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Rebeccak
07-05-2005, 04:50 AM
SPECIAL NOTE - posted 1/23/06:

SINCE THIS IS LARGELY A CLOSED THREAD, FOR THOSE INTERESTED IN FURTHER EXPLORING BASIC DRAWING CONCEPTS, PLEASE SEE THE FOLLOWING (ACTIVE) THREAD:

Here we explore the Concept of Gesture ~ anyone is free to join in! :)

Beginners' Lounge (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=297229)
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=297229

~~~
(showthread.php?t=297229)

REBECCA KIMMEL'S Anatomy Review 002: OPPOSING CURVES

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop_II_OPPOSING%20CURVES/Demo_002_Image_1.jpg

REBECCA KIMMEL'S Anatomy Review 002: OPPOSING CURVES


Welcome to the second thread of Rebecca Kimmel’s Anatomy Review. Hopefully this will be only the second of many "tutorials" that I will be writing about the core concepts concerning drawing the human figure in an artistically anatomical way.

But first let me tell you a bit about myself -- I graduated with honors from the Art Center College of Design having studied Illustration. I studied under the popular teachers Harry Carmean, Burne Hogarth, and Steve Huston among many others. I have always had the interest in teaching figurative drawing and artistic anatomy, and I am thankful to Roberto Ortiz for presenting me with this unique and special opportunity. So bear with me as this is a fledgling teaching attempt. :)

So bring your drawing pads, sketch books, your wacoms and your pencils & pens, and let’s start drawing. :)

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop_II_OPPOSING%20CURVES/Demo_002_Image_2.jpg

Part II: OPPOSING CURVES

Human form is organic form, and organic form is built for economic movement. As with plants and trees, so with human beings – we are built with curves, not straight lines, and the reason for our curve-based structure is to allow us to move efficiently. So, when drawing the figure, the principle to keep in mind is simple: CURVES.
But here is a "twist" on the principle of Curves – :scream: – Curves in human form oppose each other less like the parentheses I just used ( ) and more like the curves evident in the DNA spiral where the curves are offset from one another, rather than perfectly adjacent. You can create the illusion of human form with a few swift offset curves, but you will never create such an illusion (or you will create a poor one) with curves that look like parentheses ( ).

As an example, let’s look at the Belvedere Torso, an antique sculpture dating to the first century B.C.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop_II_OPPOSING%20CURVES/torso_demo_300dpi_small_FUL.jpg

Figures B. and C. show OPPOSING CURVES in action – the NUMBERS indicate the sequence in which the OPPOSING CURVES might be drawn, and they also show how the eye moves from one side of the form to the other and from one curve to another. The COLORS indicate the FORM which is being created by the OPPOSING CURVES.

As mentioned before in the previous lesson, NEVER use Parentheses ( ) curves to indicate form – you will end up drawing a vase, not a leg, as human form is organic and rarely perfect in its symmetry. Instead, use OPPOSING CURVES, or OFFSET CURVES, to generate FORM.

Figure D. shows how one might DRAW Opposing Curves on the page. These need not be drawn in a certain order – but the point is to THINK AROUND AND ACROSS THE BODY instead of down one side and then another.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here is an example of a drawing of a torso which I recently created that employs the use of OPPOSING CURVES:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop_II_OPPOSING%20CURVES/OpposingCurves_Demo1_SMALL_2.jpg

When drawing the figure, I draw from one side of the body to another, from top to bottom usually, to create both form and a sense of movement in the drawing. When drawing the torso, I typically start somewhere at the top of the torso and work my way down, going back and forth to establish PAIRS OF CURVES which will generate form as I go along. So, in the above demonstration drawing, I would have started with lines indicated in ORANGE, then the lines indicated in BLUE, then the lines indicated in GREEN, then the lines indicated in YELLOW, and finally the beginning of the legs, indicated in FUSCHIA, ORANGE, and BROWN.

RECAP: HOW TO CREATE A DRAWING USING OPPOSING CURVES:

1. ALWAYS THINK AROUND AND ACROSS THE BODY – not up or down one side and then the other.

2. The sides of the body are always thinking of one another – without the other side, they are incomplete! Think Jerry McGuire, with Opposing Curves. :scream:

3. When beginning a drawing using Opposing Curves, DO NOT FORGET those things you have learned about GESTURE DRAWING in the previous lesson. You should ESTABLISH THE OVERALL GESTURE FIRST, lightly, and then, once the initial GESTURE of the figure is established, go back into the drawing and refine the pose with OPPOSING CURVES.

4. There is NO TIME LIMIT for these types of drawings – so TAKE YOUR TIME, and start to get a feel of what it is like to draw using OPPOSING CURVES.

FINAL NOTES:

So that’s it. Go now, pick that sketchbook up, and practice drawing using OPPOSING CURVES. My advice is to do several and then pick the best one to post here.

YOU HAVE ONE WEEK TO POST YOUR BEST PIECE (OPPOSING CURVES DRAWING).

GENERAL RULES:

Once I have posted my lesson it will be your turn:


Post a drawing based on the topic or body part covered in this lesson. You may use a model (preferred) or photo reference.
A couple of times a month, a new thread will be posted on theWIP/Critique: 2D, Illustrations and Concept Art (http://www.cgtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=31) called:REBECCA KIMMEL'S Anatomy Review : "Thread Title"



For example:



REBECCA KIMMEL'S Anatomy Review 002: OPPOSING CURVES



This will be the CORE thread, created by Rebecca Kimmel, where the lessons will be posted along with the FINAL pieces done by the participants.



This will be the only thread where artwork will be posted. Comments WILL be allowed on the thread.
(In short, when an artist wants to show his or her drawing based on the lesson, he or she just has to post a reply to the thread.)

Each entry will have:

An original piece done after the topic has been picked.
The artwork done by the participant based on the latest class.
And some more rules:

All artwork must have the following words written on them: (c) 2005 YOUR NAME
At the end of the week, I will pick up to 4 pieces of my choosing and will review them. My advice: KEEP IT SIMPLE
You are encouraged to use MODELS but if you cannot you can use PHOTO reference.
At the end of the week, I will pick up to 4 pieces of my choosing and will review them. My advice: KEEP IT SIMPLE.

All text and images posted on this lesson are © 2005, Rebecca Kimmel. Good luck!

-Roberto and Rebecca

DISCLAIMER: The creator of this thread, Roberto Ortiz, Rebecca Kimmel, CGNetworks and CGTALK are not responsible for what happens during these classes. Participants are posting under their own accord and their actions are their own. The aforementioned parties of Roberto Ortiz, Rebecca Kimmel, CGNetworks and CGTALK are in no way responsible for their actions and are thus not liable in any way.

EDIT: Please see #37 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2437723&postcount=37) for RULES ABOUT CRITIQUING OTHERS' DRAWINGS

NOTE: COMMENTS AND CRITICISMS [i]MUST BE CONSTRUCTIVE AND SENSITIVE IN TONE,
OR THEY WILL BE REMOVED or EDITED. ANYONE MAY DO DRAW-OVERS SO LONG AS THE ARTIST THEY ARE CRITIQUING DOES NOT MIND AND THE PERSON DOING THE DRAW-OVER IS VERY COURTEOUS.

Rebeccak
07-05-2005, 06:32 AM
Guys, while this is LESSON 002: OPPOSING CURVES, make sure to check out the Best Gesture Drawings from LESSON 001:GESTURES! (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=253289&page=28&pp=15)

Thanks to everyone who participated in LESSON 001: GESTURES! :thumbsup:

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
07-05-2005, 06:33 AM
If you missed LESSON 001: GESTURES, please stop by the thread to check out the great posts!

Main Page for LESSON 001: GESTURES (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=253289&page=1&pp=15)

Useful Internal Thread Links for LESSON 001: GESTURES: #1 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2413729&postcount=1)

Hope that both thread topics are beneficial :)

___________________________________________________________________________

EDIT: HERE IS AN UPDATED LIST OF REFERENCE BOOKS FOR ARTISTIC ANATOMY AND FIGURATIVE DRAWING:

INSTRUCTIONAL:

"Albinus on Anatomy", by Robert Beverly Hale and Terence Coyle - Dover Publications, publisher

"Artistic Anatomy", by Dr. Paul Richer - Watson Guptill, publisher

"Anatomy Lessons From The Great Masters", by Robert Beverly Hale and Terence Coyle - Watson Guptill, publisher

"Atlas of Human Anatomy for the Artist", by Stephen Rogers Peck - Oxford University Press, publisher

"An Atlas of Anatomy for Artists", by Fritz Schider - Dover Publications, publisher

"Anatomy for the Artist", by Jeno Barcsay - Barnes & Noble Books, publisher

"Human Anatomy for Artists - The Elements of Form", by Eliot Goldfinger - Oxford University Press, publisher

"Master Class in Figure Drawing", by Robert Beverly Hale - Watson Guptill, publisher

"Figure Drawing For All It's Worth", by Andrew Loomis - Viking Press (out of print)

"Dynamic Anatomy", by Burne Hogarth - Watson Guptill, publisher

"Vilppu Drawing Manual", by Glenn Vilppu - (self-published)

"The Human Machine: The Anatomical Structure and Mechanism of the Human Body", by George Bridgeman - Dover, publisher

*NEW*" (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0879515368/pricecompar0d-20/ref%3Dnosim/102-1911993-6034569)High-Focus Drawing - A Revolutionary Approach to Drawing the Figure", by James McMullan - Overlook Press, publisher (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0879515368/pricecompar0d-20/ref%3Dnosim/102-1911993-6034569)



BOOKS BY / ABOUT DRAUGHTSMEN:


"Michelangelo", by Bernard Lamarche-Vadel - Chartwell Books, Inc., publisher

"Michelangelo And His Drawings", by Michael Hirst - Yale University Press

"Pontormo", by/edited by Salvatore S. Nigro and Marianne Scheider - Schirmer / Mosel, publisher

"The Drawings of Rubens", Master Draughtsman Series of books - Borden Publishing Company, publisher

"The Drawings of Harry Carmean", Master Draughtsman Series of books - Borden Publishing Company, publisher

"Carmean", by June Harwood - Harwood / Carmean, publisher


OF INTEREST:

"Encyclopaedia Anatomica - Museo La Specola Florence" - Taschen, publisher

_____________

Clearly, you don't need all of these! The best thing to do is hunt a few of the top INSTRUCTIONAL books down online or in the bookstores, and see what you like best.
So long as the books that you find contain reference including the skeleton in front, back, and side view, as well as the muscular and surface structures in these three views, you should be fine. Often, artists like to have several books on hand, however, as each reference book can offer something unique, even if the same subject matter is covered.

In terms of books about ARTISTS, everyone should have a book containing Michelangelo's Drawings and Paintings in my opinion! After that, Rubens. After that, Pontormo. These are just my three favorite artists that I drool over. But definitely collect books on artists you love and never loan them! :)

____________________________________________________________________________


EDIT: RECOMMENDED TRADITIONAL MEDIA SUPPLIES (IF YOU ARE USING TRADITIONAL MEDIA):


Supply-wise, you are welcome to use any medium with which you feel comfortable -- personally, I'm going to be posting charcoal drawings, maybe with some Photoshop additions, but these posts are essentially meant to be more demonstrative in terms of ideas about approaching figurative drawing, and less about using a specific technique.

So you can use what you like for these exercises -- pencil, pen, charcoal, pixels...

That being said, the materials I tend to use when drawing are:

For anatomical studies from books or life:
-ballpoint pen
-any size sketchbook, preferably a standard medium-sized one (not a tiny one)
-pencil rarely

For figurative drawings / life drawings:
-several charcoal pencils (6B Generals) for figurative drawing
-or Carb Othello pencils (more expensive, harder to find, but softer)
-exacto knife to sharpen charcoal pencils
-sandpaper pad to sand sharpened charcoal pencils
-paper towels for pencil shavings
-18" x 24" newsprint pad
-standard masonite drawing board with clips to accommdate 18" x 24" newsprint pad
-support for drawing board (eg, easel -- I just use a black lightweight aluminum tripod-style easel)
-gum eraser (used rarely)

Hope this is useful :)

~Rebeccak

sphere
07-05-2005, 06:38 AM
Thanks Rebecca! This lesson seems to really follow on nicely from the last. I'll be sure to get busy with opposing curves when I have some free time.

edit: Do you think we should all work from the same reference?

Rebeccak
07-05-2005, 06:41 AM
Thanks, Sphere! Look forward to seeing your new work :)

~Rebeccak

lukx
07-05-2005, 06:48 AM
Rebecca, do you mind if I make pdf from your lessons and share them in this topic?

Rebeccak
07-05-2005, 06:53 AM
lukx wrote,

>Rebecca, do you mind if I make pdf from your lessons and share them in this topic?

lukx,

thank you for asking ~ I would greatly prefer if you made a pdf version only for yourself and did not post it on this thread.

The information is available to everyone here, but the drawings and lessons are under my copyright, and the drawings posted on this thread are copyright their respective owners.

Thanks for understanding, and I hope to see your posts! :)

~Rebeccak

nelsig
07-05-2005, 06:56 AM
Hi Rebecca !

as soon as I find a model, I'll go with opposing curves ;)

thanks for the time you take to do such great tutorials

Nicolas

Rebeccak
07-05-2005, 06:58 AM
nelsig,

Awesome! The more the merrier :)

~Rebeccak

scorpion007
07-05-2005, 07:09 AM
Great, i hope to participate in this one too :D

Each entry will have:


An original piece done after the topic has been picked.
The artwork done by the participant based on the latest class.


Not sure i understand this correctly - does that mean each post you make must have an entry, AND some other original piece you have created earlier?

Please clarify.
Thanks

meta87
07-05-2005, 07:18 AM
Hi Rebeccak!

This looks great. I am working on these opposing curves, and would like to delve even deeper into this subject. Do you know of any figure drawing books that address this? I have several books. Figure Drawing for All Its Worth, Drawing the Head and the Figure, Human Anatomy Made Amazingly Easy, and a couple others, but don't really see anything on the subject. Although I admit that it could be in there somewhere since I haven't looked extremely thoroughly.

If not could you answer a couple questions for me? :)

Are there times when a paranthesis type shape is acceptable or should this be avoided at all costs? There are times when I am drawing from a photo (Since I can't find any live models :( ) and I see pretty symmetrical curves and have a hard time avoiding them.

Thanks for any input you have!

Rebeccak
07-05-2005, 07:23 AM
scorpion007 wrote:

>Not sure i understand this correctly - does that mean each post you make must have an entry, AND some other original piece you have created earlier?

Sorry for the confusion! All that you need post is a drawing that relates to the current topic. I would prefer that you post something you've done specifically for this thread.

Thanks!
~Rebeccak

seth1
07-05-2005, 07:26 AM
Hey Rebecca, I will get on these drawings. Will try to get a couple pages done tomorow. Thanks for the inspo...

meta87
07-05-2005, 08:25 AM
Well here are a couple of my better opposing curve drawings. Thanks for all the help Rebeccak!

http://www.cooltechprojects.com/sketches/7-4-05-1.jpg
http://www.cooltechprojects.com/sketches/7-4-05-2.jpg
http://www.cooltechprojects.com/sketches/7-4-05-3.jpg

The front foot on the last picture needs some serious help. lol.

Anyway I'll keep working on this! :)

NOOB!
07-05-2005, 08:31 AM
yaaAAY! new lesson.

GZ
07-05-2005, 08:39 AM
New lesson sounds good ,
I'll post my skeches soon .

Thanks....:thumbsup:

FromanylanD
07-05-2005, 08:56 AM
http://www.animation-fromanyland.com/imgshow/torsoCurves01.jpg

Colors scanned a little weird...10-20 mins. Could be more focused on the curves...is it still ok to post more than one drawing?

http://www.garrionstudio.f9.co.uk/maletorso.jpg

EDIT: 'nother one...

http://www.animation-fromanyland.com/imgshow/torsoCurves02.jpg

http://www.garrionstudio.f9.co.uk/femaletorso.jpg

seth1
07-05-2005, 09:58 AM
Hmmm! I will do lots more tomorow... To late..
http://img223.echo.cx/img223/1559/curves3qj.jpg

commodore
07-05-2005, 10:21 AM
English is not my natural language so I can't understand a thing about opposing curves. I got it like this: I can't do curves like this ( ) I have to differ them so they woudn't look like mirrored, something like this http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/9568/shiznlick2am.jpg? It's so confusing http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/sad.gif.

Cyborgguineapig
07-05-2005, 10:39 AM
English is not my natural language so I can't understand a thing about opposing curves. I got it like this: I can't do curves like this ( ) I have to differ them so they woudn't look like mirrored, something like this http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/9568/shiznlick2am.jpg? It's so confusing http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/sad.gif.


If you are doing http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/9568/shiznlick2am.jpgthen you are doing it correct:thumbsup:

FromanylanD
07-05-2005, 10:47 AM
I believe you're correct, commodore.

Rebecca, I have a question. How exactly does this concept of opposing curves work, practically? Should we be drawing a certain way? Or just working normally and simply taking note of the curves?

Rebeccak
07-05-2005, 12:06 PM
meta87 wrote:

>Do you know of any figure drawing books that address this? I have several books.

Hey, meta87, good to see you back! There is a book whose name I will research for you and post as soon as I find it.

>Are there times when a paranthesis type shape is acceptable or should this be avoided at all costs? There are times when I am drawing from a photo (Since I can't find any live models :( ) and I see pretty symmetrical curves and have a hard time avoiding them.

