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Teratron
06-09-2005, 07:45 AM
Hi all,
This is my first post so let me know when im being a noob,

This is a High polly model that will be used for normal maps on a monster for a Doom 3 mod my class and I are working on here in Waco TX, Its made with Max 7 all poly modeled. I think it needs some more detail and what not, to bad I dont have Z brush ah well nothing like the old fashion way (hehe).

Any way some crits whould be greatly apreciated.

Teratron
06-09-2005, 07:47 AM
heres a shot of the back

johnwoo
06-09-2005, 09:45 AM
I like the mechanical areas of the model in regards to bulk and proportion, it's the head I am not sure about?...the head is too round and too plain at present, and he needs hair, scars, cuts...as this type of mutilation surely won't leave this area unscathed...also have you tested out a rig for this creature yet to see how it will all move etc...just a suggestion...good work so far tho'...:thumbsup:

Teratron
06-09-2005, 10:27 AM
Thanks, btw I really admire your work ( I wish I could texture half as well as you)

anyway looks like i need to work on my feminin charachteristics because its suposed to be a girl http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/aarggggghhhh.gif. Interesting idea for the head, though i wanted to experiment with the contrast of a menacing beast with an inocent face (almost like a doll) guess it dosent work that well, hmm ill think of something. As far as the rig stuff goes I figured it would just move like ED -209 from Robocop, I had a charachter doing the reverse leg thing in doom unintentionaly, so I dont think it will be a big problem <-- (famous last wordshttp://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/smile.gif). Will definatly have to test it out though.


Thanks again

kOmoo
06-09-2005, 10:31 AM
I like the face, it's a really cool concept. The mechanical past looks really good.

Teratron
06-09-2005, 10:43 AM
Thanks man !! http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/beerchug.gif

johnwoo
06-09-2005, 12:18 PM
Ah...on the flipside that would be very cool....to portray an innocent face...kinda creepy aswell, almost like SHE :) is still concious...I like it...good plan...also with the influence from ED-209...it's been done...so it is possible...I say....don't hold back...this has got bucket loads of potential....good plans imo...

Johny
06-09-2005, 08:37 PM
very good ! althou i would add some detail in zbrush :D that would make it kick ass !!!

Teratron
06-09-2005, 09:14 PM
Thanks, unfortuantly I dont have acces to Z brush at school, but I think its about time to make the investment for myself.

Teratron
06-11-2005, 08:38 PM
Ok a small update on the low polly, my goal on this is 2500 tris ( is that a little low for Doom 3? Ill have to check) right now Im at 1182 triangles http://cgtalk.com/images/smilies/eek.gif, but I havent edited any of the tris yet this is just poly modeled so far. Of coarse this Is allso the most complicated part of the beast.

ArYeS
06-11-2005, 10:23 PM
Great modelling man, I love it

Hmm, 3000 is a little low poly for doom, dunno make it 5000 or even 8000 for doom3

Teratron
06-11-2005, 10:31 PM
thanks, yeah Im thinking 3000 would be a good goal, though I though I heard the hell knight was like 2500, hmmm.

glynnsmith
06-11-2005, 11:45 PM
Hey dude, this is an awesome idea. I love juggernaught type characters, and yours should look as good as, when finished. I'd hope for more of a Robocop 2 feel than Ed209, but that's only because I think RC2 looks more menacing.

I'm also thinking that it might look cool to make the exposed edges of the machine's casing (around where the girl is) to look busted out from the inside, so the metal looks all sharded and sharp. Just an idea.

Keep going, it's looked rad so far.

G.

Guy In Rubber Suit
06-12-2005, 01:33 AM
That's a fine looking model, though it needs to be more morbid to fit in with DOOM 3, though I imagine the texture map will fix that.

According to the Making of Doom book that I have, the average character is 1800 polys, while boss characters can be up to around 4000 polys. So I guess it would depend on where you put the character. It looks like a large character that could be suited for a boss, or at least be a large enemy that is hard to take down.

Teratron
06-12-2005, 05:55 AM
Thanks guys,

@ glynnsmith - I agree Kane from RC2 is one of my favorite mech designs of all time, I would defiantly prefer that feel, As for the busting out thing, I really like the idea, but I don’t think it would fit the character, the girl was captured and bonded with the machine against her will and the machine has been designed to incorporate flesh into its body. But I would defiantly like to play with the idea; more jagged sharp stuff is always good.

