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Rebeccak
06-27-2005, 02:19 AM
SPECIAL NOTE - posted 1/23/06:

SINCE THIS IS LARGELY A CLOSED THREAD, FOR THOSE INTERESTED IN FURTHER EXPLORING GESTURE, PLEASE SEE THE FOLLOWING (ACTIVE) THREAD:

Here we explore the Concept of Gesture and there are many useful exercises. Frankly, the Beginner's Lounge is probably more useful at this point than this one.

Beginners' Lounge (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=297229)
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=297229


http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Demo_001_Imge_1.jpg

REBECCA KIMMEL'S Anatomy Review 001: GESTURE


Welcome to the inaugural thread of Rebecca Kimmel’s Anatomy Review. Hopefully this will be one of many "tutorials" that I will be writing about the core concepts concerning drawing the human figure in an artistically anatomical way.

But first let me tell you a bit about myself -- I graduated with honors from the Art Center College of Design having studied Illustration. I studied under the popular teachers Harry Carmean, Burne Hogarth, and Steve Huston among many others. I have always had the interest in teaching figurative drawing and artistic anatomy, and I am thankful to Roberto Ortiz for presenting me with this unique and special opportunity. So bear with me as this is a fledgling teaching attempt J

So bring your drawing pads, sketch books, your wacoms and your pencils & pens, and let’s start drawing. :)


http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Demo_001_Imge_2.jpg

Part I: GESTURE

Gesture drawings may seem basic, but their importance cannot be overlooked. Gesture is the heart and soul of a drawing – without first establishing the clean, economical sweep of lines (and subtle shading) to quickly define the human form in its entirety, an artist drawing from a model (or reference) can quickly become lost. Beginners tend to focus narrowly on details, and never establish the full figure. It is critical when drawing to focus instead on the BIG PICTURE.

The BIG PICTURE is about establishing several main components of the figure quickly. These major components are:




The direction the head is facing – this can be established with a simple sphere and a few lines denoting the central axis and the axis of the eyes, nose, and mouth.
The direction the ribcage is facing – this can be established by finding the pit of the neck (the space between the clavicles and the sternum).
The direction the pelvis is facing – this can be established by finding the line of symmetry which bisects the pelvic area.
The center line of the body – this is an average of an imaginary line which can be thought to run from the pit of the neck, down the sternum and rib cage, down the pelvis, and to the base of of the feet.
The shape of the ribcage and pelvis are, next to the head, the most important shapes to establish. A modified "peanut" shape can be used in every figure you draw to establish their combined average shape.
The average flow of the limbs – arms and legs are only to be established after the head direction, rib cage and pelvis direction, and center line of the body are established. They are, surprisingly, the LAST major feature which you should establish when creating a gesture drawing. Limbs can be expressed quickly with simple directional lines, and then augmented with a simple system of conical (cone) shapes to add mass and form.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Demo_001_Imge_3.jpg

RECAP: WHAT TO ESTABLISH IN A GESTURE DRAWING:

Direction of HEAD
Direction of RIBCAGE
Direction of PELVIS
CENTER LINE OF BODY
Flow of LIMBS
Note: Gesture Drawings are drawings that take only up to 2 minutes to complete.

FINAL NOTES:

So that’s it. Go now, pick that sketchbook up, and practice drawing GESTURES. My advice is to do several and then pick the best one to post here.

YOU HAVE ONE WEEK TO POST YOUR BEST PIECE (GESTURE DRAWING).


GENERAL RULES:

Once I have posted my lesson it will be your turn:

Post a drawing based on the topic or body part covered in this lesson. You may use a model (preferred) or photo reference.


A couple of times a month, a new thread will be posted on the WIP/Critique: 2D, Illustrations and Concept Art (http://www.cgtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=31) called:REBECCA KIMMEL'S Anatomy Review [ID]: "Thread Title"







For example:







REBECCA KIMMEL'S Anatomy Review 001: GESTURE







This will be the CORE thread, created by Rebecca Kimmel, where the lessons will be posted along with the FINAL pieces done by the participants.


This will be the only thread where artwork will be posted. Comments WILL be allowed on the thread.
(In short, when an artist wants to show his or her drawing based on the lesson, he or she just has to post a reply to the thread.)

Each entry will have:

An original piece done after the topic has been picked.
The artwork done by the participant based on the latest class.
And some more rules:

All artwork must have the following words written on them: (c) 2005 YOUR NAME
At the end of the week, I will pick up to 4 pieces of my choosing and will review them. My advice: KEEP IT SIMPLE


You are encouraged to use MODELS but if you cannot you can use PHOTO reference.
At the end of the week, I will pick up to 4 pieces of my choosing and will review them. My advice: KEEP IT SIMPLE.

All text and images posted on this lesson are © 2005, Rebecca KimmelGood luck

-Roberto and Rebecca

DISCLAIMER: The creator of this thread, Roberto Ortiz, Rebecca Kimmel, CGNetworks and CGTALK are not responsible for what happens during these classes. Participants are posting under their own accord and their actions are their own. The aforementioned parties of Roberto Ortiz, Rebecca Kimmel, CGNetworks and CGTALK are in no way responsible for their actions and are thus not liable in any way.



____________________________________________________________________________

EDIT: PER PEOPLES' REQUESTS, HERE ARE SOME USEFUL LINKS WITHIN THIS THREAD:


REBECCA'S DRAWINGS:
#13 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2414310&postcount=13), #14 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2414318&postcount=14), #15 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2414322&postcount=15), #16 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2414378&postcount=16), #18 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2414381&postcount=18)

REBECCA'S GESTURE DRAWINGS:
#56 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2417273&postcount=56), #58 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2417286&postcount=58), #59 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2417295&postcount=59)

POTENTIAL SUB-FORUM: ARTISTIC ANATOMY / FIGURATIVE DRAWING:
#301 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2431803&postcount=301)

DRAWING DEMOS / NOTES / PHOTOS:

Notes on Opposing Curves: #211 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2426694&postcount=211), #212 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2426695&postcount=212)
Basic Traditional Drawing Tools: #216 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2426750&postcount=216), #217 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2426768&postcount=217)

INDIVIDUALS' ORIGINAL POSTS:

meta87:#281 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2430084&postcount=281)
zurfer: #22 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2414512&postcount=22)
Xillion: #40 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2415674&postcount=40), #392 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2435315&postcount=392)
augustus: #41 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2415803&postcount=41), #76 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2418158&postcount=76)
tracer18: #44 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2415951&postcount=44)
solarundies: #50 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2416896&postcount=50), #102 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2419859&postcount=102)
cryptic ghost: #51 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2416990&postcount=51)
Skeksi: #52 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2417004&postcount=52)
ZuraK: #60 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2417333&postcount=60)
Desp#2/Rog: #66 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2417473&postcount=66), #81 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2418773&postcount=81), #128 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2422084&postcount=128), #209 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2426621&postcount=209), #218 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2426783&postcount=218), #274 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2429919&postcount=274), #300 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2431797&postcount=300)
eggsrgood: #69 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2417526&postcount=69)
Kalorlo: #73 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2417946&postcount=73), #162 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2424366&postcount=162), #236 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2427671&postcount=236)
Junkoman: #74 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2417977&postcount=74), #121 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2421489&postcount=121)
lutonomy: #75 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2418090&postcount=75)
NOOB: #83 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2418973&postcount=83)
Art2: #86 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2419050&postcount=86)
Solomon: #99 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2419734&postcount=99), #103 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2419870&postcount=103)
Libor: #105 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2419902&postcount=105)
deadplant155: #107 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2419982&postcount=107)
reiq: #108 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2420005&postcount=108)
AStott: #111 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2420176&postcount=111)
dioxide: #112 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2420204&postcount=112)
Gord MacDonald: #113 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2420389&postcount=113)
MagicRubber: #114 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2420604&postcount=114)
Layer 01: #118 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2421195&postcount=118), #120 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2421464&postcount=120), #169 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2424727&postcount=169), #175 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2424918&postcount=175)
fabian84: #119 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2421302&postcount=119)
JimiPhoenix: #122 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2421554&postcount=122)
magic man: #123 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2421817&postcount=123), #159 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2424053&postcount=159), #165 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2424557&postcount=165)
anim_ziggy: #136 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2422832&postcount=136)
Mirwen: #137 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2422859&postcount=137), #293 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2431256&postcount=293)
StarlightGloom: #140 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2422911&postcount=140)
danielkenobi: #143 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2423109&postcount=143), #150 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2423292&postcount=150)
Darktwin: #145 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2423177&postcount=145), #263 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2429598&postcount=263)
LikuidSnake: #148 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2423225&postcount=148)
Somhairle: #151 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2423294&postcount=151), #183 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2426504&postcount=183)
seth1: #152 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2423331&postcount=152)
kunal: #153 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2423600&postcount=153)
dareevan: #155 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2423950&postcount=155)
commodore: #163 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2424375&postcount=163)
C1imaX: #170 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2424738&postcount=170)
WyattHarris: #185 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2426520&postcount=185), #206 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2426610&postcount=206), #223 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2426825&postcount=223)
CBee: #188 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2426530&postcount=188)
lokki: #226 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2426934&postcount=226)
Gordon Freeman: #231 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2427195&postcount=231)
default.rol: #232 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2427204&postcount=232), #261 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2429195&postcount=261), #326 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2432894&postcount=326)
ZuraK: #233 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2427513&postcount=233)
FromanylanD: #264 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2429652&postcount=264), #312 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2431941&postcount=312), #396 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2435503&postcount=396)
Sir Patroclo: #277 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2429992&postcount=277)
mbalestrini: #280 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2430026&postcount=280)
lutonomy: #320 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2432639&postcount=320)
NoirQ: #346 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2433351&postcount=346)
scorpion007: #363 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2433889&postcount=363)
AdrielaSakamoto: #368 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2433970&postcount=368)
stipick_S: #371 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2434027&postcount=371)
sphere: #379 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2434765&postcount=379)

REBECCA'S REVIEWS OF INDIVIDUAL DRAWINGS:

meta87: #53 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2417098&postcount=53)
augustus: #64 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2417417&postcount=64)
maranello 55: #116 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2420891&postcount=116)
magic man: #133 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2422666&postcount=133), #134 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2422668&postcount=134)
fabian84: #182 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2426462&postcount=182)
WyattHarris: #225 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2426916&postcount=225)
anim_ziggy: #243 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2428231&postcount=243)
NOOB: #250 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2428610&postcount=250)
kalorlo: #260 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2429137&postcount=260)
Mirwen: #286 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2430484&postcount=286)
sphere: #316 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2432466&postcount=316)
danielkenobi: #318 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2432528&postcount=318)
Somhairle: #319 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2432577&postcount=319)
kunal: #321 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2432643&postcount=321)
StarlightGloom: #323 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2432703&postcount=323)
commodore: #324 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2432732&postcount=324)
JimiPhoenix: #325 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2432796&postcount=325)
Darktwin: #331 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2433054&postcount=331)
Gordon Freeman: #332 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2433091&postcount=332)
LikuidSnake: #336 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2433150&postcount=336)
deadplant155: #344 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2433285&postcount=344)
Gord MacDonald: #345 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2433340&postcount=345)
lutonomy: #349 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2433435&postcount=349)
AStott: #351 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2433475&postcount=351)
MagicRubber: #353 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2433518&postcount=353)
libor: #355 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2433558&postcount=355)
dioxide: #357 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2433807&postcount=357)
junkoman: #358 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2433832&postcount=358)
crypticghost: #364 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2433894&postcount=364)
Zurak: #366 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2433954&postcount=366)
Solomon: #381 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2434853&postcount=381)
reiq: #382 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2434918&postcount=382)
solarundies: #386 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2435058&postcount=386)
seth1: #388 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2435215&postcount=388)
FromanylanD: #393 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2435352&postcount=393)

RULES FOR CRITIQUING OTHERS' DRAWINGS:

#275 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2429929&postcount=275)

OTHERS' REVISIONS OF INDIVIDUAL DRAWINGS:

Merwin's Review of Wyatt Harris: #241 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2427915&postcount=241)
Somhairle's Review of Kitami: #281 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2430084&postcount=281)
Fromanyland's Review of AdrielaSakamoto: #374 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2434204&postcount=374)

ONLINE RESOURCES:

http://figuredrawings.com/artistsmodel2.html (nudity)
http://figuredrawings.com/1116JOHN%20EVERARD7.jpg (nudity)
http://www.uem.es/web/afd/profesore...ica/figura3.JPG (http://www.uem.es/web/afd/profesores/joan_valios/biomecanica/figura3.JPG)
http://www.artincontext.org/images/...00/WOC0003D.jpg (http://www.artincontext.org/images/WOC/0000/WOC0003D.jpg)
http://www.cotianet.com.br/photo/gr...plus03/EM94.jpg
#288 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2430560&postcount=288)


SPECIAL TOPICS:

Should I Use Reference?: #93 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2419346&postcount=93)
How Do I Start A Gesture Drawing?: #106 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2419958&postcount=106)
Gordon MacDonald's Thoughts On Drawing Gestures: #109 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2420054&postcount=109)

MO' ABOUT REBECCA - WOO!: :D
#317 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2432467&postcount=317)

YEAH, THAT'S FUNNY:

magic man: #179 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2426395&postcount=179)
rebeccak: #224 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2426853&postcount=224)

GESTURES OF THE WEEK!

#412 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2436813&postcount=412)

LoTekK
06-27-2005, 03:30 AM
Hey Rebecca, good to see this getting off the ground. :)

This lesson looks like a good one to start with, and I'm going to give it a shot, since gestures are probably one of my weaker areas. Cheers! :)

meta87
06-27-2005, 03:45 AM
This sounds great! :)

I will definitely be posting.

remcv8
06-27-2005, 03:58 AM
Wow, very cool.

I would like to get in on this one too. I definately need to improve on my anatomy skills. My biggest issue is with hands, feet and overall proportion. (Big Picture)

I'm currently learning out of Burne Hogarth's (awesome) Dynamic Anatomy book. Love Burne Hogarth!!!

Layer01
06-27-2005, 04:31 AM
DISCLAIMER: The creator of this thread, Roberto Ortiz, Rebecca Kimmel, CGNetworks and CGTALK are not responsible for what happens during these classes. Participants are meeting under their own accord and their actions are their own. The aforementioned parties of Roberto Ortiz, Rebecca Kimmel, CGNetworks and CGTALK are in no way responsible for their actions and are thus not liable in any way.




hang on, but i poured coffee in my lap, broke my arm, developed an ulcer, put on 20 pounds while straining my eyes after cramping my neck trying to read this post and your saying its MY fault!?
:D


this thread is awesome, i will post up my drawing (after i heal both mentally and physicaly ;) )
and you say you studied under Hogarth! i am very jealous, he is an amazing artist, his books have taught me so much.

mmkelly011881
06-27-2005, 04:51 AM
excellent... now just to find a model... AH! the zoo!

meta87
06-27-2005, 05:11 AM
Well here is one of my gestures that I liked. It isn't much compared to what I'm sure will be posted, but I'm working hard to improve!

I would love tips anyone has.

http://www.cooltechprojects.com/6-26-05-gesture-1.jpg

(c) TRAVIS IRBY 2005

And here is the photo reference I used:

reference image (http://www.sketchbooksessions.com/thedrawingboard/download.php?id=10733)

Rebeccak
06-27-2005, 05:49 AM
Hello everyone,

Thank you for your posts! Supply-wise, you are welcome to use any medium with which you feel comfortable -- personally, I'm going to be posting charcoal drawings, maybe with some Photoshop additions, but these posts are essentially meant to be more demonstrative in terms of ideas about approaching figurative drawing, and less about using a specific technique.