If you're just putting in lines for the lay-in/gesture and are noting the edges of any width of the body ~ be it arm, leg, torso, wrist, etc. ~ it's fine. But I've really never seen ( ) curves work well. If you see in the body curves which are not much offset, exaggerate them a bit...I think it will help to improve a drawing.

Rebeccak
07-05-2005, 12:16 PM
seth1 ~ thanks for the post!

meta87 ~ wow ~ I think these are a big improvement over the last set of gesture sketches which you did. I'll review these soon.

Gordon Freeman ~ cool! looking forward to your posts :)

FromanylanD: Great! Looking good so far. Post your best drawings. So long as you feel the drawings which you post show improvement, I would post them :)

Seth1 ~ the torso in the upper right corner is really getting there ~ later I'll post something about emphasizing the apexes of curves.

commodore ~ I'm sorry! I will try to post more drawings to explain :) It's cool to have an international group of peers...

Cyborgguineapig: thanks!

FromanylanD wrote:
>How exactly does this concept of opposing curves work, practically? Should we be drawing a certain way? Or just working normally and simply taking note of the curves?

Thanks for the question ~ I would say, when looking at the figure, DECIDE IN ADVANCE where the MOST IMPORTANT CURVES are ~ and draw them SIMPLY, as in the Gesture Drawings. Put one curve down, then it's opposing curve, and work your way down the figure, using a rhythmic back and forth motion of your pencil that addresses both sides of the body with equal measure.

Do NOT completely draw ONE side of the body, and then, the other side.

Instead, work the figure ONE set of Opposing Curves at a time ~ create form just with these Curves as you work down the body.

Hope this helps!

Thanks for the posts, guys! :)
~Rebeccak

NOOB!
07-05-2005, 12:44 PM
this is mega hard! arrrghhh!!

.......*sumtime later*

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/noobeene/psin.jpg

heres my quick attempt...

if ur gunna ask me what shez doin,the answer will be *F**K KNOWS*,just ur regular neked spasticated woman.just wanted to experience curvation in a more dynamic way.:D

forgive me for not having ref or any visual ades.

sphere
07-05-2005, 02:06 PM
Yay, I finally got my scanner working! Here's a quick sketch I made.

http://www.shanerichards.com/cgtalk/curve_01.jpg

Rebeccak
07-05-2005, 02:10 PM
NOOB and sphere,

These posts are really impressive ~ keep up the good work!! If you decide to post even better sketches or updates of drawings using Opposing Curves, please do so.

Thanks! :)

~Rebeccak

NOOB!
07-05-2005, 02:15 PM
i can't see spheres

am i the only one?

Rebeccak
07-05-2005, 02:34 PM
NOOB, I can see sphere's post...

~Rebeccak

Mirwen
07-05-2005, 02:48 PM
I can't see it as well:shrug:(I mean the work of sphere)

default-rol
07-05-2005, 02:49 PM
Dont worry NOOB and Mirwen - I cant see Spheres drawing for some reason also! Tried it in two seperate browsers too. Perhaps its just an "European" thing! :D

I will try to get some stuff on-line in the next few days for this. Still trying to sort out how it works in my own head! :argh:

Rebeccak
07-05-2005, 03:11 PM
Guys, are you able to see this? (sphere's post):

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop_II_OPPOSING%20CURVES/sphere_OC_1.jpg

Thanks!

~Rebeccak

artemesia66
07-05-2005, 03:11 PM
well, i didn't get a chance to submit in round 1, but here's my opposing curves. my reference is robertB_2_0129.jpg on 3d.sdk, which i can't repost, but if anyone's interested, you can at least see the thumbnail.

Rebeccak
07-05-2005, 03:23 PM
artemesia66 ~

thank you for posting! I look forward to seeing more of your work :)

~Rebeccak

default-rol
07-05-2005, 03:24 PM
I can see it (spheres artwork) now you re-posted it. Thx Rebecca.

NOOB!
07-05-2005, 03:30 PM
i see spheres now,nice attempt sphere.

Slurry
07-05-2005, 03:35 PM
Great stuff everyone.

Rebecca,

Thanks for posting these lectures/lessons. It really breaks down the fundamentals of drawing the human form in a way that is easy (for me anyway) to follow.

Art

Rebeccak
07-05-2005, 03:38 PM
*****EDIT: CONCERNING COMMENTS/CRITICISM AND DRAW-OVERS*****


Everyone,

I'd like to emphasize that I am not the only person "permitted" on this thread to give feeback...for those of you with more experience, please offer comments and critiques when people post their work, so long as your comments are CONSTRUCTIVE, SENSITIVE, and KIND ~ so far, everyones' have been :) ~ thank you!


RULES FOR CORRECTING OTHERS' DRAWINGS:

EDIT: I would recommend the following: IF YOU DO NOT MIND OTHERS CRITIQUING YOUR WORK AND DOING DRAW-OVERS ON YOUR DRAWINGS, STATE THIS ON YOUR POST, in other words write:"I do not mind others' critique/draw-overs of my drawings".

CAVEAT: However, if NOTHING is stated on your original post of your drawing, we will assume that permission has been granted by the artist to do a critique/redraw of your work. So, if a re-draw/draw-over of your work really bugs you, then STATE: DO NOT DO A DRAW-OVER OF MY WORK on your original post.

I'm sure in most cases that people will be more than happy to receive advice and suggestions, as there are far more drawings here than I can review and revise single-handedly.

PLEASE BE COURTEOUS AND SENSITIVE when making corrections, and respect the feelings of the artist whose work you are correcting or for which you are making suggestions.

I think that having more experienced participants ~ you know who you are ~ help out by reviewing peoples' work and offering suggestions will definitely strengthen this thread and the learning curves of others as well as your own.

Thank You! Keep up the good work! :)

~Rebeccak

RO
07-05-2005, 03:48 PM
WOW!!! 3 pages already!

See rebeccak how a new area is needed. :)

I got to get and do some.

Rebeccak
07-05-2005, 03:57 PM
Yep, I'm tickled pink that people are interested in this...I'm super happy the group from the first lesson is sticking around, and I really look forward to seeing new posts! :bounce:

~Rebeccak

NOOB!
07-05-2005, 03:57 PM
i'll try and crit other work,but i still don't feel confident enough with my own work to be crittin others,so i might just leave it to the pros!

whens the new sub forum coming!! WE WANT IT NOW!!! *or whenever it can made*

Somhairle
07-05-2005, 04:25 PM
Well, I'm in! This is a great second lesson Rebbeca! and I'm sure one that will help propel everyones level and understanding. it's great you summed up in a couple of minutes reading what teachers spent +/- 2 weeks trying to explain to the class when I was in college.

Thats a great sign already for your teaching skills! Keep it up Ms. Kimmel!

@ everyone:
maybe another thing would be to actually post a link to your reference (if it exists) as well as your artwork, so that others can compare how you did. it will help to give a more "classroom" feel here. just a thought!

I'll post something later....busy at the moment. :)

- Somhairle

Rebeccak
07-05-2005, 04:25 PM
NOOB,

you are completely free to take your best shot ~ I'm sure people will appreciate your comments/criticisms! If you feel more comfortable, just make verbal criticisms. All feedback is welcome :)

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
07-05-2005, 04:30 PM
Somhairle wrote:

>maybe another thing would be to actually post a link to your reference (if it exists) as well as your artwork, so that others can compare how you did. it will help to give a more "classroom" feel here. just a thought!

Thanks for the suggestion, Somhairle! ~ I wish I did have reference, but the figure drawing (the one which is under the heading "Here is an example of a drawing of a torso which I recently created that employs the use of OPPOSING CURVES" is from a live model, of whom I did not take a picture.

However, later on this week (hopefully soon) I will post more demos/examples of using Opposing Curves with Reference from the Web.

Thanks, and I look forward to your posts!

~Rebeccak

Somhairle
07-05-2005, 04:33 PM
hahaha lol - I meant everybody else to post their ref....but since you mentioned it that would be really cool too!

- Somhairle

Rebeccak
07-05-2005, 04:38 PM
Doh! Right! That's a great idea, too! :D

~Rebeccak

NoirQ
07-05-2005, 04:46 PM
Get in early so it can get lsot in the sea of posts :D gave it a go, i still have some horrendous bits i think, the lower arm is like, a nightmare for me. I just kept having () :/ anywho, heres an early attempt. i got the characters left arm wrong, i wasnt happy with it at all, and the right one, i thought the elbow was waaay to low.

ref was:
http://www.prometheus-imports.com/g-aphrodite-knidos-mb-l.jpg

ignore the hands :D tiny tiny hand :)
Sidenote- I found a pencil! :D its a bog standrd hb, as all my artsy pencils are 100 miles away. :D

Great thread, before this (and well, the last one) i had never thought of the opposing curves. but now, knowing about it, i can see them on pictures and people, and thats something i had not noticed before :)

Keep up the good wrk everyone.

Rebeccak
07-05-2005, 05:29 PM
NoirQ,

No worries, that's what practice is for. I frankly consider Drawing to be a rather ornerous and difficult but rewarding task that has taken me a LONG time to feel moderately comfortable with. I think the reason I keep coming back to it is the challenge of thinking that I can get better, even though it isn't easy...I'm sure everyone here can relate to that! :)

~Rebeccak

skipstah70
07-05-2005, 06:06 PM
Hi ... Just wanted to say what an awesome idea this thread is. Good job Rebecca... you know what you're doing alright!

S

NOOB!
07-05-2005, 06:20 PM
NOIR ,heres NOOB!'s input on ur post

You seem to be placing curves in willy nilly without actually thinking.Rebecca isn't saying make everything curved,shes saying its a technique that can be used to create form in certain areas.

look at the actual ref and compare it to your sketch,i think u took it a little extreme,don't you? instead of going straight into it,think about where the opposing curves will be needed,and think about her GESTURE too,don't forget what u've learned from the previous lessons now :deal: .


AHHHHH! i sound like a teacher,sumone slap me.lol

hope to see another attempt soon,hope i didn't discourage you.

Sphere,u seem to have gone the opposite way of Noir,and i hardly see a dynamic use of curves,to me ur figure looks pretty stiff? but its still a nice attempt.:thumbsup:

ugh! i need work on sum more now.

edit: oh and fromy,i have nothing to say to u,i hate u,ur too good.just like rebecca,i hate u both ggggrr!

Xillion
07-05-2005, 06:30 PM
Edit: added study #13

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/8383/ar0021small7qx.jpg (http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/9980/ar0021new4ai.jpg)



(http://www.imageshack.us/)

Rebeccak
07-05-2005, 06:38 PM
Xillion ~

Woo! Nice! Can't wait to review this one...definitely post updates... :)

EDIT: Michelangelo is THE person from whom to study Opposing Curves ~ he is the master of them. I would recommend for anyone to study from his works ~ to draw from his Drawings, Paintings, Frescoes, or Sculptures.

EDIT 2: Note the interesting part about using Opposing Curves: Did you have to know the name of every bone, muscle, and tendon to create this drawing? NO.

Thanks for sharing this! :)

~Rebeccak

Zephyri
07-05-2005, 07:04 PM
Okay, picked up the courage to post! I hope I got the right end of the stick here, drawing the opposing sides of the body sections is how I draw without reference most of the time, so I'm not sur eif what I'm doing is right! The two cleaner lined drawings were done from photographic reference, the scribblier of the two were based on a couple of gestures I picked at random from the sheets I'd produced over the past few days, and have no other reference than my sketchy knowledge of what lies beneath. Thanks again to you Rebecca, these exercises are helping me tremendously. I've already noticed that the ribcage on the female form is probably leaning to far forward to make it believable and the neck on the male scribbly isn't quite connected right.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/xephyri/cgtalk%20images/anatomyoppcurves.jpg

NoirQ
07-05-2005, 07:06 PM
You seem to be placing curves in willy nilly without actually thinking.Rebecca isn't saying make everything curved,shes saying its a technique that can be used to create form in certain areas.
_______

hmm, yeah, i can see that. good point :) i shall go back to it. :)
----
hope to see another attempt soon,hope i didn't discourage you.

its fine :D i can assure you you haven't :) is nice to be given advice :)

NOOB!
07-05-2005, 07:09 PM
those are sum pretty sha-weet drawings zep.

hey thanks noir for listening.

grr now i can't see xillions drawings

Redpoly
07-05-2005, 07:10 PM
yes, yes, yes:bounce: great idea
quick sketch

http://www.ibz.pl/test/1.JPG

Rebeccak
07-05-2005, 07:10 PM
Zepyhri,

Nice, nice, nice, nice, nice.

I rather like the *scribblier* :) ones ~ I think they are a lot more expressive and interesting than the *cleaner* ones. I REALLY like the two far right sketches ~ and I think it is a GREAT idea to draw from previously done sketches ~ these give you something to go on besides pure imagination, but you have to THINK a lot more to make the drawings work.

Thanks for posting these ~ I can tell this will be a great session! :)

EDIT: Redpoly ~ Rockin'! Keep posting!

EDIT 2: Go Xillion!!

~Rebeccak

FromanylanD
07-05-2005, 07:30 PM
Thanks for the question ~ I would say, when looking at the figure, DECIDE IN ADVANCE where the MOST IMPORTANT CURVES are ~ and draw them SIMPLY, as in the Gesture Drawings. Put one curve down, then it's opposing curve, and work your way down the figure, using a rhythmic back and forth motion of your pencil that addresses both sides of the body with equal measure.

Do NOT completely draw ONE side of the body, and then, the other side.

Instead, work the figure ONE set of Opposing Curves at a time ~ create form just with these Curves as you work down the body.

Hope this helps!

Thanks for the posts, guys! :)
~Rebeccak


Thanks :)

I should have gathered that from the original post, but it didn't click for some reason.

Post your best drawings. So long as you feel the drawings which you post show improvement, I would post them :)

I'll do a few more...they'll be more on topic if nothing else.

AdrielaSakamoto
07-05-2005, 07:33 PM
my posting to the lesson.
edit: added reference photo

Rebeccak
07-05-2005, 07:38 PM
FromanylanD,

DEFINITELY post. Don't just slide thru ~ even you can benefit from this! :)

AdrielaSakamoto,

Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. I'll start to review peoples' work tonight or tomorrow.
But of course people have all week to post their work, and I'll continue to review.


Keep it coming! :thumbsup:

~Rebeccak

AdrielaSakamoto
07-05-2005, 08:03 PM
Noir, When I saw your sketch I was reminded of some of Ruben's work, in the style and execution. (The Assumption of the Virgin, for example and some others I cannot locate) http://www.myamericanartist.com/americanartist/drawing/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000928783

Opps.. meant to say: The curves, in abundance, lend a dynamic feel to what would other wise be a very static piece. I like the feel of it a lot, and I like that you leaped in and just went for it. You'll find your feet soon that way.

Given the photographic quality of your reference, I think you did very well with it. I couldn't have made heads or tails of it, myself. May I suggest this site for some great sculptural references if you are leaning in that direction. (they don't move, that's for sure!)

http://www.thais.it/scultura/default_uk.htm

Keep going. The best way to learn to draw, is to.. well.. draw!
Best,
A

Redpoly
07-05-2005, 08:35 PM
next sketch for this lesson...

http://www.ibz.pl/test/2.JPG

NOOB!
07-05-2005, 08:38 PM
next sketch for this lesson...

http://www.ibz.pl/test/2.JPG


ooooooooooooh,excellentness

augustus
07-05-2005, 08:43 PM
Ok, here is mine:

http://august.f2o.org/temp/curves01.jpg

NOOB!
07-05-2005, 08:46 PM
is it me or is the area from his chest to his waist a tad too long?

but damn,still impressive curvation.

Rebeccak
07-05-2005, 08:46 PM
AdrielaSakamoto wrote:

>NoirQ, When I saw your sketch I was reminded of some of Ruben's work, in the style and execution. (The Assumption of the Virgin, for example and some others I cannot locate) http://www.myamericanartist.com/ame...t_id=1000928783 (http://www.myamericanartist.com/americanartist/drawing/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000928783)

Opps.. meant to say: The curves, in abundance, lend a dynamic feel to what would other wise be a very static piece. I like the feel of it a lot, and I like that you leaped in and just went for it. You'll find your feet soon that way.

Given the photographic quality of your reference, I think you did very well with it. I couldn't have made heads or tails of it, myself. May I suggest this site for some great sculptural references if you are leaning in that direction. (they don't move, that's for sure!)

http://www.thais.it/scultura/default_uk.htm (http://www.thais.it/scultura/default_uk.htm)

Keep going. The best way to learn to draw, is to.. well.. draw!
Best,
A

__

Adriela and NoirQ ~

Some great thoughts and feedback here! Thank you both for posting. I agree that the best way to learn to draw is to draw...A LOT. I have just tons of sketchpads and newsprint pads that are just itching to be composted...but somehow, I can't bring myself to send them off...

For folks who are relatively new to drawing ~ and I think that even those with a lot of experience can learn something through practicing these exercises ~ I should say that I've been actively attempting to learn how to draw for 10 years. This is NOT counting the years I spent as a kid doodling and drawing unicorns *ahem* but only takes into account the number of years I spent in college and afterwards seriously trying to learn how to draw.

There is an old maxim about drawing that we heard in art school constantly that went: It takes 10 years to learn how to draw ~ 7 if you're a genius.

I'm going on 10 years of serious drawing, am no genius, and I still have miles to go...

Food for thought :)

Art2
07-05-2005, 08:54 PM
grr now i can't see xillions drawings

I thought I was the only one who's missing a lot of pictures, I thought it was my browser.

