just as I said when Maxon released their special months ago, this is a great deal.

If you think LightWave is great now, it only gets better and to get your grubby hands on Vue... this is a deal that should not get passed up.

policarpo
07-07-2005, 03:54 PM
Well, the $495 deal is for existing LW owners (a good deal). Here's the break down on pricing for the rest of the world:

LightWave [8] Upgrade w/ electronic documentation and Vue 5 Infinite - $495
LightWave [8] Upgrade w/ printed documentation and Vue 5 Infinite - $595
LightWave [8] Full w/ electronic documentation and Vue 5 Infinite - $995
LightWave [8] Full w/ printed documentation and Vue 5 Infinite - $1095

So for Jon, he'd be paying $995.00 for the whole shebang...and for that price...well...he could get some sweet deals on other things as well (i'm thinking XSI and zb2 for one).

But Siggraph '05 will define the future for us all ya know. :)

Cheers.

Jonj1611
07-07-2005, 03:58 PM
Excellent, will get onto NT and find out.

Thanks
Jon

SirReality
07-07-2005, 03:58 PM
I've used LW7.5 and Vue 4 Professional together a little bit (really little... I was still too new to 3D at the time to really abuse both applications). I was impressed with that combo, and in addition to LW8's improvements it looks like Vue 5 Infinite is much better than Vue 4 (Give me ecosystems!). I'm looking forward to taking Vue Infinite's trial version on a test drive.

And, if us LW folks have any Vue questions... CGTalk also has a Vue dedicated forum.

Lique
07-07-2005, 03:59 PM
What happen if you already have 8 and only want vue?

RobPowers
07-07-2005, 05:05 PM
I wanted to mention that I use Lightwave 8 all the time with ZBrush 2 and it complements the lightwave toolset wonderfully.

Sil3
07-07-2005, 06:43 PM
What happen if you already have 8 and only want vue?

In that case u go here and place your order :D

http://www.e-onsoftware.com/Order/index.php

Cman
07-07-2005, 07:30 PM
If the buzz is true, 8.5 is gonna keep Lightwave in the game and then some.

What be this buzz then?

architook
07-07-2005, 07:44 PM
Are Vue and LW easily compatable? That is, can you share motion paths and camera views and z buffer so you can composite renders from two together?

The Vue website doesn't say anything about this kind of capability at all. But if Newtek is encouraging it as a LW companion, I expect I just missed something.

fez
07-07-2005, 07:50 PM
What be this buzz then?

Since it would be irresponsible to repeat rumors, so let's just say I have heard the new team has integrated very nicely with Newtekhttp://www.cgtalk.com/images/icons/icon12.gif.

SirReality
07-07-2005, 07:54 PM
I never had any problem loading LW content into Vue 4 (models, anyway)... but, I didn't play with the camera matching stuff at all. Vue 4 Professional was supposed to have camera matching that worked with LW, Max, and one or more other standard 3D packages.On the negative side, I seem to remember some of the features of Vue 4 Pro not to be implemented until a couple of revisions later. I hope this isn't happening with Vue 5.

alvin-cgi
07-07-2005, 11:28 PM
Whatever you do, don't buy anything until Siggraph. Most vendors will be showing off what the next version of their app is all about.

policarpo, 100% agree! For sure there will be more special deals during and after the Siggraph,:eek: should wait and see...

I got my LW8 short time ago, and just about decide to buy C4D and Vue5 as well, but $495 is a great deal:) , I won't mind buy another set of LW... hey Mr NT, can you sell me that $495 deal!! :bounce:

Jonj1611
07-08-2005, 07:33 AM
Hi,

Out of pure ignorance when is Siggraph?

Thanks
Jon

alvin-cgi
07-08-2005, 10:48 AM
:) http://www.siggraph.org/s2005/ (http://www.siggraph.org/s2005/):)

biliousfrog
07-08-2005, 12:19 PM
Many people have praised Vue for being able to load LW files & render very dense scenes but I think that many people are now realising just how bad the LW importers are. First impressions are very good but I feel very strongly that E-on are misleading people with their claims of Lightwave integration. Vue 5 Infinite only fully supports Lightwave models to version 5. It will open newer models but it has serious problems with textures, the only fully supported 3d model format is OBJ & as Lightwave doesn't export OBJ's particularly well (ie. it doesn't retain the texture information) you need to convert the files with an external plugin or app.