So you can use what you like for these exercises -- pencil, pen, charcoal, pixels...

That being said, the materials I tend to use when drawing are:

For anatomical studies from books or life:
-ballpoint pen
-any size sketchbook, preferably a standard medium-sized one (not a tiny one)
-pencil rarely

For figurative drawings / life drawings:
-several charcoal pencils (6B Generals) for figurative drawing
-or Carb Othello pencils (more expensive, harder to find, but softer)
-exacto knife to sharpen charcoal pencils
-sandpaper pad to sand sharpened charcoal pencils
-paper towels for pencil shavings
-18" x 24" newsprint pad
-standard masonite drawing board with clips to accommdate 18" x 24" newsprint pad
-support for drawing board (eg, easel -- I just use a black lightweight aluminum tripod-style easel)
-gum eraser (used rarely)

-Anatomy reference books (I will post recommended books shortly)

Cool, stay tuned :)

~Rebeccak
__________________
REBECCA KIMMEL's Anatomy Review (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=251748)
My WIP Painting (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=251590)

Rebeccak
06-27-2005, 05:51 AM
Guys,

Here is a list of Anatomy Reference / Figurative Drawing / Artists' Drawing books which I have in my "library" -- eg, set of Target shelves ;) -- feel free to post the titles of books which you have found helpful and maybe I can convince Roberto to create a sticky for them!

My reference format is shaky at best, but here are the goods:

INSTRUCTIONAL:

"Albinus on Anatomy", by Robert Beverly Hale and Terence Coyle - Dover Publications, publisher

"Artistic Anatomy", by Dr. Paul Richer - Watson Guptill, publisher

"Anatomy Lessons From The Great Masters", by Robert Beverly Hale and Terence Coyle - Watson Guptill, publisher

"Atlas of Human Anatomy for the Artist", by Stephen Rogers Peck - Oxford University Press, publisher

"An Atlas of Anatomy for Artists", by Fritz Schider - Dover Publications, publisher

"Anatomy for the Artist", by Jeno Barcsay - Barnes & Noble Books, publisher

"Human Anatomy for Artists - The Elements of Form", by Eliot Goldfinger - Oxford University Press, publisher

"Master Class in Figure Drawing", by Robert Beverly Hale - Watson Guptill, publisher

"Figure Drawing For All It's Worth", by Andrew Loomis - Viking Press (out of print)

"Dynamic Anatomy", by Burne Hogarth - Watson Guptill, publisher

"Vilppu Drawing Manual", by Glenn Vilppu - (self-published)

"The Human Machine: The Anatomical Structure and Mechanism of the Human Body", by George Bridgeman - Dover, publisher



BOOKS BY / ABOUT DRAUGHTSMEN:

"Michelangelo", by Bernard Lamarche-Vadel - Chartwell Books, Inc., publisher

"Michelangelo And His Drawings", by Michael Hirst - Yale University Press

"Pontormo", by/edited by Salvatore S. Nigro and Marianne Scheider - Schirmer / Mosel, publisher

"The Drawings of Rubens", Master Draughtsman Series of books - Borden Publishing Company, publisher

"The Drawings of Harry Carmean", Master Draughtsman Series of books - Borden Publishing Company, publisher

"Carmean", by June Harwood - Harwood / Carmean, publisher


OF INTEREST:

"Encyclopaedia Anatomica - Museo La Specola Florence" - Taschen, publisher

_____________

Clearly, you don't need all of these! The best thing to do is hunt a few of the top INSTRUCTIONAL books down online or in the bookstores, and see what you like best.
So long as the books that you find contain reference including the skeleton in front, back, and side view, as well as the muscular and surface structures in these three views, you should be fine. Often, artists like to have several books on hand, however, as each reference book can offer something unique, even if the same subject matter is covered.

In terms of books about ARTISTS, everyone should have a book containing Michelangelo's Drawings and Paintings in my opinion! After that, Rubens. After that, Pontormo. These are just my three favorite artists that I drool over. But definitely collect books on artists you love and never loan them! :)

Hope this is useful :)

~Rebeccak
__________________
REBECCA KIMMEL's Anatomy Review (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=251748)
My WIP Painting (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=251590)

sphere
06-27-2005, 05:59 AM
Thanks for doing this Rebecca! I'll definitely be giving this a shot.

Rebeccak
06-27-2005, 07:00 AM
Hey guys, I just wanted to post some of the images that were used in the announcement thread in the hopes that they could give you a better sense of where I am coming from artistically. Thank you for your posts and participation!

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop/01.jpg

Nazirull
06-27-2005, 07:11 AM
SUBSCRIBIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

edit: JOININGGGGGGGGGGGGG.....!!:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Rebeccak
06-27-2005, 07:16 AM
Another...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop/11.jpg

Rebeccak
06-27-2005, 07:18 AM
Another...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop/03.jpg

Rebeccak
06-27-2005, 07:20 AM
One last one...

__ God that was a horrible drawing! haha

Thanks,
~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
06-27-2005, 07:52 AM
Couple more...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop/02.jpg

lukx
06-27-2005, 07:53 AM
Rebecca five stars from me for such a grate thread! :thumbsup:

Rebeccak
06-27-2005, 07:53 AM
Last one...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop/12.jpg

Adamos
06-27-2005, 07:53 AM
I'm in this fo' sure babe!

Will be posting soon...

check ya later! Excellent idea starting this thread!

Peace...

Adam...

Nazirull
06-27-2005, 08:20 AM
Wow...this is like a free course....I love the idea...Cant thanks Bobby and Kimmel enough.

Here's my first doodle....the left arm is worse from the rest....hehehe...

http://img78.echo.cx/img78/7069/001012we.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us/)

edit : no refs.....This is not my final submission...so i hope i can just edit this post to submit a different one....:bounce: CAn I?

A few more............pls tell me if im doing it right or not....ive never taken any class such as this.

http://img292.echo.cx/img292/4628/001029ph.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us/)
http://img247.echo.cx/img247/2443/001031aa.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us/)

Again...no refs...The first 2 sketches are manual on copy paper. The one above here is done with wacom.

oh Rebecca im ready for your crits...if these are worth your crits at all!!

At the end of the week I will just update this reply to a single final gesture.....its that ok?

A couple more....
The kneeling one is a failure...spent more than 20 minutes on that..the second one is ok...5 minutes...hehehe...I dont want to post too big of an image...but hopefully not too small for rebeccak to revise it.....

Wacom..............

http://img193.echo.cx/img193/5085/001040gh.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us/)

greynite1
06-27-2005, 08:51 AM
Thank you so much rebecca for doing this I will be watching this thread and eagerly following along. I'm taking some of my first Life drawing classes and hopefully this will get me sketching in the right direction. Thank you so much for taking your time to do this.

zurfer
06-27-2005, 08:53 AM
This is great! I've been doing 3D for so long that my 2D skills really are in need of help. Nothing's like going through the basics. Love the Idea.

Here's a doodle i slapped together as to get startet.

Great initiative.

Best regards

Peter Broqvist

Ego
06-27-2005, 09:02 AM
Thanks Rebecca. Subscribing to the thread.

loocas
06-27-2005, 09:43 AM
This is GOLD!!

http://www.cgtalk.com/images/rating/rating_5.gif and I'm subscribing! :buttrock:

Michiel t.B.
06-27-2005, 10:16 AM
I'd love to subscribe :)! Thanks for starting this thread!

ms@zx
06-27-2005, 10:23 AM
awesome thread!.thanks alot rebecca!http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif
the whole thing is very well defined!

Booyaka
06-27-2005, 11:35 AM
Thank you very much for this thread Rebecca, It's a very good way to progress I think,
I'll post my work soon :)

ares623
06-27-2005, 11:51 AM
WOW!:bounce: this thread is great! i'd love to join but i have no way to scan in drawings.. :cry:
but that won't stop me from learning a lot from this thread. *bookmarked*!

paperclip
06-27-2005, 12:14 PM
This is great so far! I love the way you're focusing on gestures first, will really help later on.

Just tried out your method, it works! Will scan in a charcoal attempt later today. :thumbsup:
5 stars from me so far...

TheFirstAngel
06-27-2005, 12:16 PM
wonderfull thread. thanks for sharing :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Arctis
06-27-2005, 12:31 PM
Thanx for sharing your knowledge, Rebecca !
I will watch regularly this great (and necessary ) thread.

PS : your anatomical studies are AWESOME.

Bye,

Pierre.

ashrumm
06-27-2005, 12:51 PM
I am so excited, this is what I have been waiting for, time to get to work!

Rebeccak
06-27-2005, 01:00 PM
Wow, guys, thanks for the posts! Can't wait to see more folks' work, I'm really excited people are interested in participating!! This is going to be awesome...

~Rebeccak

jmBoekestein
06-27-2005, 01:34 PM
Gotta tell you this. I recently got into 2d stuff with a real intent to learn it. This is just excellent timing. I hope I will be able to participate. I had learnt a thing or two here and there, at least I know I'm doing half of it right now. LOL and thx. :D

neiy0
06-27-2005, 02:20 PM
It's good to see something like this on cgtalk, it's rare. Your drawings are very impressive, and for an Ilustration student such as myself it is inspirational..

I think it is great that an Illustration thread made it to front page, especially on a mainly computer graphics website. I think everyone who is really interested in this should check out conceptart.org (http://www.conceptart.org/forums) some fantastic drawings are there, including many anatomy drawings.. It does not focus to much on computer related topics, but the traditional drawing the techniques.

Again, awsome thread, and it will be fun to check up on updates, regularly!

AdrielaSakamoto
06-27-2005, 02:46 PM
I'm soo here, Dudette. A thousand blessings on your head for doing this.

A. Sakamoto

default-rol
06-27-2005, 03:39 PM
Wow!

I'm in. :thumbsup:

default-rol
06-27-2005, 03:43 PM
Wow!

I'm in. :thumbsup:

The child sobs, "give it to me!" The bright, full moon. (Haiku poem)

Sagii
06-27-2005, 04:06 PM
:) nice, ill be coming back here for sure! great to see you here Rebecca showing your skills to the world :)

Xillion
06-27-2005, 04:54 PM
This is a very interesting topic! While listening to Ray Charles I did a few gesture drawings

http://img40.echo.cx/img40/558/gestures0if.th.gif (http://img40.echo.cx/my.php?image=gestures0if.gif)

They are based on photos I took yesterday (you can see one (http://www.photosig.com/go/photos/view?id=1554843&forward=viewportfolio) here ^_^).
I was just excited to draw so I did not strictly follow the guidelines, I hope it's not too bad!. At the end of the week I'll chose the best sketch to have it reviewed :)

update #1: another batch of studies (model photos from the web)

http://img192.echo.cx/img192/8126/gestures26mz.th.gif (http://img192.echo.cx/my.php?image=gestures26mz.gif)

update #2: some more... (oh God...my lines are so unclean!)

http://img91.echo.cx/img91/8192/gestures34qe.th.gif (http://img91.echo.cx/my.php?image=gestures34qe.gif)

update #3: did you ever hear to Avantasia-The metal opera part II ? I did this while listening to it :)

http://img99.echo.cx/img99/2554/gestures41xf.th.jpg (http://img99.echo.cx/my.php?image=gestures41xf.jpg)

Update #4: these are the first few studies done without reference. I tried to focus on the peanut shape as suggested.

http://img93.echo.cx/img93/7580/untitled12av.th.jpg (http://img93.echo.cx/my.php?image=untitled12av.jpg)

Update #5: I tried to follow the suggestion to draw not the figure but the action the figure is doing. I imagined the reaction of a man caught by sudden fire from front/below. The first two drawings are the original sketch and a tracing...I was not entirely satisfied so I produced the third drawing which I think is better. No reference used in any of these.

http://img7.echo.cx/img7/5126/fire1nt.th.jpg (http://img7.echo.cx/my.php?image=fire1nt.jpg)

Update #6: a few more studies developing the idea of actions (I gave a name to the pictured action for rebecca to double check the result). Again, no reference used.

http://img286.echo.cx/img286/2104/study74ce.th.jpg (http://img286.echo.cx/my.php?image=study74ce.jpg)

Update #7: one more pose. a man is pulling a rope. the first rendition does not have much strenght...I hope the second is better. I'll try to enhance this gesture in a future update. No reference used.

http://img262.echo.cx/img262/2643/pulling2sw.th.jpg (http://img262.echo.cx/my.php?image=pulling2sw.jpg)

augustus
06-27-2005, 05:34 PM
Lessons from a master! Wow! Just wow! :bowdown:

Ok, here is my humble sketch. Pushing:

http://august.f2o.org/temp/a01_gesture1.jpg

JARhead
06-27-2005, 05:55 PM
Hoooha! Sweet stuff going down, cant wait!

Need to go and draw up some stuff for this here thread, cant miss out on this action! Many thanks BTW :buttrock:

tatiana
06-27-2005, 05:55 PM
Hi Rebeccak,

I just checked out the other thread where you and Roberto mentioned getting this Anatomy Review started. It sounds like an interesting project and I'm curious to see the results from the various artists that participate. Hope it all goes well!

Was just curious if in your studies you also happened to get some medical illustration type of anatomy classes? And used actual cadavers for your muscle and bone illustrations? Or were you working from live models and some of the reference books you mentioned?

t

DB3D
06-27-2005, 06:20 PM
these were if i remember correctly 20-30 second gesture sketches. These are my favorite to do.

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0UADvAisZoQxuJ!Oc9YZC6pLrh*p6yUr7izg3Z3IjqIclhzx9boWQzi*Hkl60f6waQISujEjeZMrNbaJlznup39Op9BCOLcF4F*vEi0mmlPDYQS*Br0Dy5nSCMxcAcDMX/Page40.jpg

Rebeccak
06-27-2005, 06:55 PM
LoTekK, meta 87, remcv8, Layer 01, mmkelly01181, sphere, maranello55, lukx, Adamos, greynite1, zurfer, Queensoul, loocas, Michiel t. B., msatzx, Booyaka, ares623, paperclip, the1st_angel, Arctis, ashrumm, jmBoekestein, neiy0, AdrielaSakamoto, default.rol, InesD!, Xillion, augustus, JarHead, tatiana, and tracer18 ~

Thanks to all of you guys for posting!!! This is much appreciated, I hope you continue to post your work as we continue with this workshop, it will definitely spur each of us to better work!

Also, thank you for such a warm welcome to the CGTalk Website, I am relatively new to the site, but have since become sincerely ADDICTED and am constantly inspired by the amazing work that you guys post here along with many others -- it's truly awesome to be a part of this amazing community! So thank you for giving me the chance to participate :)

In response to tatiana's question about my background, I have a long history of drawing from the model, drawing from imagination, and yes, drawing from many kinds of reference, including photographs of sculptures, master drawings (my favorite), anatomy reference works, but rarely from photos of models. Photos are for my taste a little too flat, but I love to look at master drawings by the likes of Michelangelo and Rubens especially. With Michelangelo, everything is CLEAR, and Rubens to me makes Michelangelo accessible. Will I ever draw like these guys? Oh, hell no, but you always have to work from the best ~ so they keep me inspired and kick my butt on a regular basis.

With respect to medical anatomy, I consider myself to be a (learning) draughtsman rather than an anatomist per se -- it is a common axiom that an anatomist with all of the anatomy knowledge in the world will not necessarily be able to draw -- drawing is, to me at least, about STRUCTURE and about having knowledge of basic anatomy and important landmarks which enable you to draw the human figure convincingly. I have not dissected a cadaver, but would like to! I'm not sure I could handle the smell, however...so for the time being I will stick to books.

