Jewelry in Rhino

[Jeet]

Dear larry...

i have seen the image... its really good....

i am also a jewelry designer... infact a student...

i am using rhino from last one month... its a very very nice programm and i love to work with...

i have just 2 hour before prepared a ring....

i would like to show you... as you are a teacher ... let me to know if i have made any mistake...

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/6206/beautyring48hs.th.jpg (http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beautyring48hs.jpg)

Sir... right now i am learning 2d pencil and water color rendering on paper plus 3d modeling and rendering with rhino...

i would like to know how we can prepare 2d rendering on computer..? which will be the best software for it??




best regards

jeet.

[Glyptic]

Hi, Jeet.
Very nice ring. You are doing very well for someone so new to Rhino. Keep up the good work.
As for 2D, I'm in the dark ages. I use CorelDraw, only because I started with it about 1989, and it did all I needed, so I stuck with it. Although I don't use it an hour a month these days. Rhino and Cinema 4D take up all my computer time.
There are any number of "illustration" programs you might find useful. Corel and Abode Illustrator among them. There are also quite a few "sketch & toon" packages that give a "sketched" look to your work.
A little bit of research on your part, maybe even through CG Talk would help you decide.
Figure out what you want to do with the software, then look for the package that delivers that.
You might think about using a digitizing table and pen for that kind of work. I find it much more comfortable and quicker than a mouse for a lot of work in 2D.
By the way, I do not teach jewelry. Glyptic art (gem engraving) and jewelry was a first multi-decade career, teaching is a second career. Teaching lets me make more of what I want.
And I use very few faceted stones in my work. Everything I do is inspired by historical reference (architcture, fabric patterns, previous engraved gems, etc) or natural motifs.
Feel free to contact me off list if I can be of any assistance.
Good luck with your studies.
cheers,
larry

[Jeet]

Dear larry,,

Thankyou very much for your reply... Right now i am working with rhino.. and just today i download cinema 4d demo... I have seen that you mostly render the model in cinema 4d... i am learning the cinema4d rendering tutorials...

What do you think about modeling in cinema 4d? is it better rhino ?

Well... right now i have to make one pendent that will have a pooh cartoon shape... this is the first time i am gonna model some artistic model. I need to model it with all smooth surface with max 1.2 mm height.. the size will be 20 x 25 mm....

I have attached the 2d work i made for the same...

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/1082/2dartwork2aa.th.jpg (http://img337.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2dartwork2aa.jpg)

I found it difficult to model such a model... can you suggest any good software that will be better to model such 3d releif?

Regarding the 2d artwork... i just wanted to know the software because i have lot of homework to be finished on paper ... i mostly make everything 3d with rendering instead doing 2d artwork. Like the one you can see below... is the jewelry peice.... its only surface as its not gonna be manufectured with machines... just hand working... its very popular in dubai and india....

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/1629/goldjewlryfinal8kt.th.jpg (http://img337.imageshack.us/my.php?image=goldjewlryfinal8kt.jpg)

Regards

Jeet.

[andrewjohn81]

you may want to do some experimenting with polys on the pooh model

If you create some planar shapes, then convert to a fairly complex poly model you can pull the vertexes up with enough detail.
The pulling part may be easier in Max or Maya. They are a bit better at polys.
Maya would be the best for this because you can easily pin down the edges to make sure you don't move them.
Cinema 4d is good for rendering, but the modeling isn't good for production as far as I know. I have used it very limited though.

You could make that in nurbs, but would take much longer.

I'm pretty sure Rhino can do this at least with a plugin too: you can create a greyscale image and use it to create depth for polys.