Great sketches guys, Augustus great shading and form.
Redpoly, that is sweet too. He even has a small pot-belly, good job.

RobertoOrtiz
07-05-2005, 08:55 PM
Hi guys, I just wanted to pay a visit to say hi.
Becca is doing awesome, and I have to admit that the community is very proud and happy of her efforts.


I also wanted to thank to all who have posted their artwork so far. And if you are afraid to post, please dont be.

The people here are great and Becca is an awesome teacher.


And (hey I have to plug my stuff)
all of you are invited to please join us at

CGTalk Daily Sketch Forum (http://www.cgtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=130)

-R

NoirQ
07-05-2005, 09:05 PM
Noir, When I saw your sketch I was reminded of some of Ruben's work, in the style and execution. (The Assumption of the Virgin, for example and some others I cannot locate) http://www.myamericanartist.com/americanartist/drawing/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000928783

Opps.. meant to say: The curves, in abundance, lend a dynamic feel to what would other wise be a very static piece. I like the feel of it a lot, and I like that you leaped in and just went for it. You'll find your feet soon that way.

Given the photographic quality of your reference, I think you did very well with it. I couldn't have made heads or tails of it, myself. May I suggest this site for some great sculptural references if you are leaning in that direction. (they don't move, that's for sure!)

http://www.thais.it/scultura/default_uk.htm

Keep going. The best way to learn to draw, is to.. well.. draw!
Best,
A

Thanks, those links will be very useful! :) I spent a while looking for pictures of sculptures, with not much luck, so thanks :) On a brief aside, i did doole a brief layout first, its just its on a sperate piece of paper. i then formed it from that, with modifications. odd, but it works for me :)

Thanks for the posts everyone :)

seth1
07-05-2005, 09:08 PM
I have not touched a tablet in months, so hear is attempt in Open canvas. Heh dont plan on using tablet much any more i love the feel of pencil way more....
http://img94.echo.cx/img94/7346/untitled97lv.jpg

Rebeccak
07-05-2005, 09:13 PM
Wow, wow, wow! Lots of great stuff going on here! I can't wait to start reviewing...this should be fun. Thanks for your posts, guys!!! :)

EDIT:

NOOB wrote:
>is it me or is the area from his chest to his waist a tad too long?

Hmm, I wouldn't have noticed this right off, but I think you may be right...however, the overall piece is really, really nice...I am impressed to see so much great work! This is really becoming amazing!

~Rebeccak

NOOB!
07-05-2005, 09:17 PM
jeez,i'm the only one apart from art2 that can't seem to load sum of the images in this thread?

Rebeccak
07-05-2005, 09:22 PM
Who else is having problems viewing images?

NOOB, can you still see the image I hosted earlier of sphere's post?

EDIT: Xillion is a monster! Wow, really like that last piece!

Thanks! :)
~Rebeccak

NOOB!
07-05-2005, 09:30 PM
yeh i can view ur images just fine.

but certain members when they post it just doesn't show,or it has a red x.

other people have had the same,maybe its my pc,i'm not sure.nevermind me for now.

Rebeccak
07-05-2005, 09:36 PM
NOOB!

No worries ~ I think a lot of people are posting and also updating their images ~ hence the red x's. I would wait til the thread cools a bit and people have posted their work ~ then everyone's should be visible, assuming their links aren't TRULY broken.

Xillion has updated his images several times (which is fine), so that is probably why at certain times his posts have not been visible...

I've also been editing a lot of my posts, so, meh, who knows :shrug: Web stuff! Meh!

Thanks, NOOB :)

~Rebeccak

NOOB!
07-05-2005, 09:46 PM
stupid digital age...go away.

hehe.

i'm gunna post sum newness after i finish that *mission of the surreal* painting i'm working on.hope this thread goes well,seems that way already!

Rebeccak
07-05-2005, 09:48 PM
G'luck, NOOB :) Let me know if you need any help...tho from the looks of things, you know what you're doing :)

~Rebeccak

seth1
07-05-2005, 10:29 PM
Wow, this thread is rolling wicked stuff! I like the pencil way more. I feel like i am more in control of it then a tablet....

reference links are 1. http://www.prometheus-imports.com/g-male-torso-bb-l.jpg
2. http://www.prometheus-imports.com/g-youth-marathon-bb-l.jpg

Drawings
http://img18.echo.cx/img18/2404/curves21ac.jpg

bandersnatch
07-05-2005, 10:38 PM
ack double post

bandersnatch
07-05-2005, 10:47 PM
my attempts. i like the last on the most.

1 (http://www.elbandersnatcho.com/curves/opposing-curves-1.jpg)
2 (http://www.elbandersnatcho.com/curves/opposing-curves-2.jpg)
3 (http://www.elbandersnatcho.com/curves/opposing-curves-3.jpg)
4 (http://www.elbandersnatcho.com/curves/opposing-curves-4.jpg)
5 (http://www.elbandersnatcho.com/curves/opposing-curves-5.jpg)
6 (http://www.elbandersnatcho.com/curves/opposing-curves-6.jpg)

stipick_S
07-05-2005, 10:50 PM
I like to tell stories. It is unfortunate for others that I do, because that usually means they have to listen to them. Why am I telling you this. Well, because I am going to tell you fine folks one. Its quick I promise.

I have never reeally thought of the human body as having offset curves. It really is a great way to observe the figure. Upon reading Reb.'s recent thread (this one) I came to the conclusion that this was big news, a great tid bit of info.. So naturally I was interested to see how this related to organic objects. As I was running errands this morning and I looked around (trees were my favorite) I really noticed this theory in effect. "This is huge" I thought to myself. Everywhere I would gaze this theory was evident.Everwhere i looked I saw those offset curves. "man" i thought "my next drawing of trees is gonna rock" This was just like the time I first set eyes on a live Parrish work. I was breathless, dumbfounded, then when I researched his techniques I began to see the world as if it was a parrish painting, a very inspiring experience, one of only a few I have had, including this one. However, I was not done. I had to see if some of the greats had observed this thoery, not just in the figure, but elsewhere.
I trucked off to UArts library, the first book I grabbed was of the great Bruegel the elder, sure enough there were those curves, in his trees, mountains, figures, they were everywhere! Next up was Rubens, there were those curves again! Raphael...more curves, Michelangelo...curves, leonardo...curves and the list goes on and on! Today was an elightening day, huge, monumental! I can only hope that those fo you who have tried this theory out realize just how wonderfull it is! Thanks again, Rebecca!


Okay here are some silverpoint exercises on the topic of offset curves. Bits and pieces are really disapointing, I'll post a few more of better quality shortly.

Shaun

p.s. bandersnatch, that first one is a beaut.! Redpoly, you have some good volume in your sketches!

Rebeccak
07-05-2005, 11:12 PM
Wow wow wow! Thank you very much, stipick_S!!

Man, the work being posted is phenomenol ~ and I have to say ~ looking at the work of stipick_S, I have to say ~ Go stipick_S ~ it's your birthday! (Yeah, that last comment will make NO sense anywhere else but the US - but suffice it to say that your drawings are really, really nice_.

And I think the same of the other drawings posted today. Whew! Lotsa work to do! Better get crackin'...

Thanks everyone! Keep up the posting! This helps everyone! :)

~Rebeccak

Mirwen
07-05-2005, 11:14 PM
RebeccaK: I asked in the first thread something. I see it was too late (sorry) , so I am asking once again if you don't mind.

what was it you said you have some design stuff? Where can I find it?:drool: I love graphic design!

To one thread (one lesson) - should we post one or more sketches (or all sketches)?:curious: (misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=0#)

Than - should we post daily?:curious: (misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=0#)

New lesson - does it mean that we should be doing both daily gestural sketches and those new thingies?:curious: (misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=0#)

to all - I am really amazed by quality of work in this new lesson - It means I am quite shy right now to post my works because of that:blush: (misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=0#)

stipick_S
07-05-2005, 11:21 PM
Thanks I appreciate the compliment rebecca. My head just swelled up and I fell out of my seat... cant get up...feet flopping around in the air!

Shaun

To mirwen, I have watched these forums for a long time. For years i have observed and in that time I have posted only 4 times. Twice in this thread, and never have I posted any work, till now. I emplore you, please post, dont be shy, this is a learning thread and you may find you are a lot better than you believe. I understand that sometimes it can be intimidating! Dont let it get to you, jump right in and do it! It is fun!

default-rol
07-05-2005, 11:29 PM
Hi all -

Heres my first go at the new topic. Its a bit laboured I'm afraid.
Can someone PLEASE sort out "DAVID's" hand in front of his face - the perspective is driving me nuts! (I spent as much time on that hand as the rest of the image, it's too small and has no form even after countless re-draws - I just couldn't nail it.):scream:

The reference is off a google image search for "Michelangelo."

Anyway here it is...

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/5282/michelangelosdavid5ld.jpg

Rebeccak
07-05-2005, 11:32 PM
Mirwen wrote:

>RebeccaK: I asked in the first thread something. I see it was too late (sorry) , so I am asking once again if you don't mind.

Mirwen, no problem! I missed your post ~ sorry about that! Glad to see you here! :)

>what was it you said you have some design stuff? Where can I find it?:drool: I love graphic design!

Gack! In fact, I am working on my Website tonight with a friend. I am hoping it will be up in a few days to a week :) Please stay tuned.

WARNING: I am not a trained Graphic Designer! I really love Design, but my major was Illustration, and I'm sure this is obvious :) ~ I consider myself more of a Multimedia Designer whose main experience of all things digital has come through work and not (undergraduate) school. So, I'll have some stuff on my site that is "Design" related ~ you can be the 'teacher' then ;)

>To one thread (one lesson) - should we post one or more sketches (or all sketches)?

You may post several sketches ~ but use your best judgement as to how many. If you post an initial sketch, then begin to improve as the lesson progresses, PLEASE DO post improved sketches. However, I would limit the number to maybe 5-8 MAXIMUM, so the thread is not overwhelmed.

>Then - should we post daily?

Post as often as you like, so long as you do not post more than 5-8 MAXIMUM.

>New lesson - does it mean that we should be doing both daily gestural sketches and those new thingies?

Should the new Sub-Forum "Artistic Anatomy and Figurative Drawing" under WIP start ~ which I hope it will :) ~ I would like to have a whole THREAD FOR GESTURE DRAWINGS. However, due to the constraints of this thread, I would like to keep the focus on ONE TOPIC PER LESSON / THREAD.
By no means stop doing GESTURE Drawings because of this ~ please continue to do them! ~ in fact, you may want to continue to do GESTURE DRAWINGS and save them to be posted at a later date should the "Artistic Anatomy and Figurative Drawing" Sub-Forum begin!

>to all - I am really amazed by quality of work in this new lesson - It means I am quite shy right now to post my works because of that

POST YOUR WORK. Let me say this again...POST YOUR WORK!!

Thanks Mirwen!

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
07-05-2005, 11:34 PM
stipick_S,

lol! Mirwen, I could not agree more. I think there is a NOOBIE REVOLUTION going on here.

Our mantra: POST! POST! POST! POST! :)

~Rebeccak

NoirQ
07-05-2005, 11:39 PM
hell, if i can do it, you can post dude :P i'm sure noone will eat you :D

Rebeccak
07-05-2005, 11:43 PM
NoirQ~

Exactly the right attitude!

:)

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
07-06-2005, 12:09 AM
stipick_S, in his great story, has given me an idea:

Don't get carried away, but:

POST YOUR SIGHTINGS OF OFFSET CURVES IN NATURE OR IN MASTER DRAWINGS:



Unlike the Lochness Monster, OFFSET CURVES can be seen EVERYWHERE IN NATURE.

Only if you want to:

POST 1 (ONE) EXAMPLE OF OFFSET CURVES YOU FIND IN NATURE OR IN A MASTER DRAWING.

Let's see who can find the most dramatic examples...

NOTE: This should NOT replace posting your DRAWINGS.

Thanks everyone!

~Rebeccak

sphere
07-06-2005, 12:09 AM
Rebecca, have you got any tips on keeping lines really clean? I have a habit of going over my drawings too much, usually because I find I am not happy with my first line.

Xillion
07-06-2005, 12:12 AM
Whoa! This thread is making me happy and keeping me busy ;)...but it's Time to go to bed now so... Good night to all ;) and see you tomorrow!

Rebeccak
07-06-2005, 12:22 AM
Sphere wrote:

>have you got any tips on keeping lines really clean? I have a habit of going over my drawings too much, usually because I find I am not happy with my first line.

Sphere, it depends on the medium which you are using to a degree. I have gotten rather Photoshop / Wacom pen - happy as a direct result of revising folks' drawings on this thread ~ but I can tell you how I was trained traditionally, and maybe that will shed a bit of light on the inquiry...

Back in the day, when I walked to school with no shoes in the snow...

We basically learned to draw using clean, sweeping strokes of charcoal pencil. We were NOT allowed to erase (or erase much). This may seem strict or stupid, but in fact it helps you to concentrate on not making as many "mistakes".

I would always recommend drawing with single strokes in ONE direction - be it up or down, or sideways. I would NOT recommend drawing across the page "sketch" style, where one moves the pencil/pen eratically across the page/tablet. Your hand literally "forgets" where it was and what it was doing, and your drawing loses cohesion (and beauty) as a result.

If you are using Photoshop (or Painter) I would NOT recommend ERASING as a method of Drawing ~ that, I believe, is a PAINTING technique, and, when used to DRAW, enables you to cheat in an unhealthy way. The purpose of learning to DRAW is to be able to express what you see quickly and economically, without having to PAINT everything laboriously to achieve Form and Expression.

Just to RECAP:

DRAW IN ONE DIRECTION, and NOT ERRATICALLY.
THINK ABOUT WHAT LINE YOU CHOOSE TO EXPRESS AND DO NOT LET YOUR HAND GO ON AUTO - PILOT.
Hope this helps :)

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
07-06-2005, 12:51 AM
sphere,

Here is an example of what I meant about drawing SMOOTH LINES IN ONE DIRECTION ~ NOT DRAWING SKETCHY LINES:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop_II_OPPOSING%20CURVES/Smooth_vs_Sketch_Lines_smal.jpg

Hope this helps :)

~Rebeccak

RO
07-06-2005, 12:58 AM
First post... I know it is not a figure but hey you got to practice hands sometimes :)

Blue quick drawing and brown is more controlled.

edit: Yeah that is my hand :)

http://onlinewarriors.beyondunreal.com/RandomStuff/Figure1-8.jpg

Darktwin
07-06-2005, 01:16 AM
As I was getting ready to post a study my scanner went kaput, so I'm out of action for the mean time, but I wanted to post some studies I did not to long ago, they sort of apply to the curves. This is very disappointing, this is why I can't wait to get my wacom tablet. Here it is.

I'd also like to add, I really am enjoying everyones hard work and effort, everyone keep up the great work. Its truely motivating and inspiring, thanks again Rebeccak.

http://onajii.com/d_sketches/profile2.jpg

stipick_S
07-06-2005, 01:18 AM
One last post for today and this lesson, I'll keep practicing though.

sphere
07-06-2005, 01:37 AM
Thanks very much for that Rebecca! That was very helpful. I will practice some more and apply that technique.

stipick_S, very nice work!

ayaegi
07-06-2005, 02:15 AM
Thanks for running these lessons, Rebecca! I've already begun to realise how little I understand about anatomy.

Here's a start from me - the most basic curves. I'm going to come back to it and add the sub curves (arm muscles, etc.). I had to add the hair or else the arm position was kind of silly looking. Everyone is doing such inspiring work, I'm definitely going to follow these lessons.

http://qlink.queensu.ca/~3ea1/art/curves_1.jpg

Somhairle
07-06-2005, 03:09 AM
@ stipick_S:

WOW! I really love that sketch of the over-weight woman at the bottom of your first post! ex-cel-lent!

some really great stuff guys and gals!

- Somhairle

ashrumm
07-06-2005, 03:43 AM
Here is something i did a little while back I thought it pertained to lesson 2. Let me just say that I really love Conte crayon and after viewing your work Rebecca I love it even more.

http://onajii.com/a_sketches/torso_studycopyright.jpg

stipick_S
07-06-2005, 04:03 AM
ashrumm...oooh, thats good. Loving it! It's like Turner meets Frans Hals. Very cool.Desp. Nice hand. I appreciate the forshortening.

This is a follow up to rebeccas post about finding curves in a master's drawing. This piece is apollo by Raphael.

Rebeccak
07-06-2005, 04:30 AM
Great, great posts, everyone.

I HIGHLY RECOMMEND DOING WHAT stipick_S DID IN HIS MOST RECENT POST: TRACE OVER A MASTER DRAWING / S TO FIND THE OPPOSING CURVES.

NOTHING WILL IMPROVE YOUR DRAWING SKILLS LIKE LOOKING AT AND COPYING FROM THE WORKS OF THE OLD MASTERS ~ EVEN IF YOU BEGIN BY TRACING THEM.

Desp#2/Rog, nice hand drawing ~ but we'll get to those later ;) ~ for the time being, I think it's better to concentrate on the whole figure. BIG PICTURE first, details later...:).

Darktwin, thanks for submitting these ~ they are lovely drawings, but more ANATOMICAL STUDIES than Drawings which focus on Opposing Curves ~ so I look forward to seeing your new posts once your scanner is back online ;).

ayaegi, thank you for posting :) ~ I agree, the work is very inspiring, and that is the true purpose behind this thread ~ to inspire and be inspired! I hope you continue to post your work :) ~ bear in mind that you can post 5-8 pieces MAXIMUM, so feel free to post new work as it is created :).

