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View Full Version : Creating controversy has become an art form


DimensionalPunk
07-03-2005, 12:53 AM
Wasting water to raise awareness of wasting water. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4640965.stm)
Is this artist trying to raise awareness of wasting water or his name? There are many more art pieces becoming well known which seem to be created with the sole intent of creating controversy. There's no doubt this is art but is this the art worlds equivalent to a bad kid who wants attention and doesn't care how he gets it?

JARhead
07-03-2005, 01:48 AM
This may be art, but come on, really.

PerfectBlue
07-03-2005, 07:25 AM
Oh look, the price for his paintings just tripled! :p

ashakarc
07-03-2005, 07:45 AM
DON'T WASTE WATER. DILUTE IT !
Benny Hill Show
Art has a message to convey. The controversy in art is not coming from the art itself, rather from the audience who can't read the original message incoming from the art work. Who to blame? No one..it is the nature of things you know ;]

DimensionalPunk
07-03-2005, 08:35 AM
Does anyone think that his piece would be as effective if it recycled a couple liters of water and didn't waste it? Would chopping down a forest make anyone think twice about wasting wood products? I think "mock" art can be a powerful thing but there are ways to do that without contributing to the problem.

ashakarc
07-03-2005, 08:39 AM
Does anyone think that his piece would be as effective if it recycled a couple liters of water and didn't waste it? Would chopping down a forest make anyone think twice about wasting wood products? I think "mock" art can be a powerful thing but there are ways to do that without contributing to the problem.
I agree, but sometimes you need to shout loud to enforce silence !!

paperclip
07-03-2005, 03:15 PM
Previous stunts by Mr McGowan include rolling a monkey nut with his nose to Downing Street to protest against student debt.

I wonder how that is relevant to student debt?
If he feels so strongly about politics, he should become a politician and actually do something about it. All he's doing is just telling people about these things. It's not like student debt is a hidden thing- everyone knows about it....that seems to render this art invalid..it would be much more worthwhile to bring to light something that is hidden rather than just adding his opinion to all the others. Artists who protest against political agendas should take it upon themselves to actually learn about the politics behind it, rather than just complaining about it. Politics, social issues and philosophy should be electives at every art college. This would stop misinformed people complaining about things that they're not doing anything to help anyway. The world doesn't need any more people telling us what we should change, we need more people willing to put their time and money into changing it. Plato said that unless you take time out to research these things for yourself, you are going to become a product of the education which is promoted by the government, which promotes itself. After a while, the population is educated to believe in things which benefit the government. Unless artists start thinking independently and reading practical works in the subjects they're complaining about, nobody will listen to them. Did you ever hear artists being interviewed about the ISSUES they are promoting? Not a chance. It's just their art. That just proves that the entire point of this guy's work is for self promotion.
Why a monkey nut anyway?

PerfectBlue
07-03-2005, 11:57 PM
I agree, but sometimes you need to shout loud to enforce silence !!
Kinda like having sex to save virginity. :hmm:

ashakarc
07-04-2005, 12:11 AM
Kinda like having sex to save virginity. :hmm:
Ah..sarcasim. It's like sex education to the young, it is unfortunate that they lose their innocence, but an effective measure to protect them from STDs and such.

saltydogdesign
07-04-2005, 01:45 AM
I wonder how that is relevant to student debt?
If he feels so strongly about politics, he should become a politician and actually do something about it. All he's doing is just telling people about these things. It's not like student debt is a hidden thing- everyone knows about it....that seems to render this art invalid..it would be much more worthwhile to bring to light something that is hidden rather than just adding his opinion to all the others. Artists who protest against political agendas should take it upon themselves to actually learn about the politics behind it, rather than just complaining about it. Politics, social issues and philosophy should be electives at every art college. This would stop misinformed people complaining about things that they're not doing anything to help anyway. The world doesn't need any more people telling us what we should change, we need more people willing to put their time and money into changing it. Plato said that unless you take time out to research these things for yourself, you are going to become a product of the education which is promoted by the government, which promotes itself. After a while, the population is educated to believe in things which benefit the government. Unless artists start thinking independently and reading practical works in the subjects they're complaining about, nobody will listen to them. Did you ever hear artists being interviewed about the ISSUES they are promoting? Not a chance. It's just their art. That just proves that the entire point of this guy's work is for self promotion.
Why a monkey nut anyway?