Hope that answers your question...I am greatly looking forward to your posts!

Thanks,
~Rebeccak

Darktwin
06-27-2005, 07:50 PM
This is really awesome, I'm really looking forward to this expanding, I'll be here for sure.

ynvamsi
06-27-2005, 08:05 PM
I am in. ThanQ rebeccak ,for starting this great thread.I think this thread has no end. U R great:love:

swadepgh
06-27-2005, 08:18 PM
Wow this thread is really cool. Count me in!

Rebecca thank you so much for doing this. THis is a great idea!

I can't wait to dust off the old masonite board and get started. :)

Skeksi
06-28-2005, 12:00 AM
I'm so excited to get started! <click homepage> I'll be watching and hopefully posting regularly....cant wait to get started.

solarundies
06-28-2005, 12:15 AM
Thank you once again Rebecca for doing this for us! these were done in pencil, scanned, and levels adjusted in PS.

http://members.cox.net/solarundies/6-27-05.jpg

pangmans
06-28-2005, 01:16 AM
excellent drawing. I am very impressed with your close detail, and cross hatch shading. i am so inspired. thank you for sharing. in this picture you should be able to see the light lines as the set up for the dark and final lines, as in technique shown by rebecca.
http://www.crypticghost.com/files/figure1.jpg
i have figure drawings coming out my ears, here is a quick one i grabbed for this thread.
p.s i have no formal training, or college. just been drawing my whole life.

Skeksi
06-28-2005, 01:20 AM
I need serious work on my abilities and the human anatomy is no exception...here is my 'gesturing' attempt...thank you very much for this opportunity....cant wait to see all the posts.

http://www.icrdomain.com/gesturing.jpg

Rebeccak
06-28-2005, 02:12 AM
meta87,

thank you for your post!! I congratulate you on becoming the first guinea pig for this thread ~ and well, according to the rules, I shouldn't start posting revisions til the end of the week, but I'm going to start, to give folks a little more to go on than just the initial drawings and text which I posted.

so here goes :)

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop/REVISION_meta87_6-26-05FIN2.jpg

Here I have tried to show several different ways of approaching the gesture drawing ~ all of which are based on the same basic idea outlined in the Gesture lesson:

WHAT TO ESTABLISH IN A GESTURE DRAWING:

Direction of HEAD
Direction of RIBCAGE
Direction of PELVIS
CENTER LINE OF BODY
Flow of LIMBS
A. is your original drawing. Comments: I think there is a nice sense of movement, and the twist of the upper torso is rather clear. Criticism: Focus more on the underlying structure of the body before adding superficial details such as specific facial features, hair, clothing, etc. The STRUCTURE is the most important part, but it is easy to forget that what you see on the surface of the figure is not what is defining the underlying structure.

B. shows the simple lay-in with the PEANUT shape defining the torso (combination of rib cage and pelvis) ~ the main thing here is not to make the drawing look exactly like the person, but rather to reinforce the principles listed above in both your mind and in your hand.

C. shows more of a box and cylinder construction approach, where boxes are used to define the shape and orientation of the rib cage and pelvis, and cylinders are used to define the general shape and flow of the arms and legs in sections. Note that the CENTER LINE is indispensible in all of these analytic drawings to show the orientation of the whole figure.

D. Just takes the concepts listed in C a bit further...

E. shows that the superficial surface of the body, the skin, is added last, and rides on top of the underlying construction which you have created. As skin is formless without the underlying bone and muscle structure of the body, so are lines formless without the underlying construction tools - boxes, cylinders, & axes such as the center line - which we utilize in a drawing.

F. shows the method with which these drawings were created -- successive sheets of tracing paper which were scanned. Don't be afraid to trace over your own drawings to refine them ~ it's a great way to see your mistakes and to learn from them. I created several versions which are now happily living in the garbage can :) so the more mistakes you make, the more you learn ~

One more thing ~ it's important to note that this type of structural drawing is not ultimately how you want to draw ~ but it is far more important to learn structure this way than to try to produce a "pretty" drawing without substance.

Hope this helps :)
~Rebeccak

DjinnShadows
06-28-2005, 02:31 AM
Wow rebeccak, impressive work nearly same quality as Burn Hogarth.
Thanks for your advices.

Happy Trees
06-28-2005, 03:10 AM
I think I'l keep making sketches till the rest of the week even though I got one that I'm surprisingly happy with today. Maybe I'l end up with something worth critiquing.

Rebeccak
06-28-2005, 03:53 AM
Thanks, guys, for your continued posts.

Here is an example of a gesture drawing which I did a while back...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop/gesture_man_upright.jpg

Junkoman
06-28-2005, 03:55 AM
Back to basics.......Woohoo~
Thanks Rebecca for coming up with such a thread.
Will be posting mine shortly......:thumbsup:

Rebeccak
06-28-2005, 04:00 AM
Another faded gesture...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop/gesture_woman_kneeling.jpg

Rebeccak
06-28-2005, 04:14 AM
Here is an example of a gesture drawing drawn from a photograph of a sculpture...the good thing with photographs of sculpture~ nothing moves...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop/gesture_ignudi.jpg

ZuraK
06-28-2005, 04:50 AM
Ok i may have gotten everyting upside-down but here goes:
http://z-software.dyndns.org/Thingy.JPG
I hope the image shows up.

(Z)

Rebeccak
06-28-2005, 05:10 AM
Darktwin, ynvamsi, swadepgh, skeksi, solarundies, cryptic ghost, DjinnShadows, MagicRubber, ZuraK ~ thanks for your posts! I am going to attempt to review as much stuff as possible, it's great to see the enthusiasm and the work that people are submitting!

~Rebeccak

meta87
06-28-2005, 05:13 AM
Wow! Thanks so much for the lesson!

The drawings you made are so much help. Great idea about the tracing paper, I always kind off shyed away from tracing, but I definitely see what you mean about it helping. My sketches always get alittle crowded and it is hard to keep working on a sketch after a while.

I am really going to work hard on the box approach for the ribcage and pelvis. It is hard for me to grasp, but I have been using Bridgman's Life Drawing book which is so into this method. He seems to use a very boxy method of drawing the human figure. I like it because it really makes the anatomy more clear.

Thanks again for taking the time to do this! I'm learning alot already. :)

scorpion007
06-28-2005, 05:23 AM
cool thread

here's a couple of n00b sketches i did :) (in PS, because i couldnt be bothered scanning :P)
I actually find it a lot harder in PS compared to on real paper...
http://img132.echo.cx/img132/6231/poses017hb.th.jpg (http://img132.echo.cx/my.php?image=poses017hb.jpg)

Rebeccak
06-28-2005, 05:45 AM
augustus~
thanks for posting! Ah, I see we have another willing victim :)

Ok, here is your original drawing along with my very slight modifications...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop/REVISON_a01_gesture1.jpg

Essentially, you've made my job easy by establishing a very strong figure with a good sense of proportion, weight, volume, and foreshortening. I like that you've put in some of the landmarks of the body to guide your measurements for the limbs. So definitely you are not a beginner.

There are a few minor critiques to point out. I would thicken the man's right upper leg as it looks a bit atrophied in comparison to the man's left upper leg, which seems in good proportion to his torso. Watch the widths of his ankles, as the man's left ankle seems a bit thin in comparison to his right. To give the man's right leg a more convincing sense of tension (he is pushing with his leg against the floor), add emphasis to the curves which oppose each other on either side of the man's leg ~ not like parentheses ( ) but rather emphasize the curves as they oppose each other in an offset way as they do in a spiral of DNA. This will give you a more convincing sense of organic form.

Lastly, I would suggest doing just what I did ~ which was to tape a piece of tracing paper on top of your drawing and both simplify things as well as emphasize, through confident lines, the contour of the figure. By contour, I do not mean outline so much as the natural flow of lines around the man's form. You definitely have a great start which only needs a bit of tweaking. Definitely post more drawings in the future!

Thanks :)
~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
06-28-2005, 06:05 AM
meta87~

>Wow! Thanks so much for the lesson!

You are absolutely welcome :) thanks for being a good sport!

>Great idea about the tracing paper, I always kind off shyed away from tracing, but I definitely see what you mean about it helping.

It may be old-fashioned, but it does the trick! I agree with scorpion007 that basic drawing in Photoshop is WAY harder than just a good ol' pencil ~ something to do with the slickness of the Wacom surface, I think the texture of the paper slows you down and allows you time to consider what you're doing...even taping paper over my Wacom tablet just doesn't do it for me.

>I am really going to work hard on the box approach for the ribcage and pelvis. It is hard for me to grasp, but I have been using Bridgman's Life Drawing book which is so into this method.

Great! I should have mentioned Bridgeman. I have his books somewhere...his boxy shapes are definitely helpful conceptually, although I always found his system to be sketchy and incomplete ~ hence the suggestion to work from several different books to fill in the gaps.

>Thanks again for taking the time to do this! I'm learning alot already.

:) Spread the word and keep posting! I am learning a lot, too.

~Rebeccak

RO
06-28-2005, 06:13 AM
Here is mine :)


http://onlinewarriors.beyondunreal.com/RandomStuff/Figure1-1.jpg
I drew this from a statue I found on the net. First laid it out quick than added a quick black line.

Rebeccak
06-28-2005, 06:20 AM
<Quoting Rainman> Definitely gotta sleep...Definitely.

Thanks for the posts, guys, please keep it up! :)

~Rebeccak

scorpion007
06-28-2005, 06:30 AM
Here's a slightly refined verson of my first picture:

http://img140.echo.cx/img140/180/poses024ei.th.jpg (http://img140.echo.cx/my.php?image=poses024ei.jpg)

This time with a muscle reference. (not pose)

eggsrgood
06-28-2005, 06:35 AM
This gesture was the most difficult of the ones I tried to draw but it seemed to turn out the best of them. Would really appreciate any feedback, this thread is the maddest idea. Thanks Rebeccak!

Carl English 2005

augustus
06-28-2005, 06:51 AM
The worst part of books is, well, they don't tell you what you're doing wrong. I've spent almost an half hour to compare A and B. Your crits and suggestions worths a lot! Thank you very very much. :bowdown:

Nazirull
06-28-2005, 07:37 AM
Nice post everyone! But im confused....are we supposed to come up with simple gestures (cylinders & peanut) or the ones with defined muscle lines??

NOOB!
06-28-2005, 09:53 AM
interesting,i'll work on sumthin..

Kalorlo
06-28-2005, 10:00 AM
Here are a couple from me:

http://www.kellyhouse.force9.co.uk/art/anatomy/anatomy01.jpg

This is from life, but my dear model was asleep and under the covers, so it made making the shapes a leetle trickier :)


http://www.kellyhouse.force9.co.uk/art/anatomy/anatomy02.jpg

These are from photos of models off the internet. I should probably find some that have legs :)


Edit: 'Nother two, again from models.

http://www.kellyhouse.force9.co.uk/art/anatomy/anatomy03.jpg


And one where I was trying to go faster, since I probably spent too long on the last one.

http://www.kellyhouse.force9.co.uk/art/anatomy/anatomy04.jpg

Junkoman
06-28-2005, 10:15 AM
Here's my try:

Pics from magazines, using a Wacom. C & C welcome. Thanks~

http://geocities.com/wtyin/Gestures.jpg

lutonomy
06-28-2005, 11:06 AM
This is awesome! I'm taking a figure drawing class this semester, and while I still have no idea what I'm doing, I love it. This is an fantastic opportunity - count me in!

Rebecca your drawings are amazing!

Here are a few humble submissions from me:

http://www.lutonomy.com/secretfolder/figure3.jpg

http://www.lutonomy.com/secretfolder/figure1.jpg

augustus
06-28-2005, 11:41 AM
If I's OK, I want to post another one. But I will just link it to not to attract much attention.:p

Another one (http://august.f2o.org/temp/pulling.jpg)

Rebeccak
06-28-2005, 11:44 AM
maranello55 wrote:
>Nice post everyone! But im confused....are we supposed to come up with simple gestures (cylinders & peanut) or the ones with defined muscle lines??

Good question, and I apologize for the confusion. People draw gestures in as many different ways as there are people, and I don't want to dictate what people do. I am just giving suggestions ~ my advice if you have not already posted is to use the cylinders and peanut technique ~ just to give it a try and see if it makes sense to you. The more defined drawings should technically come later, but I wanted to post corrections to encourage folks to post their work~

Having said that, yes, please post your simple gestures using clean lines and the peanut shape, as that was the initial lesson. But we are just getting started here, so a few of the kinks will be worked out as we go ;)

Thank you for your patience and participation!

Also~

Thanks to everyone else for their posts!

~Rebeccak

Nazirull
06-28-2005, 12:20 PM
Kewl Rebeccak....Either way...kewl post everyone....keep it up...this thing is gonna be hot...very2 hot. heheheh:D

Rebeccak
06-28-2005, 01:14 PM
augustus ~
you are very very welcome! Keep up the good work!

Woo! More posts!!

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
06-28-2005, 01:30 PM
maranello55,

haven't forgotten about you, but it will probably be later in the evening before I can post your revised drawing. Hang in there :)


maranello55 wrote:
>Rebecca im ready for your crits...if these are worth your crits at all!!

Of course they are worth critique! That is the purpose of the thread :) ~
The only way to improve is to see your own work in a critical light, and that is best done with a group of peers who provide additional eyes for your work. Eventually your own judgement and evaluation of your work and others' will change.

>At the end of the week I will just update this reply to a single final gesture.....its that ok?

No problem ~ it probably helps you to see your progress to do these this way as well. Well done ~ for someone who has never taken a class, I am impressed ~ just keep working on these :)

Drawing is all about MILEAGE...

~Rebeccak

RO
06-28-2005, 03:19 PM
http://onlinewarriors.beyondunreal.com/RandomStuff/Figure1-2.jpg

Same the blue is the quick marking down and second is using single strocks for lines to define the shape. Ill add one per day I think.

Rebeccak
06-28-2005, 03:26 PM
Desp#2/Rog,

It's a great idea to use separate colors for different types of drawing analysis systems ~ it's a good alternative to using tracing paper, which gets cumbersome.

And, of course, there's Photoshop, which is perfect for keeping these layers separate, but as I mentioned in a previous post, drawing on a Wacom is a bit more tricky than painting can be...but that is a personal preference.

You should use whatever system works best for you ~ the purpose in doing these types of gestural / analytical drawings is to build and reinforce your understanding of form ~ so keep this kind of thing up, looks good so far, I will later post my review.

Thanks,
~Rebeccak

NOOB!
06-28-2005, 04:17 PM
Sup rebbeca,i got sum gesture sketches i did today,and a b and w section of my digi painting i'm working on,was hoping to get sum tips. mainly on foreshortening and more in depth anatomy...when u get to it that is.the first two figures here are actually boys,they where from sum drawing studies i did at a museum,the had very feminin poses for sum reason.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/noobeene/poses.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/noobeene/picforcrit.jpg

Rebeccak
06-28-2005, 04:22 PM
NOOB,

great to see you here, I'm glad you liked my suggestion and posted your painting WIP here in B/W form. A painting is, after all, just a drawing with color :) so it's cool to see your stuff.

