Questions before I buy Modo

[jscott]

Yes you can use reference images in Modo.

what will this program give me that Silo will not.
1) Edge weighting. Which is great for hard surface models like spaceships.
2) Numerical control of every command. Again better for hard surface models.
3) Macro recording and scripting.

Silo is a good modeler but I feel is not as suited to hard surface modeling as Modo.

-jscott

[habañero]

Hi, I just bought lightwave and looking at modo as an additional modeler, to gain Edges and easier macro tools etc, Seems to me to two packages complement each other fairly well and the price is certainly right until july 30th.

What I don´t understand is why you can´t just take your dongle and put it in your laptop when you want to use it with Lightwave? You can even sync the config files or just keep them at a portable hard drive, if you map the drive to the same letter or network address at both machine you even keep the recent file list, content directory and just everything just as it was.

Or am I missing something, I was under the impression this was one of the big advantages with an LW licence, that you can carry it around? If you have the old style dongle, that it´s a technical problem, I think you can get it switched with a USB key that´ll fit.

My 2 c.

[MadMax]

1. Yes there are curves and patchng in Modo just like LW.

2. Yes, you can use background images in Modo as well.

3. You can scale an object with any percentage value you wish.

Regarding Silo, I tried the demo, but I wasn't all that impressed with it. It has an extremely primitive interface, and extremely limited toolset. I noticed from looking at their forums that users keep asking for funtions Modo has. Go figure.

I keep seeing people go on about how Modo costs so much more, and if price is your only prerequisite then buy Silo. Or for that matter, download Blender, it's free and has a lot more features than Silo does. I bought Modo on a 500.00 special last Christmas, and it's paid for itself a dozen times over since then. I will be picking up a few more Modo licenses before the special ends to replace a few aging LW licenses.

EDIT: Siggraph is very close. Luxology has new goodies for it's users. Now would be a real smart time to buy it while it;s cheap.

[Steve McRae]

3. You can also precisely scale it by using alignFit.pl or absolute.pl both of which are on www.vertexmonkey.com. (http://www.vertexmonkey.com.)

[lovisx]

well you can do edge weighting in Silo
you can use background images in Silo
You also have a numerical editor for all transformations and for some commands in Silo

With silo you get to rebuild topolgy on the fly, a great snapping tool, and a fully custamizable interface.


what you'll miss is morph targets, macro commands, and a wide range of deformers. You won't get modo splines either or an infinite number of small commands that are rarely used but could save some time later eventually.

I do believe that Siggraph holds the key and it would be best to wait till then to see in which direction modo and silo go to make a final decision.

btw I'm a troll, just thought I'd save mad max the trouble of having to say it. :D

[fez]

well you can do edge weighting in Silo


Isn't there just "Crease" and "Uncrease"? In which case, it cannot do edge weighting. But I only downloaded the demo this week, so I might be missing something.

[ThomasMahler]

Regarding Silo, I tried the demo, but I wasn't all that impressed with it. It has an extremely primitive interface, and extremely limited toolset. I noticed from looking at their forums that users keep asking for funtions Modo has. Go figure.


Yippie-Ki-Yay, let's join the fanboy ride!

As for the primitive interface: Silo is obviously not meant for you. Silo is meant for people who just want to create - The interface is more than you could ever ask for (and in the end, most modelers will turn off the interface of the software nevertheless, to gain more space to view your models), the toolset is far from limited, it's just streamlined. Many tools have been laid together, so you will work faster. For example, extrude _is_ extrude for EVERY component and there are just not, like you see this in Modo, 10 tools that are essentially doing the same thing. Merge Verts is also Collape, if you select the right components - Stuff like that. It's just streamlined, so your workflow will be a lot faster than it is in Modo.

As for the features that are being asked for - Well, there are actually 2 things that I love about Modo: Soft Selection with Connectivity and the whole deformer stuff.

But as someone already mentioned, I also think that Modo is more suited if you're going for hard surface modeling. The tools are just geared towards that way and the workflow of the program just forces you to work very, very precise at times.

Nevertheless, for organic modeling, Silo is so much better than Modo, it's not even funny. The tools are geared towards workflow, you can totally customize every command, so it suits your specific needs, you can totally remap every mouse and keyboard button and the tools just work like a charm. They give you tools that just work and you're modeling - it's as easy as that.

[fez]

Yippie-Ki-Yay, let's join the fanboy ride!

Many tools have been laid together, so you will work faster. For example, extrude _is_ extrude for EVERY component and there are just not, like you see this in Modo, 10 tools that are essentially doing the same thing. Merge Verts is also Collape, if you select the right components - Stuff like that. It's just streamlined, so your workflow will be a lot faster than it is in Modo.



I agree. I have been evaluating both programs this week and this jumped out at me as well. Seneca's free Modo scripts optimize the tools to some degree, but Silo is certainly much more streamlined in this regard.

I disagree that Silo is a superior organic modeler, but that is coming from a long time Lightwaver. I think both are brilliant.

[JacquesD]

Yippie-Ki-Yay, let's join the fanboy ride!

As for the features that are being asked for - Well, there are actually 2 things that I love about Modo: Soft Selection with Connectivity and the whole deformer stuff.

But as someone already mentioned, I also think that Modo is more suited if you're going for hard surface modeling. The tools are just geared towards that way and the workflow of the program just forces you to work very, very precise at times.

Nevertheless, for organic modeling, Silo is so much better than Modo, it's not even funny.

Totally disagree... I mainly do character modelling and I have both Modo and Silo.
I don't deny that Silo is a good piece of software but to say that is far better in organic modeling than Modo is completely wrong.

Besides, you first mentioned that what you love about Modo is its soft selection and the whole deformer stuff (which I would tend to think that's what people use when doing organic modeling) and than you say Modo is more for hard surface modeling... that doesn't really make sense to me.

Anyway... both have very similar tools and these features are not going to make any difference if you're a good organic modeler. Keep in mind that even if a better features set is going to improve your workflow, it's still the artist who's going to make the difference! it's always about polygons/vertex/edges which you create, push and pull after all.

The ripper.

[ThomasMahler]

Hey Ripper,

I mentioned that what I love about Modo is that the there's an option for the soft selection, so it runs over the surface of the mesh, which makes tweaking a lot easier in some situations. Nevertheless, Tweaking itself is a major pain in the ass in Modo, since there's no Selection Highlighting and the Element Move Tool is just slow, compared to Silos Tweak "Hotkey", for example.

Keep in mind that even if a better features set is going to improve your workflow, it's still the artist who's going to make the difference! it's always about polygons/vertex/edges which you create, push and pull after all.

Of course - And I didn't deny that, but I think about every polyToolset on the market is "good enough" already.

It's not anymore about giving the artists the features and stuff, it's about workflow and that's an area where Modo is seriously lacking. Compare Silos streamlined tools workflow with Modos "A dozen Tools for one command" workflow. I don't want to bash Lux or anything, but they totally failed when it comes to create a "future modeler". If you come from Lightwave, okay, then Modo may be for you (even though a lot of LW artists switched to Silo already, Glen Southern, to name one popular), since it's actually the same thing with some nice additions (heck, it even has the !same! issues Lightwave had - Loosing Symmetry while modeling and stuff like that), but a modern modeler should just make poly/SubD Modeling as easy and straight-forward as possible and Modo clearly gives an artist too many headaches.

If Lux gives Modo a workflow update at Siggraph, I'd be happy. But at the moment, I think it's a good modeler for hard surface modeling, since you have good, precise tools. But for digital sculpting, there are far better alternatives out there.

[lovisx]

sorry fez, I was wrong, it is only crease and uncrease, there's no partial creasing and so forth in Silo.

[DanSilverman]

Thomas,

I sometimes get the impression that you watch Modo threads, wait for Silo to get mentioned and then jump in to "correct" what has been said ;) .

Yippie-Ki-Yay, let's join the fanboy ride!

Just because someone stated they did not like the demo of Silo, etc, does not make them a fan boy (as if you are to talk about "fan boys" the way you defend Silo ;) ).

As for the primitive interface: Silo is obviously not meant for you. Silo is meant for people who just want to create...

Wow. As if all the other 3D software out there is NOT for people who want to create. "Hey! I am not feeling creative ... I really don't ever like to create ... Guess I will fire up MAX or MAYA or one of these other tools for those who don't want to create ..."

The interface is more than you could ever ask for ...

Or less than you could ask for ;) .

(and in the end, most modelers will turn off the interface of the software nevertheless, to gain more space to view your models)

Which can totally be done with Modo as well.

For example, extrude _is_ extrude for EVERY component and there are just not, like you see this in Modo, 10 tools that are essentially doing the same thing.

I believe you have harped on this before, were answered concerning this and still refuse to hear the answer.

In Modo extrude is also extrude for every component, be it edge, vertice or face. You can press "X" (one of the shortcuts) to extrude whatever is selected whether it be a face, edge or vertice. The thing that seems to have your dander up is that Luxology created seperate icons to represent extruding each componant. I simply use "X" (or, if I want to click an icon, the basic bevel button on the first menu) and be done with it.

It's just streamlined, so your workflow will be a lot faster than it is in Modo.

This is not so. The workflow in Modo can be as streamlined as you want it to be. You can freely create the modeling environment you want (for the most part) and streamline your process. You can even create macros or keybindings to further enhance your workflow. Silo is a good app (I own it as well), but I find I work a lot faster (and more streamlined) in Modo. That's me (and obviously not you), but just because YOU work faster in Silo does not mean you can make a blanket statement that Silo's workflow is just faster. It is for you (because you know the app and it fits your mental mindset) but not for me (possibly because I do not know the app as well and Modo fits my mindset better).

But as someone already mentioned, I also think that Modo is more suited if you're going for hard surface modeling. The tools are just geared towards that way and the workflow of the program just forces you to work very, very precise at times.

I don't know where people get this from. Modo is my primary organic modeling tool. I think (personally) that Modo is geared toward BOTH, but it may actually need a bit of work on the hard surface side of things, especially since one of the areas that it lacks is in snapping (Silo has a better snap than Modo does).

Nevertheless, for organic modeling, Silo is so much better than Modo, it's not even funny.

Your statement is not even funny. I went into Silo the other day to do some basic edge-modeling. It was fine, but not near as nice as I (personally) find it in Modo. Modo's superior selection of elements also allows for faster modeling and this is a definate plus when doing organics.