ashrumm, nice, nice, nice drawing. I love to see work with this kind of emotional quality to it ~ and by emotional quality, I am not speaking of an angst-ridden drawing with dark black lines and scribbles, but exactly what you have here ~ a sensitively rendered piece which clearly shows your attention to both detail and emotional pitch...great to see!

Everyone,
Inspiring to see so much good work going on...keep it up, and keep posting your new results :)

~Rebeccak

RO
07-06-2005, 05:41 AM
Rebeccak your linked post that got pluged in the main fourm page has a bad link. It does not go to this thread but some random thread.

Edit: Ill get into people again on the next post :)

Somhairle
07-06-2005, 05:48 AM
well, I've been playing with some gestures to losen up a little, and *trying* to keep some life in this lessons line work. Here is my third atempt at "David", by Bernini Gian Lorenzo.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/dreoilin/samblake_David_03.jpg

reference:
http://www.thais.it/scultura/image/sch00006.htm

I've been playing a lot trying to get some decent brushes in painter. All I need now is a better graphics tablet! :)

- Somhairle

Rebeccak
07-06-2005, 06:09 AM
Desp#2/Rog,

THANK YOU. The front page link is being fixed as we speak.

Somhairle: :applause:

Beauty shot. Nice. Please post more like these. I've seen that statue in person, and am a HUGE fan of Bernini. Congrats on an excellent piece.

One crit: HIS left leg is a little funny. Want to SAVE this version, and give HIS left leg another shot? Just a suggestion :)

~Rebeccak

RobertoOrtiz
07-06-2005, 06:34 AM
The offending link has been fixed, and the guilty party has been taken outside and shot.


-R

CiaranM
07-06-2005, 07:25 AM
Hi!
Thanks so much for your lessons! Rebecca, you don't happen to know a guy named Steven Gaffney who teaches illustration at SVA in New York? He has a very similar style of teaching to you, as in opposing lines etc. Taught me a whole lot - not just how to draw a little, but also how to see the lines and shapes in the subject. Thanks for sharing. I'll contribute soon!

scorpion007
07-06-2005, 07:30 AM
Here's my first of (hopefully) more :)
50% size.
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/2665/poses046et.jpg

I already noticed some incorrect things, but oh well, feel free to crit all you want.

Heres the full size ref: http://www.abcgallery.com/M/michelangelo/michelangelo37.html

naresh
07-06-2005, 07:38 AM
hi ...itz realy very good stuf for those who are realy wanted to understand the anatomy....thanks

scorpion007
07-06-2005, 07:58 AM
great work everyone!

Here is my curve study: (used someone's ref image)
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/7629/curvestudy15fu.jpg


Also - BTW: Rebecca, remember when you recommended that book "Albinus on Anatomy"? Well i check my local bookstore and they had a book by that title, but by different authors.
The ones you wrote were Robert Beverly Hale & Terence Coyle, but the one they had was by Bernhard Siegfried Albinus. Is it the same thing? I checked amazon, seems to be similar, i think the only difference is the paper/hardback according to amazon? But why different authors?

Anyway.. keep up all the great work all.

FromanylanD
07-06-2005, 07:59 AM
http://www.animation-fromanyland.com/imgshow/torsoCurves03.jpg

Source #1: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop_II_OPPOSING%20CURVES/torso_demo_300dpi_small_FUL.jpg

Source #2: http://figuredrawings.com/figure02.jpg

Trying to focus more on the curves...try to ignore the poor line quality...should I pay more attention to the larger curves, and less to the curves within the form?

'Nother question Rebecca...any thoughts on the technique I'm kinda sorta using, doing a rough pass in colored pencil and then a finer dark pass? (Actually, none of the drawings I've posted really show how I'd normally use this technique..on the first two the underlying pass is too dark, and the above drawings are just...unusual.) Is this more suited to design, or do you think it's fine for life drawing? (Of course anything's really fine in the long run...but I mean, is it putting me at a disadvantage in learning figure drawing/anatomy)?

EDIT: the technique appeals to me, and I've used it a lot...but I guess it's safer and less raw than other mediums/methods. I think I'll do the next ones in charcoal or graphite stick, but I'd still like to know what your opinion of it is.

eggsrgood
07-06-2005, 08:03 AM
First of all a huge thanks to Rebecca, you're an amazing teacher. I think maybe some donations should be in order for all the time you've put in:D. I've never had any lessons before but the lessons here so far have been a huge help. The talent here is very inspiring
http://users.tpg.com.au/wildrice/Pics/lesson_2.jpg

naresh
07-06-2005, 08:07 AM
can ay one tell me how to upload my drawings ...plzzz

Rebeccak
07-06-2005, 08:08 AM
stipick_S ~

Thank you for posting your work! ~ I am extremely confident that you are on the right track. That being said, here is my review of your work :)

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop_II_OPPOSING%20CURVES/REVIEWED_stipick_S_OC_79_1.jpg

Do not be alarmed at all of these little nutty comments. I think that your drawings are extremely carefully ~ and for the most part, accurately ~ drawn, and for this I greatly commend you. These comments of mine are merely recommendations, and are meant to point out some minor flaws which hold these otherwise really good drawings back a bit. So take these comments with a grain of salt, and please let me know what you think.

Thank you for posting these, and I look forward to more of your great posts!

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
07-06-2005, 08:38 AM
CiaranM,

Thanks for your post! I hope to see your work soon :) I do not know of any Steven Gaffney, but this opposing curve style has its origins in a teacher from SVA whose name I forget, but who was a teacher of mine's mentor...

scorpion007,

Great post! Did you do any tracing? If so, fine, just curious :)
Make sure to get the "Albinus on Anatomy" by Robert Beverly Hale & Terence Coyle.
On your second post of the Greco/Roman statue, I think this is good ~ however, I would look for a more dynamic statue or drawing to trace ~ I highly recommend Michelangelo and Rubens for Opposing Curves :)

naresh,

You are welcome! Look forward to your posts :)

FromanylanD wrote:

>Trying to focus more on the curves...try to ignore the poor line quality...should I pay more attention to the larger curves, and less to the curves within the form?

Yes, pay attention to the LARGE CURVES FIRST which define the outside form. I think this is a really good effort ~ I like that you tackled the whole statue without tracing. I would, however, recommend TRACING (THE REFERENCE OF THE) STATUE ALSO. This is not cheating, but learning how the Masters created THEIR forms through Opposing Curves.
After tracing, I would recommend going back to the same REFERENCE to draw freehand a second drawing. Your second drawing will show TREMENDOUS improvement :)

>'Nother question Rebecca...any thoughts on the technique I'm kinda sorta using, doing a rough pass in colored pencil and then a finer dark pass? (Actually, none of the drawings I've posted really show how I'd normally use this technique..on the first two the underlying pass is too dark, and the above drawings are just...unusual.) Is this more suited to design, or do you think it's fine for life drawing? (Of course anything's really fine in the long run...but I mean, is it putting me at a disadvantage in learning figure drawing/anatomy)?

When you are learning to break down form, there is really NO WRONG WAY in which to do so.
That being said, I would make a few recommendations with reference to your technique: Firstly, I would not use colored pencil as if it were charcoal ~ it is not. Colored pencil is waxy and a bit resistant to the surface of paper, and I highly dislike this because it means I have to go over strokes which I did not wish to reinforce. If you wish to work in traditional media, I would HIGHLY recommend using charcoal, particularly on good paper, which it looks as though you may be using. I use General's 6B pencils because they have a solid black mark which forces me to be sensitive to line weight and to pay attention to what I am doing for fear of making "mistakes". If you must use colored pencil, use it as a PENCIL and constantly sharpen it so as to leave clean marks. DARK 6B Charcoal Pencils will give you a range of expressiveness which a colored pencil will not.

eggsrgood,

Thank you :)

EDIT: Woo! Your drawing just showed up in my browser! Nice! :)

naresh,

I use www.photobucket.com (http://www.photobucket.com/) to host my images. It's free up to a certain capacity.


Thanks all for your Awesome posts! I can REALLY see the effort here, so Thank You!

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
07-06-2005, 08:52 AM
'Night all. Thanks for your posts! :)

~Rebeccak

FromanylanD
07-06-2005, 09:38 AM
http://www.bunnybass.com/e-zine/phototips/00.examplepics/drawings/drawingpics/after_michelangelo.jpg

http://www.animation-fromanyland.com/imgshow/after_michelangeloEdit.jpg


Photoshop tracing of a Michelangelo drawing. I'm trying to indicate some strong opposing curves with those orange fans :rolleyes:.

When you are learning to break down form, there is really NO WRONG WAY in which to do so.
That being said, I would make a few recommendations with reference to your technique: Firstly, I would not use colored pencil as if it were charcoal ~ it is not. Colored pencil is waxy and a bit resistant to the surface of paper, and I highly dislike this because it means I have to go over strokes which I did not wish to reinforce. If you wish to work in traditional media, I would HIGHLY recommend using charcoal, particularly on good paper, which it looks as though you may be using. I use General's 6B pencils because they have a solid black mark which forces me to be sensitive to line weight and to pay attention to what I am doing for fear of making "mistakes". If you must use colored pencil, use it as a PENCIL and constantly sharpen it so as to leave clean marks. DARK 6B Charcoal Pencils will give you a range of expressiveness which a colored pencil will not.

Great...I know you already strongly suggested charcoal, but I chickened out. I'll try to acquire some of those pencils...right now I've got a Pro Art Sepia Dark, General's Charcoal White, a lot of Faber-Castell natural charcoal (the twigs), and some unidentified soft square sticks. The majority of what I post from now on will be...charcoal.

scorpion007
07-06-2005, 09:59 AM
Rebecca, thanks for your comments, to answer your question, no. I didn't trace at all. I had the reference side by side with my picture though, that's fine right?
Though i did trace over my own drawing on another layer to refine it, as you can see from the pic.

FromanylanD, cool stuff!

FromanylanD
07-06-2005, 10:02 AM
FromanylanD, cool stuff!

The Michelangelo draw-over, or my stuff? :scream:

scorpion007
07-06-2005, 11:21 AM
naresh, you need to host your images somewhere, such as www.imageshack.us (http://www.imageshack.us)
Then you can use them in your post.

Here's another study i made. First with HB pencil, (tried 6B progresso but the drawing was pretty bad hehe :P, so I tried again with HB on a slightly easier reference.) then scanned into PS and refined in a new layer. Its not perfect, but let me know your thoughts :)
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/856/poses057dp.th.jpg (http://img133.imageshack.us/my.php?image=poses057dp.jpg)
Here is the reference URL: http://www.abcgallery.com/M/michelangelo/michelangelo18.html

A side note: I give EVERYONE permission to paintover/analyze ALL of my works posted here. Just in case that wasn't obvious :P

EDIT:
FromanylanD, both :)

NOOB!
07-06-2005, 11:28 AM
fromy,hope to see sum more stuff from u soon,hope u learnt sumthin from the michelangelo drawing.

thetrianglekid
07-06-2005, 12:20 PM
once again, rebecca, AWESOME thread

i'm learning a LOT and i'm not even posting any images (don't have a scanner). PLEASE keep doing what you're doing.

fromanyland, really excellent work!

Rebeccak
07-06-2005, 12:25 PM
FromanylanD,

Ah, so who did the copy of the Libyan Sibyl ~ charcoal version? If it is you, then I must congratulate you on executing a beautiful drawing.

For your Photoshop trace, I would recommend using a slightly less opaque setting ~ this will allow the tail ends of your strokes to fade out a bit, which could give you a bit more range...

scorpion007,

Cool :) ~ I am glad to hear you didn't trace ~ not because there is anything wrong with doing so ~ quite the opposite for the purposes of these exercises ~ but because it looks as though you did quite a good job! :)

NOOB!,

I am preparing myself to be ultra-impressed with FromanylanD if he did the charcoal copy of Michelangelo's famous drawing of the Libyan Sibyl for the Sistine Chapel Ceiling...which is, by the way, my favorite drawing of all time... :)

FromanylanD
07-06-2005, 12:36 PM
You mean this? http://www.animation-fromanyland.com/imgshow/michelangeloCharcoalCopy.jpg

If so, yeah, I did that...it's just a shoulder by the way ;) I wouldn't consider it a copy of the Libyan Sibyl...which, I tentatively admit, I had no idea I was copying.

EDIT: somehow, I think you're talking about something else entirely...

Point taken about the Photoshop opacity.

FromanylanD
07-06-2005, 12:41 PM
Oh you mean this?!?

http://www.bunnybass.com/e-zine/phototips/00.examplepics/drawings/drawingpics/after_michelangelo.jpg

That, I did not do...found it through Google Image...thought it was an original...

stipick_S
07-06-2005, 01:23 PM
Grain of salt! Grain of salt!
No way! Those comments were diamonds, diamonds so large and fantastic that the Hope diamond would run away in embarrassment at its own insignificance. Thank you.

I appreciate the critique. Like I had said it has been years since I have done this and these were exercises that perhaps i did not spend enouugh time on. I think each drawing I did took no longer than 10 minutes ( i think in all I did about 30 or 40 drawings, some big some small). I require instant gratification and have to redevelop patience. I have the luxury of choosing when i go to work, so I took yesterday off and just drew for the first time in a very very long time. I have so much to learn and this thread was the perfect catalyst. Your instruction so far has been invaluable. The critique was awesome, and anybody looking at the sketches can tell there are some major problems and you helped demystify what those problems were. No offense taken here, gratification would be the better term!

Critiques are nothing to shy away from and the more people have to add ,the more I can learn, you can be mean or nice (rebecca , you are nice) it doesnt matter to me because I will learn from it and grow better. Moral of the story: To all the guys afraid to post, dont be, you might learn something.


SHaun

P.s. Now if only there was a thread for spelling and grammar, I sure could use one.

Rebeccak
07-06-2005, 02:05 PM
FromanylanD wrote:

>Oh you mean this?!?

Yep...that's a really good copy, but I'd know the real thing from a mile away...
Here's the Michelangelo original (http://www.wga.hu/art/m/michelan/4drawing/sistina/libyan.jpg) ~ DEFINITELY worth a drool, I mean, a look :)

stipick_S wrote:
No way! Those comments were diamonds, diamonds so large and fantastic that the Hope diamond would run away in embarrassment at its own insignificance. Thank you.



Hahaha! You are most welcome! And I appreciate how enthusiastic you are about this topic ~ it's great to see :).

>Critiques are nothing to shy away from and the more people have to add ,the more I can learn, you can be mean or nice (rebecca , you are nice) it doesnt matter to me because I will learn from it and grow better. Moral of the story: To all the guys afraid to post, dont be, you might learn something.

AGREED. POST. YOUR. WORK. :)

>I did about 30 or 40 drawings, some big some small

WOW. Awesomeness...

Great stuff, guys! Keep it up!

~Rebeccak

alesmav
07-06-2005, 02:06 PM
Howdy!

Since I am a beginner and just recently started a figure drawing this thread is exactly what I needed. I have been doing box figures for about a year now and I think it is one of the best practices in learning how to orient your figure in space. Now I am trying to give a little more definiton to my drawings and I just found out about this opposing curves method yesterday as I visited this thread. I was amazed how something so simple can make so much sense. The results were starting to show up right away and for now I call it THE method. I've also watched Vilppu Spherical Forms DVD and he basically talks about the same thing. He also goes and explains how the old masters used this method to their advantage. So thank you Rebecca for helping us beginners discover the method. I am sure It will make my drawings a lot more rewarding and fun in the future.

Anyway...

Here's one of my first attempts of figure drawing using opposing curves... You can comment and crit all you want. Just please bear in mind that I have actively started drawing only a few months ago (since I bought my first sketch book :) ).

ALES

Rebeccak
07-06-2005, 02:12 PM
alesmav wrote,

>Just please bear in mind that I have actively started drawing only a few months ago...

WOW! Are you kidding? This drawing is fantastic ~! Great stuff, keep on posting! :)

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
07-06-2005, 02:17 PM
Ok, I just have to post this...sometimes I get the heebie jeebies, looking at this drawing...but that's just me :)


http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop_II_OPPOSING%20CURVES/libyan.jpg

Economy, power, beauty, intelligence...~and~check out those Opposing Curves!
*I want to be like Mike* :)

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
07-06-2005, 02:30 PM
I FINALLY remembered the name of the SVA guy who has a book about drawing using Opposing Curves:

James McMullan.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0879515368/pricecompar0d-20/ref%3Dnosim/102-1911993-6034569 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0879515368/pricecompar0d-20/ref%3Dnosim/102-1911993-6034569)

From what I remember, a master of this technique.

Enjoy :)

~Rebeccak

EDIT:
scorpion007, just saw your post ~ great stuff, keep going ~ the more one does of these, the absolute better... ;)

thetrianglekid,
I'm thrilled to hear you're learning from this! :)

HundredMonkeys
07-06-2005, 02:38 PM
Great thread!

<img src="http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/HundredMonkeys/Figure1.gif" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

Rebeccak
07-06-2005, 02:55 PM
Everyone,

I just updated Post #3 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2436819&postcount=3) at the beginning of this thread - it now has an UPDATED LIST OF REFERENCE BOOKS FOR ARTISTIC ANATOMY AND FIGURATIVE DRAWING.

Check it out!

~Rebeccak

RO
07-06-2005, 03:20 PM
I FINALLY remembered the name of the SVA guy who has a book about drawing using Opposing Curves:

James McMullan.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0879515368/pricecompar0d-20/ref%3Dnosim/102-1911993-6034569 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0879515368/pricecompar0d-20/ref%3Dnosim/102-1911993-6034569)

From what I remember, a master of this technique.

