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Nyx2095
06-29-2005, 11:31 PM
Hello fellow CG enthusiasts,

I am new here and I come looking for help from 3D modelling hobbyists. I did not post this thread in the job posting forum because of the hobbyist nature of our project, which is a collaborative effort, and not a paid job. I know that many hobbyist projects have been proven disappointing for many people, but ours is very different, and very serious, I can guarantee that. Please forgive any grammatical mistakes or strange-sounding sentences I make, my main language is French.

I am the leader of a game development project that has now been going for 4 years. My project is called xGameProject (http://www.xgameproject.com). This project is a collaborative effort to gain knowledge and experience about game development while having fun. Its secondary goal is to make ourself a name in the area and to improve our portfolio. We do not pretend to be any kind of company, or that there will be pay "when-the-game-is-commercially-released". The game will be released for free, which might actually help it gain popularity. This project is for enthusiasts, but it is a very serious effort. One of the most important things I understood 4 years ago, is that a very important factor in succeeding is to never give up.

So far, our project has been focusing on 3D engine development, but no playable game has been created. We are now at a point where it has become our goal to create a playable (and hopefully enjoyable) game. For this, we need help, especially in the are of 3D modelling. However, if you are interested in helping us in other areas, the door is not closed, and you can contact me to discuss the possibilities. Since the main goal of this project is learning, we are not asking for any particular skill level. All that we ask is that you have the will to improve yourself and the will to complete a game with us. We do not ask for financial involvement of any kind, nor for any special contract to be signed. This is designed to be a risk-free learning experience for everyone.

I haven't told you much about the game so far. The game will be a 3D multiplayer action game with some RPG elements (persistant characters, NPC interaction, accumulation of items, formation of persistant teams). It will be set in the near-future (2045) in an ultra-modern city called Delta City. The theme will be centered around the corruption of the corporations which run this privately-owned city. Each team that participates in a game will have its own HQ building in the virtual city, and will get to accomplish missions in team (possibly more than one at a time). What is very particular is that the entire city and all mission objectives will be procedurally generated at random. This means that everytime a player joins a new game, the environment will be entirely different. The objective is to keep a certain element of novelty all the time, instead of always playing the same boring maps, and to speed up the development of maps. I will keep this overview very brief to keep the thread short, but I hope this was enough to spark your interest.

I felt the need to add a final note. As I said earlier, this project is designed to be risk-free for everyone. Some people often frown when they see hobbyist projects asking for help, because it obviously means there is no pay. I know there are many professionals who visit these forums, and who largely value their time. However, our project is not about exploitation, or free labour. It is a collaborative effort. Nobody on the team gets paid. I myself, have been the most involved from the start, and I get no financial benefit in exchange for the 20+ hours a week I put in this project. This project is simply not based on financial compensations: its goal is to encourage learning. Everyone in the team works together to reach a common goal. Since this project is a hobbyist project, and most members are students, we understand if things take some time to get done and we do not try to push any hard deadlines, or make people work under pressure.

If you are interested, you can add me on MSN (roue(at)sympatico.ca), you can e-mail me (roue(at)sympatico.ca), you can add me on ICQ (59216599), or you can add me on AIM using my ICQ number. Alternatively, you can post on our online forums, or you can visit our chat (#xgameproject on irc.afternet.org). For more information, you can visit our website at (http://www.xgameproject.com).

- Maxime C. aka "Max Payne"

Kanga
06-30-2005, 12:35 AM
Well the English is pretty darn good, wish my French was that fluent!

The message is loud and clear.
I can't afford the time myself cause I am also busy with a game in collaberation with an engine geek friend of mine,.... however I wish you all the best and this sort of thing is a great proving ground for people who want to get into the industry. Actually brilliant stuff for the portfolio.

May the force be with you my friend:thumbsup:.