The tools are geared towards workflow, you can totally customize every command, so it suits your specific needs, you can totally remap every mouse and keyboard button and the tools just work like a charm. They give you tools that just work and you're modeling - it's as easy as that.

So has Modo (with the exception of the remapping the mouse). You can totally (and EASILY) redesign the entire UI, workflow and keyboard setup to work as you want to work.

Nevertheless, Tweaking itself is a major pain in the ass in Modo, since there's no Selection Highlighting and the Element Move Tool is just slow,

I don't find it so. Tweaking is great (for me) in Modo. The Element Move tool is not at all slow (I am not sure where you are getting this from), but you are correct that they should have selection highlighting.

it's about workflow and that's an area where Modo is seriously lacking.

Modo's workflow is wonderful (as far as I am concerned) and, as pointed out, can be optimised for each user. I am hooked. So, how is it seriously lacking?

Compare Silos streamlined tools workflow with Modos "A dozen Tools for one command" workflow.

Read up. There are not a "dozen tools for one command" in Modo. It just shows you do not really know the application you are so valiently tearing apart.

I don't want to bash Lux or anything, but they totally failed when it comes to create a "future modeler".

More trash. Totally failed? Where do you get this from? I use Silo, 3D Studio MAX and have used other models in the past ranging from Real3D (now Realsoft3D) to trueSpace to Maya. With Modo I find I am working faster and creating more and have more creative freedom than I have had modeling with ANY other modeling application. As far as I am concerned, Luxology has succeeded wonderfully and only good things are in store for the future (i.e. Siggraph ;) ).

If you come from Lightwave, okay, then Modo may be for you (even though a lot of LW artists switched to Silo already, Glen Southern, to name one popular), since it's actually the same thing with some nice additions (heck, it even has the !same! issues Lightwave had - Loosing Symmetry while modeling and stuff like that), but a modern modeler should just make poly/SubD Modeling as easy and straight-forward as possible and Modo clearly gives an artist too many headaches.

I have never used Lightwave and yet I prefer Modo. So what does that do to your "yet another" blanket statement?

Headaches? From using Modo? No way! Creative freedom. You may not like Modo and Modo may not be suited for you, Thomas, but that does not give you the right to make such blanket statements as you do. You are flat out wrong. And the funny thing is you started posting in this thread because of supposed "fan boys" and, yet, you turn out to be one yourself.

If Lux gives Modo a workflow update at Siggraph, I'd be happy. But at the moment, I think it's a good modeler for hard surface modeling, since you have good, precise tools. But for digital sculpting, there are far better alternatives out there.

This has all be covered already and, basically, you are flat wrong in your assumptions.

[lovisx]

anyway...... let's skip this debate again. Because it's turning out to be my program does what your program does, and because my program does the same thing that your program does it's just as good.

I'm anxcious to know what's going on with Modo at Siggraph, I haven't heard much. What new tools will they be implementing? I've heard about their new renderer, but not much about their tools.

[Steve McRae]

38 more days! =)

[lovisx]

the wait is killing me, I thought E3 was bad, but this is worse.

[ThomasMahler]

Haha, Dan, you must have replied to my posts in _every single_ thread in _every_ board where I criticized Modo. I must have read your "I'm owning a company and all of our artists use Modo, we're doing lowPoly Modeling, but sadly, I can't show you any work I've created!" comments about a dozen times now.

Let's make it easy on ourselves: Just ask 10 digital sculptors you know, which own both packages what they prefer for organic modeling - I'd say at least 7 would clearly state "Silo". At least, that's my experience. I really don't know many artists who're using Modo.

It's been a while since I last used it, but I was just so _very_ disappointed about Modos workflow. Believe me, I was totally hyped before Luxology released it, I really thought that finally one developer sat down and wrote a modeler that's really laid out for workflow (you can use the CGTalk Search...) But I was so wrong. I mean, I remember that CGTalk even put up a Modo IRC Channel as Modo's been released and even there the comments were like "it's about 50% of what it could've been" and "totally half-assed" - And that's exactly what I think about it. Modo has the tools, yes, but it doesn't have the workflow (<- See this? Bold text? Means it's important). And that's the _key issue_ about it.

[DanSilverman]

Haha, Dan, you must have replied to my posts in _every single_ thread in _every_ board where I criticized Modo.

That is because you keep coming to MODO threads and uplifting Silo while putting down Modo. I happen to go to the Modo threads to see if I can help. I end up fending off you ;) .

I must have read your "I'm owning a company and all of our artists use Modo, we're doing lowPoly Modeling, but sadly, I can't show you any work I've created!" comments about a dozen times now.

You can stop your trash talk now. I never said these things (not in the way you state them). In my company only two of us are using Modo at the moment. The main reason is the animators certainly don't need a program that does not animate (duh!). And, as for my work, my web site link can be found by looking at my information. Levels and low-poly models can be found on the site. Get a grip and get your quotes right. Sheesh.

I really don't know many artists who're using Modo.

And because YOU don't know many must make it the way it is for the entire world, right? I do know digital artists using Modo and studios that have it as a part of their pipeline. I also know people using Silo and studios that have it as a part of their pipeline. If you read my posts, you will find I am fair. I have posted on the Modo forum in defense of Silo (as some there look at Silo as a toy ... which it definately is not).

Modo has the tools, yes, but it doesn't have the workflow (<- See this? Bold text? Means it's important). And that's the _key issue_ about it.

But I obviously disagree with you. The workflow in Modo is fantastic. Not perfect, mind you, but better (IMO) than in Silo ... for ME and the way I work. I like Silo, but I prefer Modo. But at least I don't go around spouting off and knocking an application that I don't know that much about.

[MadMax]

Wow. Talk about misinformation.

People who use Modo have made statements like "I'll never go back to modeler", "it's my main modeling tool now", "couldn't be happier" etc.

Modo has an excellent workflow. Your comments about lacking workflow are complete nonsense.

just curious though, why is it Silo users are so obsessed with Modo? Looking through Silo forums shows more than a few I hate Modo topics, from people who don't even use it. Why do they spend all their time in Modo forums, ready to pounce on "should I buy Modo" topics?

Sounds to me like there is more than a bit of insecurity going on...........




It's been a while since I last used it, but I was just so _very_ disappointed about Modos workflow. Believe me, I was totally hyped before Luxology released it, I really thought that finally one developer sat down and wrote a modeler that's really laid out for workflow (you can use the CGTalk Search...) But I was so wrong. I mean, I remember that CGTalk even put up a Modo IRC Channel as Modo's been released and even there the comments were like "it's about 50% of what it could've been" and "totally half-assed" - And that's exactly what I think about it. Modo has the tools, yes, but it doesn't have the workflow (<- See this? Bold text? Means it's important). And that's the _key issue_ about it.

[c-g]

Yippie-Ki-Yay, let's join the fanboy ride!

Thomas came out from under his bridge to sing the prasies of "Anything but Modo"

[c-g]

I don't find it so. Tweaking is great (for me) in Modo. The Element Move tool is not at all slow (I am not sure where you are getting this from), but you are correct that they should have selection highlighting.

I disagree, after watching the silo vidoes the one thing I came away with was that the highlighting couldn't keep up with the user's mouse. There were videos that the user was performing actions and the highlighting was always a step behind.

[MadMax]

I'm still tryng to figure out how he gets that element move is slow.

Did he see it running on a 486/66 with 512mb of ram?

[Lyr]

I disagree, after watching the silo vidoes the one thing I came away with was that the highlighting couldn't keep up with the user's mouse. There were videos that the user was performing actions and the highlighting was always a step behind.

Err you do realize that video capture software slows your display down. My selection pre-highlighting is realtime and if you download the demo you will find yours to be realtime as well.

[ThomasMahler]

That is because you keep coming to MODO threads and uplifting Silo while putting down Modo. I happen to go to the Modo threads to see if I can help. I end up fending off you ;) .

I've been in clinch with you over at the Silo boards and even at the hexagon beta boards as we've talked about workflow. I've seen you in so many boards now, everytime you've defended Modo like we'd talk about your balls - And you didn't only "fight" with me, mate. Everytime someone criticized Modo in any way, you've been there, telling this person that he's obviously completely wrong. Geez, just do a search over at the Nevercenter boards!

Levels and low-poly models can be found on the site. Get a grip and get your quotes right. Sheesh.

Okay, now I see why Modo is your thing. That's all I've been asking for. You should really keep discussions at a polite level, man.

And because YOU don't know many must make it the way it is for the entire world, right? I do know digital artists using Modo and studios that have it as a part of their pipeline. I also know people using Silo and studios that have it as a part of their pipeline. If you read my posts, you will find I am fair. I have posted on the Modo forum in defense of Silo (as some there look at Silo as a toy ... which it definately is not).

Jesus, it's not about "Hey, I've supported YOUR application and you're talking bad about MINE?" - It's not about fanboy-ism or stuff like that, I'm simply talking about work and tools. Hell, I've only criticized Modo and you're acting like I'd have insulted you. I know you'll explode now, but: grow up!

But I obviously disagree with you. The workflow in Modo is fantastic. Not perfect, mind you, but better (IMO) than in Silo ... for ME and the way I work. I like Silo, but I prefer Modo. But at least I don't go around spouting off and knocking an application that I don't know that much about.

Well, maybe it works for you, for your job as a lowPoly Modeler - I could see Modo doing a good job in that field, but I know a lot of digital sculptors who're just as disappointed about Modo as I am and it's always the same thing they're whining about: The workflow.

For example, read up on Martins ("ambient-whisper", if you're using the search) posts that he stated here as Modos been released - These are the comments that you hear. They just brought over so much stuff from Lightwave that I'm actually surprised that you can select edges now. Heck, read the "Suggested Features" thread here - Brad states quite often that, when someone has suggested a feature, "Not in your current modeler either." And he meant the Lightwave modeler, since most of the things that have been asked for were available for years in other modeling packages. If it ain't broken, don't fix it, huh?

That doesn't mean that Modo is bad, no, not at all. It's just not what Luxology promised to deliver. And _in my opinion_ it's just not the tool that digital sculptors should use, since there are better applications for this job.

[ThomasMahler]

I'm still tryng to figure out how he gets that element move is slow.

Did he see it running on a 486/66 with 512mb of ram?

Compare it to Silos tweak and you'll know what I mean.

