Goin for a while.

[AdamT]

just to let you know that I will be graduating to morrow

Congratulations! And thanks for all the help/tips on R8, too.

[Per-Anders]

Congrats... damn this is too hard... i want all of those things real bad, especially the modelling stuff, c4d needs that... but then especially the texturing stuff too... the rendering can wait for the mo... gee... i don't know which button to press... damn it, you're making me make decisions agains't my will grrrr.

[kiwi]

Well done Kai :thumbsup: ...congrats.


Most definitely cheers for all the help on the boards and through email :thumbsup:



I wanna vote for all the options as well....cant we be really greedy and have it all :argh:



Stu.

[AdamT]

I voted for ngons/modeling. I'm thinking that if they implement ngons, booleans will improve as a result--even though booleans are listed under nurbs.

[MJV]

Congratulations Kai and good luck in your future endeavors.

:applause:

[visualsee]

I haven't been around these forums for long, but I will say that you have been very helpful! Enjoy yourself and good luck!

[Srek]

Hi Kai,
many thanks for all the effort you put into this.
Hope to see you again soon.

Best wishes
Björn

[michaeli]

Congratulations!:beer:

Thanks for your helpful tips, hope to read the new ones soon.

[michaeli]

Originally posted by Kaiskai
.........and such due to differences in the EB from the final release. ......

Does this mean the C4D program of EB version now is different from that of the final version of R8?

[Srek]

Hi,
yes there have been some changes from 8.001 on.
In this case mostly the Timeline will be affected, we included some helpfull changes to speed up workflow some more :thumbsup:
This update will be available in a short while.

Regards
Srek

[LucentDreams]

unless your doing a lot of animation already you won't really notice the difference. The other nice ting is a few bug fixes. But even most of those you'd have to notice the bug first.

[ThirdEye]

All this areas should be changed and improved. I hope 8.1, 8.2 and 8.3 can!

[derwolpertinger]

CONGRATS KAI!!:applause: and good luck in the future!

btw. thx for all the help...:D

[JoelOtron]

In my opinion, the hdri stuff is only neccasary for a small fraction of the user base--even though a lot of us seem to focus a lot on it.

The texture tree stuff would be nice too, but still not a neccesity IMO--I can usually get my textures just how I want after a bit of work.

I think the heart of a 3d program is the modeller. The more control and ease you have to build the models you need, the better. Some of us still use Rhino and formZ to model, and then do the rest in C4d, because theres just some things you can do faster and better in those apps. (at least with v7.3)

That leaves n-gons and nurbs. Adam had a point--
implement n-gons, and other problems will go away. But, I think I would like to see more development in the direction of nurbs--subdivision surfaces and nurbs import/export.

I think the edge/point/surface weight addition in R8 will improve nurbs modelling --but still waiting for Mr. FedEx guy to deliver R8 before I can determine this myself :)
(looks at watch and taps feet)

[3dg]

and just for fun a little poll on what maxon should focus on upgrading next.

Of course I want it all, but I think before a major update takes place again, Maxon needs to focus on improving BodyPaint. It's a great app that's ALMOST where it needs to be. Some very minor but important enhancements would make it such a great tool that the need to jump back into photoshop would be removed.

(cursor/brush preview while painting, REAL lasso selection and editing on a layer instead of entire layer editing, how about a UV Relax comand to flatten out UV polygons making it easier to paint?)

Gary

[LucentDreams]

need for photoshop will never cease, may nont need it nearly as much, but it will never cease to be needed. As for bodypaint, weell thats a module now, and modules are seperate from Cinema 4D updates I believe, so this is just a concern for what should be upgraded in R8 not in the modules. Of course some of these things could be part of mdusles or become their own modules, I mean they could make an advanced nurbs module I guess, but would make more sense to include int the main app, the rendering stuff would likely be updated in Advanced renderer, especially since similar features are only available in the advanced renderer anyways. A shader tree would almost make sense to have as a module as well.