[Glyptic]

Hi, Jeet,
Good luck with your Pooh character.
That is a relatively complex model no matter what software you use. It has movement, expression and is a character that is widely known, so mistakes are obvious even to a 4 year old.
A very skilled Rhino Jockey could do it, but would probablly spend a lot more time, than a skilled C4D'er or ZBrusher making the same model. Same for Maya or Max.
Personally, I could carve it by hand quicker than I could model it on a computer. I don't use the computer for figurative work for that reason.
The only advice I can give is, if you must do this with a computer look at the tutes and do the ones that look most similar in nature. Because I have C4D, thats where I would look.
There are a lot of "Character" tutorials out there. Look at C4DCafe. Very skilled and helpful folks. And the forum here on CGTalk.
Good luck. Sorry I couldn't be more help.
L

[Jeet]

Dear friends....

Thankyou very much to both of you ...

Well, i have already started making some releif with rhino... but i think it will be much difficult... because all i have to play with 1 mm hight for the whole model...

If i model this in other softs like maya, 3d studio or c4d... i can transform the whole 3d model in 1 mm thickness..... but it is also not much good method because some parts will have very less height compare to the other part of the model....

Infact in such project i dont need to correct the aspect ration of whole model... just i need to create surface with same maximum height or less to it with dome shaped surface.....

Well greyscale could be a good solution for this...

But i would like to know how to make such greyscale image... i already knowing how artcam and type3 works with greyscale... infect i have tried a year before to create some greyscale images... but i was not able to produce the perfect thing yet for creating such greyscale images.

Another solution might be using a artcam or type3 that have such feature of making 3d releif....

I will try to find some better to do this...

Regards

Jeet

[Jeet]

SEe my new ring...

http://img324.imageshack.us/img324/6291/wip1ol.th.jpg (http://img324.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wip1ol.jpg)

It will be completed soon

regards

jeet.

[Glyptic]

Hi, Jeet,
Very nice ring.
How will it be RP'd? Can you post a photograph when its finished?
That would be nice to see.
cheers,
larry

[Jeet]

Dear larry,


Well... i dont know... when it will be RP'd but whenever it will get ready... i will post you the images...

well... i tried doing with zbrush... well its good to use zbrush but it only supports wavefont .obj file and autocad exchange .dxf file only...

so i tried modeling pooh again in rhino... i hope it would be nice to learn character modeling in rhino...

Thanks to tutorial section in cgtalk forum... because one of the person have posted so many rhino tutorials... i am trying following the "secrets of rhinoceros" tutorial.... that have 2 modeling tuts in it....

Poooh is not that hard... people have prepared so many complex models like god buddha also in rhino.... i will try my best...

http://gallery.mcneel.com/?language=en&i=753

thankyou

regards

jeet.

[JJ54]

Jeet,

I used to make jewelry (faceted, cabacon, constructed, and cast) - ONLY as a hobby. I like your work. Your neckpiece is very interesting! The first mistake I made was the first ring I constructed. I still wear it to remind me of my error :) . NO SHARP POINTS!! They can hurt the skin or catch fabric and pull. Your first ring looks like it MIGHT catch on something and pull the setting or tear cloth. It is hard to tell without being able to manipulate the model.

Just my 2 cents.

Jim

[Jeet]

Dear jim....

First of thankyou for your comments....

I really apprciate what you said.... I will from now onwards design everything with smooth corners and i will keep in mind your advice...

Well... i have started modeling such rings 2 month before with rhino... and i found a bit difficulty with filleting the corners... but my friend glyptic (larry) has given some idea to resolve the filleting problem.... so i am now a days trying to make everything better....

I would like to see what you have produced uptill now... only one or two if you can show...

I am designer only... and i dont now much about the manufecturing aspects... but as i am mechanical engineer i do well about investment casting rapid prototyping and milling...

Here i have attached a ring.. still it have the sharpen edges... but its for presentation only... i will going to give the fillet to each of the edges... and i will keep in mind your suggestions...

