View Full Version : My first head, crits really needed.

06-26-2005, 11:40 AM
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So this is my first head, using max. I didnt find the modeling challenging, but to actually get it to look good is so hard. I want it to look much younger. Other than missing ears, could I have some C+C from the pros because Im at a loss what to do to make this look more life like at this stage.


06-26-2005, 12:25 PM
Its an ok start. You have the basic shape of the head, but there is just no detail. You need to fix the proportions of the head, the eyes should be half way up/down the face. The jaw line just blends into the back of the head and the crease on the sides of the mouth should start from the top of the nostrils not the bottom.

This Should get you started and study some references as well.

06-26-2005, 12:50 PM
Thanks I will try and fix that and get another pic up soon.

Edit Heres my attempt at making it better. Looks better to me, some more crit like that would be really welcome.



The Prophet
06-26-2005, 01:11 PM
sorry for my bad english, i dont know tis called. but from the side view you should clearly see a jaw, that runs right to were the ears should be.

the buttom of the nose should be less flat, and try to fix the geometric errors around the mouth an chin.

nicely done for a first try btw

06-26-2005, 01:42 PM
Ive added some ears in, Prophet just seen your comments and will work on what you suggested. Thanks a lot.


06-26-2005, 01:52 PM
Here it is with some more improvements, prophet, do you mean when you say errors the modeling errors round the nose and mouth or errors as in it doesnt look right?


06-26-2005, 02:59 PM
If you are going for a realistic head, then i would say your eye's are to big, also i would say that your forehead needs to be abit bigger, also the shape of the top of the head needs working on in the side view. And the chin is abit pointed, try smoothing it out abit.
What i would do is grab a mirror and look at your self in it, then look at your model, and you should start to pick a few different things up that need working on. But it isn't bad for your first attempt and it is going in the right direction.

Good job, keep us updated.:thumbsup:

06-26-2005, 03:40 PM
Maybe I should claim its a self portait because people say I have big eyes. I already fixed the head shape will see what I can do with the eyes. Thanks so much for the C+C would be rubbish with out it.

Edit: Here he is with the adjustments you suggested. Anything else, hes looking life like to me now.


06-26-2005, 04:02 PM
Something on the lips just doesnt look right, try giving the lip abit of a curve from the bottom of the nose, hard to explain.


06-26-2005, 04:14 PM
Ok the next thing i would sort out is the jaw line, if you take alook at yours in a mirror, you can see that sits in front of the ear, where as on your model it is finshing behind the ear. Then i would give your chin abit more roundness, in the side view as it looks abit pointed.

It is starting to look alot better now, keep the updates coming:thumbsup:

06-26-2005, 05:27 PM
Ok spent a lot longer adjusting this time, thanks for the tip on the jaw and the lips, spent ages working on them Ive also added in the kinda creases from the nose to the mid cheek. Very subtle couldnt see it in a render so I just grabbed the viewport. Anymore C+C? Thanks so much for the help.


06-26-2005, 05:49 PM
Theres something about the eyebrows they have a weird groove in them and the crease that connects the eye socket to the temple should be lowered. The grooves beside the mouth should also be more vertical than they are now. In the side view you should move the part where the lips connect to the nose forward a bit. The chin also seems a bit long. Sorry for my crappy drawings haha:arteest:, they are just for a general idea. Good luck dude:thumbsup: .


06-26-2005, 05:52 PM
Oh i see you fixed the chin and mouth grooves already while I was posting. Ignore what I said about them then hahaha.

06-26-2005, 05:54 PM
top lip a bit fatter maybe.

06-26-2005, 06:18 PM
Thanks guys, think I got it all sorted now. Wil update again soon.

06-26-2005, 06:25 PM
wow what an improvement, well done.
I would say now the main thing, is the eye's, the outer edge needs some work, and i still feel they need to be abit smaller!

Great job on everything, you are doing great keep it up:thumbsup:

06-26-2005, 06:29 PM
Nice progress, tho i think you should go through some photos of friends and family or something like THIS (http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&biw=1920&q=male+head+profile&btnG=Search) and learn the proportions and the overall shape of the human head, also studying the skull (http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&biw=1920&q=human+skull&btnG=Search) is a good start. Good luck dude.

06-26-2005, 07:38 PM
Thanks for the tips, MarGera, I think Ive got the eyes done now, what do you think?

Thanks for the ref stuff Pedram, found it quite useful.

Heres a latest shot, Ive tried to give him a bit more character have I suceeded at all?


06-26-2005, 07:47 PM
ya, I think so the smile helps

06-26-2005, 09:30 PM
Well more done again, crits welcome, still not happy with it. He looks slightly afro caribean to me can anyone put a finger on why?

I have 2 WIPs here one with smaller eyes and one with larger. Im not happy with the eyes yet, do they need to be more round or more slit like? C+C more than welcome.
Thanks Guys.