[Desdinova]

After looking at the poll and having spent some time in MAX again. We need the N-gons and more poly and nurbs tools. The shader tree would be nice, but it is out weighed by the need for better/more tools. While all the items would be nice to have. The focus has to be on the modeling tools... Just my 2 bits

Spaz.....

[Per-Anders]

another though on this all... i posted this a postforum... but i want to make sure that someone from maxon sees this (and others that don't frequent postforum too)

having just been playing around with the demo of sketch up... maxon need to update their modelling tools... i suggest a quick way which would allow for the update of bodypaint to also be dealt with is for them to go and buy sketchup and totally integrate it into c4d, cos basically that would rock, the combination of c4d's current tools and sketchup would make it the best poly modelling program on the market bar none, and that includes mirai. plus it would totally benefit sketchup for all the tools and functionality that it's missing right now to have c4d's toolset.

actually on second thoughts it would need a little more than that to make it the market leader.

the speed of sketchup mustn't be compromised so it probably wouldn't work within the framework (yes i am goading). but certainly maxon should take a good long look at sketchup for it's poly editing/building workflow (not for it's camera control). then if c4d were to integrate in something simular to z-spheres (maybe a metapoly blend system) for ultra fast organic modelling, and add in the instant deformers of lightwave (modeller, bend, rotate, twist, and move tools, all are instant for poly modelling, and have very powerful influence/falloff controls, they can use things like vertex maps to control influence, materials/textures can be mapped to the vertex map for stuff like procedural landscapes... i.e. make a highly subdivided plane, change the influence of the move tool to a texture vertex map, and simply move in the y direction for realtime landscape deformation)... hell if maxon want someone to guide their polymodelling improvements (which are going to have to happen some time or other) then call me!

and back to sketchup... go and buy them maxon... do it now!!!!!

(and no whingeing about lack of funds or politics, you know it makes sense).

[Erik Heyninck]

Good luck, Kai, and lots of thanks for all your time, info, explaining, kindling the fire etc etc...
'till soon I hope.

[michaeli]

Originally posted by mdme_sadie
.....having just been playing around with the demo of sketch up...

What is "sketch up", is that a modelling software?

[derwolpertinger]

yes it is-have a look here: http://www.sketchup.com :)

[JoelOtron]

Holy Cow-- What a cool program!

While we're on the subject of alternate modelling packages for use in C4d, any cheap yet efficient and fast nurbs modellers out there for Mac? I Hear Rhino can't be beat, but believe its PC only.

[ndat]

Hey cool, good luck Kai, change is always fun :) unless it’s the bad kind of change. I remember something about you becoming a teacher?

[Erik Heyninck]

Wow, you're right. This is what should be added to Cinema. Simply incredible.

[flingster]

Kaiskai
Well done on graduating and all the best in the future....Please make time to visit if/when possible.

I think Shave should be included in the next c4d release....goes with the theme...first sla then pyrocluster...then Shave....nice...more bang for my buck.....then atmosphix module which would sky, winds, gales, waves, rains, fire, tsunami, lighting....yeah yeah....i know we can do most of that already...but integration ya know......so come on Maxon....gimme gimme atmosphix.....hell you can even keep the name....rock the boat boyz n gurlz...:buttrock:

[ThirdEye]

priorities IMHO (without mentioning bodypaint 3D):

1) n-gons with (a lot of) meshtools + layered subdee (even resolution independent a-la Maya)

2) NURBS support

3) Refraction channel and more controls over refraction and reflaction falloff

4) HDRI and SSS

5) new animation features

6) some decent plugin for procedural ocean, sky...

[That Adrian Guy]

You're goin temporarily?


P-p--p-ppp----promise mm..mmmeee you'll nnnnever let g-g-ggg-go!

See ya around Kaiskai!