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/9484/ring4c2yp.th.jpg (http://img64.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ring4c2yp.jpg)

Best Regards

Jeet

[Glyptic]

Hi, Jeet,
Nice ring.
Not an easy modeling task in Rhino.
Regardling the need for fillets on this piece, I think most of what would be needed would happen naturally during the mfg process, ie most of the sharp edges will be rounded off by the finishing processes.
Fillets that are desireable for renderings are often not necessary for RP. Thus you can get away with some naked edges and "sloppy" modeling for your render. Getting good, water tight fillets at the points on your curves can be "real work".
I have a friend that designs jewelry with Rhino that says "My work is 90% Rhino and 10% file", referring to filing the raw casting into its final form. A 10% loss of metal in finishing is not unusual for a polished piece.
Good luck with your jewelry work, and please keep posting.
cheers,
larry

[Jeet]

Friend,

Thankyou for your comment... actually i didnt much in tuch with the manufactureing... but thanks for advising...

Regarding the imageshack link i have posted... well...the image is not in the real size i have uploaded with....

You can get best result with following link... instead of looking it in the html version of the imageshack webpage...


http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/9484/ring4c2yp.jpg

i have applied secular bloom in photoshop on the ready rendered image...

Well... modeling pooh is still going on but i have one more parallel exercise... I drawn a necklace with something special about the design... and its very liked by someone....

I am now going to model the necklace full of diamonds with pave settings....

Will show you line work for sure soon...

Best Regards

Jeet.

[Azeiku]

Hi guys, I don't want to steal the party but thought I'd show my work too.

I put a screen shot of the model used to cut the wax. A picture of the wax, and a picture of the finished ring.

Enjoy!
jason (Azeiku)

[Azeiku]

Here is a collage of the original design that I did for the ring in the post above. The renders were done in POV-Ray.

[Jeet]

Hi Azeiku,

Your ring is nice.... What i found interesting is you put model, wax and ready peice of work...

Well... i dont know how you will feel but i would like to see the .3dm file of the model you have prepared...

Infact i want to see the cross section of the channel you made...

Do you already knowing about the size of the channel gem?

Can you tell me which gem size you used for channel and wanna see the cross section of the channel....

Will be most better if i receive the .3dm model...

It is i want for study only...

BEst Regards

Jeet

[Azeiku]

Jeet... Thanks. :) The channel isn't super complex. It basically has a groove in the side for the girdle of the channel diamonds (melee.) The melee size are about 2 point.

When they cut the wax they probably just used a straight end mill bit that cut a channel and didn't worry about the groove for girdle of the melee. The jeweler that set the diamonds probably did the work of making the groove for the melee so they stay in the channel. I believe they just bend it over the top of the diamond. If you put a princess shaped melee, consider 5-10% coverage from the setting per side. That way they stay secure.

Here is a screenshot of the channel. I made the edge yellow so you could see it better. It really isn't super important to be this fancy though if you are going to have the ring manufactured.

The only reason why I designed this ring and had it made was because my girlfriend (now fiance) wanted a "one of a kind" ring that she knows nobody else has. Well making this was how I completed that requirement. ;-)

-jason

[Jeet]

Now i understood... actually i was much worried about how they produce the groove in the channel... but its jewelrs task...

Thankx...

You have made something unique for your fiance.... Cool....

I have one necklace i am gonna design for my girlfriend too.... i will show it to you soon....

Attached is the another piece of work i made yesterday... have a look...


http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/9367/cluster034co.th.jpg (http://img340.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cluster034co.jpg)

Let me to know about the rendering... comments...

Regards

Jeet

[jigu]

hey jeetu nice ring!! BTW i will suggest u turn on antialiasing...or increase it...the edge looks too much alias and zigzag.

[Glyptic]

Hi, Jeet,
Nice ring. I particularly like the shank.
With regard to the cluster setting, the posts seem a bit long as it comes off the shank. The length of posts are generally in proportion to the depth of the stone ie you wouldn't put a 5mm deep stone in a 15mm high set of prongs. Well, not usually.
Maybe make the cluster a bit more spherical and draw the back end of the prongs up closer to the stone.
The point of the prongs is only to hold and protect the stone, not become a distracting design element.
You're making real progress with your designs in Rhino.
cheers,
larry
ps Nice touch to fillet the ends of the posts for rendering. A lot of people forget that, and it looks like their stones are set with fence posts.