[DanSilverman]

I've been in clinch with you over at the Silo boards and even at the hexagon beta boards as we've talked about workflow. I've seen you in so many boards now, everytime you've defended Modo like we'd talk about your balls - And you didn't only "fight" with me, mate. Everytime someone criticized Modo in any way, you've been there, telling this person that he's obviously completely wrong. Geez, just do a search over at the Nevercenter boards!

The boards you have mentioned are all the boards where we have "chatted", Thomas. Don't try to make it seem like tons more. You are very prone to over exaggerate.

And, as far as who I fight with, I would recommend that anyone do the searches on the Silo forum (or here) and see what I have posted. If I seem combative it is mainly because of people like you that trash a program that you obviously know little about. There are others (you already mentioned Ambient Whisper) that know what they are talking about and you don't see me arguing with them. They, at least, are fair in what they say. You are not ... not by a long shot. Not only are you not fair, but you are spread your trash about Modo here and there and, in most cases, you are incorrect in what you are saying.

Okay, now I see why Modo is your thing. That's all I've been asking for. You should really keep discussions at a polite level, man.

I have never hidden that and you have never asked about it. Stop playing your games. And, as for polite ... yes ... you have been real polite ... in the way you spread your trash talk. It gets tiring and that is why I bother to spend this time refuting what you are saying here.

Jesus, it's not about "Hey, I've supported YOUR application and you're talking bad about MINE?" - It's not about fanboy-ism or stuff like that, I'm simply talking about work and tools. Hell, I've only criticized Modo and you're acting like I'd have insulted you. I know you'll explode now, but: grow up!

No. It is about being fair. You refuse to be. You slam Modo and lift up Silo. You see only good in the one and failure in the other. This is not the case in the least. I show that I am fair in that I see the value in Silo and I also see the value in Modo. Both are tools, Thomas. But it seems you refuse to see that and have made it your point to, once again, come in and promote Silo while putting down Modo.

Well, maybe it works for you, for your job as a lowPoly Modeler - I could see Modo doing a good job in that field, but I know a lot of digital sculptors who're just as disappointed about Modo as I am and it's always the same thing they're whining about: The workflow.

It also works for me as I model high-poly stuff as well. The tools are there and the workflow as well.

That doesn't mean that Modo is bad, no, not at all. It's just not what Luxology promised to deliver. And _in my opinion_ it's just not the tool that digital sculptors should use, since there are better applications for this job.

Modo is not bad, but it is not the tool that digital sculptors should use? Sheesh. Give me a break. I guess all the images on the Luxology web page were done in other applications more suited for digital sculpting? I suppose the studios that have Modo in their pipeline are only doing hard body design?

"Better" can be defined as what works for you, Thomas. It is obvious (to just about everyone) that you prefer Silo. That is fine and dandy. Others prefer Modo. That is also fine. Some prefer neither. The workflow in one app suits one person, but not another. That is fine as well. The problem seems to be, Thomas, that you are the end-all and know-all of how a workflow should be. Therefore if the app does not suit YOUR way of working then it fails. How utterly sad.

You reference people that bring up issues with Modo's workflow (and many are valid points), but you fail to bring up the fact that there are similar posts about Silo's workflow. Yes, there are. Some actually claim that Silo's workflow just does not work well. Can that actually be? No! The world is going to come to an end now, I just know it!

Well, the facts are simple. No one 3D modeling tool works for all people. This is why there are so many on the market and room for more. Modo works for some and not for others. That is fine. Live with it, Thomas, but stop trolling these Modo posts so that you can pump up Silo and then sit back and act all offended when people respond to you.

[jscott]

Okay you two. Now go to your rooms and don't come out until I say so! And if I hear one more word you both are going to get a spanking!

-jscott

[DanSilverman]

... "one more word" ... ;)

[ThomasMahler]

Pah, he started it and I was right all the way, nevertheless.

;)

[jscott]

And the spankings commence... Whoopsht! I thought I told you....Whoopsht! Never... Whoopsht! Talk bad....Whoopsht! about someone's software....Whoopsht, Whoopsht!!

lol

-jscott

[c-g]

Err you do realize that video capture software slows your display down. My selection pre-highlighting is realtime and if you download the demo you will find yours to be realtime as well.

So it slows down just the highlighting? All the reset of the stuff going on was smooth and didn't seem slowed down as much.

[Lyr]

So it slows down just the highlighting? All the reset of the stuff going on was smooth and didn't seem slowed down as much.

Video capture software does seem to affect the speed of certain drawing operations more than others. for instance menus will slow down more than 3d rotation. The silo demo is free give it a try. You'll see that selection highlighting remains realtime on all but the most dense meshes which will be unworkable anyway.

[MadMax]

Pah, he started it and I was right all the way, nevertheless.

;)



You claim to be right, and yet the facts do not support it.

You have implied that Modo isn't good for high poly work, and yet it handles high poly work just fine. I have a couple of models that are pushing 1.5 million polys, LW lags on them, but modo handles just fine.

Funny how I hear the LW crowd claiming Modo is just for organics, but you need LW if you want to do mechanical/hard body work. The guys who want to claim their app is best at organic claims Modo is lousy at organic, but that it is suited best for hard body work. Funny that Modo has far better Organic capabilities that LW, beter sub division, and more intelligent tools, but it isn't any good at anything apparently.

The Silo crowd claims Modo has too many functions people will never use, Maya and LW types claim modo is lacking in tools.

Depending on particular bias, both sides have an excuse why Modo isn't any good.

You claim Silo's has the best workflow ever imagined by human minds, but Modo's sucks, even though Modo is 100% configurable. I can have as much or as little on screen, reprogram every last single function to pie menus, combine menus and commands as needed, and do it in a matter of seconds.

I use Maya and LW both, and yet this horrid workflow you claim Modo has, has managed to save me countless hours of hassle that would have been spent trudging through Maya's bloated workflow, or LW's aging and cumbersome workflow.

I get the same comment from other Modo users as well. They work faster and more efficient with Modo than they did before. It would seem that either Modo users are liars, or you are wrong.

Personally I'll vote for the latter. And I am still waiting to hear why Silo users are so obsessed with Modo, or why I see so many threads in Silo forums asking for tools like Modo has. It just doesn't make sense.

[DanSilverman]

Madmax,

Do you see Thomas' smiley in the post you are replying too? I believe that Thomas was replying to jscott about spanking us (Thomas and I) if we said "one more word". I replied to jscott by saying, "one more word" and Thomas replied by stating, "Pah, he started it and I was right all the way, nevertheless." The result was we got spanked :D .

[Balusilustalu]

I think Thomas Mahler and Dan Silverman need their own little thread where they can argue and annoy each other to their heart's content. Perhaps that'll prevent healthy threads from cascading in to the average CGTrash pissing contest.
Guys.. please... agree to disagree, pick your tool and leave it at that. You two are driving me nuts.. :argh:

[swampthing]

Just as a non interested third party, i would say that there are 2 people that seem VERY pro silo and hit about every thread they can with a question like should i buy modo, or anything even remotely like that.

You are almost ALWAYS guaranteed to see these 2 people and coincidentally both of them have green orcish avatars. Defense of your chosen app/religion only goes so far before it gets tiresome, it's gotten to the point that whenever i see either avatar I just gloss right over what those people are saying as it's just silly sometimes how much "fanboy"ism that's getting displayed.

Thomas your tone is VERY argumentative and somewhat slyly insulting, things like:

"As for the primitive interface: Silo is obviously not meant for you. Silo is meant for people who just want to create"

Are veiled insults at people, your trying to insinuate because people don't like silo's barren interface that they are somehow not artists. Silo is meant for people who want to create? What is maya, max, xsi, modo, lightwave etc meant for? People who don't want to create?

And then:

"Nevertheless, for organic modeling, Silo is so much better than Modo, it's not even funny."

This statement is funny. Why is silo better? I don't see it. Modo has all the same tools minus the topology brush. I mean what exactly do you need in a box modeller other than cut, bevel and extrude for organics anyhow? Everything past thta is just a bonus. Nothing you say is a fact, it's all your personal opinion on an app.

I like silo but there's something about the stark barren interface i can't get past. I feel sometimes cramped because It feels like i don't have total control over the app and i just have a couple basic tools. I know it has a nice toolset but that's irrelevant compared to how i feel when using it. It most definately is an awesome little app for the price but it's workflow just does NOT fit some people and that doesn't make them any less of an arist or a creator or whatever other malarky you want to try and say. It's all about personal preference. Silo and modo both have things the other don't, it really comes down to y our personal tastes and your budget. Anyone that says one is better than the other, is just flat out missing the entire point of their being more than one 3d app on the market.

[Rod Seffen]

Lol, these threads are always funny.
People buy a new app and all of a sudden they become overnight evangelists, trying to convince everyone and their dog that it's the best thing ever invented and no artist can function properly without it.
I'm guilty of it as well, I've been pimping Lightwave modeler on various forums for years.
Anyway, I'll be sticking with Lightwave, I'm 'at one' with it after 4 years, I don't have to think about the tools or hotkeys and I never have to take my eyes or thoughts off the model.
Besides, whatever happened to customer loyality? If you support a football team who are doing badly, do you just quit and start supporting another team who are currently doing well?
Yes, LW modeler has been stagnating for a while, but I'm certain that 9 will have a lot of badly needed features.

[ThomasMahler]

It's all about personal preference.

I think that's a good statement to end this discussion.

Sorry, I got carried away again - For me, Modo just doesn't cut it, workflow wise. Silo also still has tons of stuff that could be improved, but it's a lightweight with a very streamlined toolset, thus resulting in a very fast workflow. I explained a little how I'm working inside of Silo over here (it also explains what I meant when I was saying "...gives you the freedom to create): http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=237675&page=2&pp=15&highlight=silo

As you see, I totally canned the defaults of it - And that's what makes Silo so beautiful. It's not the typical modeler you know, it's more of a "platform" and you customize the hell out of it, so it totally fits your workflow.

I do hope that this didn't sound too "Silo rocks, Modo stinks", since this is definitely _not_ the case. Both programs could still need tons of improvements, they're "good enough", sure, but, in my opinion, a modeler should be as lightweight as possible, so you don't have to actually think about features and stuff while modeling. Silo has the advantage that it's really extremely customizable, finally beeing able to customize all the mouse buttons, for example, is a blessing. This feature alone will speed up your workflow like wild. In Modo, the first thing that's bothering me when opening the application is that I can't even configure the Mouse controls for viewport navigation. There's the Maya scheme and the Lightwave Scheme, but what if I don't like these schemes? Customizability is _key_, if you want to create a modeler that could virtually fit everyones workflow.