[Martin Kay]

I'll go for the Modeling 2 option with the ability to position a centre of rotation. Next- a good nurbs modeling module. Its all very well being able to model outside c4d, but if you can't import the stuff its pretty useless and has stopped others from using c4d or current users looking elsewhere for a proper integrated solution. (max). :hmm: Am trying out max 5 at moment, but its such a mess compared to c4d.

[Per-Anders]

That's true actually... and in fact it seems more logical to me for nurbs modelling to be a module, it would have to contain some very powerful tools to make it a viable option against Rhino or Maya's Nurbs, but all in all as a module that makes the most sense. The polytool modelling stuff though should probably be integrated directly into the program (although then again, i just want those things to be there soon... so i don't mind if they're done as a module for the moment, and then integrated at the next point release.

[ThirdEye]

Another really useful thing we don't have at the moment is the layered subdee. In Max, Maya, XSI (and maybe LW, I don't know) the subdee cage itself has some sort of handles to pull and press.

[AdamT]

IMHO, smoothing groups should be implemented ASAP. This would go a *long* way towards alleviating Cinema's problems rendering objects made in CAD programs. Maybe this could be accomplished by using a smoothing object instead of a smoothing tag. That way you could use "restrict to selection". Just a thought.

[LucentDreams]

I thought those handles basically controlled weighting, could someone explain these more? I mean LW uses a painted system for weighting, which might be why thirdeye isn't sure about them. Can someone explain what these handle do. My experience with most apps seems to be a least one versin back, and my experience with maya is well minimal.

As for shading, not the perfect solution your looking for adam, but in R8 you can multi select tags as well so you can select all the smoothing tags you wanna change and then in the AM change the settings of all of them at the same time. not perfect I know, but an option none the less.

[flingster]

Kaiskai: That poll is looking very close....any chance we could get them all implemented....then we will all be happy.....except the.. erm...coders..:thumbsup:

But then again "All programmers are playwrights and all computers are lousy actors".......Oooh ok we love programmers who implement all user requests....especially those resulting from web polls!:applause:

[Per-Anders]

the layered subd stuff is basically where you can go in and actually play around with the subd mesh at different levels of subdivisions, while still retaining the original subdivision mesh (so you can animate really quickly). sort of like imagine you put an object in hypernurbs, monkey around with it for a while, then you subdivide the object with hypernurbs subdivide, just one step (that's going down a level) and then you play around with that mesh, then you subdivide it again with hypernurbs subdivide (down another level) to put in even more detail... well, imagine then that you could go all the way back to the original mesh from there, and it would still retain all the changes you made to the specific parts that you subdivided, but you've got this easy to deform outer mesh, and you can still deform that how you want. it's pretty cool.

anyhow i have this other idea (already posted on postforum) but this is what i'd want with ngon support...

along with ngons we need all the tools that make that work properly.

also i believe in getting the whole interface scripted... maybe having nested tools (i've been thinking about this as a workflow method for a while), like you may want for one tool to actually do both inner and normal extrude and bevel, based on a keyboard modifier and/or even better on different handles on the axis in the viewport (think maya bevel on steriods). so you nest all three tools together in the tool attributes and then give them modifier keys, to switch between with the one tool. or maybe you want to go the other way, and split up a tool, so that for instance you have the merge tri's tool, you may want a version of that (when it finally goes non modal) that evaluates the angles on one keystroke, and one that doesn't on another. also each and every one of the parameters of a tool should be able to be mapped to a key and mouse click drag for ease of use... for instance bevel, the user just goes and sets their keyboard shortcuts on that tool, so that they might press shift and when they click drag the inner offset is modified. customiseability is the key here. then full macro/sriptability control, constant output in coffee or whtaever script (like maya outputs mel commands, or max outputs maxscript, or lightwave outputs lscript for every single thing that you do) would make this a breeze.

then there's knifing tools, poly split (maybe like maya where you can just go round and object splitting polys in and out going from face to face, edge to edge, wherever you want, till you're done). poly merge. bandsaw, spinpolys/edges, ngon hypernurbs, (theres this great plugin for lightwave that allows you to make a messy mesh and it cleans it up and makes a good flow with qauds which although it's not ngons would be good for hypernurbs flow and for working with game engines)... the list goes on, i'm sure more people could think of stuff like this.


i'm really into the idea of having total control over the tools, and being able to group them, and split them apart into presets etc... faster workflow=better workflow.