06-26-2005, 09:41 PM
Eyes get smaller toward the outside like lemons. And I would say to make yours smaller.

heres a pic I found on google that might help with eye shape Its a woman eye but mens have basically te same general shape to them.

And I would say his mouth would be whats looking afro carribean, Im not sure why I think its cus his lips look kinda flat and pulled back against his face, mayb, I dunno:shrug:. Good luck and keep on rollin.

06-27-2005, 12:46 AM
-eyes still too big
-chin too short/rectangular
- ears ways too big
- Nose bridge is not correct.

Why does he looks like a black male(tought he kinda doesnt look like one):
- his lips are long

"afro caribean "?:shrug:

06-27-2005, 03:10 AM
For a first try this is a great start. After you get the correct shape post the wires and everyone can help you get your typology correct.

Few things that I think would help it look better would be:

Make the eye more almond shape. The top of the ears will be even with the iris of the eye “or close to it”. The shape of the mouth is getting on track but I get the feeling that you’d like this head to be in a relaxed position. The mouth will lever curve up wile relaxed. I feel the mouth you had a few updates ago look better. Most people have a small mound of skin in the center of there top lip. Above that there’s a divot “witch I see on the older ones but not in the new ones”. The profile of the top lip pulls back into the nose more then it does on a lot of people.

Keep working looking forward to it being done


06-27-2005, 11:08 AM
Thanks for these great crits, really appreciate them. I will get on these right now, expect another set of shots in a few hours. Thanks guys.

06-27-2005, 03:05 PM
Getting a lot happier with the way it looks now, had to get out the hand held mirror which has helped along with the crits.

Anything else you can see that Ive missed?
Thanks again guys.


06-27-2005, 03:39 PM
Quick update, made some more changes, I know there are some errors in the topology but dashing out now will fix later this evening.


06-27-2005, 05:36 PM
More changes any C+C?


06-27-2005, 06:14 PM
That’s looking much better, if you’re like me its never going to look good enough. I always feel like there something more that I want to change.

I think that the nose maybe to small now. Maybe that’s because I have a big nose, so seeing a head with one doesn’t look that odd =P

The ears look a lot better. They are hard to model due to all the folding skin, but that’s looking good for a first try.

The bottom lip needs to be more flat across its underside. Keep in mind that the bottom lip “on most people” doesn’t have crease across it. It’s defined with the change of color from skin color to the pinker lip color. This can be hard to get right at first because its so vague.

06-27-2005, 07:27 PM
Great progress so far! The mouth seems to be too close to the chin for me. You should also think about refining the neck. As broad as it is, the whole character looks a bit like a wrestler. Don't know if it is intended this way but it may be distractive when judging the look of the head.

06-27-2005, 09:07 PM
alot better that my first head, keep up the good work, keep practicing. take a closer look at a real ear.

06-27-2005, 10:01 PM
Well guys what do you think now? Ive had a good look at it and Im stuck with things to change now, the neck obvisouly I will sort out so it would flow into shoulders back and chest, but not at the moment. C+C? Id like to unwrap and texture, bump and spec. The only heads Ive ever worked with are for an older game and a simple cylindricle unwrap worked fine.


06-27-2005, 10:16 PM
The forehead is too small. Take a look at this please: http://drawsketch.about.com/library/weekly/aa121202a.htm

Otherwise it's fine. Nice job.

06-28-2005, 12:55 AM
Thanks cool link.

Now what do you think? Do I get 5 stars for improvement?


06-28-2005, 10:34 AM
Can this possibly mean you dont have any more C+C?


For anyone still following.


06-28-2005, 02:51 PM
Texturing Continues then:


06-29-2005, 07:09 AM
Yeah the shape of the eyes is looking a lot better now.

You might want to move the eyeball up just a small bit. The iris of the eye will just graze the lower lid. The pic of the eye on the page before is a good example of this. The negative space of the white can be used to show expression. If you have a lot of white above or below the iris you get an intense insane look.

07-03-2005, 07:07 PM
Nice work chems... nice to see every one from the modding comm. moving onto more complexed models.

Keep going at it im sure just like everything else it takes some practice to get it just right.

07-04-2005, 12:15 PM
It's looking OK...but his nostrils are way too big!!

07-11-2005, 09:55 PM
Hey Guys,

Well here it is with a Bump map, C+C Welcome. I hope you like the progress.

(PS Hey Zac)


07-12-2005, 10:13 PM
Simple Colour Map Set up. Spec map applied also, thou its going to need a lot of work.


07-13-2005, 12:57 AM
Could you provide us with some updated side views? I think the lips need more definition, as well as the nose. The forehead is still too small, and it also seems to be sloped backwards way too much.

I did all of this when I made my first face, so I can recognize it now. How did you model this? Did you start with a sphere? I have found through like 5 different techniques, that starting from scratch and making a single spline for the eye shape is the most intuitive way to make a face.