Enjoy :)

~Rebeccak

EDIT:
scorpion007, just saw your post ~ great stuff, keep going ~ the more one does of these, the absolute better... ;)

thetrianglekid,
I'm thrilled to hear you're learning from this! :)

Ooooo I am pretty sure I am going to take a class of his in SVA. I remember that name.

alesmav
07-06-2005, 03:21 PM
One more from the apprentice...

ALES

pulver
07-06-2005, 03:23 PM
Hi! I just have to join this thread. I have waited for something like this for a long time. I haven’t been drawing for several weeks now, but when I saw this thread I just had to try it out.



So hear is my first attempt, I made it just before I went to bed, witch can be noticed for example on the bad drawn hands.



(Sorry for the bad quality, I have no scanner so I hade to take a photo of the paper and fix some contrast stuff in Photoshop)
http://jocar009.thg.se/first.jpg


hi res (without contrast fix): http://jocar009.thg.se/DSCN0791.JPG

refferens: http://www.student.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~crhawlik/Halloween-2004/Random%20Guy%20at%20Frat%20Party.JPG

I’m going to draw some more now when I’m not so tired.



This is the best thread in a long while! Thanks Rebecca:thumbsup:



(Feel free to give critics to the painting, but not on my bad English:D )

RO
07-06-2005, 03:36 PM
Now that is a funny reference!

:beer:

Rebeccak
07-06-2005, 03:39 PM
I looked at the reference too ~ I think I just snarfed my soda.

When encountering reference such as this, I think...What Would Michelangelo Do?

:scream:

~Rebeccak

NoirQ
07-06-2005, 03:55 PM
issues still remain, but bleh, practice practice practice :D

EDIT: image is on page 12 now i think :D

NOOB!
07-06-2005, 03:59 PM
thats a big improvement noir!

peekoot
07-06-2005, 04:09 PM
Ok, I just have to post this...sometimes I get the heebie jeebies, looking at this drawing...but that's just me :)


http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop_II_OPPOSING%20CURVES/libyan.jpg

Economy, power, beauty, intelligence...~and~check out those Opposing Curves!
*I want to be like Mike* :)

~Rebeccak

bah! look at the bottom right corner.. guy spilled his coffee over it :)

ps
sorry for pointless post.. couldn't resist.. have it this way: at least you get to see Mike on two pages ;)

drawing is simply amazing.. he knew how to make sculptures even on paper

FromanylanD
07-06-2005, 04:23 PM
http://www.animation-fromanyland.com/imgshow/libyanCopy.jpg

Couldn't resist either...hope this isn't too off topic...I did these quickly, 15 minutes at the most for each.

EDIT: additionally, I've been awake for 24 hours again...I'll be sharp and back on topic when I wake up :)

franzboas
07-06-2005, 04:29 PM
please may i post a sketch of a hand . will there be opposing curves there especially in the fingers and palms? may i also know what is the advantage of using a model over a photo?


and this thread is great. i was completely wandering about for someone to tel me summat about anatomy. thanks ma'm.

shreyas

Rebeccak
07-06-2005, 04:33 PM
pulver,

Thank you for your post and for your comments! They are appreciated :) I must say, I find your reference hilarious! My co-workers may not have appreciated getting snarfed on ~ but oh well (j/k!)

NoirQ,

Keep going! Thanks for posting these! I think the bottom one shows promise especially ~ my recommendation is to trace over your own drawings (using tracing paper OR Photoshop, whichever you prefer) to improve the confidence of your linework. Good work so far! Keep posting! :)

FromanylanD,

Well, I knew this would be irresistable bait for you ~ great initiative! Are you using one of those compressed charcoal sticks? They're not bad, but I would recommend either A. sharpening it to a point or B. Using Charcoal Pencils ;)

The linework which you are so confident with in your first drawing becomes muddled in your second, which is a pity ~ considering that your notation of form is relatively good ~ I am guessing that with a charcoal stick you can't press down hard for fear of breaking the stick and are limited in the range of calligraphic linework which you can do ~ did I mention to try a Charcoal pencil? ;)

Great work, guys, these are making my day!

EDIT: franzboas, you may post a picture of a hand ~ but also later post a drawing of the full figure, as I want to keep this thread relatively streamlined :) ~thanks!

~Rebeccak

FromanylanD
07-06-2005, 04:52 PM
FromanylanD,

Well, I knew this would be irresistable bait for you ~ great initiative! Are you using one of those compressed charcoal sticks? They're not bad, but I would recommend either A. sharpening it to a point or B. Using Charcoal Pencils ;)

The linework which you are so confident with in your first drawing becomes muddled in your second, which is a pity ~ considering that your notation of form is relatively good ~ I am guessing that with a charcoal stick you can't press down hard for fear of breaking the stick and are limited in the range of calligraphic linework which you can do ~ did I mention to try a Charcoal pencil? ;)

Ah yes, compressed charcoal stick, that's better than twig :scream:. Nah, the sticks aren't that brittle, I just...suck with charcoal, and approached it in a completely different way than the pencil one...that is, with no idea what I'm doing (note: I did the charcoal one first). Still getting a sense of it. I should be getting some proper charcoal pencils (hopefully General 6B like you suggested) today.

EDIT: to everyone, sorry for not responding to any comments, or providing any comments of my own...soon to be remedyed.

Rebeccak
07-06-2005, 04:55 PM
FromanylanD wrote:

>I should be getting some proper charcoal pencils (hopefully General 6B like you suggested) today.

Eggsellent. My diabolical plan to reform the world through the use of 6B Charcoal pencils is working splendidly. :)

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
07-06-2005, 05:03 PM
EDIT:

LINK TO REFERENCE BOOK LIST & TRADITIONAL MEDIA SUPPLY LIST (ADDED TO FIRST PAGE OF THIS LESSON):

#3 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2436819&postcount=3)

~Rebeccak

fabian84
07-06-2005, 05:33 PM
So Heres a couple of my opposing curves drawings. I used Michelangelo for reference, as you can see - David, Creation of Adam, and Captive. Everyone here is doing an awesome job. I am envious but will continue working and posting! Everybody have a great Day! Once again thanks again Rebecca!
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/9517/opposingcurves16at.jpg
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/9554/opposingcurves28zx.jpg

WyattHarris
07-06-2005, 05:59 PM
It takes 10 years to learn how to draw ~ 7 if you're a genius.

This reminds me of a quote on a different subject. It takes 5 years to learn to play the violin badly. After that you can begin to learn to play it well.

The same goes for any creative output. I'm going on 20 years on the violin and I still have things to learn. It all boils down to practice, practice, practice.

Rebeccak
07-06-2005, 06:05 PM
fabian84,

Great posts! I especially like the one which you drew from Michelangelo's Captive Slave ~ the torso and head twist is convincing, and HIS right leg, particularly the upper part, is also well-drawn. Keep up the good work! :)

WyattHarris,

Practice is definitely key ~ but it also helps to be motivated by the good work of others! :)

EDIT: HundredMonkeys, just saw your post! Excellent work...I will have time to review posts soon...

Keep it up, guys!

~Rebeccak

thewave
07-06-2005, 06:36 PM
Rebekkah,
The Burne Hogarth really shows through in your works. It would be nice to see some more of your style in the drawings and some new topics which we could not get from his books on dynamic figure drawing and the human form.

He is an excellent artist and understands the way anatomy works to a science.

I would love to hear your fresh opinions on this topic of human drawing.

Rebeccak
07-06-2005, 07:03 PM
thewave wrote:

>The Burne Hogarth really shows through in your works.

Thank you! :) This is a great compliment, and he was a great teacher.

>It would be nice to see some more of your style in the drawings and some new topics which we could not get from his books on dynamic figure drawing and the human form.

It's great that you mention this ~ I have received permission to moderate, along with Roberto Ortiz, a new SUB-FORUM called "Artistic Anatomy and Figurative Drawing" under WIP/Critique: 2D, Illustrations and Concept Art (http://www.cgtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=31). So this is a perfect time for people to suggest topics for threads which they would like to see in this new SUB-FORUM! A big "Thank You" to CGTalk! :)

Do you have something specific in mind in terms of new topics? I am completely open to suggestions and happy to entertain any thoughts you might have ~ and I greatly hope that you and everyone else will return to contribute to the new forum, about which I am really excited! The great interest and work exhibited in this and the last Anatomy Review thread shows me that there is a real need for people to exhibit their expressive talents ~ and I am thrilled to have the opportunity to be a part of such a rich and dynamic creative community ~ so definitely post your thoughts and ideas regarding the new forum, as well as topics which you would like to see covered on this thread. Soon, this thread will move to its new home within the "Artistic Anatomy and Figurative Drawing" SUB-FORUM. Hope to see everyone there! :)

>I would love to hear your fresh opinions on this topic of human drawing.

Thank you! :) For the time being, I have planned a series of topics for the ongoing Anatomy Review thread which I would like to stick to. But when the "Artistic Anatomy and Figurative Drawing" Sub-Forum opens up, basically we will be creating separate threads dedicated solely to specific issues pertaining to Artistic Anatomy and Figurative Art. Hopefully peoples' daily contributions to these threads will make this Forum a rich resource for artists of all ilk ~ be they 3D artists looking to create better orthographic drawings, 2D concept and creature designers, or 2- and 3D fine artists.

I wholeheartedly welcome everyone's thoughts and opinions regarding what kinds of topics they would like to see addressed in the "Artistic Anatomy and Figurative Drawing" Sub-Forum.

Thanks for your post ~ I look forward to your participation :)

Thanks to everyone who has stopped by or participated in this and the last thread...I am thrilled that so many folks are interested in this and have put forth their time and myriad talents to contribute - THANK YOU!!!

~Rebeccak

NOOB!
07-06-2005, 07:07 PM
wohooo! i know a future mod.

i mean..yeh...no ideas yet.

RO
07-06-2005, 07:44 PM
Had to go back to Bruce Lee for this one http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

1) Gesture (Blue)
2) Opposing Curves (Brown)
3) shadow shade with brown.
4) white for highlights.

Done in PS. With a nice paper background texture http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/grin.gif

http://onlinewarriors.beyondunreal.com/RandomStuff/bl1-5.jpg

HAPPY DAYS! with that news of a new area for figure drawing and such!!! Congrats and I hope to use it a good bit.

NOOB!
07-06-2005, 08:11 PM
ok becks,

topic ideas

1.proportions of man and woman.

2.learning how muscles connect *no not a sceince lesson,just a lil info on how the muscles work with the aid of drawings so we can practice*

3.drawing the face,people have loads of problems with that.

4.drawings hands WHOA,even harder .

5.dynamic drawing,line of action etc.

right now i can't think of more....

gunna moderate a forum all by ureself...phew...

RobertoOrtiz
07-06-2005, 08:17 PM
Well I dont know about herself...

Trust me, she will have some help.
-R

Rebeccak
07-06-2005, 08:21 PM
Desp#2/Rog,

Thanks for the post! I like the sequence!

NOOB!

Thank you for the list of ideas ~ this helps me a lot. It will be great fun watching as all of these new threads grow!

RobertoOrtiz,

Yep, as my co-moderator, I will definitely be nagging you for advice and expertise!

Thanks for the posts!

~Rebeccak

NOOB!
07-06-2005, 08:24 PM
Well I dont know about herself...

Trust me, she will have some help.
-R

lol,ok mod king!

stipick_S
07-06-2005, 09:13 PM
From. - you are good. You have a style that has a great expressiveness to it. I would love to see what you would do with pen and ink wash. I assume you are aware of Tiepolo... I think your ink wash work might look a lot like his...or not. I don't know what I am talking about... I just like your stuff.


Rebeca- I approach allmost everything with enthusiasm. I cant help it, I remember going to school ( i have a BFA and an assoc {which ironicly I picked up after my bfa}) and the first time around I was a boring mess and wasted more time then I care to admit. I had been working two jobs and studying and life just became a real bore and I was miserable. After i graduated I had a real wake up call. The second time around I think my enthusiasm really aggravated my clasmates, but who cares I had a blast.

If you become involved in something you should be enthusiastic, epescially art. Art is never fun if you're drawing what you do not want to. So the key to doing even the most tedious task is to be enthusiastic and make it fun ( not that this is tedious, it is'nt. I have been looking for a thread like this for a long time). Create some "false hype" and you're flying first class!! Life is good!

Shaun

P.S. I am going to post all of my drawings from each exercise on my website. If anybdy wants to see some really bad drawings (and maybe a couple of passable ones) they can be found there under the sketchbook tab. I expect it to be up by tonight. Thanks everyone.

Kitami
07-06-2005, 09:19 PM
ok did this from a ref i dont have anymore :o

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/9236/man0018yy.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

And i want to add to Rebecca, your threads are great, i read every post and i really feel im learning alot, keep these posts coming!

Michiel t.B.
07-06-2005, 09:25 PM
ah, shoot! I still haven't been able to do as much drawing as necessary :sad: ... I'll try to keep up though. Here are some topic ideas as an addition to NOOB!'s ones:

- Foreshortening & Perspective
- Treating specific parts of the body, and opposite of that treating really holistic subjects to improve the overall figure (like the gesture drawing, the curves, proportion etc.)
- Expression & body language (is still anatomy, right?)
- Correct way of form of the figure when (for example) applying force (pulling\pushing etc.)
- Maybe there'd be a way to have a place with only brief, useful overviews of each session, which, after lots of sessions, could result in like an anatomy-book in its own kind!

Hmm, I guess you'd see some of them coming from miles away, and others are really out there... But what the hey, just trying to help!

Rebeccak
07-06-2005, 09:42 PM
Thanks for the suggestions, guys! Kitami, thanks for posting your work! :)

As for potential topics, don't get completely hung up on the word "ANATOMY" ~ as the thread is dedicated to FIGURE DRAWING as a whole :)

Thanks again for the input :)

~Rebeccak

WyattHarris
07-06-2005, 09:55 PM
Well here goes. This is the first pic in these discussions I've used reference on. The reference I used is... uh... me. I've got these huge mirrors in my office I use for animation and in trying to figure out what to sketch I looked over and (snap) there it was.

Here is the gesture drawing. Or as I call it lesson 1.
http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/anatomy/curve1.jpg

And here is the finish. NO, I didn't draw this in the nude :D I just used my imagination for those parts. I tried to take a picture but you know. Mirror, flash, didn't work out. I can see now my current tools just aren't going to work as we progress. The mechanical pencil is great for detail but it is crap for shading.

Have at it Rebekka. Rebekka only please.

http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/anatomy/curve2.jpg

Edit: The more I look at this, the more problems I see, Gah! What is that goofy mouth I drew.

NOOB!
07-06-2005, 09:58 PM
man...his cigarette is too close to his man package,what if he accidently dropped it..

anyway nice attempt!!

Rebeccak
07-06-2005, 09:58 PM
WyattHarris,

Ok. That's just funny. Are you telling me...you sit in your office...al dente? lol! :hmm:

In these, as in other situations, I just ask myself...what would Michelangelo do?

Thanks for posting! :)

~Rebeccak

NOOB!
07-06-2005, 09:59 PM
wait..is that a cigarette or a smokin pencil?

WyattHarris
07-06-2005, 10:03 PM
man...his cigarette is too close to his man package,what if he accidently dropped it..

Sketchpad, pencil, get it. Aw crap, shoulda put an eraser on the pencil. :D Well at least it did look like smoke.


Ok. That's just funny. Are you telling me...you sit in your office...al dente? lol! :hmm:


Keep reading, you'll see.

Edit: Yep, you got it.

WyattHarris
07-06-2005, 10:18 PM
I just ask myself...what would Michelangelo do?

On that topic let me ask you a question. I look at the below pic and I see the mastery in it easily. That is very well drawn, especially since it was just a sketch that he later painted (my finished pieces don't look near this good).

But when you really look at it people don't look that way, it is highly exaggerated. I call that kind of technique the cauliflower look because the skin has that bumpy texture. Even a VERY (not bodybulder) muscular person still has smooth shiney skin. See below pictures. I look at my legs (The only really muscular part on me) and I see smooth curves very much like the dreaded (). Not these curves upon curves upon curves. I'm not really sure what I'm trying to ask but I guess I'm just saying is it really so great to draw "like Mike". It's not very realistic (my leaning) but it is very beautiful. I guess I'm asking more your opinion than anything else.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop_II_OPPOSING%20CURVES/libyan.jpg

http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/ohe/library/bodyimage/muscle.jpg
http://www.silverdrugs.com/images/muscle.jpg

NOOB!
07-06-2005, 10:26 PM
interesting point wyatt.

all i can say is..exaggerated curves.... looks better.simple as heh.

NoirQ
07-06-2005, 10:28 PM
Ok, gunna edit pic out of last post, palced it here instead.