Not everyone could, or should, be a politician. I have no problem with artists raising awareness of issues. Not that this particular guy is a genius or anything -- frankly, the article is too thin on details to be of much use. But in any case, look at it like this: Does one's career choice prevent one from engaging in other fields? Of course not. Ideally, *everyone* should engage in politics at some level -- it's called voting, and you don't have to be a politician to do it.

As for government-sponsored education promoting the government, I don't buy that. The governments of most western nations don't (usually) interfere in curriculum, and they'd get basted if they did. Government-sponsored though it may be, education is the cumulative effort of lots of individuals with a wide range of interests and concerns.

Not to pile on you or anything, but where, exactly, did Plato say that? I don't ever remember reading anything quite like that.

paperclip
07-04-2005, 10:05 AM
Amended: Sorry, quote attributed to Plato is actually a quote by Thrasymachus in Plato's Republica. I don't necessarily believe in this quote- it's an interesting opinion though... you must admit that state-sponsored education supports what the state believes though... this is going way OTT so there's no point in pursuing this anyway.

saltydogdesign
07-04-2005, 04:45 PM
Amended: Sorry, quote attributed to Plato is actually a quote by Thrasymachus in Plato's Republica. I don't necessarily believe in this quote- it's an interesting opinion though... you must admit that state-sponsored education supports what the state believes though... this is going way OTT so there's no point in pursuing this anyway.

Sorry, I can't agree with that at all. I went to grad school at the University of Cincinnati, which is a state school. One of my professors was a Marxist, and pretty much all of them leaned strongly toward socialist thought. Neither of those represent "what the state believes in." Moreover, what does the state believe in? It's a state, not a person. Most states have a set of bare principles enshrined in a constitution, but beyond that, what? No school I know of advocates a flat tax or a repeal of abortion rights. Even the basic principles are debated -- otherwise you'd have one stripe of lawyers coming out of the law schools.

You're right, this is getting OT, but your central argument has some weight to anyone who goes to school, which includes CG people. You are saying, essentially, that school limits your horizons. I don't buy that. I believe it is practically self-evident that there is little that can broaden your horizons more -- whether that school be state-sponsored or private, religious, whatever.

paperclip
07-04-2005, 05:38 PM
Schools are heavily funded by the government and many schools follow a government- funded curriculum, programs etc. For example, in America, you are forbidden to talk about Creationism in schools in some states. This is one example of how schools produce people who can think a certain way if they don't do some thinking for themselves. A lot of people wouldn't care enough to do their own research into the things they're taught.
Just my 2c worth.
Anyway, if art is to be taken seriously, the artists should know what they're talking about. That's the crux of my argument....

archerx
07-04-2005, 06:03 PM
Kinda like having sex to save virginity. :hmm:

how do you expect to make more virgins ?

saltydogdesign
07-04-2005, 06:05 PM
Schools are heavily funded by the government and many schools follow a government- funded curriculum, programs etc. For example, in America, you are forbidden to talk about Creationism in schools in some states. This is one example of how schools produce people who can think a certain way if they don't do some thinking for themselves. A lot of people wouldn't care enough to do their own research into the things they're taught.
Just my 2c worth.
Anyway, if art is to be taken seriously, the artists should know what they're talking about. That's the crux of my argument....

Fair enough, but I don't think schools turn out sausages. People get their ideas from a lot of sources, and schools are just one -- even if they are not doing research, people hold plenty of ideas which are counter to the conventional wisdom. Something like 75% of Americans believe in angels, which, last I checked, are not on the state curriculum.

In any case, back to the beginning -- I don't know if this guy knows his stuff or not. The article is too slim on the details of his work, focusing solely on his conflict with the water people.

paperclip
07-04-2005, 06:25 PM
Fair enough, but I don't think schools turn out sausages. People get their ideas from a lot of sources, and schools are just one -- even if they are not doing research, people hold plenty of ideas which are counter to the conventional wisdom. Something like 75% of Americans believe in angels, which, last I checked, are not on the state curriculum.

In any case, back to the beginning -- I don't know if this guy knows his stuff or not. The article is too slim on the details of his work, focusing solely on his conflict with the water people.

People would be influenced by their families' beliefs and the popular media also- - and I'm not saying that they are turning out sausages. Most people are intelligent beings who can think for themselves. If they didn't, that would be something else. Think about the type of person who would be produced if they were influenced solely by popular media and the school curriculum. That is why the ability to think for yourself is important and is also why parental influence is important for children...

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