[Jeet]

Well... this design i didnt made... just i modeled it from the sketch...
One of the customer need the exact what on paper... so i just replicate it into the CAD.

Design has definately problem as you describe... but have a look at the side and front view....

http://img310.imageshack.us/img310/4121/testrender6bm.th.jpg (http://img310.imageshack.us/my.php?image=testrender6bm.jpg)

That cluster cage is different... its just not a support...

Regarding the organic modeling with nurbs... there we can use claytools by http://www.sensable.com/
http://www.sensable.com/products/Rhino/index.asp
Something new technology vise...

Download the video of the sculpting... a better option for organic modeling with nurbs in rhino...

regards

jeet

[Glyptic]

Jeet,
Thanks for posting those two views. They help understand the prong length.
And if thats what the customer wants, hey, that's IT.
Please keep posting.
And other jewelers too. This is a good place to post & share such things.
cheers,
larry

[Jeet]

Hi friends...

Have a look at my new pave ring....

http://img321.imageshack.us/img321/668/cartierpave6eq.th.jpg (http://img321.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cartierpave6eq.jpg)

write the +ve and -ve things about it.

regards

jeet

[Glyptic]

Jeet,
Very nice ring!!
It makes me appreciate the fact I am not a diamond setter.......
How you array the holes for the stones? I'm always interested in arrays on compound curves.
Did you use Boolean Difference for the holes? Did you do a bunch at one time, or one at a time. I use nPower Solids for that kind of thing and it cranks right through them.
Let us know something of how you built the ring.
Thanks in advance.
cheers,
larry

[silba]

Hi Jeet,

Great designs and renderings. What are you using to render? is it flamingo or C4D.

There was a mention of using greyscale images and I thought I would add a pooh that I made for a porcelain topper a while back using a greyscale for polygonal deformation. For this paticular job it was succesful.

http://www.infinitegray.com/pooh.jpg

Here is the greyscale image I used
http://www.infinitegray.com/pooh_grayscale.jpg (http://www.infinitegray.com/pooh_grayscale.jpg)

I have a friend that is looking for a good school to learn jewelry design and I am curious as to which school you attend and was a degree in mechanical engineering a prerequisite for what you are doing now.

Thanks
Basil

[Glyptic]

Hi, Basil,
Very interesting photo & greyscale you posted.
Is the color photo the finished product you modeled from the greyscale?
Nicely done, if that's the case.
Did you model it in Rhino?
I would be interested to know how you generated such a subtle grayscale.
Did you use a displacement map to get the form for the model?
I'm working with Rhino and C4D/Jenna. The former for modeling, the latter for rendering, and applying textures to those models for RP output (jewelry).
Thanks in advance for posting some of your experiences.
cheers,
larry

[silba]

Hey Glyptic,

Thanks for your comments

I use modo and Lightwave for modeling and rendering. Its only recently that I have started playing around with Rhino and Solidworks. Yes the color jpeg is part of the finished product, the company I work for uses a lot of licensed characters, so I usually start with a line drawing and come up with a grayscale based on that. The greyscale is then used as a displacement map, though if I had to do it over again today I would probably create a normal map to get better results.
I have recently become more interested in moving away from organic shapes to more CAD/CAM type of modeling. I find the stuff you guys are doing very fasinating, not jewelry in paticular but the whole modeling for RP field.

Thanks
Basil

[Glyptic]

Hi, Basil,
Thanks for the insights.
You should enjoy Rhino. Its easy, fast, precise and fun. And then all of a sudden, it can get complicated. But thats what forums are for........
I'm very interested in your grayscale rendering. Is that modeled and rendered, or "painted" based on the 2D drawing you have?
Have you worked with displacement maps output to STL files and RP'd?
Starting with a grayscale, and ending up with a porcelain lid, requires an RP process at some point. What are they using? Perfactory? That's my preference.
Anyway, thanks for posting.
I hope you enjoy Rhino.l
cheers,
larry

[jigu]

Hi jeet...nice ring.

