Compositing in 3D Space

[hiphopcr]

I believe that Shake 4.0's 3D space is more like the 2.5D space of AE (2D layers in 3D space). I also believe that Nuke has 3D space and I'm sure that Fusion 5 has actual 3D space for 3D objects.

As for tutorials, I'm not sure, but I expect that eyeon will have plenty of info regarding compositing in 3D space when Fusion 5 launches.

[Yossarian!]

If anyone has seen the behind the scenes interview with ILM's Digital Compositor Todd Vaziri on the Van Helsing extras, he shows screen shots where he's navigating a perspective scene with postcards assembled at various angles that make up his composite shot. The perspective view is not from a 3D package from what I understand. A colleague told me the software he was using was either CompTime or Commotion. If anyone can just shed some light, I'd appreciate it.

Hi Cipher,

It's my understanding that Todd was using plain old After Effects to do the Van Helsing shot (if we're talking about the burning windmill scene, that is). Obviously a heck of a lot of work and talent went into the shot, but I think the gist of the shots were arranging 2D plates in 3D space within After Effects.

http://www.ilmfan.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1809&sid=0fe026376276f69e0b15737158efa02d (Todd talks here about the scene)

http://www.smorgasboard.com/pages/van_helsing.html (I think this may be broken)

Don't know of any tutorials, sorry.

[Hugh]

I believe that Shake 4.0's 3D space is more like the 2.5D space of AE (2D layers in 3D space). I also believe that Nuke has 3D space and I'm sure that Fusion 5 has actual 3D space for 3D objects.

As for tutorials, I'm not sure, but I expect that eyeon will have plenty of info regarding compositing in 3D space when Fusion 5 launches.

That is correct - it is just planes in 3D. That said, in Shake 4, you will be able to write plugins that do 3D stuff using OpenGL, so you'll be able to do your own funky stuff in 3D...

[VFX Follower]

The Van Helsing videos showing the 3d comp. with the 2d cards is done in After Effects. After Effects is known as 2.5d. You can create 3d camera moves utilizing 2d shapes/layers. Most if not all of the compositing packages are this way, including combustion and shake. However, you can import rendered 3d elements along with 3d camera data. These packages do offer true 3d camera moves and lighting. The only true 3d compositing packages available are Discreet's(Autodesk Media and Entertainment) Flint/Flame/Inferno and the new Toxik. Some of the things that separate the "little guy's" from the "Hero" compositing packages is the real-time hardware interactivity, keying, color-correcting, 3d particle systems, and the price. Also, I believe that Nuke and Digital Fussion supports real 3d objects as well. Digital Fussion, Nuke, and Shake are the mid-range compositing suites. Now, After Effects and Combustion are still powerful compositing packages. Their strengths just vary from one to the other. If you had to choose the best one from the low to mid-range, I would choose Shake, hands down. It is the most powerful for the money. But they all can do relatively the same kind of composites. Shake is just more production friendly than the others. To be honest, the others are production friendly as well, it's all relative to how your production pipeline is setup.

I know this is alot of information to digest, just remember that if you are generating alot of 3d elements that are going to be rendered and placed into a composite, you are in fact working with 2d elements. The things that sell a composite as 3d is the fact that you are utilizing a 3d track from either a live-action plate that was shot or camera data exported from a 3d package. When it comes down to it, most composites are all utilizing 2d elements in one form or another. Even though some of those elements are derived from 3d packages doesn't make a difference. It's the techniques used to assemble the final composite that sells it as real 3d space.

I will post some resource links for you to check out as soon as I re-locate them. I hope this helps you.

JB...

[CipherFX]

Yossarian, thanks for the link with Vaziri's input; so indeed it was AE he was using, just arranging 2D planes in 3D space. Hugh, should be neat to see people customizing the newest version of Shake with plug-ins.

VFX Follower, thanks for your explanation. My thinking was along the same lines, I just wasn't sure if there was something I was missing. I comprehend that we're manipulating items in 2D space even if they came from a 3D package, I just wasn't sure if I was missing some "magic element" when people refered to 3D compositing. If you find those resources that you mentioned, I'd be very happy to read up on it. Thanks again.

[Kai01W]

The flint/flame/inferno 3D capabilities are those:
2d Layers in 3d space.
"Freeform" distortion of those flat images in 3d space ((ext.) bicubics).
3d displacement of the images (with the various channels as input source.
3d camera (incl. 3d tracker).
3d particle system.
3d projector that projects an image through the space on various objects
3d lights and shading (NO 3d shadows though!)
3d objects (via import) (with texture coordinates)
3d Lattice for deformation.

I guess thats it. This is quite something. Though sometimes I'd still like to have the shadows of combustion.

Since it is all done in hardware sometimes there are zDepth issues...

-k

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