@ Guy In Rubber Suit - Thanks for the info, I think there will be a maximum of 2 on screen at a time, so it sounds like 2 0r 3 K is a safe bet, the mod inset really a unique or revolutionary game experience just to learn the process and display our skills to potential employers. And yeah the textures will defiantly add to the morbid horror feel, though I’m trying to think of something with more contrast then the standard grey type metal.

BTW Shadows Fall is the greatest band ever!! well maybe second to Slayer but only because they’ve been around longer hehe,

glynnsmith
06-13-2005, 05:29 AM
Hey bro.

Another idea came to me with juxtaposing the mechanical aspect of this design against the organic. You're probably already there, but how about having the human [bit of] character textured and lit so she looks pale, and almost serene. I'm thinking the Ghost In The Shell sequence near the start, where it shows the Major's body being constructed.

The machine element could be gnarly, rusted, and malformed. Brutish, intimidating and aggressive.

Anyway, sorry for jumping around your thread with my ideas, but I find the idea of fusing such a thing very interesting. I thought i should be atleast put it out there. You can make up your mind if you want to use it ;)

G.

Teratron
06-13-2005, 05:41 AM
Yeah tottaly! I palned for her face to be very pale white, almost like a porclen doll, and then get progresivly red and disfigured as it aproched the machine.

Cool man semes like we have prety similer ideas, keep em comming!

Tumerboy
06-13-2005, 04:02 PM
I like the design and look of the model so far, but if you dont' mind I do have a bit of a concern.

It may be too late to rework the model, but it's a fairly common, but important mistake, which you will likely find when you go to animate it.

Unless I'm seeing it wrong, it looks like you only have two joints in the leg. The chicken leg is actually not backwards, it's just differently propportioned than a human leg.

You still need a hip, a knee and an ankle in order for this to animate properly. As is it looks like you only have a hip and an ankle.

http://www.tumerboy.com/ChickenLeg.jpg

Hope this helps, nice model, keep up the good work.

Teratron
06-14-2005, 06:57 AM
Interesting, thanks Tumerboy,

Yeah your absolutly right, but my design is kind of based after ED- 209 (whitch actualy has parts of its leg that slide) , or the macross Zentradi scouts (forgot what there called, ya know the 2 leged ball with 2 big guns), or even the AT-ST (though I think that has more joints).

The gif is a quick test of my I idea of how it would work, though the reall one would be much more violent of coarse:twisted:.

Please let me know why this wont work ( I'm not being sarcastic), will it not turn or pivot corectly? , is the underlying principal of it wrong, It seems like it would work.

Thanks again

Infectious
06-14-2005, 02:51 PM
Hey Teratron this is lookin' §weet dude. I can kinda picture how it would look in game and I have high expectations for it and it's coming along very nicely. Great idea to put a pretty face with a doom machine!:thumbsup: Of course it's all gonna come down to the textures, that'll make or break your model. Hopefully tho, you'll pull it off. Just throw a couple blood splatters everywhere and you're set. :) Anyhow...I'm no good at animation yet but I'm really diggin' the way the test animation you did works. It looks cool. Did you post a wireframe of your high poly model? I don't remember seeing one...I'll have to check...if not, post one. I wanna see! This is the first post I saw today and I'm glad it was.

BTW...Shadows Fall does rock...along with Killswitch Engage! :buttrock:

Tumerboy
06-14-2005, 04:11 PM
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to say that you COULDN'T make him move with the current set up, it just won't look natural.

They did a great job with Ed-209, but if you go back and watch, every time he lifts one of his enormous feet, he should fall over. We use our hips to shift weight over each foot as we walk, so that we can pick up the other one, that's a very basic requirement of a good bipedal animation. In ED's case, the did shift somewhat, using the balls of his feet to lean one way and his knees to shift the other way. They also used his waist, and just plain leaned him over a bit each direction. However it's quite subtle in comparison to how much he needed to shift in order to walk properly. He also couldn't move very quickly with his set up, since he sort of shuffled more than walked. They made up for that some with the sliding bit sticking out the back of his ankle.

You can animate him with your current setup, I didn't mean to piss on that, I personally just think that walk cycles and such look way better when you have it set up properly and animated properly.

Sorry I'll shut up now as most people don't care about this anyway, it's just sort of a pet peeve.