I hope this explained my statements a little better and brings light into the "why I'm actually more on the Silo side than on the Modo side" thing - Of course, it's the artist who delivers the work, not the tool, but the tool should fit my personal preference like a glove. I want to free my mind and think about forms while modeling. I don't want to think about anything else. I want the program to support me and not the other way around - So, let's all calm down again, step away from the "you're a fanboy!" track and discuss the "why" and "how it should be".

[MadMax]

Besides, whatever happened to customer loyality?


Whatever happened to product support?

LW STILL has bugs from version 6.0. I hav eheard the "we'll fix it next build" through 6.0, 6.5, 7.0, 7.5, 7.5c, 8.0, 8.1, 8.2, 8.21, 8.3.... and still many of the same bugs that people have been complaining about for more than 3 years still exist.

Newtek pushed people to BUY NOW on 8.0, claiming it was going to be released "real soon now", only to find that real soon now meant a whole year later, and we find the biggest thing is a bunch of plugins a lot of us already owned and paid for from other developers, were now included.

And Newtek has a very bad track record for maintaining said bolt ons they acquire.


If you support a football team who are doing badly, do you just quit and start supporting another team who are currently doing well?


There is a ridiculous example.

How about this... you buy a car, and it works, but has issues, You pay for a repair that takes tehm a year to provide after you pay for it, and it still has the problems you paid to fix. Eventually you are going to say enough and buy a new car.

I had Amiga for years, eventually enough was enough, we knew it wasn't every going to progress and we knew when it was time to move on.

Product loyalty when it ends up costing you unecesarily is ridiculous.

I tried Modo, I liked it, and today I am producing work much faster and easier than I could have in LW. If they had kept up their end of our relationship, I wouldn't have looked elsewhere. But for the last few years it has just been one excuse after another why they can't seem to keep up with the market when every other company out there can.


Yes, LW modeler has been stagnating for a while, but I'm certain that 9 will have a lot of badly needed features.

Probably more plugins I already paid for..........

[StephanD]

Thomas,you should try Modo. http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

I'm serious.You really need to give it a whirl and try it inside out.Stop following "7 digital sculptors out of 10" 's advices and follow your own.What about the opinions of the 3 others that seems content and against the grain?(however accurate that is )

Who knows what you may think tomorrow.

[fez]

But for the last few years it has just been one excuse after another why they can't seem to keep up with the market when every other company out there can.

Newtek's entire development team abandoned Newtek. That is tough to recover from, but they have managed to get back on their feet. The new team is fixing bugs at a frenetic pace now.

The delay on the release of 8 was ridiculous but necessary. My impression is that it was a miscalulculation, not calculated trickery.

The 8.xxx line of Lightwave has come a long way since the initial woeful release. 8.3 is by far the fastest and most stable version of Lightwave I have worked with (except maybe 5.6). It is the first release that I don't get HUB crashes in. The HUB in 7.5 was a joke.

As for the "product loyalty." This is business. If a better solution presents itself that is economically viable, why limit your tools? At the moment Modo offers much that Modeler does not, but who knows what Siggraph will bring?

[ThomasMahler]

I already gave Modo 2 chances, I really did. I read the 500 pages pdf (or so) that comes with it and started to model - but it just didn't feel right. I tried to find a flow, but it was more of a fight with the application than anything else. There were so many things I didn't like, I felt like the software is dictating me how I have to work.

Nowadays, I'm using Silo for boxmodeling jobs and Maya (+ tons of scripts and BPTs), if I have to use deformers, test blendShapes and stuff like that. It's not a really seamless workflow, but what the heck, it works well for me. Also, I'm now actually using ZBrush for most organic stuff and try to only use traditional modelers for retopologizing, edge flow stuff, etc.

ZBrush is a great example, btw - While modeling, I'm using maybe 5 tools and I don't have to raise my hand at all while modeling. It's sculpting workflow just works extremely well, I've got most of the tools I could ask for, I'm fast and it just feels right. Very fluent and painless workflow.

It's just about feeling and workflow - personal preference. For me, Modo is slow and has quite some workflow issues that make modeling a pain in the ass.

[Rod Seffen]

So some you you have seen the light. I'm happy for you, but there's no need to shine it in everyone's face.
Can I hear a 'hallelujah'?

[panadar]

Hi, I just bought lightwave and looking at modo as an additional modeler, to gain Edges and easier macro tools etc, Seems to me to two packages complement each other fairly well and the price is certainly right until july 30th.

What I don´t understand is why you can´t just take your dongle and put it in your laptop when you want to use it with Lightwave? You can even sync the config files or just keep them at a portable hard drive, if you map the drive to the same letter or network address at both machine you even keep the recent file list, content directory and just everything just as it was.

Or am I missing something, I was under the impression this was one of the big advantages with an LW licence, that you can carry it around? If you have the old style dongle, that it´s a technical problem, I think you can get it switched with a USB key that´ll fit.

My 2 c.

I realize that you can carry a dongle around with you. I've even done that several times. There are times where I travel extensively. However, that does have some risks to it. If the dongle is lost, then the replacement cost is is either most or all of what it would cost to just buy a modelling program in addition to other issues that I'm no longer willing to put up with. The risks has gotten to higher than I feel comfortable with. Having either another copy of Lightwave (very expensive for just modelling purposes) or having a modelling program gets rid of that issue.

[skritter]

I tried Modo, I liked it, and today I am producing work much faster and easier than I could have in LW. If they had kept up their end of our relationship, I wouldn't have looked elsewhere. But for the last few years it has just been one excuse after another why they can't seem to keep up with the market when every other company out there can.



One could quote a line from a realy old (1960ish) TV quiz type show a say...

"Would the REAL Lightwave please stand up!"

Is 'Lightwave' in the name, ..or is it in the people, who spent there blood sweat and tears into developing the application we have all grown to love. - But, when the heart of a creation moves on (for whatever reason), to relise a greater vision of the original. Then is the original still the original... or is, the new the original, all grown up.

[bobakabob]

IMO 3D artists have never had it so good. The market is flooded with great programs that allow you to model anything you can imagine. The downside is that you'd think the R&D of Newtek, Luxology and Avid etc would be strained to the limit, yet they all seem in good shape.

Much of this 'App X is better than app Y' flame war stuff is tribal, like rooting for a band or a football team... just personal preference.

As a LW user, Modelling in LW8 + has been a joy of late because it's so stable. That also goes for Layout, compared to previous releases.

I've tried the Modo demo and really liked the display and the flexibility of the interface. Looking forward to seeing how it evolves.

[StephanD]

So some you you have seen the light. I'm happy for you, but there's no need to shine it in everyone's face.
Can I hear a 'hallelujah'?

You fail to see one thing.

Most if not all Modo'ers are experienced softwares users and have other applications they use as often such as LW itself,XSI,Max,Maya...I personally don't"stick to one".

Plus,correct me if wrong because I'm not such a religious person but wasn't it the apostles that traveled to foreign regions to spread their beliefs onto others? ;)

[c-g]

Newtek's entire development team abandoned Newtek.

Don't be an ass. Half the dev team was let go, the rest decided to move on to better things.

Key points:



Your posting=ass
Luxology=better things

[panadar]

When I started this thread, I had some questions about Modo, and Modo compared to Silo. I wanted to see why I should look at paying the extra money for Modo. I asked several questions about what Modo could do. Therefore, you can get an idea of what those requirements are. Right now, all of my modelling is being done in Lightwave. I like modeling in Lightwave a lot. However, I have a requirement to model while I travel w/o transfering my dongle each time I travel, or purchasing another copy of Lightwave. The best way to say this is that I really need a modeling program that has the same, or least similiar (modelling) features that I already have in Lightwave. Since I model using splines and spline-patching, along with some Sub-d after I've spline-patched my model, then it should follow that my non-Lightwave modeling application should have that same feature set.

Therefore, after reviewing MY requirements, I have decided that since I do mostly spline based modeling w/some sub-d,(60/40) then I should be looking more at Modo since Silo doesn't do spline based modeling. If I did Sub-d modeling more often, then I would look more at Silo. Even though in the future, I will do more organic things, I really need to that the modeling app I'm using will handle technical things like buildings, spaceships, cars, and other things that would be sci-fi related w/o killing myself to get it to do that. I do think that Silo could handle a lot of those tasks! I'm not saying that it can't. But, I need to be able to model using splines, numerically, as well as Sub-d. Silo seems to be restricted to only Sub-d work. If that was most of my modeling style, again, I would choose that. But, I need a tool that is more flexible than that.

Again, I thank all of you that answered my questions. However, I want tot point that my questions were never intended to start a flame war. Those participants know who they were. Please understand that in the future, if a person has a question, please try to answer it w/o putting down another application. Try to be more objective in answering the question. BOTH, and I do mean mean BOTH of these apps, are good apps. From the reviews I've read, there are reasons why a person would want tot buy either app. I respect those reasons. In the end, I wanted to see what app would be best for me in a objective way. I will still try the evaluation versions of both Modo and Silo. But, I'm leaning much more in the Modo direction. I would at least like to say that I've tried both. However, as a one man shop, I don't have room for too many apps.<G>

[c-g]

ZBrush is a great example, btw

Not really. Results in ZBrush are fantastic. The workflow sucks. If you could get a regular modeler to work like zbrush or zbrush to work like you are dealing with a model it would be great. None of this drop the model then save a tool instead of the model... The workflow just plain sucks.

[MadMax]

So some you you have seen the light. I'm happy for you, but there's no need to shine it in everyone's face.
Can I hear a 'hallelujah'?

I find it really interesting that providing information based on practical experience, or reasons why a user switched from one app to another, or questions like "should I buy Modo?" gets the kind of snotty, arrogant, replies like yours.

Save your weak atempts at being clever, no one is impressed.

[fez]

Don't be an ass. Half the dev team was let go, the rest decided to move on to better things.

Key points:


Your posting=ass
Luxology=better things


Professional post. If you want to get personal just PM me.

I suppose you are an insider?

