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View Full Version : The Art Techniques and Theories Forum needs your help!!!


Lunatique
07-04-2005, 08:24 AM
Ever noticed that many of the excellent artists who post their artworks on cgtalk aren't necessarily participating in the community? Wouldn't it be awesome if we can get these excellent artists to come in the Art Techniques and Theories forum and actually talk about techniques, theory, show tutorials, talk about inspirations..etc?

Here's how you can help:

If there are artists whoes work you love, go and invite them to come to the cgtalk Art Techniques and Theories Forum and participate!

When Linda posts her awesome tutorials, people totally dig them. Can you imagine if we had more experienced artists doing the same here?

There have been private complaints among the Forum Leaders that the Art Techniques and Theories Forum doesn't have enough practical discussions about the actual making of art, and has too much "intellectual masturbation" stuff that doesn't really help us become better artists (because those philosophical discussions are always highly subjective. One man's worshipped art God is another man's despised hack). I'm not saying the philosophical discussions are not cool, I'm just saying we need to balance them with more practical discussions that can really help us improve our techniques and knowledge. The problem is, the experienced artists are among a very small minority of the members that actually come into the Art Techniques and Theories forum. We need more experienced artists to come in here and lead the discussions, share knowledge..etc.

cthorp
07-06-2005, 06:23 AM
I would be glad to post some tid bit demos from my work. Still have a way to go but I love to teach and could probably contribute. I might need some help figuring out how to upload the images to the forum. If you want to see some of my work it is at the address below. Some is traditional but most is digital.

www.theispot.com/artist/cthorp

Feel free to email me to get me started.

My latest digital piece is a billboard for the discovery channel.

http://brooklynbrothers.com/print_taming.html

Captain Fandango
07-08-2005, 12:02 AM
If I may be so bold, perhaps the fine webheads here at cgtalk might be kind enough to bless us with a seperate tutorial board? At the moment, community-written tutorials posted on the art discussion forums seem to dissappear beneath the waves of trivial questions and debates at a rather alarming rate. Perhaps a dedicated board may serve to lengthen the lives of these precious tidbits, encouraging potential contributors to add their own knowledge to the bundle?

I apologize in advance if I overlooked something - I haven't been here terribly long.:shrug:

tevih
07-08-2005, 01:06 AM
Rebecca's anatomy review is great (maybe that should be in this forum?!). I have been trying to get some of my professors to get involved in CGTalk - many of them are "regular" artists who are just getting into digital.

Tutorials can be stickied to stay at the top.

I would love to have more great artists lending their knowledge and wisdom! Never can have enough...

jmBoekestein
07-08-2005, 02:04 AM
same here...yuo can never have enough...

I love discussions because philosophy gets you anywhere eventually, but to learn practically you really need to dig into this webboard since tutorials are scattered all over and very application specific.

Lunatique
07-08-2005, 02:41 AM
cthorp - To post images: when you reply, notice the toolbar with all those icons and text formatting tools? There's a yellow one with a mountain and a sun in the sky, to the left of the # icon. Click that and insert your image's url.

Definitely post some tutorials. Can never have enough of those.

Captain Fandango - I think the best solution is to add the tutorial threads to the "Art Theory & Tutorials" sticky thread we already have.

tevih - I've already asked about moving Rebecca's thread here. Captain Fandango

jmBoekestein - I'm not sure if we should include tutorials from all aspects of CG though, since each forum have their own sticky threads for tutorials. The Art Discussion forum should probably concentrate on tutorials for digital painting, art theories (composition, color theory, anatomy, perspective)..etc.

jmBoekestein
07-08-2005, 02:57 AM
Well, I'm all for it, I'm keeping an eye out. :) Thanks for the effort put into this. :thumbsup:

erilaz
07-12-2005, 06:28 AM
Agreed. This is a community that thrives on the help of others. If the amazing artists knew how much they could give I'm sure they'd have no problem!:D

Peddy
07-12-2005, 06:40 AM
there are so many amazing artists that come into cgtalk, post up their work, gets some stars, some butt kissing and some crits, and then hit the road. and thats fine. sounds like they are working their butts off unlike myself, but i do wonder what things would be like around these forums if all these talented people spoke up =].

I second the motion to move Rebecca's thread into the art discussion forum.

nebezial
07-12-2005, 07:01 AM
lol... immakin some tuts too... buut then,, u might reconsider the name of this forum.. tutoriart discussion hahaha :thumbsup:

snowkiwi
07-12-2005, 07:30 AM
Hi Lunatique. It's good to see you on the front page again.

I agree, having the right mind is one thing, having the skill to express the right mind is another. I also agree that Linda's tutorials are awesome and very insightful to approaching a medium through a skilled hand.

I think a lot of the greats are too busy being great to help the little people. If they do help the little people it is usually for a fee. So two problems I see for them wanting to help.
One: Because they think they're great they are less likely to help the ones he or she thinks is lower than them. Like a king is too high to help the servant, or someone he thinks littler. They are usually too busy with themselves to care.
And of course many of the high artists are introvert. Artist's character are usually flawed socially, or not socially mature. If artists do have a great artistic image, to help another s/he thinks littler will have a chance/possibilty of exposing their social weakness, and to be seen as equals instead of being higher. If they are exposed for having a flaw, and high image people are usually thought to be above average all-round in character, their fame would be lost when seeing this social flaw along with losing all the benefits of fame.

Like for example in the case of being too high, I'm not sure that Boris Vallejo will come to help because of his high fame or image stature. Even though there are many artists in this forum that could match him, his high image of himself would keep him away.

Two:I think in their affection to help those in need (the little people) without a price I think they would have to have giving nature, or giving inner character. This character is not naturally present in most of the population. To have a giving character one has to be unselfish. To be unselfish a person would have to already feels he has much to give, or the security (inner or outer) to give. Like say for a bum, it is hard to give anything because he hardly has anything - or has less material security. For this bum to give, since he doesn't have external security or possessions, he would have to have inner security to give. Inner security also means to be spiritually satisfied. To be whole inside enough to feel they have the abundance to give. Jesus talked about a poor woman giving the only cent she had to charity. This is an example of spiritual satisfaction, or internal security, to freely give. Since most of the population is not rich in finances or spirituality is probably the reason most of the population is not giving. Artists are also a minority of the population. Great artists are even a lesser minority. So it's understandable that great artists that do give, for instance the lovely Linda Bergkvist, are very rare.

Excuse me if I didn't get all the aspects, it's naptime over here. I just wanted to say hi really, and ended writing all this. Keep rocking Luna.