I bought Vue Infinite for a very important job which would involve a lot of foliage & buildings (woodland surrounding a housing development). It seemed ideal but after about a month of trial & error I had to give up on my initial idea as Vue just wasn't up to the job. Firstly the importer was driving me mad, the bump maps were importing as 2.5 times larger than they should have been, the buildings were being textured globally via a single spherical map rather than via the assigned UV's, the transparency was doing odd things......I could go on & on.

Secondly it would crash whenever I tried to bake the illumination. The scene that I had contained over 3 million polys & GI, at nearly 25mins a frame I needed to bake the illumination or my 30sec animation would take forever to render. E-on have released a patch to solve the problem now (crashing when using baking & ecosystems) but it was too late for me, I had to render a massive image & animate a simple flyover with after effects.

It's still a very impressive toy but not ready for production. The offer is quite good, I'd certainly consider it but just because they're bundled together don't expect them to work together.

Zarathustra
07-08-2005, 04:37 PM
There are a huge number of plug-ins for LightWave, a lot of them free

mostly for PC. Something as basic as a 16 bit tiff importer has to be hunted for online rather than coming with LW and if you're on OSX, you're out of luck.

I was one of those guys who upgraded with DFX and then sold it on Ebay (I think I got about $300). It's frustrating to see a better deal come along, but that's the way of things.

Every company is throwing crazy specials around now. You really have to invest a lot of time online keeping up with what app does what and for how much.
C4D has a lot of great stuff but I don't hear much talk about character tools.
XSI is gaining ground but no OSX option (along with Max and Messiah).
Maya is very rich but users poo-poo the native renderer and opt for MR, which limits you for node rendering which LW's 999 node thing really is one of it's strongest points and why many may do everything in another app and then render in LW.
LW's modeler is great but hasn't seen much change in awhile and needs to support growing standards like n-gons and other apps' object formats.

There aren't any all-in-one solutions. You have to invest time researching. It's possible to have intelligent discussions online weighing pros and cons of each app without the children busting in praising one option only by pooping on the others. I hope people will continue to talk about these options intelligently and that CGT will allow such conversations and not penalize those who participate in such conversations. The bad apples shouldn't cause the whole topic to be taboo.

TYROT
07-08-2005, 07:18 PM
dear biliousfrog

I was about to purchase Vue after seeing beautiful renders with ecosystem, then eventually i have checked CGT's Vue forums. And you are totally right. There is NO certain LWS connection..I was thinking exactly same thing (adding some foliage and making terrains in Vue)...then i have read these threads and kept myself away.

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=247211
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=252940

(there are serious issues between LW and VUE)

Of course this deal is awesome for budget, but it seems these two applications are not well connected. So you have pointed out very very important issue overhere. Thanks for your feedback.

best

richcz3
07-08-2005, 09:51 PM
Kind of strange that there would be this Lightwave/Vue Special Offer.
There was a beta program E-on started and they sent emails to some Infinite Users. The beta was for better integration of Vue with MAX and Maya. I sent them an email back to consider including Lightwave in.

Vue (Infinite) is powerful program that can render scenes that would cripple LW. But it has serious short comings in animation as well. The timeline keyframe animation needs serious work because currently it sub par. Profiles for "Motions" is ok, but there should be key frame by key frame ease in/out control. There's also an odd Verticle geometry issue when using AA with geometry popping.

mlmiller1983
07-08-2005, 10:17 PM
About waiting after Siggraph....These deals are just too good to pass up.

Modo 102 for $300 for LWers, thats one third the retail price. Cinema 4D 9.1 XL for $900,thats over half the price of it retail. If you don't already own the software I'd say these deals are too good to pass up. Besides you can upgrade to the newer version most of the time.

I've tried the trial version of both software and I love them both and think they would be fine addition to my CG toolbox.

Least I not forget XSI|Softimage Foundation for $500, since this isn't a special I am waiting after Siggraph before I pick this up but its on my list.

Zarathustra
07-08-2005, 10:37 PM
Yeah, I think the Modo one is a good one.
I guess you'll never see a LW + Modo special. :D

mlmiller1983
07-08-2005, 11:02 PM
Yeah, I think the Modo one is a good one.
I guess you'll never see a LW + Modo special. :D

If you bought LW earlier this year when they were having their competitive upgrade special and then take advantage of the Modo special you woul have only spent about $800 on close to $2600 worth of softare. Modo being $900 and LW being $1700 reg retail. So you basically saved $1800 by taking advantage of both deals. If you take the C4D 9.1 XL LW special you would spent $1700( $500 + $300 + $900) and saved over $2800. Now if you don't intend to use them to their full extent then it would pointless to purchase any of them.

private
07-09-2005, 01:23 AM
If you bought LW earlier this year when they were having their competitive upgrade special and then take advantage of the Modo special you woul have only spent about $800 on close to $2600 worth of softare. Modo being $900 and LW being $1700 reg retail. So you basically saved $1800 by taking advantage of both deals. If you take the C4D 9.1 XL LW special you would spent $1700( $500 + $300 + $900) and saved over $2800. Now if you don't intend to use them to their full extent then it would pointless to purchase any of them.