Mef, some came out ok, some i had quite large issues with, but still, fun none the less. these were (the new ones) from photos of celebrities, not sure why, but i chose to do that. top right pic, she had high heel shoes on, hence the leg stopping halfway up. erm yeah, there we go. Obviously i don't expect critquing of any of this, but figure i'll post them, keeps everyone amused :D Keep up the good work, i got the burning pencil thing wyatt :D nice pic, made me laugh

edit: go for your life if u wanna doddle on it btw

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a202/NoirQ/lesson2-collage.jpg

edit3:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a202/NoirQ/lesson2-collage2.jpg

new ones. they may not be good, but fun to do anyway :) if only they had taught me this stuff at school, i may have actually done art then! :/ oh well, i crash on :)


edit2: rebecca, i will try the tracing thing :) i can;t do it in photoshop, as my wacom is with my other art supplies 100 miles away lol! i'll give it a go tomorrow :) thanks

RO
07-06-2005, 10:53 PM
@ WyattHarris post

No real answer to that one I would think. The way I could explain is that it is the idealized form. It is almost like drawing the muscle structure with very few layers of skin. Only few people in the world have reached that chiseled look. When the master made the statues and drawings in those times it was mostly about the idealized human form, the pure beauty of the form. It is amazing looking but we all recognize that this is not real but it is infect very beautiful. I guess we could say nobody in this world will ever make a true drawing of a human being because of all the prior thoughts behind our own individual works. We take what we think of that person and do our own idealizations on paper. The hardest drawings for me are self portraits. You know, it should be the easiest of them all since you see yourself every single day in the mirror at some point. But it is hard because you never ever want to make yourself look bad on paper so you take more so what you think you should look like instead of what you really look like. Plus when you look at yourself in a mirror do you actually see in detail when brushing your hair...It is usally sectioned attention when you look in the mirror. With figure drawing and mostly these training things do is give technical base of an organic figure. It gives you the tools to understand how lines could react depending on the pose.


Some of those thoughts are thoughts my teacher talked about.

Rebeccak
07-06-2005, 11:27 PM
Ok, I have to jump into the mix a bit here.

WyattHarris,

I think your drawing is interesting, but allow me to request that you post a more serious, studied, classical drawing. I think the drawing which you posted is funny, but I want to maintain a certain tone on this thread, which is one of serious study of the human figure.

Having said that with respect to your image, I really like what you later wrote. There is a whole field of study called "Aesthetics", and I am no philosopher, but I do know that beauty exists in form which we respond to and that Michelangelo, in his preparatory drawings for the painting of the Sistine Chapel ceiling, was in tune with a certain level of beauty like no other artist on earth in history.

The pictures which you posted of bodybuilders hold no aesthetic appeal for me ~ true, they are "realistic" in that they exactly depict what can be seen by the eyes. But Drawing is about more than just depicting exactly what you can see ~ I believe that Drawing, at its best, involves one's emotions, intellect, and inner sense of aesthetics ~ if I didn't feel this way, then I would be forced to conclude that your average 80's airbrush artist who could paint a hyperrealistic portrait was a "superior" artist to Michelangelo ~ you may conclude this, no one can stop you ~ but this is, by my estimation, rather ridiculous. I believe that there is something in a "real" Drawing which you cannot pinpoint, but which you can understand as inherently "true" ~ this is a feeling, and not something that can be diagrammed or proved. And why should Art exist at all, if there is no need for Expression? Why not just put pictures of bodybuilders on our walls and have artists call it a day?

This gets into a matter of TASTE. I respond to certain drawings of the Old Masters in a certain way because they affect me on an emotional level which photographs of people do not. You can feel in certain drawings the passion the artist had for them, and this quality reaches out and affects what you "see" ~ to me that's why one becomes rather weary going through an Art Museum ~ because you are being affected subconsciously on many levels, and certain emotional demands are being placed on you invisibly, so to speak, by works of art which are communicating something to you which is in the language of aesthetics.

That's my take on this topic ~ no one has to agree with me ~ but I personally believe that there is a vast gulf between what an artist like Michelangelo depicts and what a photographically faithful artist conveys through their work.

Thanks for your posts!

~Rebeccak

EDIT:

It is true that artists like Michelangelo put into their drawings muscles and superficial forms which do not exist ~ this is part of his aesthetic.

I wouldn't expect someone to put these kinds of muscles into every figure which they drew ~ however, studying these "exaggerated" master works, as you might call them, is an incredible way to learn how to draw ~ and when you start to draw this way, you will begin to see the artistry that is lacking in some of the artwork with which you are bombarded in your everyday life. ~Just my take on things.

Xillion
07-06-2005, 11:56 PM
Hi all, I updated my post (#50) with some new work. Hope you like it and I would gladly hear some comments (do they all look like digital or not ? which one is more 'natural media' looking ?)
Today I took my (rusty) pencil and did some roughs...I found it really easier to tone with it than with the tablet. I usually tone with the side of the pencil but while my graphire supports pen pressure it lacks tilting...does anyone have a tilting capable tablet ? Is it useful?
Anyway...I'd gladly hear suggestions on how to tone properly with the wacom+Photoshop CS2 (maybe a combination of brush parameters?)

Rebeccak
07-07-2005, 12:05 AM
Xillion,

I was just going through the drawings I've saved from this thread, and thinking how nice yours were ~ it's wonderful to see that you're taking this so seriously, and your effort really shows. No promises, but I'm trying to work on your review tonight.

~Rebeccak

stipick_S
07-07-2005, 12:23 AM
Great points rebecca and hats off to wyatt for providing us with some really thought provoking questions. Where would we be as a society if someone did not rasise the questions that most are afraid to ask. It takes guts to question a masters work, especialy when the fans of this forum swear by them. valid points on both sides.

I would recomend a quick look at Raphael's works, his drawings in particular. When dealing within the fields of aesthetics he would be a great example of how one can change, and aesthetics is indeed a combination of technical ability and inner expression. During his early years Raphael studied under Perugino, this is important because Perugino's aesthetic was to compartmentalize the figure and treat each piece of the painting as an enclosed form, which was ideal for the time. However, during this time, two great masters were at work, Leonardo and Michelangelo! When Raphael was exposed to the techniques of the two masters he quickly changed his sense of aesthetic to match and emulate these new movers and shakers. He moved from the ideal stiff classical closed forms to more natural, open, expressive, yet anatomically correct figures. If you compare his drawings, begining with his early works and continue through to his late creations one can see the conscious decisions he made while drawing, his carefull observation as well as his personal decisions as to what an ideal aesthtic should be (for him).

The only reason I bring this up as it clearly demonstrates in pictoral form some of the points that Rebecca had made in her previous post. What is the ideal aesthetic? Clearly that depends on who is asking the question, there is no one or right answer and that answer can change at any time.

Shaun

Rebeccak
07-07-2005, 12:39 AM
stipick_S,

That's a really great post, kudos to you! I would have to say I was never really a fan of Raphael's drawings, and now you've given me a more clear idea of why. To me, his forms were always too rigid, and, as you say, closed off, and for this reason never appealed to me. I have a book of his drawings, and occasionally, I'll think "Raphael"! ~ and I'll look at his drawings and then put the book down, disappointed.

I have a personal preference for the loose, flowing, yet not overexuberant style of Michelangelo, and to a lesser degree, Rubens. But there are plenty who would prefer artists like Durer, whose style was not fluid at all.

I recommend that people study the work of Michelangelo and Rubens not so that they end up drawing LIKE them, but so that they have a clear understanding of core principles of drawing: line, opposing curves, exquisite shading, composition, weight...the list goes on.

These artists make things so CLEAR, and that makes studying their work ideal.

It is not the style which I wish people to emulate, but their principles which I wish them to understand.

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
07-07-2005, 12:39 AM
stipick_S,

That's a really great post, kudos to you! I would have to say I was never really a fan of Raphael's drawings, and now you've given me a more clear idea of why. To me, his forms were always too rigid, and, as you say, closed off, and for this reason never appealed to me. I have a book of his drawings, and occasionally, I'll think "Raphael"! ~ and I'll look at his drawings and then put the book down, disappointed.

I have a personal preference for the loose, flowing, yet not overexuberant style of Michelangelo, and to a lesser degree, Rubens. But there are plenty who would prefer artists like Durer, whose style was not fluid at all.

I recommend that people study the work of Michelangelo and Rubens not so that they end up drawing LIKE them, but so that they have a clear understanding of core principles of drawing: line, opposing curves, exquisite shading, composition, weight...the list goes on.

These artists make things so CLEAR, and that makes studying their work ideal.

It is not the style which I wish people to emulate, but their principles which I wish them to understand.

~Rebeccak

RO
07-07-2005, 01:33 AM
Double post... Warning for rebeccak :eek:

;)

Nailati
07-07-2005, 01:37 AM
I've been following these anatomy lessons with fascination (thanks, Rebecca!) and finally have time to participate. The opposing curves concept is a real revelation for me. This took me longer than it should have--I'm trying to overcome a lifelong habit of making timid, sketchy lines, and making confident strokes is extremely challenging for me. Any critiques/draw-overs appreciated.

The sketch on top of the two gestural drawings I did first, and by itself:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/Nailati/anatomy002.jpg

My reference:

http://delivery.gettyimages.com/comp/jc6639-001.jpg?x=x&dasite=gettyimages&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=B4EA6C1AD1335A3F1CC45D17C59F5BC294D2604A015CF9DF

Thanks for looking!

MCGrund
07-07-2005, 01:51 AM
Spent several hours on this one. Suppose the head is too big, but else than that I am pretty satisfied.
http://www.mcgrund.de/cgtalk/nakedei2.jpg

seth1
07-07-2005, 02:33 AM
Desp#2/Rog: Really enjoyed youe sketch. Keep it up..
FromanylanD: Really enjoyed you michelangelos. Proportions are off a bit, and anatomy but other wise wicked work...
fabian84: Good work man. I like your curves...
Kitami: Looks good man! The arm pointing looks a bit big?
WyattHarris: Haha, funny stuff there..
NoirQ: Looks good! There a bit to light for me to see though.
Nailati: Heh, i like it! The pose seems to be somewhat off though and face a bit wonky...
twisted-ankle: I like your sense of form. Yes the head does look a little bit big, but body is wounderful...

I know the body to small etc... I was just playing around ill do a longer drawing now. These drawing took me around 20 minutes...
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/6518/curves35ed.jpg

thetrianglekid
07-07-2005, 02:36 AM
Having said that with respect to your image, I really like what you later wrote. There is a whole field of study called "Aesthetics", and I am no philosopher, but I do know that beauty exists in form which we respond to and that Michelangelo, in his preparatory drawings for the painting of the Sistine Chapel ceiling, was in tune with a certain level of beauty like no other artist on earth in history.

The pictures which you posted of bodybuilders hold no aesthetic appeal for me ~ true, they are "realistic" in that they exactly depict what can be seen by the eyes. But Drawing is about more than just depicting exactly what you can see ~ I believe that Drawing, at its best, involves one's emotions, intellect, and inner sense of aesthetics ~ if I didn't feel this way, then I would be forced to conclude that your average 80's airbrush artist who could paint a hyperrealistic portrait was a "superior" artist to Michelangelo ~ you may conclude this, no one can stop you ~ but this is, by my estimation, rather ridiculous. I believe that there is something in a "real" Drawing which you cannot pinpoint, but which you can understand as inherently "true" ~ this is a feeling, and not something that can be diagrammed or proved. And why should Art exist at all, if there is no need for Expression? Why not just put pictures of bodybuilders on our walls and have artists call it a day?



rebecca, what you're talking about sounds, coincidentally like socrates' (plato's) and later aristotle's idea of "forms" (though aristotle's ideas were much more complicated) in that there is a perfect "form" of each and every thing in existence, but no true tangible examples of them. for example, i may say the word "chair" and you would, in your mind, get an idea of what a chair is, what makes a chair, what the essence of a chair is--why a chair is different from a desk or a tree or a cow--, but if i was to ask you to put down in words, or in picture form, the ideal CHAIR it would be impossible to do so in one go, or a million for that matter.

when we look at a real chair, however, whether it be a folding one or a throne or an antique carved wooden one, we all recognize SOMETHING true about each one of them which makes them, essentially, chairs and not other objects. i think all figure and life drawings do this same recalling, whether purposely or not, recalling intimate tangible and intangible "truths" of the ideal human form. our minds respond to them, instantly knowing "wow, there's something about this that looks right." this is an experience beyond pure aesthetic enjoyment, IMO. the "exaggerated" works of michelangelo, leonardo, rubens, and the other great masters seem to do this at a higher frequency. they seem to be more in sync and operating upon the same wavelength as that ideal form of the human body, a form which we develop in our minds since birth from seeing and being humans. just my 2 cents.

stipick_S
07-07-2005, 02:43 AM
Nailati (member.php?u=50643) -love it.

RobertoOrtiz
07-07-2005, 03:34 AM
be gentle

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b216/robertoortiz1/cgtalk/david.jpg

HundredMonkeys
07-07-2005, 04:17 AM
Amazing thread -

Here's a sketch.

-Tim

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/HundredMonkeys/Figure1.gif

Somhairle
07-07-2005, 04:19 AM
Hi all, I updated my post (#50) with some new work. Hope you like it and I would gladly hear some comments (do they all look like digital or not ? which one is more 'natural media' looking ?)
Don't know about anyone else, I can't see any links there Xillion

Today I took my (rusty) pencil and did some roughs...I found it really easier to tone with it than with the tablet. I usually tone with the side of the pencil but while my graphire supports pen pressure it lacks tilting...does anyone have a tilting capable tablet ? Is it useful?
Anyway...I'd gladly hear suggestions on how to tone properly with the wacom+Photoshop CS2 (maybe a combination of brush parameters?)
Oh man I agree about using natural media compared to a graphics tablet.

In photoshop use a tapered looking brush with a dual brush texture to get a more natural looking brush. the best thing is to make your own. I've been playing with painter more these days - I prefer its more realistic rendering of "media".

@Rebecca:
I just bought some charcoal pencils and a x-acto knife. just tested it earlier - those charcoal pencils are ace! (Thanks for the tip Rebecca) Only ones I could get were 2 Derwent (english) pencils: light and dark...so far I love the dark one, very free flowing!

One crit: HIS left leg is a little funny. Want to SAVE this version, and give HIS left leg another shot? Just a suggestion
I think both legs are a bit wonky! :) I drew that at 4am (woman your changing my sleeping habits!) ....and was struggling a bit with the legs....I'll have at it again after I have a coffee!! (its 4:15am again! just woke up at 1am - I've been doing stupid jury duty these last days (Ireland)...so boring, anyone ever do it?)

- Somhairle

seth1
07-07-2005, 04:25 AM
Need to draw 50 more of her!!
http://img115.echo.cx/img115/3999/curves40qq.jpg

Somhairle
07-07-2005, 04:28 AM
@HundredMonkeys:
Hey I saw this earlier as I've been reading through the last 6 pages. its a very good dramatic piece and has a lot of feeling! kudos!

@Rebecca:
A link section to the great masters, inspirational artists, great modern artists (and I don't mean "modern" in an artsy-fartsy sense!)...people like craig mulins www.goodbrush.com - etc, excellent!

@Forum members:
what graphics tablets do you use? what dynamics do they have (if any!!)

I'm using a UC-Logic: "SuperPen", 5.50” x 4.00” Pressure Sensitivity: 512 (no dynamics!)
I've had it for the past five years and has worked without a hitch so far. but I need to upgrade (esp. size).

- Somhairle

mbalestrini
07-07-2005, 04:55 AM
Rebecca: Thanks again for a this great lessons!!

HundredMonkeys: I really like the shading and mood of your sketch!

Ok... here's my best attempt so far. I couldn't resist shading it :)

http://www.bytetank.com/image_hosting/Curves_001.jpg



Maximo Balestrini

Nailati
07-07-2005, 04:55 AM
@Forum members:
what graphics tablets do you use? what dynamics do they have (if any!!)

I recently upgraded to a Wacom Intuos3 (http://www.wacom.com/productinfo/intuos.cfm) from a Wacom Graphire2. The Intuos is kick-ass (and comes in various sizes.) My favorite feature is the customizable buttons on each side--I've programmed them for things like undoing and changing brush opacity and size, so I basically never have to use the keyboard when I'm painting. It's also tilt-sensitive. Highly recommended if you're looking to upgrade and can afford it.

RO
07-07-2005, 05:59 AM
Desp#2/Rog: Really enjoyed youe sketch. Keep it up..

Thanks :)

I am trying to at least put one a day here.

Edit:

I have found out that you can get some pretty convincing pencil charcoal marks and brush strokes using PS and Wacom tablet. Though it takes messing around with making your own brushes. I just got it like a year ago… really only started using it when I got out of school a few months ago for the summer break. Sure it took me a while to learn and have the feel but not even the smooth surface feels odd to me anymore. I actually find it way more accurate than a pencil and paper at times. Really the tablet invention for graphic arts is amazing. It is not a replacement but a tool. All techniques I have been taught traditionally can be done on wacom tablet. It takes time to get use to though and well I am still getting use to it but I love it.

Rebeccak
07-07-2005, 06:08 AM
Wow, a little time away, and there are some GREAT posts here! Thanks to all for posting!

Nailati,

Nice! I actually like the Gesture Drawing more than the "finished" piece ~ very nice, both!

twisted-ankle,

The head and upper portion of the body are nice ~ we'll work on the legs and ankles a bit :)

seth1,

The tilt of the face is quite nice...one thing I would suggest for your and others' drawings which employ the use of Opposing Curves is to simultaneously employ / use the other concepts, such as the "peanut" shape for the torso, in these drawings ~ I would also be very careful about axes ~ for example, in the Michelangelo drawing (an exceedingly difficult thing to copy, Kudos to you for doing so!) the shoulder axes are really important, along with the axis of the head and spine.

This is something I've been meaning to write about, and does not apply only to you, but to everyone ~ Opposing Curves drawings are not exclusive of other methods ~ one may do a Gesture or Lay-In Drawing ~ and in fact is encouraged to do so ~ before going back over that initial drawing with Opposing Curves.