Windmill
07-12-2005, 08:05 AM
I agree, It's something I would very much like to see.. I would post up tutes and stuff myself only I'm neither excellent or amazing in the slightest.

penartist26
07-12-2005, 08:23 AM
i agree with lunatique i know theres a lot of cg talk members here are too shy and hiding their
impressive skills' and techniques pls. we need ur artistic help not only enayla not only feng zhui
or others blah blah we need u to help us artists to become better and to develop more our traditional digital skills so let THE SHOW BEGINS! :scream:

DDS
07-12-2005, 08:41 AM
We need YOU

:bowdown:

ragdoll
07-12-2005, 09:34 AM
A jump start from Lunatique should get this started... :)

After visiting your site, I'd be very interested in a detailed tutorial and a more "practical discussion" from you... :)

I'd be more than happy to share what I can... :)

-rj

MrPositive
07-12-2005, 09:48 AM
I'd love to see a tutorials section where it's easily accessible from the main page. I've been wondering why it's not here for a long while.

ashakarc
07-12-2005, 09:49 AM
psssst..check out this thread (http://cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=251198&page=8&pp=15), best kept secret on CGTalk

Olijosman, generously throwing some tips (http://cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=251198&page=6&pp=15) and making of...enjoy!

Rebeccak
07-12-2005, 10:52 AM
Hey Lunatique, and everyone participating in this discussion :)

I am quite happy under WIP/Critique: 2D, Illustrations and Concept Art (http://www.cgtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=31), as I am no Art Philosopher ~ more of an Art Griper, really ;) ~ and feel more at home in the practical, nuts and bolts, this is how you should PRACTICALLY break down form, dissect imagery, and work with Artistic concepts than in discussions about Bauhaus :) ~ that's just me.

I requested that I be under WIP/Critique: 2D, Illustrations and Concept Art (http://www.cgtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=31) specifically for that reason ~ because I feel that it is most appropriate, as I personally identify with much of the work being created in that forum. I have a background in Illustration, and not Aesthetics, so I feel that my "Artistic Anatomy and Figurative Art" forum fits rather happily into WIP. I would not wish to have the forum moved.

Having said that, I do sympathize with some of the comments here regarding the need for more tutorials / REAL interaction amongst artistic peers on CGTalk. But having artists like Stahlberg, Lunatique, Enayla et al on the Art Discussion forum means that there are already SEVERAL experienced artists here with much to share. Linda and others have shared many tutorials, and perhaps the solution is merely to have them centralized in one location (as a Sticky) in the Art Discussion forum.

There is room for many forums here, and, as I said, I am quite happy in WIP. People bounce around, contributing to various forums, and I actually think this is healthier for CGTalk in that it forces people to visit other "galaxies" they might not have were everything TOO conveniently placed ~ I certainly have ended up in unexpected corners of CGTalk that have been enlightening, if far beyond my realm of personal experience or interest.

I believe the answer is just to have a Sticky on the Art Discussion forum in which people can post their tutorials. It is true that people can contribute more to the community than just their kind comments on others' work. Anyone and everyone has knowledge which is valuable and which they can share. People continue to amaze me in their diversity and complexity, and I feel that were there a centralized place within the Art Discussion forum for the needed tutorials Lunatique has solicited, people would naturally gravitate towards that location.

Hope this helps :)

~Rebeccak

Peddy
07-12-2005, 11:21 AM
I think the point is that the art discussion forum wasnt intended to be an exclusively philosophical forum, but a culmination of opinions on art and society and the practical application and techniques of art, equally.

Rebecca, its ultimately your choice where your thread goes, but I'm trying to say that it doesnt not belong in the art discussion.

It's true that the Art Discussion forum has become more of a theoretical discussion of art, and even tutorials have a tendency to be flattened out for a broad application over as much digital art as possible. From what I've seen from the Anatomy sub-forum, its got a good mixture of 'nuts and bolts' and theory, so it belongs in either and in both forums, in my opinion.

I'd personally like to see it in the Art discussion forum, mostly because I see art discussion as a learning tool more than anything else.

Lunatique
07-12-2005, 11:57 AM
Rebecca - As Peddy already mentioned, the Art Discussion Forum was not created for only discussions of "intellectual masturbation" type of topics. It was always meant to be part discussion, part learning, and part sharing knowledge. Have you seen the sticky threads we have in there? Lots of really great tutorials and practical art foundation teachings like color theory, composition, values..etc.

The reason why some have asked to have your anatomy lessons in the Art Discussion Forum instead is probably because the WIP 2D forum was never meant for teaching, tutorials..etc. It was created to allow people to post their sketches/concept art and works in progress, so they can get feedback from others. I think it got turned into a learning/activities forum only because cgtalk didn't have an appropriate forum at the time for those types of topics. I remember many times back then, when there were topics related to painting or art theory..etc, we just threw them in the WIP 2D forum because we didn't know where else to put them. That was PRECISELY why the Art Discussion Forum was created--so that topics like that would have a home, and more topics like them would be welcomed with open arms. But it seems that the WIP 2D forum has established itself because those types of topics has been in there for too long, and people have gotten used to the idea. However, they should never have been in the WIP 2D forum in the first place--it was only a temporary solution.

If the Art Discussion Forum is to be "intellectual masturbation" only, I'd rather just kill it, because that was absolutely NOT why it was created. In fact, the forum should probably be renamed to "Art Discussion and Learning" instead, or "Art Discussion and Tutorials."

The problem we're facing right now is that we have a overlap in content and focus between the Art Discussion Forum and the WIP 2D forum, and that's a problem because each should concentrate on what they were created for. The Daily Sketch stuff belongs in the WIP 2D forum because they are group activities for people to sketch on a given topic, but the anatomy and the tutorial threads technically should be in the Art Discussion Forum, because that's what the forum was created for--learning and sharing knowledge about art theories, techniques..etc.

Anyway, I have no decision making powers--only the voice to make suggestions. Truth is, none of us will lose any sleep over any of this stuff. Afterall, we all volunteered our time and energy because we enjoy being part of the community.

Kargokultti
07-12-2005, 12:05 PM
Masturbation is perfectly healthy, practically even good for you :D
But you know, naming a forum Art Discussion, you've sort of dug your own trap there.

Lunatique
07-12-2005, 12:22 PM
But you know, naming a forum Art Discussion, you've sort of dug your own trap there.

You have no idea how much I wish for a time machine so I could go back and name it more appropriately. Maybe I could get the people in charge to change it.

Stahlberg
07-12-2005, 12:24 PM
But you know, naming a forum Art Discussion, you've sort of dug your own trap there.