[Jeet]

Hi basil...

sorry, i couldnt replied you .. because my internet connection was not working...

i used rhinoceros for modeling and flamingo for rendering...

Regarding the jewelry designing... i am learning it from a local institute.. but for your friend.. i suggest GIA (gemological institute of america) or IGI (International gemological institute).

I am learning manual jewelry designing with pencil colors and water colors...

CAD i am learning my self... your friend can reffer some cadwax tutorial and rhino tutorial for modeling basics...

Graduate is i think the basic eligibility for GIA and IGI ....mechanical engineering will really help in understanding the 3d.

I again like to know about that greyscale you used.

Did you made greyscale of pooh yourself? if yes then how?

Thankyou

Regards

Jeet

[silba]

Here it is with the displacement applied on the left and both displacement and color on the right.http://www.infinitegray.com/pooh_disp.jpg

Hi Glyptic,

The colored jpeg is only a rendering of what the product should look like. Our company usally comes up with concepts and then creates it virtually for print, and if they like what they see they send it to the far east for sculpting samples and later for manufacturing. So I really don't come in contact with the people who fabricate the design. So there is a break between what I create on the computer and the actual fabrication. The sculptors in the far east use printed visual references to achieve a likeness.

Hi jeet,

Thanks for the info regarding the institutes, very helpful. There is nothing to the greyscale really, it was done in photoshop using a ink line drawing provided by Disney for reference. Using the little skills I have as an illustrator I created the greyscale in photoshop. One thing to remember is that lighter areas are elevated and darker areas remain recessed when the greyscale is used as a displacement map in any 3D program. Also try to avoid converting color images into greyscale and using it as a deformation map it simply won't have the right information, it also would have too much noise creating unwanted deformations. If you are fimiliar with bump maps then you already have a pretty good idea about displacement maps. How to use dislplacement maps in Rhino would be a question for Glyptic since I am not that fimiliar with the program. I not even sure if it has this feature but my guess would be that it should.

Thanks
Basil

[Glyptic]

Hi, Basil,
Thanks for posting.
I use C4D/Jenna for my displacement maps as they are baked for STL output, so I really don't know what Rhino will do. I know it will do "heightfields", but I'm not sure what options it offers once you got it loaded.
So you created grayscale in Photoshop? Like airbrushing a line drawing? If so, you did a beautiful job.
Nice tip about not converting to grayscale from color. I've noticed a bunch of garbage when I do that and didn't know what it was from.

You could also take your take your "flat" Pooh into C4D and using soft selection, probably do a good job of modeling it.
There's a zillion ways to do this stuff. And its always fun to see how other people do it.
And do it well.......
Thanks again for posting.
cheers,
larry

[Jeet]

Dear basil,

You have done something really nice... i have never seen anyone converting sketch to greyscale just with photoshop... you have definately archieved the best...

I have seen so many greyscale images on interenet, but the fact behind them is... they all were created from ready 3d reliefs...instead with photoshop or any 2d painting programm...

I have also tried the same... and i get a success too with photoshop but only problem i faced was with the head of a pooh....

I have done some work before a week with photoshop... and i created the following leg only with photoshop layers....

But only thing i was finiding difficult was the face of the pooh....

I would like you to explore the method to create such facial effect with photoshop and what are the tools being used...... IT will be great help from you....

I am very well awared with the greyscale and its tone....

I have used only inner glow and outerglow technique of phothoshop layer to create such leg....

I also would like to know... for best result what was your image size and dots per inch....

Like you could have some maths liike................

For (A) mm length X (B) mm width X (C) mm sculpting height the best image size for greyscale is say for example (P) x (Q) and dots per inch is equal to (S)

This informations will be really helpful....