It's kind of hard to call modo $900 software, when they have never sold a copy for that much. As it's gone with modo, the longer you wait to buy it, the cheaper it gets. I feel a little bad for early adopters, as they paid close to double of what it is now. It can also be argued that the $1700 for Lightwave is also a huge inflated price of what it can actually be had for. With that said, I would argue that your math doesn't add up.

mlmiller1983
07-09-2005, 01:50 AM
http://www.luxology.com/store/front.aspx Unless they take money out after you put in your card information it says $895 and thats if you don't have Maya, LW, or XSI. So without the discount your paying 3 times the amount which does make the special offer all the more better.

As for Lightwave I basically said its retail price which is $1700( or $1600 if you minus the manual) if you buy it straight without any older version of Lightwave or other 3D animation program. I am sure you can find it cheaper but I just went with the basic retail price.( so actual savings my vary but $500 is still kick @$$ and I saved at least $1000)

My math is not off thankyou very much!!

LW 8 is $1600(Retail price from Newtek), Paid $500 for it so I saved about $1100

Modo is $900(thats what is going for now regular), you pay $300 with special and save $600

Cinema 4D 9.1 XL is $1900 retail from Maxon, with the LW special you pay $1000 and save $900

Total regular price = $4400
Total price paid with discounts = $1800
Total Savings = $2600

private
07-09-2005, 04:10 AM
So, it they put the retail price at $3000, and you bought it for $300, you'd save $2700, right? The retail price is just a starting point/trick. How many licences have they sold for $895? Even, right after they started offering modo, they sold it at a "discount".

I'm not here to sway you. You can buy whatever software at whatever price. I'll leave the trying to get you go convert stuff from exLightwave enthusiasts like Policarpo.

mlmiller1983
07-09-2005, 07:05 AM
So, it they put the retail price at $3000, and you bought it for $300, you'd save $2700, right? The retail price is just a starting point/trick. How many licences have they sold for $895? Even, right after they started offering modo, they sold it at a "discount".

I'm not here to sway you. You can buy whatever software at whatever price. I'll leave the trying to get you go convert stuff from exLightwave enthusiasts like Policarpo.

Modo is $900 NOW without the special discount and $300 with the discount. I don't know what the price was before now but I see $900. I think thats a huge savings at this moment to take advantage of the offer. I downloaded Modo and loved it and it plays nice with LW and from what I have been told it plays very nice with C4D. I don't have a favorite application YET but I see the strength and weaknesses of each one and Cinema 4D, Lightwave, and Modo play nice together and besides, why limit yourself to just one application when having a few opens more windows of creative opportunity.

Cinema 4D, Lightwave 3D, and Modo are all great pieces of software and I don't see why all three can't work in harmony with each other.

Emmanuel
07-09-2005, 05:54 PM
I am currently evaluating the Vue5 demo, and while it seems interesting, I would probably rather buy Xfrog.
1)I could use the plants in LW without problems and have LW do the rest (backdrop, landscapes)
2)It seems that Vue needs a bit more maturing (GUI, performance)
But it does a good job.

What I would like to see is a combo that really makes sense: LW&Bodypaint, LW&ZBrush,
LW&Fprime...they could sell it as the Worley-Edition.
I guess for 595$ a combo of LW and sasquatch or Fprime should be doable.
I would get that one instantly.

biliousfrog
07-10-2005, 07:12 PM
You can use the plants from Vue in Lightwave with no problems (at least none that I've encountered), the problem is the amount of polys that need to be rendered when you add 3d foliage into an app that is not designed for it.....Xfrog will cause exactly the same problems. I've used version 3 of Xfrog & I think that Vue is far superior....purely because it can do so much more than just make plants.....such as render them very fast.

I think that the Vue + Lightwave offer is great & I'd take advantage of it if I wanted two great 3D applications for a very reduced price. I just thought that it was worth mentioning that they are not going to work together as well as many expect.