Looking forward to reviewing your work. Keep on checking back :)

Thanks,
~Rebeccak

NOOB!
06-28-2005, 04:24 PM
Looking forward to reviewing your work. Keep on checking back :)

Thanks,
~Rebeccak

ah crap is my art that bad??? heh jus kiddin,i'll check back when i can,thanks in advance.

take ur time :deal:

Art2
06-28-2005, 04:42 PM
Hi gang,

I drew this yesterday on my wacom. I just started doodling and this (strange) gesture came to be... just imagine it's a superhero about to shoot ...something :D
No doubt there's lots wrong with it. I didn't use a ref, I'll do that next time and come up with a believable gesture, heheh...

Great sketches all! :thumbsup:
And this is one extra :thumbsup: for Rebecca!

http://www.marlonart.nl/web/ana_01.gif

Rebeccak
06-28-2005, 05:12 PM
Whoa, art2!

Rockin'!

~Rebeccak

Mirwen
06-28-2005, 05:21 PM
hua!:eek: Only lines? Err... ok. Well, anatomy is my weak page. So I am going to do some skatches. I wish you luck rebeccak with this thread, I really wish you luck because this seem to be very fusy on time.:)
sorry, my English is not perfect:shrug:

WyattHarris
06-28-2005, 05:25 PM
Rebecca let me ask you a question. I own and have read all of Burne Hogarths books and look to his instruction in them for most of my drawing techniques. In his dynamic anatomy (figure drawing? can't remember which one) book he seems to really pound on the idea of not needing references and models to still draw realistic characters. I've been working with that mantra now for at least 2 years working at improving my technique. How important is that to you and I'm curious how he really approached the subject in his formal classes. Personally I always use references but I try to do as much as I can without.

BTW, I'll be posting probably tomorrow. I definately want your input.

Thanks
Wyatt Harris

Art2
06-28-2005, 05:37 PM
Whoa, art2!

Rockin'!

~Rebeccak

:blush: Thank you...

Like Wyatt I never use ref, well only myself especially for the hands (... why didn't God just give us stomps and telekinesis huh?).
But I really need to use ref more or else I'll be stuck where I am now...

LoTekK
06-28-2005, 06:08 PM
http://www.marlonart.nl/web/ana_01.gif

Flame on! :p

Bentagon
06-28-2005, 06:12 PM
Awesome! This comes at the perfect time! Just graduated, school's out, summer's starting, and want my drawing to become much stronger so I can go 2D all the way in the AnimationMentor.com animation program. I should be uploading some stuff in one or two days... I hope that's not too late :s

Superidea, and supernice of you to start this!

- Benjamin

Rebeccak
06-28-2005, 06:22 PM
WyattHarris and art2,

The question about using REFERENCE is a good one ~ I doubt it has a "right" answer.

They still say in art school that you should learn to draw without reference ~ but that is only after having learned from various references - be it the model, a book, a statue, or a photograph - what to EXPECT. The purpose of telling students to learn to draw without reference is to get them to study ENOUGH REFERENCE in the first place to be able to draw without it. No one is psychic, and it is purposeless to shoot oneself in the foot when you are stuck on a problem.

If reference helps ~ use it! :)

Burne was indeed a larger than life character who would bellow at us in the classroom that we knew nothing about the world and were basically a bunch of dunces (and duncettes) :) and I have to say that the lunches we would have with him were pretty entertaining. The guy was amazing, but he was also in his eighties and had been drawing and teaching his dramatic method for breaking down form for YEARS. So yes, he could draw without reference because of his YEARS of practice. The rest of us have to build up those years and years of practice in the first place.

I agree, however, with the following concept: when you are drawing from the model or reference, DO NOT COPY the model or reference by drawing every little detail and hair. Try hard NOT to think, in the initial stages when you're learning to draw, of creating a beautiful, finished drawing ~ rather, think of “Drawing” as a process of breaking down form and figuring out how things work. Concentrate on gaining mileage (drawing A LOT), as much of drawing is memory stored in your hand and arm, in combination with the ideas which you have come to store in your mind about the figure and project onto the page. “Drawing” is therefore a richter-scale of what you see and know.

Think of drawing as a process over time of developing your archetype of a figure and superimposing this archetype over the model to “draw” – consciously using what you see as inspiration to aid you in constructing on the page a “drawing”: your idea of the pose combined with your pre-conceived idea/knowledge of the figure.

You can think of Drawing also as “Analysis of Form” ~ Your thinking process in terms of breaking form down is as important if not more so than what you actually achieve on the page.

Hence, the emphasis on GESTURE, BOX shapes, CYLINDER shapes, and AXES of the body.

IN BRIEF: Think of Drawing as a long-term process, not just as what you do on one page.

Hope this helps :)
~Rebecca

deadplant155
06-28-2005, 06:28 PM
thanks a lot for doing this for everybody, i know a lot of people really appreciate it :D
i don't know if i'll have time to participate , but i definitely intend to keep watching this and other threads....um on that note...*emberassed* how do you subscribe to a thread?
thanks again,

-loren

NOOB!
06-28-2005, 06:31 PM
thanks a lot for doing this for everybody, i know a lot of people really appreciate it :D
i don't know if i'll have time to participate , but i definitely intend to keep watching this and other threads....um on that note...*emberassed* how do you subscribe to a thread?
thanks again,

-loren

at the top of this thread u shud see "thread tools",click on it,then u shud get a scroll down menu,then click subscribe to thread.

and rebecca whens ur book coming out? lol.

Art2
06-28-2005, 06:47 PM
I agree, however, with the following concept: when you are drawing from the model or reference, DO NOT COPY the model or reference by drawing every little detail and hair.


Good one, I'm planning to use ref to know where that particular muscle belong (or not belong :) ) or how it flexes in certain situations etc. Also if the character is balanced right, where the weight is and so on. Figuring how things work... :)

LoteKK: :p :D

Frogman
06-28-2005, 07:50 PM
This is exciting.. time to get back into drawing :)

Kitami
06-28-2005, 08:18 PM
first I thought when i saw the title "oh no anatomy, HIDE!" and didnt look in here, now that i took time to read it my hands are burning with wishes to draw ... anatomy! Soo.. ill get right to that and post as soon as i have access to my scanner!

GREAT POST

Solomon
06-28-2005, 08:33 PM
:thumbsup: Beka - Keep up the good work :buttrock:

http://www.sowl.com/albums/Sketches/shadows2.jpg

Rebeccak
06-28-2005, 08:39 PM
Solomon!

Excellent to see you here, buddy :)

How is le petit king? Fully rendered ~ now animated!

Cool drawing, can't wait to give you a hard time about it, dear 'brother'! :)

Best, :)
~Rebeccak

thetrianglekid
06-28-2005, 08:48 PM
great thread!

solarundies
06-28-2005, 09:18 PM
I hope it's ok for me to put another pic up on here.

http://members.cox.net/solarundies/6-28-05.jpg

Solomon
06-28-2005, 09:20 PM
le petit king is doing great - he says he will withdraw all funding if you give Le Papi a hard time!!

http://www.sowl.com/albums/Sketches/shadows3.jpg

Rebeccak
06-28-2005, 09:33 PM
Mirwen, LoTekK (I am sooooo confused! What if my mom is "Muskrat187"? -that's just disturbing!), Bentagon, deadplant155, NOOB, Frogman, Kitami, Solomon, and solarundies!

Thanks for your posts! Great work~ can't wait to review! :)

LoTekK...you're doomed, man, you're doomed. I'm going to have to sic Muskrat197 on you for that one, Mr. "Netherlands". :)

~Rebeccak

Libor
06-28-2005, 09:33 PM
Hi!
Here´s my try at gesture drawing:D The 2 min limit is killing me - I m not able to draw as fast:shrug: (I know there is also shading but its not time consuming compared to linework)

Rebeca: If I would have a question for you, could you put some light in the process of your drawings (I mean the fast "curvy" ones). Every time I draw pose I first state the proportions by height of heads and angles of main axes for pelvis etc but its not spontaneous. Do you lay some stroke for measure or simply put them on canvas directly??

Thx in advance!

http://www.cgart.org/Content/temp/gesture01.jpg

Rebeccak
06-28-2005, 09:52 PM
Libor wrote:

>Every time I draw pose I first state the proportions by height of heads and angles of main axes for pelvis etc but its not spontaneous. Do you lay some stroke for measure or simply put them on canvas directly??

Libor,

Great question :). It took me a LONG time to figure out that there are many different kinds of drawings which serve many different purposes.

Gesture drawings utilizing the kinds of "curvy lines" which you mention are good for showing organic movement, and of a more spontaneous nature than gesture drawings using the boxy / cylindrical construction method. Later I'll post a drawing showing the difference between the two. Believe it or not, you can become efficient at stating the proportions in a spontaneous way by blending these two types of gesture drawings. It's a matter of flow, and I'll demonstrate that in a later post, because it is a very important point.

When I first started to learn drawing formally in art school, I really struggled with this issue of trying to get clunky boxes and cylinders to make sense both to me and on the page. You have to have patience ~ also, I really recommend some of Burne Hogarth's books, because he so CLEARLY breaks down form using very geometric forms. Having said that, I do not recommend DRAWING that way forever - it's meant as a learning tool, not as a style, and the "curvy lines" you mention I feel are more artistic in a sense and less structural. To blend artistry and intrinsic knowledge/demonstration of structure takes time + practice, and I struggle with these issues all the time, in every drawing I make.

In short: your first drawings done in this analytical, boxy / cylindrical way WILL be and seem clunky. But it is a matter of categorization that is difficult to overcome. Analytical drawings such as these are not meant to be final products -- they are meant to help you learn the basic STRUCTURE of the body. As such, they are, in a way, disposable - because the purpose is to lock in your MIND what you grasp about the structure of the body.

As you do many, many drawings and these concepts become second nature, you can remove the "training wheels" which these analytical drawings provide ~ and trust me, I do not call them "training wheels" in a negative way -- these types of drawings are CRUCIAL to understanding form. Without STRUCTURE, curvy lines are only that - curvy lines.

Thanks for the question! Hope this helps :)
~Rebeccak

deadplant155
06-28-2005, 09:58 PM
so here's a quick one from me, i'm on a break at work, luckily i brought my wacom today. it's supposed to be me sitting in my chair hunched over on my desk, but it looks....sort of...not good. i had to go really quick on this one, sorry about that...i just don't wanna let this opportunity go by, so i had to submit something, thanks again :)

*EDIT* I forgot to mention that I didn't use a reference, just kind of imagined what i look like and tried to draw just from my imagination...sad to say, this is an improvement :| .

-loren



http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/deadplant155/figureSketch1.jpg

reiq
06-28-2005, 10:09 PM
here a piece i'm working right now . i didn't use any reference on this so it took me some time to figure out the whole thing. i know i have some problems with her proportions. but i want to know which other wrong things i have here.!! pls!

http://www.reiq.ws/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/lovo%26pop.jpg

Gord-MacDonald
06-28-2005, 10:30 PM
Hi Folks

I have been following this thread closely. Lotsa good work/efforts!

Great initiative rebeccak!

Thoughts on life studies without a model:

When I was doing alot of figure drawing without the benefit of a live model, I bought a couple of cheap full length mirrors - about $15.00 each. I stripped down and drew myself in a great variety of poses - often holding the pose, observing and then doing quick memory poses (pose - look - draw; pose - look - draw etc...).
Another good approach is to hold a pose for as long as you can - until it hurts! - then draw the hurt - that is where the important parts of the pose are.

again good work - I will be posting some stuff soon.


*edit*

some thoughts from another great teacher Kimon Nicolades:

ON GESTURE:

"draw not what the thing looks like, not even what it is, but WHAT IT IS DOING"

ON LEARNING TO DRAW:

"I believe that entirely to much emphasis is placed upon the paintings and drawings that are made in art schools. If you go to a singing teacher, he will first give you breathing exersises, not a song. No one will expect you to sing those exersises before an audience."

"There is a vast difference between drawing, and making drawings. The things you do - over and over again - are but practice. They should represent to you only the result of an effort to study, the by-product of your mental and physical activity. Your progress is charted not on paper, but in the increased knowledge with which you look at life around you."

"THE SOONER YOU MAKE YOUR FIRST FIVE THOUSAND MISTAKES, THE SOONER YOU WILL BE ABLE TO CORRECT THEM"


Gord

RO
06-28-2005, 11:02 PM
One thing I have been taught while doing gesture drawings is to have more confident strokes and efficient strokes. My teacher also told us that picture more the action of the pose instead of how it really is visually, imagine how it feels to be in that pose.

I love seeing some of the master gesture drawings at times because the use of the medium is sooooo efficient. On some drawings you can see a line that started from the head and went to the feet… Just in one stroke… and adding line weight.

AStott
06-28-2005, 11:41 PM
Oh boy, this is a wonderful opportunity. I'm really looking forward to getting some help and practice in figure drawing. Here's the best of the 4 gesture drawings I've done so far. I've already noticed that I tend to have a major problem with drawing the torso too long. I've had to correct myself on that over and over. I fact I think this one still has the torso too long...

Done with a live model in PhotoShop with a Wacom. The sheet of paper on the tablet trick definitely seems to help some...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y1/AStott/Anatomy%20Review/Review001-04.gif

dioxide
06-28-2005, 11:56 PM
Here is what i got. Clearly looks like a copy of the posture from the sketch at the begining of this thread. I thought it was good, so here you go. It looks better on paper.

http://img95.echo.cx/img95/4097/anatomy2ql.jpg

Gord-MacDonald
06-29-2005, 01:31 AM
Some gesture drawings:

imagined:

http://cg2020.com/2dWIP/Sketchbook/2005Apr28/nude11.jpg

http://cg2020.com/2dWIP/Sketchbook/2005Apr28/nude12.jpg

from lifedrawing workshops:

http://cg2020.com/2dWIP/Sketchbook/2005Apr28/nude6.jpg

http://cg2020.com/2dWIP/Sketchbook/2005Apr28/nude8.jpg

Happy Trees
06-29-2005, 03:33 AM
To the B-Boys on the forum!



-crickets-.........................

Anyways I figured breakdancing is a great resource of outrageous poses. And though I could have done this from life I dont think any of my friends would manage this for more than 3 seconds.

I tried to represent the tension in his right arm but I dont do something this dificult justice.

http://www.myfilestash.com/userfiles/MagicRubber/AnatomyreviewBboy.jpg

Btw Rebecca I tried your peanut way of blocking out the torso but it just messes with me.
My friend taught me to block it out by spliting it in 3 parts the ribcage the midsection and the hips. If I'm wrong in doing this please tell me.

fiftyfive
06-29-2005, 06:35 AM
cool thread idea, ill have to participate when i get some free time. :thumbsup:

Rebeccak
06-29-2005, 06:37 AM
maranello55,

I revised one of your first submitted drawings. I hope you don't mind, but I reviewed this one a little differently in order to make a point:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop/REVISION_drwg1.jpg

Your original drawing is interesting because it makes a point nicely about using the peanut as a basic shape of the torso ~ if you look at your drawing, you can see that it can be taken for either a front or a back view. This is a useful tool to use when laying in the figure. It's one of the reasons why the peanut shape is so useful ~ because, depending on what features of the body you choose to add to the basic peanut shape, you can easily create the impression of either a front or back view.

So, for example, without facial features and a line to denote the buttocks, the bottom drawing which I did could be taken for a front view as easily as your drawing could be taken for a back view.

Use this trick to your advantage! You can safely assume that the peanut shape can be used in any situation. It's sort of the stem cell of your drawing toolkit - it isn't a particular thing until you tell it what it should be by adding the proper features to make it look like either a front or a back view.