Having said that, drawings using Opposing Curves need not be a perfect description of anatomy ~ but can rather describe, as do Gesture Drawings, the MOST IMPORTANT LINES to describe the pose ~ ie the biggest lines, not the minutae of every bump in the body.

thetrianglekid,

Great thoughts! Maybe there should be a thread which discusses a bit about Aesthetics.

stipick_S,

Thanks for showing support :)

RobertoOrtiz,

Good effort RO! My recommendation for you, Mr. Ortiz, would be to post a drawing done with traditional media. I would also suggest that for a piece done with a digital brush to narrow the width of the brush to allow you to get details. Add the gesture first, and then the overlying Opposing Curves. Thanks for posting Roberto! :)

HundredMonkeys,

I really like this sketch a lot, but didn't you post this earlier as an attachment? :)

Somhairle,

Whoops, I'm sorry for changing your sleep habits! Although, in a way, I guess that's really a funny kind of compliment! And thanks for the topic suggestions!

The thing about sleep and time difference is something to consider, however...do people think that this go-round needs a few extra days? There have been so many wonderful submissions that I neither want to short-change peoples' reviews nor prematurely close what seems to be a hot topic.
People should let me know their thoughts :)

seth1,

Wow, I can see a great improvement! Keep working!

mbalestrini,

Nice posts, I think the torso on the left is quite nice. I don't mind the shading because you've focused on the Opposing Curves drawing first ~ so the shading is a nice secondary touch, though I'd want to discourage others from JUST shading to achieve form at this point.

One thing to note, which is something I wanted to point out to everyone, is that the torso in your drawing on the left, done without shading and interior linework, works BETTER than the more detailed drawing on the right. This goes to show that the MAIN, EXTERIOR lines are the MOST IMPORTANT lines to establish, and that interior forms, which we tend to focus on, are SECONDARY in importance.

There are several drawings in this thread, which, were I to REMOVE the interior detail, would be greatly improved.

Food for thought :)

Nailati,

Hmm, looks like we'll need a Wacom thread too :)

Wow, guys! Thanks for contributing to this thread by critiquing others and sharing info! This is great! ~ :)

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
07-07-2005, 06:23 AM
FireMoon,

Please post your beautiful drawing on THIS thread ~ thank you!

~Rebeccak

Somhairle
07-07-2005, 06:39 AM
Whoops, I'm sorry for changing your sleep habits!
for sure that was a complimet! :)

The thing about sleep and time difference is something to consider, however...do people think that this go-round needs a few extra days? There have been so many wonderful submissions that I neither want to short-change peoples' reviews nor prematurely close what seems to be a hot topic.People should let me know their thoughts
I'm personally very busy looking for work this week esp.! Haven't really had time to draw much, and I'm working on other modelling/texturing stuff in maya.

The Michelangelo reference you posted before was great! any more really inspiring links Reb?

The work here is looking great! congratulations everyone!

- Somhairle

Rebeccak
07-07-2005, 07:15 AM
Ok, Seth1, I appreciate all of your posts! Here is my review of one of them :)

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop_II_OPPOSING%20CURVES/REVIEWED_SET_seth1_OC_post1.jpg

I think you are making a tremendous effort, but need to focus on SIMPLIFYING your forms. The drawing principle of OPPOSING CURVES does not exclude using other METHODS we have looked at such as GESTURE DRAWING and using the PEANUT SHAPE to indicate the basic shape of the torso. Additionally, I would use loose GESTURAL lines to indicate limbs before indicating them more completely with OPPOSING CURVES.

I should have talked about that before, but we're all learning :) ~ I think you are doing a great job, continue to revise even your own work, and post things so we can see your progress.

Hope this helps, and thanks for your posts! :)

~Rebeccak

Nailati
07-07-2005, 07:46 AM
Inspiring stuff!

A couple more before I go to bed...I never draw men, so I'm trying to branch out.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/Nailati/anatomy002-2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/Nailati/anatomy002-3.jpg

References:

http://delivery.gettyimages.com/comp/200069982-001.jpg?x=x&dasite=gettyimages&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=990CBF436093CF58B3C57DB7A7DDB84784326045A685380E
http://delivery.gettyimages.com/comp/3008-002860.jpg?x=x&dasite=gettyimages&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=5829FD3C2F0B219888C83AC548D60355AC9EDBE4E6F952F6

HundredMonkeys
07-07-2005, 07:55 AM
Eeeps. My bad on the double post - sorry about that, still a forum posting noob.

Thanks for putting all the effort into this thread, very inspiring.

Here's another image - more in line with overlapping curve idea than a tonal piece.

Thanks much,
-Tim

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/HundredMonkeys/Fig02_curves.jpg

Rebeccak
07-07-2005, 07:56 AM
Somhairle,

Best of luck in your job hunt! :) We're all rooting for you!

Nailati,

Beautiful work. I like these even better than your first set of drawings. Greatly looking forward to more great posts! :)

EDIT:
HundredMonkeys,

Woo! Nice...I really like the atmospheric quality to your work...the anatomy's not perfect, but with this style, I'm not sure I care as much...but hmm, let me think...

~Rebeccak

scorpion007
07-07-2005, 07:57 AM
I'm using a crappy Genius WizardPen 5x4, it has 1024 pressure levels though, so that bit is ok, but doesnt have any more dynamics like tilt etc. Also 5x4 is pretty damn small. I hope to get 1 up on that, perhaps a wacom when I can afford it :)

I'll try to get some more drawings done...

EDIT:
Dammit, everytime a refresh this thread there's more posts! lol! Really nice stuff Nailati and HundredMonkeys! :D

MCGrund
07-07-2005, 08:15 AM
twisted-ankle,

The head and upper portion of the body are nice ~ we'll work on the legs and ankles a bit :)

Rebeccak

Yeah, I definitely had some problems with the leg proportions, especially with the ankle/feet areas.
It would be nice, if you could point out what should be different.

franzboas
07-07-2005, 08:46 AM
file:///C:/WINDOWS/Desktop/hsreyash.jpg

hi
i wrote the mail yeserday than i went home and made this.its from a photo i got off the net. please dont report me. its made with a 4b lead.
ma'm i cant get that 3-d effect ,the depth of muscle folds like how michealangello has in the drwing posted. please may i know how does one get that.
file://Comp4/d/shreyash/shreyash.jpg
this is a sketch of my hand ( the one thats left..!) plenty of opposing curves here at the fingers the palm and the bulb of the thumb.

please may i also now why are live models preferred over photographs? i hope these are even worth critique-ing. please be brutal
shreyas

well obviouslt there s a problem. the files are too big to attach. i tried pasting them in the text that onle made links. pleaaaaaase some body help me. how do i post the pictures? and i feel like a real fool.

franzboas
07-07-2005, 09:02 AM
file://Comp4/d/shreyash/hsreyash.jpg ok this is what is missing in the previous

Xillion
07-07-2005, 09:04 AM
Don't know about anyone else, I can't see any links there Xillion



mmm...
the image should be here:
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/5135/ar00212oc.jpg
let me know if it works (maybe it's just slow to download... cause it's quite big)...

hundredMonkeys: both works you posted are cool! I really like the strength of the first one. Keep posting!

FranzBoas: you should probably get some free space on the web (on photobucket or imageshack) and upload your works there. We can't see your works if they reside on your computer!

franzboas
07-07-2005, 09:16 AM
well actually its not my comp, i dont have a net connection at home.
but the problem still remains. sorry ,will try to rectify asap, and please tell me how does one post a pic in the reply? much appreciate the help.
shreyas

to err is human
to balme the computer is divine irresponsiblity

ok this is a test. i hope it works

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/2129/shreyash9dx.th.jpg (http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shreyash9dx.jpg)

HUZAH it worked. now am i allowed to post fine art nudes on image shack then i ll just post the second one . thanks xillion you have truly shown me technological enlightment

seth1
07-07-2005, 09:24 AM
rebecca: Wow, I will really look at this tomorw and study it but it is really late.. I appricate it sooo much thanks...
Nailati: Good stuff hear. Cant wait to see more...

Quick drawing from the master.. really messed up. I will start to simplify every thing tomorow..
http://img248.echo.cx/img248/3450/curves4sooobad0kc.jpg

Rebeccak
07-07-2005, 11:54 AM
FromanylanD, didn't get a chance to post this last night, but here is my review of one of the first drawings which you posted :)

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop_II_OPPOSING%20CURVES/REVIEWED_SET_FromanylanD_OC.jpg

I think you've done a pretty fantastic job of creating form through a build~up of well~placed lines, however, I believe if you simply EMPHASIZED the major Opposing Curves MORE, your figure drawing would have that much more impact. Now, I realize that in the process of emphasizing your existing curves I have more or less turned the man into a woman :) but it's all to prove the point of EXAGGERATION and EMPHASIS on Opposite Sides of the Body in a rhythmical sweep of the pencil/pen.

EDIT:
Also, try to move the pencil/pen SMOOTHLY down each side of the form in THE SAME DIRECTION ~ try not to create erratic, sketchy marks, but instead, concentrate on making each mark count. This, too, will improve the impact and quality of the drawing.

I think that your posts are really coming along nicely, and I look forward to more of them! :)

~Rebeccak

NOOB!
07-07-2005, 12:08 PM
*sniff* my birthday is ruined thanks to terrorist bombers in london today,so i can't draw nothin today ....

cos i'm scared...aaahh! i live in london.hyelp!! rebecca!!!

FromanylanD
07-07-2005, 12:27 PM
Thanks for the review, Rebecca! :) The charcoal's slowing me down (and I still don't have any proper pencils...), but I think it'll be worth it.

In the news, a recently discovered Michelangelo drawing...

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a157/FromanylanD/untitled.jpg

:rolleyes:

I promise the next one will be on topic!

NOOB!: yeah, I heard...happy birthday :hmm:.

Somhairle
07-07-2005, 12:36 PM
Hi guys!

I've updated my original drawing 104 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2439620&postcount=104) (from Bernini Gian Lorenzo's - "David"):

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/dreoilin/samblake_David_03.jpg

This is my first charcoal (pencil) drawing in...erm....years! (from Michelangelo's - "The Creation of Adam"):

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/dreoilin/samuelblake_adam01.jpg

reference: http://www.wga.hu/art/m/michelan/3sistina/1genesis/6adam/06_3ce6b.jpg

@HundredMonkeys:
Love your drawings!

Rebeccak
07-07-2005, 12:59 PM
Hello everyone,

I would like to express deepest sympathy for those in our community who were affected by the London blasts this morning. Communities like these make me realize how closely and interconnected we all are, and so London's concerns are also our concerns and vice-versa.

I sincerely hope that no one here was affected, but of course, others were, and to them our hearts go out.

Thanks,

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
07-07-2005, 01:02 PM
FromanylanD,

You're welcome! ...Wow ;) I didn't know Michelangelo drew with such vivid colors! Great work, keep it coming!

Somhairle,

Wow :applause: ~ Beautiful stuff. I am moved that you produced such a beautiful drawing for this thread! Absolutely go in that direction! Great, great stuff.

Thanks guys for your posts!

~Rebeccak

Somhairle
07-07-2005, 01:17 PM
Hi guys,

I'm applying the curves rules to some of my new 3d models. for those that say, "life drawing isn't neccessary" - maybe not - but it sure is making the "I don't know whats wrong (or right!) with the shape of the model, but theres something about it" more informative. curves are king!

Rebecca, I forgot how messy "Real" drawing was by the way...you should see my keyboard! hhahaha lol...but yes, I definately prefer the charcoal pencil to those old "twigs!".

@noob:
yep, the bombing in london sucks! most of my family live there and some good friends as well as in madrid, the bombing in 2003 really sucked too!

- Somhairle

franzboas
07-07-2005, 01:50 PM
hi
ok i think i worked the chinks out. so i am finally posting both the sketches i made again.
please let me know what you think. and rebecka , i am soryy for all the goofups that occured before this,
yours appolegitacally:
shreyas

http://img49.echo.cx/img49/9025/hsreyash6aw.th.jpg (http://img49.echo.cx/my.php?image=hsreyash6aw.jpg)

http://img299.echo.cx/img299/2129/shreyash9dx.th.jpg (http://img299.echo.cx/my.php?image=shreyash9dx.jpg)

Rebeccak
07-07-2005, 02:18 PM
NOOB wrote:

>*sniff* my birthday is ruined thanks to terrorist bombers in london today,so i can't draw nothin today ....

cos i'm scared...aaahh! i live in london.hyelp!! rebecca!!!

NOOB, I'm so sorry, I didn't see your post this morning, so I apologize for that ~ I didn't think about the fact that you were a Londoner, so it's great to hear that you are ok! Was anyone that you know affected? It's such a shame that things like this have to happen, and my sympathies are with anyone who was affected by the bombings. In fact, I am concerned for those who use subway systems and public transportation, as those seem to be targets for terrorism.

I have to say also that my sympathies are with innocent families who are targeted as suspects. Despite many flaws, I was impressed with how many in the US did not immediately blame or single out families who were suddenly made "visible" in their homes and communities. I would caution anyone not to jump to conclusions about friends and neighbors, as this is a reaction that can only bring useless and unnecessary harm to all involved.

But NOOB, it's good to hear from you, and I'm sorry such a hideous thing had to happen on your birthday. I've heard that the atmosphere yesterday was electric due to the Olympic announcement (congratulations!) but the atmosphere today has, of course, been completely changed. So once again, our sympathies.

EDIT:
Somhairle wrote:

>yep, the bombing in london sucks! most of my family live there and some good friends as well...

Sorry to hear that, Somhairle...I hope that no one you know was affected. Sad times, these!

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
07-07-2005, 02:59 PM
twisted-ankle,

no problem ~ I typically have more time on the weekends to do real reviews, ie, draw-overs :)
I will definitely make the effort to get to as many folks as I can :)

franzboas,

no worries about the technical glitches, prior to these lesson threads, I had never posted anything on the Web ;)

Xillion,

thanks for the update, looking good!

seth1,

you are most welcome!

Somhairle,

curves do indeed rule! They simplify EVERYTHING.
_

Thanks guys for your posts! I should have some more reviews up sometime today / tonight.

~Rebeccak

FromanylanD
07-07-2005, 03:18 PM
http://www.animation-fromanyland.com/imgshow/torsoCurves04.jpg

http://www.marbleclassics.com/images-extra-large/01013.jpg

http://www.animation-fromanyland.com/imgshow/torsoRefEdit.jpg

Rebeccak
07-07-2005, 03:24 PM
FromanylanD,

Ok, getting there...WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR GETTING CHARCOAL PENCILS??? ;)

I like the circular motion you've set up in the torso...that is the correct idea, absolutely. However, almost all of your linework is EVEN ~ what you can achieve with a CHARCOAL PENCIL is variety in your strokes and linework that will lend itself to much greater expression.

Having said that, I can appreciate that you're new to charcoal, so I'm just giving you a hard time. :)

Whence the sculpture?

~Rebeccak

FromanylanD
07-07-2005, 03:27 PM
twisted-ankle,

no problem ~ I typically have more time on the weekends to do real reviews, ie, draw-overs :)
I will definitely make the effort to get to as many folks as I can :)

Personally, I'd much rather you not worry about getting to as many people as possible, and instead focus on making the reviews more in-depth or at least keeping them at the current level. I think everyone would learn more that way. Please don't compromise the quality of the reviews in an attempt to get to everybody (which I think happened towards the end of the first lesson).

Rebeccak
07-07-2005, 03:29 PM
FromanylanD wrote,

>Personally, I'd much rather you not worry about getting to as many people as possible, and instead focus on making the reviews more in-depth or at least keep them at the current level. I think everyone would learn more that way. Please just don't compromise the quality of the reviews in an attempt to get to everybody (which I think happened towards the end of the first lesson).

Point taken ;)

Ah...balance. Still trying to find it! :)

~Rebeccak

tzktime
07-07-2005, 03:31 PM
ok heres my practice drawing for michelangelo's david, . 3 tries, second try was getting sloppy. tightened in the 3rd try. Sorry to hear about the london blast. I hope everyone is alright. My hands really strained trying to keep my lines count ( my drawing style is very sketchy, hope I can improve my line quality!) Critic away!
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/2247/david12ar.jpg

FromanylanD
07-07-2005, 03:37 PM
FromanylanD,

Ok, getting there...WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR GETTING CHARCOAL PENCILS??? ;)

I like the circular motion you've set up in the torso...that is the correct idea, absolutely. However, almost all of your linework is EVEN ~ what you can achieve with a CHARCOAL PENCIL is variety in your strokes and linework that will lend itself to much greater expression.

Having said that, I can appreciate that you're new to charcoal, so I'm just giving you a hard time. :)

Whence the sculpture?

~Rebeccak

Google Image, again... http://www.marbleclassics.com/XL-01013.htm

Circular motion I set up? More like, was made aware of :D. If A.C. Moore was open 10 minutes longer I'd have some pencils...

Rebeccak
07-07-2005, 03:39 PM
tzktime,

Glad to see your post!

I think you definitely went in the right direction by lenghtening your forms in the third picture. It think your series clearly demonstrates 2 things:

1. Practice and repetition is key to improvement - I've copied the same master drawings over and over for years, and still have things to learn from those same drawings.
2. Drawing is as much about SEEING as it is about making marks.

The upper portion of the 3rd FIGURE'S left leg is particularly nice ~ loose, but accurately descriptive, and clean.

I think also as one becomes accustomed to the Wacom pen, it becomes a joy to create these clean lines, even if you have to Ctrl Z several times to get them right.

Thanks for posting!