Yeah, but then what do you name something like this? Art 101? Art Basics?
Maybe we should just rename it: Art Techniques and Tutorials

Lunatique
07-12-2005, 12:27 PM
Yeah, but then what do you name something like this? Art 101? Art Basics?
Maybe we should just rename it: Art Techniques and Tutorials

I actually like Art Techniques and Tutorials. Sounds pretty smooth.

Or, maybe "Art Techniques and Discussions"?

Kargokultti
07-12-2005, 12:53 PM
Well, as one of the culprits in the endless intellectual masturbation threads I'd vote for keeping Discussion in the title. But that's just me.

Lunatique
07-12-2005, 01:14 PM
I think "Art Theories and Techniques" would be a great one, since "theories" includes discussions, foundation, knowledge..etc. "Techniques" includes tutorials and discussions and Q&A type topics.

mindrot
07-12-2005, 01:29 PM
OOO... sounds like a fab idea.

I often see some really great pieces posted up, but then once the image is posted you never hear or see that artist again till they post their next work. Some don't even bother responding to questions asked, which could be a prob *sighs*

Anyway... I really hope this works.

:thumbsup:

Neil
07-12-2005, 02:20 PM
I remember a ways back when forums were getting cut and the idea was to stream line cgtalk. Now it seems everyone is demanding their own forums for their own topics again. I don't wanna sound difficult, but if the interest dies down in a month from now (which seems to happen often) then the mods are gonna be talking about cutting forums again. I would prefer consistency.
Maya people want more maya demos, max people want more max demos, programmers want individual sections, gamers want individual sections... that's just what happens when you're passionate about your skill set. But that doesn't necessarily mean it appeals to everyone. I've gotten used to just working with what we're given.

danielh68
07-12-2005, 02:32 PM
Art Theories and Techniques

Sounds great.

Hooch
07-12-2005, 02:45 PM
I think this is good idea, but also think this should be as simple as this...

1. Artist upload (his or her) full Tutorial, and I mean complete!.

2. people start the discussion and questions, but questions about the Artist Tecniques!
no questions like... "Hi!, how can I make a good demo!?" or "what 3d program is better...?"

(most tecniques can be apply to any 3d software, if not, there's always a way to work around with it.) :)

3. Artist should commit to answer as much questions as possible.

well, that was my two cents... hope to help this great idea. :shrug:

iART
07-12-2005, 04:10 PM
Just name it "Online Schooling".

You want to keep this or any thread focused and useful for future reference? Delete all fanboy and pointless posts. There's nothing worse than looking for your favorite shirt in your roommates sea of dirty socks.

feel free to delete this post after reading it. ;)

RobertoOrtiz
07-12-2005, 04:59 PM
I go away for a day, and there are people with pitchforks and torches in my doorway.


People, let do a group hug.

Having said that..

I love you guys, but lets not change the rules of the game after the game has started.

The idea behind Art Discussion (http://www.cgtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=166) is to TALK art.

The idea behing the Artistic Anatomy and Figurative Art (http://www.cgtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=177) is to discusss the itty gritty principles of anatomy. Anatomy is NOT something that can be simply discussed in a two sentence tutorial. It requires YEARS to perfect and study, and people are responding to it. It is something that is done with A LOT of sketching and drawing, thus, that it is why it is in the WIP forum.



Why do we need it?

Lets look at HOW POPULAR it has been.
There is areason for it. People are STARVING for detailed studies on classical principles of the human body. and that is what the forum is offering them. Here is my take on it,
it the numbres go down, (and that will take a while considering the # of hits), Kill the subforum (i mean it is WAY out of the way) until then, leave it in peace.

-R

fabianv
07-12-2005, 05:20 PM
''intellectual masturbation'' - You could not have said it better.

I agree , the art discussion forum needs more people like Linda sharing their ideas enthusiastically for the sake of helping all other digital / traditional artists out there.

Im not good enough to share techniques but once I discover one of my methods would be useful to the community I would definately share :thumbsup:

HapZungLam
07-12-2005, 05:29 PM
does it limited to 2D art? or everything?

RobertoOrtiz
07-12-2005, 05:52 PM
Some ideas...

Create a series of threas called:

THE FUNDAMENTALS:
and discuss the core principles of Perpectice,
Color Theory, Light Theory.

There is enough material to go for a while.
ill visit the forum, after my class today and ill post some ideas on it.
-R

Lunatique
07-12-2005, 05:56 PM
I love you guys, but lets not change the rules of the game after the game has started.

The idea behind Art Discussion (http://www.cgtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=166) is to TALK art.


I'm sorry, but that is not true at all. If you go back and actually reread the brainstorming threads in the Forum Leader only forum, you'll see that the Art Discussion forum was always intended to be a source of learning and sharing art knowledge, along with discussions. Why do you think we made those sticky threads in the Art Discussion Forum? Why do you think I asked Steven and Linda to be a part of it? It's because they are experienced artists that could help guide and teach members that want to learn.

And what happens if we rename Art Discussion forum to Art Theories and Techniques? Wouldn't that mean it'll become the appropriate place for all art tutorials and learning threads? Would it be ok then to consolidate and reorganize things?

No one has said any of the threads in the WIP 2D forum aren't important. It is BECAUSE they are important that we should consolidate all the valuable learning materials in one place. It would be a bad idea to have the WIP 2D forum and the Art Discussion forum to have overlapping content and focus. One should be a place for people to post WIP works, and the other for people to learn, teach, and discuss art.

Boone
07-12-2005, 06:08 PM
Re: RobertoOrtiz & Lunatique.

SCRAP! SCRAP! SCRAP! :twisted:

Ilikesoup
07-12-2005, 07:24 PM
Art Discussion forum will be fairly broad in scope, but within the boundaries of drawing/painting/sculpting/design techniques, art theory discussions, philosophical discussions, art history, influential artists, inspirations, and legal issues relevant to artists.

You are encouraged to participate in the discussions, share knowledge and inspirations, invite artists you admire to join our community, and hopefully, we'll be able to learn and grow as artists together.