[AdamT]

As for shading, not the perfect solution your looking for adam, but in R8 you can multi select tags as well so you can select all the smoothing tags you wanna change and then in the AM change the settings of all of them at the same time. That doesn't really help, because you need to have different smoothing levels on the same mesh. Otherwise Cinema causes shading errors on areas that are geometrically flat. Right now, AFAIK, you can only have one functional Phong tag per object.

[michaeli]

Originally posted by mdme_sadie
......then there's knifing tools, poly split (maybe like maya where you can just go round and object splitting polys in and out going from face to face, edge to edge, wherever you want, till you're done). poly merge. bandsaw, spinpolys/edges, ngon hypernurbs, (theres this great plugin for lightwave that allows you to make a messy mesh and it cleans it up and makes a good flow with qauds which although it's not ngons would be good for hypernurbs flow and for working with game engines)... the list goes on, i'm sure more people could think of stuff like this. ....

Hope one day it will come true!:wavey:

[astrofish]

Well, for what it's worth, I'm selling a C4D modelling plugin called 'Spin Poly' which may be of interest. As this is my first proper plugin, I'm interested in comments - good or bad.

Go to:
http://www.astrofish.com/spinPoly.html


Cheers - Steve Baines (Astrofish)

[Per-Anders]

hmm... looks like what i wanted. does it work with v8?

[astrofish]

Yes, it does. I've tested it with 6.3, 7.3, and the 8.0 Early Bird release - it works fine with all of them.

And you're right, my website doesn't mention this anywhere - I'll add it.

[AdamT]

Great plugin, Steve! I just got it and it works as advertized in R8. Yea!!

[Per-Anders]

welll i ordered it about half an hour ago and still nothing in my mail :hmm: hoping that i'll get it soon cos it looks like it's exactly what i wanted.

[Per-Anders]

ok it just came through and it does exactly what it says on the tin... you jaguar users using IE will have to rename the download from fn.cgi to spinpoly.zip (or any name with a .zip postfix) but it works an absolute treat.... just remaped it into my shortcuts :) thanks Steve!

[Per-Anders]

oh and as a nice aside you no longer need the untriangulate for single polys, or triangulate... just select teh two twis and rotate till it's just a single quad... or select a single quad and rotate... instant tris! excellent plug :)

[astrofish]

Glad you like it!

mdme_sadie, you say that the file downloaded correctly, but saved itself under the name 'fn.cgi' when using IE.

I've just done a test download using IE5.0 and it worked correctly, so maybe it's some specific browser setting you're using that caused it?

BTW, what did you mean by Jaguar users? Am I missing something here?

If you've got any more specifics on what happened and what version browser you were using, etc, or if anyone else has had to do this then could you let me know and I'll pass the info onto the people doing the order processing to see what they say.

Ok, renaming a file isn't that hard, but you shouldn't need to, so I'd like to understand what happened.

[bunk]

Just bought it. Very cool!

Thanks Steve,

bunk

[Erik Heyninck]

Jaguar is the newest version of Apple's operating system OSX. This is based on unix and may well need another indication that it's a zip.
Remember how often one has to use right-click on a PC to "save the target as..."?
BTW: count me in! Looks great. Hope it won't be long now before C8EB arrives...

[astrofish]

Hi Erik,
Thanks for the information; being a PC person, I'd not heard of Jaguar.

[Erik Heyninck]

Me, I'm also on PC , but I've always been interested in my neighbour's garden too.
BTW: nice plugin you got there...

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