Comments and crits for your drawing:I like the energy and boldness of your lines. All you require is practice, as you seem to have grasped the basic concept of gesture quickly. I would say that you should LENGTHEN your form a bit - the torso is a bit scrunched, with cartoonish rather than human proportions. This is not a bad thing if that is what you were aiming for - but I would say in general that if, in your drawings, the heads were a bit smaller, the proportions would be improved.

Good work so far! I hope this helps :)
~Rebeccak

iguana007
06-29-2005, 08:23 AM
very nice thread ... and impressive scretches .... RESPECT to all of u :buttrock:

igi

Layer01
06-29-2005, 09:33 AM
OK here are my efforts.

i have done 3 drawings so far each trying for different effects and also focusing on different things. not all of these are 2-3 min in fact only the last one is, the first two are about 15-20 min

drawing 1 (these are in order of me doing them)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y244/Layer01/drawing-1.jpg

drawing 2

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y244/Layer01/drawing-2.jpg

drawing 3

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y244/Layer01/drawing-3.jpg


Things that irk me (now in retrospect, damn hindsight):
Drawing 1, collar bone is too low *curses*
Drawing 2, various anatomy things are a bit off here, like the neck muscles.
Drawing 3, is all round weird, perspective is wack, and sizes are thus a little crazy. but i was looking more for speed in drawing them and flowing lines. si i'm not too worried about num 3.


feel free to shoot them down :) all C&C welcome

fabian84
06-29-2005, 10:26 AM
Here are a few gesture drawings I did from photos. I am concentrating on weight and where it should be applied when I draw.

Oh and thatnks againd RebeccaK for doing thhis for all of us!

http://img291.echo.cx/img291/2216/gesture016bz.jpg
http://img291.echo.cx/img291/5010/gesture021rj.jpg
Copyright - Fabian Molina

Layer01
06-29-2005, 12:02 PM
OK....after looking at my last uploads i decided i was not happy and decided to hit the table again.
now that my hand is healed i will start.. hehehe but seriously i drew this picture whitch i am so far pleased with (until my friends point out all the soon to be obvious errors lol)
i always found drawing twisting hard so i gave it another shot armed with what i have now read in books and in this thread (thanks rebeccak)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y244/Layer01/twist.jpg

-rebeccak i would love some insight on this sort of problem as drawing a torso front on/side on is easy but the second it starts twisting and turning headachs start popping up ;)
so am i on the right track? are there some rules i should be trying?

oh and i drew this in about 5 minutes, and then cleaned it up in a further 5 (ie: shading and rubbing out excess lines) so dont think it falls in the category of quick movment sketch...but you know once you pop you cant stop :D

C&C welcome

Junkoman
06-29-2005, 12:20 PM
Only manage to get two quick ones today~ C&C welcome

http://geocities.com/wtyin/Gestures02

JimiPhoenix
06-29-2005, 12:50 PM
Fantastic! I was just looking at life drawing classes in my area, but you have to be 19...that's a two year wait! Thanks Rebecca for helping us [struggling] self-taught artists out :D

Here are some quick strokes out of my head into Photoshop - I'll probably post some more from model/photo reference later if I have the time.

http://img7.echo.cx/img7/3281/davesgesturedrawing7ft.jpg

StylusMonkey
06-29-2005, 03:01 PM
Woohoo, this is an awesome thread! Time to do some sketching, haven't done life drawing for so long - sorry, I took abit longer than I should, about 15 minutes...please don't hit me =(

Great thread Rebecca!

http://www.users.on.net/~bobbyeow/Art/WomanSketch.jpg

m

Layer01
06-29-2005, 03:14 PM
hey magic man thats an awesome life drawing, wonderful feeling of texture on the back, neck and hair, very nice.
also the black block helps frame it, my only qualm, and i'm not even sure anything can be done about it is with the block is in front of here, it makes her look like she's floating, she has no weight to sit on (wrong wording but hope you get my drift)
i might have done some sheets draping down, it would cover most of her right leg but i think it would still look just as good....only better lol
or i could be completely wrong and you can tell me to shut up hehehe :D
but either way great pic.

StylusMonkey
06-29-2005, 03:32 PM
hey magic man thats an awesome life drawing, wonderful feeling of texture on the back, neck and hair, very nice.
also the black block helps frame it, my only qualm, and i'm not even sure anything can be done about it is with the block is in front of here, it makes her look like she's floating, she has no weight to sit on (wrong wording but hope you get my drift)
i might have done some sheets draping down, it would cover most of her right leg but i think it would still look just as good....only better lol
or i could be completely wrong and you can tell me to shut up hehehe :D
but either way great pic.

Okay, shut up. No wait! I'm hungry.

*just say thank you and sit down quietly*

Thank you sir. I'm a bit rusty, most of the time I draw womans with clothes on =)

Damn, that was real fun, I'm going to do another tomorrow.

JimiPhoenix
06-29-2005, 03:41 PM
I tend to look at poses like Magic Man's as resting on invisible obstacles...I sometimes do it just for fun and in order to get a more complete view of the subject from an angle that wouldn't normally be possible (unless of course imagine her sitting on a glass box).

But that's just me ^_^;;

Rebeccak
06-29-2005, 03:48 PM
It's great to see so much work being posted on this thread! Keep it up, guys! ~Rebeccak

RO
06-29-2005, 04:33 PM
http://onlinewarriors.beyondunreal.com/RandomStuff/Figure1-3.jpg

Getting lose on these gestures now. I mean My hand is getting lose and it is making it easier :)

This is of course Bruce Lee :)

reflectedfight
06-29-2005, 05:15 PM
Hey brilliant idea Rebecca and great drawings too!


Im glad you like Rubens too - did you make it to the big exhibition of his drawings? It was in the states? I think it was at the Metropolitan ? Im not sure.
What do you think of Rapheals drawings?
And what type of red chalk was that you used on your drawing? Is it conte?


Thanks

uwil
06-29-2005, 05:43 PM
excellent thread.*****

Rebeccak
06-29-2005, 05:59 PM
Xillion,

I just noticed that you had updated your posts ~ nice progress, man, especially on Update #5 ~ I am really impressed that you drew these without reference, and the freedom and fluidity evidenced in your final trace definitely shows the benefit of going through this process.

Keep on postin' :) ~ the more you do of these, the better! Looking forward to seeing your posts when we start to render a bit more...

~Rebeccak

Xillion
06-29-2005, 07:06 PM
Thanks rebeccak , your words are really appreciated!

Rebeccak
06-29-2005, 07:42 PM
magic man,

let me first congratulate you on a very lovely drawing. I have added several comments which are meant to help you as well as others see certain things ~ you need not go back to your original drawing if you don't want to do that. These comments are to be taken with a grain of salt, and I hope that they are useful...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop/WomanSketch_small_half1.jpg

Comments: lovely sensitivity to form, line (particularly on the right side or her body around the upper arm), good sensitivity to light and in how you are creating pencil strokes, nice use of opposing curves to generate form, and relatively spare use of shading to achieve form.
Her right arm and upper back in particular is rather sensitively drawn and well represented. The pose is very clear and nothing is really missing save the rendering of the feet. Overall, a very nice piece with a lot of potential and only a few shortcomings.

Crits:
1. Never shade randomly across the form as along the light part of her upper back ~ doing so destroys the otherwise serene attitude of the pose, and fights all of the other conventions which you have successfully employed to create form and even mood in the piece. All shading exists only to reinforce FORM. Curved forms produce curved shadows. Try to always draw in one direction, and never randomly in a back and forth fashion.

2. I understand that the black shading behind the figure is not a box, but I would try shading diagonally, in the direction of the light, so that your background does not fight with the serenity achieved in the figure. You can use the same broad strokes, but treat them with the same sensitivity as you have the shading on the figure, as the piece has to work as a whole.

3. Watch the width of the ankles ~ these are easy to make too small - but remember, ankles need to be strong enough to sustain a lot of weight, so they need to look as though they are strong enough to do so.

continued further down...

Rebeccak
06-29-2005, 07:43 PM
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop/WomanSketch_small_half2.jpg

~Rebeccak

Sammy
06-29-2005, 08:30 PM
Rebecca,



a noble effort with this thread on gestural analysis.
Speaking personally, I would rather look at an artists gesture drawing than the finished work.

There is a HUGE gap for most artists in regards to learning the skills of the Masters - and I'm happy as a clam that this thread is taking a shape.

Very professional critiques and drawovers ... looking forward to getting some critique on my own drawings as a matter of fact.

My hope is that people can learn to take your critique. I find it offensive when an artist either can't take criticism by getting defensive - or must abbreviate all their work with a self-hating statement like "i know it sucks ..." However, I realize that this is part of the artists 'internal struggle'. We all go through it every day.

I looked over your book recommendations - and there are certainly many of the same books I endorse to my students. There is one missing I thought I'd bring your attention to however.

I consider it one of the best books on gesture drawing:

The Vilppu Drawing Manual
ISBN 1-892053-03-9
www.vilppustudio.com (http://www.vilppustudio.com/)

Vilppu goes to great length to explain how to approach the 'peanut shape' approach to analyzing form ...

For instance, the first half of the book is spent in building up tools for the artist to use when drawing.

Filling a page with spheres and joining those spheres up like clay.

The artist develops an aptitude for overlapping forms.

Building on this he also explains how important it is to learn to draw tumbling cubes from any angle. Joining cubes with spheres and connecting them builds up this aptitude for capturing form at any angle.

Using Vilppu's approach, the artist truly learns important survival skills in drawing well.
"There are no rules, only Tools" ... one of his operative quotes found in his book and video series.

I'd write more, but it would just become redundant.
My head exploded when I read this book!
I consider my Drawing Manual book my most prized possession.


Cheers,
Sammy

AnimZiggy
06-29-2005, 08:36 PM
here we go, unfortunately i didn't have the time to use a model so i used photos, instead. quickly done in wacom. The second one is more the style i used to have, years ago.
They are yoga poses. I'm really, really rusty. Great work so far everyone! Thanks again Rebecca!

http://img191.echo.cx/img191/5435/animziggyar0018ei.jpg

Mirwen
06-29-2005, 08:46 PM
Kua! So... I read all the posts in this thread. Really difficult:)
But your confuse confuses me as well:eek: Who is Muskater?
This is really becoming hot.:bounce: I sat down and drew several two minutes drawings as you commanded. So this is a link to them: http://www.m72.wz.cz/skici01.jpg (if the link doesn't work, please tell me so) On www.m72.wz.cz (http://www.m72.wz.cz/) you can also find section of my classical drawings. But I can imagine how much time you have to have right now.
about my sketches:
1. reference used: statue of Laookon
2.-4. Michalangelo Buonarotti
5.-8. ehm... photos of ehm...
10.-15. own head (no ref.) hey. How is it possible, that my B pencil is blunt? ...It doesn't matter, go on!

Damn! I have serious problems with perspective shortcuts

And what you have done to magic man? It is cool, it is really cool!:twisted:

Rebeccak
06-29-2005, 08:53 PM
Sammy,

Some very insightful and well-appreciated comments. I blame Amazon for delaying my copy of Vilppu's Drawing Manual...well, they've delayed shipping by a few months, but for whatever reason, I've delayed ordering a copy for much longer than that...can't explain really why, except to say that my Art Center days provided me with plenty of other talented instructors to keep me occupied. But ~ definitely a good point ~ Vilppu has had an outstanding reputation for teaching in the studios around Los Angeles for YEARS, and I highly respect him. Have a lot of his images on my hd, in fact, which I ogle every now and again...

Having said that, I have tended since my Art Center days to go back to THE source ~ the old masters. There is nothing related to drawing that I can't learn from studying a drawing, painting, or sculpture by Michelangelo. As I mentioned previously, it is best to learn from THE best, and they don't get much better than the big M ~ sheepish confession ~ yep, I want to be like Mike ;).

My personal feeling is that Vilppu is a masterful teacher, but my tastes in drawing tend toward the SUPER old school. But, having said that, I certainly believe that concept artists, creature designers and so-called "fine"-artists alike ~ 2D as well as 3D ~ are better off studying from the works of the old masters vs. just from comic books and current commercial art. I am everyday amazed at the variety and quality of the work on this Website ~ but I think that artists of nearly every ilk and variety can benefit greatly from returning to the source, so to speak, to renew the amazing variety which current forms of art take. I am excited to see the present building on the past ~ and I agree that there is a MASSIVE gap in Art Education regarding Figurative Drawing ~ in my opinion, a tragedy ~ so I am hugely excited to be able to contribute my thimblefull of "knowledge" to the incredible cg art community that assembles here on a daily basis.

Thank you for your input, and I look forward to your continued posts! :)

~Rebeccak

RO
06-29-2005, 09:05 PM
I just saw you replied to a post I did sorry about not seeing it. Been doing tons of projects and this is a nice way to relax and practice at the same time :)

Thanks, I hope this thread keeps going!

I use PS for the drawings with blue and dark lines. Next drawing Ill do more than just one gesture.

Either way a lot of nicer gestures going on :)

StarlightGloom
06-29-2005, 09:08 PM
Hi Rebecca,

Awesome stuff :thumbsup:!!! Here is my quick sketch. I still have problems with the hands. Hope its not too bad for a beginner...

http://www.lotekk.com/files/slg/maleback.jpg
(c) 2005 Nina Patricia Sevilla

Rebeccak
06-29-2005, 09:21 PM
StarlightGloom!

So cool to see you here :) thanks to a friend for participating. Rather good drawing for someone who does not consider herself an artist ~ or, rather, a visual artist ;) ~ I look forward to reviewing your post!

Guys, I have updated the front page of this thread to reflect the following excellent book
recommendations:

"Vilppu Drawing Manual", by Glenn Vilppu - (self-published)

"The Human Machine: The Anatomical Structure and Mechanism of the Human Body", by George Bridgeman - Dover, publisher

George Bridgeman has a number of books in print ~ check out your favorite :).

Thanks for your posts!
~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
06-29-2005, 10:04 PM
reflectedfight wrote,

>Im glad you like Rubens too - did you make it to the big exhibition of his drawings?

No, sad to say, I only found out about the Rubens exhibition AFTER it was over, but here is a link (http://www.metmuseum.org/news/newspressrelease.asp?PressReleaseId={49CC1A0C-7093-4AB4-A33F-87DC89C09C1D}) anyway...

What do you think of Rapheals drawings?

>Of course Raphael is Raphael, but I prefer the clear musculature and anatomical definition to be found in Michelangelo and Rubens. But there are plenty of other draughtsmen whose work I love ~ among them, Fra Filippo Lippi, Tintoretto, Pontormo, Poussin, Degas ~ I should write up a big list...

>And what type of red chalk was that you used on your drawing? Is it conte?

Nope, Carb Othello pencils. These are wonderfully soft pencils which cost a bit more and are harder to find in stores sometimes, but I'm sure you can get them on line. I tend to stick to good old General 6B Pencils if I'm doing a charcoal drawing, because you can cheat less since the line is so dark - it forces you to prove what you know.

Thanks for the post! :)
~Rebeccak

danielkenobi
06-29-2005, 10:28 PM
Hi rebeca A newbe here I know that i will learn alot from your reviews

http://kenobi.pixeldeck.com/cgtalk/Sketch/gesturepose.jpg

lutonomy
06-29-2005, 10:54 PM
Rebecca,

I've been working on the method you've illustrated for getting the gesture drawings using the geometric shapes and finding it to be remarkably helpful. One part in particular where I'm still having a lot of trouble are the feet. Do you have any suggestions for getting the shapes of curved/bent feet quickly?

Thanks for the great thread!