In all seriousness, Lunatique, you might want to edit your sticky. This sounds like recruitment poster for "intellectual masturbators". :hmm:

Anyway, I see a real value in the art-related discussions that have gone on. We should try to to balance those discussions with tutorials and such, but no need to purge the forum and start from scratch. The big question is, "How do we inspire people to write tutorials and post them in this forum?" We can start by rewriting the mission statement to emphasize the posting of tutorials.

mlaoxve
07-12-2005, 08:17 PM
Oh a voice in my head is speaking to me, the picture on the front page must suggest that i murder artists who dont show me their techniques.

snowkiwi
07-12-2005, 08:20 PM
Hey Rob, I was thinking and realized how much of a downer I was. You are trying to make a serious effort to ask others to help and I was mostly saying already that it wasn't going to work. Geez, I can't help but to look the fool. But from reading some posts after mine I came to notice the spirit of everyone coming together to help one another. I think that is what it's all about. Even though I do think that many artists that are not already a part of CGtalk.com are more likely to decline the offer because of the things I stated previously, I forgot momentarily the power of trying. it is also more likely they will come if their is sincere asking, than to not ask. Forgive me everyone for being a damper on this thread.
Also, I overlooked the gems within our own midst. Most everyone has something to offer this forum. When you stated 'artists that you admire' I automatically thought only about exceptional artists that were from an outside source (outside CGtalk.com). Many of the artists here are exceptional or have the potential to be. Many whom have great finds of artistic knowledge, and all they would have to do is volunteer it.
And, some of the really great artists already in this forum do not know to help until asked, or are too busy to know.

Hey Rob excuse me. My thinking hasn't really been clear lately, and my awareness of negative thoughts have lessened quite a bit. Do your do brother.

Art2
07-12-2005, 09:41 PM
And what happens if we rename Art Discussion forum to Art Theories and Techniques? Wouldn't that mean it'll become the appropriate place for all art tutorials and learning threads? Would it be ok then to consolidate and reorganize things?

I tend to agree with Lunatique. I think Rebecca's subforum should fall under the 'Art Discussion' Forum. It's, as Lunatique has stated, about learning... and discussion. The 'WIP' forum is for the wip's. Rebecca's subforum deals with theories about anatomy and learning the basics etc, so that will definately qualify more for an Art Discussion subforum.
Renaming this forum to 'Art Theories and Techniques' would be a good move, I think. It will also draw more people in, who were maybe previously shy about posting in an 'art discussion' forum.

Ilikesoup
07-12-2005, 10:00 PM
The Daily Sketch Forum has a sticky for topic suggestions. Why not create one for tutorial requests?

Example:
shading cloth
drawing feet
simulating rusted metal

That way some enterprising young artist can have an idea about what skills people want to learn and they can address the need. Even artists like to know that they're needed. :)

Maybe if there were even a little trophy icon awarded to top notch tutorials. A little positive reinforcement wouldn't hurt. :shrug:

TetraLynx
07-12-2005, 11:47 PM
This may be way out there but if these tutorials turn out really nicely they could go into a book published by Ballistic. So as far as incentive for people to post their tutorials, the thought that said work could end up being printed might up the anty. I can't think of many artists I know that wouldn't like to see their name in print even if they have been published before. The spirit of this idea is for education and discussion but throwing in some incentive never hurt. Plus, last time I checked this site gets most of it's revenues from book sales as well as what advertising can bring in and I think a good art book by the members here would sell well.

Dire-Wolf
07-13-2005, 01:21 AM
This may sound like a post with a twinge of some bitterness, but I would really love a tutorial thread. I find it hard to swallow when theirs a thread on how skin shaders work, and I canít find a single tidbit about how to use skin shades and sss. It really annoys the heck out of me. Maybe itís just me. I know theirs info in those threads but its lost in all that masturbation. I do feel itís important to discuss theories of skin shaders and sss, but if theirs no info for beginners its hard to partake in such a discussion and the information is lost because yours still struggling how they work to improve them. Itís because of the many threads that I see the artist looming over the spectators that I have sworn never to do the same. If someone needs help Iím going to help them


I sometimes feel that there's a sort of fear with good artists that their style and skill will be stolen and if they make a tutorial then there art will become less unique or their will be more qualified artists to compete with.


Itís like a double sided sword. The above is true, but if your craft are not passed on to the next generation, they will be lost and may never come alive. Imagery of a caged bird comes to mind.


Sorry about this post. Its how I feel. Both sides do have a point and reasons, I just wish I could find some hard info on mental ray for Maya and jazz like that.

With that said Iím going to have to side on having a threads based on tutorials with the above ideas for motivation.

Stahlberg
07-13-2005, 02:53 AM
In all seriousness, Lunatique, you might want to edit your sticky.

I think so too, simply remove the 2 items "art theory discussions" and "philosophy discussions". But that's easy to say now, nothing is sharper than hindsight is it. If we had known then what we know now...
There's nothing all that heinous about philosophical discussions, it's just that when most of the people involved are laymen in the field (in this case art, philosophy and metaphysics), and when everyone KNOWS from the start the subject is impossible to agree on and has no practical value to our work, it can take up valuable time and space for no good reason.

However, it might be a good idea to keep the longest silliest such thread as a Sticky, only name it "Example of useless circular bickering" or something, with an explanatory paragraph at the start, to help people avoid starting new ones - to work as a lightning rod, or as a cold shower, for people itching with philosophical questions. :)

It's understandable that Roberto wants to 'keep' Rebecca (she's a valuable asset both to CGTalk but also to the WIP forum he's worked so hard to make a success, he introduced her here etc), and that Rebecca wants to 'stay' with Roberto (he's the initial contact, they've built a relationship). I don't think we should fight over Rebecca. :)
Instead I think the 'Art Techniques, Theories, and Tutorials' (or whatever) forum should simply put up a big sticky link to Rebecca's subforum, maybe with a thumbnail at the top of the forum, maybe while we're at it also to the DSG and the Subway Sketch groups.

Lunatique
07-13-2005, 03:52 AM
I think so too, simply remove the 2 items "art theory discussions" and "philosphy discussions". But that's easy to say now, nothing is sharper than hindsight is it. If we had known then what we know now...
There's nothing all that heinous about philosophical discussions, it's just that when most of the people involved are laymen in the field (in this case art, philosophy and metaphysics), and when everyone KNOWS from the start the subject is impossible to agree on and has no practical value to our work, it can take up valuable time and space for no good reason.

However, it might be a good idea to keep the longest silliest such thread as a Sticky, only name it "Example of useless circular bickering" or something, with an explanatory paragraph at the start, to help people avoid starting new ones - to work as a lightning rod, or as a cold shower, for people itching with philosophical questions. :)

It's understandable that Roberto wants to 'keep' Rebecca (she's a valuable asset both to CGTalk but also to the WIP forum he's worked so hard to make a success, he introduced her here etc), and that Rebecca wants to 'stay' with Roberto (he's the initial contact, they've built a relationship). I don't think we should fight over Rebecca. :)
Instead I think the 'Art Techniques, Theories, and Tutorials' (or whatever) forum should simply put up a big sticky link to Rebecca's subforum, maybe with a thumbnail at the top of the forum, maybe while we're at it also to the DSG and the Subway Sketch groups.