Atrocity
06-14-2005, 05:00 PM
Very cool looking monster. I think his claws would look a lot more scary if they were bigger though. THe human/robot feel is very cool, and I must say is quite creepy. Keep up the good work.

Teratron
06-20-2005, 10:18 PM
Ok sorry for the lack of updates (I have like 8 different projects going on right now)


@ Infectious - Ha thanks man, heres the wire you requested, Its not vey efficent but it works for the high poly, since I dont really have to worry about poly count ;). And I agree that the texture i everything, Im not the greatest texture artist ever but Ill give it my best. Expect more animation in the near future.

@ Tumerboy - I cant thank you enough, I had to pull out all the robocop and star wars movies to get some good references, I wasent thinking about the weight distribution, I think by making the hips bendable I can pull it off, I think one of the bigest problems is that they are spread far apart, so they are farther away from the center of ballance hence the more dramatic movement, very interesting stuff. Keep the good crits comming!!

@ Atrocity - Thanks, I'll play with the claws.


Ok I'll folow up with the low poly soon, now I have to go to work at Taco Smell :argh:

Thanks again

Guy In Rubber Suit
06-20-2005, 11:44 PM
I don't know if this is too late or not, but I think one way to help it along in its morbidity is to have some more of its flesh showing, like its intestines mingly with the wires near its gut. And have patches of flesh popping up here and there.

I'm personally a fan of decay and rust and I think that will add to the darkness and overall morbid feel of it. Just some suggestions and it's looking good.

MK2
06-21-2005, 12:18 AM
I like it so far but i also wanna see a bit more "gore". Have you seen that "Virus"-Movie where Robots use humans as parts. Was nice and morbid. Darkside of the Moon was something like that too, if i remember correctly. Use some bones to connect parts or just for cool looking :)

To add something what Tumerboy said:
Most animals have a skeleton that looks like a deformed human-bonesystem. So if you wanna design a belivable creature you can use a humanskel. as base and then modify it. It makes it more scary i think, because it looks like a human or animal but at the same time it is something diffrent and then again it looks right and blah blah... you get the point. Well yeah... maybe thats just my personal-view. But on the otherhand i was never scared by a blue ball.
If you have a human anatomy book get also an animal-anatomy book, sometimes it is inspiring just to look at these pictures :)

Teratron
06-22-2005, 12:33 AM
Ok I think im about done with the low poly, its at 3702 triangels.

@ Guy In Rubber Suit - Thanks, Yeah more gore is always good, I think ima try to have some stuff hanging off the human.

@ MK2 - Cool thanks, ditto what I said to guy, also good idea with the animal thing, will have to keep that im mind.

thanks guys

Wayne Adams
06-22-2005, 03:19 PM
hey teratron, its an awesome model, but there doesn't seem to be a very large jump from high and low poly, they look like there level off evenly in some areas. is this intentional? I know how to create normal maps, but i don't do them a lot, as I'm not to fond of normal mapping, but I'd go backto the high poly and do some more organics, maybe organs hanging out of some of the robotic parts..maybe do some throbbing veins, some muscle tissue bonding some of the mechanics together, i dunno. It's a really cool monster, I'd like to draw something like it and show it to you, if you want, you don't have to use it, but it's a neat concept, kinda like that jamie lee curtis movie VIRUS.

Anyways keep it up, I really wanna see some texture on this guy.

Teratron
06-23-2005, 04:52 AM
Yeah Ide love to see your art. teratron_wrx@hotmail.com (teratron_wrx@hotmail.com)

Ive done some updates to the high poly to try to make beter use of of the normal maps, I'm just not to sure where to put more detail. There is some veins and exposed organs but they kinda get lost in the back, I added some more, will post tomorow when I get back to school.

I'm about 35% done unwraping so textures are comming soon. And I think I finnaly have a decent idea that is not the standard grey metal, Im thinking white mettal with red rust and black burn marks for the base. But please let me know if you have any good ideas, I think texturing is my weakest aria right now (that must change).

thanks

Wayne Adams
06-23-2005, 05:30 AM
hey teratron, white metal, like stainless steel or like something else. Personally I think galvanized steel would look good on him, (no not that crappy max galvanized steel texture LOL) the red dust and burn marks are a good idea. I'll draw something while I sit at work bored, and send it to you. 35% unwrapped, man that thing looks like a handful to unwrap. good luck, i hate unwrapping..lol post a picture of the kinda steel you're talking about.