Darktwin
06-29-2005, 10:57 PM
Hello Rebecca, its funny that this thread has started up because I've been really trying to understand the figure without references. Here is a little gesture I did with no references, not really happy with it, but here it goes anyways. l

http://onajii.com/d_sketches/gesture1.jpg

here is another gesture I whipped up, I couldn't resist.(no references)
http://onajii.com/d_sketches/gesture2.jpg

StylusMonkey
06-29-2005, 11:12 PM
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop/WomanSketch_small_half2.jpg

~Rebeccak

Whoa! Thanks so much for this Rebecca, I gotta do another one now, this stuff owns. =)

m

StylusMonkey
06-29-2005, 11:15 PM
Btw R, what other Anatomy Reviews are you going to cover in future lessons?

JWRodegher
06-29-2005, 11:17 PM
How great it is you people take the time to do this kind of stuff.

Ok now, here I go.

http://cablemodem.fibertel.com.ar/jonnhy/women003up.jpg

I hope this one is worth to review. If not, maybe the next!

cheers

el-vio
06-29-2005, 11:34 PM
some nice works there wanna go on to, 'm coming :)

danielkenobi
06-29-2005, 11:55 PM
a second try, i try to work on the same posture frome diferent perspectives, top was the hardest to me

http://kenobi.pixeldeck.com/cgtalk/Sketch/gesturepose2.jpg

Somhairle
06-29-2005, 11:56 PM
Hi Rebecca,

You have some beautiful drawings there, I always loved the style of post #59 - truely lovely piece!

here are some of my less recent drawings. A4 (Pen and Ink)....and I limited them to a max of 1 minute. they really helped me improve my *eye* for the more important details.

I haven't drawn in a while and this thread is GOLD! thanks for your efforts! I'm gonna make some new drawings in painter and post them asap.

- Somhairle

seth1
06-30-2005, 12:14 AM
Rebecca, Thanks for doing this for us all.. You have some amazing talent keep up the beatiful work...

Hb pencil on a4 paper

http://img235.echo.cx/img235/8285/humanstudy32050pm.jpg

kunal
06-30-2005, 02:57 AM
Very good going but I think its all going away from the main topic of peanut shaped gestures.
No probs though... there's always something to learn. :thumbsup:

I tried some with reference from a magazine.

Could u plz xplain more on the line of action i.e. preferred ways in differnt views(frontal, side and foreshortening etc).

meta87
06-30-2005, 05:47 AM
I also have a hard time grasping the action line. Why do people always say it is so important. I doesn't seem to help me. Probably because I don't know what the heck I'm doing.

Thanks!

dareevan
06-30-2005, 06:57 AM
Hi Rebecca. thanks for this awesome lesson.
I'm drawing a friend collegue of mine, he's a young asian. He eat potato fries while sitting in front of CPU. I found that he have a long neck and look somewhat funny which inspire me to draw a quick sketch :P
Oh bytheway, His right leg is bending, and his right foot is below the left thigh.
can you give me input and show me the flaw?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v448/dareevan/gesture.jpg

Thanks before, and best regards ^^

Joseph

Rebeccak
06-30-2005, 07:05 AM
deadplant155, reiq, Gord MacDonald, Desp#2/rog, AStott, dioxide, MagicRubber, fiftyfive, igauna007, Layer01, fabian84, Junkoman, JimiPhoenix, magic man, reflectedfight, uwil, Xillion, Sammy, anim_ziggy, Mirwen, StarlightGloom, danielkenobi, lutonomy, Darktwin, LikuidSnake, el-vio, Somhairle, seth1, kunal, and meta87:

Thank you for your posts and nice comments! It's amazing to see peoples' submissions, and it's cool to see folks start to give one another advice and inspiration!

MagicRubber wrote:

> I tried your peanut way of blocking out the torso but it just messes with me.
My friend taught me to block it out by spliting it in 3 parts the ribcage the midsection and the hips. If I'm wrong in doing this please tell me.

There is no wrong way to draw. Everyone sees things differently, and different concepts make sense to different people. For me, the peanut was an easier concept to grasp than the boxy / cylindrical style ~ quite frankly, being able to see boxes in the torso and pelvis took me a long time ~ it's all a matter of being patient, and just taking lessons such as these and others in. Learning to draw is a successive process of learning to see in different ways ~ and, just as an image is built up in layers of successive strokes, so is our understanding of drawing built up by learning different concepts and approaches to the discipline. As a discipline, drawing takes patience and work. It's not easy! So listen to your friends, take their advice, and take everything in that you learn from different sources through your own filter. Eventually, with practice, these abstract concepts will begin to make sense.

Hope this helps :)
~Rebeccak

Layer01
06-30-2005, 07:15 AM
Hi Rebecca,

You have some beautiful drawings there, I always loved the style of post #59 - truely lovely piece!

here are some of my less recent drawings. A4 (Pen and Ink)....and I limited them to a max of 1 minute. they really helped me improve my *eye* for the more important details.

I haven't drawn in a while and this thread is GOLD! thanks for your efforts! I'm gonna make some new drawings in painter and post them asap.

- Somhairle

i like those drawings, they have a good feel to them, and very expressive lines, also the semi water colouring looks awesome.
great stuff
my only qualm is that the sumo's get a little lost in the lines towards their center, sort of looks too scribbly.
but great stuff :D

Layer01
06-30-2005, 07:18 AM
Rebecca, Thanks for doing this for us all.. You have some amazing talent keep up the beatiful work...

Hb pencil on a4 paper

http://img235.echo.cx/img235/8285/humanstudy32050pm.jpg

nice work, very nice constrast in your shading. though i think you should have more variation in greys, more transition from white to black. unless you were going for the hard black on white shadowed look.
also the sole of the foot looks weird.
good stuff though ;)

StylusMonkey
06-30-2005, 07:51 AM
Another sketch about 1/2 an hour, using a shitty pencil I found my dog chewing. Strangest part? I don't even have a dog... =(

http://www.users.on.net/~bobbyeow/Art/Huddle.jpg

StylusMonkey
06-30-2005, 07:52 AM
Rebecca, Thanks for doing this for us all.. You have some amazing talent keep up the beatiful work...

Hb pencil on a4 paper

http://img235.echo.cx/img235/8285/humanstudy32050pm.jpg

I think this one looks great, very stylistic and still brings the point across realistically *applause*

JimiPhoenix
06-30-2005, 10:23 AM
Amazing stuff people...But weren't we meant to do be doing gesture drawings? ^_^;;

Also, Rebecca, with regard to going back to the source, does that mean you'll be conducting this review in as a classical a style as possible? If so...sweet! :thumbsup:

Kalorlo
06-30-2005, 10:34 AM
http://www.kellyhouse.force9.co.uk/art/anatomy/anatomy05.jpg

Another one. I did the sketch... then really liked the lighting and got a bit carried away!
I'm still not sure if my sketches are suffiently "gesturey" enough - I'm trying not to put too much into them, but I don't know if I'm succeeding.


Edit: a very quick try at the single line style.

http://www.kellyhouse.force9.co.uk/art/anatomy/anatomy05b.jpg

commodore
06-30-2005, 10:38 AM
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/9776/gestures9uc.jpg
I used images from google for reference.

Michiel t.B.
06-30-2005, 11:27 AM
Oh my, Kalorlo! :eek: That's amazingly good work you have there! Very very awesome lighting, it looks so realistic!

I'll post my work soon btw...

StylusMonkey
06-30-2005, 12:07 PM
Another, sketch of The Fallen Gaul - dammit, I think I've totally missed the point of the thread though =(

http://www.users.on.net/~bobbyeow/Art/FallenGaul.jpg

JimiPhoenix
06-30-2005, 12:36 PM
Another, sketch of The Fallen Gaul - dammit, I think I've totally missed the point of the thread though =(

Perhaps, but who cares when it's this good ;)

Nazirull
06-30-2005, 12:57 PM
Hah!! one day away and im already off the pace....This thread is growing up fast! Great participation from everyone....

And rebeccak.......thanks alot for your invaluable review! I will incorporate them into my next piece....and i think the final one....to be chosen by you end of this week?

Layer01
06-30-2005, 01:20 PM
Another, sketch of The Fallen Gaul - dammit, I think I've totally missed the point of the thread though =(



sweet jesus. thats awsome :D
love that pic....no comments, just great!
who cares if its OT lol its worth it

Layer01
06-30-2005, 01:28 PM
ok...i feel somewhat stupid posting this dodgy pic after seeing Magic man's fallen dude....*curse you MM* :D

anyway here is another pic that i just drew, and i too also just realised that i have gone WAYYYY of topic..ah well, i cant help it, and besides its helping get better at drawing, which is all that counts i guess.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y244/Layer01/shooting-girl.jpg

i drew this of the top of my head with no refs....maybe that shows lol. anyway i tried to get a dynamic pose and then just started adding to it..and voila!
whatcha think?
any anatomy guru's care to point out the mistakes i have made? thanks :)

oh and magic man i just noticed your from australia! wooo i'm in teh canberra :thumbsup:

C1imaX
06-30-2005, 01:32 PM
Fast sketch, took about 20-30 mins. I am still learning the basics and trying to do faster sketches. I spent a lot of time on the feet. I seem to struggle with hands and feets for some reason. Practice! Practice!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/C1imaX/scan00013.jpg

Mirwen
06-30-2005, 01:37 PM
Perhaps, but who cares when it's this good ;)
I care.:) Well... It's everybody's own thing, what she or he posts in this thread. But I guess, that meaning of this thread is return to basics (or just begining) So what we should do (I do not say we must) is working on 2-minutes sketches? Right?
And in time, when we grasp basics (At least a little) we shall be able to move to the next level. Right?:wise:
;)
So no shading - only 2-MINUTES sketches. This is just my opinion. If somebody (Especially Rebecca) has another idea, just tell me so. I like discussions.:twisted:

StylusMonkey
06-30-2005, 01:39 PM
oh and magic man i just noticed your from australia! wooo i'm in teh canberra :thumbsup:

Ha, nice to see more Aussies here, I'm in Adelaide - I used to go to university with Leonard - the cofounder of this site and cgnetworks, I did a couple of programming projects with him ah so long ago, my youth is dast wasted.

StylusMonkey
06-30-2005, 01:41 PM
I care.:) Well... It's everybody's own thing, what she or he posts in this thread. But I guess, that meaning of this thread is return to basics (or just begining) So what we should do (I do not say we must) is working on 2-minutes sketches? Right?
And in time, when we grasp basics (At least a little) we shall be able to move to the next level. Right?:wise:
;)
So no shading - only 2-MINUTES sketches. This is just my opinion. If somebody (Especially Rebecca) has another idea, just tell me so. I like discussions.:twisted:

Totally on the money, I'm not going to post any more finished sketches, only gestural. Patience is what we need.

Mirwen
06-30-2005, 02:00 PM
ok...i feel somewhat stupid posting this dodgy pic after seeing Magic man's fallen dude....*curse you MM* :D

anyway here is another pic that i just drew, and i too also just realised that i have gone WAYYYY of topic..ah well, i cant help it, and besides its helping get better at drawing, which is all that counts i guess.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y244/Layer01/shooting-girl.jpg

i drew this of the top of my head with no refs....maybe that shows lol. anyway i tried to get a dynamic pose and then just started adding to it..and voila!
whatcha think?
any anatomy guru's care to point out the mistakes i have made? thanks :)

oh and magic man i just noticed your from australia! wooo i'm in teh canberra :thumbsup:

I don't know if you care about my advices. Because I am not guru, as you wanted. I am just ill.:D
To me... She looks like drawn with idea of Michalangelo- there are no women, only men. Because of her muscles:) heh have you ever seen any woman culturist? They have no brests and their faces look very brutal and man-like. But without this- Her left leg seems to me a bit shoter than the other one. And her righ hand is too big in my opinion. The hand should be mostly as big (or large) as is the face. Such large hands do only Blizzard artists:).Also this hand is much bigger than the other one. I know almost nothing about muscles, so I can't tell you what (and if) you do wrong. But otherwise, it is very nice dynamic movement it this drawing.
If you don't like my opinion, just tell me so. And I will never do it again to you :)

Layer01
06-30-2005, 02:43 PM
thanks for the coments mirwen, i agree the hand is too big, i kept making it smaller and smaller and in the end i just settled on that size...maybe i should have pressed on a bit more, ah well. heheh yeah she is a bit over muscled. maybe she is on steriods, i guess its ok since i was trying to go for musle definition...even if that did make her manly-er lol :D
as for the legs, i'm not sure i agree with you on this one (second opinion anyone?) i could be wrong but to my eyes they are the right length its just one is bent and also is further from the viewer. but if you measure from the hip to the knee on the left i think its the same as the right, and same for the knee to the ankle....but i could just have bias eyes heh :p
anyway thank you very much for your comments, they help me a lot in seeing how other people see my work, plus you see stuff i miss.

also all this talk of going of topic made me feel very guilty so i whipped up some 2 min gesture scetches, let me know what you think ( i see now that the girls leg is too short..but meh)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y244/Layer01/2-min.jpg

Rebeccak
06-30-2005, 05:59 PM
Wow, guys, the recent work is really amazing! Some of you *no names mentioned magic man* have overshot, which is ok ;) but I do want to emphasize the basics in this first portion of the thread. *That being said* continue to post work, it's GREAT to see such a great variety of work being posted, and I will try to post review as soon as I can.

Great job, guys! Keep it up!!!

~Rebeccak

NOOB!
06-30-2005, 06:13 PM
thanks for the coments mirwen, i agree the hand is too big, i kept making it smaller and smaller and in the end i just settled on that size...maybe i should have pressed on a bit more, ah well. heheh yeah she is a bit over muscled. maybe she is on steriods, i guess its ok since i was trying to go for musle definition...even if that did make her manly-er lol :D
as for the legs, i'm not sure i agree with you on this one (second opinion anyone?) i could be wrong but to my eyes they are the right length its just one is bent and also is further from the viewer. but if you measure from the hip to the knee on the left i think its the same as the right, and same for the knee to the ankle....but i could just have bias eyes heh :p
anyway thank you very much for your comments, they help me a lot in seeing how other people see my work, plus you see stuff i miss.

also all this talk of going of topic made me feel very guilty so i whipped up some 2 min gesture scetches, let me know what you think ( i see now that the girls leg is too short..but meh)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y244/Layer01/2-min.jpg

whoa,i did two poses EXACTLY like that for a book i was published in............thats odd.they gave me model ref of these exact poses...maybe u got em too.bah.

edit: I wish rebbeca wud crit my pics so i cud continue working on my latest piece...nudge nudge,wink wink,hint hint.:D

Rebeccak
06-30-2005, 08:51 PM
NOOB, :)

You're on my list, my apologies :) I will try to get some stuff up tonight :)

~Rebeccak

StylusMonkey
06-30-2005, 11:35 PM
=|

http://www.users.on.net/~bobbyeow/Art/Gestural.jpg

Rebeccak
06-30-2005, 11:44 PM
magic man,

okay, that's just funny :) no hijacking apologies necessary! This is a democratic thread ~ I am definitely not the Mao or Hitler of Draughtsmanship ;) ~so don't worry.

Ah, and no need to revert or pretend that your work is not stunning ~ please continue to contribute your work and share it with the world! :) it is inspiring to see a mix of styles and intrepretations. Everyone is learning ~ so hang in there, we'll try to make it challenging for you!

lol :)
~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
06-30-2005, 11:46 PM
~Sidebar, I apologize for not having posted more reviews ~ a surprisingly busy week has precluded me from completing as many as I would have wished ~ but continue to post, and we'll start the new lesson soon for those of you *magic man* who are itching to show your work ~ bring it on! It's wonderful to see. :)

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
07-01-2005, 12:12 AM
fabian84,

You're up next! Thank you for your posts :) I hope you continue to do so in the future ~

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop/REVISION_gesture016bz_new.jpg

Comments: What I like about your drawings is the loose style and the light touch ~ you do not seem to be bearing down too much on the pen or pencil which you are using, which is good for achieving a unified sense of flow in a drawing. I think you have particularly grasped the feeling of the curves around the legs, and seem at ease with doing so.