Really good suggestions. Feel free to implement these changes Steven. I'll get on them too.

Lunatique
07-13-2005, 05:28 AM
Ok, I had the forum name changed and the sticky posts edited to reflect the change. I'll go ahead and add the sticky threads too.

Roberto & Rebecca - it was never my intent for some kind of "us vs. them" kind of thing--I was trying to work together with you guys to streamline the overlapping element of both forums. But since you guys are emotionally attached to the WIP 2D forum, I'll have to settle for using redirecting links and stickies to get people to see all the contents both forums have in one place.

MrPositive
07-13-2005, 06:17 AM
"Art Techniques, Tutorials, and Theories"


I'd go with this, considering how people go ape crazy when they hear the word 'tutorials'. You can add an extra 25% hits just for that word alone.


Edit: Ooops I guess you went with something else........coolio

cewolf
07-13-2005, 11:15 AM
thats agreat idea :thumbsup:

cewolf

Skjoldbroder
07-13-2005, 01:30 PM
Regarding this forum, I'd like to suggest the possibility of a few rule changes that should introduce a bit more discipline and hopefully increase creative output.

An example : When I went into the speed painting thread in this forum, I was a bit surprised that there isn't a single painting on the first page of posts. This in my view contradicts the entire point of the thread.

So

I think we need to set a few rules - like a rule that says "you can post in the [insert thread] as long as you attach an image" - this way we could avoid the huge number of posts saying stuff like "yeah, great idea", "very nice, i like", etc. etc. - Though these are obviously not wrong things to say, nor unfriendly, they take up space in the threads and remove your attention unnecessarily from the topic at hand. Obviously this practice would only be relevant in threads where the objective is to make people post their artwork, so not in cases of, say, theoretical art discussions.
This way of moderating threads has been practiced succesfully on other boards (an example is Bay Raitt's modeling board, where you can only post a reply in a thread if you include an interesting link)
- practically, this could be "enforced" by a simple check in the php/asp/whatever code before your post is accepted.

And there we have it. Thoughts, reactions?

(I'll stick this in a separate thread as well, to try and start a general discussion about this particular "discipline" - or whatever we choose to call it - issue)

All the best
/Mogens

mummey
07-13-2005, 03:44 PM
http://www.mummey.net/images/toolong.png

The title STILL sounds like intellectual masturbation. How about "Art Discussion - Issues related to art or relevant to artists"?

If you still want the detailed description, put it as a sticky inside the forum. Putting all that out here just appears too "wordy"

jmBoekestein
07-13-2005, 04:03 PM
What's all the hubbub about anyway?
:curious:

btw, I'd discourage plaf suggestion for the simple fact of dehumanising something as human as art...or whatever it's supposed to be.

ashakarc
07-13-2005, 06:06 PM
I am not going to comment about this change which is rather very disturbing to my taste, characterizing debates as "intellectual masturbation", and eliminating philosophy discussions from the forum simply by assuming everyone here is ignorant. No offended but disappointed. Hey, life goes on :shrug:

I have a little suggestion to make:

To encourage people publish tutorials, they should be given space for their post in the form of a publication, not a mere thread filled with jargon of praise. Any tutorial of any value is an intellectual property of the author and credits to the author should be maintained as such. Threads, in a away are designed for discussions back and forth, which is a good complimentary way to a tutorial for Q&A followup. My suggestion is to let the tutorial run on an uninterrupted page, printable, and clearly categorized in its class of other tutorials, and include a link from within to the discussion thread for that specific tutorial.

I am personally willing to put some tutorials from a designer's perspective related to art, composition, culture, and theory, but want to preserve the copyrights to them too.

Stahlberg
07-13-2005, 06:29 PM
eliminating philosophy discussions from the forum simply by assuming everyone here is ignorant.

Not "everyone", and not "ignorant", rather - "most posters" and "ignorant on the subject of philosophy". You seem to be unusual in that you seem to have had some kind of education in the subject. Most of us haven't. :)

As for your other suggestion, why not simply host the tutorial somewhere and post a link to it (like I did)? What is your concern regarding copyright? Publishing it in an easily printable format is going to be easier to 'rip' than posting it as separate images and text in a thread. Or do you think there's more of a legal leg to stand on, depending on the format you publish in? I'm no lawyer, but I really don't think so... theft is still theft, whether the object is stolen from you in another guise...

ashakarc
07-13-2005, 07:02 PM
Not "everyone", and not "ignorant", rather - "most posters" and "ignorant on the subject of philosophy". You seem to be unusual in that you seem to have had some kind of education in the subject. Most of us haven't. :)

As for your other suggestion, why not simply host the tutorial somewhere and post a link to it (like I did)? What is your concern regarding copyright? Publishing it in an easily printable format is going to be easier to 'rip' than posting it as separate images and text in a thread. Or do you think there's more of a legal leg to stand on, depending on the format you publish in? I'm no lawyer, but I really don't think so... theft is still theft, whether the object is stolen from you in another guise...
Nah, theft is not my prime concern at all. It is about making the information easily accessible and clearly organised. When put in a thread format, they tend to be a bit chaotic and hard to find. Take a classroom format as an example, the lecturer and in real time presents the information, followed up by discussions, but if the educational process is asynchronous, they will need to put the lecture in the form of a handout, and that is precisely what I mean. In return for this order in presenting the material, the author will need to have his/her material recognised as an intellectual property that could be referenced and credited for in other publications. The legal concerns are not mine either. I appreciate the fact that many publish these tutorials on their personal web site as part of their giving back to society and self promoting in a positive way, but publishing it here with associated link to a discussion thread to it is more accessible and permanent. And by the way, I've always referred my students to your site for this matter ;]

In fact, if we want to classify the information in the form of knowledge, there are plenty of classes that don't necessarily fall under 'tutorial' category. Tips, techniques, and how to's are not really tutorials by themselves, rather part of it. Take your tutorial for example about the method of coloring a painting, you describe a process, acknowledge differences, and conclude a method. By itself is very useful and organised. If someone needs it, they will find it.

I understand that the demographics here are mostly beginner to intermediate, and for this very reason I am asking for more organised format of delivery. Cheers

Rebeccak
07-13-2005, 07:42 PM
Lunatique and Stahlberg,

No worries :) ~ thanks for understanding about my wanting to stay in the WIP forum. Stahlberg, you are right about it being a familiarity thing, but also I just believe that that's where I belong within the CGTalk universe.

It's surreal to go from being a Noob to being debated over by two pillars of the CGTalk community, but I have appreciated everything that has been said here.