[silba]

Hi jeet,
http://www.infinitegray.com/greyscale_leg.jpg

Thats a good start on that greyscale, the only problem is that the grey around the leg shape is too even and doesn't emphasise the areas that are elavated the most or receede the most and the areas inbetween.
I made some quick changes to the greyscale you made just to show you what I mean. The back of the leg should be more of a darker value and fade into the front of the leg. The knee in this case would be the lightest value since it sticks out the most, second would be the toe. So what I really mean is even though you are drawing in 2D you should keep the Z axis in mind when you make a displacement map. Also try to avoid making sharp creases like the one differenciating the foot/toe from the lowerleg, in reality it would be gently fading back to the lower leg, so try creating the Z depth with the help of darker values. If you keep this in mind when you create the Pooh's head you should do alright.

If you create an alpha channel with the outline of the shape you need not be worried about the edges when you paint a map, you can feel free to go outside the edge and always use the alpha channel to clip map(probably called someting else in Flamingo) or cut out the outer areas in a 3D program.

I am not sure what the inner/outer glow method is but I am assuming you mean the blending options in photoshop. I would suggest using a soft brush with pressure turned on, if you use a tablet it would work even better.

For image size I would refer the final output size that you want to create for the render. I work with print for advertising so most of my maps are made at 300 dpi and the scale of the object in reality would be my guide for measurments.

Hope that helps

Thanks
Basil

[Jeet]

Your informations are really gonna help me out...

Many many Thankx for your help...

I understood everything you told me.... Now i will try doing all this with photoshop....

Well.. i dont have tablet....

And i want to buy the one... i would like to know out of following two intious3 tablet size... which is better?

6 x 8 ?
or
9 x 12 ?

I am asking because some one told me that small is better and some told that bigger size is better....

Thankx

Regards

Jeet

[silba]

I use a wacom 12x12 both at work and home, but using their software I have sized down the drawing area to about 8x10 in photoshop. In the end I think it comes down to personal preference over any perceived advantage due to size.

take care
Basil

[Jeet]

Thankyou...

i am gonna buy intios 3 wiht 6x8

cheers

jeet

[Jeet]

Hi friends....

At last i learned organic modeling.....

Attached is the snap of my WIP.

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/2537/pooh5bf.th.jpg (http://img257.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pooh5bf.jpg)

Regards

Jeet.

[Jeet]

hi friends.

see the whole pooh finished..

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/862/pooh12ia.th.jpg (http://img117.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pooh12ia.jpg)

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/6822/pooh24el.th.jpg (http://img117.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pooh24el.jpg)

regards

jeet.

[Glyptic]

Hi, Jeet.
Very well done!
You've made such progress with your modeling, you should see quite a bit of progress in your work very soon.
Being able to model with NURBS and polys is a good combination of skills.
Good luck.
Please keep posting.
cheers,
larry

[Jeet]

The pooh is still needed to fix... infact this is a learning part....

I am now gonna re-model the whole with using vertex weight... that is not used in this model thats why its not that much realistic..

have a look at 3 minute rendering with rhino... its stl rendering

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/3928/poohrendergold13nh.th.jpg (http://img357.imageshack.us/my.php?image=poohrendergold13nh.jpg)

Thankx for your reply..

regards

jeet

[silba]

Hi Glyptic, Jeet,

Saw your last post Jeet, its looking pretty good, were you going for the embossed look or a 3 dimensional one?

Just wanted to direct you guys to some work I posted a couple of days ago. Love to hear your comments.

camcorder (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=268135)

Thanks

Basil

[Glyptic]

Hi, Basil,
Very nice modeling and render.
I do agree with some of the other comments about a little too much DOF. But, if that is the look you wanted, then you succeeded.
I get the same thing with my jewelry renders. Somebody mentions something that I actually did on purpose.......
You modeled the camera in Modo? Or Rhino? Either way, its a very nice model. Very realistic.
Please keep posting.
cheers,
larry

[Jeet]

Hi basil...

Camcorder is really fine...

I dont find any DOF problem...

Regarding the pooh... its just embossed surface only... its not 3d.

This pooh is just a work while learn... I am going to remodel it again. I didnt use edge weight tool that i am gonna use this time.

regards

jeet.

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