EDIT: I almost forgot, if you want some ideas on using the normal to its potential then model in battle damage.

Teratron
06-23-2005, 06:46 AM
Hmm, the galvanized steel sounds good, this image is more for the color palet, but its kinda what im going for, (alien futuristic yet dark and morbid) whitch would really lend itself to the traditional gray/black borg scheem whitch really may be the best bet but Ima try for something a little different.

I deffinatly like the idea of battle damage, but Im woried about texture usage, since alot of the uvws will overlap, Ill have to be carefull not to end up with symetrical bullet holes lol.
It would be a good challenge in max to pull off well. Though I wonder if I could make some generic damage and set something up with the decals in doom, that would be sweet but I doubt Il have time.

and yeah this is one of the rougher unwrap jobs Ive had.

Wayne Adams
06-23-2005, 09:11 AM
sounds good, as for the damage, I would just do some dnts in the metal in some places, maybe chamfer a few verts here and there, and the texture, you don't have to a do a half anf half symmetry texture, you could do all the pieces individually (shudders at the thought) or just do the face halved and the torso havled then do a few pieces like the foreams or maybe the chest as one piece with no symetrical texture.

I just noticed your in Waco, TX. I was born and raised in College Station, TX.

EDIT: I forgot I've been doodling out a doom like monster, I'll scan it when i get home and send it to you.

Teratron
06-24-2005, 06:55 AM
@ Wayne Adams - Thanks, Ill e-mail you more

Ok any one know about a good normal maper that will let me have overlapping UVWs to save texture space, I knew from the beginning that max wouldn’t do it (so lame) so I’ve been working my usual way of normaling half then adding symmetry, witch was fine before, but for this particular model I could save allot of space on the arms and legs an such.

Any way these are the current UVW's though ill probly have to change them (sigh)

The Normal maps need allot of work but where they are working the look pretty good IMHO

BTW any One know how to fix the mirror problem with the shading that goes on where the seams meet.

Man this sure has turned into a big pain in the arse (ahem I mean a fun challenge that will make me stronger, hehe:D)

Thanks all

Teratron
06-24-2005, 06:57 AM
and the UVW stuff

Wayne Adams
06-24-2005, 06:58 AM
ouch, yeah that normal got hit pretty hard, but hey it looks like battle damage. LOL
BTW did you get my email?

djkaneda
06-24-2005, 03:55 PM
i'm pretty sure in 3dmax, if you want overlapping uv's you can just move the offending ones outside of the texture area in your uv edit. leaving only the one side still in there. then do your render to texture, then move em back... iv'e been told that's the workaround for it in max.

pearson
06-24-2005, 10:13 PM
Well, I realize I'm a bit late to the party, but I agree that the face could be better integrated into the machine (in a tormented way, of course!). Here are some pics from McFarlane toys that demonstrate a bit of what I had in mind. The face itself can be peaceful (or even a mask, like a china doll), but the attachment to the machine should be more obvious/gruesome/unnatural, I think.

Teratron
07-02-2005, 09:08 AM
Ok updated normals, still have some work to do.

@ djkaneda - Thanks man that works great, I used the offset by trik, works pretty well.

@ pearson - Yeah I think I agree with you thanks for the Images gives me some good I deas though Im starting to run out of time, but I can still do allot with the textues, and I did make a few tweaks.

sorry for the late responce, some other projcets took priority

thanks

Wayne Adams
07-02-2005, 11:44 AM
yeah, less issues with the normals now, i wonder what it'll look like in texture, do you have any color comps or texture concepts besides that white metal you showed off a while back?

qrt
07-02-2005, 10:11 PM
quake style :) . 8\10 pkt. but finish it : do texture.

MrDev
07-03-2005, 03:52 AM
This wouldnt happen to be for Quake II: Lost Marine would it?

Teratron
07-06-2005, 10:33 PM
Ok the normal maps are at an acceptable place i think tell me if you see some problems,

This is a texture concept.

@ Wayne Adams - Thanks, waht do you think of the concept?