Lightwave & Fprime would be great, especially when Worley sorts out network rendering. Who knows, maybe we'll have FPrime-lite in the next version of Lightwave anyway?

mlmiller1983
07-10-2005, 07:35 PM
What I would like to see is a combo that really makes sense: LW&Bodypaint, LW&ZBrush,
LW&Fprime...they could sell it as the Worley-Edition.
I guess for 595$ a combo of LW and sasquatch or Fprime should be doable.
I would get that one instantly.


Now that would be nice. I would pay $1000 for LW8, FPrime, & Sasquatch. Zbrush would be nice also.

SirReality
07-10-2005, 09:23 PM
I'm trying out V5I also. The ecosystems are impressive, but I would not consider this a stand-alone product. In order to import LW geometry into Vue I had to create a UV map, bake the surface information, retexture the model using the newly baked texture, then export the geometry as an OBJ file. Vue doesn't like the way LW exports OBJ with UV info and so I had to load the OBJ file into UVMapper and then resave it (I didn't come up with this trick, it was written about in the Vue forum). Once I did this the object would load into Vue and be correctly mapped. I could not save this object in Vue format (because it is only the trial version), but would have liked to use this object as part of an ecosystem. Below is an LW object imported into Vue sitting in an ecosystem forest. This object does not have texture mapping applied to it.

http://www.insaint.com/3dcg/lw2.jpg

architook
07-10-2005, 09:29 PM
Now that would be nice. I would pay $1000 for LW8, FPrime, & Sasquatch. Zbrush would be nice also.

That's actually the right thing for Newtek to do. Let people expand their LightWave with tools that are usable for LW work directly.
Though FPrime should be built INTO LightWave though, it's so fundamental. Zbrush and Sasquatch and G2 are important options, but still options. FPrime is the one tool every LW user should have.

Zarathustra
07-11-2005, 02:18 PM
Let people expand their LightWave with tools that are usable for LW work directly.

Oh sure, go and make sense. Have a bundle that actually works together.

Well maybe they figure almost every LW user already has FP. I mean, that's where the $500 upgrade money has probably been going overall.

I think I'd rather have a lower upgrade price than an upgrade bundled with some other software that I may or may not use. This is not just for LW, but any software.
I couldn't use DFX being a Mac user.
I'm sure there are people with Vue already.
Just lower the price like the way Modo is lower. In the end, that's REALLY what people want - a lower price.
Then you wouldn't have a lengthy debate about how good/bad the bundle is, what would be a better bundle, etc.

On another note, how long has 8 been out now? It's a little odd to have to put together promotions like this to get people to upgrade after all this time, isn't it? People just holding out for 9, or what?

Emmanuel
07-11-2005, 02:30 PM
Dont forget its not 8 but 8.3 (!) ;)
While the bundle is tempting, I will definitly wait for Siggraph to see if I stay with LW or rather spend that amount on XSI.
Landscape stuff is a very limited area, and my budget right now is tight, so I better think twice.

Zarathustra
07-11-2005, 02:37 PM
Don't forget, it's a free upgrade from 8 to 8.x so for all intents and purposes, you're upgrading to LW [8].

I just got a postcard from NT the other day (I guess they forgot I upgraded since it was SO long ago that they cashed my check). It says [8]. What does the subject of this thread say? LW8.

richcz3
07-11-2005, 08:19 PM
For all the reasons posted. I wonder if E-On and Newtek are working to make Vue and Lightwave more compatible with each other. I have Infinite already, so that is of the greatest importance for me. If someone at Newtek could enlighten us on this point, that would be great.

at_626
07-12-2005, 02:57 AM
well... will see for Siggraph:twisted: , and decide to stay with LW(upgrade to LW9:thumbsup: ) or buy C4D...:love:

Megalodon
07-12-2005, 04:26 AM
For all the reasons posted. I wonder if E-On and Newtek are working to make Vue and Lightwave more compatible with each other. I have Infinite already, so that is of the greatest importance for me. If someone at Newtek could enlighten us on this point, that would be great.

I'm in the same boat and would LOVE to hear some encouraging info on this. A short time ago E-On e-mailed something about improving the links between Maya and Max but LW was conspicuously not mentioned. I responded to E-On saying that I use LW and would like to see the LW/Vue5I communication improved. Hopefully that's what they're doing. Vue5I needs work but it's really an incredible piece of software and tigher integration with LW would be wonderful.

Megalodon

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