Looking forward to a great experience with CGTalk! :)

~Rebeccak

Amadeus001
07-13-2005, 08:37 PM
Hey, guys. I'm thinking that this is being made a little more complicated than it needs to be. Here's my quick and dirty solutions:

1. Since the "Discussions/Debates" subjects are obviously popular, they should stay as they are. Why not just add a "Tutorials/Learning/Whatever" sub-forum and sticky it to the top? It will be easy to find, plus a person wanting to learn to paint "clouds" would just need to search in that sub-forum instead of the whole thing.

2. Most experienced artists that I've known, think of themselves as "good, but still learning". Thus, they may not think of themselves as a teacher to others. So to get them to write something up, why not have the forum moderators invite some of these artists to do so? Even if it's a couple of helpful tips, it's still something. And having the invitation coming from more established artists will tend to lend more weight to the request.

My 2 cents on the matter. Hope it helps.

snowkiwi
07-13-2005, 09:36 PM
Hey Luna, its not official but the 'Master in the Humorous' of Expose' 2 Brian Despain said that maybe he could squeeze in a tutorial for us when he has time in August. :)

Widler
07-13-2005, 11:10 PM
I'm not trying to be a bee in anyone's bonnet here, but this whole moving threads around thing has kinda confused me. I just started hanging around the "WIP/Critique 2d, Illustration and Concept Art forum"

I can see why some tutorials/educational methods/techniques and such seem like they would belong in the "Art Techniques and Theories Forum" but once you start adding in one , Like Rebecca's, then you'd feel the need to start adding learning threads from all the other forums. That's very confusing.

To be honest, i love cg talk and find the format quite easy to follow, however i too sometimes feel i'm swimming for those tutorials that i know are "in here somewhere" Something that could simplify things would just be to add the word "tutorials" or "instruction" after the "WIP/Critique". Really instruction or tutorials are kind of implied really by the word critique. Then perhaps just have "TUTORIAL - enter tutorial here" as a sticky at the top of each forum category.
This way we always know where the present tutorials are.

If i'm making this even more difficult please slap me silly, and feel free to delete!!
I hate to be one of those people wasting others time.

Thx for your time!

MrPositive
07-14-2005, 02:23 AM
[QUOTE=Amadeus001]

1. Since the "Discussions/Debates" subjects are obviously popular, they should stay as they are. Why not just add a "Tutorials/Learning/Whatever" sub-forum and sticky it to the top? It will be easy to find, plus a person wanting to learn to paint "clouds" would just need to search in that sub-forum instead of the whole thing.

QUOTE]

I completely agree with this..............the only thing missing from this site is some fun tutorials from the amazing list of talents that frequent the site. I feel like I'm usually wading through threads to find the tutorial I need and the search section doesnt help much either. Yes there is an offsite tutorial section but it hardly ever gets updated with any new content (had to wait 2 months to see the MaxKor demo) which leaves so many things out that it's really just a recap of some of things he did. If the site is truely about spreading the art word then a strong tutorials section is needed that is continually updated and well organized. By the way after seeing the majority of the 3D entries in the Master and Servant contest (except for maybe the top 10) the whole community could use improvement in some areas. If cgtalk focussed some time on a well thought out tutorials section the rest of these almost worthless 3D sites could just go away for the betterment of the cg community. By the way the guy who said changing the site around is bad is crazy because all you need to do is look at successful sites like ESPN.com to see that change is good. Just this year they added ESPN Motion, Toolbar, 360, and online fantasy football. Let's just say that the 600 million dollar profit they made last year is more than all the big three corporations of NBC, CBS, and ABC, combined. In essence, change is good. By the way, this site became one of my all time favorite sites when the Meet the Artists section was implemented and adding an improved, daily updated, tutorial section would only solidify it's ranking in my book as the most comprehensive cg site on the internet.

Lunatique
07-14-2005, 04:33 AM
All the important tutorials are collected in a sticky thread, and I think that's pretty easy for people to navigate, no? A single thread that contains no chatting, only links: http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=226083

And all the cool threads/sub-forums in the WIP 2D forum are collected here for people that don't know to go looking in that forum (WIP 2D doesn't sound like a place for that type of stuff, that's why I was concerned that many won't know to look in there): http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=258168

Mr. Positive - the word "tutorial" is in the forum description. Adding it to the actual forum title would make it a bit too long. I think "techniques" is something that most would associate with tutorials.

plaf - The one problem I see is that some people might have valuable things to say, but can't draw/paint/model worth a damn (they are just learning, or have more knowledge than actual skill), and then they'd not say anything because they have nothing worthwhile to post. Or, people will be forced to post a lot of crappy art just to earn the right to speak. I don't know about you, but for many people, having to look at a long stream of substandarnd art can get a bit bleak--like that Gallerie Abominate website (http://www.jackals-forge.com/abom.html).

mummey - Well, we don't want to KILL OFF all discussions that aren't tutorials/techniques. We only wanted to balance things out by shifting the focus. The only type of discussions that were getting out of hand and quite unnecessary were the "What Is Art?" type of discussions, because they all just went around in circles, and there are no real answers because it's always just a matter of opinions. Most people just aren't knowledgeable enough about the subject anyway. Other discussions about art history, inspirations, influences..etc are fine--I dig those, because they are informative and great resources.

ashakarc - I agree with Steven--you're one of the few that really knows his stuff. Most others don't and it gets a bit bleak when you read a non-ending stream of posts from people that don't know what they're talking about, yet tries to change the mind of others to see things his way. It's about as bad as listening to a bunch of teenagers talk about the meaning of life.

About the hosting of tutorials thing--I think having a sticky thread that links to the good tutorials is a pretty good solution. The author can choose however he wants to format his tutorial, where to post it..etc, and if we think it's a good tutorial, we add it to the sticky thread.

Remember, most things that happen on the internet forums are some form of compromise, because most involved are volunteers, and we have to balance the time and energy we spend on these things. If we were running a commercial venture (for example, a website that sells services and products), then we could format the hell out of everything and have a very efficient and beautiful system, but as things are, collecting good stuff and putting them in stickies is the best solution for now (and plugging a thread like this to get public awareness). If we get any more organized than that, then we're looking at paying courses like the CGWorkshops where actual organized teaching and interaction takes place.

Amadeus001 - that's actually not a bad idea--to have a subforum for tutorials/learnings only. But having good tutorials in the sticky thread is also a good solution too.

snowkiwi - That would be awesome. It would be great to have him do a tutorial.

Widler - WIP 2D and this forum concentrates on the foundations of art and drawing/painting--not 3D-centric stuff. Seperate 3D disciplines have their own forums and own systems for doing things.