*** Oh, and as I said before, Newtek's entire development team did abandon Newtek. I don't know whether it was out of protest or to move on to "better things," because I am certainly not an insider, but they did leave Newtek (ie. Newtek was forced to start from scratch). Any perceived political pretext to "abandoned" can probably be better attributed to paranoia.

[lovisx]

the thing that has always been the problem with me with modo is the price. I can look past my inability to understand it's workflow but the price is a bit hard to forget. I don't find they are really developing anything new for the price they are charging that benefits the artist.

For example, obviously the ability to program modo makes it worth more then 600 dollars, but personally I don't know how to program much, and most artists don't... I guess.

Modo has great morphing tools but usually when you have a modeling package you're going to end up bringing it into another package that does morph targets, I don't feel that morph targets make it worth the price, nor the deformers because you get those in practically any animation package.

So you have macro tools which is really powerful... but I won't pay 400 dollars more then other packages just to get macro tools.

I don't consider it's uv tools worth the price either because I can do uvs for free.

Modo's price and tools are obviously more geared toward the production pipeline. The scripting and blendshapes are ment to help in the pipeline, and so you can change the way you work in it and the way it works to better fit the productions needs. And in this sense modo is better for companies, and well worth the price

But what I can't understand is artists who use modo outside of a production pipeline saying that Modo is the best. Outside of a pipeline its a clone of every other package, and just as cutomizable as every other package. And don't say that it isn't becuase all of you have stated that every package does practically the same thing. And all of you are arguing that modo does well what every other package does well. i'm a penny pincher and I try to find the most bang for my buck, and I can do much more bang with 600 then I can do with modo's 600 bucks.

all my complaints hopefully will be silenced at Siggraph when they reveal they're new improved, developed Modo that all the faithfull users have paid for.... with vantastic new tools that speed up topology editing, and not the same old edge loop split, extrude, bevel, tools. Come on guys, if I as an artist am going to pay 600 I want to draw my topology like in Silo. I want better UV tools. I want usuable sculpting tools. I shouldn't have to write plug-ins just to have the program work right. I want tools that are new and original that really speed stuff up... On another note, I remember Brad saying that they would have a new version of modo for freelance artists. Perhaps this as well will silence me.

And just to calm the Higher then thou fools who are going to be puking down my throat for expressing my opinion. Meh to you. Mine is constructive criticism, and I'm sure if Brad reads this he will take it to heart.

[Sequent]

Since the Lightwave dev team was mentioned...

Have none of you guys gone to www.luxology.com and peeked at the about Luxology section? Under Founders and also under Senior Engineers I think you'll find them all there more or less.

Anyway... I am also a Lightwave user looking into Modo and Silo, which is how I wound up looking into this thread.

[MadMax]

You say "the same old loop slice" etc. and then list a variety of tools. That's fine. You don't see the toolset as valuable.

LW consists of 2 programs, for 1600.00. That's 800.00 for LW's Modeler, and 800.00 for Layout. Of course if you want to be more competitive based on the market..... Alias Motion Builder is 1000.00 it's "comparable" at least to Layout in what it does, so laets even go so far as to say Layout is 1,000.0 worth of that 1600.00 pricetag, and Modeler is 600.00.

So we are comparing a 600.00 Modo vs. a 600.00 LW Modeler. At that comparison, I'd still rather have Modo. Why? because for me, being an artist only interested in creating, Modo's toolset provide the means to do the same work faster, more efficiently and cleaner. Models that would require brute force celan up in LW, I can do with extreme ease in Modo. To most users, that means a lot. You do not want to have to fight with an application to get it to work. I helped a guy over at the Luxology forums who just wasn't getting why the set workplane to selection was useful. When he saw how it could help, he had the same sense of relief I did. Replace brute force that requires soemtimes hours of tweaking, with simple, intelligent tools that let you get it done faster.

So when we look at Modo now for 299.00, there is hardly a comparison. 299.00 for Modo vs. LW's 600.00 Modeler?

Having been a LW user since it first came out, I can assure you, I don't just change just because something new comes along.

and of course in answering the original psoters question, I like the fact it is easy to take modo along without fear of losing a dongle in the process. Brad has even clearly stated that you can install Modo on as many machiens as you own, just please use only one at a time.

I have Modo on my desktop, I have it on my laptop. On my laptop, I have just the 4 view and no tool bars. All the tools are in Pie menus to give me the most desktop space to work in that I can get.

You use LW also right? did you buy FPrime? A lot of people did, and paid 295.00 for a program that only renders. No rigging, nothing, but renders. vertibevel is almost a necessity for serious modelers in LW, it costs 155.00 to add on.

Now the interesting part here, we know that Luxology is going to show an upgrade of some sort at Siggraph. Funny thing is I know for a fact there will be people after Siggraph moaning about how they wished they had purchased Modo when they had the chance, or they will complain that Luxology should have told them in advance so they could make an informed decision.............

And for those here spewing nonsense about religion, and seeing the light, I use LW, Modo and Maya. TOGETHER. It's not religion, it's a new tool that works.

Personally I think you spend far too much time being concerned and angry over prices to the extent you can't see the forrest for the trees.

[ThomasMahler]

Not really. Results in ZBrush are fantastic. The workflow sucks. If you could get a regular modeler to work like zbrush or zbrush to work like you are dealing with a model it would be great. None of this drop the model then save a tool instead of the model... The workflow just plain sucks.

Sorry, but:

lol

[KBOC]

Brad has even clearly stated that you can install Modo on as many machiens as you own, just please use only one at a time.

Thankfully, this is becoming more and more common for developers to express this as an allowance.

[DanSilverman]

I have not been a Lightwave user at all, but instead use 3D Studio MAX. I purchased Modo at just under $700. Am I upset at the price? No way! I have been more productive and I work more quickly than ever before. This means more work work gets done which means I earn more. This means that Modo paid for itself with the first project and is now earning me money. :)

[c-g]

I suppose you are an insider?

No, are you since you seem to know that Newtek was crapping gold and rainbows and the developers foolishly left? It isn't like there could be anything remotly negative on Newtek's side.

That IS the way your post comes across with your used of abandon. That is usually what the LW trolls say when they try to slam Luxology. You just sound like one of the pantsless minions.

[lovisx]

for sure, I agree totally. Axis planes are extremely useful and necesary. But the point I'm making is that I can buy a program like Silo and Body Paint for the price of Modo. So you know I can not only model the same stuff I can in Modo but I can go one step further now and paint it as well. Or I can get XSI and model in wings and render stuff in XSI.

and you make another good point. Obviously modo is good because you get all the best tools all in one package.

My point again though is that for some artists, you know, you can get a good modeler, ie Silo and a package that renders or you can texture with, all the for the price of modo. (if you're not a lightwave user of course) So you know modeling something super fast like you guys are supposedly getting, means less if after I'm done modeling something reasonable fast I can then texture it nicely or render it nicely.

And of course my opinion is subject to change upon Siggraph arriving.

But your point that I should buy now because at siggraph modo will be that much better, I don't agree with. And it kind of goes along with my point. Right now Modo is at a price where advanced tools like they might introduce at siggraph are expected. So after siggraph if they put their price up again, then I'll be making the same arguments all over again. The price is now 800 for 800 I can do more then just buying a modeler.

when you say modo is 300 are you saying that's for everyone, because I understand you can by it for that but if you have a lightwave license. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Mike RB]

It's tough to compare silo to modo. Yes, modo is meant to be a pipeline tool. In fact, that was most peoples biggest gripes about LW in general was that it "didn't play nice with others". So Lux went out of thier way to try and give us LWModeler+. A LWModeler that still kept everything good from old Modeler, but moved into the 21st century as far as being extensible. You can look at it as Maya was to poweranimator, and XSI is to Softimage3D, Lux Modeler is to LWmodeler. So for LW users its a no-brainer. And anyone who wished they could model in LW and bring stuff into maya can now do so and have it be a much less painful experience. It's much harder to do the comparison against somthing like silo or wings. Who's toolset is geared towards organic sub-d modeling. Modo can do those things fine, *maybe* not as well or as slick. But if you then have to model a dumptruck, spaceship, machinegun, car, giant mech... Or any of those hard body things LW was always so good at, well, no problem, all the tools and falloffs are there, ready to go. They also managed to scrape off all the LW quirks that bugged people so much that they wouldn't even give it a try... they added manipulator handles and gizmos you can drag, a "psuedo history" called the tool pipe a rotatable workplane, snapping..... Stuff that, once they realized LW didn't have any of those features, scared the heck out of Max users when they tried LW. And the way they got rid of those quirks made the software even better, the workplane stuff,and the toolpipe are awesome. This feels like what LW6 SHOULD have been (and maybe would have been given different circumstances between Newtek and Stuart/Allen/Brad).

So, while modo probably does lose when put up against silo in the workflow department when modeling head's out of boxes. I think that that bit of workflow loss is gained in strides if you need a tool that will be more flexible when it comes to extensibility/pipeline...

I can't wait to see what Lux has to show at Sig.

Mike

[fez]

No, are you since you seem to know that Newtek was crapping gold and rainbows and the developers foolishly left? It isn't like there could be anything remotly negative on Newtek's side.

That IS the way your post comes across with your used of abandon. That is usually what the LW trolls say when they try to slam Luxology. You just sound like one of the pantsless minions.

You divined all that from my use of the word "abandon"? Wow man, you've got the gift. Your posts are paranoid and unprofessional. Since you seem to have trouble reading, along with reading between the lines, I'll simply quote my last post, which states clearly that I am not an insider:

Oh, and as I said before, Newtek's entire development team did abandon Newtek. I don't know whether it was out of protest or to move on to "better things," because I am certainly not an insider, but they did leave Newtek (ie. Newtek was forced to start from scratch). Any perceived political pretext to "abandoned" can probably be better attributed to paranoia.


Here is a quote from the same post from a supposed "LW troll":


As for the "product loyalty." This is business. If a better solution presents itself that is economically viable, why limit your tools? At the moment Modo offers much that Modeler does not, but who knows what Siggraph will bring?

[webhead]

Yippie-Ki-Yay, let's join the fanboy ride!



But as someone already mentioned, I also think that Modo is more suited if you're going for hard surface modeling. The tools are just geared towards that way and the workflow of the program just forces you to work very, very precise at times.