@ kurt_hectic_pl - Thanks, will do my best

@ MrDev - Nah, just a class project, (though we keep losing people :sad:)

Wayne Adams
07-06-2005, 11:13 PM
I like the rust, but i think its a little too much rust. it makes the machine part look as if its made out of a browner substance, I would reduce the amount of rust to blotches and the edges. So far tho, its good. I'd just pull back on the rust. Can't wait to see what the guts look like :)

Teratron
07-06-2005, 11:20 PM
aye, Definitely to much, I also want to make it darker.

Por@szek
07-07-2005, 07:45 AM
For me is looking cool. Normal maps make this model veyr detailed and more attractive. Cool concept of it. I think the texture should be shattered metal, with some scrathes, maybe parts of cable ... could be nice industrical.
Keep it on, good job.

Teratron
07-07-2005, 07:51 PM
just a few updates, rendered, rendered w/o normals + self illume, screne grab


@ Por@szek - thanks, will do!

Teratron
07-12-2005, 09:42 PM
just a texture update, I really need some advice on textures as I feel that this is my weakest aria, Im also considering redoing the normals to get rid of that $#&^*@! seam in the middle, though it will be a pain to redo everything.

oh yeah, 1 1024 Color, 1 1024 Spec, and 1 1024 Normal

jOBe
07-12-2005, 10:58 PM
...Im also considering redoing the normals to get rid of that $#&^*@! seam in the middle, though it will be a pain to redo everything.
oh yeah, 1 1024 Color, 1 1024 Spec, and 1 1024 Normal

I feel your pain, i had the same problem recently.
its because you can't, as far as i know, mirror a normalmap on one single mesh.
I had to redo the whole mapping of my spacetaxi as well because of such a seam.

MrDev
07-13-2005, 12:11 AM
im sure you know what you want it to look at but considering you are using d3, i say check out the Quake 4 stuff its honestly what i see your model being in :D

Teratron
07-20-2005, 11:47 PM
Hey look an update!

Ok, new and improved UVW's to fix normal maps.

I think I know what Im going to go with for the basic metal color.

This has the color map, normal map, and specular map.

Pics are from a max render, and doom 3 model veiwer.

I need to figure out how to fix the smoothing groups, I thought Game engines smoothed everything unles the verts were actualy seperated, I dono. Right now it all 1 smoothing group.

Teratron
07-21-2005, 11:39 PM
some more progres

Teratron
07-22-2005, 10:45 PM
Ok some more updates and a few screne shots of the monster in the game, Sorry I dident have our own map that were working on. The textures are almost done, I just have to tweak the specualr a little. The nice thing about normal maps is that I dont have to paint the Light info so I can get away with my 3rd grade texture skills W00T!. Any way tell me waht you think please I need crits to improve my skills.

Also Ill probly make her bigger, And Ive been having problems with the smoothing in doom as it dosent recognise the smothing groups in max, Suposedly I have to fix the tri steping so the triangulations are facing the corect way, but this dosent seem to have much effect. Anyone who knows about this please let me know.

thanks

Dragot
07-22-2005, 10:49 PM
your not going to leave the head white like that are you? what about flesh blood and gore?

Teratron
07-23-2005, 12:48 AM
The original Idea was for an inocent clean face, and I think I like it so It will probly stay the same, (We talk about it at the beging of the thread)

thanks for the input though.

Beastie
08-03-2005, 08:26 PM
The metal parts look great! I agree with the head though, what about just a off-white skin color? Especially in that first shot it almost looks un-textured...

Teratron
08-04-2005, 09:51 PM
Thanks, I think I will put a little more variance in the head, may be some very light blue veins.

Btw heres a pic from one of my animations, (attack2 to be exact :)).

Anyone know a good place to host some animations, not sure what file size will be yet not to big though.


whops, just noticed one of the verts is weigted wrong, (can you find it :D)

Teratron
10-12-2005, 08:05 PM
If anyone is interested this guy is on my demo reel so you can see it in action.


Demo Reel Thread (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=284391)


thanks!

NeOmega
10-13-2005, 11:06 PM
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to say that you COULDN'T make him move with the current set up, it just won't look natural...



...Sorry I'll shut up now as most people don't care about this anyway, it's just sort of a pet peeve.

It is a legitimate point. I never really realized this until about 2 weeks ago when I saw a neat reverse jointed mech, and realized the setup again... Allthough I had observed it before on my cat, I just never put it into practice. Too bad my personal game model is so far in the advanced stage that it would take a complete re-working to make it correct.

But, I'll never make the mistake again, since I prefer reverse jointed mechs.

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