Mr. Positive - People are encouraged to submit links to great tutorials they come across, so we can add them to the sticky thread. In that same sticky thread, the good tutorials posted at cgtalk are added as we come across them. The fact is, how many people actually looked at all the links we provided in that sticky thread? I assure you if someone actually went through all the links in there, they'd have had the equivalent of 4 or more years of art school for free. Having new tutorials added is not the key--the key is to have "good" tutorials that can really help someone learn and improve. Most people don't even bother reading through the Loomis books, and that's the best thing available for free that equates to 4 years of art school education. But people just gloss over them and keep on hunting for some kind of miracle tutorial that will give them instant mastery as an artist. As I noted in the sticky thread, there is no such thing as a miracle tutorial. You have to actually sit down and go through the exercises in these tutorials, one step at a time. You put in the time, and you will learn and improve.

Widler
07-14-2005, 04:40 AM
orginally from lunatique

"Widler - WIP 2D and this forum concentrates on the foundations of art and drawing/painting--not 3D-centric stuff. Seperate 3D disciplines have their own forums and own systems for doing things".

-----------------------------------


I'm not sure i mentioned 3d at all in my previous post. All i was trying to do was help suggest ideas for how to organize forum threads.

ashakarc
07-14-2005, 06:07 AM
About the hosting of tutorials thing--I think having a sticky thread that links to the good tutorials is a pretty good solution. The author can choose however he wants to format his tutorial, where to post it..etc, and if we think it's a good tutorial, we add it to the sticky thread.

It's not a bad idea, rather a good compromise. In that case, I would suggest adding some excellent resources on the "Making of .." on CGNetworks that relate to painting to this sticky.

Back to my suggestion: The reason why I asked for more solid format of delivery and publication, because I envision CGTalk as an entity that not only accommodates amateurs and professionals, but scholars too. There has been talks on conferences organised by CGNetworks when CGSociety was first introduced. I thought to myself it will be great to have a venue to publish papers that relates to art and CG. Personally, I've published in many international conferences, ACADIA, ECAADE, ACSA, and all these prestigious conferences were related to architectural design and computing, but non has the richness and the amount of subscribers as CGTalk, yet they are cutting edge research papers with big names behind them in the design world.

I will look forward to see these forums take the next leap accommodating the next generation of pros who have something to say in addition to what they show :)

mummey
07-14-2005, 06:50 AM
hey lunatique,

I'm not saying those should be killed off, I'm just saying the description in the main page is a little long. Well, and also to be careful. Forums that try to be everything end up being about nothing.

MrPositive
07-14-2005, 10:59 AM
Mr. Positive - People are encouraged to submit links to great tutorials they come across, so we can add them to the sticky thread. In that same sticky thread, the good tutorials posted at cgtalk are added as we come across them. The fact is, how many people actually looked at all the links we provided in that sticky thread? I assure you if someone actually went through all the links in there, they'd have had the equivalent of 4 or more years of art school for free. Having new tutorials added is not the key--the key is to have "good" tutorials that can really help someone learn and improve. Most people don't even bother reading through the Loomis books, and that's the best thing available for free that equates to 4 years of art school education. But people just gloss over them and keep on hunting for some kind of miracle tutorial that will give them instant mastery as an artist. As I noted in the sticky thread, there is no such thing as a miracle tutorial. You have to actually sit down and go through the exercises in these tutorials, one step at a time. You put in the time, and you will learn and improve.

I agree with what your are saying but the biggest problem for myself and my students is that no one likes to wade through a 100 link tutorial list with no organization. As well, a separate title for tutorials would encourage people to post high quality tutorials/techniques instead of just throwing some in a sticky thread. Not bashing at all here but hoping for continued improvement on the site, from someone who visits daily (and forces his 200 students to visit too :)). I still feel like I have to go to highend3D or total 3D for tutorials and many lack the talent of artists on this very site. I'm not saying tutorials are the end all be all but every once in awhile you find that 'one' tutorial that makes a project come together. For example, I just completed a huge animation for a graphics convention and I needed some butterflies to flutter across the screen in Maya. I searched this entire site, your sticky tutorial section, everywhere and couldn't find a thing. I ended up figuring it out myself (took me about 10 hours trying five different workable methods - sort of) and a day later found a thread barried in the Maya section that said how to do it in five easy steps. Now why couldnt that have been encouraged to be placed in a tutorial section that is organized with one title saying "Instance Particle Geometry tutorial" under the "Particles" section under the "Maya Tutorials" section. Am I the only one who sees this? *hits self in head with hammer* :)

Edit: What's even cooler is if the tutorials could be rated upon by the system you already have in place.....which should validate the quality for that respective tutorial.

MrPositive
07-14-2005, 11:18 AM
hey lunatique,

I'm not saying those should be killed off, I'm just saying the description in the main page is a little long. Well, and also to be careful. Forums that try to be everything end up being about nothing.

Actually I respectfully disagree with this (that cliche works for some things, but not online internet sites (examples: ESPN, Rottentomatoes, IMDB, etc.).......When I go online for cg I want my one stop Walmart store. It's not like this site is stretching itself thin when it expands or grows into new areas considering it has a 200,000 user base (can't wait for half a million, should be a big cgtalk party...). Sites like 3D luvr, Total3D, 3DCafe and even highend3D aren't hacking it because they do not offer everything the user, audience, visitor, my students need like cgtalk does (it's simple really, when I can talk directly to the guy who animated gollum I dont think I'll be visiting cglinks.com any longer :)). Sure a site cannot cover every nook and cranny but some sections simply need to be there and tutorials is a big one when it comes to cg IMO. I was part of a 3D site and this was the reason for it's eventual downfall. Actually the better statement is "forums that are unorganized to the point that it's difficult to find what the user is looking for, fail".

Edit: I'd also love to see a real time chat section....which I'm a little shocked isn't on the site. We can dream..............Can you imagine being able to ask Victore Navone a question live or discuss sticking points in a software immediately instead of having to wait a day for a response. ESPN added a talk to a journalist or sports star chat section and I got all giddy when my post to Andre Agassi was immediately replied to by the tennis star........I'd probably freak out and not leave the computer or eat for a month if there was a live Maya chat section.......
I guess this should be a different thread for a different day.........

dioxide
07-15-2005, 06:55 PM
Edit: I'd also love to see a real time chat section....which I'm a little shocked isn't on the site. We can dream..............Can you imagine being able to ask Victore Navone a question live or discuss sticking points in a software immediately instead of having to wait a day for a response.

Can you imagine Victore Navone replying to 200 thousand users? No you probably cant.