I learned this technique from a book called "Inside: Lightwave 7". He goes over every detail of making a human face in there, as well as tons of other stuff, the book is huge. If you don't buy it, you might at least wan't to take a look at it in your nearest B&N. Also, there is a book called "The Artist's complete guide to facial expressions". It gives a lot of different views of faces and will come in handy if you ever want to animate the face.

Those are the places where you should start first, the other stuff will be little details. Looking like it is improving though :thumbsup: .

07-13-2005, 02:04 AM
Looking pretty cool Chems, I like the direction you're going. I think the two scars on the screen left side of the face bump out too much and are too thin.. should be pretty subtle with colour map helping it out with some pinkish (same applies to any other scars). This all depends on how old the scar is. Veins on the forehead look pretty cool, but I'd move them farther back on the head, closer to the temple.. and make them less symetrical with eachother. Wrinkles under the eye could be a tad bit tighter with the eye bag. Make sure to put wrinkles in that come for the side of the nose down passed the corner of the mouth.. this will be where your face folds when you smile. Beard bump could fade in more with the rest of the skin unless he is growing himself a chinstrap. Overall bump texture on the cheeks, not sure if its patterned, could use a little less opacity.. looks like cracking skin. Maybe throw in some vertical creases between the eyebrows. I know you just started the colourmap, but be sure the put redness in the forehead, cheeks and nose. Theres a little blue around the inner eyelid aswell. This is about all I got. Hope to see some updates pronto.


09-11-2005, 03:01 PM
Ive finally gotten back round to (well I didnt I decided to skip a few things) and work on my fav project again. Ive been tweaking the bump and colour map, and Im hoping to take this into zbrush and work on the colour map again once thats finished. C+C Most appreciated. Hes got new eyes (thanks to Scotcho for the tut) I think his lips need some more work.


09-11-2005, 03:29 PM
hmm.. his lips look to wide and thin in the last pic, but otherwise it looks really good! very nice progress so far, keep it up!

09-11-2005, 04:44 PM
Thanks for the Comments, is this better?

EDIT: Wrong picture, posted the same one twice. :shrug:

09-11-2005, 05:09 PM
You're improving Chems, good job. Modeling wise, there are some sharp edges under the corner of the mouth and at the ear connection. Maybe the ear is too flat against the head, but its hard to tell from this angle. For texturing, make sure you put tons of subtle freckles to help break up the skin. Have them very subtle, then have some that are noticable. Don't be afraid to give him some blemishes. And if you're going for the stubble, make sure it shows in the colour map too. Are you planning eyebrows and hair?

09-11-2005, 08:11 PM
Some more progress, I will add in those animation lines you mentioned Scott, and then get it into Zbrush. I do intend to add hair and eye brows, hopefully even eye lashes. But thats what I want to add with zbrush. Will add all the freckles etc on the colour map after that. Thanks for the crits mate.


09-11-2005, 08:55 PM
ooh, much better, keep it up! I wish I could texture like you can :). I have to work on that.... but im starting to see, its all about using different shades of colors, and using blur/smudge, burn and uhh.. forgot the other tool that u use.

09-11-2005, 09:42 PM
I personally find its all about layers and opaticty myself, but burn and dodge are very good on weapon type textures. Thanks for your help all. Im in Zbrush now, I learn a bit last week but Im still smacking my head in fustration!

09-12-2005, 11:59 PM
So I finally got to grips with Zbrush, to a certain level anyway. I got done what I wanted but its hard to see the diffrence, a bump map is really all you need on a head like this. The character wants to be young so I dont want to many wrinkles etc which is what ZeeeBrush would be great for. Tell me what you think. Still lots of things to add in the colour map.


09-14-2005, 02:08 AM
preproduction. the consensus in my apt right now... is preproduction

09-14-2005, 10:24 PM
Thanks for that Elizabeth, but your going to have to explain a bit more to me there, what exactly do you mean?

09-16-2005, 08:59 PM
From what I see, He just looks way too generic, he doesn't have define facial characteristics, who is he? Define the brow ridge, pull out the chin, make him look like a character instead of a pod-person, Z-Brush is great for details, but without preproduction (i.e. a picture, mug shots are a great way to get prepro!) those details don't mean much.

09-16-2005, 10:34 PM
Oh I see what you mean, he kinda just evolved that way, if you read from the start you cans see. Someone said he looks kinda like me cause I read somewhere to use a mirror so I did. If he turns out to be a full character hes going to be a solider so you wont see much of his face anyway. They are kinda generic anyway. For my next character thou I want to do Jenifer Garner, so that way Id be following refs.

09-17-2005, 04:09 PM
Even if you're not making a specific person, refrence images make the overall character look more realistic, it just helps flesh out the character more if you have them *shrug* looking forward to seeing your next model too :)

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