Nevertheless, for organic modeling, Silo is so much better than Modo, it's not even funny. The tools are geared towards workflow, you can totally customize every command, so it suits your specific needs, you can totally remap every mouse and keyboard button and the tools just work like a charm. They give you tools that just work and you're modeling - it's as easy as that.

Maybe it was me, but I tried Silo and found it annoying to move around in while modeling.
I just found Lightwave much easier to work with.
I'm confused about something here. How can people say Modo is better than Lightwave's modeller and yet say Modo is lousy for organic modeling? Lightwave seems pretty capable of doing organic modeling. It's no ZBrush, but what is? These organic models look mighty fine to me.
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=170939&page=5&pp=15

[MadMax]

I am glad you have noticed this. The fact is, Modo is extremely well suited for organic modeling and quite smooth to work in, contrary to the floods of comments by people who have never used the program.




Maybe it was me, but I tried Silo and found it annoying to move around in while modeling.
I just found Lightwave much easier to work with.
I'm confused about something here. How can people say Modo is better than Lightwave's modeller and yet say Modo is lousy for organic modeling? Lightwave seems pretty capable of doing organic modeling. It's no ZBrush, but what is? These organic models look mighty fine to me.
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=170939&page=5&pp=15

[jscott]

and quite smooth to work in, contrary to the floods of comments by people who have never used the program.
I have to agree. I started using Silo before Modo was available. Once I got Modo I said "hmm this program has a lot of great features, everything is not complely obvious but logical and there looks to be lots to know..." I looked down at my desk and said. " I shall model this simple pen and in doing so learn the basics of Modo." After a few hours modeling and checking out the User Guide I was plenty comfortable with Modo. It's feature set is broad enought that I still learn about new features and such.

-jscott

[pnoland]

I had a similar experience when I first bought modo a while back. At first I was kind of stumped with the interface coming from another modeling app...which will remain nameless cause I'm sick of seeing the arguments...but after click around for an hour or two I was comfortable. I looked at my cell phone and just got cracking. Granted I use Modo mainly for my non organic work but you can easily work on characters or what ever you want in Modo. It's a great application, there's absolutely no doubt about that.

[Beamtracer]

How can people say Modo is better than Lightwave's modeller and yet say Modo is lousy for organic modeling? Lightwave seems pretty capable of doing organic modeling.

modo is brilliant for organic modeling. You get the functionality you always had with Lightwave, but you get more.

modo is Lightwave modeler on steroids!!!

There was nothing really wrong with Lightwave modeler. However, after using modo for a short while it's so much faster.

For example.... With Lightwave, using the Bandsaw tool is a little bit like slicing an edge in modo. However, with modo's edges, you can go slicing around corners or whatever direction you want, instead of the straight line loop that Lightwave's Bandsaw does.

For Lightwave users, modo is the obvious progression to the next generation. It's like the rewrite that LW Modeler always needed.

Is that modo discount to LW users still going? I know it finishes some time before Siggraph, and then there'll be a price rise. I paid much more for modo some months ago. Now is the best time for LW users to get modo if the discount is still running.

[fez]

300 dollars seems like such a steal, but is this "the hook"? Anyone have any theories as to upcoming upgrades? Are we going to have to pay for a modeler upgrade along with the price of a new rendering module? You think Lux will run a Modo Modeler/Renderer Siggraph Bundle?

Or should I stop anguishing and just buy the damn thing?

Argh. I am lovin' Lightwave lately, but I really need a faster, more memory efficient renderer. If someone in the know tells me I will be able to load and render Lightwave scenes, I'll buy it today (or first thing next week). Worth a shot, anyway...:)

[MadMax]

300 dollars seems like such a steal, but is this "the hook"? Anyone have any theories as to upcoming upgrades?

A renderer much like FPrime appears to be a certainty. Fprime for LW is 295.00 drawing some logical guesses, Luxology showed this rendering technology a ful year ago at Siggraph. Odds are it was pretty complete back then. We also do not know what they had under wraps that may not have been in a state that was viable enough to be shown.

If we go by the current buzzwords in the industry right now, I would not be surprised to see sub pixel displacement, or brush tools for modeling.

An animation/rigging package would be nice, but I wouldn't even hazzard a guess if they are that far along or not.


Are we going to have to pay for a modeler upgrade along with the price of a new rendering module? You think Lux will run a Modo Modeler/Renderer Siggraph Bundle?



Based on things I have heard and read, I highly doubt you'll regret buying Modo now. But obviously only Luxology knows what they will do about upgrade costs or other such issues.
I personally feel comfortable that they will not sell it to you for 299.00 then turn around a week later and say 500.00 upgrade.......


Or should I stop anguishing and just buy the damn thing?

I would. I paid 500.00 for mine and don't regret it a bit. I'm going to buy 2 more seats at least before this is over.

[panadar]

Hey guys. I finally took the decision. As soon as my credit card switches to a new billing cycle. I'm switching. The more I try out the demo, the more I like Modo. I really can't believe the objects I'm modeling and the speed with which I'm modeling them. I can't wait to try out the human head modeling video tutorial!

Even though I've tried Silo, and I actually liked it a lot,(to the point where I recommended it to some friends of mine) I noticed that it didn't allow me to model an object using splines/spline-patching. That was one of my requirements for purchasing a modeling program.

Now, I'm concentrating all of my spare time learning this program. I will start posting models for comments as soon as I model something that's not in a tutorial.

[StephanD]

Yet another killer deal...

modo for $299 – available to Maya®, XSI, and Houdini users through July 31, 2005.




Get it now!


Edit: Posted on the Cgnews.

[coffeefery]

Reading this thread is like watching "Saving Private Ryan" - lots of frontline battles :D Learnt many stuff from people's experiences though...

Again, for those who haven't tried, just download the demos and give it a spin. At least go through the tutorials or watch the videos and then try them out for a few days before giving out a verdict. If you like it and feels that it's more productive than your current app, go for it. If it doesn't suit you, then stick with current app. I'm sure as time goes by, they will all get better as more competition from other software pressures them to be better. Everyone has their preference, and so each one of our testimonies will differ. What matters is your own.

[bobakabob]

Everyone has their preference, and so each one of our testimonies will differ. What matters is your own.

Absolutely. What can you model in Modo you can't in Modeller? They're both great apps. It's like arguing icecream is better than jelly.

[MadMax]

Absolutely. What can you model in Modo you can't in Modeller? They're both great apps. It's like arguing icecream is better than jelly.


Yes but do you want ot go tto the freezer and just get your ice cream, or do you want to have to put in the extra work to MAKE your ice cream before you can eat it?

[bobakabob]

Yes but do you want ot go tto the freezer and just get your ice cream, or do you want to have to put in the extra work to MAKE your ice cream before you can eat it?

He he. Hmmm, where does the jelly come in? I'd say that question was more analogous to Poser vs Modo (or Lightwave :))

[Sbowling]

Yippie-Ki-Yay, let's join the fanboy ride!

As for the primitive interface: Silo is obviously not meant for you. Silo is meant for people who just want to create - The interface is more than you could ever ask for (and in the end, most modelers will turn off the interface of the software nevertheless, to gain more space to view your models), the toolset is far from limited, it's just streamlined. Many tools have been laid together, so you will work faster. For example, extrude _is_ extrude for EVERY component and there are just not, like you see this in Modo, 10 tools that are essentially doing the same thing.

I love when people tell me what I need. You seem to be getting modo and lightwave confused. LightWave is the program that has a dozen tools that do essentially the same thing, Mod I can use the same hotkey to bevel an edge, polygon or point and I use the same hot key to remove (collapse) an edge, vertice or polygon. You might want to make sure you know what you are talking about before making statements like this.

[mlmiller1983]

I just orderd Modo a couple minutes ago and took advantage of their Lightwave special. After using their 30 day trial version I was hooked. Couldn't pass up a deal like this. Also took advantage of the Cinema 4D 9 XL Bundle special for Lightwave users as well.

[MadMax]

welcome to the club!

I accidentally went into LW the other day and was astounded how clunky it looked and felt after using Modo exclusively for the last couple of months. I was going into Layout to render something from Modo, and I accidentally double clicked on the wrong icon.

It was like wading through a tar pit.

[mlmiller1983]

welcome to the club!

I accidentally went into LW the other day and was astounded how clunky it looked and felt after using Modo exclusively for the last couple of months. I was going into Layout to render something from Modo, and I accidentally double clicked on the wrong icon.

It was like wading through a tar pit.


Once you try modo you don't ever want to go back to LW modeler!

[Steve McRae]

Once you try modo you don't ever want to go back to LW modeler!

THAT is for sure - there is no comparision

[panadar]

I just orderd Modo a couple minutes ago and took advantage of their Lightwave special. After using their 30 day trial version I was hooked. Couldn't pass up a deal like this. Also took advantage of the Cinema 4D 9 XL Bundle special for Lightwave users as well.

Have decided to buy Modo! I really do like Modo. And I want to take advantage of the Lightwave special. Once I get the hang of Spline Modeling & Spline patching in Modo, then I'll be satisfied completely, and therefore use only Modo for ALL of my 3d modeling tasks. But everything else that I've tried has been pretty intuitive or somewhat easy to pick up. Overall, Modo ROCKS!!! I plan on purchasing Softimage later so that I'll use it along with Lightwave(which I'll never give up) in my production studio. But, the neat thing is that no matter which animation program I use, I'll only ever use one modeling program---Modo!

Question before I buy. This may seem like a stupid question, so please forgive me in advance. Would be interested in knowing the difference between buying Modo Full or download. Thanks in advance guys. All of you who have answered my questions have really been helpful!

[Dion Burgoyne]

Download only will save you on the shipping costs, but there will be no paper manual nor disk. Basically if you live overseas and/or want to save on shipping.

[Mike RB]

They are exactly the same other than with the full version you pay a shipping fee and possibly duty if not in the USA. What they ship you is a DVD of modo 1.02/a paper manual that has the same content as thier online docs/and a box with "Good Choice" on the back of it. One nice thing is that they list the value of the DVD as 5$ USD, so duty is pretty reasonable (I'm in Canada).

Mike

[mlmiller1983]

I plan on purchasing Softimage later so that I'll use it along with Lightwave(which I'll never give up) in my production studio. But, the neat thing is that no matter which animation program I use, I'll only ever use one modeling program---Modo

I am never going to give up LW modeler but LW is still a good program and will still find a use for it alongside Cinema 4D and modo.