Lunatique
07-16-2005, 03:24 AM
Mr. Positive I think you might have been looking in the wrong place for your needed tutorials. For one, the Art Techniques and Theories forum deals with art foundations and drawing/painting--it does not contain 3D-specific information (except about lighting, which is relevant to all artists). There are other forums at cgtalk that deals specifically with various 3D elements, and they most likely all have their own tutorials stickies.

Concerning the realtime chatting of Q&A sessions--I think it's a bad idea like dioxide mentioned. We already have a Q&A section, and it allows the artist ample time to think about the answers and answer the questions in detail. In realtime, you won't get the same detailed reply, as time is limited.

The tutorials in our sticky thread are quite organized into topics. Maybe you were talking about another forum?

And once again, please remember that except for a few, everyone who helps out at cgtalk are volunteers. We all have lives and what we can do for cgtalk is limited. cgtalk is not a school like Gnomon--it is an online community for people to interact. If you are looking for an education site, Gnomon is more likely your bet. But good education comes with a price--you cannot expect to get everything for free, as there is no free lunch in this world--maybe just free snacks.

Stahlberg
07-16-2005, 08:15 AM
The Sticky link thread in this forum is only meant for art basics, such as composition, anatomy, perspective etc. Not for dynamic particle scripting or whatever. As such, the existing links here have been very well screened and selected from among hundreds, and organized into categories, with a brief description for each one. We thought about thumbnails, but it didn't seem cost-effective.

Can you imagine being able to ask Victore Navone a question live or discuss sticking points in a software immediately instead of having to wait a day for a response.

Isn't that a bit selfish - wanting the biggest names in the business to be available live to answer questions that 99 times of 100 can be answered by any intermediate to advanced user? That's what we have the forums for. I mean, seriously, put yourself in Victor's shoes for a moment. :)
And usually you'll wait MUCH less than a day for your response. Just go to any forum and check the average time between the first post and the first answer. Then there's the fact that you may sometimes get even better answers from unknown people than from the big pros.

danielh68
07-17-2005, 12:03 AM
I have a question about the Art Techniques and Tutorial sections. Forgive me if this topic has already been discussed. Anyhow, I have noticed that many of the tutorial threads are interrupted by trivial postings by other members. A few may be relevant, but most fall under the category of accolades and smiley faces. Don't get me wrong, praise is a good thing. However, in the interest of education it seems rather disruptive and hinders the learning flow of current and future users. In some cases, one has to rummage through a plethora of posts to find the tutorial's counterpart. If I'm a minority on this issue, I'll shut up. Although, if many feel the same way I do, why not dispose of unwanted threads for the sake of accessibility and ease of learning?

Another thing, I just took a glance at Nebezial's tutorial (very nice by the way) and thought why it doesn't fall under Art Techniques and Theories Forum (http://www.cgtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=166)? Perhaps, I've been chewing too much peyote, but I swear it's under WIP. I don't know, it just doesn't make sense to me.

Thanks.

Widler
07-17-2005, 02:21 AM
in response to danielh68

i pretty much agree with you in regards to tutorials being interupted by replies, but if your referring to the digital painting tutorial "MODERN MASTERS: Digital Painting (Photoshop) Tutorial By Nebezial" i would think there are several places this belongs, application specific/Photoshop for example, and yes even perhaps Art Techniques and Theories Forum (http://www.cgtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=166). There already is a sticky of tutorials in that forum.

My point is, i know your not directly trying to, but there is no point in critisising the moderators, i was doing it myself then i realized one moderator doesn't have free reign to start changing other forums (atleast that's my understanding)

Instead why not just suggest that this is an excellent tutorial and can it please be included in the Art Techniques and Tutorials sticky and maybe it will get done. As well, it doesn't matter where these tutorials actually reside on cgtalk it's just a matter of being able to find links to them in the appropriate forums.

Lunatique
07-17-2005, 05:04 AM
]

Another thing, I just took a glance at Nebezial's tutorial (very nice by the way) and thought why it doesn't fall under Art Techniques and Theories Forum (http://www.cgtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=166)? Perhaps, I've been chewing too much peyote, but I swear it's under WIP. I don't know, it just doesn't make sense to me.

[/size]

To tell you the truth, I have no idea. I have asked in that thread that it be moved (I can't move it since I'm not a forum leader for that forum).

danielh68
07-17-2005, 06:10 AM
Just to clarify, my comments are more observations than criticisms. It just seems more sensible to have:

A. Tutorials presented first, then comments afterwards or on another thread.

B. Concerning the Tutorial By Nebezial, although he works in PS, his tutorial is not software specific. So far it deals with technique and theory, which would meet the criteria of Techniques and Art Theory. His tutorial is even on the front page with the subtext "Lesson 003: Shading". If that isn't a tutorial, then I don't know what is.

These comments are not my frustrations, they're merely common-sense observations. http://www.cgtalk.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Lunatique, by the way, I had always assumed you were a all-around moderator until now. I guess my presumptions was based merely on you constant contributions and activity on the board.

Lunatique
07-17-2005, 06:27 AM
Just to clarify, my comments are more observations than criticisms. It just seems more sensible to have:

A. Tutorials presented first, then comments afterwards or on another thread.

B. Concerning the Tutorial By Nebezial, although he works in PS, his tutorial is not software specific. So far it deals with technique and theory, which would meet the criteria of Techniques and Art Theory. His tutorial is even on the front page with the subtext "Lesson 003: Shading". If that isn't a tutorial, then I don't know what is.

These comments are not my frustrations, they're merely common-sense observations. http://www.cgtalk.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Lunatique, by the way, I had always assumed you were a all-around moderator until now. I guess my presumptions was based merely on you constant contributions and activity on the board.


Actually, if read Nebezial's tutorial thread, you'll see the both Roberto and Rebecca stated why that tutorial belongs in that forum when I asked it to be moved, and there's nothing I can do about it. We should just be grateful that cgtalk is alive with activities (Roberto and Rebecca's contribution is much appreciated and respected) and have cool tutorials added.

As far as tutorials being better organized without comments--that'll be hard unless the thread is setup to be closed until all contents are posted, and then reopened. Only forum leaders can do that, so anyone posting tutorials would have to coordinate with a forum leaders to have that done.

Lunatique
07-17-2005, 06:45 AM
From this moment on, please direct any request to have threads moved from the WIP 2D forum to the Art Techniques and Theories forum to Roberto Ortiz and Rebecca. Do not PM me, email, me, or direct these questions to me. I have no power to moved these threads, and Roberto and Rebecca do not want those threads moved. It is not up to me. Thank you.

MrPositive
07-17-2005, 09:16 PM
Cool.....thanks for the responses.

CGTalk Moderation
07-17-2005, 09:16 PM
This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.