~Rebeccak

AndyDay
07-07-2005, 03:49 PM
Hi Rebecca,

I was too busy to participate last week, but this week I managed to find some time. Thanks for doing this, it's a HUGE help to me and lots of others I'm sure. I've been going to figure drawing classes on and off for the past few months, but I've got no real training, so threads like this are like Gold.



Here's a pic from me:

Rebeccak
07-07-2005, 04:03 PM
AndyDay wrote:

>I was too busy to participate last week, but this week I managed to find some time.

Awesome, glad you can participate! Once the new sub-forum gets up for "Artistic Anatomy and Figurative Drawing", there won't be the same time constraints.

Thanks for posting your work!

~Rebeccak

RO
07-07-2005, 04:08 PM
Hello everyone,

I would like to express deepest sympathy for those in our community who were affected by the London blasts this morning. Communities like these make me realize how closely and interconnected we all are, and so London's concerns are also our concerns and vice-versa.

I sincerely hope that no one here was affected, but of course, others were, and to them our hearts go out.

Thanks,

~Rebeccak

Same :|

I saw the news here first , and went to see on a news channel :| Very sad to see this.

tzktime
07-07-2005, 04:17 PM
hi rebecca, you reply fast, thx :) do you have some sort of alerts system? anyways i went n tried for a 4th time and since i didnt get to participate in the first lesson, i did some review. ps: my drawing is still loose. will be doing many gesture drawing first before moving on to curves. thanks again for the quick reply. :wip:

Edit: forgot to include image:
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/3545/david27gu.jpg

Rebeccak
07-07-2005, 04:23 PM
My alert system is called "ADD" ~ Attention Deficit Disorder ;)

Just kidding, I don't actually have ADD, but wish I did, as some of my smartest friends "suffer" from it ~

Thanks for the update. I'm going to have to be offline for a while now and actually do work :rolleyes:

~Rebeccak

Mirwen
07-07-2005, 04:34 PM
Ok here is mine:
http://www.m72.wz.cz/anatomie/a001.jpg

Everybody:please feel free to do some critique on this piece.
link:http://figuredrawings.com/1116JOHN%20EVERARD7.jpg (http://figuredrawings.com/1116JOHN%20EVERARD7.jpg)

WyattHarris
07-07-2005, 05:03 PM
FYI, if you do an image search on google using any of the old masters names it turns up quite a few hundred thousand images. Raphael (http://images.google.com/images?q=raphael&hl=en) Michelangelo (http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&q=michelangelo) De Vinci (http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=de+vinci)

If you don't mind continuing the previous discussion. Out of these 3 fellows I think I favor Raphael the most, works such as altoviti (http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/raphael/altoviti.jpg). But its not to do with the form I think. It's the color. He captured such beautiful lighting and vibrant colors that I think I'm drawn more to his work. Having said that, these 3 are each still so unbelievably good that I could view their works for hours. I would love to see the Sistine Chapel for real one day. I think my neck would be permanetly stuck from looking at the ceiling all day. :D

Lets forget the bodybuilder physique because I don't really favor that look. Speaking as a guy (which probably sways this a bit) I find the natural female form to be infinately more beautiful than any art I've seen. Again, this has alot to do with the color and soft shadow and tone gradations. The soft curves and rounded edges (not the harder edge of muscle) looks much better to me. That's my opinion and preference.

Having said that my next attempt will be more "like Mike" which is going to be a chore for me. But I must learn something new everyday.

stipick_S
07-07-2005, 05:04 PM
I agree with rebecca, I send regards to all those involved in the recent occurences london. I sincerely hope everyone is fine and that you have been greeted with good fortune (in respect to the situation).


This thread is getting insane, so many good drawings and the involvement of the communtiy is outstanding. I want to say something about so many individuals work, but I think this post would be humongus in size. More and more people are participating and everyone has made impressive progress. Rebecca and Ortiz have done an outstanding job with the creation of this thread and I feel privleged to be able to particpate with everyonne.

It is as if CGTalk is the choclate factory and I have just found that last golden ticket...too good to be true. Thanks to everybody for making this so enjoyable.

Edit- Wyatt check out Tiepolo ( i love his work, if you can not tell)...his drawings are sublime.

Rebeccak
07-07-2005, 05:10 PM
Ah, I definitely want to reply to WyattHarris' post more in-depth later...the Raphael image which you posted is a painting, and as such, delves into a whole different set of properties which go beyond drawing. The old saying that Drawing is Painting is absolutely true...in my opinion, some of the Masters could have "spilled coffee" on their drawings and called it a day, having completed their "paintings".

Which brings up an EXCELLENT point. I would also like to have on the Artistic Anatomy and Figurative Drawing sub-forum a thread dedicated to figurative PAINTING. So that all of the questions and issues related to that vast subject may be addressed. Perhaps I should just call the sub-forum: "Artistic Anatomy and Figurative ART". In fact, I think I will.

I think that these two subjects, working together in the same forum, will provide an amazing feeding ground for all of the excellent artists who have participated in this thread, and who will hopefully be participating in the sub-forum as well.

Thanks all for your support, and special thanks to Roberto Ortiz for helping to make all of this possible.

~Rebeccak

EDIT: also, with respect to WyattHarris' comment about SHADING, that indeed is one of the upcoming lesson topics, so stay tuned...but stay on the current topic, too ;)

Thanks ~

stipick_S
07-07-2005, 05:11 PM
excellent I have have not painted in years... It might be time to crack open that dusty case of oils. Fun fun fun!

Rebeccak
07-07-2005, 05:41 PM
Mirwen,

Just saw your post! :) Glad to see you back...ok time to work on some reviews.

~Rebeccak

Mirwen
07-07-2005, 05:50 PM
At the post above I wanted just to post my work (Ok, it is not bad [but also not so good:)] . When I said that I am shy to post, because of quality of posted work of everybody - It had to be a just a compliment):).

And know I would like to react on several posts I read. You will hate me for this:twisted:. Attention: I am about to write this all with respect to everybody and everything

Michalangelo Buonarroti:
http://www.gs.bergen.hl.no/%7Egimle/Oppgaven/David.jpg
Many people in this thread drew this statue of David. And I would like to say: PLEASE, STOP DRAWING THIS STATUE!!! Why? Simple question. Look at this... Thi statue has several disproportions, like long neck, too big right hand and so on. So did Mike do a bad job? No! This statue and all the things around are purpose! Mike was a Genius with big G. But this statue he did from a piece of marble that was defective aaaand this statue was ment to be on higher place. So people would look on the statue from down and see all things on statue from different point of view. Mike counted with this and created the statue with some calculated disproportions. This is why I say that he was a genius.

It is all what I wanted to say about David. Next- what is perfect? I mean who decide what is or what is not perfect or beautiful? Let me say something: :scream:!EVERYTHING IS ART!:scream: But if you learn some school you MUST follow the way of the school (or you will be kicked out). So if we should learn from masters such as Michalangelo, Rubens, Botticelli, Durer, Leonardo, an so on. Than we should do so. Rebecca is quite tolerant but I think that everybody may see where is her brakepoint and shouldn't try to challange her.

More about Michalangelo:He was homosexual (No, I have nothing against them) and it is the purpose, why he did only men. Why he was so interested in muscles and why he never created a woman (every single Mike's woman is a man:)). This is why he created something that looks soo real and doesn't really exist. But hell who cares? He really knew the muscles and it is very good to learn from his works. Look at this one (detail from The Last Judgement)
http://www.artstamps.dk/images/Michelangelo-Last-Judgement-manierism.jpg
Do you really think that somebody can have such a body? I don't think so. (Whooo! But look at those muscles! cool!). That's all I wanted to say about Mike. Please, feel free to stone me:thumbsup:

stipick_S: Thank you very much for your beautiful kind comments to me and to the others.

Somhairle:I am using A6 Wacom Intuos 2 with 512 (youknowwhat) It is small, I know, but it was cheap:) (only 100 euros)

Rebecca:In new forum - As Noob said the face would be nice. I mean basic proportions and then. Expressions of face, differences between euro, asia and negro faces (did I say it correctly? It sounds to me like racism. And I am not resistic person). And nice would be also figure in action (swiming, walking, fighting,...) - gestures and but also details.

To everyone: I am really stuned to see how many people in their 30 years have no purpose why to live and create. Hey guys, don't you have any dreams ?!? How about searching the Meaning of Life?

As I said once before, I am only 19 years old and still discovering and exploring new facinating things. What did I discover?

- I am seeking my dream!
1. Everything is art
2. Tolerance and power ( I tolerate everything until the barrier of tolerance is broken - than I'll use power)
3. I am seeking the middle point (not the gray one)

Rebeccak
07-07-2005, 05:57 PM
Mirwen,

This is great stuff! I can't stop chuckling to myself :)

~Rebeccak

Zephyri
07-07-2005, 05:57 PM
Well, I looked at my work a couple of days later and decided I'd completely missed the boat. So I read right through this whole thread again, and the topic is slowly starting to make more sense to me now. I've taken your advice Rebecca and gone back to the masters to copy some of their drawings, which are at the top of the page below, and then tried to apply what I'd learned without the original reference to a straight off the top of the head drawing. It's come to my attention, looking through some of the gorgeous artwork on here, that my drawing style is very clinical, and I need to loosen up more, but I have a morbid fear of charcoal and pastel instilled in me from school.

You know, I've realised my art schooling didn't actually teach me anything about the fundamentals of art, which is really sad, because my art teacher was such a great guy, he just couldn't spend the time needed on drawing, and had to pander to the curriculum, which involved sticking tissue paper on everything and desaturating it with bleach. I've learned everything I know now mostly from looking at other's art and reading books, so this thread is really a godsend. If anyone should ever fancy doing a colour theory teaching thread along the same lines, that would be just amazing. But I'm learning with every new stroke I make here, so this is most, most wonderful. Anyone fancy pulling these apart, please be my guest.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/xephyri/cgtalk%20images/anatomy2.jpg

Mirwen
07-07-2005, 06:01 PM
Thank's Rebecca:) and let me say... even if you can't see me, I am always here somewhere biting through theese english texts (would you trust me, if I say that it is more simple for me to read something in czech or slovak language?:))
Eh- I just found what mistake did I do on my new post:banghead: (misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=0#). I am going to do a better one.

Nevillle Chamberlain
07-07-2005, 06:08 PM
Hello Miss. Kimmel,

Could you please critique my work.
Feel free to be as honest and tactless as you can be.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v706/TroutMask/LifeDrawn-Chris2.jpg


Thank you,

sWyche

Rebeccak
07-07-2005, 06:17 PM
Zepyhri wrote,

>(My very good art teacher) had to pander to the curriculum, which involved sticking tissue paper on everything and desaturating it with bleach.

Hahahaha! I really hated some of the art training I had as a kid...I recall being 8 and in the East (Modern) Wing of the National Art Gallery, and thinking, Jesus, I could do this! Well, my original sensibilities and opinions regarding Modern Art have now been successfully educated out of me ~ read: brainwashed ;) ~ but I fully understand the frustration with so-called art-training that so-called art schools provide these days ~ and that's part of the reason I'm so enthused about this thread cum forum, as I'm rather tired of young artists getting taken for a ride, milked for all their parents' money, and ending up with very little practical training in the end. In my opinion, Modernism devastated traditional art training (at least in the US, where it didn't have the strongest foundation in the first place), and for that, I really want to express my most sincere gratitude <sarcasm dripping>!:D

That's my rant, and I'm sticking to it! ;)

>If anyone should ever fancy doing a colour theory teaching thread along the same lines, that would be just amazing.

Ah, I know just the perfect person...I will contact him about running a Colour Theory thread. This is something I had considered doing...but my former professor is EXCELLENT and his knowledge goes far beyond mine...

~And oh, yes, your drawings look GREAT. KEEP GOING!!! :)

~Rebeccak

WyattHarris
07-07-2005, 06:24 PM
in my opinion, some of the Masters could have "spilled coffee" on their drawings and called it a day, having completed their "paintings".

I almost blasted coke out my nose when I read this. :scream: Good stuff.

EDIT: also, with respect to WyattHarris' comment about SHADING, that indeed is one of the upcoming lesson topics, so stay tuned...but stay on the current topic, too

Excellent, definately need to change my tool set for that.

Painting sounds great, there's an area I can really learn as my education is lacking in it.


stipick_S: Checked out Tiepolo, I really like this one (http://www.fotos.org/galeria/data/531/3la-muerte-de-jacinto-tiepolo-museo-thyssen-madrid.jpg). His rendering of light and shadow are outstanding.

WyattHarris
07-07-2005, 06:29 PM
read: brainwashed ~ but I fully understand the frustration with so-called art-training that so-called art schools provide these days

I'm so glad to hear you say that. Can I say that these threads will be more education than most will receive in their "formal" training. It's so focused and to the point. This is probably the fourth time now but thanks for doing this Rebakka. You are really helping many people.

Rebeccak
07-07-2005, 06:29 PM
WyattHarris,

When you blast coke out of your nose, just make sure it hits your DRAWING ~ that way, you can call it a day, and have a finished PAINTING :scream:

;)

~Rebeccak

paperclip
07-07-2005, 08:03 PM
Rebecca!
This thread and indeed the previous one are amongst the most fun threads I've ever read at CGTalk and definitely the most educational. I'm having fun reading through all the posts and some stunning work here!
Congrats everyone....you are all doing fantastically!! Major kudos to you rebecca for doing this for us.... where in the US are you at the moment?


I'd be incredibly interested in learning about your art education and what you think of the direction art education is heading these days. Please post another rant!

Rebeccak
07-07-2005, 08:07 PM
paperclip!

I've been wondering where you were! Thanks a bunch for the comments, it's really nice to hear such positive feedback! Having said that...have you posted your work today? ;)

It is indeed great that so many people are on board for this ~ I am thrilled!!!

Can't wait to see who else decides to join up and post their fabulous drawings...and, when the sub-forum gets up, paintings! Woo! :)

I live / work near Washington, DC ~ though have considered off and on moving back to the West Coast ~ go figure, I must miss the smog! ;)

And I could rant for DAYS, yeah, you just don't want that ;).

~Rebeccak

paperclip
07-07-2005, 08:33 PM
And I could rant for DAYS, yeah, you just don't want that ;).

~Rebeccak

Yeah, i do want you to! I'm interested in hearing what you have to say about it. Would you like me to open up a new thread about it in the art discussion forum?!

As for my work...my scanner is kaputt at the moment and my work isn't as good as others here...sob...so I may have to sit this one out. When my scanner is resurrected though, believe me you'll be inundated!!

Rebeccak
07-07-2005, 08:53 PM
augustus,

Thank you for posting your work! Here is my review...:)

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop_II_OPPOSING%20CURVES/REVIEWED_SET_Augustus_OC_po.jpg

Overall I think you have a good feel for form and weight ~ and your rendering / shading is really quite nice and has a sensitive quality to it which should be commended. However, my recommendation would be to focus FIRST on the major flow lines of the figure and to FIRST draw in a more loose and gestural way so that when you go to render a final piece, you do not get stuck with proportions which are wrong, if only slightly.

The critique I made is not about your style but about your APPROACH ~ I would try to focus on the BIG PICTURE before rendering any details. I would always draw the head in, if only loosely as a gesture, as the head dictates the attitude of the rest of the body.

SIMPLIFY ~ and then focus on getting details right within this looser context.

Great work, and I look forward to more of your posts ! :)

~Rebeccak

Somhairle
07-07-2005, 09:38 PM
...Michalangelo:He was homosexual (No, I have nothing against them) and it is the purpose, why he did only men.

Mirwen, you don't know how funny that sentence is! I have a pain laughing! lol :)

thetrianglekid
07-07-2005, 09:38 PM
ok, after reading this entire thread, i've been following along since the first thread and drawing gestures, but i don't have a scanner. i decided to run to the library today and use theirs!

i give permission to anyone to say anything they want about my pics, these or otherwise (in later lessons). just keep in mind i've never taken an art class in my life (except one in high school i think) and i have no idea what i'm doing in terms of everything, tools, shading, etc.

i did these with a #2 i found some place. i know i was supposed to use references, but i had a hard time finding good ones, so i just drew gestures first then went from there.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/thetrianglekid/figure_punching_cgtalk.jpg

this is a boxer. i got a bit carried away with musculature in all of them, especially this one

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/thetrianglekid/figure_holdingweight_cgtalk.jpg

this is a guy holding something heavy, maybe some groceries or a really heavy purse haha

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/thetrianglekid/figure_pulling_cgtalk.jpg

this guy is being pulled away by the hands i think

thx in advance guys

bandersnatch
07-07-2005, 09:39 PM
i sure love a lot of these drawing showing up here. very inspiring. now that im hooked, this is all i do, at home, work, etc. feedback and suggestion on mine would greatly be appreciated.

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/3614/opposingcurves21sp.th.jpg (http://img66.imageshack.us/my.php?image=opposingcurves21sp.jpg)

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/6312/opposingcurves30bf.th.jpg (http://img66.imageshack.us/my.php?image=opposingcurves30bf.jpg)

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/4314/opposingcurves42ak.th.jpg (http://img66.imageshack.us/my.php?image=opposingcurves42ak.jpg)

Rebeccak
07-07-2005, 09:51 PM
thetrianglekid,

Wow, no training? Really? These are downright good considering that ~ and to go to the library to scan these, wow, that is dedication ~ how awesome! Thanks for posting these! :)

bandersnatch,

I am trying to get to these as I can...indeed there is much inspiring work here, and I want people to feel free to comment on others' work as well.

Thanks for posting, this is highly cool!

~Rebeccak