[StephanD]

I am never going to give up LW and will still find a use for it alongside Cinema 4D and modo.


I think it was rather intended to say that they won't go back to 'Modeler'...A lot of Modo users still render in Layout....But I'm positive this is about to change soon.

[Qexit]

They are exactly the same other than with the full version you pay a shipping fee and possibly duty if not in the USA. What they ship you is a DVD of modo 1.02/a paper manual that has the same content as thier online docs/and a box with "Good Choice" on the back of it. One nice thing is that they list the value of the DVD as 5$ USD, so duty is pretty reasonable (I'm in Canada).

Mike
The shipping fee is pretty high if you are outside the US. I just went through the order procedure to find out what it would be. To get it to me here in the UK would cost $67.89 (UPS Worldwide Expedited) or $71.45 (UPS Worldwide Express). I would also have to add on a further 17.5% for VAT (Value Added Tax) based on the declared value + shipping cost and a further handling charge from UPS of either 10UKPounds or 20UKPounds (I forget which, it's a while since I got something sent via UPS). So getting a full copy sent to the UK could add on an extra 40-50% or thereabouts to the cost. The download version is looking like a much better deal all of the time :)

[mlmiller1983]

I think it was rather intended to say that they won't go back to 'Modeler'...A lot of Modo users still render in Layout....But I'm positive this is about to change soon.

yes I did.

[Steve McRae]

while a box is nice to look at on the shelf - I would just go with the download

[Qexit]

while a box is nice to look at on the shelf - I would just go with the downloadHaving an actual product in your hands also simplifies the option of reselling it should you decide that it isn't the one for you after a few weeks/months. Assuming Modo licenses are transferrable, (if not, why not ?) then it would be easier to sell a proper boxed disk with hardcopy printed manual than a CD-R with a couple of sheets of paper containing the license authorisation details. This is something I always take into consideration when I buy software. :)

[DMack]

I am 99% sure that licenses are NOT transferable.

[Phil Lawson]

Yup, the licence is not transferable.

[mlmiller1983]

Just got modo in the mail today. Oh happy day:bounce:

[panadar]

I just purchased Modo! I figured since I own Lightwave, it would be absolutely brain-dead to let the special pass. While I still would like to get the hang of a few things in Modo, like spline-modeling and spline-patching, the demo for Modo really worked for me. I'm working on the face tutorial I downloaded off of their website. WOW! I really like it! I can't wait to get my stuff in the mail. Since I live in the USA, shipping was very cheap. Less than $7.00. But, at any rate, I'm lookign to the day when I can do all of my modelling in Modo! I feel like I've joined a great group of people!!

[DMack]

Welcome aboard and what a great time (and price!) to join. Lots of exciting tings about to happen (2nd)!!

[MadMax]

You are right, you would have felt like a brain dead idiot if you had passed it up :)

Check the forums at Luxology. A couple of hints got dropped regarding new features. Can't wait until Tuesday to find out whats going on!!

[nvvm]

Thanks for this thread I picked up Modo (despite the negative posts by certain zealots) whose post's actually were more convincing to buy modo than anything. I weighted the 2 and decided that I would give modo a shot. At some point in the future I may consider silo but at this point in time silo is "just another modeler" to me. I actually tried it out long ago but it wasn't so stable then, so I tried it again and came to the conclusion I simply can't get into silo. I understand that despite this silo is a great tool, just not the tool for me. I think these silo zealots need to realize when you going around shouting how one app is better than the other, your killing your creditibility and probably doing the app more harm than good.

First off if your doing a review of each tool for someone you have to post meaningful info into it instead of "silo just rocks" " I tried modo but it's work flow is just so slow in comparision to silo" and all the rest of the silliness that's being spewed. How can one take your word for it if you clearly show bias ? Bias prevents you from giving any app a fair shake when using the demo and etc. And this gives readers no reason at all to trust your words and ignore your comments. Now if you come with some in-depth info and comparisions on different types of workflow that exist within the 2 and you preference of one over the other that's great and very helpful, your giving people something to identitfy with. But you guys are doing nothing but creating unneccessary tension between apps by giving no meaningful info, how can readers believe that silo is this great tool if I go and snoop in the silo forum and see "what modo feature could silo use" type threads ? With these same zealots no less ? This pushes credibility out the window and leaves it to the user to try yet again another 30 day demo, which is tedious when your;

A. Constantly seeking to improve your skills on your current toolset
b. Having to try out dozen of demo's for different tools you are trying to assess.
c. Have real work to do
d. Have a Family

See their are some of us who are simply looking to suppliment our toolset or even replace a tool outright and we have to be sure about what we pick. And seeing some immature posts by owners of a tool I am currently evaluating makes me think, "How's the community in general ? Are they all like this ?" Nothing increases the value of a tool like a nice, mature and helpful community. Lastly to those who feel silo is the best thing ever and can't help but denounce everything else, I say maybe it is, but don't you think the tool can speak better for itself than you ?

[MadMax]

I have to agree with your comments about religious zealots. I think the funniest reply in this thread, and most ignorant was this one:

As for the primitive interface: Silo is obviously not meant for you. Silo is meant for people who just want to create

Made even more hysterical by the fact that I have been an artist all my life, and almost 100% of what I do, work and hobby, is to create things. Of course the troll just assumed that if I didn't like Silo, I couldn't possibly be a real artist.

Odds are I will probably NEVER give silo a second chance because of the attitudes of the users.

And I agree with you that it's funny if you go to the Silo forums, there are tons of threads asking "what features can we streal from Modo." Seems the Silo users are pretty obsessed with Modo.

It's going to be real funny to hear the whining they will be doing after Tuesday.



Thanks for this thread I picked up Modo (despite the negative posts by certain zealots) whose post's actually were more convincing to buy modo than anything. I weighted the 2 and decided that I would give modo a shot. At some point in the future I may consider silo but at this point in time silo is "just another modeler" to me. I actually tried it out long ago but it wasn't so stable then, so I tried it again and came to the conclusion I simply can't get into silo. I understand that despite this silo is a great tool, just not the tool for me. I think these silo zealots need to realize when you going around shouting how one app is better than the other, your killing your creditibility and probably doing the app more harm than good.

First off if your doing a review of each tool for someone you have to post meaningful info into it instead of "silo just rocks" " I tried modo but it's work flow is just so slow in comparision to silo" and all the rest of the silliness that's being spewed. How can one take your word for it if you clearly show bias ? Bias prevents you from giving any app a fair shake when using the demo and etc. And this gives readers no reason at all to trust your words and ignore your comments. Now if you come with some in-depth info and comparisions on different types of workflow that exist within the 2 and you preference of one over the other that's great and very helpful, your giving people something to identitfy with. But you guys are doing nothing but creating unneccessary tension between apps by giving no meaningful info, how can readers believe that silo is this great tool if I go and snoop in the silo forum and see "what modo feature could silo use" type threads ? With these same zealots no less ? This pushes credibility out the window and leaves it to the user to try yet again another 30 day demo, which is tedious when your;

A. Constantly seeking to improve your skills on your current toolset
b. Having to try out dozen of demo's for different tools you are trying to assess.
c. Have real work to do
d. Have a Family

See their are some of us who are simply looking to suppliment our toolset or even replace a tool outright and we have to be sure about what we pick. And seeing some immature posts by owners of a tool I am currently evaluating makes me think, "How's the community in general ? Are they all like this ?" Nothing increases the value of a tool like a nice, mature and helpful community. Lastly to those who feel silo is the best thing ever and can't help but denounce everything else, I say maybe it is, but don't you think the tool can speak better for itself than you ?

[js33]

My money is on Lux because I don't think Silo will have a renderer or an animation module or any modules for that matter. I need a complete tool.

Cheers,
JS

[StephanD]

And I agree with you that it's funny if you go to the Silo forums, there are tons of threads asking "what features can we steal from Modo."

What's even funnier is that the opposite doesn't happen...hmm :)

[mlmiller1983]

You are right, you would have felt like a brain dead idiot if you had passed it up :)

Check the forums at Luxology. A couple of hints got dropped regarding new features. Can't wait until Tuesday to find out whats going on!!

Buying a $895 modeling program for $290. :deal: Yep seems like a no brainer to me.

[Gwot]

As a Modo user AND a Silo user (as well as others) the only thing I dislike about app comparisons is when people flat out disregard or ignore the good things that make any app stand out above others. The only time I make any comparison usually is when I would like to see certain features implemented that would make life easier AFTER having used them myself. I've done this in the Silo forums, Modo forums, XSI, LW, and any other app I've used. And I will always post images or movies to illustrate or back up a point if needed. Experience is key here. I hate fanboy-ism and zealots more than anything. Put up or shut up I say. Most of the noise you read in those types of threads would be better off in the "shut up" category.

It's not about which app is better for me. It's about acknowledging that no app is perfect and there's always room for improvement. I paid for this stuff. As a user I have a right to request improvements. Getting slammed for asking for that or making relevant comparisons sucks. Which is why I don't visit the Newtek forums at all anymore.

Incidentally, since a poster above seems to be very misinformed about the Silo community - to clarify, Modo threads or "insert app here" threads are very much supported and encouraged by the devs and forum members alike because they are OPEN MINDED and open to suggestions for improvement. Ignoring the competition is suicide in this market. Threads like that are a good thing. This is just one of the many reasons why Silo has been gaining a larger user base over the last year.

There have also been several requests for Silo features being added to Modo in the lux forums if you care to search back. I've made a few myself. Some of us have been using both apps since they shipped so initial feature request threads might have fallen off the radar. Point is that they ARE there. Modo is far from perfect, but it does meet most of my modeling needs and that is why I continue to use it, and will continue to ask for improvements.

[StephanD]

You misinterpreted what I said.

MadMax said there are 'tons' of Modo-like requests,that's not the case on this board.

I personally think there's nothing wrong with favoring a software over another.

[Gwot]

Of course there's nothing wrong with favoring software. We all do it - otherwise we'd never get any work done. =]

I don't view this board as the appropriate place for my feature requests. Not for Silo, nor Modo. That is why I refered to the Lux and Nevercenter forums, as that seemed to be what was being discussed. Others may prefer to use this board for that stuff, and Brad and co definitely read them here. It's just not my preference, nor the place where my previous requests or others can be found.