Windmill
06-30-2005, 09:23 AM
Yes I agree, no problems with your english, very articulate

I hope you find who your looking for, It can be hard to break through the skepticism that surrounds independent projects (believe me I know)

Nyx2095
07-08-2005, 03:40 PM
I hope you find who your looking for, It can be hard to break through the skepticism that surrounds independent projects (believe me I know)

Well, thank you both for the encouragements. I don't think the problem is quite the skepticism, however. Its very rare we have ever got flame posts in our recruitment threads, but we don't get many replies either. People prefer to post replies to flame newbies that come up with the classical "I have a completely revolutionary and original game idea involving edges and dwarves in a fantasy world and want to create an MMORPG out of it even though I have absolutely no computer skills or game development experience whatsoever".

Either that, or we see large teams of artists join MMORPG game development projects, or HL2 modifications, etc, even though nobody on the team has any programming experience. They believe it will be easy for them to use a free (irrlicht) or low-cost (torque) game engine to create an MMORPG, and do not realise that these engines are simply not suitable for large-scale games (or not suitable for any games at all). Out of the hundreds of startup projects I have seen in the last few years, only one or two were completed. What typically happens is that those large teams of modelers create huge amounts of models and concept art, but they are never used. Eventually the team leader comes to realise that making a game is more than a matter of shoving large amounts of artwork in a magical 3D engine, and that its too big of an undertaking. At this point, the project usually collapses within a month or two. The artists then feel like they were betrayed, and often abandon the idea of game development altogether.

We haven't completed a game yet, but we're on the right track. Our second engine was much better than our first. It was already suitable to make a Quake-style game out of it. The reason we didn't pursue its development further is mostly that, we didn't want to create another Quake clone. I always had ambitions for something more inspiring. Our third 3D engine can only be better than what we have made before, and I feel like this time is the good time (third time is a charm ;)). The fact that our team has been standing for 4 years (and has vastly improved in every aspect) should say enough about our dedication, and should help convince someone that our game project is not just going to vanish in thin air tommorow.

TaGGeD
07-08-2005, 04:23 PM
Either that, or we see large teams of artists join MMORPG game development projects, or HL2 modifications, etc, even though nobody on the team has any programming experience. They believe it will be easy for them to use a free (irrlicht) or low-cost (torque) game engine to create an MMORPG, and do not realise that these engines are simply not suitable for large-scale games (or not suitable for any games at all).

I know exactly what you mean. I joined a team a few months ago and we were doing pretty good. I was just beginning 3d at that time but I wanted to join to learn and develope my skills. Everything went great... all the models were done and the only thing left was programming, however, there were no programmers. The lead director decided to use irrlicht, but he knew nothing about it so the project was abandoned and all the work went down the drain.

I would love to join, however I am only 14, and I am not incredibly good at 3d. I only have about 6 months under my belt and that is with a free program called Blender 3d. However, I know use Wings 3d as well, but I'm sure there are many others that use commercial packages such as Maya or 3ds max that can do much better jobs than me.

Anyways, good luck with the project. I read your overview and I thought it was very well done. Looks like a promising game.

Nyx2095
07-08-2005, 04:51 PM
[/quote]I would love to join, however I am only 14, and I am not incredibly good at 3d. I only have about 6 months under my belt and that is with a free program called Blender 3d. However, I know use Wings 3d as well, but I'm sure there are many others that use commercial packages such as Maya or 3ds max that can do much better jobs than me.[/quote]

Maybe I should take down the minimum age to 14 like it was before eh?

The main reason I started that is because many younger teenagers have proven too immature to work on the project. Its certainly not the case of all of them, however. There is also the fact that much of the things required to work on the programming are not learned until 16-17 (higher level math classes). Yeah, I actually already made an exception for another 14 years old modeler, and I think I could do it for you as well, and simply take our age restriction back to 14. I don't want our team to look like an elitist clan of some sort... I believe we should give a chance to those who are really interested, and it shouldn't be that hard to filter out the more problematic ones.

We don't put much restrictions on the skill level. One of the guys helping us is very very new. He didn't know how to texture his models, and had alot of trouble with his 3D editor. Now he's completed and textured his first simple model, which is very simple, but will still be useful in the game. If you feel you can make simple models (simple objects, some weapons) for a start, and you are able to texture models, or at least willing to learn how, then there could be a place for you on the team.