Crits: I would, however, say that you seem less confident with the torso ~ when establishing volume using only curves with no shading, all of the responsibility for establishing form rests upon how curves interact and flow.

I like that you've put in the center line of the figure and seem to have established the basic flow of the figure first. Down the line, we will talk about specific bones and muscles, but for the time being, it is just important to concentrate on getting the loose action of the pose down on paper. You can always focus your gaze more narrowly later on specific anatomical structures ~ but for the time being, I think that you are doing a decent job of capturing the essence of the figure.

Do you draw something everyday? You should try to get into the habit. Drawing is 90% practice. I find that very little of it is talent.

Good luck, and keep on posting! :)

~Rebeccak

Somhairle
07-01-2005, 12:40 AM
Layer 01: thanks for the comments/crits. I like your "leg stretch" (on the bottom)...its getting looser! :)

Ok, I limited myself to the 2 min maximum time for a series of gestures. Its hard to start breaking it back down to basics...this is my first life gesture in painter (drawn from a photo download via google)

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/dreoilin/samuelblake_life_01.jpg

her back is way too short, but I liked the general feeling of the drawing.

- Somhairle

Somhairle
07-01-2005, 12:49 AM
Does anyone have any links to some great dynamic pose photographs (the free kind)? Domai.com was the only one I've seen with good res/lighting but they're not so good for our needs.

Just a thought....then, we could all perhaps work on on the same, say 5 images. it would feel more like a life drawing class (thats of course if your making them digitally).

- Somhairle

WyattHarris
07-01-2005, 12:50 AM
Thank you very much for your response earlier. I figured the question of reference was common sense, "If you need it use it," but I always like to listen to other opinions.

Well, it took me longer than 2 minutes, more like 15. Let me have it, be nasty if you want, I'm all ears.

Thanks.

http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/anatomy/gesture1.jpg

Rebeccak
07-01-2005, 12:50 AM
Somhairle,

I am rapidly becoming a fan of your work. Your first two posts were beautiful, I was talking about them with my friends, and we all agreed that there was not much to critique ~ so please continue to post your work.

I LOVE gestural drawings, this one is a good example of how sometimes less can be so much MORE. Drawings can easily become labored over and thus lose their life ~ the same with paintings ~ so it is always refreshing to see the loose, confident, and understated lines and tones of a well-executed gesture drawing.

I look forward to seeing more of your work!

What is your training and background, so that others could benefit from knowing?

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
07-01-2005, 12:52 AM
WyattHarris,

Well-executed, well thought out drawing ~ thank you for posting it. Tell me, is this pencil or pen?

~Rebeccak

CBee
07-01-2005, 12:55 AM
Rebecca, thanks for going through all this to help everyone out. I think you're earning sainthood points for all your selfless efforts. :thumbsup:

Ok, here's my gesture drawing. Based on photo ref of Michelangelo's David. 6B pencil on sketch paper. Not sure how long it took but it was about 5 min. Watching the clock was making me paranoid.

You'll notice that David is wearing what looks like a bikini bottom.... This was on purpose. Call it creative licence. It had absolutely nothing to do with my poor shading skills... really. :D

WyattHarris
07-01-2005, 12:56 AM
.3mm Mechanical pencil. First rough pass using 4H lead, second solid pass using HB.

The output is a result of the scanner washing it out and photoshop bringing back the hard edges.

Rebeccak
07-01-2005, 12:57 AM
Somhairle wrote:

>Does anyone have any links to some great dynamic pose photographs (the free kind)? Domai.com was the only one I've seen with good res/lighting but they're not so good for our needs.

>Just a thought....then, we could all perhaps work on on the same, say 5 images. it would feel more like a life drawing class (thats of course if your making them digitally).

Guys, this is an excellent point. I want to continue to structure the lessons around specific topics ~ however, I think that working off the same set of photos / from the same reference is an excellent idea for certain topics.

Let's throw it open to discussion - what do you guys think?

~Rebeccak

WyattHarris
07-01-2005, 01:00 AM
I would do it if the censensus wants it, but I don't like using someone elses ideas. The above picture just popped in my head and I had to post it. Hmm... perhaps focus it around 5 reference pics with exceptions being okay.

Xillion
07-01-2005, 01:04 AM
can't link any more updates on the first post...so... here is another quick one

Update #8: a martial art pose...no reference
to rebeccak: no need to hurry :) ...it's time to go to bed here (3.15 Am)!!! and...well...the drawing really is nothing special :) I's just that I have so much fun drawing these that I'm flooding the thread! Next time I'll try sketching on paper, I bet the result would be better).
Thanks again for your devotion to help us!

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/89/study92yq.th.jpg (http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=study92yq.jpg)

Update #9: a few more poses in Photoshop without reference

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/5248/moreposes0xb.th.jpg (http://img32.imageshack.us/my.php?image=moreposes0xb.jpg)

Rebeccak
07-01-2005, 01:05 AM
CBee :)

Thank you for posting! I think it is a great idea to work from photos of statues ~ they are typically perfect ~ and I know it is a little nerve-wracking to put an artificial time limit on things, but trust me, doing fast sketches and gesture drawings HELPS.

From looking at your post, right off the bat I would say that he needs more of a lower torso than he's got ~ eg, his pelvis is a bit short.

A good exercise which we used to do in school was to take tracing paper and just trace the outline of the torso - the whole of the body minus the limbs and the head - just to see what our misconceptions were about form. It is frequently easy to misrepresent form because we have preconceived notions, and we don't observe.

I have a suggestion: place tracing paper over the same photo or a printout of the photo rather, and trace the figure in its entirety, but not the interior forms, eg, stomach muscles, veins, etc.

This obviously is not meant to be a finished drawing, but a good exercise to embed the knowledge of form into your mind and hand.

But I think the upper torso is strong ~ keep working, and keep posting! :) And thank you for your comments. I think this is a great opportunity, and it's nice to see everyone contributing to one another's work. That's the best thing about a "class" ~ you learn a LOT from other students.

~Rebeccak

CBee
07-01-2005, 01:05 AM
Sounds like a good idea to me.

Rebeccak
07-01-2005, 01:06 AM
Xillion,

Will have to look at your post tomorrow ~ unfortunately, my security settings at home are such that I can't view all images that are posted, but I CAN view them at work. I feel a little like a bat! But I look forward to seeing your post.

~Rebeccak

WyattHarris
07-01-2005, 01:09 AM
WyattHarris,

Well-executed, well thought out drawing ~ thank you for posting it. Tell me, is this pencil or pen?

~Rebeccak

Agh, you're killin me! Why, what about the pencil? What's wrong with my pic, there must be something wrong. Come on woman. :D Just kidding. I'm drawing another while I'm waiting for your response.

Thanks for your time.

CBee
07-01-2005, 01:10 AM
Thanks for the advice Rebecca. Now I just have to go find some tracing paper...:)

Rebeccak
07-01-2005, 01:12 AM
WyattHarris wrote:

> I would do it (meaning have everyone work from the same reference) if the censensus wants it, but I don't like using someone elses ideas. The above picture just popped in my head and I had to post it. Hmm... perhaps focus it around 5 reference pics with exceptions being okay.

I think that the idea of working from the same reference works the best when talking about bones and muscles - since these are less creative works than study pieces - so that is an idea to keep in mind.

I want to give people the freedom to do what they want within certain parameters, so we could leave it open-ended, as in, if some people want to work from the same reference, they are welcome too, and other folks can post what they wish, or hop onto drawing from the same reference. No one is being graded, so this is less about conformity or uniformity than finding the formula that works best for individuals.

Further comments / suggestions welcome...

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
07-01-2005, 01:15 AM
CBee wrote:

>Thanks for the advice Rebecca. Now I just have to go find some tracing paper...

No problem :) Or, feel free to do it (tracing) in Photoshop :)

WyattHarris wrote:

>Agh, you're killin me! Why, what about the pencil? What's wrong with my pic, there must be something wrong. Come on woman.

Lol! Ok, chatting with you people is way too entertaining, feel free to talk amongst yourselves while I go work up some reviews...

Cool to see a little community forming!

~Rebeccak

WyattHarris
07-01-2005, 01:17 AM
I think that the idea of working from the same reference works the best when talking about bones and muscles - since these are less creative works than study pieces - so that is an idea to keep in mind. {snip}


Hey, it's your show, I'll do whatever you think is best.

Darktwin
07-01-2005, 01:19 AM
Hey, it's your show, I'll do whatever you think is best.]

indeed, I feel the same way, which ever direction you feel is best rebecca, or if you'd rather leave it up to the conensus of the group, thats cool with me also, either way its cool.

Rebeccak
07-01-2005, 01:25 AM
I think we should try ONE session where we work from the same reference. I'll think about how we could incorporate it for the next lesson.

Then we can go from there, depending on what folks like...

~Rebeccak

sphere
07-01-2005, 01:32 AM
I think we should try ONE session where we work from the same reference. I'll think about how we could incorporate it for the next lesson.

Then we can go from there, depending on what folks like...

~Rebeccak

I think that's a great idea.

I should really get a start on this before you move onto the next session. I'll try to get something posted asap. I know it should only take a few minutes but I just haven't got around to it.

Somhairle
07-01-2005, 01:33 AM
Hi Rebecca,

Wow! thanks for your comments! I'm glad to see you liked my last gesture as being honest, I havn't drawn "gestures"/life in a very, very long time (+/- 7 years - shameful, I know!).

Well, I studied Animation: 1 year crash course and a 3 year Diploma course in "Ballyfermot Senior College", Co. Dublin, Ireland (1993-97). The life drawing classes were given once a week with either male or female nudes (and once with some orange boxes for an elderly male model to stand on!!! funny story)...they had a nice variety of models and ages +/- (male 30, female 25, male 80 (iggy pop clone - great for muscle work - if you could get him to stand still, poor guy) and some over weights, here and there.

Like I said, I havn't drawn in quite a while and I was just thinking of checking for any local life classes. Then WHAM! I saw this thread and its just great timing! Its been a great refresher for me...following your critiques and trying to apply what you tell others to my own work.

A really good way I warmed up was by drawing tons and tons for varying circles on an A3 pad...then I went to painter (Man, I'm so rusty!)

Rebecca, please give me a harsh "once over" on my last drawing when you can. Again, thank you so much for putting the effort into this thread!

- Somhairle

Rebeccak
07-01-2005, 01:39 AM
sphere wrote:

>I should really get a start on this before you move onto the next session. I'll try to get something posted asap.

We'd love to see your work! Please post when you can, but don't freak out about it, as our next topic is related (but different) to gesture drawings. But I think it's a good idea to just get something out there ~ even if it's not your best work, something you've tried on.


Somhairle wrote:

>A really good way I warmed up was by drawing tons and tons for varying circles on an A3 pad...

Thanks for sharing! In fact, I would encourage you guys to share whatever tips and tricks you know, to help each other out. In school, I learned as much for they guy / gal sitting next to me as I did from the teacher, and I'm sure your experiences are much the same ~

~Keep on posting :)

WyattHarris
07-01-2005, 01:39 AM
Okay 1 more and that will do it for me this time.

Better, 5 min. per character this time. I just don't think I'm going to get much faster than that but it was pretty fun scribbling as fast as I could. :thumbsup:

http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/anatomy/gesture2.jpg

Rebeccak
07-01-2005, 01:40 AM
BTW, what do you guys think that the interest level would be in having this become a Forum under WIP?

~Rebeccak

WyattHarris
07-01-2005, 01:43 AM
I think this goes right up there with the daily sketch forum. Except you know... weekly.

RO
07-01-2005, 01:48 AM
No ref on this one just a basic figure. After the rough was done I went back and made some line have more weight just so it is clear.

Edit: Kind of funny but I like these more than the ones I took a ref for hehe...
http://onlinewarriors.beyondunreal.com/RandomStuff/Figure1-4.jpg

I like the idea of have a very good ref pictures... around 5 of them for the later stuff like rendering and stuff.

Somhairle
07-01-2005, 02:07 AM
Rebecca: "...a Forum under WIP?"
Go for it!

WyattHarris:
I remember when I started, I had the same "equal line quality" all over my drawings too!

don't try to nail to whole outline of the geometric shape, the loosest part of your last drawing was the right foot (his right) of the guy being kicked. how did you feel when you were drawing that one part? try to be more "haphazard" with what you see. try to imagine your "tracing" the forms with your finger-tip.

Try some of these:

* Use the SIDE part of your pencil nib to make the drawings (doing this with conte is excellent, like in rebeccas drawings)

* Try to imagine the geometric shapes in your head, ie place them mentally on the page, and then connect these mental shapes on the paper. try to see through your model in 3 dimensions.

* Flip your drawings over the other way and look at the reverse. do you still like it? or are there some areas that really need fixing?

* Draw lots of circles with your medium (on old newspaper): small ones with your fingers, bigger ones with your wrist, bigger ones with your elbow, bigger ones with your shoulder. and try to use only THAT part of your arm.

- Hope these help

Rebeccak
07-01-2005, 02:22 AM
Some notes about using CURVES that are NOT symmetrical to create FORM:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Opposing_Demo_small_1.jpg

Rebeccak
07-01-2005, 02:23 AM
Developing the idea...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/Opposing_Demo_small_2.jpg

~Rebeccak

Somhairle
07-01-2005, 02:35 AM
Hi Rebecca,

just a quick question, is that conte your using in your personal sketches? or something else? your line quality is ace!

RO
07-01-2005, 02:41 AM
I was going to put some tips and did a refresh and saw your post rebeccak. Pretty much says more than words just with those pics hehe. Yep I have a few () in some places. I also agree your line flow is nice. I got to make a special brush for PS that can have about the same feel.

Rebeccak
07-01-2005, 02:52 AM
hold on a sec, will post some pics of charcoal style...

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
07-01-2005, 03:03 AM
Thanks, Somhairle and Desp#2/Rog! Voila...the humble tools of the trade!

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop/tools_of_trade.jpg

It ain't a BOXX ;) but it works for my purposes ~ 6B General's Charcoal pencils, sharpened with an exacto knife, and sanded on a sanding pad ~ tres old school! If you sharpen and sand your pencils this way, you'll have a nice pointed surface for crisp lines, and a nice
smooth side for shading ~ woo!

*Note neat freak paper towels...

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
07-01-2005, 03:14 AM
weapon of choice...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop/pencil_ooh_yeah.jpg

RO
07-01-2005, 03:22 AM
After seeing your brush stroke I went in and tested some stuff in ps to see if I could get something with more grain and texture for it. ALso tried to follow some of those instructions about none () and see what I could do. I said I would post one peice a day so sorry about that. A little messy compared to your stroke but Ill try to do them more like this now.

http://onlinewarriors.beyondunreal.com/RandomStuff/Figure1-5.jpg

Rebeccak
07-01-2005, 03:28 AM
Desp#2/rog ~

Nice! The brush settings do rather approximate the charcoal strokes - maybe if you could get the strokes to look more dry, rather than like wet media? Does anyone have any suggestions for how to make a charcoal / calligraphic brush?