[c-g]

Thanks for this thread I picked up Modo (despite the negative posts by certain zealots) whose post's actually were more convincing to buy modo than anything.

Hahahahahaha

how can readers believe that silo is this great tool if I go and snoop in the silo forum and see "what modo feature could silo use" type threads ? With these same zealots no less?

Oops, better not stick your head in the Lightwave forum here. One of the moderators felt he needed to start a bunch of self improvement threads, my favorite was what features should LW steal.

"How's the community in general ? Are they all like this ?" Nothing increases the value of a tool like a nice, mature and helpful community.

CGtalk isn't the best place to go for community unless you stay in the general discussion section. The app specific areas tend to break down into bickering and moderator grandstanding at times. There are some helpful people here but there are a lot more on Luxology's forum. I'm sure there is a better community on Nerve Center's own forums as well for the Silo crowd.

[c-g]

My money is on Lux because I don't think Silo will have a renderer or an animation module or any modules for that matter. I need a complete tool.

Cheers,
JS

If Silo can't render now they have been previewing the ability on the coming soon section of thier website.

[Sil3]

Just to say that Luxology has a new customer :applause::buttrock::applause:

Although im still waiting for my permanent License Key (already contacted Lux by email about it since it doesnt appear on the download page)

[Gwot]

Welcome Sil3! =]
I'm sure you'll not regret the decision. Modo just fits so well with so many apps already. Between compatibility with my LW work, messiah, and the latest point oven update with XSI/LWO support, I'm a pretty happy camper with it these days.

[Mike RB]

Welcome! And I agree with everyone here, you find a little less of the "what's best" chatter on the Lux forums. And Sil3, here is the unmirror/domirror script you were interested in:

http://www.elementvfx.com/Scripts/DeleteMirrorSymFix_MB.zip

Mike

[Sil3]

Thanks guys :)

Gwot:

I already configured Modo to "mimic" my XSI and LW shortcuts (i have a mix of the two) :scream:

Although i love XSI i still prefer to model with workflows that resemble more LW (too many years with LW i guess).

Mike:

Already got your script up and running, thanks m8 :thumbsup:

[MadMax]

Thanks guys :)

Gwot:

I already configured Modo to "mimic" my XSI and LW shortcuts (i have a mix of the two) :scream:

Although i love XSI i still prefer to model with workflows that resemble more LW (too many years with LW i guess).

Mike:

Already got your script up and running, thanks m8 :thumbsup:


FY: I opted not to do the mimic thing with the interface and just ran with it Modo default style at first.

Glad I did. There was a temptation to use the LW configuration, and after having used modeler again recently for the first time in a couple of months, I am glad I went Modo default initially.

I would have stuck myself with LW's aging workflow.

[Sil3]

FY: I opted not to do the mimic thing with the interface and just ran with it Modo default style at first.

Glad I did. There was a temptation to use the LW configuration, and after having used modeler again recently for the first time in a couple of months, I am glad I went Modo default initially.

I would have stuck myself with LW's aging workflow.

I did that when i switched to XSI, i wanted to learn XSI like it was, but after using only one package for a long time i got used to that package, when i got back to LW i needed to change it´s shortcuts to mimic XSI, since XSI is now my main tool i dont want to think about shortcuts, i want to model/animate whatever.

That´s the reason i now use XSI shortcuts in all my 3d software, i already have too many things to worry and think about, dont need/want shortcuts as another "confusion" in my head :D

[Gwot]

Me too. It's well worth the initial learning time up front to come to grips with Modo's UI. I recommend this for any app in fact. It's better to just lose yourself in the new environment for a few days and absorb as much as you can. You'll spend less time fighting the app in the end and learn what separates it from the rest, rather than wasting time wondering why it isn't LW - or any other modeler.

[Sil3]

Me too. It's well worth the initial learning time up front to come to grips with Modo's UI. I recommend this for any app in fact. It's better to just lose yourself in the new environment for a few days and absorb as much as you can. You'll spend less time fighting the app in the end and learn what separates it from the rest, rather than wasting time wondering why it isn't LW - or any other modeler.

Sure, but Modo is really LW sweet modeling workflow with some of the tools i already have and am used to in XSI (edges, ngons, select edge loops etc etc), so configuring those shortcuts to mimic what im used is right now the best for me :)

[Mike RB]

I use the modo default setup. I figure it will be less of a learning curve when they finish the rest of the app. :)

Mike

[StephanD]

Same here,Modo default(not layout though) and not one customized shortcut.

Learned XSI that way and since they come back throughout the different parts of the software it did pay.

I expect the same consistency from the upcoming Luxology modules.

[Qexit]

Well, I bought into the Modo/LW price deal on Saturday night. After seeing the announcements for LW9 that have just been posted all over the place, I really do hope Luxology have a lot of nice cats to let out of their bag tomorrow :thumbsup:

[StephanD]

I really do hope Luxology have a lot of nice cats to let out of their bag tomorrow

I would prefer a cat-eating dog. :)

[nvvm]

Oops, better not stick your head in the Lightwave forum here. One of the moderators felt he needed to start a bunch of self improvement threads, my favorite was what features should LW steal.The lightwave "stealing" threads are based off how newtek could update lightwave which was falling behind and was in need of a good update. Not Lightwave is better than Cinema4d yet I wish newtek would implement clothilde, bodypaint and sketch and tool. It was about app development. Try keeping it in context next time ;)

I hang out on many forums and I've seen the same trouble starter(s) here and at nevercenter, be that they are a bit more tamed there. I have little doubt a serious question about anything would cause bickering.

[c-g]

The lightwave "stealing" threads are based off how newtek could update lightwave which was falling behind and was in need of a good update. Not Lightwave is better than Cinema4d yet I wish newtek would implement clothilde, bodypaint and sketch and tool. It was about app development. Try keeping it in context next time ;)


So who died and made this person despot? There is a difference between development discussions and sending a message that the only way to better the application is by stealing features then turning around and closing threads because someone else might have something negative to say. That was about forum politics and that was in context. Newtek has a forums and they could have a feature request section...oh, wait, they do. This is just some boob feeling the need to help in a way that isn't controled by the developers.

[panadar]

Thanks for this thread I picked up Modo (despite the negative posts by certain zealots) whose post's actually were more convincing to buy modo than anything. I weighted the 2 and decided that I would give modo a shot. At some point in the future I may consider silo but at this point in time silo is "just another modeler" to me. I actually tried it out long ago but it wasn't so stable then, so I tried it again and came to the conclusion I simply can't get into silo. I understand that despite this silo is a great tool, just not the tool for me. I think these silo zealots need to realize when you going around shouting how one app is better than the other, your killing your creditibility and probably doing the app more harm than good.

First off if your doing a review of each tool for someone you have to post meaningful info into it instead of "silo just rocks" " I tried modo but it's work flow is just so slow in comparision to silo" and all the rest of the silliness that's being spewed. How can one take your word for it if you clearly show bias ? Bias prevents you from giving any app a fair shake when using the demo and etc. And this gives readers no reason at all to trust your words and ignore your comments. Now if you come with some in-depth info and comparisions on different types of workflow that exist within the 2 and you preference of one over the other that's great and very helpful, your giving people something to identitfy with. But you guys are doing nothing but creating unneccessary tension between apps by giving no meaningful info, how can readers believe that silo is this great tool if I go and snoop in the silo forum and see "what modo feature could silo use" type threads ? With these same zealots no less ? This pushes credibility out the window and leaves it to the user to try yet again another 30 day demo, which is tedious when your;

A. Constantly seeking to improve your skills on your current toolset
b. Having to try out dozen of demo's for different tools you are trying to assess.
c. Have real work to do
d. Have a Family

See their are some of us who are simply looking to suppliment our toolset or even replace a tool outright and we have to be sure about what we pick. And seeing some immature posts by owners of a tool I am currently evaluating makes me think, "How's the community in general ? Are they all like this ?" Nothing increases the value of a tool like a nice, mature and helpful community. Lastly to those who feel silo is the best thing ever and can't help but denounce everything else, I say maybe it is, but don't you think the tool can speak better for itself than you ?


I second that opinion with these words. I wanted to say two things: One, I want thank everyone who has participated in this thread discussion. I never dreamed when I started it that it would be so popular. I know that I have learned a lot from reading your posts here on this thread. Between the answer to my questions, as well as my trying out Modo, I'm happy to announce that Luxology has just notified that they've processed my order and sent it out yesterday. As a result, I'm waiting with baited breath to receive my copy of Modo in the mail. I'm very glad to officially join this wonderful community and will look forward to posting pics of my spaceships for comment in the future.

That being said, this leads me to the second thing that I wanted to say. At some point in time, this discussion got quite heated for a little bit. I was definately a little annoyed. From some of the other posts, I wasn't the only one who got more than alittle annoyed with some people whose posts were in the least 'negative'. "You know who you were!" I think that it is very possible to objectively "critique" a particular software without "criticizing" it. There is no perfect software!! If there was, everybody would try to buy it. Every software is going to have some feature that the other doesn't.

I have several friends who use 3d tools that I don't use and vice versa. We are constantly asking each other about our software of choice. In addition we all share 3d techniques with each other. All of our discussions have been positive. As a result, we have learned a lot from each other. Not only about 3d techniques in general, but about our own software of choice as well as each others software of choice. I have a very healthy respect for Lightwave, 3d Studio Max, Maya, Softimage, and Truespace. (Please don't don't get mad if I didn't mention your software of choice. I only mentioned the ones I've personally seen and played around with.) This experience has led me to advise prospective buyers of 3d software based on their personal tastes, artistic style, and what tool I think will help them accomplish their goals in the best way for them. This advice has not always resulted in my recommending to people the tools I use. As this thread has become quite popular, I would really like this thread to be a positive thread with objective and contructive "critiques", not destructive "criticizing". I don't want to see another "dispute". You know who you were, and you have been warned! Please keep the comments constructive, or to yourself! I know that there will be others who come and visit this thread and I want them to get a positive experience as I'm sure many of us have already. This thread overall has really been a good one. And I hope that it will help others as it has helped me.

[mlmiller1983]

I've already preorderd Modo 201 from SafeHarbor. Should be very good!!

[c-g]

I've already preorderd Modo 201 from SafeHarbor. Should be very good!!

Safeharbor..why not from Luxology?

[CGTalk Moderation]

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.