I know exactly what you mean. I joined a team a few months ago and we were doing pretty good. I was just beginning 3d at that time but I wanted to join to learn and develope my skills. Everything went great... all the models were done and the only thing left was programming, however, there were no programmers. The lead director decided to use irrlicht, but he knew nothing about it so the project was abandoned and all the work went down the drain.

Heheh, I just mentioned that engine as an example, I didn't know how close I was. Its something I see every week. I have nothing against peolpe having their own dreams for a game, but it makes me somewhat sad. Its been so incredibly hard for us to recruit a few modelers, no matter how serious we were about succeeding, but they all joined other projects. Those who bring great hope but can't ever complete their projects are doing harm to the hobbyist development community, in my opinion. First, they are taking people away from projects that could actually succeed. Second, they discourage many people from ever doing hobbyist game development again, and finally, they reduce the credibility of hobbyists like us.

When I started this project, I proposed myself as the leader, and had a relatively low degree of programming experience. Nevertheless, I did have some experience with Quake 2 and HL2 mods. I also made sure I was convinced enough to never abandon the project, and finish a working game. Since then, things have only been getting better for us. Our project is much better organized than it once was, and we have all the development resources we need. We also have some very reliable people that have been on the team since the very beggining.

TaGGeD
07-08-2005, 08:08 PM
The main reason I started that is because many younger teenagers have proven too immature to work on the project. Its certainly not the case of all of them, however. There is also the fact that much of the things required to work on the programming are not learned until 16-17 (higher level math classes).

I definitely understand that. I know a couple of teenagers around my age who are just out of their minds. They are very immature and don't take anything seriously. I doubt that I will do any programming anyway... I know the very basics of C++ but I doubt that would help.



We don't put much restrictions on the skill level. One of the guys helping us is very very new. He didn't know how to texture his models, and had alot of trouble with his 3D editor. Now he's completed and textured his first simple model, which is very simple, but will still be useful in the game. If you feel you can make simple models (simple objects, some weapons) for a start, and you are able to texture models, or at least willing to learn how, then there could be a place for you on the team.

That's great. I'd be more than happy to join then. I was hoping to start something to keep working on my 3d. I was going for an animation but I would rather join your team than that. I just like working with other people.

I can do fairly complex models... just not any characters. I'm not very good at texturing but am alright... getting better.



Heheh, I just mentioned that engine as an example, I didn't know how close I was. Its something I see every week. I have nothing against peolpe having their own dreams for a game, but it makes me somewhat sad. Its been so incredibly hard for us to recruit a few modelers, no matter how serious we were about succeeding, but they all joined other projects. Those who bring great hope but can't ever complete their projects are doing harm to the hobbyist development community, in my opinion. First, they are taking people away from projects that could actually succeed. Second, they discourage many people from ever doing hobbyist game development again, and finally, they reduce the credibility of hobbyists like us.

Yea, I was kind of disappointed and didn't want to join anything else after that project went down. I was just afraid everything else would go down just the same. I do want to join your team though. You seem to be on top of everything and the others on the team are mature and reliable as you said. I would love to become part of that.

Also, I am really good at making websites. I know CSS, HTML, and PHP & MYSQL. So I can create websites if necessary.

Nyx2095
07-08-2005, 09:01 PM
Good to see you are interested. I invite you to visite our forums and post about yourself and your creations (theres a link to our forums in the left menu at www.xgameproject.com, under community). We won't force you to make character models (many modelers are very reluctant to do it). In fact, we let you pick what you want to model from a list, or propose items that could contribute to the game.

There are no plans for a new website at the moment, but once we redo it, it will most likely be entirely coded in PHP, using a CSS stylesheet, with a mysql database to store all the information. Thats in a bit of time, however. At the moment, I consider our current site sufficiently functional (things can always be better, but it works fine for our current needs).

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