Only crit I would say right now about the drawing itself is, watch the axis of the shoulder blades ~ draw an imaginary line between them, and see if it jives with the overall direction of the back. I think his left shoulder blade is a bit low, but I really like the looseness of this drawing! Definitely keep going in this direction!

Thanks for the post!
~Rebeccak

WyattHarris
07-01-2005, 03:31 AM
WyattHarris:
I remember when I started, I had the same "equal line quality" all over my drawings too!

don't try to nail to whole outline of the geometric shape, the loosest part of your last drawing was the right foot (his right) of the guy being kicked. how did you feel when you

When you started... cute.

These are just gesture drawings, not finished anything. I was shooting for a manaquin, not a real figure. Those I suppose will come in the next exercise.

Rebeccak
07-01-2005, 03:44 AM
Meh, I think I've asked quite a few of you to go back a few steps from where you are...
no worries ~ I frankly had the WORST TIME understanding the basic blocky forms, peanut shape, etc ~ everything that comes into handy LATER when you're looking down the barrel of an impossible to figure out figure and you're grasping at straws, and trying to remember what it said in "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" book, etc. ~ ah...the joy...

Yes, these drawings do look basic, but don't forget their importance. And...don't underestimate the real skills of the folks I'm forcing to do these exercises... ;)

~Rebeccak

RO
07-01-2005, 03:46 AM
Desp#2/rog ~

Nice! The brush settings do rather approximate the charcoal strokes - maybe if you could get the strokes to look more dry, rather than like wet media? Does anyone have any suggestions for how to make a charcoal / calligraphic brush?

Only crit I would say right now about the drawing itself is, watch the axis of the shoulder blades ~ draw an imaginary line between them, and see if it jives with the overall direction of the back. I think his left shoulder blade is a bit low, but I really like the looseness of this drawing! Definitely keep going in this direction!

Thanks for the post!
~Rebeccak

Thanks :)

Ill keep working on stuff here. As long as I get some time in the day to do something Ill post something for sure. Besides I just got out of Figure drawing class and need to keep going. And this is summer break so doing a bit of drawing on break is great way to keep those muscles warm and ready for next semester.



I agree the blade is a bit low. I did draw a line for shoulder too, but I think I just did it too quick and did not pay attention and now that I see it more I think the width of the shoulder and rear is about the same and the shoulders should be a tad wider than the rear. just tad more. Thanks for the crit :) Ill keep trying with the brush and see if I can get it closer to a charcoal feel.



Thanks again for this awesome thread.

WyattHarris
07-01-2005, 04:08 AM
Last one, this time for real. :D

So, not so manaquiny (that can't be a word) this time and guess what. Only 3 min. You really are stretching me out of my normal routine.

I also changed my normal scan procedure. I usually don't scan for display, only for use as a reference when I work on the computer. I adjusted the highlights, midtones, and shadows settings. I think this shows the sketchyness (word?) much better.

I think I'm going to bed before I stomp on the english language any more.

Again, thanks for your time Rebekka. Good night.

http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/anatomy/gesture3.jpg

Rebeccak
07-01-2005, 04:32 AM
My apologies, it's late, and I just had to post this in response to magic man's funny post:


http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop/despair.jpg

Rebeccak
07-01-2005, 05:13 AM
WyattHarris,

Here is a review of one of your earlier sketches:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/REVISED_wyattharris_small2.jpg






Comments: you did a good job with laying in the gesture of the form in a blocky / cylindrical way, and because of your carefulness, the pose is very clear. I would say that this type of drawing, though it appears a bit stiff, is a really good way to learn the basic nature of human form. Later, we will tweak these basic forms to make more sophisticated structures, but without that underlying knowledge, it will be much easier to fail when approaching more sophisticated problems and approaches to drawing.

As for myself, I always think that it's better to cling to a kickboard when learning how to swim before I get out into the ocean and drown. Ah...I'm deep ;)

Good post! :)

~Rebeccak

lokki
07-01-2005, 05:28 AM
:p

Just throwing my hat in to soak up some of the goodness!

StylusMonkey
07-01-2005, 06:36 AM
Somhairle wrote:

>Does anyone have any links to some great dynamic pose photographs (the free kind)? Domai.com was the only one I've seen with good res/lighting but they're not so good for our needs.

>Just a thought....then, we could all perhaps work on on the same, say 5 images. it would feel more like a life drawing class (thats of course if your making them digitally).

Guys, this is an excellent point. I want to continue to structure the lessons around specific topics ~ however, I think that working off the same set of photos / from the same reference is an excellent idea for certain topics.

Let's throw it open to discussion - what do you guys think?

~Rebeccak

I definitely like the idea, it will save my lazy ass having to look for reference pics.

StylusMonkey
07-01-2005, 06:41 AM
My apologies, it's late, and I just had to post this in response to magic man's funny post:


http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop/despair.jpg

...dad, that teacher is making fun of me again!!!

Haha, I got a chuckle outta that one.

default-rol
07-01-2005, 07:20 AM
Boy do I need to post something quick! Been busy all week, but will really try to get something on-line at some point today. Would love to be told how to improve. The clock ticks down...

Layer01
07-01-2005, 07:27 AM
whoa,i did two poses EXACTLY like that for a book i was published in............thats odd.they gave me model ref of these exact poses...maybe u got em too.bah.


crazy lol, i got the poses from a book called Anatomy for the fantasy artist (not a bad book, no hogarth, but usefull in parts)

GZ
07-01-2005, 07:57 AM
Hi

Thanks For such a Great Thread .
After a couple of hours Practicing on the stuff the results are :

https://www.sharemation.com/GordonFreeman3/My_Drawing.jpg


(I used marker and graphite)
Sorry for this huge pic .

default-rol
07-01-2005, 08:00 AM
Quick question to Rebecca or insightful forum members -

The "sweeping gesture curve" that defines the torso, is that curve the "spine" that you build the bulk of the torso around, or the outline that defines the limits of positive/negative space?

I always wanted to ask that!:D

Didn't want to hijack the thread with my witterings so I edited my post. Heres my go - 10 min in painter (3 of those working out how to get a good line texture and colour...) Sorry she's got no arms or legs... Reference used, but not adhered to. Crit please!

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/6660/sepiadrawingtorso8hx.gif

ZuraK
07-01-2005, 10:56 AM
Another atempt:
http://z-software.dyndns.org/Attempt2.jpg
Oops, forgot copyright stuff, tho i don't think anyone wants it =)

(Z)

Rebeccak
07-01-2005, 11:10 AM
default.rol wrote:

>The "sweeping gesture curve" that defines the torso, is that curve the "spine" that you build the bulk of the torso around, or the outline that defines the limits of positive/negative space?

Firstly, that's a nice drawing you've got there...the consistent line weight is nice, it shows that there is a confidence in your approach to this drawing.

I would say really emphasize the offset curves on either side of the body ~ is this a digital or a traditional piece? If it is digital, then SAVE your current version, and on a top layer in Photoshop, use a slightly darker brownish tone to add, while maintaining the spirit of the piece, slightly darker emphasis on curves which oppose each other to define form (see the previous post about OPPOSING CURVES).

In response to your question about the "sweeping gesture curve" ~ it just kind of depends. I think that the #1 sweeping curve that should be established is the central axis of the body ~ granted, it may not ALWAYS be curved - eg, the figure is standing straight - but a straight pose is typically pretty boring. I think the head should be established first, then the central axis of the body as defined by the points connecting the pit of the neck down the sternum and rigcage, through the belly button, to the base of the pelvis. It's the contrast of curves and angles in a gesture drawing that make it interesting, as well as the unity achieved in a good one by OTHER sweeping, gesture curves which defined the outline of the body like you mention.

There are really no hard and fast rules ~ just approaches to building form.

In short:
1. DIRECTION OF HEAD should be established first
2. CENTRAL AXIS OF BODY should be established second - this can be a sweeping gesture curve.
3. BULK OF TORSO should be established only after the first two have been described. The bulk of the torso and the "OUTLINE" of the body can also be created with sweeping gesture curves.

Well-placed CURVES in general which are offset from one another are what make gesture drawings so interesting - they MOVE THE EYE AROUND, which is key.

Straight lines don't move the eye around the page, and the viewer gets "bored".

Curves - woo!

Hope this helps! :)
~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
07-01-2005, 11:17 AM
Kalorlo,

BTW, I haven't had the chance to review your work yet, but I really like the direction in which you're heading. So far, your gestures are both nicely loose and carefully studied at the same time, so keep it up! Are you working in traditional or digital medium? It's getting hard to tell these days! Which is very much a compliment.

~Rebeccak

...The workday beckons!

Kalorlo
07-01-2005, 12:29 PM
Rebecca: Thanks! I'm working digitally - Photoshop and Wacom.

Here's today's try, which... I don't think turned out very well. Should probably have warmed up a bit on an easier pose first! :)

The ref had long hair that obscured the right shoulder entirely, which didn't help.

http://www.kellyhouse.force9.co.uk/art/anatomy/anatomy06.jpg

1 - I added the highlighting because it was rather hard to see what was going on otherwise.
2 - very quick experiment, not lifting pen, though I added the lightest bits on top again to make it a bit easier to see.
3 - trace of the actual picture.
4 - tried again, with the trace layer switched off while I was drawing. Went over the original peanut shape in blue.

AnimZiggy
07-01-2005, 12:46 PM
i want some critique too :wise: my post page 10 (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=253289&page=10&pp=15)

default-rol
07-01-2005, 12:51 PM
hi RebeccaK

Thanks for the review! Thats a great help to me. I am working digitally in Coral Painter and a wacom for this thread as I'm trying to learn the software.

Will try to post another, more exciting gesture in the next day or so if time allows it.

Thx again

MIKE

JimiPhoenix
07-01-2005, 12:52 PM
=|

http://www.users.on.net/%7Ebobbyeow/Art/Gestural.jpg

Mehehehehehe! (<-- helium-pitched evil laugh)
MM, you crack me up :D

Rebeccak
07-01-2005, 01:00 PM
anim_ziggy,

My apologies! I will definitely have time to critique your work today :) Ah...Fridays are always light.

Sorry for the delay! :)

~Rebeccak

Mirwen
07-01-2005, 02:10 PM
Okay 1 more and that will do it for me this time.

Better, 5 min. per character this time. I just don't think I'm going to get much faster than that but it was pretty fun scribbling as fast as I could. :thumbsup:

http://www.wyattharris.com/cgtalk/anatomy/gesture2.jpg
http://m72.wz.cz/attack.jpg
I don't know much about anytomy, but I think I know something about reactions of human body. Because I attend martial-arts (Ju-Jutsu) trainings three times a week. And I am doing this more than for six years. I dare to say, that I know, what happens, when you strike on your opponent from some direction or on certain part of his body. I like your picture, and Rebbeca did an excellent specification of the first attacker. However I would like to turn your sight on the defender (or the beaten one:)) The picture I drew above shows, what happens, when you strike on parts between blue lines. Your defender is like the man from my picture, that is last. Notice, that belly does different movemnent.
I do no want to look like a wise old man (I am 19) I just wanted to help.:sad:

NoirQ
07-01-2005, 03:15 PM
awesome thread, having no art background, its nice for me to see this :) been doing some this afternoon, good fun :) Keep up the good work everyone, and of course rebecca :D Very interesting thread :)

this may be out of my bounds to say, but to the dude who said id like a review, patience is a virtue :P that seemed very rude to me, seeing tho this is something rebecca is doing from the goodness of her heart :P And if you look at the start, she said she would only do 4, which she has already surpassed i believe :)

Anyway, crashing on, good job everyone, keep it up! :)

Rebeccak
07-01-2005, 04:10 PM
anim_ziggy,

finally! Your review: :) ~thanks for posting!

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop/REVIEWED_animziggy_small.jpg

Comments: I like that you are tackling difficult poses, this shows initiative, and surprisingly, difficult poses are more easy to do than supposedly easy poses where there is relatively little action ~ the reason is because when you look at a difficult pose, eg, one that is twisted or bent etc., you actually have to observe more closely because you do not have any preconceived ideas about the pose.

Crits: I would focus less on shading than on achieving form purely through drawing lines, using opposing-, or counter-, curves to delineate the various aspects of the figure. If you do use shading, make sure to always shade in the direction of the form ~ your shading must be as curved in some instances as the exterior lines of your gesture drawing ~ because straight lines do nothing but flatten a figure out and destroy whatever you've worked to achieve through exterior line work.

Practice drawing several loose sketches of random organic matter ~ it does not need to look like anything ~ it can basically resemble a branch, because much like a branch, the human figure is twisted and contorted and composed entirely of circles and curves.

Hope this helps, and I'm looking forward to your posts!

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
07-01-2005, 04:20 PM
NoirQ wrote:

>this may be out of my bounds to say, but to the dude who said id like a review, patience is a virtue :P that seemed very rude to me...

Meh, no worries, I encouraged NOOB to post, and then promptly got swamped by great images to review ~ so it's all good! NOOB, if you're out there, I promise to get to it today. But thanks for the compliments, NoirQ, and I hope to see you posting soon! :)

~Rebeccak

NOOB!
07-01-2005, 04:33 PM
NOir Q,was u referring to me or anim_ziggy?

if me ,i was really not being serious,theres like 40 pics for review.

i respect the time shez puttin into all this.

*don't hate NOOB!*

*runs*

p.s. rebecca,i had a great idea,that maybe u shud contact ballistic publishing and get an anatomy book made?

Rebeccak
07-01-2005, 04:37 PM
NOOB wrote:

> *don't hate NOOB!* *runs*

no worries, no one's hating anyone on this thread ;) so it's all good. :)

> p.s. rebacca,i had a great idea,that maybe u shud contact ballistic publishing and get an anatomy book made?

Woo! Cool idea...thanks for the suggestion!

I've asked about the possibility of turning this thread into a forum under the WIP/Critique: 2D, Illustrations and Concept Art (http://www.cgtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=31) Forum ~ do you think there would be enough support for this? I think it would be great to have a lot of tutorials in one place, according to different categories ~ what do you think? I'd be happy to moderate :)

~Rebeccak

NOOB!
07-01-2005, 04:51 PM
ofcourse,i think everyone wud support that idea.anatomy is the most diffucult to learn in the art world ,wud be great.

*cough*and then u cud release the book and make big cash and open ur on school.*cough*

*who sed that*

....

It will be allot of work for u though...phew!

Rebeccak
07-01-2005, 04:54 PM
Woo! I think NOOB could be my marketing director ;)

I'm going to focus on getting your review done in the meantime! :)
~Rebeccak

NOOB!
07-01-2005, 05:02 PM
and i'll focus on not driving ur thread off-topic.heh.

Rebeccak
07-01-2005, 05:57 PM
NOOB,

Ok, finally done...this is still a bit in progress, but I have just made a few minor suggestions for your piece. Overall I would say you've done a great job of coming up with this out of imagination ~ only a few tiny modifications might improve it.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/rebeccak4/CG_Talk_Anatomy_Workshop/REVIEWED_picforcrit.jpg

Comments: Great layout and sense of space ~ I never would have come up with this kind of composition, but its definitely pretty decent! Great rendering of the female head so far. Her proportions are very good.

Crits: I think that his head in relationship to his body and to the female in the piece is too small, and too far back in the picture relative to his body. I sketched in some legs ~ not sure if this is where you want them to go, but I would suggest figuring out where the two figures are placed in relation to each other before rendering, or you could get into trouble if the pose doesn't work out the way you had thought in the beginning. I would make the background more dynamic, using a lot of diagonal lines and curves to really play up the dynamism of the poses.

Good work so far, looking forward to seeing the finished piece! :)

~Rebeccak